Jason and Lauren Vallotton host Aaron and Jenna Zint as guests in Part 1 of a profound exploration of the intimate conversation about Sex in Marriage. These three questions, and more, are answered in this episode:
Their candid sharing illuminates the highs and lows of building a sexually fulfilling union, piercing through the layer of silence that often shrouds this delicate aspect of marital bliss. This episode promises an unvarnished look at the journey from purity to passion, unpacking the weighty influences of past experiences and the sheer power of connection and vulnerability between partners.
Navigating the complexities of physical desires and emotional intricacies, we engage in heartfelt discussions about the ebb and flow of sexual drives, the pressures that accompany our most intimate moments, and how these elements craft the tapestry of our relationships. The Zints, with remarkable transparency, reveal the transformative impact of addressing unmet expectations, the echo of performance anxiety in the bedroom, and the liberating act of prioritizing emotional bonds over carnal conquests. These conversations are a testament to the courage it takes to confront the unspoken, fostering a space of trust and growth for couples like Jason and Lauren, who graciously share their story.
As Jason and Lauren lead this conversation, they also contemplate the practicalities that accompany an evolving sexual relationship. This episode is an invitation for couples seeking rejuvenation and a more profound sense of togetherness. The insights of this episode serve as a lighthouse for lovers venturing through the sometimes-choppy waters of physical and emotional intimacy, offering guidance, compassion, and a shared vision for a fulfilling intimate life. Join the Vallottons to harness the transformative power of trust and communication on the sacred journey of marriage.
-----
Aaron and Jenna Zint bring nearly 10 years of experience to emotional and relational health coaching, specializing in developing healthy habits around growth area goals. They have worked with a diverse range of male and female clients, empowering them to unlock their full potential and achieve lasting results. Aside from coaching, Jenna is a Bethel Ministry School alumni and deacon at Bethel Church in Redding, California. She runs a business called The Habit Lab. Aaron also graduated from Bethel School of Ministry and is the leader of The Whole Man Project at Bethel Church. They can also be found in the podcast space with The Habit Lab and Marriage Lab. The Zints have been married for 14 years and have three children. Jenna's passion is helping people put action-steps to their breakthrough and healing journey, and Aaron's passion is helping men break out of areas they feel stuck in. Together, they're committed to providing personalized support tailored to each client's unique needs and aspirations.
Connect with Lauren:
Instagram
Facebook
Connect with Jason:
Jay’s Instagram
Jay’s Facebook
BraveCo Instagram
www.braveco.org
Jason and Lauren Vallotton host Aaron and Jenna Zint as guests in Part 1 of a profound exploration of the intimate conversation about Sex in Marriage. These three questions, and more, are answered in this episode:
Their candid sharing illuminates the highs and lows of building a sexually fulfilling union, piercing through the layer of silence that often shrouds this delicate aspect of marital bliss. This episode promises an unvarnished look at the journey from purity to passion, unpacking the weighty influences of past experiences and the sheer power of connection and vulnerability between partners.
Navigating the complexities of physical desires and emotional intricacies, we engage in heartfelt discussions about the ebb and flow of sexual drives, the pressures that accompany our most intimate moments, and how these elements craft the tapestry of our relationships. The Zints, with remarkable transparency, reveal the transformative impact of addressing unmet expectations, the echo of performance anxiety in the bedroom, and the liberating act of prioritizing emotional bonds over carnal conquests. These conversations are a testament to the courage it takes to confront the unspoken, fostering a space of trust and growth for couples like Jason and Lauren, who graciously share their story.
As Jason and Lauren lead this conversation, they also contemplate the practicalities that accompany an evolving sexual relationship. This episode is an invitation for couples seeking rejuvenation and a more profound sense of togetherness. The insights of this episode serve as a lighthouse for lovers venturing through the sometimes-choppy waters of physical and emotional intimacy, offering guidance, compassion, and a shared vision for a fulfilling intimate life. Join the Vallottons to harness the transformative power of trust and communication on the sacred journey of marriage.
-----
Aaron and Jenna Zint bring nearly 10 years of experience to emotional and relational health coaching, specializing in developing healthy habits around growth area goals. They have worked with a diverse range of male and female clients, empowering them to unlock their full potential and achieve lasting results. Aside from coaching, Jenna is a Bethel Ministry School alumni and deacon at Bethel Church in Redding, California. She runs a business called The Habit Lab. Aaron also graduated from Bethel School of Ministry and is the leader of The Whole Man Project at Bethel Church. They can also be found in the podcast space with The Habit Lab and Marriage Lab. The Zints have been married for 14 years and have three children. Jenna's passion is helping people put action-steps to their breakthrough and healing journey, and Aaron's passion is helping men break out of areas they feel stuck in. Together, they're committed to providing personalized support tailored to each client's unique needs and aspirations.
Connect with Lauren:
Instagram
Facebook
Connect with Jason:
Jay’s Instagram
Jay’s Facebook
BraveCo Instagram
www.braveco.org
Welcome back everyone to Dates, Mates and Babies with the Valitans. I know you guys are fired up for today's episode and we have a good episode coming up for you.
Speaker 2:We do. We are continuing in our series on sex today, yes, and so thank you for indulging us. We are enjoying receiving your emails with questions that we're going to hopefully incorporate into our different episodes that we have coming up, but I'm really excited about today's episode. It's actually part one of a conversation about sex, particularly in marriage. So sex and marriage that's what we're going after today, and we have a couple of our closest friends with us. They've actually been on the podcast before early, early days, when this was just a pet project.
Speaker 1:Now, what is it? What is it? Is it a serious pet?
Speaker 3:It's basically a child.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we've got Aaron and Jenna Zint with us, and these two are amazing. They have got three kids. They've been married for almost 15 years. We have the privilege of doing life with them here in Reading, california.
Speaker 1:Can I say something about that?
Speaker 2:Please do.
Speaker 1:Because I think the reason why I continue and we continue to bring them in I bring Aaron in on my Barif Co podcast is because these are people that we deeply respect.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:The way that they live their life, but they're also incredibly knowledgeable in the areas that we're talking about. So Aaron has spent so much time in helping men work through sexual addiction and break pornography addictions, and Jenna spent just so much time in her own life building healthy habits, coaching women and just helping married couples, and so together this is like a power pack couple that brings a lot to everything that we do, and so I love having them in and they have a sex life.
Speaker 2:They do and they enjoy it, which is great.
Speaker 2:I just want to say, too, that one of my high values in life is actually having friends who love their marriages and who inspire me to have a better marriage Like I just know that one of my, if we're talking about circles of intimacy like I'm not going to have. I've realized this about myself. I'm not going to have people at super close, intimate friendship places who don't really love their spouse and who don't work on their marriage. Because I can't afford it, like I can't afford to be. I can't afford a lot of friends that don't proactively work really hard on their marriage, because it is so much work and to have a good one, you just have to really be after it. And so I'm always inspired by Jenna and Aaron and the work that they do in their marriage and in their family.
