A conversation with Prabha Venu, Chief Commercial Officer at DB Schenker

Join us for a special International Women's Day release! In this episode, Prabha Venu Gopalan shares her inspiring journey, offering lessons on resilience, self-belief, and advocacy within the corporate world. Discover the power of life narratives in celebrating women leaders in the UAE and MENA region.

Guest: Prabha Venu, Chief Commercial Officer at DB Schenker
Host: Prof. Linzi Kemp
Producer: Dr. Sabir Haque
Production Team: John Joshua Barnedo, Dana Ajawi & Yousef Al Mughrabi
Recorded at the Podcast Studio, American University of Ras Al Khaimah
Copyright Women in Leadership UAE 2024

Transcript

00:00:00

Today we have Prabha Venu Copelan, who is the Chief commercial officer for Debbie Shenkar in them for the Middle East and Africa region. So welcome Prabhakar.

00:00:15

Thank you, Professor Lindsey. Thank you very much for having me here. Yeah, I'm.

00:00:21

Leading the team of great professionals across Middle East and Africa region as you know, the region is very past 70 plus countries, beautiful ethnicity, nationality keeps my day fueling up fantastic.

00:00:36

I bet I bet we're gonna take you right back now to where you were born and your early life and then move through to.

00:00:47

Here and now, because we're particularly interesting, interested in finding out what women leaders like yourself have been doing over the years. So take us back. Where were you?

00:01:00

Born. So I love to take back a little bit further than where I was born and my mum and dad were born in a different state in India.

00:01:08

Called Kerala, that's where they studied and they grew up.

00:01:11

But then they migrated to a Metro city called Chennai, which is the neighboring state. But as you can imagine, in about 19, I don't know, 70s early, early 70s migrating from one state to another state is also considered as as good as you are expatriating somewhere else. So yes, my dad took his move.

00:01:32

And he was 18 years old, and he went and took up a job, a central government job in Chennai. And that's when he moved. And then my mum moved later with him. So that's where my childhood started. In the Metro City of China.

00:01:47

And Chennai is a very, very cultural, religious and a very beautiful city, which has got a lot of history and also one of the trading hubs during the British time. So when you walk through the streets of Chennai, you still see those beautiful red buildings reminding us of the proud history that we have had since then.

00:02:09

So tell us a bit more about the family situation, for example, where do you come in the family? The eldest?

00:02:17

Yes, I am the eldest. We are two daughters and again in 70s to have two daughters in India is it was considered as a little bit.

00:02:26

You know, people would have then gone for the third child to see whether they would have had a boy or girl, but my dad and mum was very proud to have two daughters. I'm the eldest and my my sister is 2 years younger to me.

00:02:38

OK, what's your sister do now?

00:02:40

She is leading a team of what you call as the professional. She works for a company that sets up professional childcare within the organizations. So in larger organizations of more than 10,000 plus employees, it's mandatory to have a childcare center in the same organization, so she runs.

00:03:00

The Centers for that.

00:03:03

So another leader in the family, so thinking back to your childhood, I'm thinking sort of before the age of 11 when you would have gone to secondary school, just some quick memories of what life was like. What were you like? What? What were you good at at school, for example?

00:03:21

Tremely good at education.

00:03:24

So much so that my mom was very particular, that even though we both wear daughters, I studied in a in a convent or a Christian missionary school.

00:03:34

Where it's a lot of discipline. It was a lot of academical orientation and also my mum was one of those, you know, who would take nothing less than the first rank for granted at home. So much so I remember I was in, I think grade one or something that I was outside.

00:03:54

The house because I got a 95 percentile and one of the.

00:03:58

Subjects and I did not dare to enter the house because my mum would get very upset so my mum saw the shadow walking up and down and then she opened the door and she asked. So what happened? So I said, you know what I did not get the first mark in this subject. So a lot of studying, a lot of really, you know, having fun at home. We had a little garden behind. So we used to have grow a lot of things and.

00:04:18

Having fun and creating our own stuff.

00:04:20

And yeah, I mean, those were days, right where you really get dirty and and play in.

00:04:25

The mud. So the school that you went to and I'm now thinking sort of high school secondary school was that the was that also the convent? Yes, yes. Yeah. And was it mixed gender boys and girls.

