Lead On with Greg & Mark (LOwGaM)
We invite you to join us as we talk about the world of leadership during times of complexity.
Lead On with Greg & Mark (LOwGaM)
S5: E12 Navigating Success Behind the Scenes
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Leadership isn't just about being in charge; it’s about recognizing the invaluable contributions of those behind the scenes. In this episode, we discuss how empowering team members, mentoring, sharing credit, and embracing transparency are key to successful leadership.
• Importance of recognizing unsung heroes
• Recap of the last episode on complaints
• Personal anecdote about a movie experience
• Empowering team members within a safe environment
• Significance of mentorship and sponsorship
• Promoting inclusivity and shared success
• Fostering transparency and authenticity in leadership
• The need for leaders to take responsibility for team failures
• Celebrating collective achievements rather than individual accolades
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Leadership and Music Industry Insights
Speaker 1You're listening to Lead On with Greg and Mark , brought to you by the Pennsylvania Association of Intermediate Units . Join us this season as we engage in conversations on leading on through times of complexity . Now for your hosts , Greg and Mark .
Speaker 2Was I bothering your tinea .
Speaker 3No , I think you brought me joy . Did I bring you joy ? Brought me joy ? How was that ? I would never complain about you .
Speaker 2Oh , that's good to know I'm so glad , said with such sincerity , I would never complain about you . Oh , that's good to know . I'm so glad . Said with such sincerity , that's good that brought me some closure .
Speaker 3The last episode was all about complaints .
Speaker 1It was about complaints . Do you want to role play me ?
Speaker 3complaining a little bit . Sure , do you have that still ?
Speaker 1out , here we go . Are you ready ?
Speaker 2I'm going to complain . Let's see if you can model the seven things from the last episode , greg .
Speaker 3I'd like to bring something up .
Speaker 2Well , okay , what is that ?
Speaker 3I don't like it when you clap and beatbox during the intros .
Speaker 2Well , thanks for bringing this up . Please know that your feelings matter .
Speaker 3I'm waiting for my apology , part two .
Speaker 2I'm very sorry that I disturbed your tinea .
Speaker 3Will you please stop doing it .
Speaker 2I can't promise you that , but I will think about it .
Speaker 3You're coming tonight . You're supposed to ask me questions . Okay , all right .
Speaker 2So what is it that bothers you about my beatboxing ?
Speaker 3We need to practice this . Tell me more , tell me more .
Speaker 2Yeah , help me understand . Should we set up a follow-up meeting to discuss this ?
Speaker 3You should . And then you know it says here from the last episode that you focus on progress . Yes , you have reduced the amount .
Speaker 2Yeah , that is progress .
Speaker 3I just can't help myself . You put a microphone in front of you and you just , you just can't help yourself , just amazing . Yeah , hey . So , um , just a little magic behind the scenes here at lead on magic , magic behind the scenes of our off the off the recording conversations that we're having on on recording on on microphone .
Speaker 2You know , uh , this is actually one of my favorite topics behind the scenes . And go ahead . I wanted to tell you a little bit about first of all , uh .
Speaker 3I took uh ian yeah , my son ian and my brother steve to go see a complete unknown .
Speaker 2So the new dylan movie all right , and I was thinking about that during the time , how important it is everything that goes into a movie production . Okay , not only that , but when you look at an artist , a musician like Bob Dylan , all of those supporting musicians , and it was just , it was a neat movie . It was a neat experience to be there , both with my brother but with my son , to go through that and have it . Timothy Chalamet .
Speaker 3Yeah .
Speaker 2He did fantastic . And what was great is his character , and I'm sorry I don't remember the Joan Baez character , but they was their actual voices , that they were saying I was impressed with that . It was a little bit Hollywood at times , but um , I I loved how he did music for himself . He didn't , he wasn't allowing society or people to tell him what kind of music to play . He played what he wanted and he wanted to go electric . And this is it's between the years 1961 and 1965 .
Speaker 3Is that where he plugs in ?
