Retirement Planning: Finding Purpose Beyond Financial Security

About the Guest:

Tony Hixon is a financial expert and author with a commitment to helping retirees find purpose beyond their working years. As a co-founder of Hixon Zuercher Capital Management, he has provided strategic insights into retirement planning, focusing on a blend of financial and mental readiness for life's new chapter. Tony has also authored the book Retirement Stepping Stones: Find Meaning, Live with Purpose and Leave a Legacy, which shares valuable lessons from his personal experiences and professional expertise in finance and retirement planning.

Episode Summary:

In this episode of Chamber Amplified from the Findlay-Hancock County Chamber of Commerce, host Doug Jenkins speaks with Tony Hixon from Hixon Zuercher Capital Management about the often-overlooked psychological aspect of retirement. The episode delves into the topic of not just being financially prepared to retire, but also mentally ready for the transition. Tony shares a moving personal story about the loss of his mother and how it catalyzed his mission to help others navigate the mental aspects of retirement, ensuring they find purpose beyond their careers.

Listeners are invited to challenge the notion of retirement as merely a time for leisure, like golfing or traveling. Instead, Tony prompts retirees to ask, "Who am I?" beyond their professional identities. Aspects such as the importance of maintaining a social network and the possibility of re-entering the workforce for fulfillment are also discussed, offering a comprehensive approach to retirement that integrates financial stability and mental wellness.

Key Takeaways:

• Retirement requires mental preparation as much as financial; knowing what you're retiring to is crucial.
• The importance of discovering and living by core personal values post-retirement was emphasized.
• Engaging in meaningful activities, such as volunteering, can significantly alleviate the void left by leaving a career.
• Social connections matter: replacing workmates with playmates is essential in retirement for mental well-being.
• Many retirees can consider a part-time return to the workforce if it aligns with their core values and purposes.

Resources:

• Tony Hixon's book: Retirement Stepping Stones: Find Meaning, Live with Purpose and Leave a Legacy
• Website: Hixon Zuercher Capital Management Coaching

