Ep87 Surviving the Two Valleys of Death in APAC Cleantech with Summer Bae, Cleantech Group

Summer Bae from Cleantech Group joins us to reveal how the Asia Pacific cleantech market is finally moving from hype to solid business proof. We dive into the "two valleys of death" for hardware startups and the urgent need for catalytic capital to bridge the regional funding gap. We explore how AI accelerates hardware breakthroughs and why the global focus has shifted from net-zero targets to energy security and resilience. Professionals in climate finance and business will gain vital insights into navigating institutional roadblocks and scaling frontier innovation across APAC.

Ref.: Cleantech Group, Global Cleantech 100 Report, APAC Cleantech 25 Report, 

ABOUT SUMMER. Summer Bae is the Managing Director, APAC at Cleantech Group and is based in Singapore. Prior to Cleantech Group, Summer spent over 10 years at BloombergNEF, where she built partnerships with financial institutions, governments, and corporations to advance sustainable finance and clean technology adoption across the region. She focused on developing strategic relationships with C-suite leaders, particularly in Korea, Japan, and ASEAN. Earlier in her career, Summer held regional sales and planning roles at Datum Alloys, covering markets across Asia, Europe, and the Americas. She began her career at Sumitomo Chemical, where she managed chemical production line operations and was involved in business planning. Summer holds a Bachelor's degree in Asia-Pacific Sociology from Ritsumeikan Asia Pacific University in Japan and earned the Sustainable Investing Certificate from the CFA Institute in 2025.

Recommendations: 

• Nat Bullard Annual Presentation: A data-rich and accessible slide deck that provides a comprehensive summary of global developments in climate, energy, and technology.
• 2026 Cleantech Forum Asia, 2026 Cleantech Forum Europe, 2027 Cleantech Forum North America: Professional networking platforms and international conferences held in three continents to support the commercialisation of new technologies.

Company list: #Bloomberg Finance L.P. (BloombergNEF), #Cleantech Group LLC, #Fervo Energy, Inc., #Halcyon (Halcyon Group Holdings LLC), #Sumitomo Chemical Co., Ltd.

HOST, PRODUCTION, ARTWORK: Joseph Jacobelli  |  MUSIC: Ep76 onward excerpts from Vivaldi’s La Follia, played by Luca Jacobelli.

Transcript

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Ep87 Surviving the Two Valleys of Death in APAC Cleantech with Summer Bae, Cleantech Group

[00:00:00] Summer Bae: The challenge that APAC is facing is not technological. It's basically institutional. And the other challenge is simply getting in front of a customer.

[00:00:09] Joseph Jacobelli: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[00:00:11] Summer Bae: And then large corporates as you know, big corporates or utilities or government agencies are the executive customers for these startups, right? Right. Yes. But their procurement cycles can easily last for 12 to 24 months. So one year or two years.

[00:00:26] Joseph Jacobelli: Yes.

[00:00:26] Summer Bae: And then startups don't have those luxuries of waiting.

[00:00:30] Narrator: Welcome to Asia Climate Finance, your front-row seat to the policies, investments, and actors shaping climate, business and finance across Asia Pacific. Subscribe now so others find this essential guide to Asia's climate economy and note the disclaimers at the end. Now over to the host, analyst, investor and author Joseph Jacobelli.

[00:00:53] Joseph Jacobelli: Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, wherever you may be listening from. Welcome to Asia Climate Finance. Today we try to tear down some unspoken truths behind the Cleantech Revolution. Is innovation really stalling, or are we just seeing the market reach a critical turning point? To help us navigate this, I'm joined by Summer Bae, a seasoned expert from the Cleantech Group. Summer has over a decade in the energy transition space, and she offers a crucial on-the-ground perspective that most global observers miss. We cut through the noise to discuss why the messy middle of technology scaling is the biggest hurdle in the region right now and why the old venture capital playbook is perhaps failing our climate goals. Why does this matter? Because without addressing the fundamental mismatch between patient capital and frontier innovation, our path to a secure, resilient energy future will be slow. It is a vital conversation for anyone trying to understand where real opportunities for growth and impact actually lie. Please do send comments or ideas to acfpod@outlook.com. The email address is in the show notes. Enjoy the discussion. Hey, Summer. Hi. How are you?