00:04:34

It was.

00:04:39

It was, yeah.

00:04:41

Was it private or public? I was it a paid for school? Yeah. OK. And tell us a little about about your favorite sub.

00:04:45

It was paid for.

00:04:51

Projects and any sports you were involved in, or any clubs that you were involved in at.

00:04:56

School I was not very big on sports. I do sports because I have to do a period on PE. I was more cultural. I'll be the first one to raise my hand if there's anything to do with theatre, with drama, with dance, with music and and so on. And I was on the speaking.

00:05:11

Job. So my first ever speech was where there is a will. There is a way. That was my first speech that I want my or oratorial competition, so to speak. So I was on the speaking club. I was always interested.

00:05:26

And learning languages, so to speak, that I was learning at some .4 languages in school. I mean, overall I was a very good academic student, but overall I also paid a lot of attention in terms of the cultural aspects as well as communication.

00:05:46

So what do you reckon when your best subject at school?

00:05:50

I enjoyed studying languages. I studied what they call is one of the oldest language called Tamil, which is considered as the one of the oldest. If I'm not mistaken, the second oldest language which also has very complicated grammar and literature. So I took special classes to get.

00:06:10

Master, Edit and I still enjoyed reading Tamil literature as a part of keeping in touch with that language.

00:06:17

And taking you on a bit to.

00:06:20

What happened when you left school? Did you go to university or did you go into?

00:06:25

Work. I went to another gunman school for for two years after my high higher secondary because I just wanted to also understand what it means to be in a in an environment.

00:06:32

Ohh tell us a bit about that.

00:06:41

Where it's girls only. As you asked me. I mean, it was a mixed gender school initially up to my 10th grade as they call it back home and my 11th and the 12th grade. I went to a girls only school was very, very different.

00:06:54

Just getting out of the comfort zone because I used to walk to school and then suddenly you had to do it all very, very differently. And then I went to a women only college because at that point there was choices of going a little bit far away from home or somewhere closer to home. And I and and my dad requested.

00:07:13

At that time, he was not too particular, but we must go here or we must go there. But it was more about saying, you know what? This college has a reputation for academics and and so on. But it's women only. But do you want to choose this? And I didn't. I didn't bother much because it was. It worked out quite well. I enjoyed it. And there is.

00:07:32

And in the college, I was a cultural secretary for two years, I ran for the elections, for, for becoming the students leader, and so on. So it was a learning experience, even though it was a women's college. I was studying economics. And if you're not a doctor, if you're not an engineer, you are almost considered, as you know what?

00:07:53

Kind of at that time and age where education was not as vast as what it is today and majority of my father's side and mother's side, women were very empowered right when we were growing up.

00:08:08

All of my mum's siblings, who were born before 1950, were all employed, and they all migrated different cities in India at that point in time to actually pursue their careers as well. And my father's side as well. They were very pragmatic. In fact, my father's father, my grandfather, was the first theatre.

00:08:28

Owner in his village, who allowed women to watch a movie in equivalent to men when there was not even, you know, heard of anywhere. So they were very, very.

00:08:39

Futuristic in their thought process, so a lot of my father's side were bankers where public servants and they are all men and women. Everybody were pretty intelligent bunch, so I had to compete with them. So I was like, almost not in a competition, but in a competition. So I took economics. I wrote a lot of these public exams.

00:09:00

Public gun mental job exams at this point in time, but I was not very I don't think I was meant for working in a in a public sector. Therefore, I chose to study multimedia programming at that time while I was doing my.

00:09:15

Situation as a parallel studies. So I used to wake up in the morning at at 4:30, go to my computer education class at 5:30, finish it by 7:30 and get to my college at 9:00. So that's how I almost did 2° while I was doing.

00:09:31

That and how did you juggle?

00:09:35

So much academic work.

00:09:38

I I think again it was more about being very organized on what I wanted to do, where I wanted to.

00:09:45

That was the first part and the second part was I wanted to do it so I was finding ways of doing it and to an extent, I also want to sponsor my own education. So in the evenings I would also teaching children who were up to high school as as a private.