Music and sound effects obtained from https://www.zapsplat.com

Transcript

0:00:00 - (Doug Jenkins): Coming up next on Chamber Amplified, what.
0:00:02 - (Tony Hixon): We found is taking that action of sorting those values into the, as simple and childish as it sounds, has changed lives, has literally changed lives as they've been able to brainstorm a future that's bigger than their past.
0:00:18 - (Doug Jenkins): Welcome to the show. I'm Doug Jenkins from the Findlay Hancock County Chamber of Commerce. On each episode of Chamber Amplified, we're examining issues impacting the local business community, whether it's employee recruitment, retention, marketing, it issues, finances, really anything that can impact your business. Our goal is to give our members tips each week on at least one way they can improve operations and thrive in the current business environment.
0:00:41 - (Doug Jenkins): Last week on the podcast, we talked about things that business owners who are considering retirement need to be doing to make sure that they're secure in their financial future. Obviously, it's a very important topic and one that we plan to continue to focus on here at the Chamber of Commerce. Today we're taking that one step further. You've retired from your business. Now what? Your answer might be golf or travel, but is that really enough to sustain you? It's a really important question to answer.
0:01:06 - (Doug Jenkins): My guest today is Tony Hickson from Hickson Zuercher Capital Management. Tony's going to share with us a deeply personal story about why this is such an important topic for him, as well as the process that he walks people through to make sure that they're not just financially ready to retire. Obviously, that's still very important, but mentally ready for the changes in their lifestyle ahead. Thanks again for tuning in. And remember, if you're listening on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, you can rate and review the show there. It really does help spread the word.
0:01:32 - (Doug Jenkins): Now let's get into it. We've been talking about retiring business owners here in November. We know that there's a big wave of that coming, not just locally. It's a national thing that people have been talking about. Last week on the podcast, we talked a little bit about what business owners should be doing just from a financial standpoint, which is very, very important. What we want to talk about today is the mental preparation that you need to do because suddenly you are not in that day today.
0:01:59 - (Doug Jenkins): And that's something that you've really focused a lot of energy on here in the last several years.
0:02:04 - (Tony Hixon): Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right, Doug. And it really was driven out of a personal tragedy that occurred in my life several years ago. And if you wouldn't mind, I'd love to share that story with you.
0:02:14 - (Doug Jenkins): Yeah, absolutely. I think it really drives Home, the importance of this, and also why it's so personal for you.
0:02:19 - (Tony Hixon): Yeah, for sure. So, yeah. My mom, Pam Hickson, graduated as a registered nurse back in 1971, so she quickly got a job as a floor nurse at a local hospital, where she worked long hours in the swing shift and. But that proved it difficult to raising a young family, including my older sister and myself. And soon enough, she'd find herself in a home health agency where she had more steady hours and a regular income.
0:02:47 - (Tony Hixon): And mid-80s. That's when hospice began to become a thing. It hasn't been around forever. So hospice was kind of that place in the healthcare industry where if the patient really can't be helped beyond the healthcare system, they send them back home so that they can be surrounded by loved ones, familiar surroundings. And this calling, this job in hospice really became my mom's significance, her meaning, her purpose.
0:03:15 - (Tony Hixon): And soon enough, she would find herself leading as the executive director of a local hospice agency. Well, around the mid-2000s, electronic medical records began to become a thing. And if you know anything about my mom, she. She was very technologically challenged, and she loved providing care for her patients as they would transition from this life to the next. But she hated the bureaucracy and the administrative work and the computer work took place behind the scenes. And she found herself behind a desk more often than she could be bedside, caring for her patients.
0:03:51 - (Tony Hixon): And if you can imagine the toll that just a career in hospice would take relationally and spiritually and emotionally, and then add on EMR electronic medical records, and she really just had a really big case of career burnout, and she wanted nothing more than to retire. So around the mid 2000, late 2000s, 2008, 2009, she ran the idea past her primary financial advisor, who wasn't me. We separated business and family. That's a good thing.
0:04:26 - (Tony Hixon): And her primary financial advisor pulled out her experience, her software, and her credentialing, and she came up with the result, and she gave my mom the green light to retire. They had accumulated enough, enough wealth. Well, I was eight years into my career at the time, and so my mom wanted to honor that and provide me an opportunity to give her a second opinion. And so I pulled out my credentialing, my software, and my experience, and I came up with the same result, and I gave my mom the green light to retire.
0:04:56 - (Tony Hixon): And so she did. Well, this was the fall of 2010, and if you know anything about the fall that we're experiencing now, this is leading into the time in our. In our beautiful state where things start to get dark, right? And the leaves turn and gray begins to fall across our land. And within six months of retiring, we found that she had really lost her way. And her significance and purpose that she had found in her career were now nowhere to be found.
