{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":8.4,"body":"Music."},{"startTime":9.119,"endTime":15.519,"body":"This is Belonging, a podcast that explores being alive in the age of loneliness."},{"startTime":16.348,"endTime":23.108,"body":"I'm your host, Becca Piestrelli, a writer, mother, and community tender currently living"},{"startTime":23.108,"endTime":29.158,"body":"on the ancestral lands of the Coast Miwok people in present-day Marin County, California."},{"startTime":30.828,"endTime":36.351,"body":"In this show, we explore topics like rites of passage, cultivating meaningful community,"},{"startTime":37.108,"endTime":41.959,"body":"seasonal and cyclical living, and what it means to be a good ancestor in these times."},{"startTime":43.148,"endTime":49.068,"body":"I have thought-provoking conversations with friends, teachers, elders, and ancestral medicine"},{"startTime":49.359,"endTime":53.626,"body":"keepers to help support you in bringing more meaning and connection to your life."},{"startTime":54.708,"endTime":59.268,"body":"I also pop in here and there to share updates and learnings from my own story, because we"},{"startTime":59.268,"endTime":64.168,"body":"were meant to do this together, cosmically holding hands as we walk the spiral of life."},{"startTime":65.428,"endTime":70.451,"body":"Can expect to be challenged by new or old ideas. Face your beliefs and what"},{"startTime":70.496,"endTime":75.068,"body":"systems informed them. Get curious and brave to tell the truth about the deeper"},{"startTime":75.068,"endTime":79.111,"body":"harder things and feel comforted in the knowing that you don't have to do it."},{"startTime":79.12,"endTime":89.2,"body":"Music."},{"startTime":89.401,"endTime":96.804,"body":"To belonging the podcast. It's Becca Piestrelli coming to you on a fine spring day. The birds"},{"startTime":96.804,"endTime":103.684,"body":"are chirping outside my window. I got outside and walked and I'm just like, wow, this is the"},{"startTime":103.684,"endTime":110.804,"body":"secret to life going on walks. Is this what I should have been doing all these angsty years"},{"startTime":110.804,"endTime":116.884,"body":"is going on walks? The answer is yes, I think. Anyways, I'm feeling great after my walk."},{"startTime":117.02,"endTime":122.804,"body":"I also have been moving through so many sicknesses, I can't tell why. Is it an immune system thing?"},{"startTime":123.547,"endTime":129.204,"body":"Is it having a toddler thing? Is it a waning pandemic thing? We'll never know."},{"startTime":130.289,"endTime":134.564,"body":"But all I have to say is it's a freaking miracle to breathe through my nose."},{"startTime":137.239,"endTime":144.404,"body":"And share this amazing, amazing episode with you. A conversation with someone I have been just like"},{"startTime":144.404,"endTime":146.844,"body":"dying to get nosy with."},{"startTime":146.924,"endTime":151.769,"body":"It's Sarah Wildman, aka Our Common."},{"startTime":151.884,"endTime":157.924,"body":"And Sarah Wildman is a leadership and relationship dynamics coach and community builder"},{"startTime":157.924,"endTime":165.263,"body":"who has literally lived in a real deal, like shared intentional land-based community."},{"startTime":165.416,"endTime":169.724,"body":"And she raised babies in that, and now she's living in suburbia."},{"startTime":169.926,"endTime":175.589,"body":"And she has a lot to share from her experience and what she's really passionate about"},{"startTime":175.864,"endTime":181.953,"body":"is infusing the things she's learned from living in what I would call deep community,"},{"startTime":182.604,"endTime":185.104,"body":"in a way that all of us can access."},{"startTime":185.221,"endTime":190.544,"body":"I think, you know, if you've listened to me for a while, I was like so intent on like buying the land"},{"startTime":190.544,"endTime":192.018,"body":"and building the yurts."},{"startTime":192.224,"endTime":198.304,"body":"And I did buy the land and I may still build the yurts. And I'm also coming into this deeper understanding"},{"startTime":198.304,"endTime":204.027,"body":"of the various ways, a sense of community, deep connection, of re-villaging."},{"startTime":204.918,"endTime":209.008,"body":"Can be accessible to each of us in different ways, in different ways our nervous systems can handle"},{"startTime":209.008,"endTime":216.608,"body":"based on privilege, based on access, based on bio-region, that it's all within our grasp,"},{"startTime":216.756,"endTime":219.008,"body":"no matter where we live in our circumstances."},{"startTime":219.664,"endTime":225.335,"body":"So I just like dive into the nosy bits with Sarah about all of this."},{"startTime":225.731,"endTime":229.408,"body":"I'm like, what is it like to live in an intentional community?"},{"startTime":229.408,"endTime":231.997,"body":"What is it like when religion is involved?"},{"startTime":232.069,"endTime":238.888,"body":"How can community take shape in ways that aren't always from a place of being unintentional community?"},{"startTime":238.888,"endTime":244.456,"body":"She also shares her whole systems approach to relationships, which I think is so key"},{"startTime":244.618,"endTime":249.128,"body":"because conflict is inherent in relationality."},{"startTime":249.173,"endTime":254.377,"body":"And I think so many of us, hand is raised, we're raised to be conflict diverse."},{"startTime":254.827,"endTime":261.128,"body":"We're raised to be harmonizers and caretakers. And I think to rise into a place of community care"},{"startTime":261.452,"endTime":267.768,"body":"is to rise into a place where one can be with and move through and hold conflict."},{"startTime":267.768,"endTime":272.003,"body":"And this is something I'm really curious about, and I just love it every time Sarah talks about it."},{"startTime":272.528,"endTime":277.808,"body":"And the frame she takes, the patience with which she holds it, the grace, all of it."},{"startTime":277.808,"endTime":281.088,"body":"So here we are with Sarah Wadman."},{"startTime":281.088,"endTime":288.333,"body":"Okay, everyone, we have a very special guest today."},{"startTime":288.728,"endTime":295.048,"body":"This feels very special and important, not just because I adore this human, Sarah Wildman,"},{"startTime":295.048,"endTime":302.728,"body":"but also because I really feel like I have been talking about re-villaging and yearning"},{"startTime":302.728,"endTime":310.528,"body":"for ways to make it feel like we aren't doing life alone for so long, looking for someone"},{"startTime":310.528,"endTime":313.81,"body":"who's lived it and teaches it."},{"startTime":314.048,"endTime":324.128,"body":"And then through my wonderful friend and basically creative collaborator, Azalea Mowen, I found you, Sarah."},{"startTime":324.495,"endTime":334.608,"body":"And you are here to talk about what it's actually like to live in a village-like community and lessons learned."},{"startTime":334.608,"endTime":343.408,"body":"And you're going to let me be nosy with you. And we're going to talk about how to apply it in our real lives in this modern time."},{"startTime":343.408,"endTime":347.937,"body":"So Sarah, thank you for agreeing to let me be nosy with you and welcome to belonging."},{"startTime":349.688,"endTime":352.573,"body":"Well, you're welcome, Becca. You can be nosy with me anytime."},{"startTime":352.808,"endTime":354.122,"body":"I always love a conversation with you."},{"startTime":354.848,"endTime":361.568,"body":"Yeah. Okay, so we should name you a leadership and relation dynamics coach, community builder"},{"startTime":361.568,"endTime":363.934,"body":"and founder of Our Common."},{"startTime":364.008,"endTime":370.808,"body":"And Our Common is a super rad Instagram account. I highly recommend, the link will be in our show notes,"},{"startTime":370.808,"endTime":372.528,"body":"but if you look up Our Common, you'll find it."},{"startTime":372.528,"endTime":380.128,"body":"Highly recommend following it if you are like me and curious about like moving from the like"},{"startTime":380.183,"endTime":381.75,"body":"Instagram memes of like..."},{"startTime":383.055,"endTime":389.345,"body":"That feminine trait of wanting to buy land with your friends and raise your own food and live the cottagecore dream."},{"startTime":389.345,"endTime":396.625,"body":"And then like the actual doing of it, Sarah's Our Common Instagram account educates on that"},{"startTime":396.625,"endTime":398.505,"body":"and has amazing, amazing content."},{"startTime":398.575,"endTime":403.465,"body":"So Our Common is a coaching and consulting practice serving community seekers, community builders,"},{"startTime":403.465,"endTime":405.585,"body":"and existing communities."},{"startTime":405.585,"endTime":413.625,"body":"So Sarah, how did you come to the experience of living the experience of living in an intentional,"},{"startTime":413.625,"endTime":417.625,"body":"is it an intentional community that you lived in? What are the terms, what are the words we use here?"},{"startTime":417.625,"endTime":419.649,"body":"How did you come to live in a village-like format?"},{"startTime":421.108,"endTime":425.258,"body":"That's a great question. So many different pieces to the story"},{"startTime":425.375,"endTime":428.505,"body":"that led to living in a communal context."},{"startTime":428.505,"endTime":433.865,"body":"And it's a funny one, even as you ask the question, right? Because it evokes images of commune"},{"startTime":433.865,"endTime":438.761,"body":"and what does that all entail or include?"},{"startTime":438.878,"endTime":445.234,"body":"And our experience was deeply tied to work in the nonprofit sector,"},{"startTime":445.306,"endTime":449.905,"body":"and at the time to our Christian faith."},{"startTime":449.905,"endTime":456.445,"body":"So we were initially working in a nonprofit in the Rocky Mountains doing outdoor leadership stuff"},{"startTime":456.445,"endTime":458.745,"body":"where we lived in a community type context,"},{"startTime":458.745,"endTime":463.985,"body":"a bunch of families that were on staff, singles on staff, where we all had our own home dwellings,"},{"startTime":463.985,"endTime":468.425,"body":"but we shared meals and we worked together and we were quite remote in that setting."},{"startTime":468.694,"endTime":475.445,"body":"And we did that as young, newly married, before we had kids and through our first pregnancy"},{"startTime":475.445,"endTime":477.354,"body":"and the birth of our first child."},{"startTime":477.605,"endTime":484.405,"body":"And then from there, when we moved from that context, we knew we wanted to continue to live"},{"startTime":484.405,"endTime":490.191,"body":"in some sort of community context because we experienced so much value from that."},{"startTime":490.285,"endTime":495.445,"body":"And that's what led us again into a nonprofit setting where we were living and working"},{"startTime":495.445,"endTime":501.525,"body":"maybe in a more explicit, intentionally communal way with other families living and working on land"},{"startTime":501.525,"endTime":502.659,"body":"where there was farming."},{"startTime":502.765,"endTime":506.521,"body":"Yeah, I'm gonna stop there because I feel like you have questions to deep dive into that."},{"startTime":507.765,"endTime":512.285,"body":"Okay, so what you're telling me is you were not raised in a community setting."},{"startTime":512.285,"endTime":514.47,"body":"I mean, you're from Vancouver, right?"},{"startTime":514.965,"endTime":519.045,"body":"I'm from Vancouver. I grew up in the city. And it's so interesting when we start to talk"},{"startTime":519.045,"endTime":522.565,"body":"about the word community because everyone has different images of what that evokes."},{"startTime":522.565,"endTime":528.725,"body":"And there's so many definitions. And I grew up in the same home for 30 years."},{"startTime":528.725,"endTime":534.365,"body":"Oh, I didn't live there for 30 years, but my parents were in the same home for 30 years in a neighborhood."},{"startTime":534.95,"endTime":540.08,"body":"In the west side of Vancouver. And it did have a very significant community feel at the time."},{"startTime":540.08,"endTime":544.32,"body":"A lot of the kids in the neighborhood walked to school together. I went from kindergarten"},{"startTime":544.32,"endTime":549.6,"body":"through grade 12 with a lot of the same kids. We walked to the same organic grocer down the road"},{"startTime":549.6,"endTime":554.96,"body":"in the same pharmacy. So there was quite a community type experience, even in this big city."},{"startTime":555.68,"endTime":560.8,"body":"And I definitely grew up in a home that was very centered around hospitality. I would describe"},{"startTime":560.8,"endTime":563.83,"body":"of hospitality as kind of a core family value."},{"startTime":563.92,"endTime":568.439,"body":"So people over for dinner on a regular basis, people that maybe we didn't even know"},{"startTime":568.547,"endTime":572.076,"body":"through our broader network, coming to stay with our family for days at a time,"},{"startTime":572.364,"endTime":577.08,"body":"hosting international students, sometimes for months or even years at a time as a family."},{"startTime":577.08,"endTime":584.9,"body":"So quite an open door hospitality oriented experience of childhood, but not living on shared land"},{"startTime":584.9,"endTime":587.433,"body":"in more of this kind of collective communal way, no."