From Pitch to Profit: Storytelling Strategies for Raising Capital

"RAISE CAPITAL LIKE A LEGEND: https://offer.fundraisecapital.co/free-ebook/"

In this episode of Making Billions, I sit down with renowned leadership communication coach Dia Bondi to demystify the art of high-stakes fundraising. 

Forget everything you thought you knew about traditional pitching. Dia shares her groundbreaking insights on how to secure massive investment by using the "bold ask" and going for a "no." This masterclass in strategic asking reveals why emotional intelligence and powerful storytelling are your most valuable tools, not just the numbers on a spreadsheet. 

Whether you're a startup founder seeking seed funding or a private equity manager raising a new fund, this conversation provides a blueprint for effective communication & investor relations.

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[THE GUEST]: Dia Bondi is an expert in Leadership Communications, with two decades of experience coaching top CEOs, VC-backed founders, and innovators to speak powerfully and amplify their impact.  

[THE HOST]: Ryan Miller is an Angel

Transcript

Ryan Miller  

My name is Ryan Miller, and for the past 15 years, I've helped hundreds of people to raise millions of dollars for their funds and for their startups. If you're serious about raising money, launching your business or taking your life to the next level, this show will give you the answers so that you too can enjoy your pursuit of Making Billions. Let's get into it. 

Ryan Miller  

Emotions are your most powerful investment tool, forget everything you know about rational investing. The top 1% of fund managers are using psychological insights to generate billion dollar returns. Here we go. 

Ryan Miller  

Yeah, welcome to the show.

Dia Bondi  

So happy to be here. I'm glad to be on this show, and so happy to be participating in conversation with your community.

Ryan Miller  

We're so fortunate to have you. So you've been a leadership communication coach for years, Now one of the interesting things that you've done is you folded in auctioneering, I got to hear this story. So how did auctioneering change your perspective to leadership and strategic asking?

Dia Bondi  

So yes, for over two decades, I've been a leadership community leadership, communications coach, and as you mentioned in the intro, I've worked with you know, big brands, technology, CPG, hardware, like blockchain, pick a topic. A lot of work in the Olympic movement. And like many you know, folks that do hard hitting work, I took a break, I put myself on sabbatical, and during that sabbatical, I did two things. I did The Artist Way, cover to cover, which is a lovely book. And I also went to auctioneering school, kind of as a bucket list item, you know, I had been challenged by my own community in my hometown to do some fundraising events for my kids preschool. And I literally thought to myself, you know, I as a bucket list item. I would do this. I would learn how to be an auctioneer, just for fun, and on that sabbatical, that's what I did. And when I got back to the Bay Area, I wasn't gonna turn this into a career. Instead, I just flipped into what I think of as an impact hobby, a hobby that has a positive impact around an issue I really care about. So I started doing fundraising, auctioneering for women led nonprofits and nonprofits benefiting women and girls here in the Bay Area. And about 30 auctions into it, I really realized that my two worlds were coming crashing together, auctioneering and leadership, communications, and I started to see actually how I had helped my clients leave money and opportunity on the on the table, and didn't even realize it. 

Dia Bondi  

The big shift I saw was, while you know, I had been working for years in the world of leadership, storytelling, helping folks be more more compelling in front of the audience, the audiences that matter to them, whether it's in a boardroom or in a ballroom. It what really shifted for me is that we had been shaping asks based on sort of the wrong question. And that question for year, what for years was like, well, going into this big clutch moment, what is my What am I asking for, and how much? And the answer was always like, well, what do we think we can get? And we go for that, and we really ended up leaving a lot of money and opportunity on the table, because we designed our asks based on trying to secure a yes instead of challenging our own assumptions about what's possible. And auctioneering, this funny little impact hobby of auctioneering, showed me that going for a no was actually the way to have higher yielding asks at the end of every story we were telling.

Ryan Miller  

I love that. So instead of building your asks, and this relates into asking investors and doing deals, I mean, at across the board, raising children, at like, you name it, this applies. And so this is one of the reasons why I was excited to have you on and so now, just like auctioneering, you reach the upper limit, not what you think it is, but you actually go for the upper limit, and you can kind of figure out. And so I think it, putting it in my own words, not yours, is to say this is a way to achieve the maximum benefit, rather than just what you think the maximum benefit is, it's the actual maximum.

Dia Bondi  

Absolutely, it's the I think of it as, like the mat you want to, you want to get a no and then negotiate down, because it's a way to see and be sure that you've maximized the potential of an ask. And understanding that, you know, asks can seem like a single thing, but with a lot of founders I work with, whether they're out fundraising or, you know, I even have had some fund managers in my world who are out fundraising but also making asks around, partnerships, around, you know, fellow traveler deals around acquisitions. You know, other influential moments in their career trajectory. You know, those, those asks aren't just like a single request. Sometimes they're multi layer. They include some certain level of engagement. They include a certain level of visibility and partnership, maybe they have money attached to them. They're they can be very dynamic. So when you think about an ask. And auctioneering is literally buy this painting, and I'm asking for dollars. But I recognize, we have to recognize that out in the out in the enterprise or business or fundraising, you know, world, these asks can be quite three dimensional.

Ryan Miller  

Brilliant. And so I imagine, because you would come in with leaders who probably have a few years under their belt. It's not their first day on the job. And so you work with them, and you're saying, likely, I'm just, I'm fantasizing here, but you're just telling them to say, you got to ask for more. Does that make people freak out, like, how can executives step into that area where they can freak out? Because I know you really have strong feelings and a lot of great knowledge on. Is just to unlock those outcomes in communication and maybe negotiating as well.

