EP 70: 2026 Fluke Pre-Season Show with Capt. John Halkias

Fluke season is rolling in, and we can feel that annual shift from “waiting it out” to “get me on the water.” I’m Rich Natoli, and Captain John Halkius joins me for a fast, practical talk on early-season fluke fishing that’s built around what anglers actually deal with: cold water, inconsistent bait, and a fishery that can look totally different depending on where you launch.

We dig into why some areas that once lit up with spring fluke now feel slower, including what we’re seeing around Peconic Bay and Shinnecock and how offshore pressure could ripple into inshore spring fishing. From there we get tactical. We talk structure that holds fluke early, why shallow sun-warmed water can be a huge advantage in back bays and marsh edges, and how deeper ledges can stay colder but still produce when conditions line up.

Then we get into the meat of the fluke playbook: bucktail and teaser setups, why Gulp (especially shrimp and jerk shads) keeps beating natural baits for efficiency, and the confidence colors we reach for like white, new penny, glow white, and a few sleeper picks. We also cover the stuff nobody brags about, like sea bass shredding tails, skates that feel like a trophy fluke for 30 seconds, and small tweaks that help you keep fishing instead of constantly re-rigging.

If you’re gearing up for opening day and want a smarter starting plan, hit play, subscribe for the opening week recap, and share this with your fishing crew. After you listen, leave a review and tell us: are you starting shallow or deep this season?

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Transcript

Capt. John Halkias 0:00

When he saw what we were doing, and he had brought a lot of live bait on that trip. He he literally brought baby bunker, his son threw a cast and got all this great live bait that they kept alive, and it did not do crap against the against the gull.

Welcome Sponsors And Season Setup

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 0:20

Hello and welcome back to the Fat Dad Fishing Show. I'm your host, Rich Natoli. Joined live tonight with Captain John Halkius. And before I jump into that, I gotta ask, are we actually live? Because it's telling me we're not, but I believe we are. So good old YouTube. Okay, it looks like we have a yes from James Flynn. Thanks for joining in, James. Uh you see my brother in there. OTAKiller, SD0753, and Randy Brown, uh, from Soul Strong Days. Good to see you guys in there. Um we're gonna hit this a little bit different than we typically do. We're not gonna go into like all the education stuff. This is all about look, fluke's opening. It's open in some states on already. In some states, it never closes. Um, I think Delaware is one of those uh where we have a lot of viewers, but it's going to open. It is rolling into fluke season. So let's talk about it. Let's have a little bit of fun for half an hour or so, and uh let's get ready for what for me is my favorite time of the year is fluke fishing. So uh I'm I'm excited to get back at it. Before we jump into that, we're gonna go through the sponsors as usual. Great Bay Outfitters, the top sponsor, the original sponsor of this show. Paul and the team at Great Bay Outfitters is the place to go on Radio Road in Tuckerton, New Jersey, if you want anything to do with kayak fishing at all. And I would say it doesn't even have to be kayak fishing. Kayaking. You want to go into Great Bay Outfitters, they just announced three hours ago. They're back to their summer hour. So uh on on May 1st. So that's what, Friday? They go back to their summer hour, so nine to three, and then on weekends, 10 to 3, or no, what is it? 10 to 3 on weekdays. Okay. 10 to 3 on weekdays, and then the weekends nine to three. Uh, and just so that you know, that is the place you want to go if you're thinking about buying a kayak because you get to test it on the water. He's got the models in that you want to try, and that is the single most important thing to do is to test a kayak yourself. Don't take whoever's word for it that they have the best kayak. The uh the thing is, everybody thinks they have the best. And that's maybe it's a defense mechanism because they have to justify the cost that they just put into it. But go down there, try it out. Uh, they're back to summer hours starting on Friday. Then we have Quad State Tune, Kevin Driscoll. If you own a Toyota truck, so we're talking to Coma, Tundra, 4Runner, Lexus, 460, and 470, these are the engine tunes that will get you more performance out of the engine, improved throttle response, improved torque, better horsepower, smoother transitions when you're on the highway. If you're towing a boat, this is what you want if you have a Toyota. When you talk to Kevin, his number is 44-633-5975. If you have a model or a gear that he does not think you're going to get the benefit out of it, he will tell you that. So he's not just going to sell you just because you have a Toyota. He's going to talk to you about what you can expect and you can make a good decision there. And then the last one is me, Rich Natoli, Natoli Real Estate, soon to be expanding. But as of right now, it's me, the solo show in southeastern Pennsylvania, primarily residential real estate. I appreciate each and every one of you that has reached out to me and sent referrals or done business directly with me. It is how I pay my bills. It is greatly appreciated. I don't know if you guys know, but this is a really, really tough real estate market. We're bouncing at the bottom, the basement of volume. And it's it's, I gotta say, it's the fat dad fishing crew that has helped me to weather some of these storms. So, yeah, if you if you have anything, reach out to me. My number is 267-270-1145. And as I do that, I am going to silence my phone just in case. But yeah, so those are the sponsors. Please support them as they support this show. And with that,

Fluke Season Hype And Decline

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 4:20

I'm gonna bring John on screen. John, welcome back. It's good to see you.