},{"startTime":588.388,"endTime":592.6,"body":"Okay, so you're a natural extrovert, I'm hearing."},{"startTime":594.32,"endTime":601.27,"body":"Oh yeah, raging, raging extrovert. And you are partnered with an introvert much like I am, right?"},{"startTime":601.68,"endTime":606.005,"body":"Oh yeah, off the charts introvert. Why does that happen?"},{"startTime":606.12,"endTime":612.32,"body":"Ooh, polarity baby, makes for a beautiful relationship. But hard when they talk about community."},{"startTime":612.32,"endTime":614.593,"body":"And we can talk more about your partner, Jessie, in a bit."},{"startTime":614.96,"endTime":620.08,"body":"But my curiosity with that is like you saying, okay, I was raised with an open-door policy,"},{"startTime":620.08,"endTime":624.658,"body":"we hosted international students, we had such like a communal-based family,"},{"startTime":624.8,"endTime":626.98,"body":"and sort of my first little like..."},{"startTime":627.935,"endTime":636.265,"body":"Little nosiness trigger came up where I was like, okay, I also have a desire to have that kind of a"},{"startTime":636.265,"endTime":642.105,"body":"home with an open door policy. I'd say we maybe had a hybrid approach, but I have a very introverted"},{"startTime":642.105,"endTime":648.585,"body":"father who sort of wanted his privacy. And I find that particularly, I've had Tim on the podcast"},{"startTime":648.585,"endTime":654.905,"body":"talking about our community longings and discussions. There is this whole thing around"},{"startTime":654.905,"endTime":661.625,"body":"a fear of people intruding on your space. And I wonder if it's an introvert-extrovert thing,"},{"startTime":661.625,"endTime":667.705,"body":"it could be trauma-based, it could be so much of the cultural context, but I hear from the get-go"},{"startTime":667.887,"endTime":672.748,"body":"that was not a thing in your family culture. It was like, come on in, right?"},{"startTime":674.505,"endTime":680.185,"body":"That's an interesting observation. Yes and no. I actually have quite an introverted father as well"},{"startTime":680.185,"endTime":686.585,"body":"who I think has modeled a pretty beautiful picture of his love language is to cook for people."},{"startTime":686.585,"endTime":690.585,"body":"So we often had people for meals and like the meal would be over and he'd be like,"},{"startTime":690.585,"endTime":694.425,"body":"okay, see I'm going up to my room or he'd be like, I'm heading out to the backyard"},{"startTime":694.425,"endTime":696.105,"body":"or I'm gonna go watch the news."},{"startTime":696.105,"endTime":702.356,"body":"Like he did a very good job of opening the door, offering hospitality and when he was done being done."},{"startTime":702.425,"endTime":706.985,"body":"And those of us that wanted to linger and stay did or sometimes people picked up the message"},{"startTime":706.985,"endTime":708.305,"body":"and packed up and left."},{"startTime":708.305,"endTime":717.435,"body":"So I actually think we weren't beyond that concern about what was the word you used Becca here?"},{"startTime":717.545,"endTime":718.398,"body":"Invasion?"},{"startTime":719.105,"endTime":727.905,"body":"Intrusion. Intrusion. Yeah, I think there wasn't an avoidance of that necessarily."},{"startTime":727.905,"endTime":733.785,"body":"There was an openness and yet there was an awareness of the need for privacy or the need for downtime"},{"startTime":733.785,"endTime":736.065,"body":"or the need for family time growing up."},{"startTime":736.065,"endTime":742.305,"body":"But myself as an individual, I absolutely loved having people in the space, in the home."},{"startTime":742.305,"endTime":746.657,"body":"Even as a kid, I didn't mind sharing the dinner table with strangers."},{"startTime":747.465,"endTime":752.785,"body":"Yeah. Wow, that's such a healthy way of doing it with your father."},{"startTime":752.785,"endTime":758.065,"body":"That's beautiful that that was modeled for you. So really what I'm picking up on is for you and your partner"},{"startTime":758.065,"endTime":763.945,"body":"very early on in your nonprofit work to choose these shared land community experiences,"},{"startTime":763.945,"endTime":769.153,"body":"there was a level of safety felt in your body that I welcome this in, you know?"},{"startTime":769.465,"endTime":775.665,"body":"Because I find when I have conversations with my partner, with my community, with people on the internet"},{"startTime":775.665,"endTime":778.585,"body":"who I consider my friends, there's a real,"},{"startTime":778.585,"endTime":788.105,"body":"I find there's like different levels of like capacity and concern, control, capacity, concern, and control"},{"startTime":788.145,"endTime":792.793,"body":"around letting people in, inviting people in."},{"startTime":792.856,"endTime":800.625,"body":"And I'm sure that's a skill, like a muscle you can build. But I find that you, I'm hearing you and Jesse said yes"},{"startTime":800.625,"endTime":804.965,"body":"to this new adventure of sharing space, which I think can only speak to a nervous system"},{"startTime":804.965,"endTime":806.594,"body":"and being like, I welcome this."},{"startTime":807.098,"endTime":813.748,"body":"Yeah, I also think it speaks to a bit of our naivety. And, you know, we were young when we"},{"startTime":813.748,"endTime":821.028,"body":"first moved our first context. I was 25 and Jesse was 23. So, you know, we didn't have a lot of like"},{"startTime":821.028,"endTime":828.308,"body":"worldly experiences to indicate for us how much we might need space. We just kind of jumped in"},{"startTime":828.308,"endTime":834.628,"body":"with two feet. And that initial experience really was unique in that we were so isolated. We lived"},{"startTime":834.628,"endTime":839.588,"body":"an hour from the nearest grocery store in that community. And it was a number of young families"},{"startTime":839.588,"endTime":846.308,"body":"at similar life stage was an outdoor wilderness center. And so a lot of us had similar interests,"},{"startTime":846.308,"endTime":850.975,"body":"we were all, you know, into backpacking and climbing and mountain biking. And, and we were."},{"startTime":851.588,"endTime":858.628,"body":"At similar life stage in terms of being either newly married or young kids. And we weren't just"},{"startTime":858.628,"endTime":864.628,"body":"cohabitating. We were each other's friends, closest friends and family, really, in a lot of"},{"startTime":864.628,"endTime":869.908,"body":"ways. We hung out maybe three nights a week. We'd put our babies to bed and bring our monitors all"},{"startTime":869.908,"endTime":876.468,"body":"over to one person's house and hang out and talk and – Oh my god, I want that so bad."},{"startTime":876.568,"endTime":883.108,"body":"Be friends! So that was quite unique. And I think that's a time we look back on as being"},{"startTime":883.108,"endTime":890.308,"body":"really special for what it was. And I think that it would be hard to replicate, because the setting"},{"startTime":890.308,"endTime":894.948,"body":"is what set it up to create that sort of intensity. Does that make sense?"},{"startTime":896.308,"endTime":903.188,"body":"Yeah, I think something that the first year of postpartum, first year of postpartum in like a"},{"startTime":903.188,"endTime":909.988,"body":"lockdown setting, we weren't locked down, but right, we were avoiding leaving our homes in 2020"},{"startTime":909.988,"endTime":917.853,"body":"when I had Atlas. So there was like the idea that being close to home felt important and also"},{"startTime":918.114,"endTime":924.388,"body":"because young babies nap all the time or like, I don't know, a lot of new moms, some are quite"},{"startTime":924.388,"endTime":929.028,"body":"adventurous, but a lot of new parents have this sort of like needing to be near home with their"},{"startTime":929.028,"endTime":931.988,"body":"babes. I realized proximity..."},{"startTime":933.31,"endTime":939.56,"body":"In relationship is essential. And as someone who a lot of my bestest friends live far away,"},{"startTime":939.56,"endTime":944.92,"body":"I mean, I consider you a dear friend and you live far from me, right? We have the WhatsApp"},{"startTime":944.92,"endTime":952.12,"body":"and the texting and all that, but I found for the physical in-person relational tending that I"},{"startTime":952.12,"endTime":960.76,"body":"required as a new mom, I needed people who lived blocks away to see. And that way we would pop in"},{"startTime":960.76,"endTime":964.84,"body":"and see each other. And that was like a bing, bing, bing, big aha for me around,"},{"startTime":966.042,"endTime":975.08,"body":"re-villaging in the context of like my life and what I desire as a parent is people close by."},{"startTime":975.08,"endTime":979.16,"body":"And when you talk about everyone brings the monitors and you go hang out and how that was"},{"startTime":979.16,"endTime":984.6,"body":"a unique experience, it's because you were in proximity to each other and you were all you had"},{"startTime":984.6,"endTime":991.88,"body":"in a lot of ways. And I find someone who lives in suburbia in this technological age where the"},{"startTime":991.88,"endTime":998.76,"body":"grocery store is down the street and there's five of them nearby, to choose proximity. I'm sort of"},{"startTime":998.76,"endTime":1002.72,"body":"dancing around here, but it just feels important to speak the lessons as they come, to choose"},{"startTime":1002.72,"endTime":1008.52,"body":"people to be in proximity with is something our ancestors never had to choose, you know?"},{"startTime":1008.52,"endTime":1014.36,"body":"And you in that context didn't have to choose, it was given to you. And I think maybe that's a gift"},{"startTime":1014.36,"endTime":1020.2,"body":"you were given early on when you jumped in with two feet at 25 to be like, oh, this is important."},{"startTime":1021.316,"endTime":1021.64,"body":"Would you say?"},{"startTime":1023.044,"endTime":1027.64,"body":"Absolutely. And I would really emphasize this piece about proximity. I don't think it's the"},{"startTime":1027.64,"endTime":1033.72,"body":"only way to do community or to do village. And yet, we live in a culture that is busy."},{"startTime":1034.36,"endTime":1040.04,"body":"And so if we don't have proximity, proximity equals convenience. And we do live in a culture"},{"startTime":1040.04,"endTime":1046.76,"body":"that is fed by convenience. And so there's just the simple fact of it's much easier to go to my"},{"startTime":1046.76,"endTime":1051.72,"body":"neighbor next door and ask for a cup of sugar than it is to call my friend that lives three blocks"},{"startTime":1051.72,"endTime":1057.96,"body":"away to ask for a cup of sugar than it is, you know, literally impossible for me to ask you unless"},{"startTime":1057.96,"endTime":1061.16,"body":"you're going to mail it to me and it's going to come three weeks later, right? So there's just"},{"startTime":1061.16,"endTime":1067.4,"body":"some simple facts that make proximity such a factor. And I think you point to the postpartum"},{"startTime":1067.4,"endTime":1072.04,"body":"period and the new mother period. And that was my experience. For the first seven years of being"},{"startTime":1072.04,"endTime":1081.24,"body":"parents, we only knew parenting inside a shared living context. And that early first year, I can't."},{"startTime":1082.531,"endTime":1088.92,"body":"Bless all the mothers who do it another way, who do it in isolation. But for me, that was a,"},{"startTime":1089.96,"endTime":1097.24,"body":"survival thing as an extrovert, especially to be able to put my baby down for her nap and to take"},{"startTime":1097.24,"endTime":1104.659,"body":"my monitor and go have a cup of tea next door on the same property where I felt totally safe to do that. And..."},{"startTime":1105.685,"endTime":1111.695,"body":"Really commune with other mothers going through the same stage, the same phase of life."},{"startTime":1111.695,"endTime":1118.255,"body":"And that came at the cost of not being able to go to mom and me yoga or to go to swimming"},{"startTime":1118.255,"endTime":1123.055,"body":"lessons because we were so far from a town. But that shared experience of being able to step out"},{"startTime":1123.055,"endTime":1128.495,"body":"my door and find somebody and knowing that that somebody I would find would be safe, would be"},{"startTime":1128.495,"endTime":1133.375,"body":"somebody that knew me, that somebody that cared about my child, that knew my child, that they"},{"startTime":1133.375,"endTime":1139.135,"body":"knew and they felt safe with. What a unique thing to have. And really a thing that, again,"},{"startTime":1139.135,"endTime":1144.335,"body":"I think when we talk about ancestry and not having had to look for that historically."},{"startTime":1145.637,"endTime":1153.073,"body":"It's in our bones to yearn for that. For me, it didn't feel strange to have that. It felt"},{"startTime":1153.325,"endTime":1157.695,"body":"like survival, but it didn't feel strange because I think inherently we remember."},{"startTime":1158.735,"endTime":1161.935,"body":"That that's how it's meant to be, that we're not meant to do it all alone."