00:10:05

Classes so that I could earn money and pay my own degree fees. I couldn't pay my computer education. It was a bit expensive, so my dad covered that, but at least for my college and my commute to college, my clothes, my everything else, I was able to pay for myself.

00:10:20

That is a lot of juggling and well done for being so organized. I'm I'm just a bit concerned what happened to your language as you seem to have had such a passion for learning languages.

00:10:36

I couldn't proceed learning languages after that because then then you know.

00:10:40

Right after my college. Then I went into a programming job and soon to realize that I did not like that.

00:10:47

Then I moved into what at that point was called customer service for very big wide good brand. Then I don't think at early 21 I was very interested to handle angry customers. So I almost went home and I told my dad what kind of jobs are these?

00:11:07

I don't like it, and my dad was if you don't like it, just leave it it. You don't need to continue the job. My dad was very, very cool.

00:11:14

So and then I was at home for three months and then someone from a shipping industry called me and said, you know what, you have studied computer science, you know, you know, excel and word. And I was like, yeah, sure. I read. I studied for programming, but I'm very confident in handling word in Excel.

00:11:34

So he said, OK, I might have an interesting job for you. Why don't you come and check out this industry?

00:11:38

And this is an interesting point because you said somebody from a shipping organization got in touch with you.

00:11:46

Out of all the millions of people, how did he know of you? Because I think this be interesting for our audience.

00:11:54

It it was, I think maybe it was the industry calling me. It was. I didn't know about tripping, even though looking back, it's very funny because I was living in Chennai City and Chennai.

00:12:06

The city has one of the biggest.

00:12:08

Ports and there were probably containers you know moving around. While I was growing up, but I had no clue about this industry.

00:12:17

And so I had in those days you get a job adverts on the newspaper, so you actually write no ChatGPT, but you really write your own introductory letter and resume and everything. Right. So I wrote one of the resumes and letters and whatever which landed up on somebody else's desk and that somebody else saw that.

00:12:37

I had a computer qualification on my resume and he passed on to his friend and that friend then actually then called me, who became then my first boss, who introduced me to to shipping.

00:12:48

Moving along a little bit, tell us about what you enjoyed when you first started work in the.

00:12:57

Shipping industry.

00:12:59

And how you moved through promotions, what happened in your life?

00:13:04

It was very interesting because I joined as a statistician, so to speak, or in the new world of business. They call it commercial planning. That's how I call my team member now. But it was all about knowing where your market is and where do you put your your boots, right? I mean, which market do you put your sales people?

00:13:24

And how do you get the maximum amount of your sales guys and and so on and so forth? That was my first job. My first job was just looking.

00:13:31

With data interpreting data in a fashion that the management can make a decision to say, this market seems to be very good for us. Let's put some money and and get some people up there to get business out of this market and so on and so forth. And I wouldn't say I was very good at it. I mean, my first job was like horrible and my and my first.

00:13:53

Manager was the was the first female manager that I worked with and she was super strict and she was like she wouldn't accept a 0.01% of an error and that would mean that sometimes I would have papers flying across my across my table saying you haven't paid attention grow up. So that was fun. But then I think it was the resilience to say.

00:14:14

Every time that I.

00:14:15

Hit that, I would say, you know what I'm going to do it better and I'm going to do it better and I'm going to do it better and so much so that she was the first one to recommend me for then the promotions and then the new opportunities and so on.

00:14:28

And so forth.

00:14:29

So a good outcome because you are learning as you were working and putting that to practice by the sound of it.

00:14:41

Besides the working, you're fairly young at this point. What did you do that you know outside work? You know what was happening a little bit in your personal life? We.

00:14:53

Used to go out for a for movies. I remember it was I think Titanic at that time very Late Show and I landed up going home at 12:00.

00:15:01

Rumours got locked out of the house.

00:15:03

And my my dad was like, you're not going to do this even if you do that 15 seconds call, you're not coming home after 10:00, my friend. You know this.

00:15:10

Is not on.

00:15:12

But I mean, that was that was simple, fine fun, you know, going out for shopping, going out for, you know, a dinner or so. But making sure you're home by 6:30. So you still have the door open.

00:15:23

For you to.

00:15:23

Enter and did you have time for any again and going back to, you know, the clubs idea to follow your interests at all?

