ESWI Airborne's Podcast

Finding Your Place in Science

• European Scientific Working Group on Influenza (ESWI) • Season 7 • Episode 1

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Welcome to ESWI Airborne: Shaping the Future of Respiratory Virus Research. In this episode, we speak with two outstanding researchers whose work is shaping the future of influenza and respiratory virus science. This conversation forms part of our three-part series on life as a scientist.

Our guests are two recent ESWI Conference prize winners:


Dr Kevin Ciminski, recipient of the Claude Hannoun Prize for Best Body of Work.

He leads an independent research group at the Institute of Virology, University Medical Center Freiburg in Germany, where he studies virus–host interactions of emerging zoonotic influenza viruses.


Dr Marios Koutsakos, awarded the Young Scientist Vaccine Innovation Award.

He is a Group Leader at the Doherty Institute in Melbourne, Australia, focusing on influenza B viruses, immune imprinting, and developing broader and more durable influenza vaccine strategies.


Together, they explore what it means to build a scientific career, define a niche, establish a laboratory and contribute to an international research community. They reflect on the pivotal moments that drew them into virology, the balance between specialised research and big-picture questions, and the skills that have mattered most in their professional growth. They also share lessons learned from mentors and consider where early career scientists can make the greatest impact in the decade ahead.



SPEAKER_00:

Welcome to Sui Airborne. In this series featuring our early career scientists community, we explore how the next generation is shaping the future of respiratory virus research. This series is made possible thanks to the kind support of CSL Sekiris and Sanofi Pasteur.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm Jane Barrett and have the great pleasure of hosting today's conversation. EsWE is a community built on evidence, curiosity, and collaboration. Today, in our early career scientists series, we highlight two people who will certainly help to shape the next decades of influenza and respiratory virus research. The winners of Claude Hanoon Prize for Best Body of Work, Dr. Kevin Siminski, and the Young Scientist Vaccine Innovation Award recipient, Dr. Marius Krasakis. We are really wanting their views about what it means to build a scientific life, finding your niche, shaping a lab, developing critical skills, and contributing to a global scientific community. So let's start with some introductions of our experts. Kevin Siminski is an independent research group leader at the Institute of Virology at the University Medical Center Freiburg in Germany. His work focuses on virus host interactions of emerging zoonotic influenza viruses with particular interest in how these viruses adapt, trigger immune responses, and drive immunopathology. Welcome, Kevin. It's good to have you with us today. And also, we have the great pleasure of talking with Marios, who is a group leader of the Doherty Institute in Melbourne, Australia, where he leads research on influenza B viruses, immune printing, and the development of broader and more durable influenza vaccine strategy. His primary work in the molecular virology and antigenetic evolution of influenza B, followed by postdoctoral research into immunity following influenza on SARS-CoV-2 vaccination or influenza. So welcome to both of you. It's good to have you here. And Kevin, you're coming from Germany, and Marius, you're in my my home country of Australia, I understand. Is that right?

SPEAKER_03:

Correct, yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Good. And Kevin, Germany?

SPEAKER_03:

Germany is right, yes. Thanks for the introduction, Shane.

SPEAKER_01:

Good pleasure. Look, let's first of all just to unravel the core mechanisms. And this question goes to both of you. What single fundamental question about your viruses or immune printing are you currently most focused on? So, Kevin, let's start off with you.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, as you just mentioned, I just got recently funded for um deciphering the interplay of influenza viruses and the immune system. So, what what is my main interest right now is how influenza viruses infect macrophages, as um one of the immune cells that are at the center of uh of infection, and how infection of these macrophages uh shapes the immune response. So we want to understand how the infection can lead to immunopathology and um what we can learn in in order to interfere with severe causes of illness triggered by uh exacerated uh disease by uh by macrophage, by macrophages releasing cytokines.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, congratulations on the grant. That's uh probably well deserved. So, Marius, let's turn to you on immune printing. So, tell us a little bit about what are the single fundamental questions that you're really researching.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, our recent findings suggest that some people have somehow over their lifetime developed antibodies that are broadly protective against many different variants of influenza B viruses. And so we're trying to understand how that kind of immunity develops and what part of the viruses um these antibodies target, and then how can we instruct the immune system to do the same using vaccines so we can establish broadly protective immunity against influenza B viruses?