},{"startTime":1162.426,"endTime":1168.895,"body":"Mm-hmm. You're speaking my language. Truly, truly. Okay, so then you were in that smaller"},{"startTime":1168.895,"endTime":1177.215,"body":"community in the Rocky Mountains and then you headed west, right, for a larger shared land"},{"startTime":1177.215,"endTime":1183.906,"body":"community that included farming. So this is where I'm like, tell me about it. What were,"},{"startTime":1184.175,"endTime":1188.415,"body":"and I know that you were a part of holding that container. You had interns, you would walk the"},{"startTime":1188.415,"endTime":1190.095,"body":"the land, I know Jesse was a part of it."},{"startTime":1190.095,"endTime":1193.691,"body":"So if you could just tell us, cause we all wanna know."},{"startTime":1194.095,"endTime":1199.495,"body":"Yeah, so it was a pretty unique, it is a unique organization."},{"startTime":1199.495,"endTime":1204.854,"body":"The organization I worked for is called Arasha, which means the rock in Portuguese."},{"startTime":1204.899,"endTime":1209.735,"body":"And the first, it's an international organization. They operate in 20 countries around the world."},{"startTime":1209.735,"endTime":1215.171,"body":"The first one was an environmental center, community-based environmental center in Portugal,"},{"startTime":1215.295,"endTime":1222.975,"body":"in an estuary where they did environmental restoration fur. Birds."},{"startTime":1221.769,"endTime":1227.939,"body":"And there's a center in the Lower Mainland where they run kind of three core program areas. So"},{"startTime":1227.939,"endTime":1232.419,"body":"conservation science, like environmental restoration, monitoring, research."},{"startTime":1233.319,"endTime":1238.339,"body":"And then they run environmental education. So programs for kids, day camps, they do a lot of"},{"startTime":1238.339,"endTime":1242.819,"body":"work. They have a farm to families program where they do a lot of work around food security with"},{"startTime":1242.819,"endTime":1250.685,"body":"refugees, newly landed immigrants, really beautiful program. And then they do sustainable agriculture."},{"startTime":1250.973,"endTime":1257.779,"body":"So they grow organic farm, they have a community shared agriculture project, you can buy a share."},{"startTime":1258.819,"endTime":1264.819,"body":"Monthly share or weekly share. And then they have, I would say, kind of a fourth core program area,"},{"startTime":1264.819,"endTime":1268.819,"body":"which is the community aspect of hospitality aspect. So there's a guest house there,"},{"startTime":1268.819,"endTime":1275.252,"body":"you can go and stay. And we ran a residential internship program, which I think has a new name"},{"startTime":1275.468,"endTime":1280.179,"body":"now since I've left. And folks from all around the world would come and live for three months"},{"startTime":1280.179,"endTime":1284.739,"body":"at a time as part of, you know, as a resident experience kind of community within community,"},{"startTime":1284.739,"endTime":1288.659,"body":"the internship program would be its own little community inside our broader community."},{"startTime":1289.376,"endTime":1294.339,"body":"And there was a number of us families that worked for the organization that lived on property,"},{"startTime":1294.339,"endTime":1299.139,"body":"and we considered ourselves like the residential community. And then there were a number of staff"},{"startTime":1299.139,"endTime":1304.977,"body":"that lived in the local area that commuted in and worked on site day to day. And so there"},{"startTime":1305.219,"endTime":1311.219,"body":"was kind of nested layers of community inside this context. But we did shared meals together."},{"startTime":1311.864,"endTime":1317.474,"body":"At the time this was all pre-pandemic, I think nine times a week. So lunch together five days"},{"startTime":1317.474,"endTime":1323.154,"body":"a week, supper together four days a week. And that was most, suppers were mostly residents,"},{"startTime":1323.154,"endTime":1326.994,"body":"interns, the residential community and any guests staying in the guest house."},{"startTime":1328.014,"endTime":1333.634,"body":"Lunches would often be bigger, off-site staff, maybe volunteers or a program, a group, a class"},{"startTime":1333.634,"endTime":1338.514,"body":"that might have been running might join us for lunch. And all the food we ate would be cooked"},{"startTime":1338.514,"endTime":1340.594,"body":"from food grown on site."},{"startTime":1341.175,"endTime":1345.594,"body":"Okay, who would cook? This is a good question. You know what?"},{"startTime":1345.594,"endTime":1350.114,"body":"There's a funny story about this because, of course, we came from a community context"},{"startTime":1350.114,"endTime":1352.194,"body":"in the Rockies into this setting."},{"startTime":1352.194,"endTime":1357.354,"body":"When we first arrived, we had expectations like people do based on our previous experiences."},{"startTime":1357.354,"endTime":1360.728,"body":"So when we'd been in the Rockies, there was a full-time cook."},{"startTime":1360.874,"endTime":1365.834,"body":"We never cooked. The full-time cook did all the cooking. We could sign up for meals and go or not go."},{"startTime":1365.834,"endTime":1370.934,"body":"We had a kitchen at home, so we could cook at home, but we mostly ate in the main shared"},{"startTime":1370.934,"endTime":1375.974,"body":"area. At Arasha, there was a bit more of a rotation setting."},{"startTime":1376.248,"endTime":1382.174,"body":"So some specially residential staff took turns cooking, interns take turns cooking, and then"},{"startTime":1382.174,"endTime":1388.934,"body":"there is a full-time hospitality coordinator who cooks some core meals, mostly the bigger lunches."},{"startTime":1388.934,"endTime":1393.199,"body":"And we were newly there, I think it was like three, four days, and somebody was like, the,"},{"startTime":1393.734,"endTime":1397.894,"body":"person who's scheduled to cook on Thursdays out, could you guys fill in? Could you cook?"},{"startTime":1397.894,"endTime":1403.414,"body":"And it was for something like 40 people for lunch or 50 people for lunch. And, you know,"},{"startTime":1403.414,"endTime":1406.894,"body":"of course, you're having to cook seasonally based on whatever's available in the garden"},{"startTime":1406.894,"endTime":1410.694,"body":"at the time. It's not just like, oh, I'm going to go to the grocery store and get this or that."},{"startTime":1410.694,"endTime":1415.165,"body":"It's like, this is what's booming in the garden. Here's what you have available to cook with. And"},{"startTime":1415.294,"endTime":1419.574,"body":"we felt so thrown. We were like, what do you mean we have to cook? We did not come with that"},{"startTime":1419.574,"endTime":1424.534,"body":"expectation. So that sort of summarizes it. In the end, as a family, I think we cooked"},{"startTime":1424.534,"endTime":1428.947,"body":"roughly every other, every third week for everyone."},{"startTime":1430.838,"endTime":1437.338,"body":"Wow. Okay, so what I'm thinking about is like, food allergies and preferences. And do you sort"},{"startTime":1437.648,"endTime":1441.248,"body":"of have to put that I guess allergies? No, but you have to put that to the side. I'm thinking"},{"startTime":1441.248,"endTime":1443.888,"body":"about the individualist mind of like, I want to eat what I want to eat."},{"startTime":1445.08,"endTime":1449.248,"body":"Yeah. Isn't that an interesting thing? That's, that's more common in our current age. Michael"},{"startTime":1449.248,"endTime":1453.168,"body":"Pollan has a really great, I don't know if you're familiar with his work, but he has a really,"},{"startTime":1453.983,"endTime":1460.208,"body":"great article about kind of the common pot. And this idea of like, hospitality and shared"},{"startTime":1460.208,"endTime":1465.808,"body":"meals, I think coming around the table is such a core element of community and village life and"},{"startTime":1465.808,"endTime":1470.916,"body":"that shared experience of life together. Eating is such an elemental thing where we connect with,"},{"startTime":1471.366,"endTime":1476.288,"body":"our bodies, we connect with the earth through our food, we connect with each other in the communion,"},{"startTime":1476.75,"endTime":1481.808,"body":"of sharing or breaking bread with each other. And much of that is lost when it's like, oh,"},{"startTime":1481.808,"endTime":1485.168,"body":"this person can eat this and this person can eat that and maybe we'll just go to a restaurant"},{"startTime":1485.168,"endTime":1488.317,"body":"because it's more convenient. But there is actually something quite profound of eating"},{"startTime":1488.528,"endTime":1494.128,"body":"out of the same pot together, literally breaking the same loaf. But of course, we live in a modern"},{"startTime":1494.128,"endTime":1499.728,"body":"age and people do have restrictions and this and that. And so, absolutely, we did work around those"},{"startTime":1499.728,"endTime":1504.448,"body":"things to the extent that that was possible. And usually, there was kind of like a gluten-free,"},{"startTime":1504.448,"endTime":1511.008,"body":"dairy-free version of the thing. And a standard version. We ate probably about 95% vegetarian."},{"startTime":1511.008,"endTime":1519.568,"body":"And a lot of lentils, a lot of beans, yeah. A lot of winter squash, a lot of cabbage for certain"},{"startTime":1519.568,"endTime":1526.768,"body":"months of the year, you bet. Yeah, okay, all right. So shared meals and then there was the"},{"startTime":1526.768,"endTime":1528.568,"body":"land-tending portion, yeah,"},{"startTime":1528.568,"endTime":1530.835,"body":"about how you took care of the land."},{"startTime":1531.645,"endTime":1536.551,"body":"Yeah, I think there's again, there's this uniqueness to that setting in that we were,"},{"startTime":1537.156,"endTime":1541.656,"body":"living this way of life, but part of living this way of life was also our work."},{"startTime":1541.656,"endTime":1548.916,"body":"And so there was somebody whose job it was to look after hospitality and do all the grocery"},{"startTime":1549.245,"endTime":1553.196,"body":"ordering, you know, of course, there are still things flour and sugar and, and there was"},{"startTime":1553.196,"endTime":1559.076,"body":"somebody whose job it was to tend the farm, and to manage what was being grown and to"},{"startTime":1559.076,"endTime":1564.882,"body":"update everyone on what was available and to harvest and store food was somebody's job to do"},{"startTime":1564.972,"endTime":1572.676,"body":"preserving of making sauerkraut or canning beans or whatnot. So there was a really unique quality"},{"startTime":1572.676,"endTime":1577.876,"body":"there. Because I think about this a lot since we've moved away and it comes time to cook lunch."},{"startTime":1577.876,"endTime":1583.236,"body":"I think I used to feel this shame like, while we were there, we ate such hearty, healthy, beautiful,"},{"startTime":1583.949,"endTime":1588.916,"body":"meals that were cooked from fresh produce out of the garden. But it was somebody's job to spend"},{"startTime":1588.916,"endTime":1594.756,"body":"three hours in the morning cooking lunch. Now, when I eat lunch, it's not my job to cook lunch,"},{"startTime":1594.756,"endTime":1600.596,"body":"it's my job to tend to my clients and respond to emails. And cooking lunch is kind of an"},{"startTime":1600.596,"endTime":1606.356,"body":"afterthought, it's this extra thing I add in. And so that, again, I want to qualify that,"},{"startTime":1606.356,"endTime":1611.236,"body":"because as people explore this question about living communally, there's something very unique"},{"startTime":1611.236,"endTime":1616.681,"body":"when the living experience is also tied to this work experience."},{"startTime":1616.825,"endTime":1619.316,"body":"So, are you saying everyone who lived there had a job?"},{"startTime":1620.916,"endTime":1625.716,"body":"Yes. Or could you just live there and receive in some way? Or no, everyone who lived there had a"},{"startTime":1625.716,"endTime":1632.116,"body":"job? That's, yeah, mostly correct. There was a couple of residents who were married to folks"},{"startTime":1632.116,"endTime":1638.169,"body":"that worked there who worked off-site, but they still contributed in terms of contributing to"},{"startTime":1638.436,"endTime":1641.941,"body":"meals or chores on the property, taking out the garbage. That's what I'm saying."},{"startTime":1642.676,"endTime":1650.116,"body":"Yeah. Yeah. So I'm seeing how you, your experience at a raw show was really, you know, this like"},{"startTime":1650.116,"endTime":1657.476,"body":"well oiled machine in the way that like everyone had a job. And so what I'm doing is I'm seeing"},{"startTime":1657.476,"endTime":1664.356,"body":"that as like one, you know, scaled model. And then of course, I'm like, okay, I don't think"},{"startTime":1664.356,"endTime":1669.156,"body":"I can create that from scratch. Because the other thing is you are supporting Tim and I in creating"},{"startTime":1669.156,"endTime":1675.316,"body":"whatever comes next with the Three Waters Farm out in New York and you are dreaming in something,"},{"startTime":1675.876,"endTime":1680.516,"body":"maybe similar. We can talk about that in a bit. And one thing I get overwhelmed with is like,"},{"startTime":1680.516,"endTime":1684.116,"body":"well, we're going to need shared agreements and whose job is it the kitchen? And then I remember"},{"startTime":1684.116,"endTime":1688.996,"body":"talking to some friends who are mothers who are like, what if we all just like buy houses and"},{"startTime":1688.996,"endTime":1694.036,"body":"knock down the fence next to each other and knock down the fence and like just do a community meal"},{"startTime":1694.036,"endTime":1701.266,"body":"once a week. And so this is all for me to guide us in listening to you because I think there's,"},{"startTime":1701.716,"endTime":1707.316,"body":"this experience a lot of us have in isolation in nuclear family individualist living."