00:15:31

I I continued studying Hindi as a language I I have a graduation in Hindi at that time already.

00:15:39

Because I'm from the real remote South of India, where it's not very common for people to really study Hindi or as as a language. But my mum was very particular that both of us need to know more than one language and we got to be very comfortable with with languages. So I continued.

00:16:00

Studying Hindi at that.

00:16:02

But then when I started working and then I were having fun. I mean, all of this took a backseat. But one thing that I continued doing was reading until today, I can't sleep without reading at least 10 pages, so there's always a couple of books at my at my head side of of the of the court. So much so much sometimes.

00:16:21

Husband says what have you done? Why are you keeping all these books at your? You know, in in on the court. But that habit continued. I studied. I still enjoy reading. I still enjoy listening to the Tamil based podcasts because I think the language is very, very deep.

00:16:39

Not a lot of lot of them are studying that language in depth today, but that language is really beautiful.

00:16:46

And you mentioned a husband there. So have you. How did you meet him? And do you have any?

00:16:54

Children. Yeah. My. So it was in India.

00:16:58

Very common to have an arranged marriage where the parents meet first and then.

00:17:03

And then you know, you're thrown into the mix. So mine was similar situation where my dad knew my husband's family. So that's where it all started. And then they started talking and then we were thrown into the mix. And then my husband still makes fun of me, you know, early or late 1990s.

00:17:24

And where telephone bills were very expensive, we used to talk for an hour on the normal telephone and I think he paid a a bomb to at that time the telephone operator in in UAE because he was based in UAE at that time. We pioneered the long distance relationship like 2 decades.

00:17:41

Back because we started off with with phone calls and then there was the first time messenger was used extensively to build relationship. I guess in my life. So we started using the I think it was Microsoft Messenger at that time and then we started chatting on the Messenger Forum.

00:18:02

And so on and so forth. So it was, it was fun time. So we didn't see each other even until the point that we said yes to the relationship.

00:18:09

Yeah, but we continued. Yeah. Like I said, we we were probably 1.

00:18:14

Distance. Yeah. Distant relationship. Yeah. Yeah. So moving forward a bit. So you've started your first job and then you know how and you got recommended, didn't you? You mentioned about your manager recommending you for another job. So what are the highlights of the next?

00:18:14

Of the.

00:18:27

Yes. Yeah.

00:18:34

Promotion that you've got or actually your first promotion isn't.

00:18:37

It and that's where the real job started, because I was starting to talk, talk directly to the customers at that point in time.

00:18:44

And I was really learning how business would work because I mean and I still follow some of the fundamentals that I learned in my first job. For instance, I always tell my team, people buy from people. If you don't make that connect with the people you know, sometimes you miss an opportunity to close the deal because you need to know.

00:19:04

Then there's a business. But there's also the person who's handling the business. So that's where I really learned the art of dealing with people, real life, picking up the phone call and asking for that business or picking up that phone call and solving a certain situation that comes out of.

00:19:22

The shipping world and and so on and so forth, where there was very, very enriching experience, so much so that when I was about four years I worked there and then I resigned to get married and to move to UAE in 2000. So much so that the Indian organization wrote a recommendation to the Dubai organization.

00:19:41

Saying she has moved to Dubai if you want a very, very good customer service person, we have somebody. So I think when I came to Dubai in about a month's time, I was able to just comfortably get settled in a job in Dubai, you know, with with this joint venture.

00:19:58

Company. So at this point you're an ex patriot.

00:20:02

And you've not only moved to a new job, you've also moved country and you've got married. How did it? How did you? How did you deal with that situation? Cause that sounds like a lot.

00:20:18

I think looking back, it was like, you know, I can't remember anything so far because it was almost the the the events went like this and we we decided to get married. Our wedding was in 2000 and then 2000. May I got married 2000 June. I was already in Dubai.

00:20:39

And.

00:20:40

And 2000 in July, I I was already on a job, so it it just went so fast. Everything was so fast. I mean, until the point that I was, we were planning our wedding. That's all I remember because after that everything was like it was just happening one after another in such fast and a quick phase.

00:21:01

It was quite stressful, but it also.