[00:02:29] Summer Bae: Hi, Joseph. How are you doing?

[00:02:31] Joseph Jacobelli: Very, very good. Thank you so much for making the time to join us on Asia Climate Finance. Really appreciate it.

[00:02:39] Summer Bae: Thank you for having me.

[00:02:40] Joseph Jacobelli: So, it's really brilliant to have you on the podcast today to kick things off. Now you spent something like a decade in the energy transition space previously with BloombergNEF and now leading Cleantech Group's work across the Asia Pacific regions out of Singapore. Two quick questions on that if we start. Could you please tell us a little bit about yourself, something maybe beyond your bio, which will be in the show notes, of course, as usual? And also for anyone listening who may not be familiar with the current work, could you give us maybe a quick snapshot of what the Cleantech Group does and what your main focus in the region is?

[00:03:25] Summer Bae: Sure. So maybe first about me. So I originally come from Korea, but I've spent a significant part of my life in both Japan and Singapore. So I've been fortunate to experience different perspectives across Asia. When I was younger, I would say I was fascinated by this Japanese manufacturing culture. So there was like something really remarkable about procedure or discipline or attention to details involved in creating something from nothing, right? Right. So, so that fascination led me to join Sumitomo Chemical, and then when I started my career, I was working in a manufacturing plant and then managing the production lines. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But the one thing that really, really stayed with me from the experience was I started with the factory, right? So the factory was located in the middle of a residential area. So every day I saw how industry and local communities live side by side, right? So that made me really think about like energy, industry and sustainability and how can industries keep actually growing while reducing their impact on the environment. And that eventually kind of led me into the energy transition research business at BloombergNEF, where I spent more than a decade working with some of the really hard-to-abate sectors across Asia Pacific. And then along the way, in that experience, I realised something very important. People often talk about innovation as if it naturally happens on its own. But innovation doesn't grow like a wild tree, right? So it requires support, capital, customers, and an ecosystem around it. And that's what attracted me to my current company, Cleantech Group, which has spent more than two decades helping innovators, investors and corporates come together to accelerate the commercialisation of new cleantech technologies.

[00:05:23] Joseph Jacobelli: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I remember I first came across Cleantech Group back, oh my God, late, late 2000s. Mm-hmm. So how long has Cleantech Group been around?

[00:05:37] Summer Bae: 24 years, actually.

[00:05:38] Joseph Jacobelli: Right, right. Yeah. So must have been at the very beginning. Yeah. I mean, yeah. And I love a lot of the research which we'll talk about in a minute, but a lot of the reports are really, really useful. And we'll have that on the show notes as well, some of the links to the reports. Talking about reports. Good segue. Now your team recently put out two pieces of research, the Global Cleantech 100 and as well as the APAC, so Asia Pacific region, Cleantech 25. Now looking at the data in the companies that made the cut this time, what were the kind of big standout trends for you? Are there any specific sectors in the Asia Pacific region that are really punching above their weight right now? And maybe to put it into context, you may want to mention what the reports are all about because I know it's not the first time you put out these reports. So maybe what the reports are about and then the other questions about standout trends as well as the companies punching above their weight right now.

[00:07:03] Summer Bae: Sure. I think it is worth touching on what cleantech means, right? So when we talk about cleantech, a lot of people are only thinking about solar panels or wind turbines, right?

[00:07:16] Joseph Jacobelli: Yeah.

[00:07:16] Summer Bae: When we are talking about cleantech, we look at everything from energy, transport, materials and chemicals, water, recycling, and agriculture. Mm-hmm. So that's the amount of the technology we are looking into. But you are probably right, one thing really stood out to me this year is how fast the market is changing. Mm-hmm. So Global Cleantech 100 has been running for 17 years. And normally companies stay on the list for a few years, right? We selected this process for six months and then hearing from advisors and investors recommendations, whatnot. So we go through the whole nomination process. And then usually those startups stay a few years, but this year almost half of the list changed.

