Revelation Within On the Go!
Embracing Grace: Heather Creekmore's Healing Journey
Have you ever found yourself in the mirror's reflection, wrestling with thoughts about your body that just don't align with your spiritual beliefs? Heather Creekmore, author and host of the "Compared to Who" podcast, joined us on "Revelation Within on the Go" to share her raw and real journey through body image battles, disordered eating, and the quest for cultural beauty standards that often veer away from our true selves and Christian principles.
Throughout our conversation, Heather peels back the layers of her personal struggles, offering an intimate look at the mental tug-of-war she experienced in her pursuit of being the "best self" for God. As we trace her path from a young girl to a woman of faith, we uncover the transformative power of surrender. Heather's story, rife with the complexities of aligning diet culture with health and self-acceptance, reminds us that renewing our minds and engaging with intuitive eating can lead to a place where fear and control around food finally release their grip.
In the end, Heather's insights shine a light on the societal pressures of body image and the idols of control and approval that can distort our self-perception. Her experiences form a beacon of hope, guiding us toward finding peace with our bodies and eating habits. As we bid farewell to Heather, we're left with a sense of gratitude for her wisdom and a renewed sense of encouragement to continue on our own paths to a more authentic and grace-filled life. Join us on this episode for a heartfelt exploration of these deep-seated challenges and the healing journey that lies ahead.
Ashley T. Lee Podcast will cover many life issues such as overcoming stress, anxiety...
Listen on: Apple Podcasts
Learn more about our Revelation Within Community: https://www.revelationwithin.org
Have you ever found yourself in the mirror's reflection, wrestling with thoughts about your body that just don't align with your spiritual beliefs? Heather Creekmore, author and host of the "Compared to Who" podcast, joined us on "Revelation Within on the Go" to share her raw and real journey through body image battles, disordered eating, and the quest for cultural beauty standards that often veer away from our true selves and Christian principles.
Throughout our conversation, Heather peels back the layers of her personal struggles, offering an intimate look at the mental tug-of-war she experienced in her pursuit of being the "best self" for God. As we trace her path from a young girl to a woman of faith, we uncover the transformative power of surrender. Heather's story, rife with the complexities of aligning diet culture with health and self-acceptance, reminds us that renewing our minds and engaging with intuitive eating can lead to a place where fear and control around food finally release their grip.
In the end, Heather's insights shine a light on the societal pressures of body image and the idols of control and approval that can distort our self-perception. Her experiences form a beacon of hope, guiding us toward finding peace with our bodies and eating habits. As we bid farewell to Heather, we're left with a sense of gratitude for her wisdom and a renewed sense of encouragement to continue on our own paths to a more authentic and grace-filled life. Join us on this episode for a heartfelt exploration of these deep-seated challenges and the healing journey that lies ahead.
Ashley T. Lee Podcast will cover many life issues such as overcoming stress, anxiety...
Listen on: Apple Podcasts
Learn more about our Revelation Within Community: https://www.revelationwithin.org
Hi and welcome to Revelation Within on the Go. I'm Heidi Bilesma-Epperson, one of your hosts and the owner and lead coach of the Revelation Within Ministry.
Speaker 2:And I'm Christina Montlini, your other host, also a Revelation Within coach and Heidi's partner in all things Revelation Within. We are so excited to invite you to this very special episode of Revelation Within on the Go.
Speaker 1:I'm laughing because we have an audience right here from Center Heather Creek where it's Wednesday Hi.
Speaker 3:Heather hey it's great to be with you all. I'm glad you all are free to have so much fun.
Speaker 2:Before that you're here, heather.
Speaker 1:Welcome Now, heather is a podcaster of the Compared to who podcast and she is well. Tell us about the thing that you did on Netflix, because that's really fun.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, yes, so way back when season one, episode one of a little show on Netflix called Nailed it, and if you're completely unfamiliar with it.
Speaker 3:It's a show where they set people up, so they set up bad bakers to do impossible baking tasks, and we originally recorded that show as episode three, but my cake was so bad that they moved that show up to the pilot and you can now if you get an error message on Netflix. So it's been like I guess it came out in 2018, I think it's been like seven years. If you get an error message on Netflix, you see my cake fail and my red fondant stain hand on your error message on Netflix, so you know something to look for, maybe. But yes, I had the opportunity to do that several years ago.
Speaker 1:It was a great time, that's fun, yeah, and the episode you can watch it. It's funny as all get out. And most recently, heather wrote the 40 day body image workbook and I'm excited to pick her brain a little bit today and hear her heart for you all as well. So welcome, welcome, yes.
Speaker 2:Welcome to be here so.
Speaker 1:Heather, let's start off with what is your background with this issue that faces many of us all of us probably listening with food, eating, body image issues. What's your own background?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I wish I could say that, like this was just a dream of mine to do this someday. But I'd be totally lying, because nothing would have terrified me more through my 20s and 30s than to think about that someday I would be on podcasts writing books about my body image issue. So no one's more surprised that I'm doing this than I am. But I, you know, this is something I struggled with. I grew up in church. I went to Christian schools, christian college, christian graduate school. I was really on track to have kind of more political career. I ran on profit.
