Lead On with Greg & Mark (LOwGaM)
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Lead On with Greg & Mark (LOwGaM)
S5: E11 Turning Complaints into Catalysts for Improving Leadership and Engagement
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This episode explores the critical value of employee complaints and how they are signals of engagement, indicating areas needing attention in the workplace. Leaders are encouraged to foster a culture of two-way communication and adopt practical strategies for addressing feedback effectively.
• Understanding that complaints reveal employee engagement
• Creating a trusting culture for open dialogue
• Acknowledging and validating employee feelings
• Importance of avoiding quick fixes
• Asking open-ended questions to encourage discussion
• Focusing on future solutions rather than immediate fixes
• Committing to follow-up actions and maintaining communication
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Importance of Employee Complaints in Organizations
Speaker 1You're listening to Lead On with Greg and Mark , brought to you by the Pennsylvania Association of Intermediate Units . Join us this season as we engage in conversations on leading on through times of complexity . Now for your hosts , Greg and Mark . Let's go gregory .
Speaker 2Hi there , mark hoffman , how are you wonderful . I have a question . I may have an answer gregory , are you a complainer ? I consider myself not to be a complainer .
Speaker 3A complainer , I consider myself not to be a complainer , but it depends on other how other people see me . Where , in what context are you complaining the most ? Do you complain a lot at home ?
Speaker 2only when I'm hangry . Oh , you're hangry if I'm hangry . If I'm hungry , you're whiny I do . And then and my wife knows that immediately- you gotta get some blood sugar up . We got to get dad his coffee or get him something to eat .
Speaker 3That's so funny . I love that . Yeah , but you try not to be a complainer , I try not to be . I think if he was a go with the flow guy .
Speaker 2I try to go with the flow .
Speaker 3Yeah , I think as a dad of three and you know an administrator , I think you kind of have to sometimes . You know I complain privately , like you know I complain to you sometimes , obviously . I complained to my wife about things , but usually not in a public context . And , uh , I'm not like one of those like people like in a restaurant that's going to make a scene , I don't think . Yeah .
Speaker 1That's not my thing .
Speaker 3The reason I asked about complaining is I've got this little blog post here from December 4th 2024 . Um , a blog I subscribe to called Leadership Freak . I think a lot of people subscribe to that . I actually think he's in Pennsylvania writing these things . He just shoots out these missives every couple of days , things he's thinking about . This one is all about employee complaints . Seven responses to employee complaints . So full credit to Leadership Freak .
Speaker 3We're going to just break down some of his ideas here , and I like how he starts it . He says things are worse than you fear when you aren't hearing complaints . I'm going to say that again Things are worse than you fear inside your organization . I'm inserting those words when you aren't hearing complaints , people are lying . If they're not complaining , culture is broken , fear blocks honesty or people are disengaged .
Speaker 3Tension bubbles below the surface when leaders aren't hearing complaints . I think that's cool . And then he's got this graphic and it says employee complaints indicate that people care about something . If they're not complaining , I don't know that it means they don't care , but if they are complaining , it means that something that they care enough about is bothering them that they're letting you know , or something that they care enough about is bothering them that they're letting you know , or something that they care enough about , is not quite right . That they want you to know , they want you to do something about it , and so I think as , like a young leader , I would often shy away from the idea of someone telling me something critical about the organization . I've grown to love it and appreciate it to his point .
Speaker 2Okay , so , dr Hoffman , do you have a mechanism set up whereby employees can share their concerns , share their ? We've tried lots of different things .
Speaker 3We've tried like suggestion boxes , forms , all this stuff . None of that works right All of that's artificial .
Speaker 2I was going to say that won't work .
Speaker 3And this is like the biggest non-answer that there ever will be . But you have to create a culture where people trust that if they share something negative , they're not going to be retaliated against or held accountable or , even worse , if they share something that nothing happens . Right , if people are screaming into a box and it feels like they're just yelling at the wind , they're not going to continue to do that . You got to cultivate a leadership team that allows for honest , two-way communication with everybody in the organization , and then you got to have people in place to take action when they hear things that aren't right , to fix them . Okay , if you don't do those things , then you'll never hear complain again because people will say why bother ?
Speaker 2You know what I mean ? Yeah , yeah , absolutely .
Speaker 3So it's kind of a non-answer right . But , like I think it's the leadership team here , I think we have I don't think we have a leadership team here that is responsive to two-way communication with the people they support .
Speaker 2I think that's a great culture . I know you think it's a soft response but I think it's actually very good . I I think , uh , you're setting up that culture where you have those people like your , your leaders . They have that ability within their teams . Yeah , to help work this out and I and I would say , if something needs to be elevated it comes to me obviously yeah , but a lot of .
Speaker 3I'm sure a lot of times it's worked out at that department level yeah , listen , and I'm biased , right , I work here and I'm biased right , I work here , right . So I obviously think the people that work here .
Speaker 2You're your biggest fan , dr Howard . Well , I'm the biggest fan of this organization , that's for sure . I'm a big fan as well .
