EP 68: Targeting Winter Flounder & When AI Hands you a Striper

The internet can argue about anything, so when an AI-generated thumbnail put the wrong “flounder” in a guest’s hands, we got a front-row lesson in how messy AI can be with fishing details. We laugh about it, but we also use it as a springboard into something way more useful: a real, practical approach to winter flounder fishing that actually works in New Jersey backwaters.

We break down the fundamentals for catching winter flounder in spring: why clam chum logs matter, how small your hooks and baits should be, and why “feeling the bite” is the whole game with a fish that slurps instead of slams. We also talk location strategy like soft bottom, channel edges, creek mouths, and fishing moderate current so the chum settles where your rig sits. If you’ve ever wondered when the back-bay bite fades, we connect it to water temperature and explain how the fish shift once temps hold above about 50°F.

From there, we widen the lens to spring fishing season prep: weakfish showing up again, trout season habits that mess with your hookset, and why a middle school fishing club might be one of the best things happening in local angling. We also get honest about social media, how women anglers get judged, and why a lot of good fishermen and fisherwomen are choosing to post less and fish more.

If you get value from these fishing tactics and conversations, subscribe, share this with a friend who needs a spring plan, and leave a review so more anglers can find the show. What species are you adding to your spring calendar this year?

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Transcript

Elle 0:00

It's right exactly how you described. Obviously, soft bottom. It's on the shallower side because it's kind of to the side of the channel. And yeah, and it's there's a creek that feeds right out.

The AI Thumbnail Blowup

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 0:20

Hello and welcome back to the Fat Dad Fishing Show. I'm your host, Rich Natoli, back this week to talk a few things. We're going to start off with some winter flounder, but we're also going to talk general spring fishing because it's the season for everyone to want to get back on the water. I've had a bunch of people, uh including my buddy Kevin, sending me texts with the weather forecast for the week, and people are not happy with the blowout in New Jersey or anticipated blowout and the rain coming through, but welcome to spring. It is what it is every year. We just got to deal with it. Um, so we're gonna jump into all that. We have Elle from Heaven and L outdoors on tonight, one of the favorite guests that that returns to the show from now and then. And uh we're gonna dive into it. Before we do so, we're gonna before we bring Elle on and dive in first to the controversy that we have. And that I and Elle have both been dealing with all my fault. Uh before we get to that, I'm gonna hit the uh hit the sponsors real quick. Great Bay Outfitters on Radio Road in Tuckerton, New Jersey. If you're looking for a kayak, they're definitely the place that you want to look. Look, they have nationwide shipping, by the way. So if you want to order from Paul and from a great outfitter, Great Bay is the place to go. They have native, they have Old Town, they have Crescent, they've got kayaks on consignment. And one of the best things about the place uh is you can get on the water and test out the kayaks before you buy them. That is the single best piece of advice that anybody can give if you're thinking about buying a kayak, is get on the water with it, give it a real test drive. And Paul and Great Bay Outfitters, they're one of the only places you can do it in this region. Uh, a lot of other people will tell you about it and they'll say, well, find a friend. Well, friends are great, but friends also have already tricked out kayaks. They have different weight distributions just when you get them on the water. And they don't necessarily float like a brand new kayak. Uh, and they don't necessarily feel like a brand new kayak because they're already tricked out for the person that owns them. So check it, check out any kayak that you're interested in at Grey Bay. Give them a call ahead of time if there's specific models that you want to test, and they'll have them all lined up for you in the back so you can go and try them one after the other and find which one is most comfortable for you and which one is the one that's going to fit what you're looking for. Uh, we also have Quad State Tune. Kevin Driscoll is the guy that you want to reach out to if you have a Toyota truck. So Tacoma, Tundra, 4Runner, Lexus 460, and 470. They have the engine tunes, which are going to give you more torque, more horsepower. It's going to solve the problem that especially the Gen 3 Tacomas have, where it kind of hunts for the gears when you're on the highway. Uh, so if you want to increase the performance on your trucks, reach out to Kevin at 484-633-5975. He'll let you know if it'll work for your specific situation and what you're looking to get out of it. And then you have me for real estate in southeastern Pennsylvania, primarily residential, do some like commercial. And I do want to just take a second. I think I mentioned this before, but again, it was I had a podcast listener reach out to me. So, new client this week from the podcast. I appreciate it. And actually, the person that reached out this week was referred to me by one of the podcast listeners. I really appreciate that. Actually, 85.7% my business last year was directly from referrals. So greatly appreciated. That's what puts food on my table. That's what puts gas in the truck so I can make it down to actually go fishing with all of you in the spring, especially when summer flounder opens, which is what I'm really looking forward to. So, with that said, I'm going to bring Elle on screen. L, welcome back. It's great to see you.

Elle 4:08

Hi, guys.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 4:09

And we need to talk about a controversy because yours truly, I didn't screw up, but it's something, something needs an explanation because people just got their their knickers in a twist over this thing. And it's got me a little salty today. And I was really salty coming into this until you until you came on and we were talking backstage. Now I'm in a good mood again. So I'm not gonna, I guess this will be a clean, non-explicit episode after all.

Elle 4:34

I actually once you explain it, I actually have something to add to that to kind of put down anybody that poo-pooed it.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 4:41

So oh, okay. So so let's just the the quick summary is the thumbnail for this episode is an AI generated image drawing of L holding a flounder. Okay. And man, it's the the title of this is Winter Flounder and Spring Fishing with L. But apparently, because it's not a winter flounder, people are gonna get on me about it. And they're gonna get on you about it. And they're like, just put a picture. Well, we've used a bunch of your pictures. He's been you've been on a lot, and I I hate coming back out. So I was like, I'll throw it in AI. And I'll tell you what, L, you and I had a conversation about this through you know on uh Facebook. For an hour, I'm arguing with AI. I mean, I was like calling it names. I was like at like it's real. I'm like, put a damn winter flounder in her hands. And this is no joke, this is what it says. It says, it is capitalized, like it's like it's yelling at me. It is a winter flounder. So if you want a different one, upload a picture and I'll use it. So I wrote back, I was like, that is not a winter flounder, that is a summer flounder. And then it writes back and says, You're right, it is a summer flounder. I was like, what the F is going on here? It just admitted it lied in the previous response. And I said, Okay, put this picture in. So I upload one of your pictures of winter flounder and it put a big honkin, like eight-pound summer flounder in your hands. I was like, screw it. I I I just gave up, you know, an hour to do that. I was like, I should have just reached out and asked for a new picture, but but people have been getting on you and me.