Capt. John Halkias 4:24

What's up, Rich?

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 4:25

I'm excited. I am really, really excited for a full season of Fluke this year.

Capt. John Halkias 4:33

So I'm not yet excited. We were we we did like literally five minutes of prep before this, you know, trading anecdotes about opening day. It used to be exciting for me here in Eastern Long Island. I keep my boat, I I have for 20 27th year, I think now, in one of the what used to be the prime fluking grounds in New York in in May. And we would actually catch fluke in April. I remember one year it opened April 17th, and we were bailing fluke, Peconic Bay. Yeah, and that fishery has completely almost died. And it it more excited about bass right now than fluke, but I know we're gonna talk about fluke today, not bass, not not tog, not anything else. But uh it it it's interesting how the world works. If if we had this conversation 10 years ago, I I would have been way more excited, but still excited that the season's finally starting. To me, it it signifies the start of spring and some of our ocean runs and fishing Montauk, Rhode Island, things like that. That we're a little closer to that.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 5:35

Yeah, I I think for me that's a big part of it. It it's you know, a lot of people say the summer starts at Memorial Day. For me, the summer starts when fluke opens. It's not summer technically, but to me, that's where I shift into summer mode. I just, you know, I'm ready to be on the kayak, I'm ready to be on a boat or on a sod bank or on a beach, just getting my feet wet and getting the line wet and hopefully pulling some fish in. And I just love stalking fluke in the backwaters. It's it's an obsession, you know. People say, you know, if you had a boat, you wouldn't agree. Well, I had a boat for a long time and kayaks, and I ended up fishing out of the kayak more than the boat because I just love, especially the South Jersey area, where I could get back in the sodbanks and just kind of disappear and just stalk these fish that I mean they can be elusive at this time of year, you know. And you were you were saying before we came on that you're a little nervous about how this is gonna start and whether it's gonna be a good start or a slow start.

Capt. John Halkias 6:38

Oh, I I'm positive it's gonna be a slow start. And I just echoing what you said about the sodbanks, you know, I I a couple of years ago I hooked up with Roger A from uh Cooking and Fishing, and like he introduced me, and actually before him, one of my clients, one of my really good clients, Ernesto, we went on a party boat out of Moritz's Bay called the Rosie, and we had a phenomenal day where everyone else was using like a lighter version, but like a one-ounce, one and a half ounce bucktail and a teaser, and he was just dropping these little quarter ounce, half-ounce jig heads with the the gulp jerk shads, and he like outfished the whole boat, and then I started doing it, and I limited and I caught up a big fish, and I was like, holy crap! And then everybody, when I put the video out, everybody in the comments pointed to Roger, and I looked up his channel. I actually become very good friends with him, and this is a long-winded way of saying I'm really gonna try what you're trying in my local waters. Granted, it it's it's not the same bottom, it's a much deeper bay, but we do have some spots that I think are kind of well, not a mirror of the the sodbanks you describe in the marshes off Jersey. It I think I have a chance to make it work, but time will

Finding Fluke In Cold Water

Capt. John Halkias 8:01

tell.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 8:01

Yeah, and I think it it comes down to structure, right? And and the sod banks are great because there's so much variation to structure in such a small area, right? You could be in in a one mile area and have 10,000 different bits of structure on the bottom, and you have different currents coming out of different creeks, coming over different waters, over different bottoms. And and that to me, it just kind of condenses it, right? But Pecanic Bay, you do have those types of structures, it's just it's just different, and it's deeper, much deeper, as you you told me, 80 feet in some places.

Capt. John Halkias 8:38

Yeah, I 80 feet close to shore. Close to shore. There's deeper parts of the bay, but uh I I you know I mentioned to you when I have clients from Jersey and we're leaving Potonic Bay, and you know, I I follow a channel that often, you know, you're 40, 50 feet from shore, and the guy next to me might say, It's not really 80 feet here, is it? I go, Yeah. And you can literally throw uh throw a rock to shore.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 9:03

That's crazy. No, I guess we have that. You know, we only get that really in the inlets and the bridges right near the inlets where we get not 80 feet. I think the deepest that I fish is maybe I think I think there's an area in Absecan Inlet, it gets down to around 50, and also down in Herford Inlet, it cuts down to about 50. So it goes from about eight or nine feet down to 50 pretty quick. But those are in the inlet in the backwaters. You know, I have found a actually I didn't find it. I was shown a hole that went down to 60 feet, but it's not 60 feet anymore. It's kind of filled in as the the sands moved. And I never caught anything out of that hole though. But yeah, it's I I I think the one thing that would be interesting when you try those early in the season is to take a look at what the depth does and as as compared to the water temperatures, right? Because sometimes those deeper areas have the more consistent water temperatures and can be more comfortable. So maybe, maybe that'll help. I know it helps destroy bass, you know, they'll just kind of sit under that thermocline. You'll definitely have a thermocline at 80 feet.