Speaker 1:Sometimes I yell at Lauren. Act like Jenna, oh my.
Speaker 2:God he never actually said that, but he might have thought it.
Speaker 4:Can you?
Speaker 1:be more like Jenna. One time while pregnant I did ask Aaron it was not my highest moment.
Speaker 4:I was like I bet Jason wouldn't do that, and I learned quickly that does not build connection. Not build connection.
Speaker 3:I think I am blocked, bad out. Do you remember it hurt your heart so bad I was like I'm sorry, I'm sure it did.
Speaker 1:It was so awful. And then Aaron yelled back Jay sucks too.
Speaker 4:My finest moment.
Speaker 2:Well, today, as we talk about sex and marriage, I thought specifically to have the zits on this episode because of the work that Aaron does, but, more than that, because of their intentionality inside of marriage and their commitment to health in this area of marriage. I really feel like you guys have done hard work over the years to get to a place where your sexual intimacy is a real, true fruit of the hard work you've done to build your connection in marriage. And we know that sex inside of marriage is all about connection, and so, anyways, just yay and thank you for being here.
Speaker 3:Yeah, thanks for having us.
Speaker 4:That's such a good line, though, too, that it's the fruit, like an awesome sex. Life is the fruit of a healthy and thriving connection.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 4:Versus like getting so many people get it backwards like the horse before before the car. Yes, so I agree Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Hey, can we take just like three minutes and have you guys share what was your first experience with like sex inside of marriage, like the first, the early years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how did it? I didn't meet your expectations.
Speaker 3:How was it back then Towards the honeymoon night was well, yeah.
Speaker 4:Well, it's interesting. I would just say like history, because I think it's helpful to know what we came into marriage with. I had no boyfriends, no sexual experience. I'd kissed one person so I was like I had killed the purity game, but then I almost think a more accurate description would be I felt I was very asexual, Like there was not. Actually, it wasn't a lot to manage. I just shut it down entirely.
Speaker 2:That had not been awakened yes.
Speaker 1:It was in a coma, oh my gosh.
Speaker 4:So I think a lot of the early years was us untangling that and realizing having to actually go after oh, there's not a magic switch. That happens Like it's a muscle that I haven't used and I don't instantly know, how to do this or be comfortable. I also think it's so vulnerable showing up and someone I didn't realize how often my. I think we all have coping mechanisms when vulnerable, like with vulnerability and mine was to get goofy which is not a helpful sexy, not a sexy trait.
Speaker 2:His favorite is when I get goofy.
Speaker 4:Is it really? No, he hates it. Oh my gosh, it might be a girl thing.
Speaker 1:Now you're a comedian. Wow, that's amazing.
Speaker 4:I'll do an accent. He's like nope. I'm like, oh, sorry, Sorry.
Speaker 3:I have a loosened up. So for me, having had sexual experiences before marriage and having lots of porn experience before marriage, I went into it with so many expectations that I didn't realize were there. Like you could ask me hey, what are your expectations? I would have given you the right answer.
Speaker 4:I mean, we had this conversation, oh yeah. You did give the right answer, yeah.
Speaker 3:I just didn't give the most self-aware answer, got it, and so there was a lot of disappointment because she didn't show up the way that my fantasies had always played out. Yeah, and one of those being just like she was actually showing up and going like, hey, we're friends, let's have fun, and I'm like that's not what this is. You know, this was part of my like, I would say, a pornographic lens through which I viewed sex in general, and so it was no porn I ever watched was there like goofiness. That wasn't a part of it, and so I think that was super, not, I think. I know it was very difficult for me and it was very difficult for her, because she's like wait, what am I doing wrong? And I'm like everything you know and through I'm saying this through my actions and through the hurt he was so kind so he never said it.
Speaker 4:It was probably slow drawn out pain versus like we didn't have dramatic insults or anything like that, but then I the like.
Speaker 4:The takeaway that I got was I can't show up like myself in sex because it's not sexy. So then there was this disconnect of like. Okay, well then, is it an alter ego? I like I don't really quite know how to be sexy. I know some of it like maybe goofiness is over exaggerated, but that's also just authentically who I am. So figuring out like it almost feels like an onion. You know it's not clear cut what's dysfunction and what's health. As we both went on that journey, even the Aaron said like he couldn't vocalize it was like years of oh. I think my buried question right here is you know like yes, pulling back the layers to like.
Speaker 4:What am I really disappointed at? Oh, is that even a realistic expectation.
Speaker 3:Right. Yeah, that's really good, that's the three minute history.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we should say the night of though, the night of we, yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, the night, so the night of like I I was like had all this stuff. I'm like, okay, I'm going to do this, I'm going to try this, I'm going to try this I like got the whole smorgasbord ready for her and she's like confused, like what, what are you doing? And I was just like I'm doing all the great stuff and then basically, she's.
Speaker 1:I was like this is what, this is what you do.
Speaker 3:Like this is, but not realizing that that comes from somewhere, and if you haven't learned that, even if it was a bad learning, it doesn't come from it. Yeah, anyways, she goes at one point like, hey, let's do this thing already, cause I was trying all this four place stuff, and she thought, well, the intercourse is the main thing. So, like, let's do this thing. What I heard was, like, I don't enjoy this, let's get this over with, because I and I had, you know, because of all the things that I had, and I also was doing a lot of mind reading all the time. And so, um, yeah, that was a very, very I would call it traumatic, because it did definitely frame to the next few years of our life and of things that I held inside and suppressed and was super sad about, and so, yeah, it was painful.
Speaker 4:And then throw on top of it like physically Well, so I have ADHD and it means that it's harder for me to concentrate and keep my brain in one spot. So frankly, they actually say I've listened to some like research about women with ADHD have a harder time orgasming sometimes, because how many times do you have to do that? Because how much of a mental focus it is to be present and it's already hard for us. So we had I mean, just to speak frankly, it was we were seven years into marriage before I ever had an orgasm.
Speaker 1:So dynamic. How did that affect you?
Speaker 4:Oh man, there were so many layers. One, I felt like the narrative already I'm not good at sex, so then that was like proof of like I'm just even physically not good at it, let alone being sexy of this persona, you know. And then, two, it was just so much reoccurring pain. It's like every time we had sex I failed. He felt like he failed because I didn't have an orgasm. I felt like I failed because I couldn't get into an orgasm. So, even though we had, we like he felt all the I don't know like chemical reaction from it.
Speaker 4:I had an orgasm every time, so it was actually disconnecting, I would say, because it felt like we both failed and then be so many days, like times afterwards we just sit and both be sad about it.
Speaker 1:It's so horrible, it's the worst, but then I hadn't heard anyone.