Speaker 2Where he plugs in , and it was . It keeps revisiting the mutual places that Newport Folk Festival . And that's where this all occurs in 1965 . So it's neat how that all comes together . But I thought about so much about those supporting musicians and how great it sounded . You look at music how much those supporting musicians bring to the table to make a beautiful song .
Speaker 3Yeah , and they're often uncredited . They're often uncredited . You usually don't know who they are . Yeah , yeah , yeah , like yeah .
Speaker 2So in this case , when we talk about leadership , you have all of these behind the scenes people .
Speaker 3If you like stories about behind the scenes music , right , yes , a , there's a documentary on hbo right now , hbo max all about yacht rock . You know yacht rock like the doobie brothers , um toto , um michael mcdonald , like those bands , yep , steely , dan I keep fucking yeah , that's it right yeah .
Speaker 3So , if you like that premise of the people that are behind the scenes , the unsung heroes that make it all work , as opposed to just the title artist , it's a short documentary all about how the same essential group of people , the small network of musicians , created an entire sound , and the people that were actually on the records are not necessarily the people that are on the name of the album ah so like um , the guys that are in toto were all studio musicians recording for for people like steely dan or the doobie brothers or michael jackson , quincy jones , like they're on the thriller album that makes sense
Speaker 3right . But then they're like oh , if we're just doing these per diem jobs playing in a studio , why don't we just start our own band , kind of thing ? Right . But you get a sense of like these five , six , seven , seven , 20 people , whatever it is , they're on like thousands of records and that's how . That's how Motown was too Right . The wrecking crew out in California , like the same person that's playing bass on like a thousand records , but you don't even know their name . Yeah , you know what I mean .
Speaker 2So I just become part of that house band . But it's so interesting because that's what brings the you know , that final product , that success yeah comes from so much , so much time . These behind the scenes people yeah , that's it you know .
Speaker 2So you got an article here from jennifer reesey yeah , jennifer reesey , it goes back to 2016 , so it goes a ways back . But there are five different elements that she talks about and I just wanted to go through each one and just kind of reflect on what we do as leaders to help embrace this , you know , and and highlight the important work they do . So the first one is empower your team , and we've talked about this many , many , many times on this podcast and looking at empowering , we don't really like the word empower , but the fact is is that they need to know that we are setting up an environment where it's a safe environment , where they have that ability to lead . You know they have . You know we're embracing the fact that you do it . This is why you were hired , yeah go and do it .
Speaker 2Go and do it .
Speaker 3Yeah , I was in an interview the other day . I said we're hiring you because we trust you and we expect you to carry the water for this program in your bucket . There's a lot of people here to support you and there's a lot of people here to help you when you're down and help you problem solve . But we're hiring you to do and to lead this really important work .
Speaker 2Yes , so that one . I think it's something we always talk about empowering , but in this case , let let the let the runners run , let the runners run , let the runners run . That's what they were hired to do .
Speaker 3Let's
Mentorship, Sponsorship, and Authentic Leadership
Speaker 3do it . Be a mentor and a sponsor . So , behind the scenes , find those opportunities , she says , to advise as a mentor and to advocate as a sponsor . I like this one too , because this is the stuff that like this is like the coaching that happens . A lot of times .
Speaker 3People think that , like executive coaching , all that stuff means that you're ineffective in your role . Nothing is usually further from the truth . Effective high performers usually surround themselves with coaches and mentors , right ? They're usually hungry for feedback to get better , and so be that . For someone else who's hungry to move up , find your replacement and train them . Right . Find someone who's in a role that you know they're probably destined to outgrow and give them the coaching , the guidance , the feedback and , more importantly to this , like , the opportunities to go and do it and to prove their worth and give them the safety to fail . Give them the feedback to get better . She calls it a sponsor . The vernacular I use here is guardian angel . Like every project sort of needs an executive level guardian angel to get through the bureaucratic nonsense , right ? So be that guardian angel , be that sponsor for someone in their work . Help somebody get through the nonsense of the machine , right ? Uh , give them the opportunities and then facilitate their ability to get it done .
Speaker 2And think about this . All of us had mentors in our life .