Capt. John Halkias 10:16

Yeah, well, to be clear, most of the bay is 25 to 50 feet. The but there are ledges like that. The 80 was just one spot that that we drive through. Yeah, I I can tell you right now, the water temp's about when when I went out a couple days ago, I went out with Skinner. We we tried for tog, we have the April Tog season, and we tried for bass. The water temp was 49 and a half, but that's on top of the water. Uh it's been brutally cold here. Today was a beautiful day, but it it's been in the 30s. Every morning, you know, I I think when he and I went out, it was 39 when when I left my house to uh drive to the boat. And you know, that that water temp is actually down a degree from about 10 days before that when I had tried also. So that deeper water for fluke is going to be cooler. There's no s no squid have shown up yet by us, they start showing up around now. No bass have really shown up, despite I know Skinner put out a couple videos or one video showing some bass, but the water temps really have to improve, uh, I think for us to get the bait in that's needed for the fluke to follow the bait.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 11:32

You know, it's it's it's interesting to me. You say that you're not you don't have like the the bass in, but I'm seeing I mean guys texting me, emailing, and then just I'm seeing on social media, you know, 40-50 inches in the backwaters. That's west of us. That's west of you. Yeah, they're in behind you now.

Capt. John Halkias 11:49

They're not there they'll they'll be here. I'm not worried about the bass.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 11:53

They'll be haven't made the turn.

Capt. John Halkias 11:54

Yeah, they well, yeah. We the the bass we get in Pecanic Bay, I'm pretty sure come through Shinnecock Inlet and make their way east from there. So, and that's historically where the fluke came from, too. And it not too we did not talk about this, but the precipitous decline in fluke we've seen in Peconic Bay directly translates with the commercial fishing that was discovered off the continental shelf right off right off Shinnnecock. Now you now you have commercial boats there all winter in the deep water hammering the big fluke. Yeah uh if if you look on social media, you'll you know, Instagram all winter showing these draggers, you know, with 13, 14, 15 pound fluke. Those are all the fluke that used to come in through Shinnnecock first and then come into McConaughey. And I I don't think it's a coincidence that that fishery was discovered and now you know our bay is suffering. And they and they it's not meant to be an indictment on commercial fishing, you know. I technically a commercial fisherman, right? As a charter captain. And they serve a purpose and it's legal, they're not doing anything illegal. It's just explaining my opinion why the you know, why we've seen fewer spring fluke than we historically had.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 13:10

Right. Well, I mean, it look anything that you do, anything anybody does is gonna affect everybody else. And when you have those, I've seen those. The the just the sheer volume of big fish getting pulled out by these things, it's amazing. And yeah, they're not gonna make it back into the backwaters when they come in in the spring because they're never gonna make it there, they're never gonna make it to the spring. So it does make sense to me. I'll say one thing as far as the advantage for the early season that I have over you is in those sod areas and the backwaters that I'll be and it and look, people, it doesn't have to be sod areas, it could be the rivers and and everything like that. The advantage that I have is I can I can go up into three feet of water, four feet of water, where they will go up when the water's cold to warm up. So on a sunny day, I can go and just fish a ledge from four feet down to six feet, and they're they're gonna be stacking on that ledge, you know, just just enjoying the the bait coming over, you know, out of the shallows and the warm water flowing over them on the outgoing, which is why I love outgoing so much. But that's that's probably what I'm gonna be forced to focus on because the water temperatures I'm hearing is 52 degrees in the back. Now, wild swings depending on where you are, but you know, James Flynn is putting in there a day like today. Yeah, like a day like today where we had plenty of sun, you know, the there wasn't much wind, but the wind was is even better. If it's windy and it's sunny and it's warm, that's even better because then you get the riffle on the top of the water and that heat exchange. But I'm that's what I'm planning on doing. I'm just what are you using?

Capt. John Halkias 14:52

Are you using like gulp shrimp or

Bucktails Teasers And Best Colors

Capt. John Halkias 14:55

yeah?

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 14:55

So when I when I fish, I typically start in the backwaters with a three-quarter ounce bucktail. I I will almost always have on there a gulp shrimp, and then I will have a teaser ahead of it, and on that teaser, that's just a really small teaser, and I will put a a jerk shad on there. Okay, so I'll typically start with white there and with new penny shrimp. New penny just seems to work.

Capt. John Halkias 15:24

New penny is my absolute favorite color of all time, yeah. Um even for like deep monstal fishing, if we're fishing 110 feet. That and mackerel like have skyrocketed to the top for me. They they just seem to always work.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 15:42

Yeah, and now I do I do get bubblegum.

