The Philip Duff Show
Liquor, bars, cocktails: the people and companies who make them, sell them and drink them, plus everything & everyone in-between, with your host, globetrotting spirits guy and escaped bartender, Philip Duff.
The Philip Duff Show
#163, Hemant Pathak, partner & beverage director Junoon, Jazba, Room 207 & Tandoor Oven (NYC), World Class and Bacardi Legacy winner (India)
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Hemant , who is from a small village in the foothills of the Himalayas, became a star overnight after winning Diageo World Class India, followed quickly by winning Bacardi Legacy India, but when he moved to New York he was briefly homeless and just four weeks from returning to India. At the last moment he was connected to restaurateur Rajesh Bhardwaj, owner of the Michelin-starred Junoon restaurant, where Hemant went on to become the beverage director and general manager. Subsequently Hemant was able to buy his own restaurant, Tandoor Oven on NY's Upper East Side, and go on to open the acclaimed Jazba and, most recently, Room 207 bar with Rajesh, and even open his own boutique hotel in his home town.
Hemant's a warm and cheerful man I've known for years, and it was a delight to get his full backstory - this is one of the best episodes we have taped, enjoy!
Hemant on IG: https://www.instagram.com/hemantnyc/?hl=en
Junoon: https://www.instagram.com/junoonnyc/?hl=en
Jazba: https://www.instagram.com/jazbanyc/?hl=en
Room 207: https://www.instagram.com/room207nyc
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We're back in beautiful room 207 in the back of Jazz Bah. Uh I can't believe you don't drink coffee in the mornings, Hemans. Or do you? I do.
SPEAKER_03I mean I just had one coffee before I get here, so.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, you didn't know you might be stuck in traffic, which is a nightmare coming through that fucking tunnel, man.
SPEAKER_03This was crazy this morning. Absolutely. I was I was so scared that you will be here, you will be standing outside, nobody's opening the door. That's why I send you a text.
SPEAKER_01I found my way in. I found my way inside. Uh you know this place very well now. I do, actually. Not as well as Tony Sachs. He's been here more often than me.
SPEAKER_03He's the man.
SPEAKER_01Well, I don't think uh my wife's even had uh been to Jasba and had the food. So we will have to we'll have to fix that. We'll do it all after BC Brooklyn and World Gin Week. Because before then, I'm just crazy, and so are you.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely. I can wait to have Elin here. I don't think she's been to Jesba or Room 27, as you said.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So then again, she just works, works, works, works. And then she complains that she doesn't go out, but I do, and I'm like, I'm not keeping you at home here. This is you're filling the gap. I am, I'm I'm flying the duff flag. So have you got stuff going on for the week of BC Brooklyn?
SPEAKER_03So uh we're not doing anything on the ground, but yes, I'm excited for all the seminars and you know, meeting so many bar community there, also tasting, trailing so many things.
SPEAKER_01There's uh like I'm in a couple of uh WhatsApp groups and everyone's posting invites and stuff like that. Like there is so much stuff going on.
SPEAKER_03Send me some of them.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, one of them is uh a party we're having for the launch, really, of a cocktail bitters called Australian Bitters Company that'll be at Ophelia on Monday the 8th, right from 5 to 8, the day that's the day before BC Brooklyn. And the same night, Mrs. Duff and her team are hosting a baller party at the Widow Jane distillery in uh Red Hook in Brooklyn. Well, I had I went and went to Widow Jane years ago uh when they were starting out, and I'm like, oh, cool, this is cute what you're doing here. Uh my wife got the job about two years ago. Last year, she said, Do you want to come to the party? I'm like, sure, I'll come to the party. Holy shit! They throw the wildest parties, like they turned the bottling line into like a kind of a Twin Peaks diner, except instead of coffee, it was cocktails, obviously. They had a speakeasy upstairs, they had, you know, it it was just amazing. And it was Widow Jane fans and people from the neighborhood, so that is a party not to be missed. Beg pardon. We'll get we'll get you an invite if you want to come. Well, yeah, I would love to have. No, it's it's honestly, it is a bit of a hike out there, but it is worth the trip. Amazing. It's so cool. Also, Hammonds, there's a lot going on with you. Uh and I sent you a text, I'm like, dude, we've got to catch up. This is the best thing about the podcast. I can actually catch up with my friends and put out some content. But let's take it back. Let's get the Hammans origin story. Where'd you grow up?
SPEAKER_03Um, I want to start by saying thank you, Philip. Um, I think you know, next hour will be fun with you because whenever I meet you and you are already in dress, or you're just coming for a matini, or just bumping out the colour. Yeah, we never just sit down. Some of those amazing bars across, but it's good to have you here at room 207 and with some relaxed coffee and you sit back, you look great on that couch.
SPEAKER_01It never it never it never happens. You're right. I hadn't even thought of that. This is the morning. We don't even you can't see this. But there is no alcohol in front of us, which I don't think has ever happened. Hi-5 for that.
SPEAKER_03Cool. Of course. Cool. Um Yeah, going back to your questions, uh, born and grew up in Futil of Himalayas, back in India. Um you know, people talk about uh rural India. That's me. Uh, because you know, from my hometown, if you drive 40 minutes, you're in Nepal. Um, or if you're going to one of the uh trails called Kalas Mansover, you can miss my hometown, which is pretty much like a China, Nepal, uh China and India border. Right. So if you stand in my roof in my village, you can see seven mountains in a row, so layers of mountains.
SPEAKER_01So your village has roofs, that's quite advanced for rural India. Exactly.
SPEAKER_03So uh born and grew up there, and uh, you know, co-educations, Hindi medium all across. Um you grew up speaking Hindi? Hindi, yes, that's our mother tongue. So um I learned my alphabet's A B C D uh from the English textbook in my 60 standard. Um so I had no idea, you know, how to cope up. Uh but after finishing my uh uh high school and plus two, when I decided to go for hotel management, I had no idea because uh you know suddenly from Hindi textbook everything changed to the English.
SPEAKER_01And had you read English, spoken English before?
SPEAKER_03Uh meaning from 6th to 12th, uh basics, elementary, whatever you study, that you can pass exams and school English. The school English, yes. Nothing, nothing more than that. So when I went for hotel management and everything, you know, all English all across, uh, it was it was a little difficult.
SPEAKER_01Uh where did you you you you would be what 20 now?
SPEAKER_03Um that time or now? Yeah, when you went to study hotel management. I when I went for uh when I went to study hotel management, that time I was precisely uh 21. Right.
SPEAKER_01And so you left your village, you went to like a university or something? University, yes.
SPEAKER_03So I went to my uh uh you know capital of my state. Uh it's called Dehradun. So it was a three year program, uh, and you have to go through you know all the semesters, then industrial training. Um, so you need to participate in uh on the third third year of your schooling, you need to go for some sort of exposure in five-star hotels or or um some sort of like you know, establishment. Um But my father, when I when I was they supported me so much, um, mainly my elder brother. My father said, Um, you know, son, you're going away. Just remember one thing. Even if you get a broom and somebody asks you to sweep the floor and do it in such a way that people say somebody clean the floor today. So that was enough for me to live by and just to look up and say, like, you know what, move on. I have to do this, there is no other option now. So, you know, um, three years of study. Um, though you have to study in every field as far as the hotel operation concerned, that means front desk, uh, housekeeping, food productions, food and beverage services, where the you know, all the uh food and beverages let it work what you learn and do. But I got fascinated with with with the alcohol side of it or a bar side of it.
SPEAKER_01And had you any experience with alcohol at that time? No, nothing. You've never had you ever drunk any?
SPEAKER_03Maybe here and there in my college days while doing my hotel management, but prior to that, no alcohol.
SPEAKER_01And was there what was like growing up, what was how is alcohol regarded in your village? Was it rare? Was it common? Was it sort of looked down on a bit maybe?
