Interludes are short segments between regular episodes with no editing but WITH leather creaking. It's a chance to hear a little more about what's going on in my life. This time, a very special Interlude, as I interview Lady V about Hu-Cow and Bovine play.
Find Lady V at:
Ask Edge! Go to https://www.speakpipe.com/LTHREDGE to leave ask a question or leave feedback. Find Edge's other content on Instagram and Twitter. Also visit his archive of educational videos, Tchick-Tchick.
Interludes are short segments between regular episodes with no editing but WITH leather creaking. It's a chance to hear a little more about what's going on in my life. This time, a very special Interlude, as I interview Lady V about Hu-Cow and Bovine play.
Find Lady V at:
Ask Edge! Go to https://www.speakpipe.com/LTHREDGE to leave ask a question or leave feedback. Find Edge's other content on Instagram and Twitter. Also visit his archive of educational videos, Tchick-Tchick.
Welcome to Full Cow, a podcast about leather kink and BDSM. My name is Edge, my pronouns are he, him, and I am your host. And this is an interlude the episode between episodes offered raw and unedited, but with leather creaking. And this time I have a very special interlude. You know, normally I use these as an opportunity to talk about something going on in my life, but today we have a special interview with Lady V. Lady V, welcome to Full Cow.
Speaker 2:Hello, thank you so much for having me and thank you for being Full Cow right now. And it just, oh my God, every crinkle to me is just heaven. It's just like ASMR heaven. Especially as a boot black, I'm just like, oh my God, the sound.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's why these episodes are very popular. To start, can you tell us how you identify in the community and your pronouns?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely so. My pronouns are she, her and I am a professional switch, a sex educator, an organizer, and I am also a human cow, also known as a who cow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thank you for bringing that up, because that is when you reached out to me because you're doing some workshops that we're going to want to promote, but you listed this, or it's somewhere on your website and I was like whoa, I don't think I've even barely heard about who cow or bovine play, and I think it's fascinating. Can you start by just giving us a quick sense of what the hell this is?
Speaker 2:Oh my God, absolutely. I would love to so think about it like this. So who cow? Human cow? So the best place I can describe being a human cow is like a mixture between pop play and middle space. So it's this like very like fun, loving, tender space and typically, you see, like a lot of mostly like femme people, but there's also this huge portion of the community we don't talk about that's also gender expansive and also masculine as well, like our bulls and our oxen and also all of our other handler roles as well. So it's this big community akin to the pop community, but with cows.
Speaker 1:Now, I've certainly heard of people being cat identified. Yes, there's a large pony community. Where do you think this cow identity? Do people have an inner cow or where do you feel like it's coming from for you?
Speaker 2:Oh my God. Yes, I definitely have an inner cow, so to speak. So for me, the headspace of the cow, so to speak, is I feel like, as community organizers we have, we give so much. We give our hyans, we give our milk, we give our dairy or meat our cream, sometimes, depending on the situation, and it's a very community based headspace and also I'm typically very dominant, leading, and it's a space where, for me, I can kind of come down and not be a type A personality and just be able to ruminate the grass, relax, be a little bit softer, and it's not primarily submissive, but it's typically a very much a fun, loving headspace.
Speaker 1:I actually love that you sort of made it this community orientation. Can you talk a little bit more about how bovine play like? Is this particularly popular with people who do a lot of service to the community? Or do people, when they're in their bovine space, do a lot of service? Can you expand on that a little bit?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. So I would say that I haven't seen as community centric. I think that's just kind of a personal thing for myself. I would say it's a lot of to just be very forward. It's a lot of play based on, I think, autonomy, because so much of it is around forced breeding and forced milking and I think so much of it, especially just the idea of being human cows, Just this idea of kind of objectification of self and loss of autonomy. I think that we kind of play with.
Speaker 1:And I do have a local friend, kai, if you listen to my podcast he's a very very, very, very, very, very cow identified. So I know there are people like this.
Speaker 2:Yes, kai is actually someone I actually chat with online. That they actually just message me this morning going oh, the DJ made everyone at the room move for me and I was like, yes, so if you're listening.
Speaker 1:You talked briefly. You sort of glossed over something that I think is also very interesting how does the intersection between gender and this sort of play Because it's not just you are a cow or a bull, but where do genderqueer people find themselves in hukau play?
Speaker 2:I've met this wonderful ox in a bar in Portland. The best way they could describe it is they're saying that basically they take blockers or I can't remember if it was blockers, or they actually had an orcheectomy specifically to prevent any further production of testosterone. To them, that is an ox like an ox is a castrated bull. To them they're like I am an ox, I am a log-hord, I'm from Texas, I'm free, I wrote the land. It really changed my perspective because I typically see petite little cis-female women in this type of play. You don't see a very big representation, especially of gender non-conforming folks, when really it is a everyone role. It is an everyone type of play. It doesn't matter if you are gender binary or gender expansive. It's something that's accessible across the board.
