Dominance

Introduction
Welcome to Full Cow, a podcast about leather and kink where your host, Edge (he/him), shares his 30+ years of experience in the community. For this episode we're going to think about dominance.

In the first segment, Edge tells the story of the boy who changed his life. Then, in the second segment, Edge offers his philosophy of dominance, with a focus on matter. Finally we talk with Ms. Kitty who shares her own insights on healthy dominance. 

Transcript

Edge : 0:05

Let's talk about dominance. This podcast contains material intended for a mature audience. Before proceeding, please check your local laws and confirm that you are an adult. Welcome to full cow, a podcast about leather kink and BDSM. My name is edge My pronouns are he him, and I will be your host. Thank you, as always for joining me yet again for another episode. And this time we will be discussing dominance. In the first segment, I'll tell you the story of the boy who changed my life. Then in the second segment, I'll share with you my ideas and philosophies around dominance. Finally, we're going to have a conversation with Miss Kitty, who brings a really brilliant approach to dominance, and a very healthy way. I think it's a pretty fantastic episode, and I do hope you'll enjoy it. So let's get started. This, this is the story of the boy who changed my life. If you're a regular listener to this podcast, and across the episodes, you may have already assembled a sort of chronology of my leather journey. I started off as a bondage bottom, I loved getting tied up. And because no one ever told me there was a difference between bottoming and submitting, I thought I was a boy. And that was a category I occupied for about a decade. And it was wonderful, I had some amazing experiences, experiences that other people would really wish to have. I was able to live out extraordinary fantasies, and it was a good time. But things started shifting around the turn of the millennium. And in part that was because I was finding it increasingly difficult to locate tops, who could take me where I needed to go and bring me to new experiences or to the peak experiences that I had had before. And at the same time, men started approaching me online, and calling me sir. And that was something I resisted for a little bit, but only for a little bit. Eventually, I made the somewhat difficult transition into sir. And I remember in particular how uncomfortable it felt when I moved my keys from the right to the left. But move them I did. And I have been occupying the category of Sir, for about two decades now. And it's you know, it's been really challenging for me for most of that time. Because there have been so many occasions when I felt inauthentic. When I felt like I didn't know what I was doing. And when I felt like I was just playing, playing a role playing along, pretending to be something that I wasn't sure I was. And I don't want to dismiss all of my two decades of experience as a Sir, there have been really amazing times with amazing men. But many of them, I felt I was being a service top. And a service top is a perfectly legitimate position in our community and an important one. And I just when someone does something to someone because they know they need it. Oh, you really need to be tied up, I will tell you up. I'm not going to get that much out of it. Because I am not feeling that. But I want to make sure you have this experience because I know what's important to you. And that is perfectly wonderful and legitimate and valid. And I celebrate that. There were also times when I was a cherry popper. Oh, you've you've never experienced a gas mask. Oh, here's a gas mask. Oh, you want to try hoods? Here, let me let you try this hood. And that's also a very important function. It's part of the greeter function of a way we welcome people into the community. And that was wonderful too. But more often than not, I would be in the middle of a scene. And in my head, I would be thinking, I don't know what I'm doing. And not that I didn't know the skills. It's not that I didn't have the experience. It was more that I didn't know where to go in the scene. And in part that was because the man I was playing with just wanted to follow me, but what I really wanted was some direction of where to go. And so there was often this mismatch that made me feel pretty fake. I have to say pretty fake. And and that's, you know, Even though I had some amazing scenes with people who turned me on so much when they were submitting to me, even though I had those peak experiences where I felt truly like a sir, my overall impression of the past couple of decades, is that I'm not quite sure who I was in that context, I didn't feel fully and authentically, like a dominant person. And there were periods where I really got off on the intoxicating power of dominance. There were times when I wanted to be treated like a god, I wanted you to literally be on your knees praying to me. And those were wonderful experiences too. But I don't know that they were the best for my development as a dominant person. And again, if you'd like being treated like a god, that is perfectly legitimate, I know tons of leather people who would do nothing more than worship a leather God, right, that is perfectly fine. But I think for me, in part because of I have the disease of addiction, things that are intoxicating, are not necessarily good for me. And I think also that at that point, in my time, in my experience in my journey, dominance felt very ego based. And I wanted you to feed my power, and I want you to feed my ego. And I wanted it to be about me. And while I want to acknowledge that's perfectly legitimate, that's not what I think about dominance today. And a lot of that has shifted from the work I've done on Twitter, these sort of Twitter educational videos, in which I really discovered that I come from much more a place of loving dominance. In any case, that's sort of my last sort of 30 plus years of experience, I started on the bottom, I transitioned to the top. It was a difficult transition, I made it, but I never truly felt authentic, consistently authentic, as a sir, until I met the boy. So I was going to another event I had that listed on my recon profile, and men were hitting me up in advance of the event as men are want to do. And this boy approached me and we had met briefly years ago, and we were Facebook friends. So it's not like I didn't know him. I remembered him. And I was happy to hear from him. And you know what, he was really good. In his approach, the way he approached me on recon, really turned me on, and