Speaker 3:I was in that kind of world and believing that I had the God and Jesus thing covered, right, yeah, I was a Christian. I wanted what the Lord wanted for my life, and it was almost like y'all, like I had two missions. Right, I had my mission as, like, a believer and follower of Jesus Christ, and you know, lord, what do you have for me? And I surrender all. And then I had this other mission, this top secret mission that no one really knew about except for me. And that top secret mission which I chose to accept was to be, as I'm going to say, culturally beautiful as possible. And I'm using the word culturally in there, right, because that's changed. Yeah Right, when I first started doing this, no one wanted a, but I actually eventually became a fitness instructor as kind of part of my journey. My quest and I was helping women work their butts off, which it just makes me laugh now that women want butts, I'm like oh, I feel so bad for all those women that I helped them work their butt off.
Speaker 2:Because now they're so cool, that's so true.
Speaker 3:But it was a secret goal of mine to look better. And really I had conflated both of my missions, right, because I really kind of thought that maybe it was God asking me to get my body to be better, right, and I thought I'd be a better ambassador for him, like if I were hot, people would be attracted to Jesus, right. So, so God needed me to be as thin as possible and as good looking as possible for his kingdom and his glory. And yet, and yet really, if I think about it, that secret mission kept me focused on myself, always counting the calories or following whatever plan was popular. I was doing all the workouts, switching from whatever workout was now so out of date. Now you have to go to spin. Okay, now you got to go to Zubin, like you know, just following the workout trends, following the fitness trends, taking the pills, whatever supplement or pills were popular, you know, trying all the things to be quote, unquote my best self. And although I would have never actually used those words, I probably would have told you I was trying to be my healthiest, right, and it was my responsibility to take care of my temple and to be the healthiest possible, which really meant the thinnest possible and it was never enough, right.
Speaker 3:I mean, I look at the pictures. So my husband, I got married at 31. So I'm not talking about pictures from like age 20. I'm talking about pictures me and my 30s. I look at the picture of me at age 31. And that was a very, very thin, sick woman who had an eating disorder and had no idea she had an eating disorder because she wasn't throwing up and she wasn't anorexically thin. And yet I think about my mental condition at that point and how, even on my honeymoon I mean it's amazing, I'm still married, y'all. Because I was like the crazy, like you think I'm too fat. I'm like I know that we're married. You think I'm too fat, you think I'm not good enough. And I look at these pictures and I'm like that woman said that Like what in the world was going on for me mentally. So, yes, I've been on a journey.
Speaker 3:I'd say my issues started about third grade. I remember thinking in the third grade that my legs were too fat and because all the women around me dieted and all the women around me talked about losing weight and what they needed to do to look better, like it was a very normal part of my experience, to just do those things. And it really wasn't until I was in my late 30s that God took a hold of me and said nope, we're going to do something different here. He showed me kind of where I had missed it and from there led me to write a book, and that led to another book, and that led to a podcast and a couple more books. And here we are. Somehow. This is what I talk about every day.
Speaker 1:That's my journey. I'm really glad that you do, Heather, because you bring a joy and a humor to something that is so serious.
Speaker 1:Because when you really stop and think about it. We do. We spend ourselves in our emotions, our mind, our spiritual walk with God. I mean, it feels like we spend ourselves and our finances, certainly on this pursuit. You know, as though on this elevated platform is oh thin, you know, and I've been there too and I landed on this amazing size and it was very eating disorder. I exercised to get rid of whatever I had eaten and was very thin. People asking me if I was too thin and don't you think you've done enough? Never enough, never enough. Yeah, it's crazy, it really is.
Speaker 2:Okay, so what do you think, looking back and with what you've learned, what you know now, what was at the core of those issues that started in third grade? What was at the core?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so the core for me was idolatry, something I would have never guessed could have even been at the core because, like I said, raising a Christian home, christian schools, church three times a week we didn't have any idols in my house. No Buddha statue. You know, you go into the Chinese restaurant, you look the other way, so you don't look at Buddha. Not my problem. Like I can work on the rest of that list. But idolatry, I'm good and I heard some teaching when my husband was preparing to become a pastor and was listening to some teaching. And I heard this teaching on modern day idolatry and I heard Dr Tim Keller say that an idol is anything that you expect to save you, anything you were looking to in this life that you think will bring you joy, peace, rest, satisfaction. And I heard the Holy Spirit whisper to me, not audibly, but you know he spoke to my heart. Heather, this is your body problem. It's not going to be fixed by changing your body. This is your body problem. And it was so jarring to me y'all like so jarring Because at that point I was probably 37, for let's, let's call it 30 years.
Speaker 3:I have been trying to fix my body to make it all better. I believed this lie and really it's a life culture, right? I believe this lie that there was a position or place I could get my body to where I would no longer suffer. I could get to a size, I could get to a shape, I could get the hair right, I could get all the things in order and then suffering would be gone. And it just wasn't true. Because I had hit the size, I had hit the weight and you know, like Heidi said, it's never enough. It's like just five more pounds, maybe, or oh well, you know, maybe it's because this part isn't toned yet, or maybe it's because my hair still wants to be frizzy. In the Texas humidity. There was always something else. It was never enough. And then, at the same time, like just to be real, y'all like bodies, my body's changing.
