Parent Busters
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Parent Busters
Unraveling Autumn, Without Pumpkin Spice (Busting Back Episode)
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Ready for an autumn adventure? In this BUSTING BACK Parent Busters podcast episode, we're taking a vibrant journey through the science, mythology and folklore of fall.
Prepare to be spellbound as we decode the enigma of leaf color change, frostproof evergreens, and the reasons behind the customary shedding of leaves by perennial trees.
We also unmask the role of chlorophyll and photosynthesis in the survival of trees, and let's not forget a chat about Conkers, the popular fall game.
Ever wondered about the ancient stories spun around the changing seasons?
Discover the divine dance between nature and mythology because we're stepping back in time to Greece to uncover the mythological drama starring the Hora and Persephone.
Leaf Science: We also explore the intriguing mystery of why some trees lose their leaves starting from the top.
Brace yourself for an enchanting walk through the woods of folklore and superstitions associated with fall leaves.
Hear the haunting Huron legend about the celestial clash between a bear and a deer that affects the foliage below. Learn about the time-honored beliefs that predict harsh winters from bright autumn leaves and bring good luck to those who catch a falling leaf.
Grab a warm cup of cocoa (oh, ok, or a pumpkin spice latte), make yourself comfortable, and listen along as we embark on this fun journey through the captivating world of fall science and fun for fall y'all!
Grab your free Buster Deduction sheet for kids!
Check out how your can support our LISTEN FOR CAUSE to help us give back to others!
*All resources and references used in researching this podcast episode are found on the corresponding episode post on ParentBusters.com.
Exploring Fall Fun and Leaf Science
Speaker 1Hey Ella. Yes, how do leaves take a road trip? How, with autumn mobiles? Guess what we're talking about today.
Speaker 2All right, I'm guessing something around autumn and or leaves we're talking about all things fall y'all no.
Speaker 1Why southern no?
Speaker 2It's like you do one episode with southern and then you just can't stop Amen. Well, if you don't know, welcome to Parent Busters, a fun podcast where parents and kids can learn together and listen to horrible jokes. I'm Ella. I'm here with my mom Jackie.
Speaker 1Maybe we should rethink the part where we say a fun podcast where parents and kids can learn together. Wow.
Speaker 2It depends. Do you like terrible puns and listening to weird stories for half of the episode?
Speaker 1And yeah, like it depends on your answer for that. I think that's fun. I think it's amusing. It's very yeah, we're going to. We thought we'd tackle some fall fun.
Speaker 2I'm ready to fall into it.
Speaker 1You falling apart over there Always. Let's do a two to some.
Speaker 2Okay.
Speaker 1Here we go, please hold for a very important message. Number one evergreen trees are frostproof, ooh. Number two chloroform helps determine leaf color, oh. And number three Conkers is a popular fall game. Say what? Oh? Repeat that last one Conkers is a popular fall game, okay.
Speaker 2All right.
Speaker 1You know what I thought. I mean, this is kind of one of my favorite parts when we do things, which is and I know I keep saying it, but the folklore.
Speaker 1So, you want to talk about, like the folklore, maybe start with the science behind it. I guess, yes, like why do seasons change? Why is it called fall, all of that stuff? Well, why don't you start out? Okay, so seasons change because the tilt of the earth on the earth's axis. So, for example, in the summer for us, which is in the Northern Hemisphere, we're more toward the sun and it makes the days longer and the temperatures grow warmer, while the opposite is happening in the Southern Hemisphere, where they start to get cold.
Speaker 1Yeah, it's tilted more away from the sun, so as the earth continues around the sun, the days get shorter. In the Northern Hemisphere that makes the tree lose their leaves because of lack of sunlight. I mean, that's when you see like gardens start to die away and things like that, and people start to celebrate harvest this time of year because it's getting colder and your harvest just happened.
Speaker 2You most likely just got all your crops out. You're ready to eat your pumpkin and your wheat, or whatever.
Speaker 1Yeah, harvested back in the day and today back in my day, which is now Right. And then people. That was the time that people put away all of their food that they were going to eat over the winter.
Speaker 2It was like I did some canning, right. Canning is great, right. Speaking of leaves, do you know why leaves are green? Oh, leave me alone. Do you know why leaves are green? Not chloroform? It's not chloroform. I would be scared if it was chloroform.