Elle 6:26

Yes. So I I got a few nice, you know, wrong way winter flounder you're holding and all that. No, I have two a few things to talk about with them. First is that so AI like scours the internet for everything. So AI will will always have certain errors because AI only knows what is told to it, and there will always be people that are wrong on the internet. And so that's why it can't get things straight, like something like that. Now, the other thing is that like when I take pictures, I'm usually taking the picture myself, so I put it in selfie mode, which reverses the picture. So, you know, it's is it facing the right way? Is it facing the wrong way? And then the other thing about the picture, which is probably the most inaccurate, and one of the first things I noticed, other than wow, what picture is that? Because I didn't recognize how I was holding the fish. I don't normally hold flute that way. And the first thing I noticed other than the fish was that ring is on the wrong finger. And that was one of the first things that I realized, which is weird, I know, but that's you know, the girl brain. I was like, wait, what picture is that? So I racked my brain for about an hour, literally scrolling through my own phone, trying to figure out which picture it was, and it was an AI picture.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 8:00

Yeah, so I have, I mean, I have a bunch of pictures of you from the previous episodes and you know, your Facebook, Instagram, and you know, and I kept saying, So during this hour of arguing with some random data center somewhere, I kept saying, I I even asked it, why do you keep putting the wrong fish in her hands? And it said, because I can't, it basically said, because I can't with the pose that you gave me and the photo that you want me to use, I can't make the fish fit. So I was like, okay, adjust the pose, make her look as realistic as possible because she needs to be recognized. Parentheses, she is a real person. I said, so change the pose in the background as necessary in order to get the winter flounder in her hands. So I and I'm trying to pull it up here. I think it might have gotten rid of the I'm looking for it right now, but looking at the history. L, it puts a freaking striper in your hands. I was like, what the hell is this now? So now I'm back to now I'm at a striper and I have to start over. I was so pissed.

Elle 9:04

Oh boy.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 9:05

I'm trying to scroll back and see if I can find this because I don't think people are gonna believe that I was literally arguing with with AI.

Elle 9:11

Can you please share the striper picture? Is that possible at some point?

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 9:15

Yeah, yeah. I'm gonna, yeah, if as if I can scroll back far enough on this thing. And by the way, it wasn't Chat GPT that I used. I used Google Google Gemini because I have a professional account for that. I use that a lot for working. Yeah, I just find it to be a little bit better, a little less scary than Chat GPT, but God, it was the most frustrating thing in the world. It was it was so so guys, we get it. It was it was the wrong fish. We get it.

Elle 9:49

You know, the other thing that I wanted to point out is that a lot of people were hung up on it facing the wrong way, whatever. But there's actually been summer flounder or fluke that are that's facing the other way. So anytime people ask me, because this is a common question, how do you tell the difference between a fluke and a flounder, or a fluke and a winter flounder, or summer flounder and winter flounder? Because a lot of people think they're the same thing, obviously. But one of the biggest things that I tell people other than their cute little lips, is their skin. Winter flounder have like sandpaper for skin, and fluke are obviously much smoother and slippery. So that I feel like is the biggest, like almost instant, other than looking at it. You can tell based on the feel of the fish whether it's a winter flounder or summer flounder. Try telling AI that.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 10:39

Yeah, yeah. It it doesn't. All right, let me actually let me share my screen here. Let's see. I hate doing this because I have things in Gemini that are professional, and I think I I use this also for my business, but let me see what I can show here so you can see some of this stuff. It's it's absolutely insanity. All right, let me find this.

Elle 11:02

Now the other thing, I'll let you in on a little secret. The only picture that I've ever used in the fishing world AI on is actually a picture to put pants on myself. I literally asked AI to put pants on because I was in a bikini. Yeah. And I wanted to share the picture. So I that's the only time I ever used AI to change a fishing picture was yeah, I don't like doing I don't like doing it personally.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 11:28

It's a little weird too. I mean, there are pictures of me that are AI changing headshots, but uh I I don't typically use them at all. All right, so people could see it on the screen. I don't know if you can read it or not. Actually, let me blow it up a little bit more so people can see and they won't see us.

Elle 11:44

Never in a million years, what I've expected this to be.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 11:47

I know this is this is the beginning topic, but for anyone that's interested in AI, this is the crap that you're gonna deal with. So I put in there, I said use the attached photo to create a sketch of the person in the photo holding the fish in the other picture. That's this one at the top. So at the very top. Error, error, error.

Elle 12:07

And it gives me Oh, that's the picture. Okay.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 12:11

So yeah, so it does that. So then this is the see that one. So I was like, dude, zoom out so the whole fish is visible. I'm like, what the hell is that? And I'm like, that's not even L. So I said, can you make this sketch of a woman more closely match the photo so it's more obviously her? I want her to be recognizable. It doesn't do it. So I put a different picture, and then I put a different picture, and it puts you it puts you with a porgy.

Elle 12:34

Wow.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 12:35

Then it puts you with a summer flounder.

Elle 12:37

This is creepy.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 12:38

Yeah, see the winter flounder I'm trying to put in your hands, and this is what it it puts. A summer flounder.

Elle 12:43

I love how there's like New York behind me.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 12:46

I know. I I worry about that later, where I pull that out, and I say, change the fish to a winter flounder. Why are you not changing the fish in the picture? And it says, I understand your frustration. The previous fish is a winter flounder. And I and then I just I go on and then I say down here, I was like, it's you are not doing what I'm asking. Change the fish to match the fish. And it finally it says, Oh, there's the striper picture. Yeah, there then it throws the striped bass in there. I don't know how the hell it got a striped bass out of all this.

Elle 13:19

That's terrible.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 13:23

And then it says, and then I said, That is not a winter flounder. It says, actually, it's a summer flounder. Every just told me it was a winter flounder. So, anyway, long story short, I know, I know, I know. And look at look at what it did to you here. Does that even look like you?

Elle 13:37

Oh my god. No. Honestly, none of them look like me. That one might be the closest.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 13:43

Which is why I wanted to do a line drawing. So at least, you know, if it wasn't perfect, then you could see.

Elle 13:50

I gotcha.

L’s Spring Fishing Game Plan

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 13:52

That it was, you know, it was a different thing, and it was obviously AI. So, anyway, that's the long story. So people could see the fun of dealing with AI and fishing podcasts and live streams. It's a pain in the ass. So yeah, so that I wanted to share that because people were very upset that I don't know what a winter flounder looks like, and you don't know, but we both know it is what it is. So yeah, so we're gonna we're gonna talk about the winter flounder. It is the season, but before we do, let's get caught up. How how have you been doing? It's been a it's been a a minute since you've been on.

Elle 14:30

I know. Just really busy with work. Can't wait for June. So hopefully I have a break coming up, so hopefully I'll be able to. I I plan on doing it all. I want to do tog fishing starting Wednesday. I mean, I don't know about the tides, like you said before, blowout tides.

Speaker 1 14:49

Right.