Dia Bondi  

Yeah, so I have a term for what you're talking about, and I will say that like, you know, the asks that they're making need to be have three components. They need to be the right ask of the right person at the right time, absolutely and right ask doesn't mean an ask that feels like a slam dunk every time. Right ask is, like the right ask for your business, the right ask that is actually going to put the resources and decisions in your hands that you need to move things forward. They have to be nutritious, so to speak and sometimes that means, like I said, it's not just a singular ask. It's an ask that includes a couple of components. So the issue is, when I start asking my clients, okay, so we're going to ask for X, we're going to ask for a particular, you know, price in a in a share purchase. That's going to happen, what else? And they're like, well, what do you mean? I'm like, well, what else? And we start layering other things in, and pretty soon they've got that feeling in their stomach like, well, I don't know, you know. That's what I like to call the zone of freaking out, that little, that little zone you end up feeling like, am I is this even realistic? Is this going to kill the deal? This is kind of like my damaging my credibility here, I mean, it can go that far, right. But the problem is, we make a lot of assumptions about what's damaging, about what the risk is in in our relationship that don't exist, because we're kind of shopping from our own wallet. 

Dia Bondi  

So the zone of freaking out, or what I call the ZOFO is actually a great way to know not that you're about to break something, but that you're actually challenging your own assumptions about what's possible. Now, there's another, you know, that same feeling can show up with leaders that I work with when they go to start crafting the stories that set up the asks that they're about to make. Because, you know, in the business context, it is so easy for leaders, particularly the more senior they become to want to really lean on what I'm going to call brass tacks, you know, features and benefits they're looking at the numbers are the economics working, and those are all very important, but the stories become kind of anemic, and what puts my clients back in their ZOFO is when we want to slow down and actually paint a strong picture with better storytelling, because it's very qualitative, it's very relational, it's very It slows the conversation down a little bit. And while it can be huge, it can really set up, it can set you up to win and ask. It can also feel a little ZOFOish.

Ryan Miller  

Yeah, I love that. And you know, one of the things that I found is that when you slow it down, just to compliment what you're talking about, because I absolutely invite I'm drinking the Dia Kool-Aid here, but one of the things that I've found, and I have a community called Fund Raise Capital, fundraisecapital.co and I teach people how to raise money, and one of those things is when people first come in. And you can always tell when people first come in, they're like, how many meetings am I going to get set up? And I said wrong metric, not saying it doesn't matter. And so I encourage people the first thing they should do is to build a story bank, and because the right story can build trust and in finance and in leadership, but more particularly in finance, you're just getting the doctrine of Ryan, whether you agree or not, is high finance is more about trust than transactions. Yes, transactions come but if you go to your point and I say it different in the context that where I operate is it said, if you go for the transaction before the trust, you're probably going to get neither. If you go for the trust then go for the transaction, you'll probably get both. And I want to underscore for our listeners around the world how important what you just said is. Is very often they want to go for brass tacks, right? And I have so many dating analogies right now. None of them are appropriate, they want to go right to the finish line, I think we're all adults. We could, you could fill in what I'm insinuating. It's not great, that's not a date, and it cheapens the experience. Now I'm being very serious, it cheapens the experience. And so if you're raising investors, persuading partners, influencing employees, trying to get business deals and you just cut to the finish line. I don't think business is done that way.

Dia Bondi  

Well and here's the other thing about that, is that there's a reason we go see one another. You know that brass tacks stuff can happen, like understand the difference between conversation and documentation. What needs to happen in that conversation? I worked with a founder last quarter. She's an alumni of mine who came back because she was getting ready for a real clutch moment where she was going to, I'm going to call it a deal. She was going to bring, she runs a startup, that is, it was a deal because she needed to make something happen that was going to add a lot of value to everybody's world. She runs sort of a data platform that it's not a marketplace, but it's a marketplace model in that, you know, there are users on both sides, you know, and she was bringing them together to want to build, kind of like a consortium where they could work as a governance body and inform the next iteration of the product that she was building. She is a data scientist, you know, she's ex military transitioned to civilian life, an absolute rock star of an athlete like brass tacks. Is where she's at right? And so the task of the day we crafted her ask, which, by the way, first realized that the things she thought she needed to ask for she already had. 

Dia Bondi  

So when I say right ask, right time, right people, you need to recognize sometimes you already have a lot of what you think you're supposed to be asking for. In her case, she was asking for people to participate in this consortium and I was like, this event is called the consortium. They've already said yes if they're in the room, so recognize what you already have, and then ask yourself, if that's true, now, what do I ask for? And once we crafted that, we started to build a story, and we used the story of the establishment of Visa in the early days in the 60s as sort of the data pipelines for transactions at that time, as sort of analogy for what she was inviting people to do. And it was hard to really let her paint a picture of what was going on, to build context in that time as an analogous situation to what she was, what her industry is experiencing now. And I had to, multiple times coach her to say, give me details, paint the picture. If you were to make that very, give me three specifics here that helped characterize the status of that time. If you were to describe what the stuckness felt like for the people in that industry at that time, how might you do that? Slowing it down, slowing it down, which felt like a snail pace for her, but us on listen. You know, on the listening side, it was an extra 20 seconds, but that created a real Technicolor scenario that we could all relate to, that laid the groundwork for the ask that she ended up making. 

Dia Bondi  

And that can be very ZOFOy, you know, most of the senior people that I work with don't really they aren't really afraid to ask. They just miss simple like, little things, like, is this? Is this the right ask at the right time to the right people? What do you already have, and recognizing also like the ask that you might make, it might be making, isn't an ask at all. So there are moments, and I've come across this in sort of more hard hitting, you know, high pressure, sort of fundraising scenarios. I had a client, just to give you an example, I had a client. He was a founder, he was needing to insert himself into a conversation between two early investors, and the ask, essentially, it was very delicate situation. And the ask was, essentially, can you invite me into this conversation? I need to be in the middle of it. And I was like, well, what if you get a no? And he said, Well, I will insert myself anyway and I'm like, well, then that's not an ask. So there's, you know, getting that kind of right so it feels right person, right time, you know, right ask is really critical, and then, yeah, slowing down to tell the right story,

Ryan Miller  

That's incredible. So now, when it comes to, because we're really, I've seen a theme that's really shaping up, which is one around communication. And so when in communication, regardless whether you're raising money or whatever that ask is, what are some of those storytelling frameworks that leaders can use to become more influential?