Speaker 1What is it instead of chloroform?
Speaker 2It is because of chlorophyll.
Speaker 1Yes, leaves are Get kind of their greenish color from chlorophyll, but they also have other colors. Leaves aren't just green, they're also yellow, they're also red. Do you know what makes the yellowish color?
Speaker 2Where is that? I do have carotenoids, carotenoids.
Speaker 1Carotenoids and also anthocyanin, which is the red part.
Speaker 2Exactly. And sometimes a little bit purpley.
Speaker 1Which I think we can all agree is fariolos.
Speaker 2So why do leaves drop Do?
Speaker 1you know. Well, can I tell you something else about anthocyanin, which is the reddish?
Speaker 2Yes, and not chloroform, not chloroform.
Speaker 1We don't talk about that. Anthocyanin is at a high during fall, did you know that? So that makes sense, because you see more reddish.
Speaker 2Red, purpley, yellow, orange.
Speaker 1Right, it's present at other times throughout the year. It's not in the spotlight.
Speaker 2No.
Speaker 1Poor anthocyanin.
Speaker 2I think it's time to shine and then it dies, but they sprout red also in the spring, before turning green.
Speaker 1Did you know that?
Speaker 2Really. Oh yeah, I've seen that I shouldn't be shy. Sorry I interrupted you. It's OK. I interrupted you interrupting me, so you know.
Speaker 1Is it because this episode is leafing you feeling excited Fail? No, that was bad. Good job, I think. If you don't like sappy puns you better leaf right now.
Speaker 2I think you just really need to start branching out more with your puns, Because it's starting to make like we need to get to the root of the problem.
Speaker 1Do you have anything to fall back on besides that joke?
Speaker 2Wow, I'd rather drop dead.
Speaker 1He wanted one autumn leaf say to the other no-transcript. I'm falling for you, ah.
Speaker 2Okay, um, so anyway, wow. Another thing about chlorophyll is it's necessary for photosynthesis, which is the process where plants convert sunlight into energy to help them grow. Cool yeah, dude, write it down. Kids, write that down, you'll need that in school or just everyday understanding of life, exactly. So an interesting thing about chlorophyll is it's the during fall and when it starts to get cold for perennial trees which I believe are trees that drop their leaves. Right, they start to lose chlorophyll and while parts of the tree, like the branches and the buds, can survive, this, leaves can't. So once it starts getting cold, the leaves start losing their chlorophyll and then set or replaced by different pigments, like we just talked about. Get the sign in, exactly, and then they drop because if not, the tree will die. It's like a protection system. So dropping the leaves and creating those pretty colors actually protects the tree and lets it come back in the spring.
Speaker 1Hey, do you know why we were talking about this the other day? Because it was happening in our yard a couple of weeks ago. Do you know why some trees lose their leaves at the top first? Oh, no See, while you see like the top of the branches are completely bare and then they're still like a beautiful bushy tree.
Speaker 2It's like they're wearing pants still, they're like.
Speaker 1I just took my hat off.
Speaker 2Oh yeah, because like the bottom would be pants, so that's like a shirt or a hat. Pops. Let's move on from a tree tree shirt dynamic.
Greek Mythology and the Changing Seasons
Speaker 1So they lose. Some trees lose their leaves at the top and retain the ones like around the middle and toward the bottom, because a lack of moisture in the soil prevents the trees from getting nutrients. As you know, time goes on so like as it starts to become fall, there's less, there's less moisture in the soil and it prevents it from spreading the nutrients up, and the leaves on the upper branches lose that moisture first.
Speaker 2So as it's harder to get those nutrients up higher when there's less of them.
Speaker 1That makes a lot of sense because they're furthest from the roots of the tree. Yeah, so the ones toward the bottom are still getting the moisture from the roots, but since there's less moisture in the soil, the ones at the top I'm so sorry, leaves at the top. Hey, do you want to do some mythology? Yes, of course always.
Speaker 2So let's start off with some Greek mythology, because Greek mythology relates to everything.
Speaker 1I think we can just put in a standard Greek mythology clause.
Speaker 2Exactly so. Greek mythology around fall and the changing of seasons is, of course, a little confusing, so stick with me as I try to explain it.