Speaker 4:The reason I like say it so plainly is I hadn't heard anyone that hadn't had an orgasm, so it was a shame thing. So I wasn't. Even though we had all these like vulnerable friendships, I wasn't talking about it at that time, and even though even probably a little bit of shame for him that like maybe in the narrative that he couldn't get me there with as an orgasm I wanting to cover him, so I probably like that was part of not talking about it.
Speaker 4:So now I'm like okay, since talking about it a little more, I hear so many like I mean not at a time, but probably like it's a lot. There's a lot of people who have ears and I'm like oh, there's already a. You know, like, hormonally we're so different with what sex gives us, so then to have that gap be even further is just. It's a really hard dynamic. Yes, it is Gosh, that's wild. Did you guys work out like pretty quickly.
Speaker 1:I mean I was fine. Yes, yes, Very quickly, maybe too quick.
Speaker 2:That has never been hard for us, I think when I think back to our early years of marriage, I would say I did have boyfriends. I had never had intercourse with anybody, but I had plenty of sexual experiences with different people and so some of that wasn't unfamiliar to me. But I would say I wildly underestimated the difference between sexual experiences outside of covenant and sexual experiences inside of covenant marriage and it didn't take very long for me to realize oh, these are two different worlds, because it's actually not even about the same thing.
Speaker 2:The context is everything. So I think we think of ourselves as and we are. We're created by God as sexual beings, like by nature, in his image. We're created as sexual humans, but the context in which that sexual activity plays out is, it makes the meaning of it, and it is completely different, and so what I noticed very quickly inside of marriage was how much our connection affected my desire for any experience, any sexual experience with him whatsoever and how incredibly impacted I was by stress.
Speaker 2:I would say that was probably when I think back to our first couple of years of marriage. The physical act of having sex was not difficult for me. I didn't feel overly vulnerable in sex either. I felt comfortable in my vulnerability. I felt frustrated by how different our sex drives were and I felt frustrated that he wanted something inside of our marriage that I felt too stressed or too tired to give. And I was frustrated by the dynamic.
Speaker 2:I wasn't even really mad at him about it. I was almost like God why did you make it like this?
Speaker 3:Jenna has said that I was like when I get to heaven.
Speaker 4:I'm going to ask him a couple of questions. Yeah, and one of.
Speaker 2:I mean, I could tell you like we took a pre-marriage class where we talked about how men and women are created differently and they're motivated by different things, and you're going to find that inside of marriage all along, I'm like, yeah, I don't know, she's frigging cougar, she's all over me.
Speaker 4:No, Isn't that true, though? Before marriage, before marriage.
Speaker 3:You just get such a wildly different idea than what's reality.
Speaker 1:Women are so deceiving, oh my gosh.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's the takeaway here. That's why I call her even now, oh my God.
Speaker 4:But I do you know the concept about mental load and how?
Speaker 2:women carry so much.
Speaker 4:I think that is part of what plays into the stress that even though we're both in the same house, the hard to get present to, it's almost like the luxury of getting to that space where you have capacity to like connect sexually when we don't have the hormones that they do.
Speaker 2:I'm like it is hard. It is really hard and I think that when I look back on it, there was a lot of years where I wasn't actually positive my needs were going to get met, and not because I didn't trust him, I'm sorry. Sexual needs.
Speaker 3:No, just needs in general.
Speaker 2:So like we obviously we got married, we had three kids, and so I mean, there wasn't a day and an ex-wife and an ex-wife in the picture and work and family and all the things.
Speaker 2:But I just remember feeling like how am I supposed to even think about sex in this context? I can barely disconnect from these children, much less my own brain. That's wrapped up in all of these the mental load, the details of life, the, the adjustment that I was in the middle of, and then feeling like I'm, I'm. I was shocked by how uninterested I was most of the time.
Speaker 3:And when.
Speaker 2:I look back on it, I think a lot of it had to do with well, it's that difference between like Jason really really does feel most connected to me after we've had sex. I don't need sex in order to feel most connected to him, and in those early years I was so unsure if he was going to actually meet my deepest emotional needs, like I had a lot of fear of having to like carry all the load myself. I had a lot of fear of being alone in the weight of life.
Speaker 2:I was scared that I was going to drown in all of our responsibilities and that he, just being wired differently than me, wasn't carrying the list in his head and so then I would be by myself. So there was a lot of questions that were causing me to wonder if I was going to be taken care of, and so my desire to connect with him sexually was so low because I was trying to figure out if I even respected and wanted. Do you know what I mean? It wasn't like. It wasn't like I was literally asking myself do I even respect him?
Speaker 2:It wasn't that, but there were these underlying questions all these underlying questions and fears, probably that were causing me to like just my sex drive just sunk to the bottoms of the oceans of life. I was just gone, and so the frustration about that. So when I you know in that, even just thinking about those early years, I think, when we talk now to married couples, having been in it for 13 and having seen a lot of change in that area, I do think that sex inside of marriage is so misunderstood by so many people, especially in the church and then especially in the young years of marriage. What did you say?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I do think. I think that and it's a lot of what Aaron talked about in the very beginning is we? We live in such a hyper sexual culture that where we're getting messages all the time about what sex is going to be. And that message is sex is going to be. It's going to be fast, it's going to be intense, it's going to be exciting. Exciting the. You know the woman is going to be all crazy and all over you and you know overwhelmed with desire.
Speaker 4:Yeah, overwhelmed with desire.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and, and you know these, these are going to be the best moments of your life and everyone's. You know the ruining families to have more sex and guys are, you know, spending tons of money on it, and I mean, that's what we get fed, that's what our culture is fed is that sex is the ultimate fulfillment and life for both you and then in our dating experiences are like that. It's like because you can't have it. Oh my gosh, you want it so bad. And you get to the moment so many times of where you're like both abstaining, but by your fingernails, like barely abstaining and wasn't that close, and and you don't realize that you're living in a world that's not real.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:It's not fully real. You're not carrying the responsibility. I didn't you just go poop two minutes ago.
Speaker 4:Sorry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally.
Speaker 4:Or could you brush your teeth real quick yeah.
Speaker 1:We have. You know, the conversation earlier about. You know why do I have to remind you to take out the trash and you know why did you talk to me like that and why are you so over responsible for the kids? Well, we didn't live in that, we're not living in that world, and so we're living in a slice of perfection. Where in perfection, you know, in Hawaii, lauren, and I don't have to ask ourselves, you know, are you ready? It's like, well, there's no pressures and oh my gosh vacation.
Speaker 4:Sex is the best.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:No kids.
Speaker 1:But you're saying that, oh yeah, but we don't live in that and so we get back to Lauren and I think you should tell the story Eventually. Where we kind of ended up is we hit like year I don't know four, three or four and I was really struggling with a lot of anxiety, a lot. And Lauren, which hiked her anxiety up because her hyper responsible over responsible. And you know our world with the ex-wife and sharing kids back and forth, and you know it was this perfect mix of I wanted sex because of how that helps my anxiety and makes me feel connected to her, just my sex drive alone, so those two things. And she is like desperate to solve all the other things and just cannot wait to get a moment alone without me there and doesn't fully trust me and is wondering, like what the heck is my life? And I think you coming to this place where you're like what is sex? Why do we have to have sex?