[00:08:02] Joseph Jacobelli: Mm-hmm.

[00:08:02] Summer Bae: Right? Mm-hmm. And then to me, that's a sign that the market is moving from hype to proof, right? And the investors are becoming more selective, right? So they want to see real business traction and not just a good story. So that's kind of the real trend I see. In APAC, energy and power is very strong, but I was also surprised by how much activity we are seeing in materials and chemicals. And the big reason is, of course, AI and data centres, right? So as AI grows and power demands keep growing, the data centres need better cooling materials and whatnot, right? So that was quite interesting. Another interesting area was fusion. Mm-hmm. And Japan has been particularly very active. A few years ago, fusion, probably you know this Joseph, fusion was more like science fiction, right?

[00:09:07] Joseph Jacobelli: Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[00:09:08] Summer Bae: Yeah. But then today we are starting to see actual commercial agreements being signed. So that's really, really exciting changes we see. And more broadly, the conversation has changed. And I think you and I probably agree, until five years ago, everyone was talking about net zero targets and climate targets. Right? But then today, literally everyone's talking about energy security and resilience.

[00:09:24] Joseph Jacobelli: Mm-hmm.

[00:09:25] Summer Bae: So almost all the pitches changed. They changed it from climate to energy resilience and security.

[00:09:36] Joseph Jacobelli: Right, right, right, right. And like I wrote in my last book, Powering the Unstoppable Green Shift, I think the economics is also becoming a lot more important, which I guess is part of energy security as well. And so my favourite example of course is solar hybrid projects in Southeast Asia, because now the unit cost is actually lower than coal or gas or EVs where, funny enough, I was just talking to a good friend and we were talking about EVs and he's been driving this beautiful Porsche Cayenne for the last 20 years or whatever. And he said it's about time to move to an EV, and then he said, but I've got all these concerns. And I go, what concerns? Well, first of all, price, and price is not a concern anymore. At the top end, obviously it's been very competitive, but at the lower end, not just prices in China, but even out here, I mean, you can get a pretty good EV car for 20,000 or 25,000 euros in Europe. So all of a sudden, the economics kind of make sense and you lay over the energy independence and energy security, which is kind of interrelated with economics. And all of a sudden, you've got the transition happening before you know it. But I was taking away from the reports. Could you just maybe, for those not familiar with the two reports, explain a little bit (a) how the reports are structured? Is it just like a laundry list of companies? And also how you approach your decision to pick those 100 or 25 companies.

[00:11:11] Summer Bae: Sure. So it goes both ways. One, we open the application for the startups. Global Cleantech 100 goes through the application process for anyone who is in the cleantech industry to apply for it. But we go through this nomination process, right? So we have an advisory board who are basically the specialists of each sector and also have investment experience, the investors who are actually experiencing it. So we got nominations on this, and we go through this process. We vote among the advisory team including our research team and then we select the hundred most potential and upcoming feasible technology providers in private companies. Important thing is these are all private companies, right? So that we just select those hundreds and then we of course keep a platform for them to connect with investors.

[00:12:05] Joseph Jacobelli: Mm-hmm.

[00:12:06] Summer Bae: Now that's the Global 100, and it has been running 17 years. It has a reputation such as a company like Fervo Energy who has successfully been in an IPO and in successful cases in this industry for this year. They are, for example, part of our alumni, right? So those kind of things are a good example. APAC 25 is slightly different. The reason we are doing this series is because we thought that global trends are important, but people need to provide solutions for the local level. APAC 25 is literally those companies who we think are going to lead the region in five to 10 years. So it is a slightly earlier stage than the global hundred. But then APAC 25 are also important companies that investors should look into.

[00:13:00] Joseph Jacobelli: Got it. Got it. So it's very interesting. So you've got a mixture of both industry people as advisors as well as actual investors. So you kind of cover both the business and the finance side of things.