Speaker 3:I had four babies in my thirties, so it's like it's a moving target. It's like, oh, what happened there? You don't know what, where to start with the fixing right. And now I mean now, aging is like a real. I mean a completely different thing, but it's like it's this, it's this idol that promises us freedom, joy, peace, rest from weight loss or from changing our bodies, and we go along with it, we follow it, we chase it and we hope that it's going to work.
Speaker 3:And I'll tell you, as a coach myself, I talk to women every single week who tell them the day's vaccine story yeah, I did lose the weight, you know. But you know, and I think if I could just go back and lose that weight again then I would feel great. But wait a second here. When you lost the weight, did you feel great, did you? You know you loved your body. Then you were totally set like body positive, body confident. Well, no, not really. I still struggle, wait, what you still struggled. Then you know, and just kind of like, recognizing this idol is not going to let you off the hook. Right, there's no place that you can arrive where you will be free from this idols demands. And that's why we look at Hollywood celebrities. Right, it's easy to judge them and be like, oh, I can't believe you got the seventh surgery, like, oh, boy, you should stop to number five. That's when you look back, like the only difference between being them is is financial resources.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:It's the same heart motivation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it really is. Wow, Thanks, Heather. So how and when did you start resolving these issues? You mentioned that God made it clear through his spirit that this was an idol. What did you do about it? It was your, I'm assuming. If you were like me and like many others, your world kind of revolved around this and then suddenly there's a vacuum there If you don't keep doing it. I think your book even addresses that. Your most recent book, the most recent one of many.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it does. It does I do talk about, like, what do you do with all the free time? And for me, like, just to be clear, it was a process, right, I think step one was recognizing that I had syndicant vests and really in that there was some messiness too, because I was a good girl, right, like I wasn't doing drugs, like I wasn't doing anything. Like really in the big sin list, right, like this is just like a little thing that really no one even knew about but me, just a little heart thing. But on the outside, you know, I'm about to become a pastor's wife and I'm just trying to like, look like I have it all together. So it's just this little, this little issue thing. I have just, you know, on the side, not that big of a deal, and God really had to work on my heart and show me really how much of a Pharisee I'd become, believing that it was the outside that mattered more than my heart posture. Right, believing that my idolatry actually was a big deal to him, that I was breaking his heart just as if I was doing any other sin. Right, that my idolatry was actually adultery, like I was cheating on him. Right, like, yeah, I said I loved God, but what I really loved was weight loss and trying to get a better body. And that goal, that rush, that excitement of ooh, what would it feel like to just lose a couple more pounds. Right, that was my true love. And recognizing that wasn't an overnight thing, you know, that was a months and years of grieving kind of my whole, who I had become as an image, right, like, what was I trying to show people, you know, and I'd say, locked and entangled in that was my perfectionism, my self-righteousness, right, because my husband wasn't a believer until he was 27. And so we meet at 31. He's been a believer for just a handful of years, going into ministry and I, you know, essentially, you know, was raised.
Speaker 3:I said the sinner's prayer, like age six, let's put it that way and thinking that I was like, better than him, even Right, like, and I hadn't done anything wrong, but he had the sinful past and you know, all of those things kind of were all intermeshed in God, untangling my image issues, and so then from there, god couldn't touch my food until he touched my body. Image, like there's, I was not letting that go. Yeah, like, okay, like God, and even in my first book. It's kind of reflected of where I'm at. I'm totally feeling freedom as I write that first book around body image but not around food yet. And then you get embarrassed like, oh, I put that out there, okay, whatever, but it's been a years long journey and then even coming to intuitive eating, you know, that really is just like a two or three year, a newer thing for me in realizing all of the bondage and entanglements I had around food for so, so long yeah, wow, thank you for that.
Speaker 2:I know that so many people listening, and certainly Heidi and I, can relate to so much of what you're saying. So thank you for your honesty. Appreciate that so much so. You mentioned praying the sinner's prayer at six Is that when you came to know the Lord. Talk to us a little bit about your relationship with the Lord.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so you know, I don't know that it was six and Maldemon five. Actually I think I joke that it was before I could tie my shoes. So maybe it was three or four, and then I went to kinds of churches where sometimes on Sunday nights there'd be an altar call, and so I would just, you know, say it again and again, just in case, just make sure it was covered.
Speaker 3:But you know, in high school I vividly remember the Lord talking to me about and this is going to sound so kind of funny, but I'm a type A personality and you know, I think natural born leader, if you will firstborn and I remember God kind of talking to me about this reality of hey, heather, it's not like you go where you want to go and you take me with you. You actually need to let me leave, and that was a revelation, right. And still, I think sometimes my tendency is like, oh, I'm going to do this thing, come on, god, let's go. Is this really where you're leading me? I'm doing it for you? Right, exactly Good intentions.