Dia Bondi  

Okay, I know in the last little bit, we were saying, like, don't get to brass tacks so soon, but this next, this next conversation, is going to be brass tack. So if you're on a run or walking your dog, you should bookmark this section, because I'm going to give these to you. I have two of them, I think that might be really useful for the folks that are listening right now, and I use them with executives who are launching products at industry events. I use this one for founders who are fundraising, I use it for in lots of different contexts. Now, the only distinction between these two is that one is really good for setting up like initiatives, and the others might be the other, the second one might be a little bit more about personal initiative, okay, so let's do the one around initiatives. First, this one works really well for products, you know, initiatives that you might be running, that you want to get people engaged in or saying yes to the ask that's tied to it. And it's what I call the blocker buster, silly name, not so silly of a setup. It works great, by the way. You know, later we might talk about, we might talk about sort of key attributes of really clutch communicators and leadership that I've seen in my 22 years and one attribute is you've got killer setups, ones that you can rely on and this is one that we rely on a lot with my clients. 

Dia Bondi  

The blocker buster, it goes like this, what you want. So you are going to start by talking about what your audience wants. Here's what you want. You want more access to clean data. You want more momentum in the space that you're in. You want less friction in the way that you collaborate in the world. You want to be perceived as a leader in your domain. You want to be seen as influential in your space. You want like, what is it that they want both in terms of their head and their heart, the brass tacks of the business, but also how they maybe want to be perceived in the world? You know, do they want to be seen as avant garde and then, what are the, you know, the business components of making that possible for them? You know, they want to get they want to be able to be more productive with the talent that they have. They want to find growth, where they want to find growth where growth is very difficult right now, like, what is the thing that they want? 

Dia Bondi  

Now in this segment, you might be saying what they already know, and that's fine, because the point isn't that you're shining a huge light and giving a huge aha. The point here is that they see that you see that. Like, that's what that is. The other thing you can do in the what you want section of this storytelling framework is that you might be using language that they don't feel ready to use themselves or safe enough to use themselves, like words like scared or inefficient, or, you know, words we like to stay away from. But, words that you can use, that they can say, they can nod their heads. You can use it like something like, you know, and I imagine that you know. The thing about that is that is, you know, that can be really scary for folks in your position. Doesn't mean that you're scared, right, but you're able to introduce new language that is accurate and allows them to nod instead of having to say it themselves. You might be adding a new layer or a way in which you're talking about it that makes them go, yeah, that is what we want. We just, I hadn't really articulated it that way. So you're going to talk about what they want. It can be a single line, it can be a paragraph. 

Dia Bondi  

And then you go on to the second section, which is called, which is about the blocker. Here's but that's what you want. Here's what's blocking you lack of access to that clean data, you know, a burned out workforce like, I don't know, fill in the blank all the things that get in the way. You know, analysis paralysis, lack of courageous decision making. You have a TV on, I don't know what it is, but you can list all the things again, brass tacks, things that are about the economics and things that are about the vibes. So we've got, here's what you want, here's what's getting in the way the blockers see you, getting you what you want. 

Dia Bondi  

And then the third component is, here's what we do, here's what I offer, here's what I'm up to that removes the blockers so you can get more of what you want, just to add to it. Maybe that's a product. Maybe that's a fund that you're building that aims to do a certain thing, you know, maybe that's an event that you're hosting for, you know, for people in your industry, whatever, the thing is that you're there to share the blocker buster has a fourth step, which is literally and because of what I just shared with you, here's my ask, you know. So we want to make sure that we get to the ask, right? We don't want to just leave it sitting there with a bunch of descriptions it. It still works in a small audience. I don't want to say that it just works in a larger audience, it can work in a small audience. It's just, it's it's better when it's tied to like a product or a service or something you're building, or initiative in the more intimate, more personal initiative. You're talking about the mirror effect, which has three modules, the first, and it just goes like this, I see you, you see me and because of that. It's similar to the blocker buster, and that we're starting with talking about the other person. You know, I see you, man. I see what you're up to, I see what values you operate in. I see what you're trying to do in the world. I see the legacy you're trying to leave. I see the impact you're trying to have. I see the business you're trying to build. I see the struggles that you're in. Like, I see you, and then you give them an opportunity to see you. Okay, let me give you a chance to see me. And then you're gonna give them a walkthrough of, like, what you're up to, what values you operate in, what impact you're having. And in that, in that second part of the narrative, you wanna be illuminating where what they're up to and what you're up to start to intersect. And then the third bit is, and because of that, here's my ask.

Ryan Miller  

So would you say that's better for a smaller crowd, it's not one on one?

Dia Bondi  

I think it can be, you know, I've used that even in a documentation when we needed to write a really compelling letter to set up a meeting, and that was to one person and two of their team members.

Ryan Miller  

I love that. So this is a great way to bring people in, to help them to connect with the sound of your voice and the words that you use, otherwise known as influence, and that's one of those areas that we're really talking about here. And again, that goes in many areas, and especially when you're dealing with investors, partners, high stakes deals, all of these things matter now often you and I think we're both fans of telling a good story, not just any story, but a good story. And from that, what would make a leader's origin story move people to follow or fund them?

Dia Bondi  

Yeah, this is a real like understanding having a better way of telling your origin story, what I like to think of as provenance is a really important component of your leadership voice, and can help you set up and ask in a much more compelling way. It's very common for folks to take a stage or to take a meeting and start with while I went to MIT, graduated with my graduated, you know, with a PhD in data science, and went on to work for Mackenzie. And then, you know, and then spent three years in Hong Kong working on this generated, you know, launched these three, these three companies generate $100 million in ARR and here I am, you know. Okay, that's fine, you know, that's fine, but I've sat in so many pitch panels, and what we really want to know is why you and what drives you. And so if you think about if you look back over your set of accomplishments, your braggables, it's a better and more compelling story to talk to me about what you've always been driven by. And then point to those accomplishments, your PhD from MIT and data science, you know the impact that you had launching those products that developed, you know, $100 million in ARR you know your visit to the White House, I don't know what it is as evidence of the outcome of that drive. Because we're not buying when we invest in you. You know, whether you're a startup founder, or we're coming on board as your first whale of a client, and I'm going to help you build out the next iteration of your product, because that's a thing you know, you need those early customers. What we're really looking for, we're not buying what you already did. No, we're not investing in what you already did. We're investing in what drives you now, because we believe it's going to create a different outcome. So your origin story isn't just about what you accomplished. It's about who you are, what you're driven by, and when you can speak to that you make us see why you.