Speaker 3Yeah , and those people didn't care about getting credit .
Speaker 2Right , right , right . So we need to be , we have to be mentors to others .
Speaker 3And then to her point , without worrying about getting credit for it .
Speaker 2Yes , we don't need credit .
Speaker 3Yeah , the coaching that you give someone so that they go and they nail a board presentation or a sales presentation or whatever .
Speaker 2It's for the betterment of the organization . It's for the betterment of the company .
Speaker 3It's . Don't be the person that stands up and says , well , I talked to , nobody wants that . No , no , your success is the success of the person you're mentoring . Yes , right , correct , if your heart's in the right spot .
Speaker 2But we all know narcissists who can't stand the idea of somebody else getting the credit we do and that is very counterproductive . It's weird and it's definitely it deflates any kind of good .
Speaker 3Who wants to work for that person ? No . Who wants to work for the attention hog ?
Speaker 2no agreed , agreed . You know what I mean . Yes , definitely go ahead . So the next is the third is be inclusive . So be generous . When thanking and giving credit to your staff , the rule should be to say we , not I . I like this a lot .
Speaker 3Yeah , I like that , and I think this is also back to that point about not being an narcissist . So if you have the great fortune of sharing good news , your organization gets a grant , you get a new contract , you reach a milestone , you complete a major project under budget on time , I think the counsel here is that when you get up to talk about that accomplishment , you don't say I secured a new grant , I closed a sales deal , I secured a new client . That I is like it . It's going to be the only thing .
Speaker 2the people that are listening here right and it's going to put them off yes , they won't even hear what it is that you did because they're going to be like oh I , you did , you did that .
Speaker 3No , especially if you're the leader , yes , right , if you're in charge and you're saying I , I think it's a real insight into that person's psyche and their narcissism and the thing that drives them that they need the attention . And how demotivating for the team who did the work to hear someone above them take credit for it yes , right , especially when it was a team project .
Speaker 2Yeah right , multiple people involved , multiple we secured a new , we secured a grant .
Speaker 3Uh , and , as the leader , even if you played a role in it , everybody expects that you're the leader . We're not there to celebrate you . We're there to celebrate the other people . Yes , it's not about you , right ? It's not about you . The organization having success itself is the metric that people will evaluate you on . The fact that other people are thriving is a reflection of your leadership . You don't need to say it .
Speaker 2Right , I couldn't agree more . And I was just thinking about you with a t-shirt . It's not about me , it's not about me , it's about my team , it's about my organization . And you do , you do , live it , you walk it . I appreciate that . You walk the walk . All one there Go to battle on their behalf . I thought you'd love this one .
Speaker 3Yeah , the best technique for developing loyalty is to be their best defense , to stand behind them when people screw up , when people make mistakes , when people , whether it's honest , have their back right , when something bad happens . If you're the leader , take the heat . That's why you get paid more , that's why you have a better title . Take the heat , have private conversations , but in front of the board , in front of the bosses , it's you . You know there was a .
Speaker 3There is a famous baseball guy , joe Torre coached the Dodgers , coached the Yankees yes , incredibly winning record as a baseball manager . And when he was the manager of the Yankees , he often would talk about this concept . He would say , when things were going well at the press conference , it was easy . He'd get up and he would never take the credit . He would never say , well , the Yankees are winning because of me as the manager . He would give the credit to the owner and the players , the players and the owner . And when things were going poorly , when the Yankees would have those rare streaks , you know where they were not doing well , he always took the heat . It's great .
Speaker 2He always took the heat .
Speaker 3He never took the credit and he always took the heat , and I think that's like , essentially what these five things are saying Be the manager who dishes out the praise , and be the manager who takes the heat and owns it . Yes , and owns it .
Speaker 2Yes , the last one , I I like a lot . So the fifth is always be transparent . Now I'm going to tell our listeners I'm just tired of the word transparent and transparent , so we say it so much thank you for being transparent about that I was very transparent about yeah , my issues with transparent , but I like the word authentic so you're not saying you have an issue with transparency .