Speaker 1:Like I remember you and your honesty and vulnerability telling me like why, isn't it important.
Speaker 4:I don't know why we have to have sex. Did you say it really soft, so it wasn't Okay? I was like cause that question?
Speaker 2:can feel like inviting kindness or like shit, like devastating it wasn't at him, it was just more of like ugh like I'm just kind of
Speaker 1:at the end of my rope here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was in tears and I just remember feeling like why is sex even important? Why does it even matter which I actually thought would be a kind of a cool discussion question, even for this episode is like okay, on the other side of that crisis of faith of sorts like why is it so important? What would we want people to know about? Why is sex and marriage so important?
Speaker 1:Well, I think in the beginning, like you're asking that question because it was so painful, Exactly. And that's a like, that's a valid question and so that's why I love this question a bunch. Yeah, it's important.
Speaker 2:I actually think that if you did at the, if I knew, if I understood really deeply at the beginning of our marriage why sex was so important, it wouldn't have taken so long to get to a place where we really had a thriving sex life.
Speaker 4:And also having an answer, versus avoiding asking the question that would be painful, feels so different. You know like oh, I know why versus like oh, don't ask that, because that could unravel so much and be so hard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you want to take a stab at it.
Speaker 3:Oh man, this trying to like really dissect that it feels difficult. The first thing that comes to mind is just thinking about the marriages I know of that don't have it and and what is. So I go like, okay, what's missing in a marriage that is sexless? And there is this sense that you know, we, we say in the pre marriage class that we teach is sex is meant to be the exclamation mark on the end of the sentence. I am loved and connected to you.
Speaker 3:Wow, and so this without that exclamation mark like you can have. You can have a connection, you can have this intimacy. But there is a sense that that intimacy is like sex, is this gift that when you unwrap it, when it's like wrapped in intimacy and connection, there is something new there. There is a level of like just on a physiological level, getting the kind of hormone dump that it does release with in.
Speaker 3:Like you said, context is everything with this person who you are, who you love and are connected with. It actually does deepen the relationship in a way that you know few things in life can actually do that. And so there's a, I think, a strengthening that happens with sex when you, when you do it from a place of love and connection and safety, and I think there is, I think, on a physiological level, like it really does like help. Again, context is everything it does help, like when you have a lot of things going on. Certain people will respond differently, but I know for me it is this sense of like things are okay, like the world's going to be all right and it is just like a moment of just going, like reprieve. But it's when we feel connected that I can experience that afterwards, so I love that, yeah, I think.
Speaker 1:On a physiological level, we know that, like endorphins are released and oxytocin is released, and dopamine is released and serotonin, you know, and so like, all those chemicals are causing you, when you orgasm, to bond together. And so like, literally, when I am orgasming and when Lauren is doing the same thing, like it, it literally is creating a bond between us over and over and over again, where not only is she getting the deepest parts of me emotionally, but on a chemical level, I am bonding my life to hers and her life to mine, over and over and over, and we're having this incredible experience together. You know, our sexual relationship is one of the only things in my life that I don't share with anybody else. She is the only person that I target at that level of giving.
Speaker 2:I feel targeted. You sure it is a hunter Hunter.
Speaker 1:Listen, it is very much a target. Sometimes I'm like cool and like I mean we have had lots of conversations where you know Lauren will be in a different headspace than I am for I don't know, three or four or five days and maybe it's. Maybe we felt a little bit disconnected and I'll have to remind her. Like you're the only person on the planet that I can point my sexual affection and drive and hunt like I am on the hunt. You're the only person in this world that I get to do that with and I manage all. I use all of my mind, my strength, my willpower to deny what I want all day long and point it towards her.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because your sex drive is I think you've said this before is this? It's not, it's a directionless energy, 100% Part of us, being made in the image of God. Is we actually get the ability to point that intentionally, without letting it run our lives? The rest of the animal kingdom is with the next thing that is moving, you know, in my species. But even humans don't stick to that all the time. Oh my gosh. But we have the ability, more than anything else, to go oh, actually, I'm going to direct this one way, which actually is the hardest thing in the world, because it's really saying no to the infinite other ways that I could direct this. So it's, it's a, it's a beautiful gift, I think, to be able to say like you get this and you get this alone, and but that's also what makes it. One of the most frustrating thing is when I withhold for the infinite other possibilities and it's missing from this one thing. That is like the possibility. That's a painful experience.
Speaker 1:But when you start to think about what the act of sex requires in order for it to be life giving to both people, you start to really understand God's design around it, because it would be so different if her and I just wanted it the same. It's like like if we had $100,000 to spend in a day. It would be like, well no, none of us are really sacrificing. We just have tons of it and tons of money and we just want to go out and spend it in a day. It's like wow, it's only fun. But the fact that it is highly complicated in order for us to strategically come together over and over and over again and have this moment be life giving it has made me have to be very incredibly thoughtful of her.
Speaker 1:It puts me in a place where I'm serving. It puts me in a place where I'm not actually thinking about me. It was initiated by me thinking. It was initiated by my sex drive, which is why I love that men have sex drives, because if we didn't, we would be gone. We would be chasing something.
Speaker 1:honestly, my sex drive drives me back home, right, and it makes me now think about her. If I want to, if I really want to satisfy this drive in me now, I have to do things that are outside of my normal. I have to connect with her emotionally, I have to listen to her fears, I have to be patient, and vice versa. It's forcing her to do something that she probably wouldn't do outside of. Well, it would be so much easier for her to do the practical things, the dishes, whatever. I mean spreadsheets. Run a business, whatever women do. I don't want to just keep it to the dishes. I mean, those things are all accurate of Lord Run a business.
Speaker 3:you know all those.
Speaker 1:Take care of the kids, but our sex drive, our sex life, brings her and me back to this place, where now we are negotiating this, this relationship, on a level that is very intimate and very purposeful. It's the one area in our life where, if we do it right, it's like dancing we get better and better, and better and better, and you only know me and I only know you on this level. It's sacred.
Speaker 2:It is, and I think I hear a lot of like. There's a gripe amongst women when you talk about the husband does this and this and this so that he can get sex. And I think I wanted to spell that a tiny bit and kind of just go. You know, probably if Jason could shut off his sex drive at times, he would, because it would be. Sometimes it would be easier.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, if he just didn't need that, and so.
Speaker 2:I want to be like. Well, listen, like, if you have a hungry tummy, there's work that you do in order to satisfy the hunger feeling. You go to the kitchen, you make yourself something to eat. If you have enough money, you door dash. Whatever you do, you do something in order to satisfy the hunger that you have, and you could look at it like he's checking all these boxes just so that he can dot dot dot, have sex. But the truth is, is that any sort of any need that we have, it doesn't just come by us with no effort?