Ryan Miller  

I'm gonna totally wreck the statistics here. So free warn, I used to know it's been so long, but you remind me of an interesting study. I believe it was conducted at Stanford, and it was with students who, part got up and they said, exactly what you did? Yeah, we did this and this is the numbers, and EBITDA, and you're set. I don't know maybe I'm over length, but it was all facts and figures, which is exactly, by the way, what they teach you to do in grad school, to just very sterile, by the way and I used to pitch like that. Guess how much I raised zero, right? It's but I guarantee the people I pitched got really good sleep that night after listening to me pitch this sterile thing of EBITDA. And year seven is this, and I was a human calculator and and so this underscores this study that was done or to us, where students who got up and shared facts and figures, it was very sterile, and then others actually shared a story and implemented those facts and figures into it. And I'm going off a really old memory, but the the principle is the same as there was a stark difference. I think anyone could figure out where this is going to land the people who did it, I think it was something like 12% actually remembered the deal and all that from the very sterile standard, sanitized one. It was something like 80% was able to be recalled by the people who heard the stats and figures in the context of a story. And I know you have a story about someone who was a CRO that really came to light in this and talking about an origin story, I'm wondering if you'd like to share any anything you're comfortable with.

Dia Bondi  

Sure, yeah, anonymizing my client stuff is a little tricky, but so yes, a CRO who was, I'm gonna call him, I mean, big heart guy, but a tough guy, you know, tough guy.

Ryan Miller  

Big teddy bear.

Dia Bondi  

Yeah, grew up in, grew up in the world of finance, and he works at a big SaaS company that I do a lot of engagement with now, and we were prepping him for an event that he had underwritten He wanted to bring together. It was really critical moment. Critical moment in in the in financial services world, sort of mid pandemic, and like, on the, you know, on the coming out, but right, like right at the beginning of the coming out of it, and, and he had underwritten this session at a large Finance, Financial Services conference. And he had as part of the underwriting of it, the sponsoring had, he had engaged two very influential voices from the world of sport, Alison Felix, she was a runner at Nike who got pregnant, they killed her contract, and then she launched her own business, she's an entrepreneur. And then also a Derek Jeter, I think and he was, we were working together to prep him for this moment, because he needed to establish himself, he's a new leader in this organization. You need to establish his leadership voice with this critical audience as a way to lay the groundwork for his sales teams. Okay, you know he wasn't gonna be in big sales conversations, but he was laying the groundwork the context that his sales teams would be using for the conversation they'd have as follow ons. And he was like, I'm gonna be at this event, flanked by these two amazing athlete entrepreneurs. And I'm like, I haven't picked up a football since 11th grade. You know, he's like, what am I doing here? And I was like, I don't know, what are you doing here? And so we looked back at the things that mat the impact that he'd had that were both absolutely publicly badgeable, braggable events, but also were very meaningful to him and uncovered his core drivers, which is that he'd always wanted to be part of something significant, and that is why he and then he introduced himself that way, and then enumerated the three to five things that kind of help people understand what elevation he operates at as a As a leader in financial services, and it helped him come into the conversation, not in competition, and I don't belong, because he's not an athlete, entrepreneur, he's an in house executive for his entire career. But to be able to answer the question, why am I here? And it was because we're facing, right now, at that moment in financial services, a very significant moment. So there was a beautiful match between what he was going to be talking about and the content of the software that they were using to help solve the industry's problems, and like, why he's the right guy to be having that conversation with.

Ryan Miller  

Wow, right? There was the power of a story instead of brass tacks, right? So it's okay to savor the moment and insert yourself as part of a word I like to use, especially about myself, involvement is the ghost, the ghost in the machine. Sometimes I call it that is to say I'm here, and I'm here to support such an amazing thing. And here's where I insert myself, and here's where that makes sense and you do that through a context of a story. And once again, we're underscoring the importance of not just sharing facts and figures, but the power of a good story can influence how it comes tremendously, and whether that's in finance leadership or anything in between. 

Dia Bondi  

And I think there's a lot of you know you talk about a story bank. You know, having a bank of stories that you can draw on when it's relevant is really important. And in my world, that's about articulating your your your origin story, your Providence, but it's all. Also about understanding and being able to speak fluently and fluidly about your core operating principles, what your leadership philosophy is, and so much of this stuff leaders who are listening right now, I'm sure you already, you already have, but it's so innate that you haven't really named it and claimed it in a way you can talk about it. You know, it's the way you operate that feels so obvious to you, but not to others necessarily. So this isn't about inventing something new or crafting a creative story. It's about naming and claiming what you already do and who you already are.

Ryan Miller  

Brilliant. So when it comes to a lot of the times our communication, it's especially what we're talking about now is in the context of high stakes goals or outcomes. How does your platform map align to a narrative with high stakes?

Dia Bondi  

Oh, yeah. So you know people, it's funny. You know, in my practice, for years, I never said that I help leaders find their voice, but leaders started saying that was what happened working with me. And, and people will come to me saying things like, you know, I want to be able to like, I want to be able to talk with more confidence. Or I want to be able to like, nail these moments. Or I just want to be able to essentially, be really clutch in these moments. I need to kind of like, I got to figure out how I do that in a way that sounds like me, okay. And when they're saying, that's what they mean when they say, I need to find my voice, right? And it feels very squishy and nebulous. It feels like vibes, you know, and it's not you can solve this with content we just did with the with the the switch, and how you talk about your origin story. What is the content of the story, and what do I lead with drivers or accomplishments? 