Speaker 1:What's also interesting. I do feel like it's a fairly, let's say, emerging fetish, but I know there is a role very close next to muscle bear, that sort of bull, the muscle aggressive, hyper-masculine male. They're not using bull in this sense, but it is sort of tapping in to some of those similar energies, I think.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I think a lot of it too, because when we hear the word bull, we think breeding right, I think breeding so often, and I think it's such a wider range of that, especially when you're talking about male-identified cows or bovine. You're talking about head space, you're talking about their play, and their play might not always be as sexually centric. There's a lot of people who play with pet play in a very asexual or not very sexually heavy kind of space, but I think that we often gloss over it because that's not what we see in pornography. Pornography isn't showing us bovines that are masculine-identified or gender expansive. We see only one type of person, and it's typically a petite cis female.
Speaker 2:From what I've experienced and I would like to see a bigger array of that, because there's so much out there in terms of kind of like what you're saying with the muscle bear a power role, and for me, I have my whole Calcubus kind of mindset as well too, when I'm in top space. Long story short, I lock boys in my jail cell at my dungeon and you cannot leave until you feed off me. You are going to become my thrall and if you want to go back to the village you have to feed off my milk and my creep.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Power roles. Power roles.
Speaker 1:But you know, I think you also briefly mentioned that this kind of intersex, little space, a little bit. Did I get that? Did I hear that right?
Speaker 2:Yes. So it to me, especially when I've been a more kind of like free, loving, adhd, especially like heavy mindset, I'm often what my best just calls a little calf. I'm just kind of like adventurous. I'm looking around, I'm kind of just like, very like open and receptive, and it's very like you know, when you're like how do I put this? When you're young, you're just curious about everything and it gives you that curiosity of the world. Again, it to me, being a cow, it gives me that like curiosity of like what is this smell? What is this fun thing going on across the street? What is this? You know play that's going on.
Speaker 2:It comes at it through a different lens that allows me to be soft, allows me to be small, be a little calf. You know, often I will just plot myself down on my mistress's lap, who was five foot two. I had five foot 10. So I just plot myself down. She's like okay, cow, I know that you think that you're a little cow, but you're a little bit too big right now. So off off mistress's lap. But I do love her and I love the fact that she puts up with my shit. Sometimes when I'm just like, oh, I'm going to plop right on you like a big cow, because it's love, unfiltered, that's great and actually I don't know that all of my audience will know what little space is or what little is.
Speaker 1:I mean, abdl is starting to become recognized and not shamed anymore, but littles is different. Can you say a little bit about what little play is?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely Add to the dessert really quickly. So ABDL, for anyone who's listening, is adult baby diaper lover. However, that's kind of a wide umbrella, kind of like what we talk about leather and we're inclusive, kind of like with pops and also like boot blacks and just like latex, like it's a wide umbrella. So ABDL, adult baby diaper lover also includes things like littles, who are people who age play. You know who might be into kind of like age regression and going ahead and like doing some activities that are more akin to kind of like what they enjoy and what stimulates them In a child like mindset. There's also middle space, which is more like kind of like teenager centric, like like it's more like you are more the mindset of like playing lots of video games and like it's typically a little bit more.
Speaker 2:How do I put this? I find it to be less taboo, slightly, unfortunately, with a lot of people, even though I'm like whatever, like we do some weird shit as a community. I mean like we sniff each other's armpits, like who's going to be, like there's our pets, like who cares if we wear a diaper, like we're all playing with the taboo right. Like I like fee from both sides, so like I love everything like no shame and of course we have bigs who are actually like the daddies of the bodies and the aunties. I like to call myself miss fee.
Speaker 1:I'm a babysitter, so I'm so grateful you talked about middle space, because my boy wants to be like that video game player and I don't know that he has the term middle space, so now he does yeah.
Speaker 2:No, totally Absolutely. That's the thing, like wearing diapers is not a main component for little space or middle space. It is something that could be at and or if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think you really described it well when you were talking about that calf. It's that innocence of childhood is that it's exploring the world and I know a lot of events not so much on the gay, cis, male side, but a lot of other events will have like little story time, where you just get to cuddle in a blanket and listen to someone redo a story and it's really beautiful that way. So we should do an episode on that in the future.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, I would love to. We actually host the little's event out in Portland called camp little space, and it's different quarterly events where you do like Halloween events or like you do like a little summer flake. We're going to do a little Christmas too because, let's face it, not all of us have families to go back to, especially in queer communities, so we just want people to be able to be authentic.