Capt. John Halkias 15:46

I use bubblegum. I've never heard of that color.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 15:49

So it literally looks like the pink bubble gum. I will use that color when nothing else is biting, and sometimes I'll throw chartreuse, but for the most part, I'm trying to look natural or or I'm using white. And white, white seems to work no matter what you do. But you know, I I used to be all over like nuclear chicken and those types of of uh colors. I don't know.

Capt. John Halkias 16:12

Nuclear chicken has disappointed me greatly the last couple of years. Yeah, I'm not like a you know, like a crazy believer in the colors, but it it it seems to me, yeah, anecdotally, that if I have new penny, if I'm using new penny on a day, I do well. Somebody in the comments mentioned blue haze. Blue haze. That that's another good color that seems to work. And for me, glow white, because we're fishing deep, so sometimes that that little bit of glow can make a difference. That's that's the other one that I like to keep in my uh jar at all times.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 16:50

So I I I would use glow white out front. I don't ever use it in the back because I or it mostly at this time of the season. Actually, no, I don't really use it in the back at all. The reason is it seems to pick up the dogfish. And in May in New Jersey, it is like not just dog fish.

Capt. John Halkias 17:11

You get the dogfish and with that shallow water fishing, too.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 17:14

Oh, yeah, not the spiny, we get the regular smooth dogfish, and I mean you're talking like the big ones, like the 35-inch ones, and that can just be a pain in the neck. They seem to key in on glow to me, it seems that way. So I just go with the regular white. But if I if it's murky, I do have glow. And when the water's really dirty, I I can go to that sometimes just to see if I can get something that'll get through it. But as a standard, I don't plan to bring it, and if it's in one of my jars, then I'll use it maybe. Yeah, I just I just think keeping it as natural as possible is the best way to go. When in doubt, go natural.

Capt. John Halkias 17:59

Yeah. Have you ever tried any? So in Florida this year, we were using all these like jerk squids and sumo shrimp and all this uh these artificials that a company called Nomad makes for Grouper. Now, my buddy Doc, who we briefly talked about, because I said he's just as crazy in person as he shows up in the videos, he ordered a whole bunch of all those things to try as teasers for fluke. Yeah, the small versions. Yeah, and it it you know, I said to him why. You know, they're expensive. Yeah, um, not that gulp is not expensive, but it okay, gulp is two dollars, not ten dollars for for a piece, and and we know it works, but I'm curious, and maybe some of the folks in the comments can chime in. Has anybody ever tried either as a teaser or the main lord, just an artificial no gulp? I like you would for slow-pitched jigging, let's say.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 18:58

Yeah, I would like to see in the comments what people say. I've tried everything, and so I've tried a bunch of different types of artificial shrimp, and I I can't say that any of them make it worth me paying the extra money for these lures, you know, because you know, gulp is a bait, right? So, and it's priced like a bait. Whereas everything else, it's like, here's this revolutionary lure. It's like, well, it's not outperforming, so why am I gonna drop a $12 lure when I'm getting the same exact thing with the gulps, you know? And gulps last forever with fluke, you know, they rarely bite through them. You can you can catch like 20 on one as long as we we have way different experiences with gulp then rich.

Capt. John Halkias 19:42

Oh, because you're not using grubs, that's why I got I okay. The the grubs, the when we're fishing in the summer, yeah, you you might go through 15, 20 grubs in a session. The the the fluke absolutely bite the tails off.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 20:00

I never have that unless it's unless we have the sea bass or the puffers or something like that.

Capt. John Halkias 20:07

So the puffers with us will just make those little square bite marks on the tail. The sea bass, if you can tell the difference in hits, so the sea bass are like more like porgy hits, they're like you know, rapid fire where the fluke will be just a punch or just wait on. If you don't set on those, because they don't have real teeth, they have the like little sandpaper teeth. If you don't set on that, and you don't care about catching sea bass, obviously, you'll never have a tail ripped off. You might have the the gulp body pulled a little where it's you know no longer clearly on, but that you'll often, if you watch Skinner's videos,

Bycatch Problems And Lost Gulp Tails

Capt. John Halkias 20:46

especially, he won't set when you know when a when he knows a sea bass biting. I I pretty much know too when a sea bass is biting.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 20:54

It's like shot or it's like a machine gun.

Capt. John Halkias 20:56

Yeah, I won't set on that. That that's an easy way to have your gulp tail ripped off.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 21:00

So let me let me just give you a little bit of an insight into my psychology. I can't stand it when they're doing that. I feel like it's interfering with what with what I'm doing. John, it was so bad. I was in a tournament, right? A fluke tournament. I went through over a hundred dollars in gulp just because I was so angry. I was like, you know what, I'm just gonna set it hard and rip their skull out. I I just wanted to punish these sea bass because I went through I went through over a hundred dollars worth of gulp in one day because I was so irritated. I and but at the same time, I never felt a fluke bite the entire day.