SPEAKER_03Alcohol has never been a part of our culture and society, and uh it's not considered like you know one of the most happening things. Even I never dare to uh sit with my dad and have a drink prior to getting into a job. Um, you know. So that's never been a part of. I would see my grandpa sometime, being from uh from an army background, he he will open a bottle and celebrate. That's about it. Because that's not that was not the culture, you know. Now modern India had changed a bit. Um we don't look into alcohol that way, like you know, like a decade ago or two decades ago. It was different, especially for us, you know, coming from from a village or a small town. You're on the border with a so um but I I just thought, meaning because I was not very studious, of course. Um, but I would say I was smart enough to think about uh you know, old of gin or Jenever could be the same for every cuisine. Right? For it doesn't matter, it's a European, Japanese, Asian, Indian, where the the culinary terms from from uh the kitchen to kitchen could be different. I said, why don't I stick on the alcohol side of it? So starting from my second year, I started going so heavy and studying hard about textbooks, back of the you know, whatever happens in terms of fermentation distillations and in the world of a little bit of wine and more of the spirit side. So that helped me to get a little bit of that, you know, study part of it. And yeah, this is how it started.
SPEAKER_01Alright, so one thing that's very common with hotel management courses is that they have textbooks with, you know, so much information about food, so much information about wine, and then a little information about maybe whiskey and cognac, and this much about bar management. In fact, I once had two students take a management bar management course I taught in Amsterdam, and they had come from the most famous and expensive hotel school in the world, L'école supérieure de l'hôtellerie in Lausanne. It's something like $80,000 a year, tuitions like Harvard. And they told me that afterwards I took them out for a drink, and they said they'd never uh had one single thing they'd learned in the last two days mentioned to them in four years at the best hotel school. Was that also the case with you guys? It wasn't a lot about the bar in us or about cocktails.
SPEAKER_03You said it right. Exactly. That's that's you know, I I felt the same. I got fascinated about bar and mixology side when I went for well, I was working um in a in Taj hotels after my graduation, and uh I went to uh attend a seminar from Yandu Plama, uh a great guru, you know, one of the um big figures in uh Indian bar scene uh on sidecar, brooks, uh, cocktail and spicy in Gurgao. Um so I and I was there to represent my hotel and just doing that two-day seminar uh with him, and uh I saw he he just he was just randomly asking, like, okay, can you get me wasabi from the uh Japanese restaurant? Can you get me these spices from Indian restaurant? And he was just keeping mixing. I said, like, dude, this is something that was not a part of our textbook. You know, that fascinated me so much. I said, like, that is another world. We had no idea about that while we were studying that three-year course uh during how to manage that. So that was the day when I thought about I think that that is something I want to do.
SPEAKER_01Nice. So you said it right. And what were you doing at Taj Hotels, which is a luxury train?
SPEAKER_03Uh yeah, so I I joined them um year of 2008 as a steward in Indian restaurant. So I was just um handling the floor as a service part, uh taking orders and serving food and things like that. And where were you living at this stage? Uh that time I was living in New Delhi. So that was Taj Palace, New Delhi.
SPEAKER_01That must have been a big change. Like, first to go from your village to study. Like where you studied, what was like the population?
SPEAKER_03Um precisely I don't know, but it's a very small town, um, you know. Like 20,000, 50,000? A little over. I would say about 45,000.
SPEAKER_01And New Delhi, I mean, how many fucking people live in New Delhi, man? How many people do live in New Delhi? Um, hey, I have no idea. Um Readers, tell us in the comments how many people live in New Delhi, but it's gotta be like 10 million, 20 million, something like that.
SPEAKER_03It's a big change. That's a big change. Big change, yeah, yeah, yeah. Big change. So Delhi was another world for me. You know, um, I remember it's a funny story, uh, where I will, you know, I was uh I was, you know, first time when I got a job and I was supposed to go to my auntie's house in in uh New Delhi because uh I was supposed to do like six months job training at uh La Meridian Hotel. So they said, okay, uh get off on this station, get into this particular bus, and that many stops and get off here. I said, okay.
SPEAKER_01Um this is presumably before cell phones and Wi-Fi.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, there were cell phones, but not like today. Not like now. Like, you know, I had a very small Nokia phone. Nice uh Nokia 6300, uh no internet, nothing. You can make just the calling things like that. Yeah. So I got off at the bus stations, uh, you know, from my the bus was coming from uh my station, and I was supposed to go into uh uh Delhi Transport Corpus, uh 729 bus number. I still remember that. And I got in bus and I had no idea how the Delhi Metro City bus functions. Um in my village, you would go to conductor and ask for a ticket, but in Delhi, you uh the the I mean uh other way around. In in my village, conductor would come to you and ask for tickets. And in Delhi, conductor will sit on his seat and everybody's supposed to go and take tickets. I had no idea about all this. So I just sat in a bus and the gentleman next to me never asked for a ticket. And I said, like, nobody's coming. I think the buses are free. Dude, I I went comfortably, I got off, reached my auntie's house, and said, like, wow, what a city! Buses are free here. They said, like, what happened? I said, like, this is what happened. Conductor never came to ask for a ticket. They all started laughing. They're like, my nephew is a thief. That time I said, dude, like a two-year hotel management graduate, a well-grown gentleman does not even know about how the Metro City functions. That time I thought, like, this was not an ignorance. This was an innocence of a Pahari, like a mountain boy.
SPEAKER_01All those years later, our Indian mayor in New York wants to make the buses here free. So these magical days may yet come to pass. Has Zoran been by, by the way? Everything is good, my friend. If you're listening, Mr. Mamdani, there's a great bar down here on 13th and 2nd called Room 207. You feel very at home. So after you uh started on your life of crime, uh you're in and you you saw that uh seminar by indeed one of the great gurus. It was a bit of an Indian theme in the last few uh episodes because one of the last people we had on was Rakshay Daraval from uh My Epistology. I heard WPRA. Well, so after you were kind of exposed to that, what happened then with your career?
SPEAKER_03So um so when I joined that Indian restaurant, there was a very small dispense bar, and that was unoperational. Uh we used to go in the you know back bar to get alcohol and cocktails for our Indian restaurant. So I I pushed my manager, I said, like, listen, I think we can save a little bit in manpower and make everybody's life easy if we can you know put together some some sort of spritz and do some basic mocktails uh from this bar. And he agreed, he liked the idea. He said, like, okay, you do it. So I cleaned the whole bar and you know got some supply and make things happen. And I started doing basic stuff from that particular bar. That was a the start of my journey as a as a as a bartender, you know. So I used to make uh I used to do a carving on a pineapple and used to make a star out of it for one of the ghanays. So and similar time, uh the hotel decided to put together uh a bar bar uh called Blue Bar, uh first off its uh one of its kind of cocktail bar. Because back in those times, 2008-2009, India has no craft cocktail bar scene. Meaning you would you could find bar only in five-star hotels, and you could find cocktails like all the classics, you know, and that menu would never change.
SPEAKER_01And the alcohol, for people who don't know, the alcohol taxes are really high in India.
SPEAKER_03That's that that's and they go up and down as well. That differs from state to state. Yeah. Every state has their own regulations in terms of taxism. So it's it's very, it's very it's very complicated. Um so uh when they start they thought of opening a blue bar um and Taj as a as a luxury chain, uh, they hired uh uh a bartender from Manchester, UK called Nick Hawkins. And uh and they wanted to make it big. Uh first of it's uh first time it's uh one of its kind of like cocktail bar in New Delhi. And they thought of uh hiring uh the uh the staff from the different outlets, different restaurants, different bars within the hotel itself. So uh a committee also went in my small bar inside the uh inside the Indian restaurant, um, and they saw that star, uh, you know, that pineapple garnis. Pineapple garnis. And they said, Who makes this star? It's like there is only one guy, heyman handles the bar here, so maybe he he has done that. So that star gave me a chance to go to the blue bar.
SPEAKER_01Now I come under Nick Hawkins and and uh up until then, had you uh read any cocktail books? Had you begun looking at stuff on the internet or anything like that? Where were you getting your knowledge from?
SPEAKER_03A bit in the internet, but nothing more than that. When I joined Blue Bar uh back in 2010, I had no idea the spit uh of vermut and and and gin uh in in a martini. So one of my FNB doctors came in. I said, like, I want a Martini. And I was just following like a one-to-one.