[00:13:11] Summer Bae: That's correct.

[00:13:18] Joseph Jacobelli: Now if we can move on to a slightly different topic. I guess I can call it the scaling challenge. Having monitored this ecosystem for a long time, does it actually feel harder to scale things today than it did say, I don't know, five, 10 years ago? Or are we just dealing with a brand new set of bottlenecks like supply chain pressures or grid infrastructure?

[00:13:46] Summer Bae: Sure. I love this question because it's kind what people are thinking about the industry, right? Mm-hmm. Often when I go to conferences, people are asking to show the five-year chart. If you think about five years ago, which is 2021 and 22, anything under the climate label was getting funded, right? So that's a different time. But if you're thinking about the journey we went through since 10 years ago, right? If you think about a 10-year time period, we have so much more capital and much more corporate interest and so much policy force now. So if you think about the journey of 10 years, I think we've actually achieved a lot, right? But if you only focus on five years from the bubble that we had, it looks like a decrease, right? Mm-hmm. But I think it's more about the market not declining. I think the market is more maturing. So we have to consider whether it's because the market's reducing, and I think the market is more popular and got bigger. So people need to actually focus on this maturity of how to make a decision in investment.

[00:15:04] Joseph Jacobelli: Mm-hmm.

[00:15:05] Summer Bae: Yeah. And I think the changes are that investors are asking basically tougher questions, right? They're asking questions about who is your client? Will they pay? Can the technology scale? Or can we make money? And then there are geopolitical challenges, right? As you mentioned. This Iran conflict is basically a fundamental structural change in the market. So it's no longer just about supply chain problems. I think we just think this cleantech is more of a strategic choice. We are no longer talking about reducing emissions only. I think it is more about energy security as mentioned and reducing dependence on imports. So I think that the conversation is now completely different because the structure and market are different.

[00:15:57] Joseph Jacobelli: That's a great answer. From an APAC perspective, especially across markets in East Asia like South Korea, Japan or the ASEAN region, how does this scaling challenge manifest? Are founders in this part of the world facing unique roadblocks to what we're seeing over in Europe or the US?

[00:16:25] Summer Bae: Yes. And I think this is an important part. I think a lot of our industry is not rethinking this in the true sense in my perspective. The challenge is basically twofold. One is we already have mature technology like solar, EV, batteries, as you mentioned. And those solutions exist, right? The challenge is basically infrastructure, policy and financing for deployment. And also how to localise that. We cannot really rely on single sources, a.k.a. China, all the time. Our supply chain of the cleantech industry is 80% reliant on China. But the question is now with these mature technologies, how can we localise them and divest them from not only China, but produce them locally? So that's one thing. The second thing is innovation and scaling. I'm talking about frontier technology, which is an earlier stage, like carbon removal, green hydrogen, industrial heat, long-duration storage or advanced geothermal, for example. These exist, but they haven't been scaled. And I think this is where the messy middle is real. This is where technology outgrows the grants but can't really attract conventional venture capital.

[00:17:50] Joseph Jacobelli: Right.

[00:17:50] Summer Bae: And this is where catalytic capital matters most.

[00:18:01] Joseph Jacobelli: Talking about funding, I'll move on to the cash side of things, because obviously you cannot scale a business without serious capital. There seems to be a noticeable shift recently where venture capital funds are getting a bit of cold feet when it comes to investing in younger, early-stage cleantech startups. What's driving that hesitation? Is it as simple as low risk appetite or what is driving the hesitation?

[00:18:46] Summer Bae: Well, I have to say that I don't think investors have lost their interest in climate technology. But the real issue is that many climate technologies really don't fit in the traditional venture capital model, I'll say. Which means that I often describe it as two valleys of death. The first one comes when a company leaves the lab and needs the money to prove the technology works. That's one stage. And the second stage is when the technology works, but then needs a lot more capital to scale, like building a factory, right? So many startups get stuck in between. There are advanced programmes, as I mentioned, but it is still too risky for most investors. Now a lot of the venture capitals, because of current circumstances and market sentiment, find it is not easy to raise a fund. So they're trying to choose technology-proven projects rather than early stage. Now, climate technology or clean technologies often require large amounts of capital. Especially the deep-tech technologies. They need longer development cycles and more time before generating revenue or returns. So that's very different from software startups.