Speaker 3:At 16, god showed me that I was going to marry a pastor someday. But I lived through my 20s not meeting any men to date that were going in the ministry and kind of wondering like, well, maybe I just heard wrong. My best friend, who was at the same youth conference, kind of got the same message and she did marry a pastor, like right after college, and so I just figured, okay, well, maybe maybe it's for her and I missed it. It kind of bounced off me or something. But you know, but my husband, I married a marine fighter pilot who on our second date said hey, I'm not going to stay in the military forever. You know, what would you think about maybe me going in the ministry?
Speaker 3:And I was like oh goodness, here it is. I guess this is going to happen. So I have felt like I was a quote unquote good Christian, if you will, for decades. And then it really interrupted life, as usual, when God showed me the idolatry and really made me recognize that I had totally misunderstood his grace, like I would have sang Amazing Grace or his grace is enough, but I really didn't think I needed it because I could be good enough. Right, like his grace is for those other people that couldn't get their acts together. That's kind of good. So, thanks God, and just really recognizing you know my own, my own need for a savior and my complete inability to save myself changed I would say I would say everything in my relationship and walk with the Lord Wow.
Speaker 1:Thanks for sharing that. Yeah, thank you. That would be intense, though, to be on your second date here that he said he's going in the ministry and then you're thinking this is the man I'm marrying on the third date.
Speaker 3:Yep, that's exactly what happened.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you've shared a little bit about how this was a progressive and has been and continues to be, I'm sure, a progressive journey. Was there a point in time, though, you mentioned inviting God into the body image or him kind of inserting himself into it? I guess I should say what did you do with the food and eating part of it? At what point did you open your hands to him over that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I don't know that I remember an exact moment. I just remember feeling conviction around dieting, right where it was like, oh wait, a second here Am I like the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and again, expecting different. Like, like do I, you know, and part of it relates to, kind of, I have this little bit that I do from the book where I kind of just talk about how in the 1980s, you know, special K was going to make us all skinny. In the 1990s, I was eating plain bagels, spraying quote unquote butter on them because real butter had too much fat, and plain turkey because that was the only like lean meat that didn't have to. Like trying to eat fat free and then eating like tubfuls of fat free frozen yogurt. I didn't have any fat in it, so it didn't count. So I mean, that was my diet in the 90s. Right, being fat free, I would not have touched an avocado. But in 20, like, let's say, 2012, when I'm only eating packaged protein bars because they are healthier for me than a banana or an apple that has way too many carbs in it, I'm doing that. And I remember standing in my kitchen with the tub of coconut oil from Costco and like a stick of butter and some like cocoa powder and like a whole bunch of nuts, and I was supposed to like put it all together and make these fat bombs right, because in 2012, fat made you skinny, which was a little jarring for someone who lived through the 90s, thinking that fat would make me fat. But now fat was going to make me skinny and I remember making those things. They were disgusting and I think I was done.
Speaker 3:After that, I was like this is kind of stupid. I wasted a ton of money on this thing. Good aren't good. I don't like eating them and I don't really feel good eating so much fat. Like that's kind of making my stomach a little upset and like what, what am I doing here? Like always doing the next thing. Where has that gotten me? And so it was. You know, it's kind of just a slow peel of the layers, like the food rules. There's some part of me. This is just something guys been working on the last couple of years. There were so many food rules that I just I think we just accumulate them right.
Speaker 3:Like Oprah said this in 1987, I logged that away. You know, read this in a magazine in 1992, logged that away and they just keep stacking up without really being conscious of where they came from anymore, right, but I just remember like walking to the kitchen so many times and like I'm hungry, oh there's nothing I can eat because I'm supposed to be gluten-free. So all of that's I can eat, okay, I go bananas, apples too many carbs, candy, that nuts I, you know they're too high histamine, like there was something wrong with every food, yeah, yeah, and I was like this just can't be the way, like am I just not supposed to eat, right, and you know, and then I'm, and then I'm just drinking smoothies, protein powder smoothies, like that's what I'm supposed to live on. And so it's been kind of a frustration of because I have had some health issues in there. I've been 40. I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's, which is autoimmune thyroid disease. I had to stop exercising hard because my adrenals were were kind of getting tired because I was running on cortisol instead of running on energy from food, right, and you know.
Speaker 3:So I had some like jarring diagnoses, slash, you know, health things going on and I'm trying to be healthier but recognizing like wait, I can't be healthier, not being able to eat anything, and so really that process has just kind of looked like me really learning not to be afraid, yo, and I just I had to think like this can't be the way it's supposed to be.
Speaker 3:Like if God made my body to run on food, what Like, what's going on here? Really, that was kind of me starting to untangle what honestly y'all I think was fear. Yeah, I had so much fear around eating certain things and I was a dietitian friend of mine, tracy Brown, that kind of pointed it out to me. But the more afraid I was of these foods, actually the more physical of reaction I would have to them. And as I got freer with my eating, as I embraced intuitive eating and started trying foods that maybe previously I would have been completely off limits for me for one reason or another, I started to release some of that fear and recognize like food isn't something that I'm supposed to be afraid of, food is a good gift from God. Like, what am I doing? Being scared of thin mint Girl Scout cookies?