},{"startTime":1708.171,"endTime":1713.113,"body":"Of yearning for maybe what you experienced, right? But either that's not possible,"},{"startTime":1713.301,"endTime":1716.039,"body":"or that's not near us, or whatever reason."},{"startTime":1716.101,"endTime":1722.301,"body":"But what can we glean from what you're sharing, right? Around like that cooperative model"},{"startTime":1722.301,"endTime":1724.461,"body":"of like everyone does have a job,"},{"startTime":1724.461,"endTime":1728.381,"body":"or everyone does have one meal, or everyone does have one thing"},{"startTime":1728.381,"endTime":1731.841,"body":"that they are focusing their tending and their care on"},{"startTime":1731.841,"endTime":1734.25,"body":"so that it can fully feel shared."},{"startTime":1734.321,"endTime":1739.501,"body":"Because of course, I'm fascinated with community-based communities,"},{"startTime":1739.501,"endTime":1742.874,"body":"and then I'm always fascinated on whether or not they're a cult."},{"startTime":1742.981,"endTime":1748.161,"body":"But it sounds like a Roshda is not. It sounds like it was very healthily held."},{"startTime":1748.753,"endTime":1753.621,"body":"But yeah, that's the other part of me, right, is like looking for the ways in which it's unhealthy."},{"startTime":1754.861,"endTime":1757.201,"body":"Do you have any thoughts on that? Okay, so you said a bunch of things here,"},{"startTime":1757.201,"endTime":1762.821,"body":"and I wanna speak to a couple of them. So one, absolutely, and you know my story a bit, Becca,"},{"startTime":1762.821,"endTime":1767.261,"body":"that since we've moved, we've been for four years living in a single family dwelling"},{"startTime":1767.261,"endTime":1770.581,"body":"in your kind of standard quote unquote suburban neighborhood."},{"startTime":1770.581,"endTime":1776.701,"body":"And so absolutely that's been the exploration for me and through my work the last number of years"},{"startTime":1776.701,"endTime":1781.661,"body":"is what does it look like to cultivate community and village in these more accessible ways?"},{"startTime":1781.661,"endTime":1789.381,"body":"Because not everybody can or wants to dive so deep into the full immersion experience of community."},{"startTime":1789.381,"endTime":1794.025,"body":"And we could speak again here, let's maybe put a little flag to circle back"},{"startTime":1794.115,"endTime":1795.341,"body":"to that introversion thing."},{"startTime":1795.556,"endTime":1802.19,"body":"And my husband and I, Jesse and I, coming from different experiences of community. So yes to that."},{"startTime":1802.604,"endTime":1807.561,"body":"And I love that you've pulled the learning from this piece about everyone having a job"},{"startTime":1807.561,"endTime":1812.741,"body":"to how do we maybe create an expression of that that includes everyone has a role"},{"startTime":1812.741,"endTime":1816.792,"body":"or a piece that they're tending or holding uniquely in the broader community."},{"startTime":1817.395,"endTime":1824.285,"body":"So that absolutely is a piece to carry, to think about. What would that look like where I am?"},{"startTime":1824.285,"endTime":1828.745,"body":"Is there a piece about childcare or a piece about meals or a piece about gardening that I could hold"},{"startTime":1828.745,"endTime":1834.025,"body":"in my broader community, in my neighborhood or with friends that live nearby?"},{"startTime":1835.319,"endTime":1839.235,"body":"And then the bit about cults. Okay, the bit about cults. So, right."},{"startTime":1840.765,"endTime":1844.245,"body":"It's so funny, right? Because it does sort of evoke that imagery."},{"startTime":1844.245,"endTime":1849.365,"body":"And especially, Arasha is a faith-based organization. They're a Christian non-profit"},{"startTime":1849.365,"endTime":1854.965,"body":"whose focus is environmental stewardship or environmental care. So quite different maybe"},{"startTime":1854.965,"endTime":1860.325,"body":"than what is typically pictured with such a, you know, you include that word Christian and"},{"startTime":1860.325,"endTime":1865.445,"body":"it attaches a lot of labels. But I would describe it as quite a spacious community. People came from"},{"startTime":1865.445,"endTime":1869.925,"body":"all walks of life, all backgrounds and belief systems to participate, to engage, to volunteer,"},{"startTime":1869.925,"endTime":1877.314,"body":"to stay, to learn. So Margaret Atwood is a huge advocate of Arash. I don't know if you know"},{"startTime":1877.605,"endTime":1884.085,"body":"Margaret Atwood. She was one of the keynote speakers. And even the David Suzuki Foundation,"},{"startTime":1884.085,"endTime":1890.565,"body":"which is historically known to be quite anti-religious, has partnered with us in a panel."},{"startTime":1890.683,"endTime":1899.045,"body":"So again, very spacious type organization and my experience there, I actually can't quite"},{"startTime":1899.045,"endTime":1905.605,"body":"articulate how healthy I felt like it was. In five and a bit years of living there, and over six for"},{"startTime":1905.605,"endTime":1910.005,"body":"working for them, I never once heard a single person gossip about another single person."},{"startTime":1910.677,"endTime":1913.205,"body":"Oof. That's unique."},{"startTime":1914.035,"endTime":1919.845,"body":"That's unique. That's really unique. Now, you hear a lot of experiences of people in community"},{"startTime":1919.845,"endTime":1924.005,"body":"contexts, and I just heard one this week, where there's a lot of dysfunction, right? And where"},{"startTime":1924.005,"endTime":1929.41,"body":"power gets into play. And so I think this question about shared agreements, absolutely."},{"startTime":1929.726,"endTime":1934.965,"body":"If you're even if you're with neighbors, deciding to pull down fences, like what are we committing"},{"startTime":1934.965,"endTime":1939.125,"body":"to? What is it that we're agreeing to with each other? I think those sorts of things are really"},{"startTime":1939.125,"endTime":1945.685,"body":"important. You know, what are what's our intentions with each other? If things come awry, how will we"},{"startTime":1945.685,"endTime":1949.845,"body":"address those things? Those are absolutely important to be having whatever the scope or"},{"startTime":1949.845,"endTime":1956.085,"body":"scale is. If you're wanting it to be intentional community, it does require some of those upfront"},{"startTime":1956.085,"endTime":1962.885,"body":"conversations and some of those shared elements. Okay, so what were the best parts of living"},{"startTime":1962.885,"endTime":1967.184,"body":"in that shared land, intentional community space."},{"startTime":1968.039,"endTime":1973.729,"body":"For you? The food. For me, the meals was huge, especially as a working parent."},{"startTime":1974.929,"endTime":1982.369,"body":"Now, my experience, our first week after living away, I was like, so I said to Jesse, I was like,"},{"startTime":1982.83,"endTime":1988.474,"body":"does every family, they have to cook five times a week? He looks at me and goes,"},{"startTime":1988.618,"endTime":1991.249,"body":"hun, there's seven days in the week."},{"startTime":1993.729,"endTime":2003.889,"body":"All right, seven times a week we are in charge of this. Us two adults, we are the ones responsible. We grow a huge garden here, so we're responsible"},{"startTime":2003.889,"endTime":2006.849,"body":"for growing the food, preserving the food, harvesting the food, cooking the food,"},{"startTime":2007.541,"endTime":2012.449,"body":"cleaning up the food. That's a huge part of everyday life that I think a lot of people"},{"startTime":2012.449,"endTime":2016.769,"body":"pass right over. We think of it as an afterthought. And of course, there are lots of businesses built"},{"startTime":2016.769,"endTime":2021.729,"body":"around creating convenience around food. So for me, that is absolutely the biggest one,"},{"startTime":2022.044,"endTime":2026.449,"body":"to finish a day of work, to hang out with my family for an hour and then show up to dinner"},{"startTime":2026.449,"endTime":2034.449,"body":"and to have it cooked and to sit and enjoy with friends that feel like family and to take our"},{"startTime":2034.449,"endTime":2040.049,"body":"turns doing dishes, but then to like linger at the table and then walk my kids home across the field"},{"startTime":2040.049,"endTime":2046.289,"body":"to put them to bed at the end of the meal. That's magic. Now I know the difference because we live"},{"startTime":2046.289,"endTime":2052.369,"body":"a different reality now. And that's magic. I absolutely miss that probably more than anything"},{"startTime":2052.369,"endTime":2060.689,"body":"else. And what were the hardest parts? Okay, for me, again, the hardest part circle back,"},{"startTime":2061.573,"endTime":2067.889,"body":"to motherhood. It was for sure, even as an extrovert, this feeling like there was nowhere to go."},{"startTime":2068.928,"endTime":2075.089,"body":"Outside that was our own. Anywhere we went outside, if we left our home environment,"},{"startTime":2075.089,"endTime":2079.489,"body":"we were in communal shared space. And again, there are other ways that somebody could set"},{"startTime":2079.489,"endTime":2085.009,"body":"this up or design this, but this is how it was where we were. And the funny thing about,"},{"startTime":2085.009,"endTime":2089.409,"body":"as a mother, I was there with, you know, my second child was born in that community context."},{"startTime":2089.409,"endTime":2093.169,"body":"So we had little ones, you know, picture a three-year-old and a one-year-old or whatnot"},{"startTime":2093.169,"endTime":2095.169,"body":"on the property. If we were."},{"startTime":2096.114,"endTime":2102.124,"body":"Out, they might be free roaming other children, a six-year-old that would just tag along and join"},{"startTime":2102.124,"endTime":2107.004,"body":"us. And it felt really hard to have those moments to say like, actually, we're just wanting alone"},{"startTime":2107.004,"endTime":2113.724,"body":"time or family time right now. That is like the children would flock to the nearest kind of wise"},{"startTime":2113.724,"endTime":2120.204,"body":"adult that was present in the space. And so there was many a moment where I suddenly found myself"},{"startTime":2120.204,"endTime":2127.724,"body":"watching many children and not just my own. Which I think would be different now, my kids are older,"},{"startTime":2127.724,"endTime":2132.924,"body":"I probably could, you know, I would appreciate it differently having them out and roaming."},{"startTime":2133.123,"endTime":2137.164,"body":"But that element of, okay, now we have to manage these kid dynamics. And there's no,"},{"startTime":2137.804,"endTime":2143.164,"body":"necessarily, there's some degree of choosing when to have that happen and others not. So that piece"},{"startTime":2143.164,"endTime":2148.124,"body":"for sure. The other piece that felt really challenging, and I think a lot of us experience"},{"startTime":2148.124,"endTime":2153.404,"body":"this nowadays, those that work from home or work in an online setting, but that feeling of living"},{"startTime":2153.404,"endTime":2161.324,"body":"where you work. My work was to tend the internship program and their community experience. And so."},{"startTime":2162.236,"endTime":2167.644,"body":"When I would go to a meal, my interns who I cared about, they were in community,"},{"startTime":2167.644,"endTime":2171.644,"body":"I had relationship with them, but it was also my job to care for their experience and,"},{"startTime":2171.644,"endTime":2178.444,"body":"and to answer their questions and tend to a lot of their scheduling logistics. And I'd be sitting"},{"startTime":2178.444,"endTime":2182.444,"body":"at a meal with my kid and my interns are sitting across from me or at the table with me in that"},{"startTime":2182.444,"endTime":2188.364,"body":"sense of like, I'm communing all the time with my work. And my kids felt that tension of my energy"},{"startTime":2188.364,"endTime":2195.004,"body":"and focus being pulled, especially at a meal time or just even on a day off with the kids out in the"},{"startTime":2195.004,"endTime":2200.181,"body":"field, somebody would have a question. So it's harder to have those distinct boundaries for any"},{"startTime":2200.444,"endTime":2206.924,"body":"of us that live and work in the same place or without a lot of distinct lines of separation."},{"startTime":2207.564,"endTime":2212.284,"body":"So I'm going to ask the question everyone's wondering, why'd you leave?"