Dia Bondi  

So the platform map is an outcome of my 20, you know, 22 years of doing this that has four components. One is uncovering and being able to write through a series of exercises, which I have in my back pocket. The the the sort of think about as like a purpose platform statement, which isn't about like my life's purpose. It's about the purpose that you play in a room or the role that you play, because there's a good chance that whether you're fundraising for your next fund fund, or you're coaching your son's baseball team, you're kind of, you know what, no matter where you go, you have a wide range, you show up differently. I get it, you package it up differently, but very often, the founders I work with, whether they're, again, you know, coaching their kids baseball team, or they're out raising money, they're the truth teller in the room, or they're the bridge builder in the room, or they're the status quo challenger in the room, or they're the rule breaker. Or, like you can think of these metaphors, right? And so that's what I think about, is your purpose platform statement, and so that we can then use that as a way to hold you accountable, and how you design the stories and the asks that you might make, the pitches that you go into, so that we can hear you in it. You know, if you come to me and we design your purpose platform statement, and you're like, I have one client, I'll give an example of one. He his was, I see, I see beyond so that we can maximize, we can amplify I see be, this is like, three years old, so I'm digging deep on this one. I see beyond so that we can magnify potential. So when we're working on, you know, his talk track for a particular moment in time, I can be like, where's the sea beyond this here? This all feels very flat footed, you know, where are you seeing around corners for us? Because without that, you know, we're kind of leaving a big, compelling part of your voice on the table. So it purpose platform. Second part is about your Providence, your origin story, that that shares drivers, so we understand who you are, not just what you've done. The third component is about your point of view and playbook, which is about what do you talk about in the world, and not your product, not your fund, okay, but what do you talk about in the world? What trends, what transformation are you trying to cause? What is your playbook for doing that? 

Dia Bondi  

So for example, I had a client. He's an FinTech founder. He's building a FinTech product for SMB and we, we got to like, oh, his actual point of view and playbook is around, he articulated this term of autonomous finance. And I was like, Okay, now we're on to something. If I sit in a room and I'm listening to a founder talk about autonomous finances, the lens that he uses when he thinks about building product for SMB, I hear somebody with a vision. You know, not just somebody who's a product wonk, doesn't necessarily mean that his product is wholeheartedly an autonomous finance product, but it helps you understand where his head is, you know what lens he's using. So as you're building funds, like you can think about, do you have a point of view on collaboration? Do you have a point of view on on stakeholder engagement as a way in which to create successful funds? Do you have a point of view on culture? Do you have, like, it doesn't have to be about the name and the aim of your fund? 

Ryan Miller  

Yeah, agreed. 

Dia Bondi  

And then the fourth component is about your operating principles. What are the operating principles. What are the operating principles you can share with us that make us go like this is how this person operates. This is the way they this is the mechanics with which they are able to execute themselves and also with their teams. And those are those can be really fun and wonderful. And again, those are those innate things that seem obvious to you. But when you articulate them, they can really give us an insight into who you are.

Ryan Miller  

Brilliant. So let me make sure I got that straight so we have purpose, providence, point of view and principles and all of those, when we connect those four dots, that's the platform map, and that's typically a framework that leaders can use to create the source material.

Dia Bondi  

Correct.

Ryan Miller  

On those high stakes conversations like public speaking or negotiation pitches, all of that. And then I love what you talked about, and I couldn't agree more is to say this is outside of we're going to buy this company, and then we're going to roll it up, and we're going to make a zillion dollars, as you can see in Excel, right? We're all zillionaires in Excel, but, and they can see that that's fine, they don't need a lot of help. They just need just need to send an email. But it's the part that even get to that point, which is purpose, provenance, point of view, principles, and folding that into your material to add context. Is that correct? 

Dia Bondi  

Correct and yeah. And sometimes, when I work with folks and we build other platform app, particularly people who come to the world of brand are like, what they're like, you know, is this a brand story? Do I tell all components of it? Is it a narrative? It's, it's, it's not a linear narrative, but as a narrative in that it is, you're exactly right. It can produce its source material. It can be a point of inspiration for making like your purpose platform statement. Can be a point of inspiration to fetch or find examples that you might use to bring to life the business case that you're sharing, or the user case you're sharing from your own experience that is aligned to who you are, you know. I'm like, we'll talk to talk to bring this to life. Let's come up with an example story that really brings us to life for us, but do it from your real do it from your seeing beyond voice, like, if you're gonna, if you're gonna use an example story that really helps us see all the way around the corners that other people don't see. What might you do, and then we end up using that as a creative instigator. So this becomes, you are spot on, it's source material.

Ryan Miller  

It really helps to add that which is giving the context and something that I always think is buying and so if I'm cutting a check as an example, or use me as the metaphorical investor that you're asking for lunch from. I've come to learn whether it's true or not, but it feels true is that people will buy for emotional reasons, and they justify with logic and too often. And finance is guilty of this, right, is we, especially when you start out and you're trying to raise money. And typically they'll come to me and be like, I'm getting a lot of meetings, but I can't raise any money, I don't know what's going on. Typically, we're seeing that you're trying to convince them to buy for logical reasons, and then hopefully, maybe somewhere you feel good about it and I was like, doesn't work like that. Very often, a great story is designed to add context, to add meaning, and then you might fill in some logic stuff, and obviously we disclose that, but I've adopted a saying that just says this was one of my earlier bosses, my earlier managing directors, is you want to sell the sizzle, not the stick. Meaning you got to get them emotional, get them excited, help them understand how this benefits them, and then you share the figures. And too often, I think what you're screaming from Mount Olympus saying, you got to add context to this stuff. And I want to echo my voice is, boy, does that apply. I can't think of an area where it doesn't, to be honest. And so adding that context to selling the sizzle before the stake, I think is absolutely important. If you think you're going to go out and just share facts and figures, I think you're going to be wildly disappointed. Or if you're already are trying to raise money and you're not probably, let's look at how are you presenting, not what are you presenting, how are you presenting? And I think that four part framework is absolutely brilliant. Anything else you can add to that?

Dia Bondi  

Yeah, just to say that, you know, there's a reason that the blocker buster we talked about earlier, and the mirror effect start with them across the table. There's a reason there about their desires, about where they see themselves, how they want to see themselves, and when we illuminate that and not shame people for it like literally, we hold it high, it sets it now you're exactly doing exactly that. You're having a conversation about something more than than numbers.

Ryan Miller  

I love that. And you know, I, lucky me, I get solicited on LinkedIn non stop all the time.

Dia Bondi  

You're a popular guy Ryan.