Speaker 1:Like that's kind of ridiculous, isn't it Like that?
Speaker 3:little green box is going to, like you know, jump out and get me. But I had had a philosophy of trying not to eat for so long that those thin mints were out to get me because they were going to make me eat them. And then just recognizing how distorted that was, although very normal, like everyone listening can probably completely relate to that. So there's no shame or judgment coming from me, because that was my normal, that was my reality. But it's not freedom and I don't think it's what God has for us. There is a much better way, healthier way to live with food. We don't have to be afraid of it.
Speaker 3:And as I started to release that fear, it is true that foods that at one point would have made me choke or I couldn't even swallow it, or later I'd be throwing up, probably because I was just so afraid that I had eaten that thing that my body was like no, you're not going to keep it, it's going. I'm okay with them now. Yeah, eat them now. It's amazingly not like as scary as it used to be. Good job, but it's been a process.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Thank you, heather. I just had some thin mints the other day. My husband brought them home and my first thought was these used to be evil and they're not anymore. And we enjoyed a couple of them and he said I don't really like these. I said they're not that great, are they anyway? Whatever, that's so funny that you mentioned the thin mints, because it is Girl Scout time right now, anyway. Okay, so in Revelation, within which was then within so much of what we talk about and work on and love, is mind renewal. So and I know you know in reading your book, you had a whole chapter on it and it was kind of woven throughout here and there. So I would love to just ask and I know that you know those who are listening would would probably love to know what does mind renewal, the renewing of the mind, what does that look like in your life, in your day to day life? Tell us what it is to you, kind of what it looks like, if you would. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I think what has helped me in the arena of thinking about the renewing of the mind is this concept that my pastor preached a couple years ago so it wasn't like it came from church and the concept that he preached was that we are of another kingdom. And so renewing our mind although there is a taking thoughts captive and, you know, changing the way we think about things, kind of on a on a micro level, renewing our mind is really a macro level activity where it's thinking about myself as being like from a completely different kingdom. And so I start my 40 day workbook talking about how, like Abraham was called to a journey to a foreign land. And that's really what it is when you live outside of diet culture, right, when you stop thinking like, eh, real, they're person in diet culture, you are a foreigner, you are an exile, you are strange, right.
Speaker 1:Like.
Speaker 3:I can't believe you're going to eat. That. That's weird, you know, but I think, when it comes to renewing our mind, if we can keep that perspective and wait a second, I am a foreigner, I'm not supposed to think like everyone around me and my thoughts are supposed to be different because I'm not of this world. Right, this is just the warm up. Right, my real life is later. Right, like this, this is not the party. I don't have to make this the best thing ever, like I can be obedient to God and enjoy life, because, you know, I think his grace is honest in every area, but it's it's not all or nothing here. Right, it's all or nothing for eternity.
Speaker 3:Keeping that thought front and present can help me as I make decisions day to day, like even okay, let's talk about the temptation that we all face to try another diet. Right, because you go off diets for a while, you're like oh, I'm done with dieting, completely done with dieting. You go off diets for a while and then, oh goodness, you see an ad or something and it's like well, maybe just that one, maybe I should. I've not heard of that one before. Maybe I should try that one and you're tempted, right.
Speaker 3:But then I think when you have a macro level view of renewing your mind, you can think but wait a second, what will that get me? Okay, maybe, maybe that'll lose me a couple pounds now, of course, now, knowing all we know about diets like, but I'll probably get it back later. You know, or at least maybe through the aging process, my body's going to change again later. So I can't keep that body. Even if I become an after picture, I can't keep that body forever. Like it's going to require more than that. So I can keep that in mind.
Speaker 3:But then I also think, like, what's going to cost me investment wise? Like not just how much the plan costs, but like is that really the best use of my time? To go back to having to think about food all day and play in my food all day and, you know, worry about my exercise all day? Like, is that really where God wants me to spend my time from day to day? What is this going to cost me? And then, what is the value of that to eternity? Right, like there's not going to be a scale with the gates of heaven. There's no way in. Like Weight Watchers, right? Like, oh, good job, Come on in. No, but when God's when God's handing out crowns. I don't think there's a crown for weight loss. I don't. I don't think that's a category. And so what is pursuing another diet going to distract me from where I miss out?
Speaker 3:on doing exactly what God created me to do and what he has from you, and maybe that's just as simple as loving him and loving others, but I don't want to miss out on that. No, I love that.
Speaker 1:However, thank you. What do you do, heather, when you stumble a little bit in some way? Maybe you overeat, or maybe you find yourself with a dieting mentality. Thought that has been very not present for a while and suddenly it's there. What do you do with your failures and your mess ups, your slip, stumbles, slides and falls?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I'm absolutely not perfect, so that's absolutely a regular part of my journey. And I recognize even just even recently I recognized that I had a doctor's appointment and we had a whole fun, we had a wait discussion always a good time and I recognize kind of subconsciously that the next day I wasn't eating as much. Right, like I had kind of subconsciously gone right back to restrictive behaviors. Yeah, not like like I didn't sign up for any diet plan the next morning, but just it was in there and that, and so as I did that and I like found myself kind of not eating the way I've been eating like through the day, and then at night I found myself my thing is chocolate chips, okay, and I buy Costco bags of chocolate chips. It's probably not a wise idea, but we've got a big family and so you know everything comes from Costco and those little ones are pretty expensive. So Costco is a much better deal. But anyway, I've got Costco bags of chocolate chips.