[00:20:10] Joseph Jacobelli: Mm-hmm.

[00:20:10] Summer Bae: Which has a very quick return and relatively little capital. So the challenge isn't about lack of innovation, I think it's more about a mismatch between the financing structure we have and the technology we are trying to build. So we need more patient capital for this climate technology and clean technology. But then in APAC, that capital is especially scarce.

[00:20:35] Joseph Jacobelli: Hmm. So wouldn't European investors or capital from North America look at the whole world and see Asia as part of it? Why wouldn't they also focus on Asia, especially given that Asia is 50% of global energy consumption and more than 50% of the opportunity because of the growth rates? Is there an issue with global capital looking at Asia and is it just an Asia-specific problem or is it pretty much a global issue?

[00:21:31] Summer Bae: I think it's a global issue in terms of the uniqueness of the cleantech industry. It is a totally global issue, I would say. But then I think there's a geography nuance, whether the ecosystem exists or not. Relatively, in the current circumstance, the US or Silicon Valley has a multi-generation ecosystem, which Asia doesn't. So mobilising capital is not as easy in Asia, even though there's a lot of international funders coming in, they are still very much focusing on Silicon Valley or the US market and Europe as well.

[00:22:14] Joseph Jacobelli: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. If traditional VCs are pivoting towards safer later-stage bets, who is actually going to step up and fund the early-stage innovation we desperately need to hit climate targets? Are governments, multilateral banks, or others actually doing enough to plug that gap, especially in the Asia Pacific region?

[00:22:43] Summer Bae: I mean, this is one of the most important questions the industry is facing. My short answer is it's probably all of the above. Government has a role, corporates have a role, development banks have a role. And institutions also have a role, but increasingly I think philanthropic organisations have a role as well. And what we need more is catalytic capital which is willing to take more risk early on so that private investors can participate later. Reality is there's no single investor group that can solve this alone in this very complicated, pragmatic market. If we're serious about commercialising the next generation of climate technology, we need to really coordinate the ecosystem rather than isolating funding pools. So like blended finance. There's a lot of blended finance coming up in the region, combining with philanthropic capital, and banks and government trying to work together here. I see more potential there. But we need more transactions. We need to have more transactions on this.

[00:23:58] Joseph Jacobelli: And are there enough platforms? I mean, obviously the Cleantech Group research and the forums are incredible work with almost a quarter of a century track record. But do you think that maybe one of the lacking elements to this is insufficient platforms?

[00:24:26] Summer Bae: Yes and no. I think there are a lot of platforms really focusing on infrastructure. So far, blended finance or philanthropic capital has done an enormously important job. We need to build more infrastructure for cleantech, and those capitals are going to build that infrastructure for everyone to use. But I also realised that there are not many platforms emphasising the ecosystem or innovation itself. We need to support innovation to actually play a role. But that platform is extremely lacking. You're completely right. There's not a single person or single organisation providing those platforms for innovators. Everyone is doing separate things. So we need to have a little bit of coordination on how to effectively work together.

[00:25:25] Joseph Jacobelli: And do you think that some of these investors also may have a lack of understanding of what cleantech is all about? Because you mentioned before, the high-profile cleantech is about wind turbines and solar panels, but there's a lot beyond that. I mean, there's sustainable aviation fuels, new air conditioning technologies, marine energy, et cetera. So do you think that there's a little bit of a misunderstanding in terms of trying to fully understand the ecosystem? And one final point, if we take AI for example, people think about data centres and energy consumption, but they don't think about how AI works with the energy transition, how it facilitates things like demand supply and grids. There's almost a fixation or lack of understanding of the full ecosystem. Do you think that that's an issue?