},{"startTime":2214.728,"endTime":2220.684,"body":"That's a great question. This is, I think, where we start to look at our values around,"},{"startTime":2221.336,"endTime":2225.324,"body":"whole system flourishing. So this is something I talk about a lot, looking at things from a"},{"startTime":2225.324,"endTime":2232.524,"body":"whole system perspective. And so, I think about our family unit as a whole system. And I would"},{"startTime":2232.524,"endTime":2238.764,"body":"describe myself as thriving at Harasha and probably could have stayed in some context,"},{"startTime":2239.804,"endTime":2245.804,"body":"for another 20 years. And I had a very introverted – I have a very introverted husband"},{"startTime":2245.804,"endTime":2254.764,"body":"who was not thriving. And for him, a lot of those pieces related just to feeling,"},{"startTime":2256.427,"endTime":2261.037,"body":"Worn out stimulus wise, meal after meal. For me, the meals were a highlight."},{"startTime":2261.037,"endTime":2265.277,"body":"For him, maybe meals were a challenge, right? A lot of stimulus being at a meal with a lot of folks."},{"startTime":2265.277,"endTime":2270.245,"body":"And there was a transient nature to our community. There were those of us that were residential and long-term,"},{"startTime":2270.299,"endTime":2273.702,"body":"but interns came and went every three months."},{"startTime":2273.765,"endTime":2276.682,"body":"Guests came and went sometimes daily or weekly."},{"startTime":2277.117,"endTime":2286.237,"body":"And so for him, that relational experience had a toll. And so there was a broader conversation for us as a family"},{"startTime":2286.237,"endTime":2291.211,"body":"about re-imagining a scenario where all of us were thriving."},{"startTime":2291.997,"endTime":2297.177,"body":"In a lot of ways, it felt like a really complex, was a very complex decision"},{"startTime":2297.177,"endTime":2301.797,"body":"because so much of our experience of a Russia was kind of for me, the end goal vision"},{"startTime":2301.797,"endTime":2304.418,"body":"of the life I wanted to craft and create."},{"startTime":2304.562,"endTime":2309.797,"body":"And I remember distinctly having this one conversation with Jesse where he said,"},{"startTime":2309.797,"endTime":2312.205,"body":"is it though, is it the whole vision?"},{"startTime":2312.277,"endTime":2318.077,"body":"And I had to pause and recognize like, No, my broader vision is one in which our whole family system"},{"startTime":2318.077,"endTime":2319.477,"body":"is thriving and flourishing."},{"startTime":2319.767,"endTime":2325.517,"body":"And here I have this partner that's not flourishing, that's not actually the whole vision."},{"startTime":2325.517,"endTime":2331.641,"body":"So it was on the surface, 90% of the way there, and then there's this piece that's actually,"},{"startTime":2332.037,"endTime":2335.917,"body":"it looks like 10%, but it's so much more, it's so much bigger to have a partner"},{"startTime":2335.917,"endTime":2337.557,"body":"that's not thriving in a setting."},{"startTime":2337.557,"endTime":2343.277,"body":"And so that was a conversation and a decision that we absolutely made collectively."},{"startTime":2343.277,"endTime":2346.648,"body":"I feel like it's a decision we made in partnership together."},{"startTime":2346.819,"endTime":2352.787,"body":"And I would describe it as a decision we made on behalf of his needs and his request,"},{"startTime":2353.117,"endTime":2361.474,"body":"which is a unique thing to journey through in partnership because I grieved our move very, very deeply."},{"startTime":2361.617,"endTime":2366.397,"body":"And for him to hold that grief with me was quite activating, of course,"},{"startTime":2366.397,"endTime":2370.981,"body":"because he had really made that request of me and of us."},{"startTime":2371.077,"endTime":2375.677,"body":"And so, that's a complex thing again. and his grief was that..."},{"startTime":2376.4,"endTime":2381.05,"body":"It was grieving me so much. So I'm trying to hold that grief for him. That's a complex thing to hold"},{"startTime":2381.05,"endTime":2386.81,"body":"with each other and to navigate. But ultimately, that is what led to our departure."},{"startTime":2387.419,"endTime":2391.13,"body":"Thank you for sharing that. And every time we talk about it, I'm like, wow."},{"startTime":2392.81,"endTime":2400.09,"body":"What a healthy partnership to be able to have that conversation, make those choices,"},{"startTime":2400.09,"endTime":2408.17,"body":"hold all the emotions. Thank you for sharing that. So you chose to move to the suburbs."},{"startTime":2409.37,"endTime":2414.138,"body":"Right? With a small town. Yeah. Small town. Oh, you're in a small town. Okay. And you've"},{"startTime":2414.41,"endTime":2423.842,"body":"got your two girls. And, and so how are you doing village now? Yeah, well, it was a process."},{"startTime":2423.932,"endTime":2430.09,"body":"It's been a process. I did a lot of pre grieving. So I'll just say that I think I cried every day"},{"startTime":2430.09,"endTime":2435.69,"body":"for the six months between when we announced our departure and when we moved. So the initial"},{"startTime":2435.69,"endTime":2440.65,"body":"landing phase, I think I'd done a lot of the pre grieving, I was able to enter into like the new"},{"startTime":2440.65,"endTime":2447.61,"body":"energy of being in a place and really holding this collective vision of okay, here are the"},{"startTime":2447.61,"endTime":2452.33,"body":"elements that were so essential and important to me were these like, shared elements of life,"},{"startTime":2452.33,"endTime":2454.198,"body":"community experience."},{"startTime":2454.783,"endTime":2460.393,"body":"And here are the things that Jesse is needing a bit more time as a family unit, a bit more space"},{"startTime":2460.393,"endTime":2466.153,"body":"and autonomy over his own energy and schedule and capacity. So how do we bring these things"},{"startTime":2466.153,"endTime":2469.353,"body":"together and envision new ways? And some of that has looked like things we do together,"},{"startTime":2469.353,"endTime":2474.713,"body":"and some of that has looked like things I do versus things he does, and kind of divvying up"},{"startTime":2474.804,"endTime":2481.273,"body":"those experiences or expressions of life. But now community looks really different than it did. And"},{"startTime":2481.273,"endTime":2487.713,"body":"and yet I would still describe it, our experience, as having an evolving village type experience."},{"startTime":2487.713,"endTime":2494.473,"body":"You know, there are a number of families on our block that we've built relationship with in quite intimate ways"},{"startTime":2494.473,"endTime":2497.833,"body":"that we swap childcare with, that we watch each other's dogs,"},{"startTime":2497.833,"endTime":2500.873,"body":"that we, you know, do meals with."},{"startTime":2501.118,"endTime":2505.313,"body":"Got three other families we're gardening with this summer on a shared piece of farmland."},{"startTime":2505.313,"endTime":2509.238,"body":"So there's a lot of aspects that are woven in,"},{"startTime":2509.291,"endTime":2515.093,"body":"And yet it takes a lot more effort because they're not just right there"},{"startTime":2515.093,"endTime":2517.893,"body":"because the intention needs to be named or asked."},{"startTime":2517.893,"endTime":2522.533,"body":"The number of times I've said, well, I'm really craving building more of a sense of community with folks."},{"startTime":2522.533,"endTime":2526.013,"body":"So we'd love to get together with you more intentionally on a regular basis."},{"startTime":2526.013,"endTime":2530.933,"body":"Like the number of times I've had to be very explicit with people about what it is I'm longing for,"},{"startTime":2530.933,"endTime":2535.773,"body":"what it is I'm calling in, you know, I'm new here, I'm making new friends."},{"startTime":2535.773,"endTime":2538.453,"body":"I would love to get together with you. This was so great."},{"startTime":2538.453,"endTime":2543.173,"body":"We do it in a more consistent way? Let's try to do it regularly.\" A lot of invitation, a lot of"},{"startTime":2543.173,"endTime":2550.773,"body":"initiating. And there's a weariness. There is definitely a weariness associated with that."},{"startTime":2550.773,"endTime":2557.813,"body":"When you feel like it's your job to hold or tend the thing, you described stepping into it in our."},{"startTime":2557.813,"endTime":2564.213,"body":"Previous experiences. When we arrived the first time in the Rockies, we needed a couch. Somebody"},{"startTime":2564.213,"endTime":2568.613,"body":"found us a couch. Somebody helped us unpack. Somebody we didn't know helped us paint our"},{"startTime":2568.613,"endTime":2575.413,"body":"bathroom. It was instant village. Same thing. We moved to Russia. First morning, they threw us a"},{"startTime":2575.413,"endTime":2580.933,"body":"big welcome breakfast, and somebody helped us unload and set up and made sure to introduce us"},{"startTime":2580.933,"endTime":2587.973,"body":"to everybody. There was this instant carrying the load and moving here. There's more of a starting"},{"startTime":2587.973,"endTime":2593.893,"body":"from scratch experience where you're looking for those like-minded folks, you're orienting"},{"startTime":2593.893,"endTime":2598.933,"body":"towards them. You're maybe adjusting your schedule to make space for things to work in a consistent"},{"startTime":2598.933,"endTime":2607.253,"body":"way. You're asking for what you need. And you are needing to be a holder in a more significant way."},{"startTime":2607.253,"endTime":2611.733,"body":"And that is, it's heavy and it's tiring. And so I think we have to need a co-holder or many"},{"startTime":2611.733,"endTime":2617.333,"body":"co-holders to share a vision and get a thing started in a way that actually feels energetically"},{"startTime":2617.333,"endTime":2622.613,"body":"sustainable for us. Yeah, that brings up a lot for me hearing you. Because I know you and Jesse"},{"startTime":2622.613,"endTime":2626.537,"body":"because you both work full-time and you have."},{"startTime":2627.428,"endTime":2631.944,"body":"Your kiddos, and that's a whole thing. And then you're,"},{"startTime":2632.064,"endTime":2636.944,"body":"you're calling in and doing the inviting for community and then there's caring"},{"startTime":2636.944,"endTime":2640.424,"body":"for yourself and then there's making all the freaking meals. Right."},{"startTime":2640.424,"endTime":2645.424,"body":"And so here I am, you know, you're a mother of two and your littles are older than mine."},{"startTime":2645.424,"endTime":2648.904,"body":"And I've got a two and a half year old and I'm like, I'm already tired."},{"startTime":2649.583,"endTime":2655.479,"body":"I'm already freaking tired. And I also know because I tell and coach people who come to me about this,"},{"startTime":2656.038,"endTime":2661.784,"body":"like, if you want it, create it. We're in a moment in history where we are remembering through our"},{"startTime":2661.784,"endTime":2668.264,"body":"longing and we have to, I believe we must trust ourselves and the ability to imperfectly create"},{"startTime":2668.389,"endTime":2676.744,"body":"that which we crave. And so I really hear the amount of labor you are exerting in order to like"},{"startTime":2676.744,"endTime":2683.704,"body":"keep, keep that momentum going because that's the value system of your family system and that's what"},{"startTime":2683.704,"endTime":2690.184,"body":"equals thriving and flourishing, right? And so that's always where I'm interested in and like."},{"startTime":2691.236,"endTime":2696.984,"body":"Commiserating on is like why is it like the mothers and the grievers and the ones who have"},{"startTime":2696.984,"endTime":2702.904,"body":"felt that like acute loss must be the ones to reach out and like I don't want to harp so much"},{"startTime":2702.904,"endTime":2710.024,"body":"in the woe is me because I do really believe in the action it has demonstrably improved my thriving"},{"startTime":2710.078,"endTime":2718.184,"body":"right? To dig deep and reach out and create it. And also, yeah, it's just like a systemic grief."},{"startTime":2718.744,"endTime":2724.664,"body":"I have around and I can feel that I feel in the movement of you from Arasha to the small town of"},{"startTime":2724.664,"endTime":2729.496,"body":"like, there was a loss. And yeah, do you have any thoughts about that?"},{"startTime":2729.703,"endTime":2735.224,"body":"Yeah, I mean, there's a couple things that are coming up for me. One is absolutely this idea"},{"startTime":2735.224,"endTime":2739.858,"body":"that we, not always, but we choose our hard."},{"startTime":2740.224,"endTime":2743.224,"body":"There are some things that are handed to us that we don't get to choose."},{"startTime":2743.224,"endTime":2747.401,"body":"And of course, privilege plays in there. But when we make choices,"},{"startTime":2747.824,"endTime":2752.002,"body":"every choice comes with its own flavor or version of hard."},{"startTime":2752.104,"endTime":2757.184,"body":"And we get to choose what those things are. And I think a lot of the times when we start to think"},{"startTime":2757.184,"endTime":2762.003,"body":"about community orientation, it's not familiar to us for most folks."},{"startTime":2762.084,"endTime":2766.036,"body":"And so it's really uncomfortable. and the flavor of heart that comes with it"},{"startTime":2766.444,"endTime":2769.104,"body":"feels maybe undigestible."},{"startTime":2769.304,"endTime":2773.344,"body":"It's like, we don't know that flavor yet. It looks sort of foreign."},{"startTime":2773.344,"endTime":2775.516,"body":"And am I sure I wanna try it?"},{"startTime":2775.564,"endTime":2780.971,"body":"Because the flavor of heart I have in my independence, I know this flavor of heart."