Speaker 3I'm a big fan of the people that work here , and that's who . I'm a little biased , right . Yeah , sure , sure . And are there people here that feel like their complaints go unheard ?
Speaker 3Absolutely , absolutely , I'm not naive , but I think , by and large , our organization has made incremental improvements over the last 10 years , over the last 20 years , because I think we take the feedback seriously , like we're undergoing a bit of a little renovation right now . It's because people were complaining about their workspaces , not in an inappropriate way , but in a way that we had to listen and say you know , they have a point , we need new carpet , we need new workspaces , we need things that are modern for 2025 , not the stuff that we had from the 80s , right , like , like we listened , we responded , or at least we tried to .
Speaker 2You know what I'm saying I definitely know what you're saying . We actually had this conversation with our leadership team yesterday . We were talking about student space . So so , talking about our schools , uh , the classroom space , um , all those kinds of things , and when students , just like you're saying with staff , when they take pride in their environment , it's going to go a further way .
Speaker 3Yeah .
Speaker 2Because and like what you're doing here to improve their , their work environment is going to you know what you would hope is . It's going to make for happier employees , more efficient , more efficient , sure .
Speaker 3People that have greater pride in their workplace , more comfortable , safer , right , all those things . So I think the lesson here that resonated with me like why , of all the blog posts this guy's put out and of all the things that we could be talking about , why I like this one I didn't understand as a young administrator that you need to surround yourself with people who are willing to tell you the truth , and a complaint is someone's version of the truth . You might not agree with it , but if someone's willing to tell you something that makes you uncomfortable or that might be difficult , that person is an asset . That's the person to be embraced . A lot of times , leaders surround themselves with yes people and a yes person doesn't complain and a yes person doesn't tell their boss the truth . The yes person only tells their boss what the boss wants to hear you know what's the worst about that ?
Speaker 2yeah , it's because in front of you and or in that meeting space , you think everything's fine , yeah , and then they would go back to one of somebody in their department or another staff member and then say something opposite .
Speaker 3Yeah , like we call those parking lot conversations Parking lot conversations the meeting .
Speaker 2After the meeting yes , right .
Speaker 3Yeah , so I don't know . We all know people that surround themselves with . Yes , people and their organizations suffer as a result . If you put some contrarians on your team , people that are willing to tell you that you're a little off , you're going to get so much better . It's not that I avoided it , but I definitely didn't embrace it for the value that it brings . I didn't understand it and now I fully understand and embrace it , as difficult and as uncomfortable it might be Right .
Speaker 2Well , it's good , because then there's no surprises .
Speaker 3No , surprises , right , and I think if people feel like they have a forum for providing honest feedback , even in the form of a complaint , they're less likely to talk about it outside of that context . To your point , there's fewer parking lot conversations if they can just talk to you . Sure , sure , yeah , I love that .
Speaker 2So he's got seven things . Take number one , okay . So what I like about this blog , it's what are the seven responses to the employee complaint ? So the first say thanks for bringing this up . So just simply , thanks for bringing this up . Thanks for bringing this to my attention .
Speaker 3Yeah , affirm the person , acknowledge the fact that you heard them right and thank them for bringing it up . Thank you for making me aware Right , yeah , it validates it . It also reinforces that it's an acceptable behavior .
Effective Listening and Employee Support
Speaker 3Number two is let people know their feelings matter . Apologize , even if you didn't do anything wrong . Oh my gosh , I'm so sorry that happened to you . Oh my gosh , I'm so sorry that you had that experience or whatever .
Speaker 2And this one sounds hokey . And I'll be honest , it sounds hokey but it is so important . Yeah , because otherwise I mean we can't . How can we , as in a leadership position , look at them and say that their feelings don't matter ? Yeah , like we're not them , yeah , so they're obviously interpreting in some way . That's upsetting them . Yeah , customer service people do this all the time we have to have respect for why their feelings , how they're upset , why they're upset .
Speaker 3When you call customer service to complain about bad service or broken product , you need to return . The sales rep on the other phone always says oh my gosh , thank you for calling . I'm so sorry that happened . They didn't break it , but they're still apologizing . They're owning it . Yeah , I think that's the point . It probably disarms people and lowers the temperature . Yes , you're starting off with thanking them and then you're apologizing to them , so you've already disarmed them twice . Yeah , I think that's the point right .
Speaker 2I would agree .
Speaker 3You're validating them and you're acknowledging that this is acceptable . Now , this isn't about people being belligerent , of course , right . This is about people giving an honest complaint or honest feedback . This isn't about people acting ridiculous . We're not going to thank people for acting ridiculous and we're not going to thank people for acting ridiculous and we're not going to apologize for people who act ridiculous .
Speaker 2All right , number three Okay , avoid offering quick solutions . So don't say explanations . Make you seem out of touch to those who feel unheard Justifications feel like indifference .
Speaker 3Yeah , that's interesting . We talked about this a couple episodes ago , where I had to learn that you don't always offer a solution to a problem . Sometimes people just want to vent .