Speaker 1:And if someone wants to get into Hugh Cal play, where do they start, is it? I mean, are there first of all their companies they should be checking out, or should they just spend some time exploring their own inner bovine? What do you, what would you recommend?
Speaker 2:God, I would recommend going on Amazon and just getting some cheap lingerie and starting there. To be honest, there's unfortunately, from what I've experienced, not a lot of written content on the boat about who cows except for like fantasy. I do offer a intro to hook-out and bovine play. That includes also things on like all types of bovine roles, different scenarios, the different handler roles. So there's that as well. But, honestly, going out and just kind of see what works for you, it's so often people start with one thing and it's typically forced breeding, from what I've understood, like for most people Like it's the forced loss of autonomy that I think attracts so many people, and I think that just playing with, like, what resonates with you.
Speaker 2:Not everyone's gonna go. Yeah, I like that. A lot of people are just gonna go. No, the lactation does it for me or no, I love the idea of being a big bull, like the creature, like a power animal, so to speak. I think it's gonna be very different for everyone. So, finding their uniqueness in their bovine space.
Speaker 1:And you mentioned briefly, you do a class on this and I believe you have some workshops and classes coming up. Where can people find you if they want to experience some of your education?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. They can actually find me directly through my website, which is ladyviviscom, and you can also find me at FetLife and Instagram under the same name. I advertise pretty heavily for all of them. And how do I put this? Even if there isn't one coming up, I like to do this regularly, specifically the hook-how classes, because it's so buddy-grade now, so we'll definitely make sure we have a few virtual classes as well.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's great to have that option. What is your next class you have on your schedule? What are you teaching soon? God?
Speaker 2:So I am currently on my fall workshop tour across the US and on Tuesday I will be teaching gender affirmation and sophistication, which is to me like a big passion of mine, just because I love being able to like talk about erasing some of the negative tropes that comes with a lot of sophistication, some of the misogyny, and being able to unpack that and be able to play with it from a place that isn't so harmful. So I have that coming up and I also have a itch-ro-to-hoocow class coming up on Wednesday, which is virtual.
Speaker 1:Unfortunately this if people won't hear this until Friday.
Speaker 2:That's totally okay, but I plan on having one again, probably in January, just because I want people to be able to find, honestly, their inner bovine, and sometimes it's the best time to do it when you are cold at your house. You and your partner are cold and horny and ready to go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and again, it's great to have these virtual options. I think that's a gift to the pandemic that we've looked at more virtual platforms to educate and to find community too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, honestly, I think COVID was a little bit of a silver lining in terms of building education across the nation, especially virtually, so it was definitely a moment where I was really inspired to do virtual classes to like. After getting all this amazing virtual classes from people all over you know the world, why not give that back honestly?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and are there virtual spaces for hukals? I mean, if I wanted to find others, would I go to FetLife, or where might I be looking?
Speaker 2:FetLife and Reddit. Reddit has quite a few subreddits that have different communities, including, I think there's what I came across recently that was even specifically a herd-like community, so specifically a support community for hukals. I just I love it so much and honestly, it's one of those things. I see a lot of overlap with what I call the French Vanillas people who are like slightly cakey, but not totally. I think it's a big gateway cake for a lot of people. So it'll be really interesting to see where hukals are at in five, ten years.
Speaker 1:Well, and you mentioned, it's part of this larger pet play, kind of umbrella fetish, and so who you know? There are lots of different kinds of pets. Who knows what else is emerging.
Speaker 2:No, it's true and honestly I I taught a pet play 101 yesterday at Lancet, michigan and I met there a creature and a monster and I'd never met a creature or a monster before. And it's evolving and it's definitely evolving as media evolves, as I've noticed. I keep seeing like monster girls and stuff like that in clown girls and all the time I'm going, oh my God, like this is the shock that the generation felt before me when they went oh my God, pops and leather, what the fuck. And now it's the normal and I'm also going over here and seeing like, oh my God, all this stuff evolving, like track suits, like you know, track suits and athletic gear now becoming very into the norm, and like sneakers into leather. It's just very interesting to see how everything evolves over time.
Speaker 1:That's the nice thing about the community is it keeps growing, which is good, and that's it, for that's all the time we have, but I'm so grateful for Lady V for joining us, and is there anything else you wanted to say to the audience?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I will be doing workshops in Las Vegas, Seattle, Los Angeles, the Bay Area and a few other places coming up in the next few months in October and November. Come out and see me. You can find out all that information at my website or Instagram or FetLife at ladyviviscom or just Lady Vivis on social media, and I am so excited to be in your home pasture and come on out. We'll chew the cut together and we'll learn a few things and hopefully get a little weird and authentic together.
Speaker 1:That's great, and I'll have those links in the show notes so people can find you. Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 2:Oh my god, thank you so much, edge.