},{"startTime":2781.016,"endTime":2785.944,"body":"And I'm more inclined to continue to choose the flavor I know, right?"},{"startTime":2785.944,"endTime":2792.026,"body":"And so I think there's something unique about our experience now, having lived So it."},{"startTime":2793.349,"endTime":2800.879,"body":"In depth in a community type way that allows us to observe those choices in a more objective way"},{"startTime":2800.879,"endTime":2806.736,"body":"for ourselves and recognize what we're choosing. Okay, well, we could choose to do, you know,"},{"startTime":2806.799,"endTime":2810.959,"body":"one of the things we talked about with the meals, for example, we could choose to do meals more"},{"startTime":2810.959,"endTime":2815.759,"body":"collectively. One of the hard things we experienced with that for Jesse, especially was that we never"},{"startTime":2815.759,"endTime":2822.559,"body":"got to choose what was for dinner. So dinner is whatever whoever was making decided, and that was"},{"startTime":2822.559,"endTime":2827.855,"body":"usually based on, again, organic produce or budget. And so we ate a lot of lentil stew."},{"startTime":2828.188,"endTime":2837.279,"body":"So, okay, that was the literal flavor of hard that went with shared communal meals was lentil stew."},{"startTime":2837.279,"endTime":2841.999,"body":"And now we have a different flavor of hard. We choose to cook our own meals, but we get to pick,"},{"startTime":2841.999,"endTime":2846.239,"body":"oh, what are you in the mood for? We have access to whatever we want. We can choose to."},{"startTime":2847.21,"endTime":2851.234,"body":"You know, I'm in the mood for pizza, let's make pizza. That's a very different,"},{"startTime":2851.441,"endTime":2856.319,"body":"it comes with different challenges and sacrifice. It means more time, it means it's all on us,"},{"startTime":2856.464,"endTime":2860.794,"body":"it means that we do the cleanup and we carry the burden and the cost, but we got to choose"},{"startTime":2861.046,"endTime":2866.959,"body":"what it is we eat. And we're really conscious that when we make that choice that that's the"},{"startTime":2866.959,"endTime":2872.209,"body":"hard we're choosing at the expense of the gain that we get. I think a lot of people aren't"},{"startTime":2872.559,"endTime":2877.199,"body":"maybe so aware when they choose independence that they're doing it to choose a particular,"},{"startTime":2877.199,"endTime":2882.337,"body":"obviously a particular gain, but also maybe to avoid a particular loss."},{"startTime":2882.4,"endTime":2889.319,"body":"And so there's an element for me, when I think about re-engaging aspects of community,"},{"startTime":2889.319,"endTime":2891.299,"body":"and when Jesse and I have these conversations"},{"startTime":2891.573,"endTime":2898.531,"body":"about how we can extend our experience of community into our everyday now, or when we look to the future,"},{"startTime":2898.679,"endTime":2903.599,"body":"we have a real consciousness about what are the particular elements of challenge"},{"startTime":2903.599,"endTime":2907.102,"body":"that we call in with that gain."},{"startTime":2907.174,"endTime":2915.079,"body":"And a lot of it is this element of, I'm not necessarily as in control or in charge of who I'm interacting with"},{"startTime":2915.079,"endTime":2916.959,"body":"or where my energy goes."},{"startTime":2916.959,"endTime":2920.679,"body":"Somebody I might get plunked sitting next to somebody that is like, wanting to talk about a thing"},{"startTime":2920.679,"endTime":2922.279,"body":"I don't wanna talk about."},{"startTime":2922.279,"endTime":2927.919,"body":"Do I have the skills to navigate that, to, you know, whatnot in those experiences."},{"startTime":2927.919,"endTime":2933.999,"body":"And we're aware of that. And so it factors in more consciously when we think about visioning"},{"startTime":2933.999,"endTime":2935.999,"body":"or making those decisions moving forward."},{"startTime":2936.611,"endTime":2948.719,"body":"That was really good. Yeah, that's having me, that's like a really valuable reframe, I think, for the ways I've been focusing on my heart. and."},{"startTime":2950.52,"endTime":2956.37,"body":"Yeah, and I really am aware of the skills I don't have yet, right now, you know?"},{"startTime":2956.37,"endTime":2961.81,"body":"It's very humbling, because it's like I have the yearning, and I have like some skills,"},{"startTime":2962.592,"endTime":2966.21,"body":"you know? And some of them are innate, and some of them are from my family system,"},{"startTime":2966.21,"endTime":2969.25,"body":"and they were modeled for me, and some of them I'm building slowly. And then."},{"startTime":2970.45,"endTime":2976.37,"body":"One of the skills that I really, really want to call in for myself, and sort of the last point"},{"startTime":2976.37,"endTime":2983.864,"body":"I wanted to discuss with you is navigating conflict and community. As someone who grew."},{"startTime":2984.05,"endTime":2994.85,"body":"Up in a conflict avoidant, harmony focused family who, I mean, I feel like I am strengthening that"},{"startTime":2994.85,"endTime":3000.29,"body":"muscle slowly and slow is sustainable, so I'm fine with it. I find that that is one of like"},{"startTime":3000.29,"endTime":3004.794,"body":"the fears that comes up in me, like when I envision this future that Tim and I are like"},{"startTime":3004.966,"endTime":3010.37,"body":"basically dreaming in very slowly and intentionally, that's where I get caught up."},{"startTime":3010.37,"endTime":3015.49,"body":"And that's when the spell of individualism, or you're saying independence, sort of comes into"},{"startTime":3015.49,"endTime":3020.53,"body":"play where it's like, well, we can just choose what we agree, and Tim and I have enough rapport"},{"startTime":3020.53,"endTime":3024.37,"body":"that we can navigate conflict, and that's safe, and that feels like I can handle that,"},{"startTime":3024.518,"endTime":3030.29,"body":"and I don't know if I have the energy or the capacity to navigate this in a community setting,"},{"startTime":3030.29,"endTime":3037.25,"body":"And yet, I want it. I want to be able to do it. And so, anything you want to say for folks who"},{"startTime":3037.25,"endTime":3041.57,"body":"feel similarly, because I find this is a big thing, I'm sure, in your work, too, where people"},{"startTime":3041.57,"endTime":3048.53,"body":"are like, wait, but how? But how? Because I've also seen communities completely implode, or"},{"startTime":3048.699,"endTime":3053.65,"body":"I work more in systems of like circling. I teach circles. I have people circle. I am in circles"},{"startTime":3053.65,"endTime":3059.97,"body":"where it's like, it'll blow it up if we can't work on that skill of being with it and moving"},{"startTime":3059.97,"endTime":3063.01,"body":"through it with grace and trust."},{"startTime":3063.01,"endTime":3065.992,"body":"So what do you have to say about conflict?"},{"startTime":3066.65,"endTime":3070.89,"body":"Can I press in with a question first? Yes, please. Okay."},{"startTime":3070.89,"endTime":3075.89,"body":"So you mentioned that you can do conflict with Tim because there are two things I heard"},{"startTime":3075.89,"endTime":3079.33,"body":"was we have rapport and it feels safe."},{"startTime":3079.33,"endTime":3086.778,"body":"So what makes for you it feels safe to access conflict with Tim?"},{"startTime":3087.09,"endTime":3095.49,"body":"We have built tools up with the support of like therapists and then we have the shared history"},{"startTime":3095.49,"endTime":3100.45,"body":"of having navigated that and gotten onto the other side to have trust that we could do it again."},{"startTime":3101.524,"endTime":3107.338,"body":"Yeah. So I think a lot of the time when we look at community and especially even just friends"},{"startTime":3107.338,"endTime":3114.458,"body":"circling, for example, we are afraid of conflict maybe for two reasons. One, we don't necessarily"},{"startTime":3114.458,"endTime":3122.378,"body":"have established agreements and or shared tools or shared language. And B, we maybe haven't done it"},{"startTime":3122.378,"endTime":3129.498,"body":"together before. And so it feels scary to do it for a first time. I think there is also an added"},{"startTime":3129.498,"endTime":3135.978,"body":"element, oftentimes people feel like the easiest people to have conflict with are either family or"},{"startTime":3136.057,"endTime":3140.778,"body":"a spouse. And the things that I think are unique about those relationships in a lot of people's"},{"startTime":3140.778,"endTime":3145.338,"body":"contexts is there's some sense of security that that relationship's not going anywhere."},{"startTime":3146.049,"endTime":3151.498,"body":"Family is blood, or my partner and I have made a commitment to each other,"},{"startTime":3151.498,"endTime":3157.578,"body":"and that commitment will hold us strong as we move through the conflict. And what's different with a"},{"startTime":3157.578,"endTime":3162.018,"body":"a lot of folks for friends, with friends or neighbors, is they don't necessarily have"},{"startTime":3162.018,"endTime":3168.858,"body":"an established foundation of some form of commitment with each other that makes experiencing"},{"startTime":3168.858,"endTime":3176.338,"body":"a conflict in that relationship feel more terrifying, because, well, if it blows things"},{"startTime":3176.338,"endTime":3179.298,"body":"up we could just go our separate ways, and there's a lot at stake."},{"startTime":3179.298,"endTime":3181.032,"body":"I could lose this relationship."},{"startTime":3181.298,"endTime":3187.018,"body":"I even think workplace conflict often feels safer for folks than a friendship conflict,"},{"startTime":3187.018,"endTime":3192.591,"body":"is there some shared commitment to the work or some sense of shared security in their work?"},{"startTime":3192.698,"endTime":3197.218,"body":"Not always, obviously, these are all complex, nuanced things, the same is not always true"},{"startTime":3197.218,"endTime":3201.938,"body":"for people in their families or their partnerships, but with a broad stroke here,"},{"startTime":3201.938,"endTime":3205.905,"body":"there's some shared element of feeling secure maybe"},{"startTime":3206.098,"endTime":3210.181,"body":"in a workplace that allows people to say, well, we'll figure this out, we'll get through this."},{"startTime":3210.778,"endTime":3218.733,"body":"And maybe worst case scenario, there's less at stake because maybe that's not a close friend or whatnot. when it comes to..."},{"startTime":3219.319,"endTime":3225.889,"body":"Again, friendships or neighbors or like a looser community context that hasn't brought in that"},{"startTime":3225.889,"endTime":3230.689,"body":"intentionality to establish what are shared agreements and how will we address things when"},{"startTime":3230.689,"endTime":3236.289,"body":"we disagree and how will we make decisions if we want different things or if you need to have a"},{"startTime":3236.289,"endTime":3240.209,"body":"boundary and it makes me feel uncomfortable, will we talk about that? How will we do that?"},{"startTime":3240.929,"endTime":3246.964,"body":"If we don't have any of that, it certainly does feel less stable to enter into those conflict"},{"startTime":3247.027,"endTime":3253.809,"body":"spaces. So, I mean, I don't think conflict is ever easy, necessarily, and it depends so much"},{"startTime":3253.809,"endTime":3258.689,"body":"depends on our history and our experience with such things. But I do think there are some key"},{"startTime":3258.689,"endTime":3265.089,"body":"things that set us up well, to do more communal ways of life and navigate conflict. And I would"},{"startTime":3265.089,"endTime":3272.849,"body":"say, the first piece is some sort of shared agreement, even something quite basic or broad."},{"startTime":3272.849,"endTime":3277.248,"body":"One of the communities that was quite connected to Hrasha, there was a living community,"},{"startTime":3277.329,"endTime":3282.129,"body":"another farm where families share land and live together that was connected with Hrasha."},{"startTime":3282.129,"endTime":3289.617,"body":"And those families share an agreement to expect goodwill, which just means assume positive intent,"},{"startTime":3289.689,"endTime":3292.975,"body":"assume the best of each other, expect the best of each other."},{"startTime":3293.069,"endTime":3298.449,"body":"That's their baseline tagline for how they hold their community, expect goodwill."},{"startTime":3298.449,"endTime":3304.949,"body":"Okay, here's an agreement that says, I'm going to assume the best of you and expect the best of you and therefore I'm going to"},{"startTime":3304.949,"endTime":3310.589,"body":"bring the best of me. Those sorts of moments are established."},{"startTime":3311.42,"endTime":3316.23,"body":"Agreements allow us to point back when things aren't going well and saying, hey, remember how,"},{"startTime":3316.87,"endTime":3321.494,"body":"we committed to this together? We agreed to this together. It's not feeling like that's"},{"startTime":3321.629,"endTime":3325.941,"body":"happening. Can we talk about it? We have something to point to as a reference that"},{"startTime":3326.07,"endTime":3329.75,"body":"allows us to enter into those conflict conversations, I think, with more ease and"},{"startTime":3329.75,"endTime":3335.43,"body":"with more security. The other piece is shared language or shared tools. And absolutely,"},{"startTime":3335.43,"endTime":3340.47,"body":"you mentioned having a therapist. I think the same is true. If we really want a deep dive"},{"startTime":3340.47,"endTime":3346.95,"body":"in a community-type way, having opportunities to bring an external, unbiased, unattached,"},{"startTime":3347.655,"endTime":3354.39,"body":"third party into the space to equip us or to support us can add huge value to the longevity"},{"startTime":3354.39,"endTime":3359.91,"body":"and the sustainability of those relationships. Yeah, I love the connection you're making."