Speaker 2:Like most of the needs that we have. In maturity, we actually figure out a way to make sure that we're healthily meeting the needs that we have, and inside the context of marriage, I just think it's good it's. It is bears repeating that, like in the context of marriage, if things are working as they should, then there's this exchange that happens. That actually invites us into deeper connection. I think about what you said at the beginning. Baby said that, or maybe it was you, Aaron. One of you said that. No, it was Jenna. You said winning that connection. It is, oh my gosh, this is hilarious. I actually said it. Yes, I know.
Speaker 4:I think she's about to cover herself. It was brilliant.
Speaker 1:I'm not even making this out.
Speaker 4:I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:This is for comic relief.
Speaker 1:She's not even she isn't drank at all.
Speaker 2:Connection is is the main thing, and a good sex life is the overflow of a deep connection. Well, if you work that backwards, then you actually choosing to aim yourself at one and only one person ensures that you will be schooled in the area of learning how to have a great connection, because otherwise your sex life is going to be really painful. So the choice is get great at having a robust, connected, thriving marriage and then you can have a great sex life. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, and the fact that there's a reward for all that work is amazing on both ends. Right.
Speaker 4:It's funny because I think that was a big shift for me when I realized I was almost keeping score, like if he like, not on purpose, is subconscious, but like, did he do enough for me to do this for him? And actually just realizing how unhelpful that mindset was, like anything, anything, not even sex life in marriage, keeping the like. Has he done enough? Or have I done enough? I think even just applying for me, like, oh like, offensively, like being gracious in all areas, including this, where it's not, it doesn't have to be, even in order for both of us to show up as our best selves. But then the ironic catch me too is when one of you decides to just go after like showing up extravagantly as love, even if it's out doing the other person that it ups the standard.
Speaker 4:So then it goes from being self protection, self serving, to like how can we get better at love, how can I get better at loving you better? And it just changes the game. So I think that actually was a mindset shift in all of our marriage, probably like five or six years in. But that really changed our sex life too is realizing I'm not actually self protecting anymore because that hinders our connection and hinders our sex life.
Speaker 1:Absolutely yeah. One carries resentment with it and one has a vision.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's like.
Speaker 1:I'm resentful when I'm keeping score.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then, but I have a lot of vision when I'm going, hey, it doesn't matter. So there are some seasons when Lauren has pulled me up the hill and some seasons where I've carried her along. In this last season, you know, I got carried Lauren along. Her mom died, yeah, and the very beginning of our marriage, you know, she pulled me up a lot of hills and because we have a vision, right, we're going. Like this is where we're going, and I think the resentment, like when we get into the place where we're resentful and keeping score, which is so easy to do in marriage.
Speaker 2:Yeah right.
Speaker 1:It's like out of this place, of there's not enough you know my needs aren't gonna get met, and I'm not being taken care of. I don't know how to talk about it, that's often Love doesn't thrive there like at all. Yeah, it just becomes this graveyard of our dreams, right Of our marriage. It becomes this graveyard for us. So yeah, it's good. I think you know the natural question for married couples is what's permissible?
Speaker 4:right.
Speaker 1:And especially, I think, especially coming out of a background for a lot of men, where you're looking at pornography and then you get into this and not that women don't but and then you get into this place in the marriage bed, where you're like renewing your mind and or like for women at least it could go both ways where maybe you've never done anything at all and so you know what feels dirty to you may feel like first base to me, right, sure? Or it's like well, do we have to stay in missionary position forever? Because that's what healthy sex is right Like that's safe in Totally. So I think there's a lot of confusion around what is permissible and what's not permissible and how to navigate that, because I think unresolved expectations lead to a lot of pain inside of marriage and being able to really talk through what's permissible is I think a key for couples to thrive.
Speaker 3:So we would start, you know, to answer that question by saying that, like agreement and mutuality in sex is, I mean, that's kind of the heart behind sex. Is not that you come to receive, like I'm going there to get what I want, which is what pornography is, but to actually give, and so, as long as the mutuality there, where you both go like, hey, this seems exciting, this seems fun, because and we're both like headed towards this, this sounds great together. So we start there, like, if one person's like, eh, I don't know about that, then it's off the table. And I remember thinking for a long time there was a number. Obviously with porn there's, like you know, so many like quote unquote options. But asking Jenna about a couple of the things that I was like maybe we try this, and she wasn't. She's like, eh, I don't know about that. And I remember this, like is such a like.
Speaker 3:Now I can see kind of a demonic kind of experience that was happening inside of me, or at least influenced by it. Was this like I shouldn't have to give that up, like I shouldn't have this entitlement, and like it was so self-centered and so like focused on me, and that built resentment in me towards her, like if she could just fix all of her qualms with sex and she could heal from all of her. Whatever you know, then we'd be so much further along. This would be, this could actually be fun, we could actually enjoy this. But so that kind of came up in me when something was off the table. But I think that was a looking back is a really good opportunity to go oh, there's some things that need some healing in me, to go like, no, I deserve this, you know Cause you don't. But so I would say, as both people we've tried things.
Speaker 4:Oh, go ahead. I was gonna say, well, the interesting part for me, the first couple of years of marriage, of like what's permissible, I think. Sometimes I like to just think when I notice things are like repeat in my head, search, question them Like where did they come from? Is that a helpful belief or an unhelpful belief? So, like, while we'd be having sex, different things, I'd be like, oh, this is dirty, or oh, and I was like, oh, so I just kind of sat with it for a little bit.
Speaker 4:Rather than like taking it as truth and be like what else is true, like what else is going on inside of me, I'm like, well, actually I haven't had much sexual experience, so I'm wondering if, instead of dirty, unknown is that could that be like, maybe Like reframing it yeah, yeah like and then, actually being honest with myself I was not trying to strong arm myself into being okay with it and I didn't actually feel that pressure from Erin but internally, like, if you have no experience in this, then how do you know, like, where is your like, where is this coming from? And then just like, then there's some things that as I went on that journey of like I wonder if I'm just not comfortable, like because of not having a lot of experience in general, and then kind of I actually stopped thinking this is dirty because I realized that is unhelpful and thinking about our sexual connection anyways. So, more of like do I feel comfortable? Do I feel safe?
Speaker 4:Was like a question that actually bred more like intimacy than I think like shaming things too. So it just was helpful to me, like, oh actually, a lot of my experience, when I started looking at the factors rather than just what I felt to be true, was like, oh actually, like I think I just I get to grow in this because I don't really know what this is like very much.
Speaker 3:And then yeah, I was gonna. I think what you you hit on a good point, like taking some of the judgmental like this is or this isn't, and more going like hey, what's what am I experiencing right now? The curiosity behind that is really good.