Speaker 1I feel like we covered a little bit of this in the. Didn't we cover like Demeter and Persephone in? We were talking about maybe the pumpkin episode.
Speaker 2I know we did talk about some like colored, like pigments in the pumpkin episode, so if you want to hear more about these types of things, check out the pumpkin episode. They're very much related, right, exactly so. In Greco-Roman mythology, a collection of goddesses called the Hora or Hora, which translate to the hours, control things in the natural order, like time, seasons, and such the Hora are thought to be the children of the god Zeus, thunder and the tightness Themis. Three of them were the sisters Thalo, the goddess of spring flowers, oxo, the goddess of summer fruits, and Carpo, the goddess of fall, and these sisters guarded the way to Mount Olympus.
Speaker 1I think we can all agree that Carpo got the short end of the naming stick in that one.
Speaker 2I know right, like whenever I was doing research, it was like spring flowers, summer fruits and fall and Carpo.
Speaker 1Sorry, carpo, I love you though Autumn and harvest we love it.
Speaker 2I can see Carpo being teased like hey, you sound like the fish, it's like, no, I'm not. I swear.
Speaker 1It's not a fish, it's autumn. It's autumn, guys, please. Did you know? One of the reasons that people thought that the seasons were controlled by goddesses is because we didn't understand people didn't understand science back then. No, we didn't have the scientific research or the technology that we have today, obviously, but that's one of the reasons that they thought things were ruled by or controlled by, goddesses, goddesses and gods. Exactly, I almost said God-eye.
Speaker 2God-eye. Oh, yes, god-eye, my favorite. Exactly when you don't understand how something works and you're not able to look it up or ask someone who knows, then what do you do? You make your own conclusion, right.
Speaker 1From now on, anything that I don't understand, it's gonna be because of Carpo. Wow, just.
Speaker 2Carpo. Carpo is now like your official favorite Greek goddess.
Speaker 1Yes, she is now Exactly.
Speaker 2So Carpo, which her name also means fruiting, hmm, which?
Speaker 1again fruiting.
Speaker 2Yeah, I could see.
Speaker 1I agree, but I think they could have done a little better with the naming.
Speaker 2Seriously I feel bad. Okay, carpo, oh honey, carpo, we feel. Ya, I'm sorry, could have actually, so this actually fixes a little bit. Could have been another title for Demeter, oh so.
Speaker 1Carpo and Demeter might be the same person. Might be the same goddess.
Speaker 2Yes, based on some evidence I don't know. And Demeter is the goddess of harvest and the earth's fruits, so you know correlation, and all together they were called the Hore. The Hore. Yes, the uh Carpalation Correlation. No, I tried, not bad.
Speaker 1So let's sweat the fall stuff over there.
Speaker 2It's also said that the seasons, like the seasonal shift, is caused by Persephone, who is the daughter of Demeter, so it's still connected to Demeter Mm-hmm. And she is the queen of the underworld and it's said it's caused when she makes the journey from the underworld with her husband Hades.
Speaker 1No, that's because she was abducted by Hades, so she got kidnapped by Hades.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1And then-.
Speaker 2There's also evidence that it's mixed. It could be she got abducted or she's happily married to him.
Speaker 1Say what? How could you? It's Hades. How could you be happily married to that?
Speaker 2Yeah. So in my heart it's like, oh, they're just bitchilling.
Speaker 1It's when she got abducted by him and her mom. So Persephone, Hades took Persephone. We talked about this a little bit on another episode? Yeah, I think so we did, and then Hades took her away. So Demeter-.
Speaker 2It was all sad and she was like, oh Ayo, I'm not gonna tend the crops anymore because I'm depressed Nothing's gonna bloom.
Speaker 1It's gonna suck here until you bring back my daughter Do you hear me.
Speaker 2And then Persephone, after Hades, feeding her food, which meant she had to stay there. She ate six pomegranate seeds, so she had to stay there for six months of the year. What?
Speaker 1Yeah, you've had enough to eat Persephone. You had six pomegranate seeds.
Speaker 2So for six months of the year she goes back with her mother and that's when everything's blooming and blossoming, so spring and summer, and then when she goes, back Because Demeter was so happy that she came back Because Demeter's like Ayo, you're back, let's hang and cause flowers.