SPEAKER_01:

Question without notice. I'm really interested. You know, you are at the the forefront of science, both of you. But how is that going to impact populations in the end? Would you like to make a comment of that? Either Kevin or Marius?

SPEAKER_03:

Sure, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Kevin, go ahead.

SPEAKER_04:

Um, so I mean, we have these zoonotic infections right now everywhere around the globe with avian influenza viruses, for example, because they are globally spreading, they are now in dairy cattle, and uh this leads to ever increasing numbers of humans being infected with avian influenza. And these avian influenza viruses are well known to, for example, infect macrophages, leading to the severe cases of disease. And we still don't know why, but it is somehow related to macrophages. So if we understand what is responsible for the severe causes of disease, like what are the triggers, inflammatory responses, they would definitely open up some new therapeutic options, for example. Something that can we that can be used to cure these uh these individuals.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, thanks. Maurice, your perspectives?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I mean, our our main goal is to try and reduce the impact, the clinical impact of influenza B viruses. So influenza B viruses have been generally overlooked compared to influenza A viruses, but they account on average for a quarter of influenza infections every year. Um, the majority of those infections are in um school-age children and adolescents, and in those age groups, influenza B viruses can have um can develop severe complications and even cause fatal disease. And so our our overarching aim is to try and reduce that burden for those populations.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, that's that's really interesting. I I kind of sit in the latter half of life, so you know, in my work, so it's really interesting to hear that. So let's move on to you know, your scientific place. It's always fascinating to understand, Kevin, you know, why you chose this field. So your work on zoonotic and bat-derived influenza viruses really sits at a rare frontier. How did you choose this direction?

SPEAKER_04:

Oh, that was actually by accident. So I was given a completely different uh PhD topic at the beginning of my scientific career, and um I told my supervisor that I don't like this topic. It is not my topic. There wasn't there was basically not a match. And uh then we we sit together and we're discussing options, and then we came up with this um bad influenza viruses. It was also one thing that people were working in our lab, and um we identified that we basically don't know what the zoonotic potential of these bad flu viruses is. So um we thought rather than um focusing on this, at least to me, not so interesting topic, we should uh should switch gears a little bit and uh go into the direction of the zoonotic aspect of these bad flu viruses.

SPEAKER_01:

So opportunistic, you know, um, which is which is really you know not not so rare, but it's an opportunistic um uh focus. Now, what about you, Marios? How did you um select this field or did you?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, opportunistically as well, I would say. Um serendipity for the most part. Um, as an undergraduate student, quite a while ago now, I worked with Wendy Barkley uh for a summer research placement. And I think by chance I was given a project on influenza B viruses. Um, and I thought that was quite interesting and captivating. But sort of starting to look into the project on influenza B viruses, I came to realize how overlooked influenza B viruses are and all the different questions that are uh that we have for influenza B, but we don't have answers to. And I think that sort of stayed with me for all that time since then.

SPEAKER_01:

Look, you know, it's it's very interesting, isn't it? So often it's opportunistic and not what you've planned. I want us to sort of, you know, step, you know, zoom out now and talk about, you know, how science demands such deep expertise, but you really need a wide lens to be able to be to be able to then focus on you know your particular subject area. How do you balance that focused approach with the broader question when you're dealing with with respiratory virus science? So, Kevin, do you have any perspectives about that?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, that's actually a good question. And so to me, a question is always interesting when you can explain it in simple words to your parents. So if they get the research question, I think it's an interesting research question. If you have to talk a lot, describe a lot, that's super complicated and people won't get it. And you probably are not able to create a bigger picture. So if I can create a big picture and describe a research project in simple words, I think that's a good research project. That's what we what we usually try.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and Maurice, you you were nodding as Kevin was talking. Is that is that how you kind of deal with these zooming out and coming back in?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and also I think sometimes there might be uh um questions that we are looking into for influenza B specifically, but influenza B doesn't exist in a vacuum, and you know, we we have to stay up to date with the influenza A field, and advances in that field can be applicable to influenza B. And also think the reverse, there might be more generalizable principles that come out of influenza B research that can inform influenza A. And in a broader respiratory virus, um, I guess aspect a lot of the techniques we use to understand immunity to influenza viruses is directly applicable to other respiratory viruses. And that was something a lot of people, I guess, utilized during the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic, where a lot of people pivoted from their influenza or other respiratory virus research to contribute to the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic.