we exchanged a couple of messages. And even at that point, even after a few messages being exchanged, I remember telling him that he was calling forth something in me. And this, I think I want to pause and really meditate on this, that there are certain people dominance or submissives, who in your interactions with them, tug at your core, and you might physically viscerally feel it in your gut, it might just be a sense that someone is plucking your soul or there's a resonance. But those are I have found incredibly important moments to pay attention to, they are the very best gut feelings possible. And so from our very first recon encounter, this boy was tugging at my core calling for something. And we continued our flirtation in advance of the event. And at the event we were able to meet and it was really wonderful. It's not like we were able to spend a lot of time together. It was an hour here an hour there because I'm at the event he's at the event, we have commitments, but when we could get together we could. And I remember, I was like, Hey, I'm gonna go have a cigar. Come sit at my boots, and just having him sit at my boots I felt. I'm not gonna say complete, because I don't think I felt incomplete before. But I felt larger. I felt bigger. Somehow I felt more me just having him sit at my boots. While I enjoyed a cigar. I never in my life realized I was missing a boy at my boots until this boy sat at my boots. So by the end of that event, it was very clear that there was a very strong connection that we both wanted to explore. And we continued after the event to stay in touch chatted through text quite a bit developing that dynamic until he was able to visit me actually several months later. And the visit was simply amazing. I did things to him that I never thought I could enjoy so much. I could not hurt him enough. I could not control him enough. I could not use him enough. There were times where I had a Zoom meeting, I put him in a straitjacket just sort of for storage. And I was going to pay attention to my Zoom meeting. And I couldn't, I had to turn off the camera because I couldn't stop using this boy. I was just so delighting. And by the end of that visit, I realized that he had somehow unlocked a door inside of me to a true, authentic dominance that I never knew I had, he changed my life by opening up a new, incredible authentic pathway for my entire sexual life. By the time he left that visit, it's not that I knew I wanted a boy, I suddenly knew I would have a boy, I have never been granted such clarity about what I want, who I want, what I expected them, what I'm going to do to them all, because of my encounter with this boy, he revealed within me a true dominance that I didn't know was there a loving dominance that I now treasure, and that I now know, will most find expression with a boy to call my own. We continue to stay in touch. Honestly, I would be thrilled if I could call her him. But there are some extraordinary logistical issues on both of our ends, that make that complicated in the short term. But for today, and I'm recording this on May 14 2022. For today, I still very much want to call her this boy. More broadly, I want to call her a boy. And I know what I want to do with him. And I know what to expect from him. I've spent a lot of time thinking about the boy who changed my life. Because you know, it was really quite terrifying after he left from that visit, because suddenly I had this awakening of who and what I was, and I thought, fuck, what if it's only him? And I'm not able to call her him? What if he's unlocked this only him. And I'm not going to be able to get what I want, how fucking miserable will I be in my life. I decided instead that while he is extraordinarily special, he's probably not unique, that if he exists, there are probably other boys that are like him. And I spent a lot of time reflecting about the qualities he had, that really activated that dominance and wouldn't be so that I could try to find a boy like him. In case I can't get him. I remember most of all the look in his eyes, there was such hunger and need to serve. Because it was something he had not really been able to do for a while. And there was a beautiful mixture of all and desire and fear. I could see it all in his eyes. And it turned me on so much. It's so activated this dominance in me. I loved that he was very agile, we could be talking one moment, and I could be choking him the next. And he was right there with me. I loved that his submission had an extraordinary breath, that he was just as happy doing some chores for me as he would be when I was beating him. And I loved that his submission had extraordinary depth, that I could beat him so hard that he came to a point where he almost dissolved into submission that was really beautiful to watch. And that's where I'm at today, looking for other boys with that look in their eyes. With that same breadth and depth of submission. I am looking for other boys who call to that part of me, that is so true and so powerful and potent. And that search is not over as of May 14 2022. So let's think about some of the takeaways you might get from this segment. First, I want to acknowledge that there are many different ways to be a top or a dominant top, that being a service top, which is really about doing for others what they really need is beautiful and authentic. That being a sort of cherry popper is also an important function of the community because it brings more people into the community by providing them initial experiences and being the sort of ego centered leather God top that is also an extraordinarily eccentric experience. See, that resonates with a particular subset of peoples in a way that they cannot connect in any other way, but to that leather God, to that depth of sort of degrading but beautiful submission. And finally, I want to say that all of you, I hope you encounter someone who plucks at your core, whether that's the mistress or master or handler that you've been looking for, or the submissive person you've been seeking, I hope you have that encounter, where you feel something tugging at your soul. And I hope you're able to follow it. Because for me, it led to a new pathway for my mother journey that feels truer, it feels more real, it feels more fulfilling than almost all of the journey I've had so far. That boy, changed my life. And so I'm wishing for you that encounter with the dominant or submissive person who will change your life by opening the door inside of you, and revealing the pathway that you can walk. In the episode on submission, I talked about submission