Ryan Miller  

But one of the things that I found and this, this goes into exactly what we're talking about before we move on, because this is so important. Obviously I'm locking in on this, because I can't emphasize this enough for people what you're saying and how good it really is. So here's a quick thing that makes me completely ignore it, is people will add you. And if you open with I, or me, or here's what I do, I don't even finish reading it. I was like, you're more interested in what you can get out of me, rather than providing me a solution and understanding. And we've had other people say, go on a listening tour and make sure that you understand. And as a word that I use all the time is, don't just pitch deals, but actually present yourself as a solution architect. And in order to do that, you need to have them to relate. You can't just talk deals, grab them and expect it to have here's what I do, me, me, me, right? Instead, you actually, as you talked about, relate to them and get them to relate to you. And you establish that foundation, and then from there, you can build to say, What do you care about? What matters to you? You probably want this, and maybe you're feeling a little pissed off it's not happening because of that. If that is I might be able to support you on that and help you out, but up to you happy to help and like, that's amazing. I'd be like, I love this person. They're incredible, rather than like, here's what I do, and I'm really good at it, let's set up a call, here's my Calendly link. I get those all the time, and I'm like, barf. 

Dia Bondi  

Boss.

Ryan Miller  

Yeah, feels pretty boss. 

Dia Bondi  

My kids would call that an MPC, right?

Ryan Miller  

Player Character, yeah.

Dia Bondi  

Yeah.

Ryan Miller  

It's true. It's like, there's no soul in it, right? If you really have it, it's just staying and I think what you're talking about is putting the soul back into conversation and really bringing people to connect, and not just spew numbers and facts and resumes at each other, but actually have conversation.

Dia Bondi  

Yeah, and to be fair, I mean, for folks who are listening to building out large funds, or they're, you know, fundraising, or they're a founder building something that solves a real problem, like, you know, you're not living in an MPC chat bot world, and these high stakes moments, you know you're making, you're making big asks With big promises, you know, and having people say big yeses and their big relationships that will often last a very long time, you know. And so the ballpark you're really playing in is not, is not surface level?

Ryan Miller  

Yeah, you're spot on. Now, speaking of ballparks and games, I heard a little rumor that you helped Rio to win their 2016 Olympic bid. I'm curious how, how did that teach you about narrative and influence?

Dia Bondi  

You know that was one of the most powerful and difficult challenges, because it was, you know, it's a very complex team of voices that aim to convince the IOC to vote for them. Now, I will say that the bidding process for securing a games in any geography has changed greatly since the Rio bid that I worked on. So, you know, whatever I'm referring to, it's, it's not the same now as it was then. But it was probably the hardest project I ever did, and it taught me, sort of two things, that some of the biggest impact happens in the smallest rooms. Which is to say, you know, the way some very large impact initiatives can happen is by 12 people in a room, making it, telling a compelling story, and making a decision, you know, and not underestimating that or not imagining that, scale always means many, you know, many voices and many ears. Scale is sometimes about it can be about very few people having a very big impact so that that's one and it and it helped me really recommit to doing work like we're talking about that, you know, I don't scale, Ryan, I don't scale. I'm committed to small and deep, like, who are the two or three people that you know that we're investing in to help move the needle for a lot of for lots of participants. And then secondly, is it excellence is absolutely, is absolutely the job and that it's really hard. I was out, I worked on another the Olympic movement. It wasn't Olympic games, but it was tied to the Olympic Movement, which just is about, you know, sharing the value of sport and the Olympic values around the world. I was out to dinner with a client of mine. I said, hey, what business do you think I'm in? And he said, I think you're in the excellence business. Dia, I mean, it made my heart go pitter patter and I think that's right, you know, excellence going for excellence really is a worthwhile it's worthwhile.

Ryan Miller  

Yeah, and that really underscores the importance of excellence and being extraordinary. As as I like to say, the difference between ordinary and extraordinary is the extra. And so that's where excellence is really hard, is because it's like, this isn't ordinary stuff. If you really are driven to excellence, there's some extra that may be required, and that's putting it lightly. 

Dia Bondi  

And I'll say too that, like excellence doesn't always mean perfection. I mean, this stuff is like, it's like being an artist, you know? I mean, even the best musicians in the world still practice.

Ryan Miller  

Yeah, I love that. So with that said, how do you move leaders from, say, polished presenters, to truly leading with their unique voice?

Dia Bondi  

I mean, I think for one is recognizing the difference between skills and developing a unique voice. You know, Miles Davis just saying that musicians still practice. There's this quote from Miles Davis, I think it's from Miles Davis. The internet will correct me, is something like it takes a lifetime to sound like yourself and what he's pointing to is that like you can be a really good musician. You can be technically excellent, but your skillfulness with the trumpet is not the same as hearing your musicianship come through the trump, trumpet. Because really, the difference between being an excellent, you know, trumpet player and being Miles Davis was Miles Davis. And the excellent, you know, the difference between being a skillful communicator, you know, being able to nail a dramatic pause and, you know, really use the stage and you being, you know, having a leadership voice is absolutely you. So I think the first step is recognizing those are two separate things. 

Dia Bondi  

And then the other thing is to always, when I think about the endless pursuit of excellence, is to always hold, you know, one or two focus areas for your voice. And this isn't, you know, this is about like, what are the one or two questions that you want to answer using your leadership voice? Questions like, how do I have, how do I have? How do I have more impact in the room without more control in the room? How do I tolerate my own power, the higher, the higher impact I become? It's about, you know, how do I expand my story bank such that I can expand the range with which I show up in a myriad of contexts. Like hold one or two focus areas that can be sort of a theme for a period of time until you solve that for yourself, and then ask yourself, right now, what might be my focus area for my leadership voice? And we do that, we're always sort of naturally leaning toward and developing our own experts.

Ryan Miller  

So are you saying then, making sure that I understand, because I think this is what I'm hearing. Is you're saying as you're developing that keep maybe a month or a period of time, and all you focus on is a particular aspect of where to influence or that powerful voice, is that what you're saying?