[00:26:58] Summer Bae: I don't think that's an issue actually. I truly believe, and this is the Cleantech Group's view, we believe that AI is connecting all the supply chain in cleantech. Meaning that from generation to the grid level to the cooling system materials, everything is actually evolving around AI. And also, I think the important thing people don't really appreciate is we can use AI to make a hardware breakthrough. Hardware breakthrough. Yes. So there are multiple companies using this AI smartly in simulations about their models of hardware. And that's making it instead of seven years, seven months to make a breakthrough. Then we see this R&D process getting shorter and shorter. And I think that will have a massive impact on the cleantech industry. I think people don't really think about it because for us AI is just ChatGPT, but it's actually those physical AIs or smart AIs trained for experts in physics or science that can actually help us make our breakthroughs much sooner.

[00:28:11] Joseph Jacobelli: What I meant Summer is, AI is just one example of investors not fully understanding that clean energy, climate tech, or cleantech is actually a very wide ecosystem, not just a very narrow one. So that's why they may just focus on some of the easier technologies to understand. Do you think education and awareness can be a bit of an issue?

[00:28:46] Summer Bae: Hundred per cent. Yeah. So capacity building is constant homework for all of us in the industry. And it is actually letting people know how much the definition of energy transition or cleantech has evolved in these decades. So there should be a fundamental understanding that it's not only solar and wind or batteries. There are so many other technologies that can help us reduce emissions or help us to achieve a cleaner future. I think not many people really know what that means or what kind of technologies because it's not tangible in front of their faces.

[00:29:28] Joseph Jacobelli: Right and not necessarily viewed as urgent. It's only urgent when there's a wildfire or a flood. I wanted to move on to your outlook. Looking ahead, how do we begin to fix these two massive mismatches, the scaling bottleneck and the funding drought? What kind of clever policy tweaks or new financial models are you seeing that could potentially act as a real catalyst here?

[00:30:14] Summer Bae: When we discuss policy or financial models, we often have a tendency to ignore what startups are actually going through. So we have to think about the market structure here. So let's say one startup proves its technology in Korea, Japan or Singapore. You would think that the next step for them is simply expanding in the rest of Asia. But that's often where they fail. Every market has different regulations, different certificate requirements and procurement processes. So it's so hard for them to go to the next country in Asia. And I think it's a bit ridiculous. So APAC's challenge is not technological; it's basically institutional. And the other challenge is simply getting in front of a customer. Large corporates as you know, utilities or government agencies are the executive customers for these startups. But their procurement cycles can easily last for 12 to 24 months. And startups don't have those luxuries of waiting. In Asia, most buyers don't want to be the first customer. They're very conservative. Everyone wants to prove that the technology works, but someone else needs to take the first step. That's why you need collaboration between government, corporates and investors. If there's any coordination for neighbouring countries so that we can have similar regulations or similar processes, that would be fantastic. Government can harmonise regulation, corporates can play a bigger role being a first customer, and investors can provide more patient capital. And philanthropic capital can play the role between promising technology to overcome those difficult gaps between research and commercialisation. I think that will encourage and enable the market significantly.

[00:33:03] Joseph Jacobelli: Despite some of the macroeconomic headwinds, you must see plenty of reasons to stay cheerful. Me too. Where are you seeing the most exciting pockets of resilience or breakthrough innovation within the APAC ecosystem right now that give you some genuine hope over the next few years?

[00:33:31] Summer Bae: Well, it's kind of repetitive, but I am still very excited about the role of AI. AI can play a part in accelerating hardware and deep tech innovation. It's no longer just about software. Application and interesting stuff is happening in the market already, especially around better materials, optimised industrial processes, and improving manufacturing efficiency. I think those are where APAC is very strong. If we can utilise that, I think it's a no-brainer opportunity for APAC. And also energy security, because this is probably the first time that governments are not always just pro-climate, but all governments basically agree we need to focus on energy security. That alignment creates opportunities for a wide range of the cleantech industry. So despite the headlines about funding slowdowns and geopolitical problems, I actually see long-term innovation in Asia is very strong and I'm still very optimistic.