as a psycho spatial orientation. It is a literal, turning to the submissive person turns to the dominant person, both within the interior mental landscape, and in the physical world. Dominance instead, is matter. And I mean that in a number of ways. First of all, I mean that what the dominant says matters, it's important, the lessons, the instructions, the orders, they matter. Also, what the dominant wants, matters, their desires, their direction for the scene, their fetishes. And so it begins with this importance. It is a substance of importance, it is matter. And I also think it's a little bit akin to dark matter. You know, physicists believe that a large portion of the universe is made up of a substance called dark matter. And one of the definitions of dark matter is that it cannot be detected by luminosity, but only by its gravitational pull, which means you can't see it, but you can feel it. In a similar way, the submissive person is pulled to the dominant person, the dominant person has a weight Ignis in their matter, that acts as a kind of gravitational pole, which draws the submissive person that wait. hiddenness is also about groundedness. So the dominant person is, as the Brits might say, sorted, you know, they're stable, they are grounded and they have their feet or their boots on the ground. But that weightiness also means the dominant can hold ground, it means they're not a pushover. And it also means that they can open a space and protect that space that their weight Ignis provides an anchor that keeps the space centered, and safe. This whole notion of gravitational pull is extraordinarily related to the word gravi toss, which is about a weighty serious matter. That dominant peoples have a gravitas, they have a way of moving through the world, a certain comportment and way of carrying themselves that reflects their dominant matter. Now, of course, all of this is only activated in the context of power dynamics. Sure, the dominant person has this matter, this substance, this weight, adness, this gravitational pull this gravity toss, they have it at all times. But you know, just walking through the grocery store, and they're not necessarily drawing shopping carts behind them. They're not pulling all things towards them. They're pulling the things that are kind of attuned to that particular matter. And that is generally submissive people. In terms of how dominance operates, you know, I used to say, and this may be extraordinarily made up, but this is what my head tells me is true, that Joseph being who was an is an incredibly important leader in our community, that Joseph bean once said, The job of the dominant person was to seduce the consent of the submissive person, moment to moment. And I've always loved that idea that I need to create the context where that submissive person wants to submit to me, me Minute to Minute. And if I fuck it up, they're not going to want to submit to me anymore and the scene ends, and I may never get to play with them again. So it's about seducing consent. And I think that notion of seduction is particularly romantic in this context, because it's a kind of loving seduction, a very romantic one, to get that consent moment to moment to keep the scene operating. More recently, though, I've evolved my notion of how dominance operates or what the dominant person's job is. Now, I strongly believe that the job of the dominant person is to make the submissive person feel safe, moment to moment, they should feel safe. And there are a number of reasons for this. First, there has to be a level of emotional safety, because the submissive person is going to be revealing, really, very vulnerable part of themselves their submission. And they need to know that it's safe emotionally, to let that out. At the same time, the job of the dominant person is to guarantee the physical safety of the submissive person. And this means having the basic skills and experiences to make sure that the activities undertaken are undertaken with a minimized risk that the dominant person does their very best to keep the submissive person safe in the context of the scene. But I also think that this notion of safety is about a spatial safety, because remember that submission has a psycho spatial orientation. And that spatial safety means that the spaces that the dominant person creates, have safety built in. And I think about that, say in the context of the bar, if I'm at the bar with a boy, then I make sure that the space we're in is safe. And that means no one is going to approach him inappropriately, no one is going to touch him inappropriately. And I do my best to make sure that happens. And if it's violated, if the spatial safety is violated, I take action, whether that means speaking to the person, or removing the boy from the space into a place that spit safer. It's also very critical to create spatial safety in particularly in the context of play. And that means that for example, for me, I make sure my cat is not about to run into the playroom. When I'm beating someone in other contexts, perhaps you have a roommate, it means that you make sure the roommates not going to come home, that you make sure that the space in which you're playing is not going to be disrupted, or disturbed, because that's part of the spatial safety. Now, the spatial safety is a critical component in making the place feel emotionally safe. Just as your skills are important in making it feel physically safe. I do also think there are different origin points for dominance, that are radically different. But also equally legitimate. There is a way of approaching dominance from ego, where it's about the dominant person, and all about the dominant person. And it's about the intoxication of power. And this is, as I shared in the last segment, one of the ways in which I operated in dominance, that I wanted to be treated like a god, I wanted to be worshipped. I wanted you to pray to Me, I wanted you to be willing to do anything to make me happy, because I was your God, I created the center point, that dark matter became so condensed, the gravitational pull pulled in the energy from the submissive person pulled in their desires, pulled in their thoughts, made them orbit me through my own gravitational pull. And I think, you know, I don't know how common that is. I know that, you know, I go by Edge quite a bit. So I want to say that this notion of the leather godness the extremely ego based dominance, I want to say that that is rarer. I really want to believe that in part because I have so radically shifted where my dominance comes from. I want to say it's pretty