Elle 14:49

But when it's blowout like that, that's usually when I go look for arrowheads, so I'll be okay with that either way. But so tog fishing, trout will be opening up soon, so I'll probably try for some trout or fresh water because I'm gonna be dog sitting and it's near a lake, so might as well. And then I I do plan on trying for some striper and winter flounder. I'll go striper fishing at night, I won't go during the day. And winter flounder, I have a few spots that I wanted to try. I haven't heard a lot of feedback though. So, like you kind of gotta wait until people are starting to catch them, otherwise it's almost pointless to go.

Speaker 1 15:28

Right.

Elle 15:29

But so you gotta keep a little, you know, keep an ear out and make sure that they're actually moving around.

Chum Logs And Winter Flounder Rigs

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 15:35

Right. All right. Well, let's let's talk about the winter flounder. And and this is I love doing topics like this because, like the white perch, it's not something that most people are focused in on. And it's various reasons. Maybe they just don't know how, they just never have. A lot of people never grew up fishing for winter flounder. They're smaller than summer flounder, and they have less of a not that summer flounder have a great fight to them, but you know, you get a really large fish and you're in the two to four pound range, whereas that's not a really large fish. It's a good one for a summer flounder, but um you're typically going to find them under 16 inches, you know. So I think that's part of it. But one of the things that I I do want to mention to people is if you want to go for winter flounder, now is the time to do it. It's it's this time of the year because of the spawn. So they're spawning in late winter through spring, which means they're up in the shallower waters. And that's that's that's why you want to do it now. They're still around in the summer, it's just they move. As the water heats up, they move to the cooler water, which means they're not as easy to find. So let's start off. Let's what's your tactic that you're going to be using when you head out for the winter flounder?

Elle 16:54

Um, unfortunately, the chumlog, I I think I still have a gross, smelly, they smell disgusting. Smelly, leaky, crusty chumlog still in the freezer from probably two seasons ago that I need to get rid of. So the chumlog, the dreaded chumlog. Um, you know, at the bait shop, guys pick up four at a time and they throw it on the counter. And I'm like, no, for the love of God, because then like the whole shop will smell starts leaking. So definitely you have to chum. There's no way around it unless you're gonna go when like the guy down the street is chumming too, you know, or split it with some some guys at the dock or whatever, but you have to use a chum log if you're at the dock or on a boat or kayak even.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 17:42

Is there a specific chum that you're using?

Elle 17:45

It's the they make two kinds of chum, basically, a like a bunker chum. That's more for like shark fishing or you know, chumming off the boat in the ocean. The chum that you want to find is the clam chum. So you you chum for for a little bit, you get a good, you know, chum going on. And then I like to use a little tiny piece of clam and then a little piece of I pick sandworms because I'm a cheapskate and blood worms are just too expensive, and they're smaller than sandworms, so I just go for the sandworms. You know, they're they're a good five dollars cheaper, and they're like five times bigger, so I don't know why people still get blood worms, but I use sandworms, and it doesn't have to be big, right? They have tiny little mouths and they don't need to have a huge chunk of clam. So I mean, you know, the chumlog is a little expensive and the blood worms or sandworms that you use are a little expensive, but you don't need a lot of it. So it does go, it doesn't you know, you can stretch it. I think a lot of people go for tog because green crabs are cheap, or you know, in the spring you get clams, so clam a quarter clams is cheap. I mean, nothing's cheap anymore, but you know, relatively yes, relatively cheap. So I think that's why a lot of people go for tog instead of you know winter flounder, because green crabs you can get six dollars for a dozen and spend, you know, a good amount of time fishing for them. But yeah, I guess the sandworms kind of deter people from trying it.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 19:22

Yeah, and so sandworms and blood worms are probably the top two baits that you'd use. Clams, mussels, even grass shrimp are good. And grass shrimp gives you an idea of the size of the bait that you really need. And you know, uh for people that haven't caught winter flounder, you really have to understand the difference in the biology between the and pretty much any other kind of flounder that you're fishing for, whether it's the you know, we have people down in Florida that that watch and listen to this, you know. So the Gulf Flounder, they have big mouths, the southern flounder, big mouths, and the the summer flounder big mouths, like huge bucket mouths when they open them. These are like little, tiny little circles when they open their mouth. Like they there's no room. So you're using what size herc are you using? Using like a four, six, or an eight?

Elle 20:10

There, I I honestly couldn't. I mean, I use the ones with a long shank, so I don't even know what they are. They're like smaller than a 1-0, you know, yeah, yeah, tiny.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 20:22

Yeah, so somewhere around a uh a number six is what I'm gonna use because that that's just how small the mouth is. And you know, let's talk about the you know, chumming is the strategy, right? I mean, that's that's the best way to do it. Stirring up the bottom, so on and so forth. What's what's your tactic? Let's say you're heading out there, you have somebody jumping on the boat with you, they've never done it, and they say, All right, explain to me everything that you're doing and what we're gonna do for the first half hour. What what are you kind of how are you laying it out for them?

Elle 20:51

Pack your patience. Winter flounder fishing is really slow fishing, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. You know, some people like fast-paced like blue fishing, but honestly, winter flounder fishing to ease yourself into spring, I think is there it's something special. Um, but so I would tell them you know, so we're bottom fishing, we're gonna be anchored if you're on a boat or a kayak. So you want to stay near your slick. Honestly, so I fish Shark River or Mansquan River. I'm not too sure about down like near Great Bay or anything like that. I've never fished down there before, but like Mansquan River and Shark River, you kind of have to know some spots where where the flounder lay. So they're gonna be kind of in packs, and you have to chum so that way it draws them to your area. But there's some that lay, you know, they're in certain spots. So I do it's like a bottom rig. Honestly, the flounder rigs are the only rigs that I will actually buy. Everything else I just make myself. But I actually buy flounder rigs, so it's like A regular bottom fishing rig, it'll have the weight on the bottom with the trail off the back. And like I said, I do a tiny little piece of clam and a tiny both on the same hook and a tiny little piece of sandworm.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 22:15

Are you doing are you doing the yellow bead?

Elle 22:17

I was gonna say some of them have yellow on it. You know, people use corn. Sometimes they just chuck some corn out. I don't know how true that actually is. I mean, I don't know whether somebody just had corn and just chucked it in their chum, and that's you know, then they were like, oh, you know, yellow and corn must be good. Some people also use red, like red beads. Every once in a while, like the the flounder rigs that are sold have either a yellow bead or their red bead, or they also have like a tiny little soft plastic with like a wiggly tail.

Speaker 1 22:51

Yeah.