SPEAKER_01:

You really have to be very adaptable, not only in your techniques, but responding to the environmental variants as well. So thank you. I I want to go on to the transformative nature of your work. Um in the next five years, and uh five years goes very quickly, what's the single most transformative discovery you hope to publish? Well, we'll go to Marios first. Um, you know, what do you expect to be publishing on in five years?

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, we we hope to make advances in the design of broadly acting vaccines, as I mentioned, but one of the more exciting questions we're trying to address is um whether influenza B viruses are really restricted to humans and to what extent they exist in animals. And so I would like to think that in the next five years we have more conclusive answers to some of the questions we have at the moment. They're at more preliminary stages, but we have some exciting findings on that.

SPEAKER_01:

So we can expect um you know some articles within the next five years from you and your team.

SPEAKER_02:

I would hope so.

SPEAKER_01:

I need more confidence, Marios.

SPEAKER_02:

I can't go on the network saying that I will publish that in five years, because what if I don't?

SPEAKER_01:

So, Kevin, you know what's the what's the big transformative discovery of you and your team in the next five years?

SPEAKER_04:

Um so I think it will be about the role of macrophages. So we know these cells are around, they are important to clear infection, but they can also be responsible for driving disease. And I think we will definitely shed light on the role of macrophages and how the response of these cells is um is influenced by influenza viruses. So we have some good ideas, and we we have the the leading hypothesis here that depending on the virus, the macrophage response is uh different. So we hope we hope to see that depending on the virus that is infecting these macrophages, we see different host responses.

SPEAKER_01:

So, Kevin, question without notice what about 10 years? Or where do you you and your team expect to be in 10 years?

SPEAKER_04:

In 10 years? So in 10 years, we hope to apply all these insights we we gained from studying bad viruses, bad influenza viruses, and influencing influenza viruses. We hope to apply all these insights, this information we gained to other emerging viruses, and there will certainly be more emerging viruses in the next 10 years because of all climate change, you name it, that will definitely lead to more zoonotic infections with different viruses, not necessarily restricted to influenza viruses. And we hope to like um build a foundation of information that can be used to tackle these umtic viruses.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, you don't work in isolation. So now I want to talk a little bit about you know building a lab and a team and a and a scientific home. Um, you know, Marius, you've grown your team at the Doherty Institute. One of the interesting things that I want to hear from you is how do you build this culture that's collaborative rather than competitive, or is it a bit of both?

SPEAKER_02:

Um, I would say it's generally more collaborative. The Doherty, I think by design, is designed to and to promote collaboration across different members. I guess what I find from my own collaborations is that they're generally based on mutual interests, and there's a lot of that in the Doherty when it comes to influenza. And so they start based on that and then they're built on and maintained by clear communication about what everyone's aims is, what everyone's expectations are, what goals we want to achieve together, and then how we go on to do that, and then also by respecting each other's expertise and points of views, but also I guess each other's times.

SPEAKER_01:

Everyone has a lot of things to do, but you know, but it's a very driven profession, isn't it? You know, it's competitive in terms of you know getting your grants in and things like that. But it seems as though you work as a team to get that over the line.

SPEAKER_02:

I I find we can achieve more together than individually. Um the the sum of the parts is greater than what's the saying? There's a saying.

SPEAKER_01:

Yep, the sum of the parts is greater than the whole. Yes, yeah, you're absolutely true. Um, and Kevin, you were nodding, and this is you know, you've only just recently, you know, probably over the last couple of years, established your own research group. I want to know what you were completely unprepared for in developing this group. Was there anything that really surprised you in trying to bring people together?

SPEAKER_04:

Um so people were are always complaining about bureaucracy, and I just um yeah, I'm facing it right now. This is like um, I was unprepared. I mean, I I had I had no idea. So this is really time consuming to get to all of to get legal permissions and stuff, um, get in in touch with all the the responsible people just for hiring um candidates. So this takes like forever. It's very time consuming and has not necessarily something to do with doing science.