Speaker 4:Even cause. Like you took the judgment out of like judgment towards me, but still like should or shouldn't. And that's kind of a true narrative in our marriage where, like, maybe he'll do blame more and I do yeah, you're right, it's by fault.
Speaker 3:I do self shame.
Speaker 3:So like having that pattern show up in our sex life wasn't surprising, but actually noticing that too Like interesting, then you know, then you can go okay, well, if both people, if nothing's like inherently bad, and if both people agree, then can things like porn be introduced, can you know? And you you can add a bunch of different options there. But I was, as I was thinking about this kind of question, I think you know you could ask like, hey, if everyone at a party, at a birthday party, agrees on something like we're all gonna jump in a bouncy house, that's gonna be great. You're like, okay, everyone agrees, let's do this. But if everyone's like, let's do heroin together, there are things that, regardless of mutuality, are going to hurt you individually. And so I for me, like I have a strong opinion about porn, because of the industry, because of the content, because of what it does and how it shapes the mind Of all the men you work with.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, I mean I've been.
Speaker 3:I've been just like swimming in the sewage of people's experiences, so I personally would say yeah, if you both agree like there's, that would fit this criteria. However, I don't bring stuff into our life period that I know is damaging to me or her.
Speaker 4:So you're saying it just wouldn't be helpful, doesn't actually? Matter if you both agree, the long term.
Speaker 3:Yeah, this is definitely, this is definitely. I feel strong about that.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I would say the more interesting. To get back to the early part of our marriage where I didn't orgasm for a long time, we actually we started to try. We tried vibrators, which is interesting. At first I think some of the narrative I felt was like oh, that's inappropriate or like outside of God's intent, like I probably made some religious mindset maybe heard some of it we heard, definitely heard people go.
Speaker 3:If it didn't, if it wasn't in the garden, then you don't need it, yeah.
Speaker 4:Or some of that mindset. But I guess Lube would be out as well.
Speaker 3:So which, thank you, jesus, we get that.
Speaker 1:Good point, but the point Well, there are probably coconuts in the garden.
Speaker 4:But they had to work really hard to help.
Speaker 2:that help Nothing's going to happen for a moment.
Speaker 1:And make coconut oil.
Speaker 4:But for us, what we found is we? Actually that was one of the big helpful points in me with my ADHD and having a really hard time focusing was using a vibrator. But early in, I think, when we were deciding whether or not we were going to try it, we just were like what are we? What are the parameters that would keep it in a spot that feels safe and helpful for our connection. And that was just our basic ones.
Speaker 4:No one uses it individually. We don't use it for masturbation, so it's only in the context of when we're having sex, and then Aaron use it. So just things that make it feel like a tool for our connection versus, honestly, someone's individual pleasure to me. So I think I normally feel a little hesitation saying it, because I think a lot of times people think of them as individual pleasures or like I don't need you to get my needs met. But it's actually not at all how we use it. And it's been so helpful.
Speaker 4:It was a game changer for us being able to equally experience what an orgasm feels like is like I could get teary. It feels like that was one of the major shifts and me enjoying sex more, even if I don't have the same natural drive that he had.
Speaker 3:She actually gets something out of it for the first time. It always felt like we would show up to this dinner and I'd be getting served steak and she'd be eating tuna and crackers.
Speaker 4:Or just drinking water, or drinking water yeah.
Speaker 3:Enduring.
Speaker 1:Yeah, enduring Fast way.
Speaker 3:She was happy to. She said well, I want to meet your needs, I want to take care of you. It's sad for me, even though, yes, I get an orgasm, so I get the dopamine dump, but I'm sitting there knowing I'm eating steak in front of you. And so this was the first chance that she could taste the steak and I go it's great right, and she's like it's so good.
Speaker 4:I'm thinking of more things I would say permissible. I know that some couples do hot pictures to each other and we've tried it once or twice, but we have almost had them accidentally screencasted. Actually literally in a Bethel staff meeting and it connects my photo. I was like wha-ha. So then, very few times does it feel worth. I'm like because then when you delete it and it's like, how did it end up in my iCloud when it was deleted over here? So I'm like ha ha. So maybe before those.
Speaker 3:You have to be super intentional with that.
Speaker 4:So I would say it's not permissible. But how uncomfortable I feel with the unknown of accidentally slipping out somewhere is not something we do attend. What about you guys? Are there anything that you would say?
Speaker 2:That's a good question. Jason was very at the beginning of our marriage. I don't know if it was because of just sensitivity to well, I mean, jason walked out of a porn addiction when he was a teenager, so there's a lot of drive to protect the purity of sex in marriages. So there wasn't a lot of experimenting that happened in the beginning and a lot of that. I mean. I don't know if you'd agree, but I felt like me being more of the one. That's kind of like. I don't know, you tell me Like.
Speaker 2:I had never had sex before. I wasn't sure. I was kind of going off of like what he said was good and normal.
Speaker 1:Man, I should have said a different bar. This is normal.
Speaker 3:But we can start down here.
Speaker 2:And he actually had a really a really tight like. So like masturbation, or parameters, tight parameters on like what was actually helpful for us and what was okay for us.
Speaker 2:I feel like, as we've grown in our intimacy and in our trust with one another and even in our own understanding, probably, of what we need and how this really works for us, I feel like things have relaxed a bit In regards to. I mean, I would basically agree with your definition, erin. It comes down to think what is good for the both of you, and there isn't a long list of off limits things right.
Speaker 2:Like there's not a lot of things that are off limits if you want to, I think for me another like maybe it seems like a no brainer, but even porn fits into this category for me is like nobody else gets to be involved.
Speaker 2:No other person gets to be involved in our sex life, Whether they're on a screen or whether they're in a memory that I have, or whether they are some person that literally is on the street that I invite into my space Like that. We're not doing that. Nobody else gets to be a part of this. The Bible is very clear to me about this being between a man and his wife and that is all. And so I think that's probably where my parameters lie. Those are my boundaries.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would say we've expanded a decent amount. Like I was, I struggled a lot for a very long time with masturbation and it was to the point where I couldn't stop.
Speaker 2:When he was a teenager.
Speaker 1:I was a teenager and so you know for a lot. Even when in my divorce I didn't masturbate at all, after being sexually active for 10 years, I just went no, not doing that.
Speaker 2:He has a pretty addictive personality, and so he and he has an incredible amount of self control.
Speaker 1:But he puts up like high safeguards.
Speaker 2:He puts up really high safeguards.
Speaker 4:Your addictive personality. I'm instantly thinking to the hours time flies in your garage where like. I come over and hang out and you're still in the garage by J-Sid, like four hours later.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so I would say that that's changed, you know, like our ability to, because you don't have to have intercourse every single time. But there's lots of different ways to have an incredible sexual experience. And even when she's gone, in a way like that's what FaceTime's for, and at least for us, like that's help, we can still have our but that was off limits for us for a long time we did not do that for a really long time.