rare and it requires a rare person on both sides. There are very particular submissives that desire that because it tends to be a very self effacing degrading and a beautiful way, not humiliating, but kind of grading kind of submission to offer everything up to a God. And so it's a radical extreme power exchange. I don't mean Extreme in the way that master and slave is extreme master and slave has a pretty TPE total power exchange. But I mean, it is extreme in that the power generated is extremely intense. And then that can be very intoxicating for both parties. For me as the dominant person in these ego based scenes, I get a rush from having all that power. And the submissive is getting a rush as well, from the participation of the power exchange and from seeing my power grow, and therefore wanting to feed it more, it can become a beautifully perverse, self sustaining reaction. All that's legitimate, ego based dominance, completely legitimate. It feels to me at this stage of my journey, like exactly what I don't want, because what I've discovered instead, is loving dominance. dominance that comes from a place of radical love, that I accept the submissive exactly as they are, I will say you're a faggot. And that's fantastic. Because you were put on this earth, to serve other men. And that's wonderful, I can give your existence meaning through your service to me. That's fantastic, right? Loving dominance also means that I foster the development of my submissive by providing them challenges that will help them grow, by helping them work through limits, by helping them work through the motions that they encounter. And it also means letting them know that I do love them. And that the things I'm doing if I am beating them, or I'm pissing on them, or I'm cutting them, that these are not abusive actions, but actions of love in the service of helping them fulfill their fullest, most authentic selves. And in doing that, I get to fulfill my fullest, most authentic self. Now, I don't presume to pretend even for a moment, that these are the only two center points for dominance, either ego or love. I don't believe in binaries. And I am only ever in this podcast speaking from my experience. So there are probably any number of center points. And certainly, what seems like this binary choice between ego or love is actually a spectrum where you can land anywhere on that spectrum quite legitimately. I do think, however, that we should address the notion of bad dominance. You know, I encounter so many boys who have had really poor experiences, and who talk about the number of people who are really bad at being dominant. And I don't blame those dominant people. As a community, we have utterly failed to provide coherent, effective mentoring for people who want to be dominant. And I have to imagine, where are they learning what to do? Probably porn, probably stories on the Internet. And I'm not sure that those are extraordinarily useful, or extraordinarily effective, and providing them training in what their dominance is, or how to express it. I'm not even even entirely sure that if you were to really press them whether or not they're truly dominant people, they may simply be assuming that to be in leather, you have to be one or the other. And they like to fuck, so obviously, they're a dominant person. I think we have done such a poor job at welcoming in people who think they're dominant, and helping them discover what that means for them. So although I want to look at, you know, where do we send our dominance, it's ego, it's love. It's something I something else, something I don't know about, where's the spectrum, you can be anywhere on it, there is certainly a place outside of this, where the dominance is not doing the job, right. They are not creating safe spaces. They are not seducing consent, moment to moment, but they're doing the best they can with the knowledge they've been given. And I'm sure there are some actual bad actors out there that as a community, we should sort of police. But in general, I think they're doing the best they can with the knowledge they've been given. And I'm hoping maybe some of them will stumble upon this podcast. And maybe it will invite them to really query their dominance to really look at it and think about, where do I center it? How do I act? What role should my ego play? How do I express love? How do I create safety? I hope that this is an act of broad spectrum, mentorship, and I don't know who it's going to reach, but I'm hoping it reaches someone because, you know, we really need some note good dominant people out there, but they're not could appear, they're not going to show up if we don't teach them. And not just how to flog not just how to tie, not just how to smoke a cigar, but how to tap in to their matter, which is their dominance in ways that are healthy and productive for them, and for the submissive people they encounter. But I think the big takeaways from this segment are, first of all, to think about the heavy weighted Miss of dominance, and to really occupy that matter, to really own the matter, and to deploy it in ways that are useful to everyone who's involved. And then to think about where you want to center your dominance, and what you attract based on where you center, because it will differ. But it will also differ in really wonderful and revealing ways that will help you learn more about your dominance, and what you want it to be. I do think that whether or not you're coming from ego or love, you still want to either seduce consent moment to moment, or perhaps even more importantly, create that context and that feeling of safety throughout the scene so that the submissive person can be emotionally physically vulnerable, and a space that feels perfectly protected. And I think that is the path to really developing your dominance. Obviously, I'm talking very abstractly about dominance itself. But let's also keep in mind that dominance is not an identity position, it is an energy or in this case, a matter that gets attached to different identities dominant daddy dominant top dominant master. So I'm really only talking about the larger operations of the power dynamic. The other missing part is the set of skills and the set of scripts that come with different kink identities. So however, you actually physically express your dominance, I do hope you might reflect on the dominance itself and what it means to you, where it comes from, where you center it, and how you deploy it. And I hope that that exploration is really fulfilling for you. And I am here with Miss Kitty, Miss Kitty, welcome to full cow.