Capt. John Halkias 21:40

Right, right. So somebody in the comments just asked, I always thought it was sea bass and sea robins that eat the tails. You will lose your tails to them if you set the hook. If you don't set the hook, they absolutely cannot break those tails. Absolutely have teeth.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 21:54

I set the hook when I get irritated. That's my pro that that is a me problem, not an everybody problem. Problem, I just I get so irritated and frustrated that I'll just start setting the hook trying to hook them just because I know it doesn't feel good for them to get hooked.

Capt. John Halkias 22:10

The one fish by us, Rich, now that we've segued into this topic, that always fools me. Uh not when you're fighting it up, you pretty much know, but on the bite itself, and maybe I'll do a visual with my hand. This is literally how they bite. Any idea? The skates.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 22:29

I always get fooled by skates.

Capt. John Halkias 22:31

Always. So it feels like a fluke hit. Yeah. You set the hook, the rod is bent with weight, like a fluke. Yeah. And you have that moment where, oh, you just caught a 10-pound fluke, and then about a third of the way up, when it's not fighting back, you're like, damn, I gotta skate.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 22:49

Yeah. I always get fooled by them too. And I always set them. Yeah, I I get excited too. And it used to be when I before I ever caught a big fluke where I knew, oh, it's just a skate. It's just a skate. But now that I I know what big fluke feels like, I think, oh my god, it's a big one. And then I'm like, it's not fighting, it's not shaking, it's just kind of coasting.

Capt. John Halkias 23:13

Well, there's sometimes big fluke will fool you too, because sometimes the biggest fluke I ever caught, I thought I foul hooked something. It didn't, it didn't give any headshakes. It didn't, it it gave me one or two of those big thumps, but that was it. And I thought, no, this can't be a fluke.

Speaker 2 23:30

Yeah.

Capt. John Halkias 23:31

So sometimes the big ones fight lazy. I don't know if that's the right word, but they don't they don't really have those aggressive headshakes like like almost every other fluke has.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 23:42

So I have a video on the on this channel where I caught I was I was talking about where the boats were next to me. I'm in the kayak. I'm like, they're just they're just a little too far over, like they're 10 feet too far over. And then the next thing you know, I am like they need to be right here. And then I pull up a 25-26-inch fluke right there. It was the worst fight I ever had. It was just it, it was it was a lot of weight, and but it didn't, it literally didn't fight. It was the easy it's the easiest thing ever. But then you get the 16 inchers that you don't want, and they're like shaken, and you're you're all excited, and you pull it up, and you're like, Wow, that's that's not even close to a keeper, you know, maybe a 17-incher, where you know you're thinking sometimes those little ones are the most aggressive fighters. It's like the striped bass. Yeah, you get they're more aggressive when they're smaller. Oh, great. You you get the better fight out of them. All right, let's see. Has anyone ever tried? Let me put this on question from Vinny G. Has anyone ever tried to remelt Bit Off Gulp back into grubs again?

Capt. John Halkias 24:48

Have you ever tried a joke question? Because I I I'm not even sure how you would do that unless you have a degree in chemistry.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 24:55

You can't. It's impossible. It's impossible.

Capt. John Halkias 25:00

The way that response or Great Bay Outfitters had a good question.

Making Big Fluke Commit

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 25:04

Yeah, trying to skip through and get these verses. Have you ever tried otter tail after the grub tail gets ripped off? Leave the grub body on and add the otter tail.

Capt. John Halkias 25:17

Yes. Well, we used to do it all the time. I don't know why we don't do it anymore. It's kind of stupid because those don't come off with anything. The the other thing that I've tried, again, harking back to Roger, he makes the the metal spinners, which you can after the tail on the grub gets spit off, you can literally screw in the spinners, and he's done great with them. I've not done as well, albeit in a very limited sample.

Speaker 2 25:47

Right.

Capt. John Halkias 25:47

And of course, the one big thing is what happens if the fish takes the whole gulp and you've now you've introduced a metal substance into that fish. I I you know that that's why Skinner won't try though, because I I had that conversation when Skinner saw me using it one time, and that was his big concern. I'm not sure if they would just digest it out, it's not that big.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 26:07

But uh you would think so. Yeah, but they're also I don't know. It's just the same, like you don't want to leave a hook in anything. Yeah, yes, it could come out, but it could also get stuck, yeah. And then and then it kills them. I I haven't thought yeah, so you're talking where you just twist it on, yeah.

Capt. John Halkias 26:25

Yeah, yeah. But back to the otter tales, we used them very successfully for years. I don't know why we we abandoned them. I don't have a good reason why.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 26:35

I've never I've never used otter tails, really. I mean, I've used them, but I've never used them as like a strategy.

Capt. John Halkias 26:42

To be clear, we didn't use them. They they were to once the tail got ripped, you could then add them to the hook on either the bucktail or the teaser, and it would emulate that wavy tail action of the of the grub, and you would still have the scent theoretically from the main body of the of the gulp grub.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 27:06

Well, hell, I have like I can't tell you how many containers of just bodies I have. I I you know what I I'm gonna do that. I'll go out and buy some outer.