SPEAKER_02And he screamed at me, I was like, You made a 50-50. Yeah, 50-50. 50-50, right? And he's called the manager, like, what are you doing? Who put him in behind the bar? You know, he doesn't know I want to make a remote.
SPEAKER_03Nobody had any recipes, right? Nobody had any recipes. I was just looking into the internet and maybe a few books here and there. I was just following the classic side of it. But that six months under under Nick Hawkins uh really taught me the basics of the bar and mainly the classic cocktails. And that really helped me to grow in my early stage. And then slowly I started, you know, he pushed me to go for competitions and whatnot. And I think that's the best, that the best thing ever happened in my life. And so I started going absolute to Bacadi Legacy, to uh, of course, the world class, Finlandia. Uh so I first won I think Finlandia, the Finlandia World Cup Finlandia World Cup, I was the runner of in India. I couldn't win the the and couldn't go to the Finland, but I was the runner of, and that was the first price for me was 25,000 rupees. I still remember back in 2010. Um then 2011, uh 2010 also I participated in Bacardi Legacy. I couldn't win. I was in top ten and I couldn't. But I didn't, you know, I said like I need to go, I need to go.
SPEAKER_01Well 25,000 rupees, like what would that compare to? Like what did you earn in a week normally?
SPEAKER_03That time, uh, oh, that was uh four times of my salary. For a week? I was I was oh no, in a in a month. Um it was four months salary. Yes, I was earning when I joined hotels, I was earning five thousand rupees. That was that was two thousand eight, yeah. Per month. So you won plus some tips here and there. So I would say about seven thousand rupees. So that was about hundred dollars uh in a month. That was two thousand eight.
SPEAKER_01So you won like three, four months' salary. That's a lot. Three months' salary, yeah. That's like winning forty, fifty thousand dollars in the States in Beijing.
SPEAKER_03So then 2011, best thing happened. Uh I was uh uh I became the first bartender to represent India for DJ World class. Um I won among 396 bartend bartender within the country and um got a chance to meet like Eric Lawrence and you know where were the finals that year? Uh that was the third world class, and the final was uh in India only.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03First time ever in the middle of the year.
SPEAKER_01I remember I remember that happening there because people had been going out to India. Um I obviously the the one most people would know is Tim Ethericton Judge. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um so that was my moment to meet um Sardidov, Salapudar Kalabrizi, um Yun-san, and um we had Who's Who in India. So Amazing.
SPEAKER_01That that really levels like that's that's the best thing about competitions, and I think we need to reframe it as you know, a network and uh an experience rather than winning or losing. Because if 200 people enter, 199 are not going to win.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01So you feel awful. But if you think, fuck man, I get to stand next to Dale de Groff and I get to drink with Ueno, and I get to see Savazori wheel his fucking martini card. See, that's the worth more than anything.
SPEAKER_03Um one point, uh Ser Gary Regan, late Ser Gary Deagan.
SPEAKER_01God, I wish we had a drink in front of us to toast, to toast to Gary Raymond.
SPEAKER_03I would I would do that. I would finger stud Martini for you after this, uh Nigroni for you after this. Uh we'll have to do it. We'll have to do it. I would definitely do that. Um so he gave us the white gloves and he had some original classic cocktail books. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Like a 1852 uh, you know, but yeah, most people don't associate that with Gary, but he was a real collector. He was, he was a real collector.
SPEAKER_03And he brought all those books for us in India. Amazing. And so we were just flipping. That was the moment, man. Seriously, that changed my mindset about this provision upside down.
SPEAKER_01What did your parents think of this? Like, so after you won DIJO world class for India, and you also, you know, you picked up a few quid in the contests, uh, what had your parents thought about your swerve into the bar? And what did they think? Once you started getting some success and recognition?
SPEAKER_03So first thing first, they had no idea what I'm doing. Right. Because they're in a village. When I say I'm going for hotel management, they thought I will be a manager after my three years. It's a respectable job. That's respectable jobs. Even if my I if I'm my grandma is 98, if I tell her today, like, hey, I work in hotels, she understands only two things. Either I cook or I diswash. Right. Because we don't come from a five uh you know fine dining culture or a five-star culture. You know, even my parents does not have any idea. They went to a five-star hotel first time when I was, you know, winning all these moments and and you know, working in five-star hotels. So I I had a privilege to bring them over and give them a little bit of that luxurious side of life. Nice. And otherwise they had no idea. And they had no idea up until like five years ago that I do mixology, bartending. And now, even after Biyaji Word class or Bakari Legacy, when I arrived here, they had no idea what I do. When I joined Juno the very first time, they thought, oh, I'm just going for uh you know a management job in Junon and I just got something in in New York. Up until Mumbai Margarita. Oh, let's hear that story. That was Patron Margarita of the year in the here. So when I went back, they said, we are hearing about, we are keeping voting about your Mumbai Margarita when we get a chance to have one. So luckily, the year after 2018, my parents were here in Junun, and I I literally I stood behind the bar with them, and I I from the scratch, I made a Mumbai Margita for my mom and for my my dad. That was the real moment. I captured, I still have a video, I still have some photographs. That moment, that point they understood like what I do. They had little idea about alcohol bar, that no idea about how to mix.
SPEAKER_01Did they like the margaritas? That's the question. They loved it. What is like the fuck is this, Hans?
SPEAKER_03They loved it. So that is, you know, I don't I don't think the the something like money or you know, that can that can give you that satisfaction what I had that day.
SPEAKER_01You know, that was when your parents parents finally get it, uh it's usually a magical moment like that. But so let's let's go back. So you've you know your world was opened up by the little bit of knowledge you got in hotel management textbooks, you developed a love of the bar, you uh then got this chance to work with uh Mr. Hawkins, he pushed you to compete, that opened up your world. So, what happened after you won the IGR World Class India and you got to meet all the the living legends?
SPEAKER_03So after that, my world opened up. Suddenly, next day, that was 16th July uh 2011. We were in a ballroom of Imperial Hotel in New Delhi, and suddenly, you know, Spike Merchant, that was the global um head for world class. He announced um on a role like uh I'm the winner of one of the challenges by Yunosan uh from Hi-Fi Bar in Japan. Uh so I was the winner of classic vintage and twist cocktail challenge on a global stage. So that changed my life. Next day I could see myself on uh L Magazine, you know, Sprit Business and all like Indian newspapers and global magazines. Right. So that suddenly changed my life 180 degree overnight. And next day, who started calling me and I started getting a little bit of that momentum over the internet. Um then 2012 happened, and uh I dared to compete again, and uh uh David Cardova, Urjid Bose, they were uh handling the um Bacardi legacy. And uh I got a chance as a uh as a as a I was not the the winner for that year, but I was so close to win. They said like this boy needs to go. So they uh um asked like he needs to go to Puerto Rico for the global final. So 2012 I I arrived in Puerto Rico among 26 countries representing India with the India winner. So that was my entry in this country. Um that was I landed. Um it was the longest flight of my life at the one of the very first international, uh, about 22 hours from India to Amsterdam to Atlanta to uh to Puerto Rico. Um so I landed on Valentine's Day of 2012. So I uh I I stayed there for about uh a week, uh, so doing three days um inside the disturby, then competitions and whatnot. And that that was something, you know. Then I saw myself like you know among the international bartenders uh in outside India, and uh I was attending a seminar by David Sid, and um then the global ambassador, no? He was the uh US ambassador of Apacaros. Um that was fascinating. The way they were speaking, the way they were explaining. I said, like, I wanna stay here. That was that was the moment. I said, like, wow, I like a bartender could do that. I said, I need to look up to this, I need to polish myself and get there where where they are right now.
SPEAKER_01Which wasn't that far from where you were. Uh like in order to get that far in all those competitions, you you know, you must have developed great as well as mixology. You need humor, organization, good public speaking skills. They're very transferable. Exactly.
SPEAKER_03Yes. Um so after finishing the uh Puerto Rico, uh, one of my friends asked me, why don't you come to New York? You know, it's very close. I said, I mean, relatively speaking, it is close. It's if your home is New Delhi, of course.
SPEAKER_01For Puerto Rico, not that close.