Elle 22:52

And so you do want some movement because they're not predator fish like like fluke are, right? Basically they're just they're laying on the bottom, and if something tickles their nose, they're gonna try to eat it, and they don't like inhale it like fluke do, they kind of just slurp it.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 23:14

Yes, yeah, and that's yeah, so a couple key things that you brought up just to kind of flesh it out a little bit for people. So the flounder they will move according to where you know, to get to the chum. A lot of people actually use cat food for chum. I do always recommend that you go with the ground clam first. The yellow bead is above the hook, right above the hook. I don't know if it does anything or not, but that's the way I grew up fishing for them. So if I have a yellow bead, I'll use it. If not, I I don't know that it's gonna be a difference maker or not. But I see, you know, in the past, I've done fine with and without. You want to use a very lightweight, but one that's light, the one that's heavy enough that you can stir the bottom with it a little bit. Because again, what what these fish are doing is when they move up to that chum, they will kind of bed down in the bottom. So if you're over hard bottom, that's not where they're gonna want to go. They they're literally the fluke or the the flounder that come up into an area and they kind of shimmy and they get the sand on top of themselves, and they literally sit under the sand with just their eyes sticking up. And they're not swimming around looking for stuff. As you said, they're waiting for it to hit them on the head. Now, when you chum, they do become a little bit more active. They they'll slurp it in, they have that really tiny mouth, which means you're not getting the bite that you think you're like, you've got to know, you've got to be in contact. That's why I say use the really light weights, something that'll it has to hold bottom, but it has to be light enough that you can still feel something picking it up because it's often just a pickup and it's not gonna pick it up and run, it's literally gonna slurp it in and settle straight back down. So you might get a little bit of weight, but you have to be really in touch with your gear. So light line, light liters, partially because then you can use a lighter weight, and if you're not getting anything, bounce that weight up and down, it'll give you some movement on your bait. But what it also does is it stirs up the bottom and they're gonna eat the stuff that's getting stirred up.

Spots, Bites, And Table Talk

Elle 25:24

Definitely. Now, if you wanted to, so you know, you said somebody that's getting on the boat, maybe that hasn't ever done it before. Honestly, if you want to catch a winter flounder and you've never done it before, I would actually say wait a little bit, go in like June and get on a party boat that does a bottom fishing trip that specifically does like Ling and Winter Flounder. Because if you go on a bottom fishing boat, they're going to put you or go to specifically winter flounder spots, and they they'll know if it's been good lately, and they'll put you like right over winter flounder. And some of those fish out there are really big to the point where one of my biggest ones actually was like the size of a keeper fluke, and I mean I was like, holy crap, this is amazing! But in the ocean, it's similar fishing than you know, laying. So basically we would put gulp on the end, so it's like a gulp mullet, pink, white, you know, chartreuse, any of those worked really well. And and a little piece of clam on top of that. Like basically always did like a double feat. And you know, the the gulp with the the tail will tickle the the flounder and they just slurp it right up. So that's another alternative, you know, if you don't have the patience, or sometimes the winter flounder fishing is just slow in the spring. So, you know, if you miss that window in the spring and they've already high-fived the fluke on their way out, then you kind of miss the window, and the next best thing would be to go out in the ocean.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 27:15

Yeah, at this time of the year, you definitely have the backwater bike going on. As you get later, they're definitely gonna start pushing out front. And and I would say for those that are actually anyone listening or watching, here's where I'm going to say is kind of like the cutoff line. Look at Atlanta County in New Jersey and north. That's really where you're gonna have your best opportunity to get them. You get up closer to the Rariton, there's good there, you're gonna have a much better population in those areas. With that said, I've caught them in Cape May County. I know guys that catch them down in Delaware. Don't know about Virginia, actually. I don't actually don't know anyone who's ever tried in Virginia, but do they even know they exist? I I doubt it. I I doubt they I doubt anyone would even try down there. But I I will tell you though, that the further north you go, the easier it's going to be to find them and get a good consistent bike going. So Paul actually put in in here winter flounder in Shrewsbury and Navisink in the spring was fire. So those are the areas that you want to look. You can do it down further south, but again, look for the soft bottom, look for the channel edges, like and and look at it from a slightly different way from how you look at summer flounder. Again, they're not as aggressive, but they're even more ambushed predators than fluke. Fluke will actually get up and chase, and they do nearly every time. It's rare that they just sit on the bottom and they're just gulping stuff that comes by. They're actively going after it. These things want to sit there. So you really have to hone in on where. So if you get a nice soft ledge that goes into a channel, especially from a creek, it's on the downside of that that you're going to start finding them stacking up against that because that's where everything kind of washes off and falls down like a waterfall on top of them. Those are going to be the best opportunity for you. And the one thing that people don't realize, so I've always said I prefer to fish for fluke. So summer flounder at night. Winter flounder is not a night fishery at all. They don't fall, they don't go to sleep like some other species that we all love. They're they're awake at night, but they they are absolutely visual feeders. And with those tiny mouths, they're not they're not burning calories trying to eat at night. They are daytime and sunny daytime, especially in the spring, feeders. So if you have a nice sunny day and you want to pull up into some soft bottom at the edge of some channels in some shallow water, you're going to maximize your chance to get on them as long as you burn the tone.

Elle 30:12

It's right exactly how you describe. Obviously, soft bottom, it's on the shallower side because it's kind of to the side of the channel. And yeah, and it's there's a creek that that feeds right out.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 30:26

Yeah, I mean, it it it's we often overcomplicate fishing, right? They're so smart. No, they're not. They do the same thing. They're fish aren't smart, you know. They're they do the same things, and and you know why they do them. They do them to eat. So think about what's going to be the easiest for them. It's like any of us. You want an easy meal. You don't want to, you know, you get home from work. Do you really want to be cooking up the five-course meal? No, maybe you do it every once in a while, you put in all that extra effort, but no, you just want to come home, you want to throw the nuggets into the oven, go 20 minutes, throw some hot sauce on it and sit in front of the TV. And so the closer it is to that, the the easier it's going to be to catch these fish. And and I'll tell you what, they taste awesome.

Elle 31:13

Yes, they curl though when you cook them, which always drove me crazy because you know, you know, I cook a lot and I'm always like, why won't you lay flat? You know, but they do curl. Not like fluke doesn't do that. I I don't know why winter flounder does. It's weird.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 31:28

I I think it's I don't know. I always just assumed it's because they're so thin comparatively that it just dries really. I mean, it's really easy to overcook winter flounder.

Elle 31:39

Yeah, yeah.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 31:40

It's really easy, and you better be good at cleaning because if you're not good at cleaning fish and you always leave meat on it, you're you're oh yeah, you're gonna have really, really thin filets. Yeah, yeah. But they they definitely taste, in my opinion, they taste better. Actually, Paul just put this in there. They they're much better than fluke.

Speaker 32:00

Yeah.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 32:00

I I I look at them kind of like tog. So tog is actually my favorite.