Unknown: 32:25

Hi, thank you. I'm thrilled to be here. Wonderful. Can

Edge : 32:29

you get started by telling us your pronouns and how you identify in the community?

Unknown: 32:33

Sure, um, Kitty or Miss Kitty, either is fine pronouns are she they? And I typically identify as a dominant in the community. And that is not all there is to me.

Edge : 32:47

That's a great answer. It's not all there is to any of us, right? But since this is an episode about dominance, can you tell us a little bit about your journey into dominance and sort of how you discovered that in yourself and how you came to claim it as your own?

Unknown: 33:02

Sure. Part of it is that I got into the world, well, I got into kink. Then that morphed into leather. But while I was getting into kink, I always I was also doing some professional work as an escort. And it was just safer to explore that world as a dominant. And so you know, I just started carrying a bag with a bunch of stuff in it and just started playing and practicing and looking for people in community to mentor me. And I just couldn't find anyone like, that was a long time ago, when people were still, you know, coming up in a way of really hardcore looking for someone to mentor under, even if you don't think you were ever going to be submissive, and so on. But I could never find somebody really to mentor under and it just, I had some scenes where I realized and I was also a statist, and then I was, was active in my leather community in Dallas, where I saw this man and boy, interact, and I was just like, Haha, that's hot. I want that. So that was the icing on the cake that was like, Yeah, I do that.

Edge : 34:18

That's fantastic. And I love that you pointed out, really the continued problem of finding mentorship for people who are either on the submissive side of the spectrum or the dominant side of the spectrum, like, as a community, I don't know that we have very good structures for mentorship. What is your experience been now that you're sort of in this position in mentoring others? Or how do you see the community addressing that problem?