0:05:31 - (Tony Hixon): She knew exactly what she was retiring from, but yet had no idea what she was retiring to. She. She had enough money to sleep at night, but not enough purpose to get up in the morning. And on the morning of March 22, 2011, my mom, Pam Hixon, she chose to take her life. The ripple effects of that decision were staggering. My dad and her, they were high school sweethearts. And now he would be left with the balance of his life with no companion by his side.
0:06:04 - (Tony Hixon): My sister and mom, they had a great relationship. And she would, she would miss that special mother daughter bond. And my kids, her grandkids, would miss out on the blessing that the grandma would be to them as they grew up. And I, Doug, I was one of the two financial advisors that gave her the green light to retire. The very thing that led to her death and the immense amount of guilt and shame that I felt, it could have. It could have ruined me, it could have destroyed me.
0:06:36 - (Tony Hixon): But I chose by God's grace to turn that tragedy into triumph. That stumbling block and the stepping stones. And I now understand the significance that it's not near as important to decide what we're retiring from, but it's important that the retiree, the pre retiree, the business owner do the hard work of who they are apart from their title, who they are apart from their career, what they're going to be doing for the next 20 to 30 years. Plus, it's not near as important to decide what we're retiring from. It's important to do the hard work of deciding what we're retiring.
0:07:13 - (Doug Jenkins): Tony, first of all, it's a deeply personal story and we appreciate you sharing that with us. I know it probably doesn't get any easier to talk about that over the years, but finding some sort of purpose out of that, at least that's a soft landing spot in that regard. So thank you. In that regard, I want to focus on the retiring too, because I've never really heard it spoke about that way. And from all of the conversations we've been having over the last month and over the last several months, as we start to look into this issue is, especially when it comes to people who are going to be retiring out of a business they start, they are in the minutia of that business day to day. Today they may not have the hobbies and the things that they're looking forward to. They may not have time, have had time to even think about that. So how do they start the process of thinking when I hang it up, what am I doing next?
0:08:06 - (Tony Hixon): Yeah, you're, you're hitting the nail on the head, Doug. There's, there's an idolization of retirement in America. And it's all done through commercials and advertisements that would say that retirement is nirvana and the best destination ever. And a lot of times that that is correct. It's a very great place to be and to finish out life in. But waking up each and every day without purpose and without knowing how to fill that 40 plus hours that you spent at the office without having a purposeful, intentional way of replacing your workmates with playmates, these all can really lead into the retiree feeling a sense of loss as they look back over their career and they've lost that steady income or those, that routine that they had.
0:08:53 - (Tony Hixon): And it can also promote a feeling of being lost as they look into the future and not, and being unsure what's next for them. They have 30 plus years in this retirement phase. What are they going to do? And so the first, the first encouragement that we provide to that business owner that you're referring to that has been caught up in the minutia of not only starting the business, but building it to where it is, where they're able to be financially independent and retire, the first thing is to answer a question.
0:09:24 - (Tony Hixon): And the question is kind of weird, but it's, it's so important. And that question is, who am I? Who am I? And what happens is during the career phase that that question may percolate to our minds. And so often we're so busy building our business or paying off the mortgage or dropping our kids off or picking them up or climbing the corporate ladder that we're able to suppress that question for a time being in retirement.
0:09:51 - (Tony Hixon): We don't have near that busyness to suppress that question. And it percolates into our heads. And pretty soon, if we are unable to answer that question apart from our title, we'll have concerns about what the future could be. And so it's important for the pre retiree to know who they are apart from their career, to identify their values, what's important to them, what will motivate them and help them to put two feet on the ground every day and attack their schedule, attack that day with purpose and meaning and significance and to repeat that day after day for the next 30 plus years that they'll experience in that. In that retirement timeframe.
0:10:30 - (Doug Jenkins): So it sounds like that's more than playing golf, which I, when I retire, would plan to do a lot of. But golf is fun. Golf is not a purpose. Especially if you golf the way I do, then it's most definitely not a purpose that way. So to me, it seems like this is, you know, what we're, you know, if I'm a business owner, it doesn't really matter if you're a business owner or not. Just from the subject that we've been tackling this month, you probably had charities that you gave to. Is this an opportunity to be more involved in that? Like, hey, maybe I can be on your board.
0:11:05 - (Doug Jenkins): Maybe I can help you with volunteer events or serve as an advisor in relation to my experience to help that charity or that organization further its mission. That seems like that's a, a big jumping off place here.