SPEAKER_03He said, like, okay, I then I called, I made the arrangements with my hotel, called the Baccardi, I redoubted my flight. Oh, on the same trip. On the same time, so I I landed here uh in New York, and I was supposed to be here only for like three, four days, you know, with the help of my friend sleeping on his couch and and whatnot. But I stayed here for three weeks. Three weeks. Two weeks. And uh, long story short, I met a few people here and there, and I went back, I resigned my my Taj job. They were not ready to leave me. I got a letter from uh the cool luxury division that time asking to stay with them, uh be ambassador of uh of Taj, not only for my hotel, uh they killerly mentioned like we know how skilled you are, we appreciate your your work with us and whatnot. I was but that was that was the moment I thought, like, you know, I I will go, I will study, I will learn a little bit, and I will go back. That was the whole idea of leaving Taj at that point. Uh but you know, after that, after that that resignations, when I came back here, something big happened in my life. From the pinnacle of my mixology career working with one of the most luxury, most humble chain in the world, I became homeless in this city. How did that happen? Uh, because the journeyman who promised me uh to open a steakhouse for them and you know, promised me like, okay, you will have this, this, this, this, nothing happened, that steakhouse never opened. Um, later on, after four months, I came to know like uh maybe they were they wanted to play with my visa and whatnot, because I was still they promised me that they will apply for you know some sort of work visa for me, and nothing happened. After five months, I I had only one month left, so I left their house uh in the middle of the night, and I took my suitcase and uh landed in Jackson Height, Queens. And uh I was under the start for about 48 hours. Um I took a internet from Starbucks, um, managed to find a uh the homestay kind of uh you know uh very old South Indian uncle auntie. They gave me a shelter. Um I they asked me, uh I paid them about $400 to live for that. But last month, right? Um then you know, I think if there is a destiny, you know, nobody can stop you, I think. Um in that particular room, I had a it was a sharing room. We had two beds, there was another gentleman, um, again South Indian. I still remember his name, Mudasar. And he could see me. Uh that last month I worked so hard, literally, on cash. Uh it's not allowed, but not, but somehow I got a job. One of my friends helped me and said, like, this is your last month, why don't you make some money and before you go home? And you so you're still planning to go home? Yeah, because I had no other, because I never wanted to spoil my visa. I said I would go back, work hard, and build something, but I don't want to overstay here. Right. That was in my backhead. I said, like, I will leave. So I again I called my airlines, got the flight change, and I was all set to go. So my roommate, he could see me going early in the morning, you know, well suited. What were you doing? I was working um um in an American restaurant far Brooklyn. So from Queens, about almost like an hour and 15 to 90 minutes uh train ride, Q train, uh E-train to Q train, a last stop of a Q train. That was my job. I would uh I would wake up, change, well dressed, like I had suits from Taj, and I would go there, work very hard all day, and uh come back late in the night. I would work like six, six and a half days in a week. And trust me, I made $5,200 uh in that last month. Um that's not bad. Where where working with the gentleman who promised to me for steakhouse and job and all, I earned only $400. Right. That was not that he got paid, I got paid from him. That was the saving from my lunch money. Jesus. You know, he would buy me groceries for my breakfast and for my dinner while I was running his liquor store. He would he could give me um, he always passed like five dollars, six dollars, and I would convert that money into rupees and say, like, oh, am I spending 400 rupees for lunch? So I would spend like dollar, three dollars, two dollars for a slice of pizza or a spinach puff and things like that. That was my saving from four months of 400 dollars.
SPEAKER_00That's amazing.
SPEAKER_03So that makes me and that made me stronger. Trust me, I don't have any regret in my life. Um even with him, I said, like, you gave me a chance to come to this country to learn language, to learn people, demographs and whatnot. So I'm I I never complain. Um, so the the roommate of mine at the very the uncle auntie's house, and and one day I we would never talk because I would go in the morning and I'm coming back late in the night. I would uh you know, I always find him sleeping because he must be working 9 to 5, and I was early in the morning to late night. One day he was off, I was off to, and he said, Like, dude, what you do? I see you uh, you know, going early in the morning and come late in the night. And sorry, I I flipped your uh folder, and I see you have a DJ Word class book with your face on it, uh, which is here in room 272. And now you're sharing a room with a bloke in Jackson Lights and going. And it's like, and then I that is the very first time in five months I find someone to ask me who I am. Wow. So I broke and I started crying.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And I spilled everything, whatever I had in my heart, mind, and soul. I I explained everything. It's like, wait, let me make a call. You know, he called who he called? Was it Rajesh? He called Rajes Paradwas. You want to explain who that is? Rajes Paradwas, the owner, founder of Janoon RB Hospitality, which owns Janoon, now Jazbah, room 207, and many projects.
SPEAKER_01And how did this gentleman know Rajesh?
SPEAKER_03Um, I think he uh during his uh college days, he worked for Cafe Spice. That was another venture from uh Rajis.
SPEAKER_01I actually remember hearing about Cafe Spice years before I ever came to Janun or even met Rajesh. I knew you before I met Rajesh, actually. That's amazing. Yeah. See, this is the thing for anybody listening in. This whole move to America, move to London, it's really hard. Almost everybody has a story similar to yours. Uh, you should view the first job as you will be disappointed and ripped off, just like you were. Um, but the reason we're in cities like this is because somebody knows somebody. As I say, you don't need to be on social media in New York City, you just need to go to the bar, you'll bump into everybody you need. So anyway, he makes this call to reject. And what happens then?
SPEAKER_03He said, I think you want to meet this boy, and I think he fit to your organizations. And next day he's like, Yeah, bring it over. So I went, uh nobody interviewed, I met Raji's in Janoon? In Janoon. The old location, which I also loved. Um 24 West, uh, sorry, uh 27 West 24 Street. Um, so he asked me a few questions. God knows what I answered, but he liked it, I guess. And he said, Okay, meet this gentleman, file your visa paperwork, whatnot. And so I became the first Indian to get uh extraordinary uh skilled visa in mixology with Janon.
SPEAKER_01The uh the with the O1 or O1, yeah. Yeah, that's the alien of exceptional ability. Yes, exactly. So that's you and Melania Trump have the same visa. America is a great country indeed. Yeah, there's a will, there is a way, you know. But that's I mean, literally, that's amazing. Had um Rajesh heard of you before? No.
SPEAKER_03The only common thing, um, he uh post his graduation from Aichum Pusa in New Dali, he also worked for Taj, and I worked for Taj. So that was the only common background.
SPEAKER_01Do you think he called him for a reference? So like, fuck that guy, he quit on us.
SPEAKER_03I have no about no idea if he did, but I don't think he did.
SPEAKER_01And what did you did? What happened?
SPEAKER_03So I joined the team uh behind the bar. I started doing basics and changing a menu here and there with the guidance of the uh the management that time. And uh over the years, you know, it's been about 15 years working with the group. I work in every position from bar bar bartender to head bartender to um bar manager to babbage director, and now I handle the general manager uh for the last five years.
SPEAKER_01So you actually are using that management degree, finally. Finally, yes. What was it like? So, you know, I imagine you know, being the man at the Taj, you were able to, you know, see something on the internet, read something on a book, and do it in the bar, and everybody would go, oh amazing, right? New York is, to put it mildly, rather competitive when it comes to cocktails and bars. So, what was it like uh serving New Yorkers drinks in Janune for the first few months and years of your career here?
SPEAKER_03See, um I was very killer about you know, uh I knew this part that this is the best place I landed. Uh so if I wanna groom myself, if I wanna grow, it it was killer in my head that New York is the space. New York is the place for me. Junun, um the best house getting you whatever you want in terms of because as far as the Indian food concerned, or getting that South Southeast Asian cuisine that particular moment, you know, making a difference in the uh in the world as far as the Indian food concerned. Uh so I the best thing ever happened, New York and Junon at the same time. Um, so they already had an amazing program. Um their one program was over 500 labels, two stars from um New York Times, and you know, one program that time was Scott Kearney, one of the Master Some. Um so cocktail program, they had beautiful riff on a classic cocktails and whatnot. But when I arrived, I thought, you know what, we can do a little different, you know. Why don't we focus on Southeast Asian flavors? Where we can say, oh, these are complementing nicely, vice and versa, with the food, and we can create something different. Nobody was doing that in in New York that time. So, and Junun was the best house because they had a beautiful spice room. Probably you remember that. I do. And you can go in and do whatever you want to do, you know, in terms of making your own plants and you know, getting to know to some exotic flavors. And I think that was in my head, like, okay, I could have been at that point, I could have been adopted like any other style, like you know, going a little bit of that Italian way, American way, Asian way. But I thought, you know what, we want to make your own identity, thinking about spices, you know, some sort of exotic fruits, teas, and whatnot. And I called it, you know, spice-inspired mixology.