00:21:04

I was very determined that I'm going to work and I was very determined that I'm not going to let my career go for whatever reasons and the luck would have it. Dubai had a very flourishing shipping industry, so there was a lot of shipping and logistics happening right there right then. So I guess I was in the right place. So things started falling.

00:21:26

Falling in place one by one. Of course, a lot of support from my husband.

00:21:32

Because he pretty well understood that this is all a lot of change. So we were taking it also very easy from the personal aspect. There was no pressure from any any sides of the family on what I should do, how I should do and so on and so forth. But one has to go through the change. I mean everybody could be supportive, but you got to be super resilient.

00:21:54

You gotta be super strong. You have to cry, you cry and you wake up in the morning and put your makeup on and you move out.

00:22:00

Because the day the show must go on, the day must go on, right? So that was that period was extremely challenging for sure.

00:22:09

Yeah. And it's interesting. I remember you said about one of the words you used was determination. And I think for our listeners that in information that you've given about.

00:22:21

Dealing with change and being determined as well as relying on your net work is very important.

00:22:29

And so you start your career in the UAE. Tell us a bit about that trajectory.

00:22:40

So you have two choices. Either you Start learning or developing a a growth mindset where you say you know what, I'm here to learn.

00:22:49

And I'm going to learn every day and I'm going to take every challenge as an opportunity to learn or just come to pressure so.

00:22:58

I had, if I remember right, about 14 nationalities in that organization and my first curiosity still lied in their cultural aspects, in their ethnic aspects. You know what brought them here? What are their aspirations? Just simply connecting with them at a personal level.

00:23:16

Yes. And I think what you mentioned there about fixed mindsets and growth mindsets, I'd certainly recommend our listeners to go and look up some information about that because it sounds like it was.

00:23:32

That growth mindset that got you through.

00:23:37

In your career, at least at the beginning and probably.

00:23:42

All through your career as well.

00:23:44

Absolutely. And and and the focus and the determination that I'm I'm going to get this, I'm going to get this we could call it self-confidence you could call it resilience but it in the end it's really a lot about making sure you know where you're going.

00:23:44

So.

00:24:03

And you're confident that you have the capabilities to get there. There are going to be knowledge gaps, but with the kind of growth mindset, you know that you will learn, but just you know, getting up back again and getting on the center of the ring fighting from the center of the ring, not getting.

00:24:23

Connect with that in mind. Then did you stay with the company or did you apply for another job and tell us a bit about how you move forward?

00:24:35

So my connections with my customers continued and then one of my customers at that point in time was a very large Danish shipping company called Muslin and then one of my contacts in Mushclient phoned up and said, you know what, there's a position in Musk client. Do you want to apply, I can recommend to you.

00:24:56

And then and then I I my son, was just born at that time. He was just closing in on. I don't still remember. It was June 21. That was his first birthday and we were all home. My sister's wedding was on June 20th. My son's first birthday was June 2.

00:25:14

1st and I joined my my masculine job on June 23rd, I finished my son's first birthday, took off the next flight. I was back in UAE to join my job in masculine on June 23rd. Very conscious decision because again, it's, it's that balance. I wanted to strike between family and my career.

00:25:35

So I joined Maersk in 2022.

00:25:40

And and by the time I left them, after 16 years, I had done 9 jobs.

00:25:47

With my client with various promotions with various regional roles, global roles travelling across Middle East Africa, Indian subcontinent and and some of the beautiful but troublesome locations like Pakistan's India, South Sudan and then so on and so forth. So very enriching experience and very grateful for that.

00:26:08

16 years.

00:26:08

Did you choose those roles or did managers meant to you through and sponsor you towards those different roles? How did it work?

00:26:19

So one thing that all my managers recognized was my drive and my drive to success succeed and my commitment to the to the job that I do and and I try to do it, at least my my thought processes, I should do it in a fashion.

00:26:40

Any job that I take, I spent six months in making sure that I fully understand the length and the depth of the job.

00:26:46

And then I identify what's going well. What I should not disturb and what's not going well? How could I fix that so that I build a solid platform for someone to after me to come back and accelerate. But that also came with the disadvantage. I get very bored very soon, so I can't do the same job for more than.