Speaker 2Yes .
Speaker 3So he's telling you this right here Avoid offering quick solutions . They make you seem out of touch and they feel like indifference . Yeah , so just listen , just listen . And then he goes on to say ask questions . So instead of offering solutions , he says ask questions instead . Gentle curiosity feels like compassion . Complaints are opportunities to help people feel heard . Statements express authority . You don't want that bite your tongue . Even if you can't think of a question , say tell me more , tell me more , tell me more . Thanks for bringing that up . I'm sorry that happened . Could you tell me more about that ? Could you help me understand ?
Speaker 2I think that's a real simple set of strategies to use that will help you get through this and it gives them more opportunity to talk , to talk , you're going to learn a lot more .
Speaker 3Yeah , keep going .
Speaker 2Okay , turn to the future . So suppose employees complain that they aren't supported . Ask them what does support look like to you ? Other forward-facing questions include asking how can I help but don't do people's jobs for them ?
Speaker 3Yeah , so it's not . How can I do this for you ? How can I solve this problem ? It's , how can I help you .
Speaker 3There's that old Harvard Business Review Journal article about the monkeys on the back and how a novice or inexperienced or ineffective manager listens to a long line of complaints every day from their subordinates and the subordinates walk in with these problems called monkeys on their back . That's the analogy . And rather than taking the monkey and analyzing it and giving it back to the employee to carry out of the office , an inexperienced manager says I'll tell you what , let me deal with that , let me do that . And by the end of the day , the manager's got everybody else's monkeys except including their own , and everybody else just went home scot-free with no responsibility . The effective manager says let's examine the monkey , let's put it back on your back so that when you walk out of here you leave with your problem , but just in a better position to solve it Right . And I think a lot of inexperienced managers think it's their job to solve everybody's problems .
Speaker 3Back to our earlier conversation about just listening . Yes , all right , identify one key behavior that needs to happen the next time . Don't try to solve everything . Move forward right . So even if you could just narrow it down to one thing that needs to change oh my gosh , I'm so sorry that happened to you . I'm going to personally make sure that we have soap in the bathrooms . I'm so sorry that the soap dispenser was empty or there were no paper towels , or I'm so sorry that the trash was left behind . We're going to create a schedule to make sure that we . Those are real simple things , right ? Yes , I'm making this up , by the way . And what's the last one ?
Speaker 2Last one is set a follow-up meeting when appropriate , and that's not even a must there . So if it rises to the occasion that you need to have a follow-up meeting , do that and it just shows , it further conveys , that you're here to help and it shows that there's going to be follow-up on . What are the next steps ?
Speaker 3Yeah , he says be understanding and focus on progress . I like that one right . Like , sometimes people complain and they expect an immediate resolution or they expect that their solution is going to be the solution that you choose . That's not the answer at all . Right , you've brought a problem to my attention . We're going to work it out . If it is my problem to solve , I'm going to solve it the way that it needs to be solved according to the best interest of the organization , through my lens , and it might not happen overnight Right , it might not happen overnight , and you need to communicate that . Progress is also an indication of taking the issue seriously , even if it's not resolved as quickly as that person wants .
Speaker 2I'd agree .
Speaker 3Yeah , all
Embracing Feedback for Organizational Growth
Speaker 3right . So those are seven things in this quick episode of Lean On with Greg and Mark that you can use to respond to employee complaints . I think the big key here , though , for me , regardless of the response , is to surround yourself with people who are willing to tell you when something's not right . We're calling it a complaint for the purposes of this episode , but it could just be the truth .
Speaker 3Let's say , people who are willing to tell you when things aren't right , and I think the author's point here leadership freak . He's saying that if people never come to you with a concern or a complaint , then they're lying to you by omission . And there's a bigger issue . There's a bigger issue that people don't trust you , or you're too quick to jump in and solve the problem , or you don't ask the right questions , or you get angry and defensive . All these things , these statements , help to control , for so if you're in a position and no one's ever telling you anything , that isn't all just you know peaches and cream and roses and and rainbows and unicorns there's probably something wrong in your organization I'd agree .
Speaker 2yeah , I'd agree all there's some hidden issues there .
Speaker 3Definitely . So what do you say ? We wrap this one up . What's the pearl of wisdom you've got from that list of outros ? Pearl of wisdom , here we go .
Speaker 2Logam , listeners , keep leading , keep learning and keep laughing , just not all at the same time . This has been Logam , logam out , greg and Mark out . You left me speechless .
Speaker 3I want to complain about that one . You want to complain , yeah ?
Speaker 2Well , I appreciate that complaint . Thanks for bringing this up .
Speaker 3Maybe we can talk about it at a later date . That's not what it says . It says to ask questions . I don't want to ask any questions . We're out of time , you're out of touch , out of time All notes , yeah , oh nice .
Speaker 2You're out of touch .
Speaker 3I'm out of time .
Speaker 2Okay , enough , goodbye , bye .