Speaker 3:And I found myself going back, and going back, and going back, and going back and I was like, what is this? Yes, it's just normal for me really most of my life, but like, really, what is this? And it was like, okay, well, part of it is I was restricting all day long, right. So my body's just hungry, like I hadn't given it what it needed all day long, and my body's okay, we ran on empty all day. So now you're going to eat and you're going to eat high fat, calorie food so that we can feel better. So I'm like part of it is just physiology, right. And you know, I think like too often in the church we've categorized that kind of behavior as something sinful or like a character flaw, like, you know, self discipline, right. But it's like, no, that was physiology, that was a hungry body wanting to be restored to a place where it felt safe again with food, and so there's that. But then there's also this piece of like the shame, right, like I'm kind of ashamed, like why do I have to go back and get a handful of chocolate chips? Five times, you know. And then you see the calorie number, right.
Speaker 3:And those of us who were programmed by calories is like, oh whoa, I didn't know there's that many calories. I started doing math and you know like the spiral continues, right. And then it's like, oh well, how long would it take me, you know, on the spin bike, to burn off that five Like. It just is like, whoa, where am I going? Yeah, stop. Like it's just one day, yeah, it's one day, yeah, right, and there's grace for that. It's not sin, right, it's really not Right.
Speaker 3:It was a physiological response to being underfed all day. My heart was not like you know, I think the gluttonous heart is a greedy heart that is looking to food for salvation or hoarding food so no one else can have any Like there's. There's different aspects to gluttony that are not, I think, what we've been told. And my heart, and going back, I didn't have a heart posture, going back to those chocolate chips, it was just, it was kind of an automated response, right, there was nothing going on in my heart, it wasn't a sinful. I'm turning to food instead of turning to Jesus.
Speaker 3:No, I was just hungry. And so when I can write it off, to like, oh, I was hungry and I ate, okay, could I've made a better food choice, maybe. But honestly, at that point I was just so hungry that that's what my body went to. And so when I can quickly move on from that, not feel shame and guilt over that, I'm just like, okay, well, that's no big deal, so you did it. Okay, tomorrow's another day and it's going to be fine, right, and so, yeah, so I mean, that's probably more than more than you asked for on that question.
Speaker 1:No, that's a great example. Absolutely, and you and Christina share that in common. That chocolate chip thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if you're like chocolate chips, I'm like, okay. I definitely have a good story, though, about what my connection is to chocolate chips. That has to do with my mom, and so there, I do go to chocolate chips for comfort. Yes, that's been like my whole life, and so I've had to take a really good look at that one for me, because it goes pretty deep.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I would say, for me that would have been one thing I would have never been allowed to touch, because bags of chocolate chips were only for making cookies, they were not a snack item. And so, like at some point in my adult life when I realized, wait a second, I buy the chocolate chips, there's no one here to tell me what to do, I can eat the chocolate chips. It was a little bit of a rebellion. I think that's turned up in there.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, definitely. Thank you for sharing that. Appreciate it. So let's switch gears a little bit, and this is something that you talk about a lot in your book. So tell us about how you think that God sees you and how does that affect your body image. How does knowing how God sees you, how does that change that whole thing for you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, I think we have to have a better theology of our bodies. And so, especially the generation that follows me, millennials, and then the Gen Z, they haven't been taught that they were created. By and large they're on church, far more on church than Gen Xers and older, and so they kind of believe that they're just here on accident. They're happy, bob Ross, happy accidents. But when you do not believe that you were created on purpose, for a purpose that really distorts the way you see your body and that really puts the body into a place where it's like Well, it's kind of my responsibility, right, like I've got to make sure that my body, like looks a certain way so I'm culturally accepted, or, you know, functions a certain way, right, like it puts way too much emphasis on the body so that you can back to, like not teaching creationism, but, like you can, survival of the fittest so you can survive, right. And so it's understanding, first, that God made us on purpose, for a purpose Just as intentional as he was in the book of Kings with how the temple should be designed, right, like I mean, I don't know when I get to that, my Bible reading plan, I'm like well, this is a little boring, like do I really care how many cubits the logs were? That doesn't help me today, right, but he was super intentional. I mean just even throughout, like Exodus and the early books of the Old Testament. It's like super intentional, super specific, right, like that's who God is, right. I wanted to believe that my body was just like on an assembly line randomly in heaven and like a squirted a soul in and then dropped it down. It's like whoopsie, sorry about your thighs, but everything else is fine, just go on. Right, like no, that's ridiculous. Right, super intentional with the way he made us. So I think, first of all, it's believing that, yes, so when he sees me, he's not disappointed. Yes, he knows he created me this way. Now, yes, we live in a sinful, fallen world and there's things that we face that interrupt business as usual on our insides, right, and that shows up on our outsides. But that's not failure, right. And even if it was, even if I'm facing something and to some degree this is my story, because I really do believe I have thyroid issues because of all my dieting, because whenever you restrict calories, you slow down your thyroid, and so I do think that to some degree, I created my own thyroid mess, but even in that, his grace is enough, right? Like?