Unknown: 34:41

I think it's all it's always a question. It's, it's been a question all you know, and so organized groups have tried to set up mentor programs, and people talk about it a lot. I think that it's best when it happens organically. And I think that the issue come Then when you start to have an organized group, now you've got folks that it's, it's really hard to screen for ego in our community. And so, you know, it's, it's really challenging. And I so I think that's why mentorship programs never really take off is because the people that are the most likely to dedicate that kind of time are not necessarily doing it. for the sole purpose of, you know, what they can give a lot of it is what they can get out of it, and what their, what that would mean for their stature in the community. So I think it's best left to being organic, it's part of how I, why I organize in the community, the way that the way that I do. A few years back, I did a an event called Primal leather. And it was it was a one day event and it was structured so that people really had an opportunity to get to know one another. And, and then, and then had a play party, which in in our community in South Florida was really people didn't really know what that what that was to have a mixed gender play party, you know, focused on SM play. And so I just really think that yeah, those things are best done organically. And it takes some effort to do that.

Edge : 36:18

Yeah, I love that you're stressing the organic, because I think that's been my experience, too. Because a lot of times, it's about the connection you have with someone when you encounter them and your real desire to help them grow. I also love that you're pointing out that there are if you're not happy with the mentorship in your community, do something about it, you know, make an event where people are really able to interact with sort of the egos on the outside of the door to sort of make those connections, because community doesn't happen if we don't build spaces for it.

Unknown: 36:46

Absolutely. And that's I've been working on this for a long time in our community here in South Florida. And it's it's nice to see things happening.

Edge : 36:56

So can you tell us your philosophy of dominance? Or, you know, what are your guiding principles? Or what does dominance mean to you?

Unknown: 37:05

It's really interesting, because I think it's it's incumbent upon both parties to be super self aware, which is, you know, it's a process, it's never perfection. And it's a conscious effort to be intentional about those things, right. So that's really what counts is to be intentional about being self aware, and integrating new knowledge. As as it comes to you and you come to it, which means as an S type, you have to be really transparent. But I think as a D type, it also requires a certain level of transparency. And so for me, the first level of, of being a dominant is that self mastery we work on to know ourselves to know our own limitations, it's important that you know, to respond, not react, and you have another human being that you are, that you are charged with their well being. And I fully fully believe that the color is not an abdication of responsibility, you have an autonomous human being in front of you, right? And you're you're taking on as a dominant, you're taking on a particular role, which I don't really see as protection, but that nurturing, growing, you know, feeding in a certain way. And so knowing your own limitations and what you want to do not just, I call it the quantum physics, a DS, not just doing the thing because it makes your submissive happy. Or, you know, it's, you know, so really understanding who you are, I think is the first step to that dominance.

Edge : 38:39

I think that's a great point. Because I do feel like when you feel whole in yourself, that is that is so sexy to other people, because a lot of them aren't

Unknown: 38:51

most feeling whole, I think, honestly, it's that feeling like you're a dominant whether you have anybody in your charge or not.

Edge : 39:00

Yeah, that really developing that sense of self. But also, I mean, you've pointed out that this isn't necessarily an ego based thing, right? It's about the sort of healthy self esteem versus ego. Can you say a little bit about because, you know, dominance does kind of point us in the direction of ego. Can you talk about where you've seen that happen or how you've tried to resist that in your own practice?

Unknown: 39:23

Oh, I see that happen a lot in community I and I, I call those folks that kind of struck about as like the Donnelly Dom's or the order of the fancy hat, grand Lord High poopy pants, you know, it's it's people who, who think that they are above all because they are a dominant or that had been kinky or, or leather or DS is inherently a makes you a better person. Right? There are often going to be the folks that think that leather is about honor and integrity. Be. And while that is certainly an integral part of it, I think that's baseline for being a human being. Right. So if you so like, that's kind of, to me, you kind of have that already. And then then leather kink. SM gives you an opportunity to explore more personal growth. And so that kind of leads me to the second point about being a dominant. And this is sometimes very unpopular, among other dominance is that I think there's, there's that strength and transparency, and a lot. And that's the ego check too, right? Are you are you able to communicate with your submissive when there's something wrong or when you're struggling? Or you know, when you need space, or any of these things that may result in them feeling hurt in some way, because they will take that personally, because that's just the nature of the you know, that relationship, but they can't help you know, that. And so they'll feel like they're failing in some way. And you still have to be strong enough to withstand that feeling. And to be able to say, what's really going on for you in certain ways to be transparent? So I Yeah, kind of flipped, being dominant on its head sometimes.