Speaker 1Which I think makes perfect sense. That's what happens when I'm happy.
Speaker 2With me.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2Yes, yeah. And then when she goes back to Underworld, it's like here comes depression again, so everything's kind of dead. She stops tending the soil and that's when we start getting fall and winter.
Speaker 1Did you know that the whore so the group referred to as the whore later became known as the goddesses of order and justice? Wow, that's a dope title. I know that's so cool. So even though this is what they believed in ancient Greece. It's weird because as early as the third century, there was a Greek astronomer that had already proposed that the earth and other planets revolved around the sun. They used to believe it the other way.
Speaker 2I know, and then that was such an unpopular thing they're like so Most people were like oh, that's weird, let's just believe the worlds don't revolve around us, hold up, let's just believe in Carpo.
Speaker 1We don't want to Like so. Even though there was already some studying from Greek astronomers that proved that it wasn't the goddess theory, people still didn't believe it. It wasn't until the 16th century, wow, that people started listening to another scientist and then they were all like, oh hey, that dude Copernicus might be on to something. And then they started realizing, good old Copernicus, yeah, the changes in there like oh wait, see a Carpo, your name wasn't dope anyway.
Speaker 2And then Carpo was still sad because Persephone.
Speaker 1And then Carpo was still amazing but worried about her name, and then I think she changed it to Beth, to Beth Beth, which I think we can all agree, is a great name, it's a fantastic name.
Speaker 2So but the job.
Speaker 1You can, hey kids. When you're writing your research paper, you can reference us.
Speaker 2I don't support false information.
Speaker 1Especially that part about Carpo changing her name to Beth. Write that in your paper.
Speaker 2No no, don't do it.
Speaker 1You know another thing, though there's a lot of like mythology and folklore surrounded by native tribes. Yes, for the fall, in North American tribes, as with most people in North America, autumn is the traditional harvest time and it's also considered the time of change, but it's also in the Eastern tribes. In the East Coast tribes, it was associated with a corn goddess.
Speaker 2Really.
Speaker 1And Pueblo Indians and then some California tribes like the Hoopa. They hold special autumn dances for the harvest that sound.
Speaker 2I would love to see that.
Speaker 1Yeah, that would be really cool. We were going to attend like an in a summer native dance here.
Speaker 2Remember when I ended up being sick, we did something, forever going like Texas.
Speaker 1Yeah, yes, that was really amazing. Yeah, if you look for, one of the things that I do is I follow I'm in a couple of like private Facebook groups for native tribes just because I wanted to learn more. If you go, join them, they're very welcoming and if I remember, I'll put what Facebook groups I joined just to learn more. But they talk a lot about the different what's happening at during different times of the season, so it's kind of a cool learning experience also.
Speaker 2Yeah, and a lot of native legends that I found had to do with hunting a bear in some sort of way. Oh no, it's a little bit of a warning because it's going to talk about hunting a bear. So yeah, In a Fox tribe legend long ago in early winter, three men and one of the guys small dogs named Holdtite I just love that was a carpo, Not Carpo named.
Speaker 1Holdtite. The next dog is going to be named Carpo Carpo. Carco. Carco Carco Car company Start over In a Fox tribe legend.
Speaker 2Long ago, in early winter, three men and one of the guys small dogs named Holdtite, which I love that was such an important detail that they had to include the dog I love it too they went hunting. Then they came across this bear's cave and they went in and it was like Ayo, drive it out so we can hunt this bear. And they took chase after they drove it out of the cave. They chased them all over the place until they realized they were in the sky Say what? And they were like okay, it's too far to go back, we're going to try.
Speaker 1We're just going to hang in the sky.
Speaker 2We're just going to hang in the sky. It's too far to go back.
Speaker 1That's what I feel like when I'm hanging in the sky. As you do on Saturdays, whatever, when I'm looking for Carpo.
Speaker 2And so, finally, they caught the bear and they killed it over Maple and Sumac tree branches, and that's why these specific trees Maple and Sumac turn red because of the bear or the bear's blood. Oh yeah, this is why I gave a warning.