SPEAKER_01So, quick question about that. Obviously, uh, Indian food, I'm doing that air quotes thing in New York is very different to the Indian food that you would get in London, and that of course is a little different to what you get in India. Uh what most people who have had proper Indian cuisine will say that it's very often dumbed down, especially in Manhattan. So, how did you or did you uh approach, shall we say, the New York palette with your cocktails?
SPEAKER_03So I I was simply um, of course, getting inspiration from the classic cocktails and doing some sort of like, you know, flavor or two kind of reef, adding a little bit extra dimension with the flavors. So nothing more than that. Even if I'm doing a negroni, so I would kind of like you know, make a little bit of that spice bermouth with the cold macerations, then make a little bit of that spiced negroni. Right? If I'm doing a caprini, for example, so I would flavor the uh the sugar with a little bit of turnmurique and a little bit of uh. I was actually just about to say turmeric. And with the lime muddle and make a caprina out of it. So that was I was doing a simple thing, but adding a little bit extra touch with some of those exotic because if you look at they say the spicy margaritas almost the standard order now.
SPEAKER_01So it's not like Americans can't consume spice, but I think they have this paranoia that it's gonna this is misconception, I would say.
SPEAKER_03I think Americans eat more spicy than Indian. We do have, I don't know if you remember eating at Jujba, there is a this hair called uh green chili chicken, which has nothing but green chili and curry leaves. I think you insisted I have it the first time I came. That's ringing a bell. That is one of the most selling this here, and I see more Americans ordered that than Indian.
SPEAKER_01Well, there's this thing, and I want to ask you about this. Um, with the exception of places that are amazing anyway, regardless of their theme. Dead Rabbit is a good example. I usually avoid Irish bars because I left Ireland to get away from those people, right? And very often they're full of people who are pretending to be Irish, or Irish people who have no personality, and their only personality is being Irish. Um if I was an Indian and I came to Jasbah, I'd like to think I'd be interested to try the food, though. You know, and the cocktails as well, of course. But how do Indian people approach Janoon and Jasba and Room 207?
SPEAKER_03Um, see, uh all three concepts are completely different. Um, of course, under the same umbrella, but different approach. Um, Janoon kind of leading uh for the last 15 years, uh doing bringing the uh authentic flavor and presenting the best possible way, um thinking about whatever trend is going on around the world, how we can you know go along and and showcase our cuisine. Where Jajba is very authentic. Um it took us about 27 months to put together this concept where uh we hired uh a team of five cooks in India and have them trained there for about six months. Because it's very easy to say, like, oh, I'm Indian, I know Indian food, but in my opinion, it's to an extent. You know, so we want to be such a vast country. Yeah, absolutely. Every four steps the cuisine changed. So you need to know, like, okay, if there is a street food which is lasting for over 200 years, there there has to be some magic, you know. So we went back to the roots to understand that magic and bring that magic over with us, uh, you know, in the heart of New York.
SPEAKER_01Did you hire the chefs like regionally, like one from this state, one from that state?
SPEAKER_03Yes, we did. We did. But they were they are well traveled, uh, they work with uh various uh hotels and and well-known restaurants back home. Uh and again, we just walked with them to every every city where whatever food we wanted to uh to touch. And then we brought that coutin with us. This is how the jezba was built. And now, as far as room to or seven concerned, this is uh um a dream project. You know, every bartender thinks about putting a bar, you know.
SPEAKER_01That's that's a that's a wish. This is a sexy speaking. I can't wait to bring um some of the old Booker and Dax bartenders here, like Nick Bennett. Well, I took Nick Bennett to Jasper that night, and he was like, Well, because he used to he used to work in this room at Booker and Dax.
SPEAKER_03He told me that, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01But this is such a transformation.
SPEAKER_03Liquid intelligence by Dave Arnold, yeah. It's there for a reason because I want Dave to walk in and see that.
SPEAKER_01Well, Dave will also be uh giving a seminar and hosting a pop up bar and World Martini Day at the Ivory Cont uh at the Ivory. Peacock and uh the place he is involved with now, Contra, is really have you been? Yeah, I've been it's really no, I only went for the first time about three weeks ago, and I was really impressed. We had the food as well. It's like holy shit, man, it's really it's really good. So you have you know partnered with uh Rajesh, you've grown Janun to you know the highest of heights, you know, careers going well. How do you keep challenging yourself?
SPEAKER_03Uh keep pushing myself, innovating new stuff, coming up with new ideas, working alongside Rajes, thinking about new projects. Um we have done many in the last few years. Um side by side, we also do uh consulting for Taj Group of Hotels. We built a program for them called Loya. Uh so by now we already opened Loya in New Delhi, Taj, Loya in Bangalore, Loya in um Bombay, and uh I think coming up, we're also doing a project for uh Married Group in Bangalore for a hotel called Renaissance. They're usually so we're doing a Japanese-Pubian concept for them. I haven't announced that yet, but the world would know about that. Uh so that's upcoming, and uh yeah, room 207 is the baby right now, and uh we just want to you know go on with this. Um my wonderful wife and two kids are keep me uh that will do it, yeah. That will how old are your kids? Uh my son is six year old and my daughter is a little over two.
SPEAKER_01Were they both born here?
SPEAKER_03They're both born here, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Americans, man.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's weird when your kid grows up with a different accent to you. That's true, yeah. And and you learn from them. It really is. I did the project you know about, um, Hardcode Vodka with Dolph Lundgren.
SPEAKER_04Ah, nice.
SPEAKER_01And uh I flew out to LA a few times to train him, and we did the launch as well, and he uh, of course, was born and raised in Sweden. Uh he was a star chemical engineer who was on a scholarship in Australia for a year, and he met the actress and singer and model Grace Jones, and then they moved to New York, and like less than a year later he got the Rocky IV job, and he moved to Los Angeles. So he speaks very Los Angeles, California English. Uh, and he has two uh daughters who are not just beautiful, but they're lovely, really nice uh girls. But they were born in Sweden, they were largely raised in Spain, where you know Dolph lived for about 20 years, and now uh one of them has just moved back to Europe and the other one still lives in Los Angeles. So they speak uh the really British English that Scandinavians speak, they don't sound like their dad. Wow, but it's it's an odd odd one.
SPEAKER_03I can I can imagine like Sweden to wow, that's a big change.
SPEAKER_01It's uh it's a it's a bit of a it's a bit of a situation. So uh Janun, especially now, is what I hope is its forever home, is a gorgeous Indian, fine dining experience. The bar, the restaurant, everywhere. It's remarkable. Uh how would you describe the look and feel and concept of Jasbah?
SPEAKER_03Um Jasba, other hand, is uh uh focusing into um the regional, um uh some of those exclusive um timeless recipes from Indian streets. Uh for example, if I say there is a minced goat kebab, which is called Tunde kebab from Lucknow, been there since the Mughal era's um over 200 years. So we managed to get a cook who worked there for four and a half years, so we thought of just for one day, we brought him here. Wow. So that we wanted to recreate that, you know, recipe here in New York. Um, and that's very popular here called Aminabati Galotti. Uh so thinking about those exclusive timeless recipes uh been around for generations and and years. Um, you know.
SPEAKER_01But I mean, like Junoon is you know elegant, quiet, luxurious. Jaspa is very kind of bright and colorful. Exactly. Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_03Where we um uh wanted to bring adjectives where uh other hand in Junoon we really think about how to elevate in terms of plating and you know, extra global techniques and and creating a multi-course uh more multi-course dinner in terms of tasting menu and whatnot. But here in Jazba, you do have a beautiful family-style a la carte menu where you could order and enjoy whatever way you like.