Speaker 32:05

Yeah.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 32:06

And the reason I believe is because of what it eats. It's eating clams, it's eating mussels, it's eating those, you know, crab. Well, the winter flounder is doing basically the same thing. It's it's eating those things, it's not eating, well, they will eat other fish, but they're primarily going to be eating clams and and things like that, the the softer things that come through. And it just it's gives you that sweet taste to it, a really light, nice flake to it if you cook it right, and you don't, you know, overcook it. But if people have never had it, it's it's one of those fish that it's worth targeting for the slower day because not only is it an accomplishment when you actually come out with a bunch of them, but the you're gonna be rewarded at the table because it's it tastes so much better than a regular fluke. I mean, I don't even think it's close. I don't think. I don't know how you feel about that, but I don't think. Water temperature.

Elle 33:05

It's like if you mix to fluke meat together, like it's kind of a cross between those two.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 33:14

Yeah, it's not as good as the tog though.

Elle 33:16

No, definitely not. And I think not not as good as sea bass either.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 33:21

I hate sea bass.

Elle 33:23

What?

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 33:24

I not to eat. I hate catching sea bass.

Elle 33:26

Oh, I was gonna say, did we just become enemies?

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 33:29

No, no, no. We didn't come no, we're not enemies. I like I hate fishing for them because there's so many small ones that it just annoys the hell out of me. And then you go through like you're 70 fish and you can keep two.

Elle 33:42

Yes, you know. I actually have a beef with the the regulations. It like oh, so do I. Yeah, it it seems like you're just throwing short fish away and they're gonna die. I do try to pop them, but sometimes it doesn't work. So, you know, and whenever I think of the party boats, you know, not so much the you know, the regular guys, but the party boats. Oh my gosh, you go on a party boat and bottom fishing for the two freaking sea bass because you're going out ling fishing and you have to stop for the two sea sea bass, and you're I mean, how many sea bass have to die for your two fish?

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 34:17

Yeah, I can't stand it. I I do like when I'm fluke fishing and you hook into like a really big one or two. Yeah, because they actually have a good fight at that size too. But most of them are just you you keep them and it's you need like six people to keep enough for one person because there's not a lot of meat on those things either. They taste wonderful.

Speaker 2 34:35

Yes.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 34:36

So don't get me wrong, they do, but I to me it's just they don't taste good enough to go through all that effort and all that the the catch that's and and it does bother me that you know that so many are gonna die. Yeah, and that's been an argument, you know, for the change in the rags. We we could do a whole show on the the sea bass rags and how that's been managed.

Elle 34:55

Did they change? I think they changed it, they upped it or moved it down back a half an inch or something to 12 and a half, uh, or whatever it was. I don't know. I didn't look at it.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 35:05

Yeah, they they did make changes. I don't know what they are because again, I won't fish for them unless somebody invites me out and I go on their boat and they're fishing for them. I I won't complain.

Elle 35:14

I mean, I'll go the first few weeks when it opens up in May, and then once they're all cleaned out, I don't go. It's fluke fishing after that. You know, if you don't go right when it opens, then all the bigger ones are picked off the wrecks, and then you know, it's it's kind of dumb picking through little ones. Although that's usually when I catch my one cod a year. So that's yeah. I usually catch about a one cod a year. One year I've caught two, once while sea bass fishing and once while fluke fishing, and boy, was that cool.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 35:47

I haven't caught a cod in forever. I mean I I I could probably count on one hand how many I've caught in my life.

Elle 35:55

I've never targeted them, I mean same, but they're still cool.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 35:58

Yeah, I always caught them ling fishing in the fall.

Elle 36:01

Yeah, yeah.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 36:02

Oh, in the fall, okay in the fall, yeah, which was a shock. You know, I didn't expect to get them, but you know, I go out striped bass fishing and then it would turn into ling fishing for later in the day, and then you know, then you're out of range for the striped bass, so it's gotta be ling, and then all of a sudden you get a cod.

Elle 36:21

I've always caught my cod on gold. So if anybody out there wants to target cod, a gold like jig, even a gold diamond jig, for some reason it was always on gold, which I don't normally go for, but I I was given a gold like I forget what it was called, uh a sting with a stinger hook on it. And I was like, it isn't gonna catch anything, and sure enough, that was what I caught a cod on. And then I had used like a regular gold diamond jig and caught I you know caught cod on that too. So gold is the ticket if you want to catch cod.

Temperature Windows And Shore Strategy

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 36:56

Cod is the bait for crabs, and that bothers me too. Fish them for bait. They taste pretty good, but yeah. So all right, so let's uh let's kind of sum up the winter flounder and let's talk about some other stuff that's coming up. And I want to mention we I did mention how they're gonna move out once the water starts to heat up. They are going to start moving out to deeper water. They will go into the sunny areas in the shallows at this time of the year, but their temperature range is much different than what every other species is. So it's it's nowhere near a summer flounder. Now you can catch summer flounder right now. They're in, you can catch them. But the difference is in the optimal temperature. So the optimal temperature for a winter flounder is going to be somewhere in the 30, in the upper 30s, up to around 50 degrees. So when I say warm up, it's not that high, right? Like 50 degrees is not that high. Once you start getting to 50 degrees, 52 degrees, they're going to start moving. So that's where that's where you start moving out offshore, or out, I shouldn't say offshore, out front, out of the inlets. And that's where you're going to start picking them up out there. But you you have a really good window in the backwaters until you get a consistent 50 degree plus temperature on the water over a couple of weeks. That will trigger them to move out. So uh otherwise they're spawning, they're in the back, and it's a it's a good opportunity to get them. But if we get a warm-up and it's going to shoot those temperatures up, and we got a long way to go now in New Jersey and New York, but if those temperatures spike and you get above 50, it could be an early season for them in the backwaters.

Elle 38:46

Yeah. It's so funny. So I'll start out in Barnegat Bay, and then, you know, you can tell once they start moving. I'll also get reports that like so they'll go from Barnegat Bay through the canal and then out the river and then out the inlet. So, you know, I'll start in Barnegate Bay, and once that slows down, I'll try the canal while I'm togging. So hopefully, you know, you catch a winter flounder while they're just passing through the canal. And then, you know, once that slows down, go out to the river and try that. And you know, you can pretty much follow them out. It's it's so crazy over the course of like a month.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 39:24

You know, yeah, and you can catch them from shore too.

Elle 39:27

Yeah, yeah.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 39:28

You know, yeah, and you can show them from shore.

Elle 39:31

No, I've never tried that before.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 39:34

I I've never tried from the beach. I don't know that they would hang there very much. Maybe they would, but but sodbanks, any you know, docks in the back, you can you can you can catch them land-based fishing.

Elle 39:46

Yes, and and probably one of the easier ones to catch land-based, I think, you know, as long as you know the spots, but I guess that's a hard part.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 39:55

Just stay out of the really heavy flow of the current. They're gonna be off to the side of the heavy flows. So if there's a big current coming through and it's broken by something like a dock, get behind that dock in the in the the mod it. So if you have extreme current, moderate current, no current, you want to be in the moderate area. You don't want to be in this still water, they're not gonna sit in still water because again, they're waiting for food to come by them. If nothing's funneling through, they're not gonna be there. But yeah, I I I would look for that moderate flow. And there is a question in here from Tim do you ever put corn in the chum? Do you ever do that?