0:11:18 - (Tony Hixon): Oh, man, you're. You're absolutely nailing it. And oftentimes during our careers, we, we may volunteer for that board, but we never are able to put as much time as we like to in volunteering for it. We may, we may give to it because we have the financial means. But as far as volunteering to make an impact on the, the children or the organization or what, whoever that, that nonprofit may serve, now we have ample time to be able to pay it forward and pay it back in our retirement career.
0:11:49 - (Tony Hixon): But ultimately, it's important. One of the ways that we've also accentuated that point, Doug, is we have these things called value cards. So picture a card deck, 52 cards, right? The difference is, is that on these value cards, there are 52 values listed. And so we say, okay, here's. Here's 52 cards. Here's values. I, I think that family is important, or 52 values that. My faith, literacy environment.
0:12:17 - (Tony Hixon): All of these different values that, that exist on these playing cards. And we say, all right, make two piles. Okay, the pile on the left, not important to me at all. Pile on the right, kind of important. So all of a sudden you split them in half and you cast away the left side and you pick up the right side. And these were somewhat important to you. You put them in that pile for a reason. And we say, okay, Doug, get those down to 10.
0:12:39 - (Tony Hixon): So you kind of spread them out in front of you, and you kind of, you're forced to really narrow in on what values are truly important. And once you get there, you smile up at me and you say, I got it down to 10. And I look back at you and I say, take it to five. And so it forces you to get even deeper into your very heart of what makes your heart pound, what gives your life purpose, what makes your heart beat, what is it, those things, what is it that will make you, that will cause you to want to get up the next day and put two feet on the ground to, to live with meaning and significance.
0:13:12 - (Tony Hixon): And once you find those top five values, we take you to the next step, which we may be able to talk about in the balance of our time together.
0:13:20 - (Doug Jenkins): Yeah, absolutely. We've got plenty of time. Let's kind of get to that. Because it sounds, I have to imagine when you first start having this conversation with, with someone, a lot of times you're dealing with very pragmatic people. And this is not a, this is, I mean, actually the way you're doing it kind of makes it more of a pragmatic process than just saying, well, what do you care about actually putting it down and having to take things out of the pile and everything.
0:13:46 - (Doug Jenkins): That seems like more of a hands on process where maybe people grasp what you're trying to do a little bit easier. Is that what you found?
0:13:52 - (Tony Hixon): Yes. Yeah. There's a study that's out there that says, you know, if you think about it, that's part of the pro, part of the process. But if you take action, literally moving your hands, literally handwriting some of your responses, um, that will greatly enhance the opportunity for you to actually do the action. So, yeah, what we found is taking that action of sorting those values into the, as simple and childish as it sounds, has changed lives, has literally changed lives as they've been able to brainstorm a future that's bigger than their past.
0:14:28 - (Doug Jenkins): I want to come back to the, like the final steps of that, but a thought that just popped into my head, especially over the last few years. Covid really changed our relationship to work. And we did see a lot of people retire earlier than maybe they were going to. One of the offshoots of that is that some people have come back into the workforce after retiring in some way, shape or form because they didn't, they didn't know what to do with all the time.
0:14:57 - (Doug Jenkins): What has been your experience in talking to younger retirees who, who got out because they realized they could financially and then realize that I'm only in my 50s, I still have a lot to do.
0:15:08 - (Tony Hixon): Yeah, yeah. That's very insightful for you to ask that question. And I think what, what we have found is that a retiree needs Permission. I think when they, when they re. If they feel like they want to re. Enter the workforce, it's like a, it's taboo. It's like something's wrong and maybe their friends will think they didn't have enough money or whatever that, whatever that mindset might be. We fight against it on behalf of our retiree. We encourage them to engage and if it requires them to be a greeter at Lowe's because they just, they worked in construction their whole life, go do it.
0:15:42 - (Tony Hixon): Go get that part time job. We call it option B. So it's, what you're referring to is option B is retirement wasn't what it was cracked up to be. I still want human interaction. A paycheck is nice but not necessary. But I still want to get out of the house from time to time and interact with others and that's how I'm going to drive my purpose. So always having option B available is certainly an encouragement that we provide for our clients.
0:16:05 - (Doug Jenkins): I would imagine at any age, but especially for people who you retire younger, if you're in that position where you can retire early, you're probably a pretty driven person. You've probably climbed that corporate ladder or whatever that ladder might be. So as you said, reentering and coming back and being a greeter at Lowe's, giving yourself the permission and grace to do that can be a little awkward because you've always been so step driven that I'm going to be here and then all of a sudden you're coming back at an entry level. But you may, you may enjoy that more than what you were doing.
0:16:36 - (Tony Hixon): That's right. Yeah. Yeah. The stories that we've heard of people who have gone back less than part time but engaged in workplace friendships and a little bit of a routine and structure when golf got boring and the house projects were done. It gives you an outlet to be able to utilize the skills and the personality that you've, that you've perfected over a 30 plus year career. Might as well continue to help humanity survive and thrive in your second half as well.