SPEAKER_01And you've had a ton of like superstars, both international and Indian, come through the doors at Jazpa. Janoon too, obviously, but in Jasba, it's been so recent, huh?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, in the last three years it's been quite a hit, meaning, you know, no complaint.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, it's it's definitely you know, it's been in the gossip pages and you know.
SPEAKER_03We see we see happy faces when they walk out from the door, so it's all about flavors, you know?
SPEAKER_01So those two are clear. How would you explain room 207?
SPEAKER_03Uh the concept came in. Um room 207 used to be the additional dining hall for Jesba. Uh, but we always had we knew that the old the first Booker index started from here. Um so we always wanted to put a bar here uh since the very first day. That was the whole region of you know uh renting this the whole space. Uh but it was so difficult to work with this particular community board and getting two legal lessons at the same time. Uh huh. So we saw a clean business for about a year, year and a half. Then we reapplied and uh you know we managed to get one. And uh being the backside of it had a feel of like you know, putting a beautiful speakeasy, and and believe me or not, meaning uh the speakeasy the word is overly used without knowing the meaning of it. Everybody just put a name, put a word speakeasy in front of uh mostly uh just to you know put the word out speakeasy. But I think we travel uh extra mile uh to understand what should be the whole concept look like, feel like. And I don't know if you feel that way, but you know, putting that swing jazz and live artist versus going back to the recipes which really coming from that Provisan, pre-Roubbison eras and doing exactly naming and calling them the same way.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's a dark, sexy room. You know, it's got beautiful lighting. As you as you get older in the business, you realize that the cocktails actually aren't the most important thing. Exactly. And probably a lot of people say the lighting.
SPEAKER_03The music, the sound is is equally important.
SPEAKER_01What 20 capacity, 24, 25?
SPEAKER_03About 28 seats. Yeah. 28 seats, including the four seats at the bar, which is the best place to sit. Very best place. And as you see, it's the low height, you know, one counter shared by Bartender and the guest. So that was that was uh it's pretty impressive.
SPEAKER_01And what's your tell us a bit about? Obviously, with two young kids, you're not going out uh that much, but what are the bars in New York that are impressing you at the moment?
SPEAKER_03Um every new bar in the city is is of course uh a learning center for me. Um anything and everything happened. So many talented bartenders come from around the world and want to put something in New York, and that is always an inspiration. But places like you know, Dead Rabbit and PDT and you know uh all these classic giants in New York City, which is which is still rocking, and you know, from my days when I arrived here is is a place to look at and and learn from them.
SPEAKER_01Um have you been to Paradise Lost? No, it's not yet um amazing. Yeah, yeah. Well then I won't describe it to you. No, do not leave it.
SPEAKER_03But I will know about it, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01I will just say that the three, in my opinion, most immersive rooms where you absolutely can get away from it, like here, you know, no windows, you create your own world, are probably Bemelman's Bar at the Carlisle. Okay, uh Paradise Lost, and the Sunken Harbor Club above uh Gage and Halmer in Brooklyn. Seems like I need to go to all three. You need to get out more.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like get a babysitter, take the wife out.
SPEAKER_03No, because apart from all these concepts, I also have a restaurant up at the site.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, let's hear about that. Oh, and why are you still so busy? And we have to talk about your hotel as well. No, that completely slipped my mind. Tell me about that.
SPEAKER_03So uh year of 2018, uh I had a little extra time from Junon and I thought of doing something different. And uh wifey was working 9 to 5 and I was doing What was she doing? Uh she was uh she's the uh the physics and math major, so she was working on a c in a company. Um so she she would do like 9 to 5 and I was doing what what did what did she do though? Like she was working in a procurement department for a company called WTEch. Okay. So they do an energy management company. Um it was not working out, meaning uh I would come late in the night, I would sleep late in the morning and see her. Amazed, you guys managed to make two kids. So 2018 I asked her simply, like, hey, what should we do? Uh you know, should we uh you know, would you be happy if you work along me and you know we plan to own a business? So with my friend, I took over an existing restaurant uh called Tandura Wan in Aparis site. And um the restaurant has been there since 1983. Where where is it exactly? A corner of 83rd and 3rd Avenue. That's my neighborhood. Uparis side, yeah. You're in upper west side now.
SPEAKER_01No, east. Oh, you're in a paris, little up there. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, no, that's that's my hood, man.
SPEAKER_01Go ahead. This is interesting.
SPEAKER_03So you took it over. I took it over. Um, you know, I saw when I walked in, uh, it was in a hand of a Bangladeshi family, restaurant was dying, you know, the chairs was like if you touch them, it's sticking and the floor was all messed up. And I thought, you know what, I think this is the challenge, you know. I I want I was ready to accept that. So I I bought it, uh, you know, and with my friend.
SPEAKER_01How had you how had you heard about it?
SPEAKER_03So one of my uh one of the common friends uh between that owner uh and with me, he just asked me if I'm interested. So I just went in and I said, I think the space looks good because Manhattan, the best part is the location. That has to be right, and uh the space has to be nice. Uh everything else you can you know rebuild and whatnot. So I I just looked into the legacy restaurant since 1983, so it has it had its own clients. And it was called what again? Uh Tandour Oven. Yeah. Uh with tea and uh oven. Tandoor oven. So um over 40 years now for that restaurant, and I'm owning for the last what seven years? And uh Rajes, the owner of Junun Jasbah has been very supportive.
SPEAKER_01Uh what did you so you went in there? This by the way is Gary Regan's old neighborhood.
SPEAKER_03Did you know that? No. I when I arrived here, I used to go to his uh uh his house in Hudson. Yes. Um so uh what he had a program, so I went to the um cocktails in the country. Cocktail in the country, yes.
SPEAKER_00But no, here this is this is why this is a very uh incestuous uh industry.
SPEAKER_01Um you probably heard from Gary or read that he used to work at a bar, that he got his start in a bar in America, a place called Drake's Drum on the Upper East Side. I know about that. That's the area of 83rd and Seconds. It's uh specifically, it's where there is now a really great bar called Ethel's. And his boss, see if you can follow this, is my wife's ex-husband's father. Wow. Yeah, I know. So there's a connection, yeah. There's kind of an upper east side theme here. So you you you you go in there, you're like, okay, location works, the space works. Did you change the name? Uh no, I kept the same. I bought the whole thing. I wanted to buy a piece of legacy more than more than the so what did you do?
SPEAKER_03So I I what did I do? I uh I didn't clean up I I did not close the restaurant single sift. I ran it exactly the same way, but made changes overnight. Every night I would ask my contractor to change to one piece of tile, one piece of floor, and this is how we did basic changes. I was still struggling first two, three years was a big struggle. I put all my money in, a lot of loan and whatnot. But uh pandemic hit, post-pandemic, I had extra courage to take a little extra money from Chase and put in another like almost $80,000 to rebuild the restaurant. Right. And design by myself, like, you know, putting the lighting, doing the high ceiling.
SPEAKER_01Right, so you really went for it.
SPEAKER_03Went for it. And then by that time, wifey also had a little bit of experience with me running that business. And then had she worked in hospitality before? No, the first time worked with me. And and she runs it now. Now she runs it. Amazing. So she's busy. So you are complaining about taking the wifey out. I want to stop here because she does not have time for me. I'm just kidding. Seriously.
SPEAKER_01Okay, Vita, I don't know. Uh close restaurant for an eye. I mean, I can't complain. Our kid is no kid is 21. No, no, no. We can take our kid out for now. But that's amazing, man. I will have to uh go go there sometime because I love uh Indian food, as every bartender of my generation and afterwards did, because in London back in the day, uh you couldn't basically get a drink after 11 pm except at a restaurant. So if you finished work at 11 as a bartender, you always wound up in an Indian restaurant.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So everybody like me, Angus Winchester, the late uh Douglas Anchor, we all loved Indian food, and then to come to New York is quite a shock. You always the fuck is this curry? Jesus. I actually order Indian food uh like from Seamless and I put in the comments, Indian spicy, please. I used to live in London. That's the best thing they want to do. No, it really works. It really works. Good, good, good. So we got the Tandor oven. Obviously, we've talked about all these places, but what kind of spurred me to get you on, I've been thinking about having you on the podcast, rage just you've opened an inn a hotel in your hometown. Tell me about that.