Dia Bondi  

Yeah, it's sort of like having setting an intention for your leadership voice.I run an intensive for a very small cohort three times a year, and I had a woman in my last one. She's a super well regarded neuroscience researcher, and her question for her, her focus area, for her voice, was something like, how might I exercise compassion and performance? How might I help? How might I use my voice to exercise or to balance compassion and performance? You know, she struggled with like, I want excellent performance. But I also find that I become so compassionate that I sometimes bite my tongue when I shouldn't, because I, I get so frustrated with performance that if I say anything, I'm afraid it's going to be, it's going to be destructive and not constructive. So she was, she was holding this beautiful tension. Was the question with the focus, or how do I use my voice to both move through my leadership with compassion but also supporting performance? And we had very rich conversations, growing on her, on her platform map, particularly her operating principles that she could use to scaffold and design the approach to having more difficult performance conversations with her team so that she could exercise both compassion and hold high her expectations.

Ryan Miller  

Wow. Now that is a very that's the razor's edge, I try to walk as well, so making sure that people know I give a shit because I do, but also saying we I don't tolerate that. And I was like, take a look at me, do I have to do anything? Of course, but I shouldn't have to your job too. That is always a performance issue, but also doing it in a way, and maybe that comes to as the saying goes, honesty is the best policy. And I was like, yes, however, so is being tactful. And so, so that's where people fall down, I believe, is to say, well, how do I be honest, as you should that's part of that is one of the many things you got to do as a leader, is to be very clear with people what's acceptable, what's not, you set the standard, however, it's the tact. And I think that's where you come in to really support people, is to say, keep what's great about you. And I think that's what that lady was worried about, is to say, I don't know the way I do it is destructive. So I don't know if I'm tactful, but I do, I can't tolerate a lack of performance. I don't tolerate it in myself.

Dia Bondi  

She didn't know. She didn't know how she came off, she had, you know, and this is much, I know we've been talking it was just a, it was a, it's a, what I call a focus area. It was a question that she wants to hold, and we didn't solve it in the room, and she'll never hold that question again. That's the question she's going to be carrying for this next year, and developing her voice in such a way that she can live in that tension of those two things. And you know, we've talked a lot about fundraising in this conversation and building out your funds. Because folks that are, you know, building funds. You are, you are an entrepreneur, like you're a founder. You're not building products, you're building a fund, you know, but that, that focus area for a leadership voice I just mentioned is much more about the operator side of the house and a lot less about the, you know, fundraising, storytelling side of the house, but this question of leadership, voice, you know, can span those two worlds.

Ryan Miller  

So talking about fundraising, when we go out and we ask for $100 million or whatever is a billion dollars, and some people $25,000 is absolutely insane. Whatever it is, doesn't matter about the number, but it's a bold ask, right? And bold is maybe in the eye of the beholder or or the one who's asking. So when it comes to leaders of funds in high finance, how would you suggest they build a culture where bold asks are both welcomed and rewarded?

Dia Bondi  

Well, you do have to recognize that while it feels very aspirational and fun to go out and get, you know, to go you know, from outside your fund, outside of your organization, encouraging a culture of asking means that you're going to have to tolerate dealing with the asks you get, and maybe with those two things, compassion and performance, right? So I think it's about recognizing that you're going to have to say no and you simply can't take offense if someone makes the kind of ask that. It means that you have to say no and even a hard no, but you can make that. You can make you can say no with compassion, you can say no with clarity, and you can give feedback on give feedback such that the people in your organization continue to build the storytelling capacity to make asks, both internally and externally. They're not punishing nos, they're just knows that an explanation. 

Dia Bondi  

Okay, so the I think that's part of it, the other part of it is, you know, I work with, I hear from a lot of organizations that they struggle to have people internally take advantage of the opportunities that are before them, because they don't know how to ask. So aiming people's asks in a way that links the professional development opportunities that they have internally the leadership opportunities they have internally, you know, encourage them to ask in a way that links those asks to those offers. They're not just willy nilly. You know, that can be really useful because you have a really healthy mentorship program internally, but if nobody's actually finding the courage to ask for mentorship, that program is going to go unused, you know, and it's going to be really anemic. So there are going to be people in your organization that make asks that you want to again, tolerate and let yourself say yes when it's right, and not just be offended that they, you know, how dare they to say no with compassion and explanation so that people understand, and then, thirdly, to aim their asks at programs that you know are going to help nurture the culture you need to develop to be able to ship great product or to be able to create results in the business.

Ryan Miller  

Brilliant. So, so when, when that comes, so we have a bold out there, and you were saying, but it's got to be bold in here, meaning in the company as well. And I think what I'm hearing then is from that we got to be prepared to say no, and it's not a no. I don't feel like it's a no. It doesn't align to what we're here to do.

Dia Bondi  

Correct, correct and yes and to and you know, when somebody makes a big ask and you have to say no, it can be an incredible teaching opportunity, yeah, that's great, and an incredible realignment opportunity. You have to also understand that when people feel safe enough to make courageous asks, because, look, it's even when they feel safe enough to do it. It's not easy. Okay, it's not easy for folks in their careers to make big asks that feel like a big jump. It's just not if I'm in the back rooms where I hear in my workshops and talks, I hear people, I hear all about all their hand wringing. To recognize that boldness and then directionalize it is really important, but also to like it can work as a realignment tool, because they're signaling to you where they see themselves wanting to go. Like, don't ignore that.

Ryan Miller  

That's absolutely brilliant. And sometimes that can be nerve, I remember early in my career, I was like, I got to ask for a raise. Everybody but me is making more money, and so nervous, of course. And you know what I found out, actually got above everyone else. It was a mistake by HR, and so they over comped me after, and it would have never have happened. So I was like, I feel like I'm winning, I feel like I'm kicking butt, what is going on, like, maybe, am I gonna get fired, or they just, like, not investing in me? And I was like, I'm putting everything on the line, I'm pushing hard, that's kind of the gear I have. And I was so nervous, and it turned out that big ask should have never been an ask and they were like, oh my gosh, we are so sorry.

Dia Bondi  

That goes to the point that we tell a lot of stories about what somebody will or won't say yes to, and many of those stories are made up by our own fears and narratives and triggers.

Ryan Miller  

100% was that, yep, honest.

Dia Bondi  

Yeah. So we don't, we don't want to shop from our own wallet that way.