Edge : 41:10

Because the truth is that dominant people can cry. It's okay.

Unknown: 41:13

Yes. Yeah. They cry, they dance, they need space.

Edge : 41:20

Yeah. I mean, what you also made me think about is that even a kinky relationship is first and foremost a relationship. So being able to have that transparency allows for mutual support and communication, which is going to make any relationship work.

Unknown: 41:36

Absolutely. And, and coming to it from those, those DS roles, that means we bring our own special brand of nurturing and care.

Edge : 41:45

That's a really brilliant point that I hadn't thought of before that, that there's a particular energy we bring, that enhances the whole dynamic and enhances the nurturing from both sides, because submissives are certainly very nurturing. You know, they like to take care of us, but but we are also nurturing and protective. And I've never thought about it as a sort of yin yang energy, can you say a little bit more about that?

Unknown: 42:08

I call it the quantum physics of ds. And it is really, to me, it's, it's, it's a, on one level, it's an authority exchange, because someone is giving the authority for, you know, for the dominant to take charge over certain parts of whatever it is their lives, you know, that they that they consent to, right. And so yeah, it creates this feedback loop. And so I think, again, it's that goes back to that dominance being self mastery, because it can get to be like this very strange situation, that gets very backwards. And I think if you are stepping outside of hardcore sort of master slave relation, like dynamic, but even still, it can, it can be, I think, a very, very interesting power dynamic, if you're not really structured in certain ways, like so having rituals, certain, you know, using certain language, those types of things to, to keep the dynamic in place while you're engaging, to make sure you don't slide into this sort of mush.

Edge : 43:21

Actually, I'm glad you're talking about this, because, you know, I'm currently, as we're recording this in June, June 5 2022. I'm currently single, and I am looking for both a partner and a boy. And I don't know that I know how to have them be the same person, because I'm exactly afraid. Because I'm such a crazy romantic, if my partner is my boy, right, like that's going to slide and I will lose that special energy at the DS. So for me at this stage of my life, it's easier to have that as a secondary relationship, just because I can keep those boundaries clear, but I love that you're offering the promise that you can have at all, essentially?

Unknown: 43:56

I think so. And it Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's, it's fair to want that. It's and I think it's a really good self awareness to for you, I think to understand that that's, it's just easier not to do it that way. And, you know, and being in an ethically non monogamous structure brings its own challenges, right. So inviting those additional relationships creates its own, you know, its own dynamics and how to navigate that. So, yeah, whatever. I think that I don't think there's an easier way. You know, it's just, it goes back again to that knowing yourself and what you kind of cannot do,

Edge : 44:39

but you're also stressing that, or what I'm hearing you stress is that it does take work to keep that dynamic alive in the context of a relationship.

Unknown: 44:49

Absolutely, absolutely. And especially, and it does get tricky when you are when you have multiple facets to one relationship and multiple dynamics and So that communication is really important. And, and that's where part of the trans, that transparency comes in from the dominant side as well. And I'm not one of those people who believes in stepping outside of role to have a conversation. I really, I really don't, I think if you're, if you are coming to the table as a whole person, then your submissive should be able to speak as a whole person. Right? And, and that is not something. I mean, whatever works for people, no judgment, right, just for myself. To me, that is a more integrated life. And to be able to say to your, your partner, boys, submissive, girl, pet, whomever I'm feeling things are a little off balance. And I feel like we need to maybe engage for an entire weekend, you know, with you in the cage, and watch them Oh, no, threaten me with a good time, right? That's exactly. So it's really incumbent upon the dominant. And I think as dominance, we rely too much sometimes on the submissive to keep that up and to and for their desire. You know, as somebody who's a switch, it's always easier for my imagination to run wild as the S type. And I'm not really a submissive, I'm a I'm a bratty, good girl. And so yeah, that's a whole that's a whole thing. And that's kind of a new thing for me to be exploring after, you know, 25 years in this life. It's really super fun and Picky picky. So. But anyway, but yeah, I think that it's, we do rely too much on the submissive for their, for their desire to push that forward. Right? And, and that's where we can get into them pleasing them. If we're not really feeling it ourselves, then we're being performative. And then we're trying to please them and it can get that's again, where it can get sticky. So being transparent, I'm having a hard time feeling this, can we do some stuff? Can we do some play and see where we're at, and not be the DOM the DOM all the time? You know, I want you to help me tell me what you're most interested in. Right? Now. Let's see if that sparks me again. And it's not your fault, if it doesn't. So that's not a transparency that we're used to talking about as D types, and having as D types, especially long term relationships.