Capt. John Halkias 27:16

It definitely 100% work. That if you go back into like the Skinner archives from 2017 or 18, you'll you'll see them being used to great success. I also have clients from Jersey who absolutely refused to rechange their gulps this year, and they said in all their testing in Jersey, it made no difference if the if the grub had a tail or it didn't have a tail, they would still catch fluke. And they did it with me, and it was like 50-50 the fish they were catching on full grubs or or the cut grubs. And then Skinner was running short on gulp, and he wasn't changing them. He had a video last year about this, and he was catching fluke, keeper fluke, just with the with the chopped grubs.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 28:03

So that has so that has to go to the quality of the bucktail and the design of the bucktail, then, right? Because it it's it's gotta be the movement, right? You're still getting the movement, you're just not getting the tail movement.

Capt. John Halkias 28:16

Right. Or the action that the angler's imparting on that bucktail. And you know, Skinner has that exaggerated technique where you know he's violently vibrating that rod tip and really causing that that bait down there to flutter. Right. So maybe it's less important if if that's the style you're you're you're using. I don't know.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 28:37

That's interesting. See, I I don't do that. It's too much for me. I don't have the forearms for the skinner, skinner technique. I will do it every once in a while, but I can't do it all day like him. I'm watching his videos, I'm like, I I don't get it. I I can't do it.

Capt. John Halkias 28:51

Yeah. So we we have a theory about that technique. That technique definitely seems to catch more fluke, but it seems like bigger fluke, meaning like double-digit fluke. Like the person I know who has the most double-digit fluke is Doc. And Doc uses the softest tip rods, and he he we call it the blind man. He he doesn't even go up and down, he just looks like a blind man with a with a cane.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 29:19

Just moving around.

Capt. John Halkias 29:21

And we are sure there's no real action on that bucktail deep. And the the the story we've always been told is that the big fluke are lazy predators, they hide behind rocks, they're buried in the sand if you're not in a rocky area, and they're waiting for the easiest prey to swim over them and they ambush it. I mean, it makes sense, right? And would you rather hit something that's going, you know, all spastic, or would you something that's just lazily, you know, in a straight line coming right over you? Is that what you're gonna hit?

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 29:48

Yeah, that I mean it's a good point when you think about the biology. You know, the larger the larger fluke, they need more calories to stay alive, so they don't want to be chasing, you know, the same size small things around. So if something big comes over nice and lazy, I could see that I could see that being true. I don't know if it is, but it does make sense if you think about it.

Capt. John Halkias 30:07

Yeah, I mean I again the amount of fluke I've seen Skinner catch in you know the this the tenth year I'm fishing with him quantity, yes. Sometimes big fish, yeah. You know, I I I know a couple people that probably have done better in terms of more big fish, but nowhere near the the quantity or or necessarily the quality, because he does get quality, yeah, and he's had quite a few double digits, but for the amount of time on the water, certainly way less than Doc, and Doc has over 10. It it raises the question maybe if you're in a tournament and you're you're really trying to get that 10-pounder, you know, maybe dragging the bottom is the way to go.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 30:56

Yeah, and here I am with zero 10 pounders. Well, I only have one, so I got work to do, I gotta catch up.

Reel Choices That Survive Fluking

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 31:08

Yeah, sorry, my computer's trying to reload this browser for some reason. Oh yeah, but that would not be good. That would not be good at all.

Capt. John Halkias 31:17

Um and Joseph Kylie said Skinner probably now sponsored by Gulp. There goes the Otter Tale. He was he was not ever sponsored by Gulp. I I promise you, he's not sponsored by Gulp. He buys gulp like the rest of us, although I think occasionally, like with the orange gulp, they they will. If there's some color that they want out, they they might send himself but otherwise, just like us, he's he's buying them. He does not get them for free. I I promise, I swear on anything holy, that that is a misnomer. Yeah, just like Acura's for the thousands and thousands, if not tens of thousands, of Acurous reels he sold, you know, for them. And yeah, he includes an affiliate dis affiliate link and he'll get one to nine percent. I think sports stuff is maybe two or three percent off Amazon. He's never once gotten a penny from quantum for that.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 32:06

So yeah, it's amazing to me. I mean, he he is a very big part of both of those, and he's not, you know, he's not I don't know. They they if they were smart, they would have leveraged that.

Capt. John Halkias 32:19

Well, we'll we'll see what happens because I I would have thought it it would have been out by now, but there there is some news coming out with dark matter and a competitor to Acuraus that's gonna be a sturdier, better built version of that reel, which which really has become a disposable reel.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 32:39

Yes, yes.

Capt. John Halkias 32:40

I'm just sick of buying them. I they last one season, and you know, I I got reached out to by PissiFund, which is a Chinese company. Yes, but I've been using their reels for years now. I bought them on my own. I just I just got two more in that I paid for. Yeah, they don't break, and they have more power and they're cheaper.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 33:00

And they don't have the good, they don't have as good of a release, though.