0:17:06 - (Doug Jenkins): I'm gonna go back to American Eagle Outfitters, fold some clothes.
0:17:10 - (Tony Hixon): That's my, that's your thing.
0:17:13 - (Doug Jenkins): That's what I'm gonna do. Throw it back to the college days.
0:17:16 - (Tony Hixon): There you go. Is that, is that place still in, in the Findlay Mall?
0:17:19 - (Doug Jenkins): No, unfortunately not. It was very sad when it went out a few years ago. I didn't realize that literally everybody had worked there in one way, shape or form over the years. So let's go Back to the cards. And like you said, you get it down to that top of five or that top five, and then that's where you. You really start to make some decisions. What are the things you look at then?
0:17:41 - (Tony Hixon): Yeah. So once you have it to those five, what we. That is, that's the first step. And if you happen to be married or have a significant other, that's the point where you talk to your. To your spouse or significant other. You're like, hey, these are my values. What are yours? And how can we dream together? Because ultimately, what happens, Doug, the research would reveal that within the first two years of retirement, divorce rates spike.
0:18:07 - (Tony Hixon): Well, why is that? Well, it's because you go from a bit of healthy separation during the career phase to now being together all the time, and you're up in each other's business, and while you still love each other, you can be annoyed by one another as well. And so dreaming together on. On what your second half could look like is crucial. And it allows you the platform and ability to brainstorm, to vision cast and reorient, to repurpose yourself into what could be next, what could be that bigger future for you?
0:18:39 - (Tony Hixon): And it's an exciting exploratory phase of taking your values and dreaming of what. How you could implement them into your. Into your lives.
0:18:47 - (Doug Jenkins): I think at that point, you're probably pretty excited about this process, and that makes that those, you know, when you. Like you said, when golf stops being so much fun. That really makes the rest of that exciting, though. Instead of thinking, oh, boy, I. What did I get myself into?
0:19:03 - (Tony Hixon): Correct. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And ultimately, Doug, what that leads to then is deciding who you're taking with you. Right? So once you've identified who you want to be and you've identified how you're going to get there, and then you have to answer the question, who am I taking with me? Because ultimately, if you've retired, you've often left your workmates at the office, and you need to replace those workmates with playmates, because ultimately, life isn't meant to be lived alone.
0:19:31 - (Tony Hixon): You mentioned earlier about the COVID pandemic, and that had to teach each of us that we were made for connection. We were made for relationships. We wanted to be with each other, and we couldn't be. Well, retirement can be that. A bit of that way, too. My mom left her friendships at work, and she didn't have that social connection, that social network to be able to continue fun times in her future.
0:19:56 - (Tony Hixon): So replacing those workmates with playmates is a crucial Step. Oh, and by the way, deciding who to leave behind is crucial as well. I mean, bottom line, there's those people who are just those naysayers or everything is horrible, or the world is falling apart and they're very conspiracy theorist or whatever word you want to swap in there. It's okay to leave those people behind. So it's deciding who is going to come alongside you and help support you in your bigger future as well.
0:20:24 - (Doug Jenkins): It would seem to me that this, this really drives home the point, and I think a lot of people struggle with it, myself included, is developing new adult friendships along the way. Like you said, you've got your work friends, we hope we all do, but a lot of times we all struggle to make friends outside of work. And those are really the friendships that are going to sustain you into this retirement stage, I would think that's correct, yeah.
0:20:52 - (Tony Hixon): Yeah. And it's okay for those friends to be family, by the way. So maybe it's the in laws or the brother in laws and the sisters in laws and it's okay for them to be, you know, your grandkids, as they mature and get older, spending quality time with them can, can certainly have that social network, have them included in that social network. It can be good as well.
0:21:13 - (Doug Jenkins): That's good to hear because I plan on beating my grandkids at Madden football when they get old enough.
0:21:18 - (Tony Hixon): So, yeah, that's probably about all you got, you know, Scrabble. No way.
0:21:25 - (Doug Jenkins): Tony, I know you've done a lot of work on the subject. You have a book as well, correct?
0:21:29 - (Tony Hixon): Yeah, yeah, that's right. Tell me a little bit about that. Okay, yeah, sure. Yeah. So In, I guess 2019, I just kind of had a seed planted in me by a good friend of mine that said, you know, you can, you can tell the story one on one a lot, and that's cool, but there's a, there's a book inside you where you can actually reach the masses. And I've never thought myself as an author, let alone all the work that would be involved in publishing a book. But I also knew that in 2019, I was about two years away from the 10 year anniversary, the celebration of my mom's life. So I wanted.