00:27:06

2-3 years Max because by the 2nd year it's like clockwork. I don't need to think when I wake up because I would have set the system to work in a fashion that I would have done that anybody works and can do the job.

00:27:19

Without me, you know, micromanaging or me interfering that the clock starts working on its own, which means I need something new to chew. So it's a combination of my managers recognizing that I'm a little bit ambitious that way.

00:27:36

And I can be thorough. So which means that if there if there is a job that then stretches me a bit more they wouldn't, they wouldn't mind recommending for that job. But mostly it started with myself. I used to put my hand up and I then used to say, you know what? I'm going to put my hand up and then I'll figure this out because if it doesn't scare you.

00:27:58

It's not worth going for that promotion, so it has to scare you a little bit as to how are you going to really do this. How are you going to achieve this role or this position or whatever so.

00:28:10

If I'm half convinced that I can do the job, I put my hand up for that promotion and or apply through the process. I mean worst was a very professional organization. You need to apply to the carrier portal. You go through the normal interview process along with your external candidates, and then you get chosen. So I was lucky to be chosen 9 times in the 16.

00:28:28

Yes.

00:28:29

Yes, and the that stretching of yourself and putting yourself forward when you it's about seizing the opportunities from what you're saying, isn't it as well? Again, as using your network, but it comes from within that intrinsic motivation.

00:28:50

So you do the nine jobs over 16 years and your employer has.

00:29:00

Managed to retain you in that workforce and then you moved on. What happened?

00:29:06

I I just have to maybe pause and give a credit also to a couple of people, you know, right here for for this to happen. My first and foremost is my first manager in in, in the Musk world, he told me. You know what?

00:29:20

You're just about 26 by 30. You need to.

00:29:24

Know where you're going.

00:29:26

Right. And then in, in every conversation you would somewhat bring that in where where are you going? What's the direction, where's the fire and and so on and so forth.

00:29:35

It was, it was that person I still remember, and unfortunately I lost connect with him and but I still remember that he was the first one to really start talking to me about what's next. Where are you going? How are you preparing yourself for the next job? Don't get settled too fast, right. There's a lot more for you to achieve. What's?

00:29:56

Next, and he never really cared about what gender you are. Nothing like he knew at that time I had a I had a 2 year old boy at home and and so on. So that was that was him. I mean, his name is Sanjay Barua. Brilliant leader. I give a lot of credit to him and the second person was my husband at that time. And he said, you know what?

00:30:16

Go on if you want to achieve the world. I mean it doesn't matter. Just go because this is.

00:30:22

My child, as much as yours. So you know we're going to share this responsibility at home. And I never had the pressure at home to make sure that I wake up and I cook and I this and I that it doesn't matter if if one of us have to cook, we cook. If one of us have to make an adjustment quickly to pick up the child from from the babysitting or from the.

00:30:42

The nursery or from the school or from the from the football match we used to do that between us very well coordinated. There were times in the 16 years I used to travel three weeks in a row. I used to come on the weekend, change my bag, go to the next travel and we managed that all the.

00:30:58

And the third person is my son sweetheart that he is. He never, ever ever till today complained and he's just turned 22. He's finishing his graduation in Oslo as I speak, but he never ever came up to me. And he said, you know what, you missed that PTA or you did that or you did that he was. He used to come with me.

00:31:18

I used to take him to my office every Saturday just because my role at that time was very operational, which means sometimes I need to be in the office pretty late or in over the weekend or whatever that.

00:31:30

This I used to take this little boy with me and he used to have a seat and all my colleagues used to entertain him or they all, you know, every. I mean, we were a team. We we we all brought our kids over to the office over the weekend. So you know we could continue the work life balance in a fashion which is doable and he was always.

00:31:50

Is very well aware of of the career that I that I'm I'm in and the kind of the nature of the job that I'm in and the expectation out of it. So it was never ever a point in time where I felt like I need to be a lot more at home because this boy was very responsible and what he needed to do.

00:32:11

This this wouldn't have happened without such support on the back end.

00:32:16

And then from then on, I've had wonderful men and I'm I think I've only had two women managers in my life and rest were all male managers and all of them were were really, really brilliant and encouraging me and and seeing the spark and pushing and and making sure that I'm.