SPEAKER_03Dude, you know what? Can I tell you something? Since the very first day, since your first podcast, I was waiting for this call. They say, like, hey, when are you coming on my podcast? Trust me, I'm disorganized. I should have done it. Last Saturday was the best day for me. It's like, oh yeah, I want to have you on my podcast.
SPEAKER_01I said, like, okay, Mr. Duff, here I am. No, you you made you made a great post. So tell us, tell us about all of this. It's really exciting.
SPEAKER_03So um, you know, I came this far living away from from my hometown, my country for the last 15 years. Um But you know, that simplicity and the legacy and the the tradition what I learned from my family and and villagers, I wanted to keep it. Of course, I want to keep it whole my life with me. Um so this particular hotel, which is only 11 rooms, a banquet, uh, tell us garden, and uh a restaurant, the whole idea for for this hotel is of course, business is a part of it. Um you need money to run a business. Oh yeah. But more than that, we wanted to put a legacy up there, uh, not to forget where we come from. So me and my brothers decided to uh you know to go back in my our village uh and uh uh put this concept, uh put this project. So you have an elder brother? I have my elder brother, he worked in merchandise navy as a captain. And any other brothers? Uh no, just two brothers and a sister. Um so sadly working on this project for the last 15 months, and uh now I just went back to open it. What's it called? Uh it's called um Ma, the word Hindi word meaning mother, Kokila Grand Inn. So we come from a place where there is a very big temple. Um, and my ancestors, my uh my great-grandfather, um, came to that village to as a priest for that temple. Um, so we do have a legacy itself uh within the community, and and so we never wanted to forget that. And what's his so mother ma kokila kokila, the the one of the uh uh one of the rupa of uh the uh ma kokila, uh like the goddess. Goddess. So so so we wanted to uh to put as for the for the travelers who come into that that temple, they don't have much uh much luxury or much facilities for in terms of uh lodging and fooding. So we wanted to put something nice so they feel nice.
SPEAKER_01So let's talk about your village a little more. My village is a proper village, Scary's, North County, Dublin, 5,000 people. 5,000 people when I left, it's still only 5,000 people. Wow, that's great. Uh how's what's the size of your village?
SPEAKER_03Uh it's only 30 families. Um Jesus. So my village, there are seven. But again, Indian families are big. So what's that? 300 people? I would say about I would say about roughly about 200 people. That's insane. And then we have you know, neighbors, neighbor villagers. Neighboring villagers. Yeah. So so the whole area, uh, you know, I would say about roughly about exactly about 4,000, 5,000 people.
SPEAKER_01Uh well, in my in my particular uh circle. In my village, we have 12 pubs. How many bars are there in your village? None. Zero? You know. Is is your hotel gonna have the first bar? No, no, no, no, no. This is by the temple, so so no alcohol there.
SPEAKER_03Um so nice food, uh local tradition, cultural.
SPEAKER_01So finally, yet yet again, after almost 20 years, you're using a hotel management degree.
SPEAKER_03Uh I'm I am, yeah. You know what to small or big, you have to uh work around the whole uh the all the four divisions, like housekeeping to front desk. So I'm using that knowledge now. You just don't have the textbooks.
SPEAKER_01Like turns off this what turns out this wasn't bullshit after all.
SPEAKER_03It's working, man. I think I investate uh, you know.
SPEAKER_01Well we're we're lucky, Hamans. As as you have heard uh from I'm sure your many mentors, we are 30 years into the second golden age of cocktails. It started in 1994 in London, and it is going strong. And the first golden age was like also it started in this city in 1840, and it ran all the way until Prohibition started in 1919. So, you know, I have been hugely fortunate, you have been hugely fortunate uh to get in on this.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely indeed, man. Um it's truly a privilege to be a part of it, and uh you know, uh putting that contributions and working around the global bar community, and mostly being in a city called New York. So nothing like that.
SPEAKER_01Well, it really is incredibly difficult and competitive here. So if you make it here, you really can make it most places. Do you think that your very difficult experiences, you know, like being somewhat fucked over by the guy who brought you here, wholesale, that it gave you an appetite for risk?
SPEAKER_03Um so I I always say no risk, no gain. I never fear of uh taking any risk in last 15, 18 years, because every challenge made me more stronger. And now, you know, even in daily operations or overall in my all the concept, any challenges come in front of me. I said like this is peanuts because I have seen bigger than that. Well, you've been hoping. I said, we'll we'll figure it out. Meaning I I don't you know feel agitated and you know so so risk, I love it. More challenges, I think I perform better.
SPEAKER_01So like India is a great country, it's uh now the world's most populous country, but you will have grown up seeing a lot of absolute poverty that you know a lot of people who grow up differently don't see.
SPEAKER_03I agree, 100%. Yep. I still go back and do a lot of things for a good cause and you know how to do a little bit more for the young generation of bartenders in terms of putting seminars up there, going to different schools, not for money, but just to make more friends and sharing a little bit of my international knowledge with them. Because I I put myself in their shoes and say, like, okay, like 15, 20 years ago, like, you know, a small boy from a small town had a big dream, but there was nothing around to push that dream. And whatever has happened, it was you know, with the blessings and and you know, probably I was I am and I was the most benefited bartender within the community itself, winning the first the LG word class, getting to Puerto Rico with Bagadi legacy, and making to a city like New York with the help of Janun and Rajisparadh and whatnot.
SPEAKER_01So I mean there are many stories like yours of people who instantly you know got access to a network of mentors by competing at a high level, and then they moved to New York or London, and increasingly Barcelona and Amsterdam. Yep. Uh what do you say to your young bartenders now? Do you encourage
SPEAKER_03Absolutely. I think that's the best thing you could do in your professional career. Because competence for me gives you a reality check for yourself, and you see yourself among uh many national and international bartenders, and that is the best possible way to learn a little bit more. It's for me, it's more than winning and losing. It's that an experience which you keep with you all your life, and that helps you to grow faster. So go for it. Do what you love and love what you do. You know, this is the best thing ever.
SPEAKER_01By the way, uh people can enter the New York heat of the Pro Sierra Jin cocktail contest. The winner gets to go to Tales of the Cocktail for the finals, and the winner there gets to go to Nairobi in Kenya. So that sounds amazing. Is there still a still time? Can I participate? I think there is still time. I'm helping run. I think you could why not? I would I think in the same way, I love to see I love to go into like Bemelman's and I see Luis there, who's been bartending there for 43 years. I love going in and seeing older ladies and gentlemen bartending, and I love going in and seeing older bartenders compete. I think we really need more of that, and you could be a role model because if your bartender see you doing it, they'll be like, fuck, the old guy's doing it. No, my Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03My no, my um Sahilansong, um the the the best team what I could think about for room to seven, and uh you know, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well we'll we'll we'll encourage them to uh to uh to compete. And obviously, this being New York, particularly at right now, there's so many competitions going on and uh ranging from the tiny ones to I think uh world-class US just chose their champion or they have the final. I can't I think it's mighty I think they have a final. They have uh top 16 now something and they're doing um they're doing the finals again in India, aren't they? No, not this year. Why are they doing the year?
SPEAKER_03Not this year. Because they were gonna be that in Scotland this year.
SPEAKER_01That's it. No, because they were in Scotland last year as well, and they had to move back to Scotland because they had planned this year to do the finals in Dubai. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Which is uh being put on hold at the moment to say things mildly. So much love to all our friends in the bar community in uh Dubai. Through this podcast, I want to request WorldClass to come back to India once again. Yeah, come on, guys. Uh there's 1.4 billion people there. You might as well get a toe hold in the fastest growing alcohol market in the world. And unlike China, Indian people are happy uh to have you there. Exactly. Right? So official uh shout out to everybody at the world-class team, which is headquartered in Amsterdam, actually, at their headquarters there. Uh we've got to get them from that. We'd have to be a part of it. Yeah, we've got to get Heman to judge, do a demo, uh, do some flair, you know, what whatever it might take. So what's the what does your summer look like? Uh are you you're gonna visit BC Brooklyn? You're gonna come to Tales? What's on the agenda?