},{"startTime":3360.636,"endTime":3366.95,"body":"With like a long-term partnership. And that's really what it is. It's a long-term relationship"},{"startTime":3366.95,"endTime":3373.03,"body":"were desiring with each other. The nosy part of me is like, have you ever navigated big conflict"},{"startTime":3373.03,"endTime":3380.31,"body":"in community before? And is there anything you can share about that? Or watched in awe as something"},{"startTime":3380.31,"endTime":3387.27,"body":"was worked out? A couple things come to mind with that question. One was my own experience,"},{"startTime":3387.27,"endTime":3392.15,"body":"so I'll speak to that one first, which was maybe less of a conflict that came to head in the way"},{"startTime":3392.15,"endTime":3400.07,"body":"we classically think of like explosion or loud voices, but more almost internal conflict where,"},{"startTime":3400.79,"endTime":3408.47,"body":"when we were establishing ourselves at the Arasha community, I recognize now that I brought with me"},{"startTime":3408.47,"endTime":3414.87,"body":"some expectations about what community meant. And for me, again, as a person who goes deep fast,"},{"startTime":3414.87,"endTime":3420.71,"body":"and as a person who wears her heart on her sleeve, who likes to be vulnerable, and having come out"},{"startTime":3420.71,"endTime":3423.562,"body":"out of a community context where we were all each other's"},{"startTime":3423.751,"endTime":3429.67,"body":"people, quote unquote, I came into that context, I think having significant expectations"},{"startTime":3429.67,"endTime":3433.47,"body":"of who these people would be for me, what I would be for them,"},{"startTime":3433.47,"endTime":3438.749,"body":"and the kinds of conversations we would have and what it would look like to live together."},{"startTime":3438.812,"endTime":3440.79,"body":"And"},{"startTime":3440.261,"endTime":3445.071,"body":"there was a couple individuals, but one individual in particular, who was not meeting my expectations."},{"startTime":3445.951,"endTime":3450.751,"body":"In terms of depth and intimacy, who was much more of a private individual."},{"startTime":3451.711,"endTime":3457.711,"body":"Who was more reserved than I am, and who engaged in very different ways. Very service-oriented in"},{"startTime":3457.711,"endTime":3463.231,"body":"the community, but not very open in terms of kind of that intimacy, relational intimacy aspect."},{"startTime":3463.231,"endTime":3471.071,"body":"And I found myself really frustrated by that experience, grappled with that quite significantly."},{"startTime":3471.071,"endTime":3477.751,"body":"And I remember walking with a mentor and I was expressing, you know, like, I'm facing this frustration."},{"startTime":3477.751,"endTime":3483.355,"body":"Like it felt like a conflict, even though it hadn't kind of expressed itself that way yet,"},{"startTime":3483.445,"endTime":3485.091,"body":"was more of an internal expression."},{"startTime":3485.091,"endTime":3489.871,"body":"And she said, well, was there any point in time where you've asked this individual,"},{"startTime":3490.476,"endTime":3498.611,"body":"what it means to them to be in community what their expectations of being in community are, what they expect a community-based relationship to"},{"startTime":3498.611,"endTime":3504.131,"body":"look like, or what they're needing or wanting out of community. And it's really a sense of like,"},{"startTime":3504.906,"endTime":3510.371,"body":"oh shoot, I have just absolutely brought all of my own expectations and put them on this person"},{"startTime":3510.371,"endTime":3515.651,"body":"of how they're supposed to show up in community and been walking around feeling frustrated as"},{"startTime":3515.651,"endTime":3520.451,"body":"if I'm in conflict with this individual when it actually wasn't a pre-established, pre-committed"},{"startTime":3520.451,"endTime":3524.771,"body":"thing that we never signed agreements that we'd spill our hearts to each other at every meal,"},{"startTime":3524.771,"endTime":3529.891,"body":"you know, like that was not necessarily the thing. So actually, you know, that's, unfortunately,"},{"startTime":3529.891,"endTime":3533.891,"body":"not a big drama story for you, because really, in the end, it resolved itself with me doing my"},{"startTime":3533.891,"endTime":3538.771,"body":"own inner work around it. Beautiful. And of course, like initiating where I could to."},{"startTime":3539.97,"endTime":3547.171,"body":"Draw that individual in or, like exploring ways to navigate that differently. So that I think,"},{"startTime":3547.171,"endTime":3552.851,"body":"and oftentimes I think when we are in community or in relationship in general, it's great to have"},{"startTime":3552.851,"endTime":3557.651,"body":"that question as a first place when we feel like something is a conflict to check in,"},{"startTime":3557.651,"endTime":3564.531,"body":"is there something here that I'm bringing an expectation? Is there a piece that's mine to"},{"startTime":3564.531,"endTime":3571.411,"body":"work through before I bring this to a relational head? So that as a piece of advice, wherever you"},{"startTime":3571.411,"endTime":3577.011,"body":"lie in terms of community and relationship. You know, and then there have been some, there were"},{"startTime":3577.011,"endTime":3582.931,"body":"some unique experiences that we went through in that, in our time in community with people having"},{"startTime":3582.931,"endTime":3588.451,"body":"different priorities, really, I think one of the things that was, again, unique for our situation,"},{"startTime":3589.011,"endTime":3595.731,"body":"was this working element, because we also had work hats and work roles, that was really important to"},{"startTime":3595.731,"endTime":3603.651,"body":"navigate with nuance. So, you know, I might have a neighbor who, their kids babysit my kids and"},{"startTime":3603.651,"endTime":3606.931,"body":"I might be supervised by..."},{"startTime":3607.73,"endTime":3612.3,"body":"You know, one of them, but they might supervise my partner, and I might be coaching one of them."},{"startTime":3612.3,"endTime":3616.7,"body":"Like, there's a lot of different hats that we might have worn. And there would have been times,"},{"startTime":3616.7,"endTime":3620.94,"body":"absolutely, where it's like a work decision got made, that it was like, okay, there's conflict"},{"startTime":3620.94,"endTime":3626.86,"body":"here, let's like hash this out. I don't agree with the decision you made, or I felt undermined,"},{"startTime":3626.86,"endTime":3631.42,"body":"or, you know, we had a lot of hard conversations about how things made us feel. And yet then being"},{"startTime":3631.42,"endTime":3637.98,"body":"able to say, okay, now let's go for dinner and sit down and have dinner together and say,"},{"startTime":3637.98,"endTime":3642.94,"body":"so that issue aside, how are you doing? How's your heart? How are things with your kids?"},{"startTime":3644.27,"endTime":3651.66,"body":"To be able to move between roles that we wear with each other, again, takes skill,"},{"startTime":3651.66,"endTime":3656.06,"body":"a learned skill, I think. I don't think very many of us are born with that skill, a learned skill."},{"startTime":3656.06,"endTime":3661.74,"body":"To be able to almost in some sense compartmentalize where disagreement was happening. And I think we"},{"startTime":3661.74,"endTime":3666.62,"body":"do this when we're skilled in our close intimate relationships too, right? With a partner,"},{"startTime":3666.62,"endTime":3672.38,"body":"we might disagree on, I don't know, something that happened with parenting, but we can still,"},{"startTime":3672.38,"endTime":3676.94,"body":"hopefully at times, set that down so that we can still navigate this next decision or go"},{"startTime":3676.94,"endTime":3680.06,"body":"through this thing. And then we'll circle back over here and address this. It's not that we"},{"startTime":3680.06,"endTime":3685.393,"body":"we shove that under the bed and ignore it forever, but we also try not to let that seep"},{"startTime":3685.447,"endTime":3689.94,"body":"into every element or every interaction that we're having with each other."},{"startTime":3689.94,"endTime":3695.665,"body":"The same was true in our community context, because in some ways it is a bit like a marriage,"},{"startTime":3695.9,"endTime":3699.9,"body":"not in an overly culty way, but there is, right?"},{"startTime":3699.9,"endTime":3704.54,"body":"There's like, you see each other every day, you see the best and the worst of each other."},{"startTime":3704.54,"endTime":3709.58,"body":"There's a vulnerability inherent showing up to dinner with friends that have also seen"},{"startTime":3709.58,"endTime":3715.74,"body":"you lose your top, or have also seen you ball your face off, who've also seen you lose it at your"},{"startTime":3715.74,"endTime":3722.3,"body":"kids, et cetera, et cetera. There's an inherent vulnerability there that bears some similarity"},{"startTime":3722.3,"endTime":3728.757,"body":"to our most intimate partnerships. Yeah, it's really landing for me hearing you speak to that."},{"startTime":3729.081,"endTime":3738.22,"body":"As someone who often sees conflict in, quote, community. I use quotes because I wonder if we"},{"startTime":3738.22,"endTime":3742.251,"body":"we can actually call like an online group, a community, but yeah, online."},{"startTime":3742.593,"endTime":3750.54,"body":"I think so. Or in spaces where you just don't have that like relational ability to like attune to each other,"},{"startTime":3750.54,"endTime":3754.935,"body":"you know, to each other's bodies, to each other's nervous systems or have that like,"},{"startTime":3754.998,"endTime":3759.22,"body":"you know, and then we all get burritos or whatever it is afterwards."},{"startTime":3759.22,"endTime":3763.12,"body":"I've been thinking a lot about that as someone who used to speak to the spaces"},{"startTime":3763.12,"endTime":3766.449,"body":"I held online as communities and I've stopped saying that term."},{"startTime":3766.54,"endTime":3774.58,"body":"I'm calling them groups or councils or whatever it is, because it's community to me and to many,"},{"startTime":3774.58,"endTime":3777.22,"body":"it means something so different. It's what you're talking about,"},{"startTime":3777.22,"endTime":3779.583,"body":"I think in a lot of ways where you're..."},{"startTime":3780.313,"endTime":3785.663,"body":"Not just there for one thing, and then you duck out. There's like a holding of the whole human"},{"startTime":3785.663,"endTime":3787.363,"body":"that feels really important."},{"startTime":3787.363,"endTime":3794.263,"body":"The other thing that came up for me listening to you as someone who's seen withholding of truth"},{"startTime":3794.263,"endTime":3798.463,"body":"for fear of causing conflict, I am someone who's done that."},{"startTime":3798.641,"endTime":3804.263,"body":"Actually, that is my tendency, especially in like circles or communities that I hold very dear."},{"startTime":3804.263,"endTime":3809.696,"body":"It's like I have a scarcity mindset of like, I might lose it, which is what you were speaking to."},{"startTime":3810.063,"endTime":3816.943,"body":"And so then I withhold boundary crossings, things that need to be cleared, feelings of, you know,"},{"startTime":3817.618,"endTime":3826.623,"body":"confusion or hurt or harm. I find that to be a thing, and I'm naming it here for myself and"},{"startTime":3826.623,"endTime":3835.38,"body":"for folks who are curious about this as well, as like those of us who feel a scarcity of community,"},{"startTime":3835.605,"endTime":3840.709,"body":"of intimacy, of vulnerability, and then we get it. There could be a fear of losing it,"},{"startTime":3841.069,"endTime":3846.303,"body":"and then there's a withholding of truth, and that can create actually conflict is what I've learned"},{"startTime":3846.303,"endTime":3852.623,"body":"over time. And so, I think you speak to such beautiful tools and reframes for how we can."},{"startTime":3853.429,"endTime":3858.303,"body":"Grow through that. And of course, the first thing you talked about, attend to your own inner teacher."},{"startTime":3858.489,"endTime":3862.657,"body":"That's an agreement through the circle of trust framework, which is what I learned in my death"},{"startTime":3862.863,"endTime":3867.503,"body":"doula program with A. Lua Arthur, and I use those agreements at the beginnings of all"},{"startTime":3867.503,"endTime":3871.383,"body":"my gatherings, which is like the first thing we do is we attend to our own inner teacher"},{"startTime":3871.383,"endTime":3875.023,"body":"because often in group settings, I believe in mirroring."},{"startTime":3875.023,"endTime":3879.968,"body":"I believe what one person is activating in me is a mirror for what's within me."