Edge : 47:18

And you're talking, you're talking about bringing the whole person everywhere. And that's really about integration, which is the opposite of compartmentalization. So it's really making sure that if you are the D type, you're the D type at work, and you're the D type at play, and you're the D type at Publix. And it doesn't always mean, right, it doesn't always mean you're barking commands, but it means that the sort of energy that you bring is always there with you and not shunted off to the side. Absolutely. It's how

Unknown: 47:45

we walk through the world, right. And so that's why I still identify as a dominant no matter how I play, or what other kinds of relationships I engage in, because that's how I walk through the world. And I consider myself a type A minus, I am a type A minus, because I am the master of my domain, my household, whoever may be in my charge at that time, even though they have personal autonomy, I do not need to be in control of the entire room. That's another way to, you know, to ego check, right? I just don't, I don't I don't want that kind of responsibility. For decades, too much energy way too much work. You know, I

Edge : 48:22

hear you on that. Because I feel like for some s types I encountered their fantasy involves me kind of micromanaging their lives. And I feel like well, actually, your your role is to make my life easier, not harder. And I you know, that's a lot of work, like tracking every calorie and every workout on every rep. Like, maybe you can do that.

Unknown: 48:42

Right? No, that sounds like a session to me like it. And so you can, you know, pay me by the hour for that. Totally cool. Good with.

Edge : 48:52

Awesome. So I know that for me to reach even where I'm at in terms of that level of integration has taken extraordinary work with mental health professionals and through my 12 STEP program, and I do believe you're starting a nonprofit that's really about wellness. So can you tell us a little bit about that?

Unknown: 49:09

Sure. Thank you. I'm the Executive Director of moving forward wellness. And we offer a trauma informed tob GQ plus approach to wellness, staff management and client services. So we do individual work and also focus that work on folks that work for nonprofits and community clinics. So when we care for our caregivers, we can help them avoid burnout. And we can help prevent sanctuary trauma, which is them accidentally causing trauma to folks coming to them for help because of bias or lack of information or education, things like that. And so when we pay attention to caregiver wellness, they are able to more pay, they are better able to pay attention to their customer service.

Edge : 49:54

That's fantastic. And I will include a link to your nonprofit in the show notes for people who want to Check it out or support it. Would you have any advice for someone who's just starting on this journey into dominance? Like they, they feel like that's who they are. We've talked about the challenges with mentorship, we've talked about this sort of transparency, but But what advice would you offer them?

Unknown: 50:15

You can learn from everything and everyone, learn what you want to do as well as what not to do. Because everybody's a great example of something. And people are complex, right? Don't let anybody tell you that, that there is one way to do something, right. There's usually a lot of ways to do things, right. There's a lot of wrong ways to. So, you know, as long as nobody's going to the hospital and everything is consensual. You know, we get in. I have a friend who, who used to say that he didn't come up through, you know, the liberation, gay liberation of the 70s for people to tell them how to fuck. So, you know, this is, to me this leather is about anarchistic, rough raw sex however that looks for you. And for me, ds is about self awareness and, and self love. And so as long as you're covering your bases as far as being a good human being go, have fun and just be honest about your experience level. Just don't you know? Don't pretend you know more than you do. And go have a good time.

Edge : 51:28

That's brilliant advice. I am just so pleased. You've joined us today and thank you for being on full cow.

Unknown: 51:34

Thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much.

Edge : 51:42

And that's it for this episode. Thank you so much for joining me, please consider subscribing or you can send feedback to edge at full cow dot show. As always, may your leather journey be blessed