SPEAKER_01:

And isn't isn't that such the case? You know, we're expecting scientists to actually be also admin people. Um it would be it would be really helpful to be able to really focus all of your energies, you know, on your passion, but that's not the case in this world today. Um mentorship. Mentorships are really important in the development of young scientists. Has there been a single mentor that you can just bring to mind and and what characteristics really inspired you to be who you are today? Marius?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I've been I've been very fortunate to have great mentors throughout my career, uh, both from my supervisors but also uh from peers. So I guess everyone provides a little bit of a different um type of mentoring. My latest supervisor and um mentor Stephen Ken has been very supportive of growing my independence uh and establishing my own team. And so I think that's been very and very important, I guess, aspect of my um development as an independent uh group leader. Um not only by providing guidance and advice, but also by actively giving me opportunities to achieve and progress my goal. And that's something I try to bring in with my own team when I mentor and supervise them by try to give them opportunities to achieve their goals.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, it it does take some courage to step back and create space for others. Absolutely. And so I think what you've you've talked about there is is really a mentor that recognizes the future of science, you know, which is um, you know, sometimes not so um not so evident in our community. And Kevin, what about you? You know, is there a mentor that comes to mind and and how did they support you in the development of your career?

SPEAKER_04:

So if I if I would pick one single name, it would be uh my my mentor during my PhD and early postdoc. So he was really supportive, he uh was giving me all the freedom that is required to do science. Um, and he was always challenging uh the hypotheses we we came up in the lab, and he still does. So and we have a very good peer community here because of um of so many good scientists. So he, so my mentor, but also the peer community here is um really uh good in in shaping the the research questions, and yeah, that's something that that really um was was helpful for uh becoming uh a good and independent researcher.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, it struck me when you were talking that sometimes we need to sit with discomfort, you know, in continuing to ask the question of the question and unpack it. And not all scientists are prepared to do that. So to have a mentor that questions, you know, and places you in an uncomfortable place, you know, to then And search further, you know, is an ideal that you obviously take forward. Um, uh we're now going to talk to the topics of community, collaboration, and the future. So when we talk about the community, what does the scientific community mean to you, especially in a global field? Because we all met at the recent ESWE conference. So what does it do for you, this scientific community, and how helpful or not is it? Marios?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I think for me, you know, the scientific community is a group of people with aligned interest in advancing the influenza field and um a shared vision in having you know an impact that helps people against this uh virus. And so I I guess what I'm finding is that that that sort of aligned interest and shared vision brings people together. And um I've been very fortunate to establish a variety of collaborations through those international meetings, I guess we saw.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, you you said that you've been very fortunate, and I I want to turn the tables too, um, because you know, we have been very fortunate to hear, you know, your work and the work of Kevin and other um early career scientists, and that's how we generate you know inspiration from one another. Um, this shared vision is so critically important in the field of science. So, Kevin, what does the scientific community mean for you?

SPEAKER_04:

Um, I mean, we are all sitting in the same boat, we're having similar interests, often similar interests. And I think what we learned during the pandemic is if we collaborate and combine forces, we can be very quick and very successful. And therefore, the scientific community is I'm completely open, and I'm really happy to collaborate. And if you are open and you are keen to collaborate, at least my take has always been people want to get in touch with you, and there are often if you come back from um meetings like the as we you have a ton of collaborations or research interests um that that could kick off a new project. So meeting these people, these scientists is always um an inspiration, a source of inspiration.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, look, I I certainly agree. Um, and you know, these conferences are so very important, and the SWI gives the opportunity to exchange knowledge, but also, you know, sit and understand where there's intersections of of work. Um, where can early career scientists have the biggest impact in influenza and respiratory virus research over the next decade? Kevin, where do you think that we're going with this?

SPEAKER_04:

Uh this goes probably into Mario's direction. So if if some early career career scientists can um design some uh vaccine against uh emerging pandemic strains, we are all safe. So I think vaccine approaches or some immune approaches to prevent um emerging viruses is definitely a very hot topic. If you can can control this one, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, look, and and Marios, perhaps if you can pick up on that, I'm really intrigued about your work in school children. I think this is an area that uh requires further attention. Do you see this, you know, as as as research over the next decade?