Speaker 1I have a legend, a native legend, about why Oaks and Maples dropped their leaves. So you talked about a legend that they have in the native communities about why they changed colors. Well, this is about why Oaks and Maples, for example, lose their leaves, but pine trees keep their needles or their leaves. So, according to the legend, there was a sparrow, and a sparrow was cold and it wanted to get refuge in the leaves of an oak tree, but the oak tree turned it away and was like nah.
Speaker 1It was like nah, you can't hang out here, we don't like sparrows. The sparrow then went to the maple tree and sought refuge there also, and guess what it was like? Nah, the maple tree was a big no.
Speaker 2Maple tree was big either.
Speaker 1So the poor little sparrow sought refuge in the needles of the pine tree. And even though the pine tree needles weren't as substantial or as comfortable or didn't hide them they're a little pokey, yeah, didn't hide them as much the pine tree welcomed the sparrow and said come on in, sparrow, you can hang out here on our pine leaves. So when the creator learned of the tree's behavior, he caused the deciduous trees which are the oaks and the maples to drop their leaves, but allowed the pine tree to keep their needles all year round.
Speaker 2I like that.
Speaker 1It's a good native legend.
Speaker 2I have another one about leaves changing colors. Ok, it also has to do with a bear. I don't know why all of them have to do with bears. What's wrong with you over there? I don't know. I like bears, I guess, or I don't. I don't know. I don't know anymore. You can't explore that off air. Let's just blame it on Carpo.
Speaker 1On whoever named Carpo. Let's blame it on them. Or Carpo Exactly, yes, podcast. One has something to say. What is it?
Speaker 2Yes, I guess that's all he had to say. He just wanted to say hi, ok. So in a Huron legend it tells that a fight broke out between deer and the trouble making bear in the Skyland. While the deer was winning, wolf came up into the sky to break up the fight. It was like Ayo, you guys are causing a ruckus.
Speaker 1Could you describe the ruckus, sir? Sir?
Speaker 2Never mind.
Speaker 1All of you parents from the 80s will thank me for that one.
Speaker 2I'm sad I don't get that Email me. So anyway, with all the animals having to obey the wolf because he was such a higher up, the bear and the deer fled. As the deer ran, the bear's blood dripped from his antlers onto the tree's below, turning them different colors. Eww, gross.
Speaker 1By the way, my native story Polkler was way cooler, I know.
Speaker 2I know it was Not that yours was cool, you just no, I know, I know what you're saying. You went for the dark side. These are the ones I found. I was like why is everything have to do with bear murder? Hey, do you want?
Speaker 1to? Wow, I was so concerned, heather. Let's move on to some superstitions, that's remember the sparrow and the pine needles, and also carpo and then feel, and kids draw a picture of the sparrow I want to do this, you should do that you could draw. Yeah, I think you should. Yes, I just have some different superstitions and kind of fun facts.
Speaker 2I do as well.
Speaker 1So these are all things that people used to believe, or maybe some people still believe, and I'll just go down my list and then you can just add in your stuff too. The brighter the leaf colors in the fall, do you think it means it'll be colder and snowier, or less snow? I think it'll be warmer the brighter the leaps. This these are superstitions, by the way people believe. Some people believe the brighter the leaf colors in the fall, the colder and snowier will be the winter.
Speaker 1Oh, never mind, it does seem like it would be opposite yeah, right, because it's like bright and there's like sun and you're happy some people believe, the earlier the fall color peaks, so the earlier that the leaves change and, you know, show their brightest colors, the milder the winter will be oh, if you have a large amount of healthy produce in the autumn, you would have a warm winter so leaves that stay on the tree later in autumn says a winter will be more severe.
Speaker 1I feel like some of these superstitions are like in direct contrast with each other yes, um.
Speaker 2If the ducks migrate late, the winter will come late.
Speaker 1A ground that is covered by acorns in the fall will be covered by snow throughout the winter. Dun, dun, dun. Tree branches cracking and snapping in the fall says the winter is going to be dry. Oh, I could see that there could be some science to that, because it might mean there's less moisture everywhere um, if your onions have thick skin, it will be a cold winter yeah, you know what I've, I've heard that one wait really.
Speaker 2Yeah, I can see the logic, because they have to protect themselves more if they're staying outside.
Speaker 1So I can see that if a cherry tree bloomed in autumn, it was bad luck. Oh no, and it was a sign that someone would die and that the cherry tree would also die oh, I had that on my list. I'm glad you.