Capt. John Halkias 33:05

So they they have if you get the 300 size, there's a button that you press and it pops it up. So you can do it one-handed.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 33:13

Right.

Capt. John Halkias 33:14

It's it's a little it's a little weird, but uh it's not as simple as the Acura's where you just let go of the thumb bar. So you hit the thumb bar down, the line goes down, and then you just move your thumb, I don't know, a half inch to the right and hit a button there, and it it engages the clutch again. So you don't have to take your other hand and engage the clutch that way.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 33:34

Yeah, and that that's big. I'll tell you what, with my Acuarus, I spend every year, twice a year, I have to do I have to take it apart and do some major like oiling, greasing, cleaning, and everything of it because it just stops working. It just doesn't, it just doesn't work right. It's I mean it's overused, definitely, but yeah, I'd I I would love to see another another brand come out with something that's a a direct competitor to it.

Gulp Versus Bait Tide Decisions

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 34:01

Here's a question from Carl. You like using gulp better than meat strips, and why?

Capt. John Halkias 34:07

Yeah, I I that for me or you, Rich. I I'm happy to answer.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 34:11

Well, I think we both should answer this one.

Capt. John Halkias 34:14

Okay, I'll go first. So I used me for years, and uh, you know, I even when before I knew Skinner, I would use me. And in in his last book, Skinner talks about how when he met us, you know, we brought gulp, but he could tell we had brought bait too, and we were really fishing the bait. And we'd you know, we'd seen all the videos, and in I think in our brain it was just like, well, where he's fishing, you know, there's so many fluke that you can catch them on either. Right. But then we saw firsthand how they outfished, you know, the the the killer, the spearing and squid that we historically used, and at the time they were a lot more durable. And we I think also we had a lot less sea bass and interference fish than we do now. And we slowly adapted. And I I I can't imagine going back, although once in a blue moon, just just to see if something else will work, I will I will try squid. I haven't really bought spearing unless clients have asked me to bring it. I will bring it if they ask. Because again, the spearing, the the amount of interference fish we have between the sea vests and the sea robins and dogfish and everything else, it's just a recipe for losing your bait. But that's the reason I switched. I I saw firsthand how more effective the gulp was. And just a really funny story. 2017, I had known my friend Rick. He's got that big aluminum boat, the blue jay skinner fishes on it a lot. I fish on it quite a bit too on my videos. He pulled up next to us in Montauk. We were on my old boat. It was me, Skinner, Doc, and John Sweeney. And Rick pulled up next to us. He saw us out there, and he knew me. He didn't know the other guys. And he was with a friend of his and he said, How many fish do you guys have? And we're like, Oh, we're limited. And they're like, No, you're not. And well, how many do you have? We have one. And at that moment, we bring up another keeper and we release it right in front of him, and he couldn't believe it. Yeah, and they're using squid and spearing, and he invited us on his boat the next week, and that's how that was the first time Skinner ever fished with him. And he, when he saw what we were doing, and he had brought a lot of live bait on that trip. He he literally brought baby bunker, his son threw a cast then and got all this great live bait that they kept alive, and it did not do crap against the against the gulp. And he switched then, and he hasn't looked back. So again, it's just from our personal that's a long-winded way, Carl, of saying personal experience.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 36:53

Yeah. So for me, I the meat strips I don't use because well, for a couple of reasons. First, I'm on a kayak, I don't want to bring anything frozen because it will be ruined whether I use it or not that day. You know, you can only keep things so cold on a kayak. And I'll fish for you know 10, 12 hours at a time. So for that, I'm not using meat strips unless it's fresh and I decide to cut something up that I catch as bycatch. But if I'm fishing a tournament, I do always bring minnows. And I have great success with minnows, and the best fish I've ever entered into tournaments have been on those. And I well, not necessarily those, also live spot. I will fish up spot and then I will put them onto a onto a different hook for a tournament. I don't do that unless I'm fishing a tournament though. But I definitely catch more fish on the gulp. It's just something in my head that tells me get minnows, bring minnows, and I'll tow them around with me all day and I'll use them. And you know, I don't necessarily start with them though. Like I said earlier, I always start with the gulp shrimp and then with the jerk shad up top, but I will from time to time put it on. But I don't, I don't know. I I meet strips, I just don't do to me. It's just an invitation for skates, and I just don't want to have that floating around in a kayak with me. It's just not not my thing.

Capt. John Halkias 38:22

That's why we stopped for the most part. We still do, but for the most part, we've stopped using like sea robin strips, bluefish strips, which was a big deal at one point.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 38:33

Yes.