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, yeah, for sure. And I think the you know research using samples from children is inherently more complex uh in many ways. Um I think for me, one thing that I guess we need to be thinking more about the next decade is how to um integrate more the different disciplines that we all work in. Um there's a lot of opportunities, and there's also a greater need, I think, for more interdisciplinary science. Um, that includes more basic science, more translational science, more veterinary science, more zoonotic assessments, and more of the computational um, I guess, aspects that we see coming up quite quickly over the last few years. So I think for me, finding better ways to integrate the interdisciplinary aspects of our science will be quite important.

SPEAKER_01:

Look, thank you. Um now, if you're really talking to someone who's just starting their PhD or facing setbacks, what's the one piece of information, advice that um you would impart? So take yourself back to when you were just starting, and what's the one piece of advice that you would say, ah, that helped me keep moving forward? So, Kevin, and then Marios?

SPEAKER_04:

So when you start your PhD, you are highly motivated. That's good, and you need it. Um, but you will very rapidly see that experiments fail. So you need to be very um tolerant to frustration. And probably telling people that you not that you do 90% of your experiments that are trash, they won't work, you will fail in 90%, but you do it for the 10% that work, and that will shed light on something no one ever has done before. So you need to go for the 10% that work out. So failure is good. It is necessary because uh you will see what doesn't work. It will teach you something, and then you have to rethink, recalibrate your your research idea and your hypothesis, and then you go back and do another one.

SPEAKER_01:

I couldn't agree with you more. So, Marius?

SPEAKER_02:

No, I I agree as well. I think you know, finding a way to develop that resilience against the inevitable failure uh is key. And I think what helps there is remembering why you want to do this in the first place and what drives you to get up in the morning and go and try that experiment again and hope for the best, or yeah, I think developing that sense of resilience is the key.

SPEAKER_01:

I think people in your field must have resilience because it's really that 10% that you're looking for. Now, as we bring this podcast to a close, I'm going to ask both of you know what is the key message that you want, you know, the audience to hear from you today? So let's start with Kevin first. Kevin, what's the one key thing that you want people to to know from this podcast?

SPEAKER_04:

Stay curious and stay open-minded. That's not only a a take-home message for science, but I think for um for the entire life.

SPEAKER_01:

I'll take that one. Thank you. And Marios?

SPEAKER_02:

I I couldn't agree more. I think the open-mindedness and curiousness is fundamental to science and life. I guess the other thing that I would try to remember is um or advise people is to I guess believe in science and the work that people do. Um don't believe everything else you hear out there, but scientists do have the best interest in mind.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, you've both been an inspiration to me today. Um it's uh it's a great honor to be able to be in conversation with you both. As young scientists, you know, I am very hopeful for the future. You know, what you've talked about is not only the essence of your work, but the people who you are. And there takes a certain, as we say, resilience and courage and tenacity to be who you are and to lead the teams that you do. Um, so I want to thank both of you for your insights and the work that you're doing in advancing our understanding of influenza and respiratory viruses. And thank you to our listeners for joining us for this episode of ESWE Airborne. To learn more about ESWE and our community of scientists, clinicians, and public health leaders, visit eswe.org. We really do look forward to continuing, you know, this early career scientist series with more voices shaping the future of our field. But today, uh, we've had the great pleasure of talking with Dr. Kevin Siminski and Dr. Marius Kusakis. Thank you very much for your time today.

SPEAKER_00:

SWE Airborne is brought to you by SWE, the European Scientific Working Group on Influenza and other acute respiratory viruses. These episodes would not be possible without the team's efforts, and we would like to extend special thanks to our SWE Secretariat, our technical and IT teams, our arts team, and our host Claire Taylor. The podcasts are recorded virtually, and we thank our guests for their participation in this inspiring series. Talks are adapted to a global audience and are intended to be educational. For any specific medical questions you may have, these should be addressed to your local general practitioner. Many thanks to our sponsoring partners, and thank you for listening.

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