00:32:37

Really, you know, also positioned very well when it comes to talent management, when it comes to internal positioning of a candidate and so on and so forth. So a big shout out to all the men who were you know.

00:32:50

Behind what? What it is today?

00:32:53

As the Chief Commercial officer, what made you decide to go and do a doctorate?

00:33:00

So after many, many years, we were back to being alone at home. And then we said OK, let's go on vacation. 20/20 was COVID and we just looked up which airport was open. We just booked our tickets and we vanish.

00:33:12

And and then one morning we were just walking around the hotel, you know, area. And then he said to me, so what's next? And I'm like, what's next? So he's like, why don't you do your doctorate? And I'm like, why don't you do it? Why are you making me do it? And he was like, no, no, no. You can do it. Of course. It's a busy job.

00:33:32

It's always going to remain that way because we are in an industry which is 24 by 7, even during COVID, we never had a little bit of a break. In fact, we were the busiest during COVID because.

00:33:42

You can imagine right from anything that you see in this room is brought from somewhere and somebody is involved in bringing this and and providing this. And during COVID it was double right from the masks to vaccination to whatever everything had to reach at the right place at the right time. And as as logisticians big shout out to all the logisticians.

00:34:03

Worked a lot during this period, made it happen one way or the.

00:34:07

So so this is what it is. This is going to be a very, very hectic job and it is going to fill the time whether I like it or not. So I wanted to use the mom time that I always used to have until my son left home and put it to some sort of productive use. And that's where the idea of doctorate.

00:34:27

Got it.

00:34:28

I started researching for PhD. Now. PhD would have meant that I would have left the job and then I would have gone into academia for maybe four or five years or and then I came across. I stumbled across the the other format of doing the doctorate, which is the doctorate of Business Administration.

00:34:48

I did my MBA between airport lounges and while I was very busy doing the.

00:34:53

I know how crazy it is, but sometimes you just take that leap of faith and you jump in straight into the thick of it and then you you you figure it out. And I think that's how my journey started. I looked up for universities, which had the flexibility as a start and somewhere.

00:35:12

Where there is a connect in Dubai as well, there is a flexibility in case I cannot complete it within the academic 3 years and and also that I could somewhat manage between my job and Phil. The moms time which is right now awakened, which otherwise would have been not utilized very well.

00:35:33

And it's interesting that you're filling what you perceive is a sort of gap with something else, which again shows your determination. Let's just finish off here and I think to finish off your current role is Chief Commercial Officer. Just capture for us in a few sentences.

00:35:55

How you got there?

00:35:57

So I started after 16 years with Musk. I left Mursk and this company was my customer again. So somebody from this organization call me and said, you know, what would you want to think about working here?

00:36:10

And I said I I didn't really think about it, but let me give it a thought and then this conversation went on for more than a year and then it was.

00:36:22

As destiny would have it, I met somebody and then that gentleman was extremely interesting and very, very knowledgeable, very friendly in terms of how he presented the job to me and so on. So I took, I took the job.

00:36:39

And this is I'm going to be completing five years in October, but this is the third role that I'm doing in this in this organization. Again, it's a combination of not slowing down and putting your hand up when you know when when you think this is something you can do and and it just a side note.

00:37:00

That I've seen many women wanting to be 100% perfect before they put their hand up for a promotion or for whatever that is right sometimes.

00:37:10

We need to just trust ourselves and we need to have that confidence to say we will figure this out, right. There's nothing in this world that we cannot figure out if we put our minds to it, if we are. If you're capable of asking for help and you might not know everything, but there is somebody who knows that and it's only then the personal connect that you need to have.

00:37:32

With that person to and that that simplicity and the humbleness to say, you know what I'm not good at this, would you be my guide? Would you be my mentor? Would you be my coach? Could you teach me how I get to the other side of it? Right. So that's how I started here because there was a lot of learning. It was a big learning.

00:37:48

Curve and then I started one thing at a time and with the mindset again, the growth mindset to say I don't know everything and I don't need to know everything. I'm going to figure.

00:37:59

This.

00:37:59

Out fantastic and some really good advice that you've given to.

00:38:07

Finish our podcasts. It's been absolutely delightful to listen to the many turning points in your career, PREPA, and to hear about how you got from there to here. Thank you.