Speaker 3:I read a quote the other day that it was, like you know, thankfully God factored in your own stupidity when he decided what he had for you to do. Like, I take great comfort in that. It's like, yes, yes, he knew he's not surprised and yeah, okay, so maybe I have a sluggish thyroid, but he's still using it because I'm able to be here to talk to y'all about my story and my history of dieting, right? Yes, so, believing that he's not disappointed in me, believing that he's not mad at me, oh, I love that. That. He's a good, he's a good father and he doesn't want me to go get myself all fixed up and cleaned up and then I'll be ready for him. He's just standing there with his arms wide open saying just come to me. I already accept you, I already see you, I know you, I love you. Like there is nothing you have done that has made you too far gone from me, so just come.
Speaker 2:Yes, that is beautiful, heather. Thank you.
Speaker 1:I just want to sit in it for a minute. Oh, that's lovely. Thank you, Heather. Have you found are you at a place where you feel like you are at peace with food, eating and your body on this journey? And, Gus, how do you share that?
Speaker 3:with others. Yeah Well, I want to be really transparent. I am doing well with peaceful eating, but I still have esophagus issues. I have a sonophilic esophagus and perhaps some other things going on that they haven't figured out yet. But so every once in a while I will eat something and it won't go down, and so it's jolting and jarring when that happens, because I think we're always looking for the answer to be healed and like check the box and I can move on and not have to deal with this anymore.
Speaker 3:And that's kind of what diets promise us If you just do the diet right, then you will be free as an after picture and you'll never struggle again. And so I just want to be real. Real in that I am doing great with intuitive eating, but I still have this problem and I still have to kind of figure out okay, was it something I ate? Was it just seasonal allergies that like choked me up because my histamine level is too high? Is it just that I'm super stressed and I found myself going back to some of those dieting kind of thoughts, right, Like ooh, do I not? Should I never eat soy again? Is that what it?
Speaker 1:was.
Speaker 3:I feel like, for women on an intuitive eating or peaceful eating journey, it's okay to recognize that life is messy and, just like no diet is clean and neat and perfect, even intuitive eating is going to be messy. It is freeing, though, and it is good to be able to think about my food and my body from a place of peace and acceptance and maybe even a little bit of joy every now and then. Right Then from a place of shame and guilt and condemnation and really frustration, yeah we've often said God didn't put food on this planet to torment us.
Speaker 1:It's intended by him to be a beautiful gift, really, so thank you for that.
Speaker 2:When people come to you, as they often do with us, with old, awful destructive patterns, behaviors that have trapped them for years and years, how do you lead them on a path of breaking free from those old patterns that feel impossible to break?
Speaker 3:out of. I think one of the things I do is we try to figure out where it came from, yes, like where it starts. And then I actually just recently have started doing more healing prayer kind of activities, right, where it's like oh, is this like a memory that really needs God to come in and touch this memory, because this memory is so strong and you're so attached to this traumatic thing that happened, you know, and in some cases it's referring people to trauma therapy, like that sort of thing. Right, can we get to the root easily, simply without all of that stuff? Sometimes we can. And then finding out like what are the fears is what it feels like it comes down to most of the time.
Speaker 1:I don't know if y'all would agree.
Speaker 3:But it's like, what are you afraid of? Like what's going to happen if this thing that you're working so hard to not have happened actually happens? Right, like it's gaining the weight or it's never losing the weight? Right, like what's going to happen then? And just kind of exploring the fear side of it and recognizing, right, the fears never from the Lord and then kind of questioning the idols and I like to talk about that a lot, you know, because a lot of times, yeah, okay, there's a body image idol, but someday a book will be published on this. They don't want it right now, but someday, someday they're going to want it.
Speaker 3:But you know, I think the control idol and the approval idol are always there with the body image idol. So I've never met a woman who has body image issues that doesn't also struggle with control to some degree and approval. And I think to me those are like the three legs of a stool that hold up this idol of self. Really, right, because when we control things, it's because my way is best, my way is right. I'm not going to be safe if you don't do it my way. When we went approval, it's because I want you to like me, I want to know I'm accepted, like please don't reject me, I can't handle the rejection. You know, please like me, I'm going to do these things to you, like me. And then our body images are just so intertwined with both of those things. So getting them to see these other things right, recognize this really doesn't have much to do with food at all.
Speaker 3:Right, right, food is not central to these problems. We feel like they're central to these problems and everything closer tells us that they're not these problems. But food is not really my biggest issue. My biggest issue is this need for you to like me and to feel like I'll never be rejected. And then I can kind of take that back to like oh well, maybe that comes from this thing that happened to me in high school, where I was rejected by this, you know, group of cheerleaders like and maybe this connects to this thing that happened in childhood and it's like oh, there's been this pattern of like Heather gets rejected if and so Heather's going to make sure. I know it's weird to talk about yourself in the third person, so sorry about that.