SPEAKER_03Um for I just came back from India, so three and a half weeks been roller coastal. Um a good journey of opening this hotel, meeting family, friends. Um BCV next, uh doing a few seminars here and there, tasting few.
SPEAKER_01Are you teaching any seminars? No, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_03Any seminars you're excited to attend? Um there are a few, and I got many invitations for many after parties and are you in any are you in any of the WhatsApp groups?
SPEAKER_01Because they are insane. I'm not oh no, they're insane. Send send me the best of one. Uh it's called don't it's called Don't Pee in BCB. It comes alive this time every year, and everyone drops their if somebody kept a spreadsheet. Um, for our foreign listeners, uh, I might be one of the very few people who's been to every single BC Berlin ever since day one. And the organizers uh asked my advice once. They knew me, and we wrote Tells the Cocktail, and we went to a quiet little bar, and they said, Well, we want to come and do it in America. And I said, Well, look, if you want the same vibe as Berlin, you have to do it in Brooklyn. That's it. And they said, Great. Um and the first year was not busy. And I was like, maybe the problem is Brooklyn and New York are so expensive, whereas Berlin is cheap, it's cheap for hotels, cheaper bar. Um, and I felt bad for them. Really, I know it sounds stupid now. Now, BC Brooklyn is a resounding success. Yeah, and for the week that it happens, which is only two days, Brooklyn and Manhattan feel like New Orleans during tales. Every single bar is doing a guest shift, a takeover, a pop-up, a this, a that.
SPEAKER_03No, amazing. Meaning, um, I witnessed BCB Brooklyn for the last few years, and I've been on the ground uh working with different brands, um, and and it's it's it's it's the best thing for New York bartenders, you know? It really is. Without traveling out of the city and you have everybody coming into your home and you're doing this is why we pay rent in this fucking city, man.
SPEAKER_01It's expensive, but if you if you take advantage of it, right, you you really get the benefit. I myself will be teaching a seminar, or rather, I'm the MC uh for uh I think it's a really interesting topic. I've been going to Australia for over 25 years now. Me and Angus Winchester always make the joke that we discovered Australia because we would go there, him to teach about tank array and me for different clients, and go around the bars like and say, holy fucking shit! Like it's a country where a truck driver will hand you back a cappuccino if the foam is not thick enough. And the mixology is amazing. Per capita, it's the best in the world, and people just didn't know. So this seminar is about the Australian bar scene and why it kicks ours, because most people haven't heard of it, they haven't been. So we have Ryan Gavin, who actually used to be the group bar director for the group that Lyndon Pride of Dante used to work for in Australia. Uh, we have Brendan Barclay from Hello Hello Bar Cafe and Bathtub Gin. He's actually got a PhD, believe it or not. Oh, didn't he? Yeah, uh, but he's the general manager and bar manager of those places. And uh Jenna Hemsworth, who has worked at every uh hot bar in Australia, literally, and was the first female Australian to win legacy, uh Bacardi Legacy, so it's something you guys uh kind of have in common. Uh and we'll they'll be I know my friend Tim Philip. Yeah. We're competing together 2011. No way. Well Jenna will be here. I know she'd love to see it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And uh they'll each talk about a different era of Australian mixology from the beginnings about 1999 right up until uh now. Amazing. I will serve people a couple of cocktails.
SPEAKER_03I would I would definitely go for their seminar now.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That'll be on Tuesday. Tuesday the 9th, 2.15 p.m. in Liquid Lounge B, building five, second floor. There we go. You need that, because again, if you've haven't been to BC Brooklyn, they basically hold it in a maze, right? It is so hard to find your s your way around Industry City, but if you do, if you do, yeah, it's very uh it took it took me a couple of years to understand, like you know, that door from this side to that side.
SPEAKER_03Now I understand building A, B, C.
SPEAKER_01So that's Yeah, no, I always have to remember, wait a sec, where's the water? Yeah. Yeah. If you could I want you to recommend some books now for listeners. If you uh could talk to a young Heman, somebody who's developing an interest in bars back in some rural part of uh of uh India or indeed anywhere, what do you think, what book do you think they should start with? Heman's incidentally has just gone across the room and picked up a book.
SPEAKER_03I just want to bring it in front of you. I have it here. Said hey, baby! Then hey, Vintage Streets and Fogged and Cocktails. Uh, this book taught me a lot, as you can see. I can see it's almost uh one of them was signed for me. Um so I learned a lot from this book. I still, you know, use it for my uh 207 cocktail program. Um apart from that, you know, we have Jim Mahan's The Bartender's Manual.
SPEAKER_01I I think that's a very good all-in-one book. All in one book's manual.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Any new Bartender, that's the book.
SPEAKER_01I I sent that to Jim. Yeah, very impressed. Not only for cocktails, but overall everything management, personal development.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I have to agree. And my favorite volume second, Joy Mixology, that was signed by uh Sir Gary and sent it to my address uh because I was the Hall of Fame member for the Aji World class.
SPEAKER_01So nice. I had a privilege to receive that. Um Joy Mixology, uh, for people who haven't read it, it is amazing in that he comes up with a really good what Audrey Saunders called the Gui Decimal system for classifying cocktails into families, and it works.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and you know how to bring science into mixology, that liquid intelligence. Liquid intelligence is amazing.
SPEAKER_01And uh when you read the book, it's like listening to Dave.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, exactly. And the one more, one of more. Um The The Punch Book. Yes, yep, that's again my collection there.
SPEAKER_01Well, all of the books are many. Have you seen Dave Wondrich's latest book, The Comic Book History of the Cocktail? No, honestly incredible. He showed me uh uh he they gave him one ad advanced copy last summer, and I was having a drink with him at his house, and he pulled it out. It looks beautiful, right? It looks like a graphic novel. But if you actually read it comic, yeah, it really is a comic book, yeah. But if you read it, it's full of a ton of new fucking research. So we uh recommend how that everybody get the comic book uh history of the cocktail. And the interesting thing is I had a copy and I brought it into my local bar, which is a small local bar uh on the Upper East Side, and people know more or less what I do, but they're not in their world, they're doctors and nurses and whatever they are. And I pulled it out, and everyone said, Oh, can I see that? And they wanted to pass it around. It appealed to people in a way that you know a regular book doesn't maybe as much. It's an incredible book. We at the Philip Duff Show highly recommend all the books that Helmut just mentioned, uh, and the comic book History of the Cocktail by uh Professor David Wenders. Well, listen, how about we have that finger stirred a crony? That will be let's do it. That will take a photo. We know we almost never do this. I usually just Google the name of my uh podcast guest. We'll take a photo of you finger stirring a grony, and that will be uh what goes on the cover. And you send that to your parents, and then they'll properly be proud. They'll call you and be like, hey man, we never thought you'd get on the Phil Duff show. Let's before we go tell the people where they can find you online on social media, spell it out, and also Janune, Jasper, and Room 207. Um thank you, everyone.
SPEAKER_03Thank you so much for listening. Um Philip, you've been amazing. Thank you so much for all your love and support over the years, you know, not only in New York City, but your gesture um supporting me while I remember I was in um Scotland uh and uh you we were in a common room uh for some events and you were uh giving me advice, okay. Uh you were making me feel comfortable being in a different city, different country. And so like, okay, you want to go to this Indian restaurant, whatnot? And that was my answer, like, I'm not I'm not here to eat Indian food. But you've always been very supportive and so kind. Uh thank you everyone for listening. And uh um once again, my name is Heyman Partak. You can find me either at Junun Jezba or now I hide in room 207. Uh, this is my comfort. Um, so I do all my pep talks around, but I spend most of my time with my boys here with silent song. Um my simple website, Heymanpartak.com, um, and my Instagram, Heymant H E M A N T N Y C stand for New York City. So Heymant NYC, very simple. Uh and that's all across. Uh and yeah, please stop by at room two seven, and wait. Thank you.