Elle 40:34

I just buy my own chum. I don't think they put corn in it, it's a clam chum, you know, it's like five bucks a log, you know. Plus, I mean, it really is stinky. And I just I mean, not that I care because I'll be elbows deep at the shop salting clams, you know, that doesn't bother me. But I don't know what they put in those logs, they just they stink and it's like lingers. It's like no matter how many times you showers, and I'm like, great, people just think I'm the smelly fish girl. So I've never tried making my own chum. I'm sure there's plenty of recipes out there, and a lot of people do put corn in it. Oats is another thing that they use to make it with, you know, it's chum, they just throw everything in it and hope that the flounder like it, I guess. But a lot of people do, so yeah.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 41:20

A lot of people will, when they get the the store chum, they will throw the chum out and then they'll throw some corn out as well. Keep in mind if you're going to be chumming for them, throw the the the chum up to the front of the boat and let it drift so it can get down underneath you a little bit more, or make sure you cast out far behind you, because once they get to where that chum is actually settling, they're not gonna keep moving.

Speaker 41:42

Right.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 41:42

They're just gonna wait, because again, they're not aggressive at like a like a fluke. They're not gonna say, oh, well, it's three feet above, so I'm gonna go up further. No, they're just gonna sit where it's landing and they're just gonna pick it off there. So you got to kind of be aware of that and give it time. Give it, you know, unlike other species, give it like a half an hour at least for that chum to start working. So that that's my advice on it, but it's I don't know, it's fun. I love winter flounder. They disappeared from Cape May County years ago, and they they I know that they're coming back from people that have sent me pictures over the past couple of years. Hey, I caught this wildwood. It's like, okay, great. So they are coming back.

Weakfish Sightings And Gentle Hooksets

Elle 42:23

That's good. Um speaking of fish coming back, I've been seeing a lot of weak fish lately.

Speaker 42:29

Uh big ones.

Elle 42:31

The last about three years, and it's always been I've personally caught them while flooking like first two weeks, and you can literally see the schools of them boiling in the river. It's crazy. I've never seen anything like before. And they're big, they're well over keeper's eye.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 42:47

You know, it's funny. I got an email last night from a viewer. I've never met him, but he just sent me an email and he's like, Yeah, I'm trying to figure out exactly where you are from your old videos. And he started talking about weakfits. So I just told him, I was like, just launch here.

Elle 43:02

Yeah.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 43:02

And I gave him three spots.

Elle 43:04

Nobody's targeting them right now because they're they've gone by the wayside, but they definitely are coming back.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 43:09

They they are now to the point where you can target them.

Speaker 1 43:13

Yeah.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 43:13

And you, and when you target them, and it's been like this for the past couple of years, you should go into that day not thinking, wouldn't it be nice if you should be going into that day saying, I can't wait to hook up my first one. I mean, you can you can target them, you can spend the day out there, you can catch a whole bunch of them. And there are some really nice ones. I've caught, you know, I didn't fish a lot last year, but I caught several weak fish, and they weren't monsters, you know, as fluke fishing, so they were kind of a bycatch, but they were in the you know, in the mid 20s in size, which isn't bad.

Elle 43:48

It's not the old school tide runners, but definitely nice fish out there right now, or yeah, coming up, I should say.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 43:54

Yeah, and I I let them go, but luckily I didn't destroy them, right? Yeah, I let them.

Elle 44:00

The ones go too, but you know, you gotta be careful with netting them and all that. They have such soft mouths that you know if it was if their jaws were ripped off, I would have kept it, but it was fine swimming away.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 44:11

So yeah, oh you know what you mentioned the soft jaw. That is a let's go back to the winter flounder. Set it like set it like a weak fish. They have very soft right out of their mouth.

Elle 44:23

Yeah, you can't set it.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 44:25

Your set is a lift. I mean, that's that's it. A lift, it may be a twitch, but otherwise you're gonna tear it straight through their lips and you're gonna ruin the fish's face, but you're also not gonna end up hooking that thing. You gotta be like really sensitive on these fish. So get and it's a great reason to scale down your tackle. You can use freshwater gear for them as long as it has enough backbone for the weight that you need to get down in the current that you're gonna be in. So if you're using six to eight pound test, you're good. So put that on a bass rod and you're gonna be probably perfect with a nice light tip on it. Yeah, it's uh I'm glad that you mentioned that because you will destroy a winter flounder. You're not gonna bring it up if you treat it like a fluke, it does not have that jaw that you need to penetrate. If you cross it, you're never gonna cross its eyes, it'll just rip straight through. Yeah, just thought that was worth that's worth mentioning.

Elle 45:23

True.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 45:24

Yeah, that's I I have a known issue with oversetting, and it was no different from when I used to go winter flounder fishing. My brother's in the chat. He can, I don't know if he remembers or not. He was pretty little at the time. But yeah, I that was an issue. My grandfather used to yell at me. And he's like, What the hell are you doing? I'm like ripping it straight through.

Trout Season And Tackle Whiplash

Elle 45:45

Yeah, it's like going, you know, trout opens in April and and so does tog. And I usually end up going tog fishing first, and then I'll be like, Oh, let me try trout. And then meanwhile, I'm on the bank ripping the rooster tail out of the freaking thing's mouth, and it's launching it across the I'm like, what am I doing? You know, because you're so used to setting the hook on a tog and then go trout fishing. Forget it.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 46:11

I'm getting ready for trout. I'm I'm I'm excited for trout to start because there's so many trout streams around me. The problem is they're all stocked. And I I hate like the rush, like opening day, you can't even go.

Elle 46:26

Oh, yeah. No, I don't go opening day.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 46:27

It's absolutely bananas, but I love watching the stocking videos and they're just shooting those trout, and all of a sudden you see like a big palomino come out. You're like, oh, I don't that would be cool. But you know that's gonna get caught in the first three minutes.

Elle 46:40

Oh, yeah, because you know, it's like it's literally like fish in a barrel, right? You know, the the banks are lined up with you know, it's these old timers, they've done it how many years. But do you have natural trout in Pennsylvania? Like where I am, there's no natural trout. So the only trout that I catch would be a stock trout, unless I go up north at like flat brook area, you know.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 47:04

I I would say where I am in the let's just call it the in Montgomery County, there's not a lot, if any. I mean, I would just I just consider them all stocked, although I know that these these streams and the creeks and the rivers can support native trout. Okay, right. There's just not a lot of them. Where I went to school up in Bloomsburg, we used to just go for natives. And you know, they're typically smaller and but a hundred and fifty thousand times harder to catch. Yeah. And we'd go camping for like a week, just trying to each get one. And you know, it it was it was incredible. It's it might have just been because we were too drunk and too bad at fishing, you know, that we didn't catch that many, but you can get really nice natives in some of the more remote areas. But around here, I I could be wrong, I consider them all to be stocked. Yeah, and they probably are. And anything that's in there right now is a holdover that just escaped last season. Yeah, so that's kind of the way that I categorize it here. But with that said, I'm still looking forward to going trout fishing. I haven't been able to get out, I hurt my back, and it's getting better now. I mean, I can walk around and I can do normal things for a certain period of time, but what scares me is walking down the creek banks and then walking in the water. Like, you know, all I'm gonna have to do is twist wrong and then I'm out for all the fluke season. So I don't want to do that.