Capt. John Halkias 38:34

The amount of that was like the biggest dogfish attractor on earth. If you drop a bluefish strip, which everybody swears will catch big fluke, it will, it will catch big dogfish too, and it'll cause more havoc on the boat than yeah, yeah.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 38:50

And once it's it's like tog fishing, once you get on the dogfish, you know, and mostly spiny dogfish in that case, but once you get them and they're interested, you're done. You may as well just move because they don't move around by themselves. It's not like a brown shark showing up all by itself, you know. You get one brown shark, you you get one dogfish, you know, there's 34 other ones just waiting down there. So yeah, I just don't like that. I just don't like that. I do I prefer artificials whenever possible, but I will bring live bait as a backup for a tournament and have that available. But I also I won't go out of my way for it either. So, as an example, I like fishing behind Seven Mile Island in South Jersey, so that's Avalon and Stone Harbor. There's no bait shops left, there's none. And the the one that claims to be a bait shop, I argue isn't. It's really a sandwich shop. I don't even think they have minnows. So I'm not gonna stop somewhere and cart them, you know, 50 miles on the way to the water. If it's not easy, I'm not doing it. And I don't feel like I'm missing anything when I hit the water. As long as I have enough gulp to get through the day, I feel good. Yeah, that's that's kind of where I come down on it. All right, let's see the next one. We're gonna we're gonna close this up pretty soon. I'll just do this one real quick. Circle or J hook when using spot for bait. If I'm using spot, it's typically in a tournament, and it's only in tournaments where I can have a second rod and I fish it on a circle hook. So that's my answer. I would not put it on a J-hook just because I don't have it in my hands and I don't want to gut hook any fish, especially a fluke. So that's that's my answer for that. You can use both, but circle, I I'm a big fan of circle hooks. I have been for decades. Before they were a thing, they were one of my things. So even for striped bass, let's see. Tide determines what they're hitting. Okay. While it's great that you state gulp might be the better bait, I still feel that tide determines what they're hitting. I I would say to some extent it does, but you have to think why does why would tide impact what they're biting? Now, for John, I'm gonna say it's different. The tide necessarily won't matter because you're not in the backwaters, and the same bait that's going through at uh the outgoing is the same bait coming through at the incoming, right?

Capt. John Halkias 41:29

Well, I I wonder if Bob's talking about Shinnekock. I I know Bob who's Robert Storms. Uh I see him on the water all the time in Pecanic Bay, but I know he he fishes a lot of different areas. I I definitely agree with what you said though, Rich, for Montauk and some of the other areas. I'm not sure it makes a difference, but I would imagine for shallow water makes a big difference.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 41:50

Okay, he's he's saying Shinnikock. For me, it's a big difference. If it's outgoing, I like crabs, I like shrimp, I like the things that are coming off the sodbanks into those backwater areas. If it's incoming, I'm typically fishing a fish pattern. So that's where I'm using jerk baits more often than I'm using, you know, even grubs. I typically to me, that's an outgoing bait. I'm typically using, you know, something that looks like a mullet or something like that on the incoming because that's typically what's coming in at that time. So I I can see that. Is there anything that we're missing on this?

Capt. John Halkias 42:27

No, I I I like this format. I I it it was nice. It's much easier just shooting the you know what, the shiitake about fishing and not necessarily worried about uh you know educating, which as I mentioned in our pre pre-game little chat is is not something I'm comfortable doing for fluke. I am much more comfortable doing that with uh light tackle uh tog fishing, right? Um, you know.

Opening Day Plans And Sign Off

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 42:56

Yeah, I I looked at this, and for everyone, so you know, John and I talked, and we were looking at this as more of hey, the season's about to get going. People are going to be hitting the water specifically for Fluke, and I know a lot of you, I mean, I I got multiple text just came in two minutes ago from somebody who's not even watching, or at least I haven't seen in the comments, just saying that they're they are getting their stuff ready for next week. So I am too. I'm excited. I have my battery on the charger in the garage for the kayak, for the fish finder that barely even works, but I'm bringing it anyway. I've got my that's there you go. In the closet behind me, behind those curtains, I have all of my yeah, I got all of my bucktails in there right now because I was messing around with them uh a couple nights ago. I got done doing some work for a client and I just pulled them out and I started, you know, packing them up for for next Monday. So I'm excited. Hopefully everybody is getting excited about whether it's fluke or not, just the the opening of Better weather coming soon, better temperatures, more enjoyable times on the water. You'll get to get out with friends that are now going to be more comfortable taking time off to hit the water. You know, it's tough to sometimes get people to go out in the spring, but tis the season, my people. This is when we're all going to be on the water seeing each other and having fun. So um, thank you very much, John, for coming on. I appreciate having me.

Capt. John Halkias 44:25

Always fun, Rich.

Rich Natoli - Fat Dad Fishing 44:26

Yeah, I had a good time. Hopefully, everybody else did. Everyone, again, continue to send me pictures. I did get a couple pictures of the black drum that were caught last week. So glad to see some people uh pulling in some of the drum. It's time, well, by the next time that we talk, I will just be getting off the water next week. And we're probably just going to do a recap of opening day fluke in New Jersey and New York. And uh, so hopefully we can get some participation. Everybody, until then, get out there, get on the water, and get some tight lines.