Speaker 2:I would really say that it's been in progression, with trust for each other and trust for ourselves.
Speaker 3:It's like I think Jay had to grow in trusting himself. Yeah, yeah, that's good In some of those areas where he knew he's prone to addiction.
Speaker 2:He knows that he has high standards in this area for himself. So I think it was like what does it look like to protect the core values in the context of sex and marriage? And I think over time, you just learn, yeah, that we can't. We do trust ourselves.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, what I've also seen too in just in men is like there's this insatiable, never satisfied thing, right, that like if I do this then I have to do this, and if I do this then I have to do this. And so I just know in me I didn't want to open a door that I had a hard time closing. Sure, yeah, and so that was like we would try. I remember just trying something and just seeing, like a couple of months, like what did that? What happened? What did that bear? Was that okay? Did that hurt our connection or help our connection? Did I feel convicted about it? Because, at the end of the day, like the Bible says that the marriage bet is undefiable, right, like as long as you're not forcing yourself on your wife bringing in pornography you know, when there's not less involved.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like there's a lot of things that we're able to do, but not everything's like beneficial.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And so being able to and that's gonna be really different for different couples, really really different. You know, a man or a woman who's experienced abuse may have a much harder or tighter tolerances than someone who never has before. And so to me, the main thing and the fun thing about this is we get to go on a journey of talking. It forces us to talk, it forces us to work out what really works and what doesn't work and what do we both feel good with.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like our repertoire had to expand when we started having babies because all of a sudden I just remember that's kind of where we started to get a little bit more creative For years and years, like we were trying to have babies forever and that didn't work. So that brought another element for us of like pain inside of sex, like it's fun to have sex when you're trying to have a baby, except for when it takes one, two three, four five, six, seven it's just like so long that that actually became really painful.
Speaker 2:Then when we did get pregnant. That was kind of the first time where I was like, oh actually, if we're gonna maintain a healthy or work on having a healthy sex life while I'm pregnant and having babies, then we're gonna need to change things up a little bit, because that's just a big initiation into the reality that your sex life in marriage changes so much over time and through different seasons of marriage.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's so true. There's like a shift that happens seasonally, actually, even just logistic. Some of the biggest shifts for us have been logistically. Like I think I'm a habit coach, I think of them in terms of a habit. So I think of like habits around sex that have shifted a lot, and just one is daytime sex where.
Speaker 4:I realize that a lot of the pain because it feels sad if you want sex and I don't like that, just rejection is painful. I think as we've gotten healthier it's less dramatic, more than it used to be, but I realize a lot of the pain was. Just like I'm useless after 8 pm.
Speaker 3:Laura can attest I fall asleep while standing up, sometimes In the middle of small groups.
Speaker 4:So having intimate sex. That means so much and your partner falls asleep and then like is not connecting or does not give good feedback. So then it was this can we actually try for like I think we did when I like test drive habits. I'm like can we try for two to three months and see what grows, cause a lot of times people assume they know what it's gonna produce, but like we actually have to do it long enough to get data, versus two or three times and there's too many variables. So we did it. We're like can we try doing daytime sex so that obviously usually means weekends for a while, to see if that just eliminates some of the disconnect that we're experiencing? And it has been such a game changer.
Speaker 3:So that was one. Just yeah, Jen, I didn't fall asleep once during daytime sex.
Speaker 4:Also just a bit of maybe like dread is too strong of a word, but like resistance or like one more thing to do before I get to go to sleep.
Speaker 3:Yes, when she's so tired.
Speaker 4:It changes. I'm like oh, actually I don't feel that I don't have resistance against sex, I have a resistance about not going to sleep you know. So that was huge for me, and tangling that I think, a lot of times, just noticing what's logistics that could be changed versus our sexual connection.
Speaker 2:Roblox to connection? Yes, what robots to connection can you remove?
Speaker 4:So then the other thing was actually so then we're like, okay, we're just gonna have sex during the weekend, and then realizing if we didn't nail down a time it would be a hope. And then I'm thinking Sunday afternoon, but he's not sure if it's gonna happen, and it's anxiety of like I was thinking.
Speaker 1:Saturday at 10 am. Well then, he's following you around.
Speaker 4:Oh, 100%. So then it was like oh, and then two of you have busyness like it's just sadness that built in and we're like, oh, what if we actually agree Thursday or Friday on when we're gonna have sex? So it's a shared agreed upon and it's not like the disappointment.
Speaker 4:Yes so that solved that. And then, of course, it's not this hard contract but an awareness if the kids are or something's going to ride where 30 minutes or an hour, we both know that we're working towards the same goal, versus like there'd be so many misses that we're like I just thought we were present at the playground and Erin's like I was waiting for you to wrap it up. I didn't wanna be at the playground. And you're like oh, that's so easy. That's not actually about our sexual connection, that's just logistics. And then for me, another thing is realizing that our friend Michelle is so great about, realize it's she's almost spun it on its head of like you know, this motivates your husband, so, in a beautiful way, use it to motivate the things that like to help, like be proactive with it, not like was like rather than like subject to it.
Speaker 2:That was my favorite.
Speaker 4:She's so good about. So then I realized that earlier in the weekend we had sex the different man that I got for the rest of this, so like hey, do you wanna? Go swim at the YMCA before sex Is like are you kidding? But after sex, sure, and I'm like, oh my gosh is it really this simple?
Speaker 4:So for us, like earlier on day planning about it, I was trying to think, oh, another thing is most of the time like going from elaborate foreplay to if we don't feel super connected. Most of the time our connection looks like naked. Talking about our weeks Cause he gets my favorite way to communicate.
Speaker 4:Yeah, totally, and it's my favorite like oh, we all actually have a ton of time to do both. So like it's not you win or I win with connection, we actually both feel a little more connected before we like go into like more versus like jumping into foreplay when I feel no connection. So I would say that's probably. Do you have any other ones that you think?
Speaker 3:No those ones were great, those have been game changers, that's right.
Speaker 4:That's so helpful and so and it's funny cause I might have it class we just had this relationship week and I was like plan sex and a lot of people instantly, because I think of this Hollywood narrative of like you being overwhelmed with desire so you can't schedule that, cause it's the healthiest if it's bubbling up organic. But the idea for us it's like it's not limited to we can only have sex, then Anything else feels like you're like a cherry on top.
Speaker 4:So then I feel like a stellar wife, even if it was a quickie and like at some point. So it's actually really changed, been so helpful. That's great.
Speaker 2:Those are great guys. Those are great, Really great tips. Anything you wanna add.
Speaker 1:I just think over time yeah, yeah, you know, you have babies, and babies is a complete game changer to a woman's body. She doesn't feel good and so, like navigating sex while first being pregnant. You know, the first trimester for a lot of women is tough and you have to talk about that stuff because if you don't talk about it somebody's gonna be resentful. And if I'm trying to have sex with you and you're like, do you not see, I just threw up A guy could probably not care Because a guy could be sick, and he's like I'm still good, it's on the table.