Ryan Miller  

Yeah, exactly and, and that goes back to the auctioneering, is you ask what you think you know you're asking for the minimum. And it turns out to say no, go for a no instead of a yes, just like an auctioneer. Find the upper find the upper limit on the ask and go for that rather than just that. Please give me anything and kind of diminish your works.

Dia Bondi  

Yeah, no, knowing that we're using powerful story storytelling, we're building rapport. We're coming from a place of creating value, not extracting it. We're coming from a place of value creation for both parties, for the organization, like this is not about like leverage over someone else. It is 100% about you getting more of what you need to reach your goals, whether they're financial impact, goals, visibility, goals, authority, goals, whatever they are. And you know, coming from a place of being generative, not extractive, and that makes those big asks feel a lot less like a take and instead more like a collaboration.

Ryan Miller  

Yeah, and you know, we're talking about a corporate setting, but it's the same thing with fundraising. So if somebody said I would like to be your CEO and lead your fund or your business or whatever, it might be, okay, cool. Big ask, I love it, it's I like the cojones, I appreciate it. Now, the thing is, is you talk about the context is, like, tell me what you're thinking, right? So if you're going to go for big ask, most people need big things solved. And like, who's going to lead the company because I don't want to do it. I'm I'm cool. Being an owner. I don't want to be an operator. You do it, you're probably better at it, and that, that's your thing. Cool. So, so or manage a portfolio, right, all of these are massive things that record. It's not for everybody. And so coming in on that, I think it's saying, okay, tell me the story of what you're thinking. There's a reason I remember. I was, I'm still a recovering CFO, but I remember when I came in, and typically you have 100 day plan. So that's very graceful, but what it is is to say, what are you gonna do? How do you see the world? And so imagine, if you're able to provide that upfront, imagine on the big ask, you're able to say, back to your four part framework, and you say, here's how it's gonna do it. And by the way, I'm gonna make you $20 million and I only expect 5% of that, million bucks, and they're like, great, you make me 20. I'll pay you a million dollars to make me 20. This is easy and so you provide context, you provide rationalization, not in a self deprecating way, but in a way of saying, like, I'm gonna provide you a ton of value. And here's what I expect, because I know my value, I only want a small sliver of that, but we're all going to benefit from that. And going in with that bold ask is not just the ask, it's it and you may not suggest this, but it sometimes comes with what's behind the ask. Do you have the framework? Do you have the organization? Do you have all of those things? And providing that context is critical.

Dia Bondi 

Anything you can add to that, of course. I mean, it goes back to what we're talking about earlier. That's the storytelling that sets up the ask. If you have a killer setup, then the ask should just simply make sense. 

Ryan Miller 

It should be pretty obvious. Yeah, I love that, absolutely love that. And you're doing and you're leading people to find that this is so cool. So now sometimes when you're pitching, the stakes can spike. It might be like you had me at this part, but WTF, what are you saying, it just it went sideways from something happened. So how do you help leaders to or what would you suggest leaders do to keep their voice steady when those stakes really raise or they spike in any scenario, but even in pitching.

Dia Bondi  

Before you go into these situations, you want to get really clear on two things. What impact do I want to have? What outcome do I want to create? Because in your and then you're going to design your pitch or your conversation, or, you know, you're going to outline the way you want the conversation to go based on that, and then when it goes sideways, you're just going to go back to that. Wow, conditions have changed, my story is not landing. Let me go back to like, what impact did I want to have? What outcome did I want to create and given where things are now, what might I do to help have that impact? You know, you can get sidelined, I know so many of my founders are going into fundraisers, or they're going to meet with their advisors and, you know, they get seven sentences into it, and they're getting sidelined right there, you know? And I'm like, you're going to have a plan, B, C and D that can happen if you know why you're there. Not just I know what I'm going to say, I know why I'm here, and then we're going to go back to the platform map, to go like, if I can go back to my purpose platform statement, to help me remind help remind me who I am when I'm destabilized, and then bring that to the impact I'm trying to have and the outcome I'm trying to create. It can often be, you know, a lifeline to getting you back on track. 

Ryan Miller  

Brilliant. So before we wrap things up, what is one final principle about voice that you would want leaders to remember?

Dia Bondi  

It's just my core philosophy that you know, leadership communication is not about transacting information. It's not about getting the data from me to you. It's really about it's really that high stakes communications moments are about your leadership and that you are your most powerful when you speak from who you truly are.

Ryan Miller  

That's brilliant. So before we wrap things up, final thoughts, any ways people can reach out to you, maybe where they could find your book, anything at all? 

Dia Bondi  

Sure, so you can find my book, Ask Like an Auctioneer, which is the kind of book that, you know you're going to pick it up when you board the plane in San Francisco, you'll be done with it by the time you land in Boston. Like it's just that fast and then you can, you know, you can give it to you can give it to one of your mentees. You can find that at asklikeanauctioneer.com. The ways to engage with you can find me on LinkedIn, and you can go to diabondi.com and you can check out the my intensive. If you are a leader or founder right now, who recognize that now is a phase or a moment in your leadership or in your business, where you recognize that having a stronger, more knowable, differentiated leadership voice will be useful to you. I do run a few intensives a year, very small cohorts, two and a half days, people walk in going, what is my leadership voice and they walk out with an answer. So you can find that at diabondi.com and all my other private coaching and and workshops and talks that I give all around this idea that you know leadership is a strike point, that high stakes communications are a strike point for your leadership.

Ryan Miller  

Brilliant. So just to summarize everything that Dia and I spoke about be clear on the bold ask and the story behind it. Build a story bank that showcases Purpose, Providence, Point of view and your Principles. And finally, leader, leadership, communication. It's not about transacting through communication or pitching. It's about speaking powerfully and creating the ultimate outcomes that it provides. You do these things, and you too will be well on your way in your pursuit of Making Billions.

Ryan Miller  

Wow, what a show, I hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I did. Now, if you haven't done so already, be sure to leave a comment and review on new ideas and guests you want me to bring on for future episodes. Plus, why don't you head over to YouTube and see extra takes while you get to know our guests even better, and make sure to come back for our next episode, where we dive even deeper into the people, the process and the perspectives of both investors and founders. Until then, my friends, stay hungry, focus on your goals and keep grinding towards your dream of Making Billions.