Speaker 3:Heather's going to make sure that she doesn't get rejected again because of this, these three or four rejections, and so Heather's going to make sure that she has a body that would never be rejected, like you would never reject her. And then it's like as I walk with clients, it's like but is that possible, right? Because I know lots of beautiful women that have been broken up with or had their husbands cheat on them. I have been permanently scarred by and maybe in a good way what happened to Hugh Grant and Elizabeth Hurley in the 1990s. I don't know if you remember, but it was the year that Elizabeth Hurley was named the most beautiful woman in the world.
Speaker 3:Well, that same year, hugh Grant cheated on her with a prostitute in the back of a car and there are pictures all over the tabloids and the prostitute like she wasn't cute, Okay, like just, you know, keeping it real, she was.
Speaker 3:She wasn't anything compared to Elizabeth Hurley physically and I remember thinking like, wait a second here if he would go do that with her. If Elizabeth Hurley doesn't have a chance of keeping her man because she's so beautiful, do any of us have a chance? You know, and I remember kind of processing that even things like that rattle these belief systems we have where we've told ourselves there is a size I can get to where my husband will never look at porn again. You know, there is a shape I can get to where the women at church will always appreciate me and ask me to do more things and love me. Right, no, there's no size or weight that can promise you that. And so, recognizing that, wait a second. The other faulty belief I have there is that my body is what makes me valuable to people and that's just not true. You're right, Right, and we all know a beautiful woman and you're like, yeah, she's so beautiful and I really wouldn't want to be friends with her.
Speaker 3:But we, but we all also know someone who is loving and kind and generous, and we can't wait to spend more time with them, and maybe they would never be on television or in a magazine, but we are drawn to them and so we all kind of prove the point that we're more than just our bodies. Yes, and yet we let culture convince us that really what's valuable about us is the way we look on the outside and what size we wear.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Heather, I appreciate what you said about not equating weight loss with closeness with God, but I also know that some people find an intimacy with God through their desperation. At first it's desperation to lose weight. It becomes another kind of desperation. So has your relationship with God deepened through this journey that you've been on for so many years? How so.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely, because, like I mentioned earlier, you know, just recognizing that I've been a Pharisee right Like I was really about my, you know, good Christian girl, good Christian woman image. But the truth is it was only when I was depressed because a guy broke up with me or, you know, was having struggles at work, that's when I needed God, like it wasn't, my relationship with him was not super consistent. And so just seeing my Phariseeical nature and recognizing, like some of the lyrics to those songs about you know, I can't think of it right now but, like you know, I need you every hour, I need you Right Like I think the way I lived most of my life was I need you. If I come across a hard hour, I need you, and instead transitioning to like, oh no, wow, I'm really a lot more broken and sinful and messed up than.
Speaker 3:I ever recognize. And so, yes, I need you every hour. I need you, you know, kind of shifting my heart posture to that.
Speaker 2:So if you could leave us with one thing all of us, you know, listening, everyone listening one thing that we could kind of take away the most important thing on your heart to share, what would that be?
Speaker 3:You know, I think the most important thing is to believe that this is something you can be free from. The enemy lies. To every woman I've ever worked with, and you probably hear it to all the time.
Speaker 3:The enemy's number one lie in this arena is that everyone else can be free, but you can't, right? So make sure you don't invest, because it's not going to work for you. Like nothing else does work for you, so this isn't going to work for you either. Because you are special and the enemy doesn't mean that in a kind way you are. You are special and it's not going to work for you, like they're different than you and it's just a lie. It is just a lie that keeps us in bondage and keeps us stuck and keeps us from getting.
Speaker 3:We need help in this area, right, like I have no idea how I navigated my way without help. I really don't. I really wish I had had help. I mean that's why I wrote a book. So I was like I think people need help, so, but I think it's one of those areas where there's so much shame around it.
Speaker 3:And then the enemy like comes on with that message of you you're never going to be free. There's so much shame, you're never going to be free. Like why bother? And then it's like, well, I probably should be able to get out of this myself. I mean, come on like it's not that big of a deal. It's not like another kind of addiction or anything, so I should be able to just overcome this myself. But shame is healed in community. Yes, right, shame is healed in community. And so it's just another lie of the enemy that's staying by yourself, that you can do the work on your own, and that you can be free all by yourself and just work it out. No, if you haven't been able to do it before, that's your sign Right. That's your sign right. It wasn't because of failed attempts or not buckling down enough. No, that's your sign. Get some help and don't believe the enemy's lie. You can be free. Wow, thanks.
Speaker 1:So much, heather. Oh, we have so enjoyed our visit with you today, heather, and want to have you back again. I want to talk about more things related to this, but I'm so appreciative that you took the time to do this with us today, and I hope the listeners I know they will have found a lot out of what you've shared that benefit them and encourage them to press on.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yes. We're so glad you've been here and we hope that if you're out there listening, that something has really touched your heart today and encouraged you as well, and we hope that you'll join us for our next podcast of Revelation Within on the go. Bye, bye.