Speaker 2:Great, yeah, yeah, and so he's like I'll just put a t-shirt over my face. I've got strep throat, just like. How's your way with?
Speaker 1:me Lauren.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's true, I will. Oh my gosh, you're so funny.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and there's just all kinds of funny yeah funny things in my mind, but that breeds a lot of resentment. But after Lauren had ED we couldn't have intercourse for a year straight I had so much pain. Oh my gosh, I had a lot of scar tissue from tearing.
Speaker 4:Did you?
Speaker 2:guys see a specialist. Well, it took me a while, yeah, I went around, I did a few things, Like I worked pretty hard at it for the year. Well, I'll say this unfortunately and this is for any women listening I waited too long, Like I actually just thought I was healing because I'd never had a baby before. And I had torn pretty bad. So I was like well, yeah, I mean, a whole baby came out of here. Probably ravaged, it's probably just absolutely she crawled away.
Speaker 1:I was like we broke it.
Speaker 2:I'm like well, make sense to me. I don't understand how something that big can come out of a hole that small. And the truth is is I just went too long Without taking care of it. I thought it was normal yeah totally, and I just didn't realize.
Speaker 2:And so it took me like six months to go. Wait a second. This is actually taking longer than it should or could. So then I started doing. I did some pelvic floor physical therapy and I did. What actually ended up helping a ton was I did some supplements to help with my. A lot of the trouble was my hormone levels. Didn't like get back to normal as quickly as they could ever should have Hormones helped a lot, I think it's so practical.
Speaker 4:Cause we don't have a friend that you're talking about these things as honestly not realizing that physical therapy and then hormones could solve.
Speaker 1:Well, like a woman's body is super complicated, like you need the healthy bacteria inside there that like helps to yeah.
Speaker 2:So the part of the issue with my hormones not replenishing was that I didn't actually have. It's so crazy how it's all connected. I didn't have enough of the healthy flora in order to lubricate naturally the right way. And so the scar tissue was just not, it was just really painful.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so, anyways, it all works together, all this, to say the pelvic floor, physical therapy and helping get my hormones back on track things.
Speaker 1:But a lot of people go like man, how did you do that, jay and I'm like we talked about it. And we were still both engaged and it was a really cool Like. Actually that's part of what expanded us into you know different things.
Speaker 2:because now, like we open to things other than that's not an option.
Speaker 3:Now intercourse is not an option. Yeah, and of course there's an option.
Speaker 1:And actually, like you, can have a really cool sex life.
Speaker 3:I remember us going months without intercourse and I only remembered it upon reflection, because our sex life was amazing. And then I was like wait, we didn't actually have intercourse during this like three month period. Well, I didn't even know. Personally I didn't even notice because it was great anyways.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it changes. You know it changes from when you're first married to when you've been married a long time and mostly, I think, the like when you're really pregnant too and you just physically can't do what you used to do. So you got to get really crazy.
Speaker 4:You can't find the holes. Sometimes You're like there's so much belly I don't even know what's happening.
Speaker 1:It's true, you know, and like we can no longer do missionary position anymore. I can't access. So you know that changes, it changes everything, and so.
Speaker 4:I was going to say, can I say one other shift? That we had seasonally is Aaron and I think, like we hear, this kind of common with couples is the husband realizes that outside of sex they don't actually know how to get needs met Like they only know almost, like it's like one tool for any needs like sexual, will meet the need.
Speaker 3:Regulate emotionally, feel like I'm not alone. Vulnerability.
Speaker 4:So it's like they're trying. It's like one tool versus the woman has a few tools, so then they're over wanting to overuse it to write in ways that they should have other tools. So the helpful part is I think I saw we see a lot of marriages get breakthrough when the husband's like oh, it's not actually you, I should have more tools.
Speaker 4:Like this, isn't the one stop shop for all my needs. This is for my sexual needs, yes, but for a regulation for connect like friendship, connection like a lot of guys are like. Oh, I'm actually lonely in general cause I don't know how to have a deep relationship with dudes. You know, but I'm trying to have more sex to fix the part that sex is never going to fix you know.
Speaker 4:So that's been huge for like and then the woman not realizing what she like, the pressure it's never enough. Like, actually, even just that's the difference of a difference of appetite is actually like oh, you're just using one tool where I have a few tools to get different needs met.
Speaker 2:That is really profound, actually, and it does remind me I mean, I was really thinking about how, in general, I think that the drive to make sure that your marriage and that your emotional world is healthy and thriving is so important, because when I think about getting into those seasonal hard spots of like, I don't know, we're having babies, or work is really stressful, or you know some people who have to travel for work, or they do just like wild life circumstances come about and I think that when you have a really thriving connection inside of your marriage you can go.
Speaker 3:sometimes you can actually afford less sexual connection than you would prefer You've got bandwidth, you have bandwidth, you have margin, you have like money in the bank. So to speak.
Speaker 2:Like when your connection is really strong. You have things to pull from when sex isn't an option.
Speaker 3:Because my gosh like.
Speaker 2:I mean he had a knee surgery last two years ago.
Speaker 1:It wouldn't have stopped me.
Speaker 2:And well, I mean it did for a minute like you were peeing in a bottle, you didn't get out of bed Like it was really bad, but I think about people who go through wild circumstances. All it does for me is go okay, like I cannot afford in marriage. The best thing I could do for my sex life actually is to just continually aim myself at building a really strong connection with Jay across the board. Yeah, yeah, that's so good Like really strong emotional relational connection inside of marriage is the absolute most important thing.
Speaker 1:That's it, Guys y'all are awesome for coming in.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love it, so open.
Speaker 2:This episode is fire.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's great.
Speaker 2:This is a great conversation.
Speaker 1:It is.
Speaker 2:Guys, listeners, I just challenge you get this episode out, spread it far and wide. People need to know these things. Yeah, it's awesome, it's an important conversation. Listen y'all.
Speaker 1:If you're on that marriage journey, if you're married and you're trucking down that road, we want to partner with you. We wanna help you grow a strong, healthy marriage. We have our marriage intensive. That's out, it's going to launch when, babe.
Speaker 2:Well, registration is open. The first date of the intensive is April 16th, and so, yeah, hop over to Jason and laurenvalatincom for registration information.
Speaker 1:We hope that you all love this and have loved this little series that we're doing on sex and marriage. Stay tuned for next week's episode. We're gonna dive deeper and just unpack more, but if you are loving it, please share it. Subscribe to our podcast, leave a comment. That helps us so much. It really helps us spread the word and it helps the algorithms as well. Otherwise if you're married, go have that good sex.
Speaker 4:Oh, my gosh In the day.
Speaker 2:Yes. On the calendar yes.
Speaker 1:All right, y'all have a great week. We'll see you next week. Bye, bye. Íamos abanco de Opus um ETC.