Speaker 2I'm glad you said it because I've already brought the dark, like bear stories, so we can even it out now. Um, in Scotland, a red rose blooming in the fall could mean a marriage and a white rose could was a sign of death. Uh, oh yay.
Speaker 1I think this is really sweet. There is a superstition that says if you see a leaf that's falling on the first day of autumn, if you catch it, it helps you stay healthy throughout the whole winter. And then also some people said, um, that if you see the first leaf falling and you catch it, that it brings you. You make a wish and it brings you good luck. I think that's such a sweet superstition. Yeah, I really know that it's the first one falling, though huh in your heart you do whether it must mean the first one that you see falling right yeah, I have.
Speaker 2If you catch a falling leaf you will have good luck, and for everyone you catch after is one plus one month good luck.
Speaker 1I just look out and I see you with the big you know what I just see you with the big pile. We should have dedicated this episode to your father. By the way, we've had to listen to talking about raking, not raking the leaves for like four weeks in a row. I have one last thing that I want to tell you before we go. Oh, I have a few facts. Okay, you go, because I want to tell you this at the end did you know there's a scientific term for uh leaves falling?
Speaker 1say what leafa lala polina?
Speaker 2sorry what?
Speaker 1what is it? What language is that? I don't know. It was um greek latin tarfo. I mean latin, latin always playing with.
Speaker 2On latin um, the term is leaf abscission. Wow, okay, it's the scientific term for leaves falling um some plants, leaves barely change color before they fall, like elm trees, who just kind of turn brown and die and we're disappointed in you.
Speaker 2I'm like I just think we can yeah, you really need to like step your game up, like step it up. And why don't evergreens drop their needles? I just told you, because they keep. They kept the sparrow. Besides keeping the sparrow, they're not deciduous. Well, their foliage is not only covered in a wax like substance huh, that is a protective layer. The fluid inside them is freeze proof. Say what?
Speaker 1wow, I said proof. You know what? I never thought about that, but you're right right, they never freeze yeah, that has to be true exactly. I like how I said that, like, most of the things that you say on here aren't true wow wow. I know, I don't know why I did that so rude. Okay, what's the tree's least favorite month of the year? Month uh, the tree's least favorite month of the year is September.
Speaker 2That's a good one, that's a really good joke, so good. Did you think of that?
Speaker 1of course. How dare you? Um, I did want to tell you this. Oh, in the UK, in the fall, they play a game called Conkers. Oh huh, and why?
Speaker 1it's because horse, horse, chestnuts, so chestnuts yeah horse chestnuts are called Conkers, or sometimes called Conkers there it's such a funny word and they use them to play a game, and the first recorded game of Conkers goes back to 1848. And I bet you want to know how to play, don't you? Yes, so get a horse chestnut, okay, and you thread it onto a piece of string, got it? And then? So two people stand facing each other oh, no, and they each have their conqueror on a string, say wow, and then you try to flick your conquer huh at the opponent's conquer, and who whichever person flicks theirs and breaks the other conquer first, wins. Huh, it sounds difficult, it does. Maybe we should break it, maybe we should make a video, a conquer video, uh. But then I also read that sometimes people cheat and they soak their horse chestnut and water beforehand, which means it's not dry any longer, so it would be harder to break so if you want to learn nasty, cheetahs if you want to, if you want to win at Conkers.
Speaker 1That's how.
Speaker 2I mean, I bet, if you cheat in Conkers, that you're gonna have a falling out with that first. Wow, wow, um. We ought um to answer our teachers in a lie. Okay, here we go.
Speaker 1I'll say them and you tell me if it's truth or lie. Got it? Evergreen trees are frost proof. That is true. Chloroform helps determine leaf color. No, what is it in style? Chlorophyll, chlorophyll. And if you're a regular listener, you'll know that we were talking about leaves and then she said chloroform I.
Speaker 2I accidentally said chloroform and it was highly concerning we had to make that our lie today yes, um, in the last one. Conkers is a popular fall game it is in the UK and people can cheat in it. Go on out, conquer yourself. Go out, out and conquer. Conquer. That's good. That needs to be like they're they're like slogan you is there a conquer club, the conquer?
Promoting the Podcast and Website
Speaker 1I have so many other questions I always have questions.
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