},{"startTime":3880.223,"endTime":3884.208,"body":"And so, I think it's beautiful to be in groups where people..."},{"startTime":3885.135,"endTime":3889.865,"body":"Uh, have that agreement and can listen to that within themselves first."},{"startTime":3891.103,"endTime":3897.153,"body":"And then it's not a Real Housewives, you know, drama of throwing things, which, um,"},{"startTime":3898.27,"endTime":3904.094,"body":"I assumed wasn't happening for you. Um, but I'm just always curious about how people navigate"},{"startTime":3904.247,"endTime":3909.385,"body":"any level and form of these things that naturally come up with human beings."},{"startTime":3910.477,"endTime":3916.025,"body":"Yeah. And I think this is where contexting is also really important for ourselves. I use this"},{"startTime":3916.025,"endTime":3920.585,"body":"language of like right-sizing conflict. I don't know if it's like language I use with my kids,"},{"startTime":3920.585,"endTime":3927.145,"body":"right? Or like, are we right-sizing the reaction to this situation? Which is to say there are"},{"startTime":3927.145,"endTime":3931.585,"body":"different degrees of intimacy we have, different degrees of quote-unquote community that we have"},{"startTime":3931.585,"endTime":3939.985,"body":"in our lives and observing a thing through that lens of how, feels maybe trite to say how"},{"startTime":3939.985,"endTime":3945.025,"body":"important is this in the grand scheme of things, but is this something that needs to be addressed"},{"startTime":3945.025,"endTime":3950.225,"body":"in the container of this relationship now? And what's that in service of? Is that in service"},{"startTime":3950.225,"endTime":3955.776,"body":"of the relationship? Is that in service of my own growth, their growth? What is the intention or the."},{"startTime":3956.065,"endTime":3962.705,"body":"Need behind the instinct or the desire to address this in a relational context versus is this a"},{"startTime":3962.705,"endTime":3969.265,"body":"thing for me to address internally. And some of that is best discerned when we can place things"},{"startTime":3969.265,"endTime":3975.985,"body":"well in the container of context. I think about our experience at Arasha that had, I mentioned,"},{"startTime":3975.985,"endTime":3980.785,"body":"these kind of nested experiences of community, the intern community that was there for three"},{"startTime":3980.785,"endTime":3985.985,"body":"months, but they lived in a house with us. For the first three years we were there, we shared a house"},{"startTime":3985.985,"endTime":3992.945,"body":"with the interns. So things like doing dishes, yeah, they were only there for three months."},{"startTime":3992.945,"endTime":3997.665,"body":"There was a degree to which I had to discern how much am I going to kind of house mother these"},{"startTime":3997.665,"endTime":4003.985,"body":"folks into adhering to our shared agreements, and how much am I going to let things go, but also how"},{"startTime":4003.985,"endTime":4008.385,"body":"much does it impact me, how does it impact the other people. These are all things to factor into"},{"startTime":4008.385,"endTime":4014.858,"body":"the discernment around addressing something relationally versus, you know, the relationships."},{"startTime":4015.398,"endTime":4021.43,"body":"That were with folks long-term over our time living there, you know, five years and those"},{"startTime":4021.745,"endTime":4026.545,"body":"relationships have extended beyond since we've moved. Is there something more heart-centered"},{"startTime":4026.545,"endTime":4031.665,"body":"here that needs to be, have I felt disrespected or unseen? Is there some element where I felt"},{"startTime":4031.665,"endTime":4036.385,"body":"misunderstood? Do I really need to address that relationally? Or is it an example like the example"},{"startTime":4036.385,"endTime":4040.625,"body":"I shared earlier where it's like, okay, here's me projecting a bunch of expectations and this"},{"startTime":4040.625,"endTime":4046.305,"body":"is a thing for me to sit back with and work through on my own. We've absolutely had moments"},{"startTime":4046.305,"endTime":4052.625,"body":"where I've been like, okay, this person is leaving in three weeks' time. What is most important here"},{"startTime":4052.625,"endTime":4057.505,"body":"in terms of this relationship and what's most needed to support this relationship? And to"},{"startTime":4057.505,"endTime":4061.561,"body":"support. Again, it's not actually..."},{"startTime":4062.147,"endTime":4070.797,"body":"Grace or love if we are letting something go, but inwardly harboring resentment for it. That is not"},{"startTime":4070.797,"endTime":4077.517,"body":"the same thing as saying, you know what, I'm going to place the wholeness of this relationship ahead"},{"startTime":4077.517,"endTime":4082.024,"body":"of this nitpicky thing that's driving me crazy and actually do my work to let it go. Those are,"},{"startTime":4082.557,"endTime":4087.437,"body":"two different things, and one masquerades as the other. Often I cannot count the number of"},{"startTime":4087.437,"endTime":4092.317,"body":"of conversations I had with interns over the years that was like, such and such is driving"},{"startTime":4092.317,"endTime":4098.477,"body":"me insane, but I'm just like practicing grace and like not dealing with it. That just sounds"},{"startTime":4098.477,"endTime":4106.637,"body":"like avoidance. It's not grace, it's just avoidance. So watch out for those two because"},{"startTime":4106.637,"endTime":4110.557,"body":"they can be sneaky in one representing the other, but they're not the same."},{"startTime":4110.557,"endTime":4121.183,"body":"Yeah. Oh my gosh. Don't I know it. Okay, I have one final question for you, which is"},{"startTime":4121.409,"endTime":4129.43,"body":"what is on the horizon for your family system when it comes to village and community? Like"},{"startTime":4129.745,"endTime":4133.117,"body":"anything you want to share about that?"},{"startTime":4133.117,"endTime":4140.397,"body":"That it's an ongoing, daily, almost daily conversation that we hold in our family."},{"startTime":4141.304,"endTime":4146.897,"body":"I think, you watch your kids grow up and you recognize the things that influence them"},{"startTime":4146.897,"endTime":4149.617,"body":"is more than just your immediate family unit."},{"startTime":4149.617,"endTime":4155.217,"body":"It is the broader community that they're a part of. And we're very conscious of cultivating an environment"},{"startTime":4155.217,"endTime":4163.017,"body":"for them that supports their growth and development, their exploration of the world and their sense of self."},{"startTime":4163.116,"endTime":4166.977,"body":"And so it's important to us to be thinking beyond just like, how are we raising them?"},{"startTime":4166.977,"endTime":4171.377,"body":"And what are we choosing to do at home? But also like, who are the people we're calling in? And"},{"startTime":4171.488,"endTime":4176.497,"body":"what are the ways of life that they're experiencing? And, you know, again, I mentioned"},{"startTime":4176.497,"endTime":4184.577,"body":"our move away from a community context was very much to support Jesse's need at the time to step"},{"startTime":4184.577,"endTime":4190.257,"body":"away from the intensity, the social relational intensity of that experience. And as we've"},{"startTime":4190.257,"endTime":4196.657,"body":"stepped away. And as he's had some space and time, that has also allowed space to reimagine."},{"startTime":4196.657,"endTime":4204.896,"body":"One of the things we think about a lot or talk about a lot is a more shared land ownership,"},{"startTime":4205.049,"endTime":4210.417,"body":"maybe our own home dwellings with some shared rhythms together, maybe a weekly meal or."},{"startTime":4210.594,"endTime":4215.857,"body":"Bi-weekly meal, some shared chores and responsibilities and agreements, maybe shared"},{"startTime":4215.857,"endTime":4225.537,"body":"ritual, and yet separate jobs. Not so much immersion of life and work in the everyday."},{"startTime":4225.537,"endTime":4230.097,"body":"So that's certainly one expression. But the other is really tending to what we've been cultivating"},{"startTime":4230.097,"endTime":4234.097,"body":"here in our neighborhood, which is food growing, it is..."},{"startTime":4234.972,"endTime":4243.862,"body":"Child-tending, it is all kinds of, you know, shared meals, weekly cold plunges, with friends that are."},{"startTime":4244.749,"endTime":4250.022,"body":"Doing life in a lot of ways literally alongside us down the block. And so there's a lot of"},{"startTime":4250.022,"endTime":4256.056,"body":"curiosity about how that will evolve and change over the years. And we are very intentional"},{"startTime":4256.433,"endTime":4262.502,"body":"about having conversations of how do we weave in and expose our kids to community-type experiences,"},{"startTime":4262.502,"endTime":4268.342,"body":"even if it's not there lived every day anymore. And so that for us does include visits back to"},{"startTime":4268.342,"endTime":4276.422,"body":"Russia, stay in the guest house. It also includes consistent time with groups of friends. We have"},{"startTime":4276.422,"endTime":4281.542,"body":"like an annual camping trip with certain friends. So there's lots of ways that we are looking at"},{"startTime":4281.542,"endTime":4288.982,"body":"doing that and really open to allowing that to evolve and just choosing one next step at a time"},{"startTime":4288.982,"endTime":4299.702,"body":"and trusting it to evolve and unfold and for our own vision and desire for it to evolve and unfold over time."},{"startTime":4301.544,"endTime":4311.074,"body":"I have such, yeah, it just, it's nice to feel kinship around these things, and yeah, you"},{"startTime":4311.074,"endTime":4313.994,"body":"have such leadership and wisdom to share."},{"startTime":4314.234,"endTime":4319.36,"body":"And I'm in this moment before we hit record where I was just talking about dealing with"},{"startTime":4319.521,"endTime":4326.634,"body":"existential despair as a mother in this world, in this time, you know, that for whatever"},{"startTime":4326.634,"endTime":4332.354,"body":"reason, like, this was my time, this is my lifetime, and you really linking that to like,"},{"startTime":4332.354,"endTime":4338.754,"body":"this is why we're talking about these things and making these choices and moving with the"},{"startTime":4338.754,"endTime":4345.331,"body":"rhythms of life is because we're navigating these things for not just like, for our, not"},{"startTime":4345.554,"endTime":4350.394,"body":"just for like our family in this moment, but for like, the land, for the legacy we're leaving,"},{"startTime":4350.394,"endTime":4355.854,"body":"and I just really appreciate the frame you take and the work you do, and thank you for"},{"startTime":4355.854,"endTime":4357.34,"body":"for chatting with me about this."},{"startTime":4358.214,"endTime":4362.148,"body":"Yeah, thanks for that, Becca, and for the reminder to all of us that,"},{"startTime":4362.214,"endTime":4367.054,"body":"you know, we don't necessarily make the choices we make because we know the result they'll have"},{"startTime":4367.054,"endTime":4370.454,"body":"or because we're trying to cultivate or create some specific outcome,"},{"startTime":4370.454,"endTime":4378.649,"body":"but rather to make choices that are in front of us that feel whole and aligned and right at our core."},{"startTime":4379.814,"endTime":4385.481,"body":"And to choose those things, believing and trusting that they unfold a goodness,"},{"startTime":4385.974,"endTime":4389.037,"body":"not even necessarily knowing exactly what that is,"},{"startTime":4389.094,"endTime":4397.391,"body":"or knowing that we can't control all of the outcomes, but yet choosing anyways, those next right things."},{"startTime":4398.254,"endTime":4405.052,"body":"Yeah. Well, thank you for being here. We will put in the show notes at belongingpodcast.com"},{"startTime":4405.174,"endTime":4412.754,"body":"links to your work as a leadership and Relationship Dynamics coach to our comment,"},{"startTime":4412.754,"endTime":4414.714,"body":"to your Instagram, to all those things."},{"startTime":4414.714,"endTime":4418.474,"body":"So check out Sarah in the show notes if you wanna know more,"},{"startTime":4418.474,"endTime":4423.966,"body":"cause it's pretty good stuff. And thank you again for being here."},{"startTime":4424.394,"endTime":4426.153,"body":"Thank you. Thanks for having me, Becca."},{"startTime":4426.16,"endTime":4433.2,"body":"Music."},{"startTime":4433.714,"endTime":4438.314,"body":"Thank you so much for joining me in a time when our attention is being pulled"},{"startTime":4438.314,"endTime":4442.538,"body":"in so many different directions, it means a lot that you took time out of your day"},{"startTime":4442.87,"endTime":4445.959,"body":"to spend it with me and in these important conversations."},{"startTime":4446.834,"endTime":4450.577,"body":"For show notes and links and more information about my guests,"},{"startTime":4450.674,"endTime":4453.871,"body":"you can head to belongingpodcast.com."},{"startTime":4454.514,"endTime":4458.229,"body":"And if you'd like to hear more from me and get access to my free newsletter"},{"startTime":4458.314,"endTime":4464.782,"body":"called Slow and Seasonal, you can head to beckapiestrelli.com slash subscribe."}]}