Speaker 3You're saying you have an issue with the word .
Speaker 2I just think over you , I think we've overused it I mean we've all sat in those meetings where we do . We do take a bet on how many times we say a certain word transparency is one of the meeting bingo meeting bingo we need to pivot , yes , pivot , yes , exactly we need to be , we need to um circle back .
Speaker 3Yes , right , like I'm just trying to think of all the jargon . Oh my gosh , yeah , we should do an episode on meeting jargon . I would love that , all right . Well , this is one of the many memes out there transparency .
Speaker 2For the last couple years it's been used . Well . We're going to be transparent on this ? Well , I would hope so . Yeah , you know , because we want to be truthful in what we come . Yeah , the opposite .
Speaker 3Yeah , the opposite is like a cover-up , right , Exactly exactly .
Speaker 2So I like the term authentic and in this it does talk about that word . It says transparent and honest . I like the authentic piece when you stand up in front of a group of people own the good , own the bad , put it right out there . Be authentic when it comes to budgets , things like like that . Again , they we always talk about being transparent and putting those kinds of things out there , but it is . It is really an important skill , uh , to do that . When you're hiding something it's going to be eventually , it's going to it's going to make a huge problem .
Speaker 3Yeah , this is this is really about trust .
Speaker 2Yes , oh yeah , oh yeah . Trust with your board , trust with your leadership .
Speaker 3Mutually truthful , mutually transparent relationship is going to be the one that probably matures , that's a good way of looking at it , yeah . I mean and she also says you know things here that truth telling and being transparent the other side to that is being a good listener .
Speaker 3Yep , if you're a good listener , then you're increasing the likelihood that people will tell you things , as opposed to people . If I , if I know you're not going to listen to me , right ? Um , I'm probably going to learn pretty quickly . It's not worth telling you anything , right ? I'm not going to be honest and truthful with you if I don't believe it's going to go anywhere . So , open dialogue , open dialogue , open , honest , two-way dialogue . And then she also just talks about the need to be expeditious .
Speaker 3If there's a problem , tell the person , don't ignore it . Hope is not a strategy , right ? Hoping that a problem goes away is not a strategy for eradicating the problem over the long term . Right , we've talked in previous episodes about some problems need to be ignored . But if you continue to ignore the problem and it continues to stay and then obviously you have to address it I think the ignoring of the problem or avoiding of the problem is only a short-term strategy and if the problem persists , it's going to further come back . Then you got to deal with it , right , exactly . So she gave us these five things . I think they're interesting .
Speaker 3And you know I like this article article because it I think it harkens back . You like that Harkens back . It harkens back to episodes that we've had over the years . These are just concepts that I think are universally true , Like there's nothing salacious , there's nothing controversial here . I think these are just like tried and true universal truths about leadership .
Speaker 2Yeah , I mean they present themselves all the time they do and it's it's good to revisit these as well . You know we've talked about that whole piece of just revisiting . So yeah , great skill there . All right , so we got the five things from Jen Recy . Thank you , jen .
Speaker 3Gregory . So for the last three or four episodes we've been trying out new clothing Outros .
Speaker 1Outros thanks .
Speaker 3It used to be . What was it ?
Speaker 2Make it a great day .
Speaker 3Make it a great day and innovate across the USA , right , of course . How funny that I forgot .
Speaker 2So , we've been trying new ones . It must not have been that good .
Speaker 1No , I don't think it was .
Speaker 3I'd like to complain about our outros .
Speaker 2Come on , they're getting better , they're getting better .
Speaker 3They're getting something . Are you ready ? I'm ready , all right , so what do ?
Speaker 2you say we wrap this up . Okay , we'll wrap it up . Go ahead , buddy . Thanks for tuning in to Logam , where leadership lessons are free , but the puns are priceless .
Speaker 3That should have been a pun . That's a missed opportunity for a pun about a pun . All right , get out of here . All right , let's go . Let's go .
Speaker 2Goodbye everybody , Bye-bye .
Speaker 3Let's go , the Punisher , the Punisher of puns .