Elle 48:35

Yeah, that's true.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 48:37

So, yeah. So, all right, so you got trout coming up. You're gonna do that, obviously tog because that's like your thing. Uh so tog fishing. You'll do the striped bass at night.

Elle 48:47

Yeah, I yeah. I wanted to get out earlier, but honestly, it was slow anyway. I think it's starting to heat up. So, and now that I have some time coming up, I'm I'm definitely planning a few night trips.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 48:58

All right. Well, let's talk about the let's talk about the fishing club.

Elle 49:01

Okay.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 49:02

Yeah, for those that are not aware, like fill them in on on this. I just think it's awesome that you do this.

Elle 49:07

Oh, thanks. So I I'm a teacher. A lot of people don't know that. I teach middle school, and you know, actually, I should mention this. My students actually hate AI. I'm just throwing that out there.

Speaker 1 49:19

Okay.

Elle 49:20

They literally hate it. They're like, you know, it's so dumb. We can tell that it's AI. And I'm like, I I don't use AI in any of my lessons except to like show them good ways to use it and bad ways to use it. But anyway. So I teach middle school and I started a fishing club at the school. And, you know, I live in a very beachy town or fishy town, I should say. You know, there's the beach too. So I have a lot of land-based spots to fish, and so you know, we're gonna start out with tog fishing. Our break is coming up, so it'll be about mid-April. That's when it starts to really heat up anyway. And it's so funny because I always start them out tog fishing, which probably sounds like totally counterproductive. But most people kind of know where I fish, and they know that it's pretty easy to catch tog bear.

Speaker 1 50:12

Yeah.

Elle 50:13

And so the kids get hooked right away. And they're like, This is amazing. They don't care if it's a keeper or not. Plus, with Tog, you know they're fighting hard, and they just they're just so proud of catching anything, really. You know, I try to show them how to unhook the fish themselves, and if they can't do it, obviously I help them. You know, we talk about stewardship, you know, some fish like Tog, they're slow growing fish, so you know, really consider if you want to keep it or not, if it's a keeper, you know, stuff like that. So we're gonna start out with tog fishing, and then once that ends at the end of April, move on to hopefully bluefish run through sometime in May, June. But you know, until the bluefish start running, I'll do fluke fishing. But with fluke fishing, land-based is not as easy as uh the tog, and so they get frustrated. Um you know, it's it's almost rare for them to catch anything while we're fluke fishing. You know, there's a lot more to it with the jigging. I have to start lending out my rods because a lot of them don't have the right equipment and casting, you know, they're casting now. It's not just drop and and reel. So I gotta show them how to cast. But it's it's really cool when they finally catch a fish. You know, they want all the pictures and you know, can you send it to my mom? And it's really awesome. And they're you know, they're 13-year-old kids and they just love it. And then I usually end with our last one is usually on on Dog Beach in Manisquan. So we'll try to do hope like I said, hopefully bluefish, although I'm not too jazzed about 13-year-olds and and bluefish, but yeah, you know, it's exciting.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 52:01

There's some concerns there.

Elle 52:02

Yeah. I, you know, obviously teach them about the anatomy of the fish, you know, with tog, I tell them about their little lips and teeth. With fluke, I tell them about their teeth, you know. Every once in a while they'll catch like a tiny little sea bass, you know, while we're talking, and they get all excited because they're like, What's this? So I tell them this fish, you can actually put your finger in their mouth.

Speaker 1 52:26

Yeah.

Elle 52:27

So, you know, it's it's really cool because I get to teach and fish at the same time, and it's just, you know, an awesome thing.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 52:35

I I love that you do that. I absolutely love it. I let me ask you this. So let me let me set it up. So I am secretary for a nonprofit that donates fishing gear to kayak fishermen, but it's it's to kids and people with disabilities and veterans. If you have any kids in your club that would like to be kayak fishing and they need supplies, like we'll we'll send out PFDs. So we'll they'll get their life jacket, we'll send them hooks, gear. Sometimes we'll send them a we don't send the rods because it's too expensive to mail them. Yeah, but we'll we will give them reels and and help get them started. So if you have any kids in the club that want to be kayak fishermen, I have one in mind, came right to mind when you said that. So I will send to you the information that they can apply to get quote unquote sponsored by the the nonprofit, but we're we're always looking for kids. It's always it's always adults that want all the free stuff. And we and a lot of them, I mean, great, they you know, disabled veterans, and they're like, hey, check this out, and they're like, Where's your leg? They're like, Yeah, I don't have a leg, makes it difficult for my pedal kayak, but here's what I did. Oh my god, we'll we'll send you some stuff, help you get on the water. Wow, but the kids, it's just something cool when you know that's why I love the fact that you're doing it, you know, because it's it's the kids that really matter, um for the future of fishing.

Elle 54:06

So it's so funny because people are always like, you know, I do a lot for the school that I'm at, and people are always like, You're doing too much. I'm like, you don't understand. I like this.

Speaker 1 54:19

Yeah.

Elle 54:20

I I coach volleyball too, you know. I I like it.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 54:24

Wait, are you tall enough to play volleyball? I'm probably not.

Elle 54:28

I'm 5'4, so I wish I was taller, but no.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 54:33

All of us wish we were taller. All right, well, yeah, I wanted to I wanted to mention I wanted you to mention that because I think that you deserve some credit for for starting the fishing club. It's not like you just said, Oh yeah, I'll help out with it. You're like, you know what? We need a fishing club. Yeah, I mean I had stories.

Elle 54:52

I had a group of parents that like knew me from the shop. You know, I was working at the school, and then just by chance, some of them came into the shop and they're like, Oh my gosh, you know, they get all excited and they're like, You should start a fishing club. And I'm like, uh how much time I'll have. I mean, I would like to, but you know, and so they were like, No, we're gonna do it. So my first year doing it was three years ago, and you know, I had I had some helpers, except that like those because they're you know eighth graders, those kids' parents graduated, so now I'm like, I don't have help. You know, so I'm running around like a nut job trying to unhook fish or retie stuff, you know, nobody has the right stuff that they brought. I gotta use my own crap. And I'm like, oh my gosh, we need stinkers. You know, so it's a lot of running around, but it's extremely rewarding when you see a kid.