[00:34:51] Joseph Jacobelli: Yeah, I totally, 300% agree with that Summer. Any area of the energy transition or cleantech has grown massively. It is a transition and a transition is not linear; it's very bumpy. I also think that AI is causing the market to be a bit more short-term because you've got companies raising hundreds of billions in investment and expecting a very fast payback. Whereas with clean energy technology, it's going to take years, especially if they survive the two valleys of death as you mentioned earlier. Cleantech is very closely related to infrastructure, and infrastructure is a long-duration asset. You don't build a solar power plant to make quick money in five days. So I think that may influence investors today because of the "quick money" that can be made elsewhere. I'm just brainstorming here.

[00:36:04] Summer Bae: No, a hundred per cent. Yeah.

[00:36:07] Joseph Jacobelli: Cool. Just to wrap things up. If you could give just one piece of advice to a young cleantech founder listening today who is trying to navigate this tricky funding and commercialisation landscape, what would be your advice, Summer?

[00:36:32] Summer Bae: I would say obsess over your customer's pain point. We are living in a world where climate is probably number five in the investor's mind. We have to compete with existing technology and there's no green premium whatsoever. Technology matters, but the customer is the most important part of this picture. A customer doesn't really buy the technology; the customer buys a solution for their problems. The best founders I know actually spend so much time understanding operation, procurement, economics, or customer behaviour. Funding is important, but funding is a means to an end. Customer value and their pain point is the most important thing. And if I can add one more thing: don't spend all your time talking to people you already know. A lot of founders like to hang out with people who already appreciate what they do. But stepping outside of your comfort zone is where some of the most valuable insights come from. I would definitely recommend for founders to consider that.

[00:38:18] Joseph Jacobelli: That's great. On a lighter side, do you have any personal recommendations for our listeners? It could be books, documentaries, films, reports, or anything.

[00:38:35] Summer Bae: I have one recommendation, which is a bit biased as it is my good friend's work. My recommendation is the annual presentation by Nat Bullard, co-founder of Halcyon. For anyone working in climate and energy and technology, I think that's the best summary of what's happening in the world. It is incredibly data-rich and very accessible. Every year I learn something new from it. So I would encourage people to go through that slide deck. And I would also encourage people to talk to innovators and startups. Reports are great, but the real story comes from the startup founders or operators who are actually building stuff. Data and reports are the story after it happens. If you want to hear what's happening in the future, talk to those founders.

[00:39:50] Joseph Jacobelli: How would someone access those founders? Apart from directly speaking to them, maybe at conferences like the Cleantech Group conferences?

[00:40:03] Summer Bae: Yes, like events and networking. There's a lot of networking going on in innovation in every country. Startups and founders are always thirsty for networking. Tap into those monthly or quarterly gatherings. Conferences are a great platform. Join the Cleantech Forum if you want. Reach out directly. LinkedIn is a great platform as well. If you're interested in the cleantech industry, definitely tap into the local innovation field.

[00:40:49] Joseph Jacobelli: Great. So I'll put both Nat and the presentation link in the show notes. When I first joined Bloomberg back in 2013, Nat and I sat very close together for about a year. I learned he's actually fluent in Italian—one of his many secrets. I'll also put the links to the Cleantech Group's forums in North America, Europe, and Asia. Summer, thank you so much for the conversation. I really appreciate your time and your participation in Asia Climate Finance.

[00:41:42] Summer Bae: Thank you so much for having me. It was a pleasure. Thank you, Joseph.

[00:41:46] Joseph Jacobelli: Thank you.

[00:41:48] Narrator: Please note that the Asia Climate Finance Podcast is provided for educational purposes only and does not constitute investment advice. Any information discussed should not be relied upon for making investment decisions. Listeners should always seek advice from a suitably qualified and authorised investment professional. The views and opinions expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of their current or former employers or of the podcast host or producers.