0:22:06 - (Tony Hixon): I decided to draw a line in the sand and commit to putting my learnings into book form. So late 2019, I put pen to paper, or better yet, fingers to a keyboard, and I started pecking away at my manuscript, only to find out in a short few, what, five, six months later, March 2020, Covid would strike and so not only was I imp. You know, implementing COVID policies with the wealth management firm here, but also the fastest bear market in, in US history, navigating that with my clients, all the while continuing my manuscript with that goal of releasing it in 2021. Well, I concluded my 35,000 word manuscript near the end of of 2020 and submitted it to my publisher and I had 28,000 words. And for, for those of you in the audience who wonder if that was a good word count or not, I had no idea. But I knew that I had put a lot of work into it. So 28,000 words to me was, I was super proud.
0:23:05 - (Tony Hixon): And my publisher took a few weeks to read through the manuscript and basically they said great, great story, great content, but this is nothing more than a large pamphlet. You need to write more. My thoughts, my thoughts back to them in order were well screw you and what else could you encourage me to write about? And yeah, I released the book in the extra 7,000 words. So currently it stands at 35,000 words. The extra 7,000 words are Dan the Dentist and part time Patty and Slumping Steve.
0:23:40 - (Tony Hixon): I was able to put characters into my book that really accentuated the points that I was making. So in 2021, in September we released the book Retirement Stepping Stones with a subtitle Find Meaning, Live with Purpose and Leave a Legacy. And what's really exciting about this is my goal in life was to really help others and to honor my mom's legacy. So I our firm and or nor myself, we don't benefit financially from book sales.
0:24:09 - (Tony Hixon): All proceeds from the sale of the book go to the Pam Hickson Memorial Nursing Scholarship Fund that my wife and I set up at the University of Fin that goes to a nursing student who has financial need and good grades. And each year that student scholarship recipient is selected, my wife and I are able to meet with them, tell them mom's story and encourage them in their journey in their healthcare and their healthcare career. So it's been an honor. It's been a few years since it's been released and it's been an Amazon bestseller along the way in five categories and continues to sell well in spite of my lack of Dave Ramsey marketing budget. So it's been fun.
0:24:49 - (Doug Jenkins): Well, we will, we'll help you out in that regard. We'll link to that in the show notes too. So check out the book. Tony, we really appreciate your time today on this. If people don't talk to you on this, maybe they just touch base and they're feeling a Little bit of this or maybe that. It's an eye opening moment for them hearing this. What's the best way to get in touch with you or to learn more?
0:25:11 - (Tony Hixon): Yeah, well, as a result of the success of the book, you know one, one thing I don't know about you Doug, but when I read a book I wow, that's awesome. I set it back on the bookshelf and oftentimes forget what was even inside. So far be it from us to allow our readers to just set the book back up on the bookshelf. We actually wanted to help our readers to develop this process to brainstorm their values and who they are apart from their career.
0:25:39 - (Tony Hixon): And so we hired a life coach. So at our firm we have a life coach that knows nothing about our clients financial lives, our non clients financial lives, that he's simply here to live out my mom's legacy, to help those retire on purpose, for a purpose, and find meaning in their second half of life. So if you head over to hz capital.com coaching you can scroll through and see that Scott Miller, he offers retirement workshops.
0:26:11 - (Tony Hixon): Um, so this is open to the community. This is not just Hicks and Zerker clients and no one else is allowed. This is open to the community where we get together for workshops and he teaches the content. Um, and he. And then ultimately he's also available for private coaching as well. So if a listener really wants to engage with our content and really be helped and how they can make their future bigger than their past.
0:26:34 - (Tony Hixon): Hz capital.com forward/coaching and you'll find all the help they need there.
0:26:40 - (Doug Jenkins): Very good. Tony. Again, we appreciate your time today and looking forward to sharing this one with everybody. Thank you again.
0:26:47 - (Tony Hixon): Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. Have a great day.
0:26:52 - (Doug Jenkins): Certainly a lot to think about here. We've all heard that adage of people who retire and then suddenly it seems like maybe they aged a decade in the span of about a year only because they didn't know what to do with themselves and all the free time they suddenly had. I think no matter what stage of your career that you're in, this is an important thing to think about. Maybe not when you're just starting out, but if you have things that you're passionate about, then probably not a bad idea to think about it a little bit, but it really is something you have to talk through before you step aside from your career, from your business, whatever it is, this is very, very important that you do.
0:27:23 - (Doug Jenkins): Chamber Amplified is a free podcast for the community. Thanks to the investment of members from the Findlay Hancock County Chamber of Commerce because of our robust membership, we're able to focus on providing timely information to the Findlay and Hancock county business community, run leadership programs for adults and teenagers, and be an advocate for the area while also providing tools to help local businesses succeed.
0:27:44 - (Doug Jenkins): And if that sounds like something you want to be a part of, just let me know and we can talk about how an investment in the Chamber not only helps strengthen your business, but the community as a whole. That'll do it for this week's episode. If you have ideas for topics to cover on future episodes, send me an email d. Jenkins@finleyhancockchamber.com thanks again for listening. We'll see you next time on Chamber Amplified. From the Findlay Hancock County Chamber of Commerce.