Women Anglers And Online Judgment

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 55:44

Oh yeah, and they're they're never gonna forget that you're the one who got them into it. They're never gonna forget that.

Elle 55:50

You know, the other part of it is I'm always trying to get the girls to fish, you know, because obviously it's you know, the boys are interested, but you know, I'm like, girls, we can do this, you know, and actually quite a few girls started doing it too, which makes me so happy. And it's so funny because sometimes I'll talk about you know how differently sometimes I'm treated in the fishing world. A lot of people I guess think that I'm like some giggly bimbo, which I get it. Based on appearance, I suppose I probably do look like I don't have much thoughts behind my eyes. Well, I I've gotten some feedback and you know, a lot of people are like, you know, when I first followed you or when I first met you, I thought you were gonna be some like you know blonde bimbo, but you're actually like really cool. I'm like, Well, thank you, but maybe next time don't judge somebody based on how they look.

Speaker 1 56:45

Yeah.

Elle 56:46

But so, you know, I get that a lot at the the shop that I work at. You know, men will literally refuse my help because they think that I don't know anything about fishing. And when I tell the kids, because sometimes we'll talk about it, you know, it'll come up in in class or conversation, and they're like, that is so dumb. I'm like, I'm glad you guys think that. And it's the boys that say it. They're like, that's dumb. Girls can fish. And I'm like, We're the the kids will be all right. So we're on the right track here.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 57:14

Yeah, well, and not only that, but at the age of the kids that you have in the club, the girls are probably gonna start off faster than the boys because the girls focus typically. I know it's a generalization, but uh yeah, I was, you know, my background in edge was in education. And if you don't think there's a difference between who's gonna listen and who's gonna learn quicker, the girls are at that age. Yes, they're gonna learn quicker. Yeah, I don't get it. I and I wish I could say that the whole women and fishing thing is just BS, but I I've actually seen it and I've had a lot of people. You're not included in this, but I've had female guests where people have like sent me stuff, just be like, what are you bringing her on for? She doesn't like shut the hell up. Like, I know you, so why are you telling me that she doesn't know what she's doing when I know she could outfish both of us? Like, what the hell's wrong with you? But the other thing is, I kind of get some of the stereotype because just look on Instagram and 94% on scientific measurement, 94% of the female anglers are only there for their bikinis.

Elle 58:29

Yes.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 58:30

They're holding up fish that are not impressive. I see Tad in the chat. If Tad was holding up the same fish, you'd say, Great fish, no big deal. But it becomes like this epic 4,000 like and comment post. I know it's frustrating to see that, but but people those are not the people that are on the party boats with you. Yeah, people on the party boats are actual fishermen, fisherwomen. Like, get the hell over yourselves. And I have seen it in person, I have seen it, so yeah, stick it to them. That's what I see.

Elle 59:03

Honestly, though, it gets to the point, and I'm sure you've noticed how much like how much I've slowed down with social media. Yes. I just want to fish at this point. Like, I just want to catch a fish. I hear that a lot of people do, you know. You know, the other thing is now, and I'm like worried about this, and I don't know why, because I really don't care what people think of me too much, but there's like um accounts that that people have made to make fun of other anglers.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 59:34

Like uh I know, yeah, and I know some of the people behind it. Well, I'm some of them you can't some of them you can't even say the name. I know some of the people behind some of them in New Jersey. Do you?

Elle 59:44

I would I'm dying to know, and I want to know do these people have a life or like go fishing at all?

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 59:50

Because yes, uh, and the ones that I'm thinking about, they do, and they're actually decent fishermen.

Elle 59:56

Really? Do that then? It just makes sense.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 59:59

But the thing is they get very jealous very quickly for no reason.

Speaker 1:00:04

Okay.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 1:00:05

And and they do have an inflated view of themselves. And they are also, I will tell you in person sometime when it's not between us and everybody, you know, because the people will figure things out. And I'm not outing anybody.

Speaker 1:00:19

Okay.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 1:00:20

But the the the hypocrisy of the things that they complain about is ungodly. It's like if you would just point out to them, wait, you're complaining about this, but do you remember when you did that? And what you did was a thousand times worse than what this other person did. You know, think about spot burning. I can't believe you see it. I can't believe it comes on on this pathetic little account making fun of somebody, spot burn. It's like I I will I will tell you specifically. And then and then two weeks later, not only is it a spot burn, but it's the same exact spot. And it's magnified by a hundred. This is no, this is no exaggeration, a hundred thousand in reach. It's like, mm, maybe you should get over yourself and just give people a little bit of grace, let them do their fishing and and and stop acting like that. But I I see it, I delete a lot of comments for other people. People don't typically get on me, but I'm a nobody in fishing, so there I'm not a target for really many people.

Elle 1:01:27

Yeah, isn't it funny how you know you want to be somebody? But then again, I'm like, nah. No, I don't need that. I don't need that.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 1:01:37

No, I just want to fish. I want to be, you know, I want to be a part of something and do something like this, which look, it's a small audience, but people connect in the audience. Yeah, they be they go out and they go fishing with each other. So it's like great. Like I'm actually doing some benefit for other people. And I think you can at least find a few minutes of entertainment in these streams, right? And some information, and you should learn something. If you don't, well, you got to sit back and listen to a couple people talk fishing on a Monday night. Yeah, so it's better than watching the Phillies who were losing 4-0 when I came up to the office to do this. Uh, so instead of watching that Taiwan walker breakdown, you can watch a couple of people talk about fishing and maybe a species that you haven't targeted yet that could really enhance your your annual calendar for fishing if you add them in. And that's the winter flounder. So maybe that's where we can bring it full circle and uh stick a pin in this one.

Final Wrap And Next Week

Elle 1:02:35

Sounds good.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 1:02:36

Yeah, well, thank you. Thank you very much for coming on. Um it's gonna be difficult for the next two weeks for me, uh, coordinating some guests. We're we're trying to do some acrobatics um with one guest in particular who would like to come on. So I don't have anyone locked down for next week, people, but I'm gonna do my best to have something put together. Maybe I'll do a solo episode. Uh Elf, thank you very much for coming on.

Speaker 1 1:03:02

Anytime.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 1:03:03

Make sure you post some winter flounder picks so that I can put them out and change the thumbnail so that people can stop getting on me uh about that one. I'm hoping. I I I want to see some winter flounder. I I I want to live vicariously through you because I'm not gonna hit them until probably late May, early June. And by that time, I have a feeling they're gonna be out front, and I'm not going out front my kaya.

Elle 1:03:32

Honestly, I would say definitely by the end of the looking forward to it.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 1:03:38

Everyone, thanks for tuning in. Really appreciate it. I'll try to be back next week. Through all this wind coming up and all this rain, there's gotta be little windows for you. So when you can, get out there, get on the water, and get some tight lines.