Welcome to Full Cow, a podcast about leather and kink where your host, Edge (he/him), shares his 30+ years of experience in the community. In this episode we look at Digital Kink, starting with a personal history of the evolution of virtual kink spaces followed by a brief guide to navigating these spaces. Then we have the promised interview with Master J Tebias Perry, author of the book Leather Mentorship, followed by some really interesting Ask Edge questions.
Here are some useful links from the episode:
Ask Edge! Go to https://www.speakpipe.com/LTHREDGE to leave ask a question or leave feedback. Find Edge's other content on Instagram and Twitter. Also visit his archive of educational videos, Tchick-Tchick.
Welcome to Full Cow, a podcast about leather and kink where your host, Edge (he/him), shares his 30+ years of experience in the community. In this episode we look at Digital Kink, starting with a personal history of the evolution of virtual kink spaces followed by a brief guide to navigating these spaces. Then we have the promised interview with Master J Tebias Perry, author of the book Leather Mentorship, followed by some really interesting Ask Edge questions.
Here are some useful links from the episode:
Ask Edge! Go to https://www.speakpipe.com/LTHREDGE to leave ask a question or leave feedback. Find Edge's other content on Instagram and Twitter. Also visit his archive of educational videos, Tchick-Tchick.
Let's talk about Digital King, that you are an adult. Welcome to Full Cow, a podcast about leather kink and BDSM. My name is Edge, my pronouns are he, him, and I'm your host. This time we'll be talking about digital kink, primarily the history of how kink moved into digital spaces. I will provide perhaps a quick how-to segment but, given the demographic of my audience all of y'all are better at digital kink than I am, as you are native to these spaces. Then I have a throwback sort of interview which should have been in the last episode but I was unable to schedule it. But we will be talking with Master J Tobias Perry about his book Leather Mentorship, and then we'll finish off with an Ask Edge segment. So I'm hoping it's an interesting episode. I certainly think it's a pretty good one. And let's get started.
Speaker 1:I am part of a very unique leather generation. I am part of that generation that made the transition from an analog kink community that existed primarily through bars, runs, events and magazines into the digital leather kink community, which exists quite vibrantly today. That also means I was part of the community that was building online digital spaces for Kingsters and in this segment I just wanted to give you a bit of a history of where we came from and what that was like Now. In the before time, in the long, long ago, the two ways to really meet people you had bars, which were uneven even back then. As much as we want to complain about the dearth of leather men at leather bars now, the truth is back in the day there was probably more leather, but I went home alone many, many, many nights, so from my perspective it was always kind of chancy at the bar. I do think I had better chances back then. Of course I was younger back then too, and that never hurts. But beyond that the way to meet people was through magazines like Drummer International, leatherman, bound and Gagged, and all of these magazines in the back had personal ads.
Speaker 1:Now this was a very complicated process. The way it would work is first you would take photos of yourself with a film camera, bring those to the film developing place and actually get actual photos, which is tricky. If you were doing nudes or doing something a little risque, you would have to go pick up the photos and hope they got developed and hope no one was smirking at you. You would then write a letter by hand about who you are and what your interests are and all that. You would take the letter, you would take the photo and you would mail it to the magazine. The magazine would forward it to the person who placed the ad and then they may or may not respond to you. So there would be weeks, literally weeks, when you would be running home to check the mail in the hopes that you had gotten a reply.
Speaker 1:And I had some success with that man. I met this super hot flight attendant, I think he went by the name Digger. He was really into breath control and, wow, so sexy. I met him through ads. I met Archie, my sort of bondage amazing mentor, through ads, and that's primarily what we had bars and ads. Now there were leather clubs that had runs, there were some events, so those were options as well. But in many ways, even though there was a kind of vibrancy to meeting, particularly at a bar, our options were a little limited.
Speaker 1:Now, I've always been a techie, nerdy, geeky person and I mean I had computers. I had, like, a Timex computer. It was just really I had computers from the start, let's just say that. And my first memory of kinky digital online spaces were something called BBSs Bolton Board Systems. Now we're back in the time when there was a modem, which means you would actually connect your computer to the phone line. It was very slow. It tied up your phone line so no one could call you. It was less than ideal. And you would dial into the PBS, and a PBS was a little bit. I think you might think of it like a forum today.
Speaker 1:There were message boards where there were threaded conversations and then there were private messages as well, and that's what you had.
Speaker 1:I will say I got into cigars because I developed a super crush on a guy in LA that I met on a BBS and I remember using BBSs from, oh, the 1980s to the 1990s, so we're talking about the late 1900s and in the 1990s I then also started using IRC, internet Relay Chat, which is sort of wow if you imagine a chat room that is entirely by command line interface. It was just sort of barbaric. But there were sort of queer spaces on IRC and I remember some hypnosis spaces, I remember some cigar spaces. So there were places for us to connect and to chat and again you'd be essentially in a digital room. People would be talking publicly and then there would be private messages as well as well, now, the big thing was AOL, america Online, which was a kind of walled garden of digital content that included like oh, I'm going to go to the travel section or oh, let me go look at the food section and there'd be articles and there'd be recipes and there'd be whatever.
Speaker 1:But the big thing with AOL is that there were rooms and the two big ones were M4M Dungeon and M4M Dungeon 2. Now everything gay was coded, M4M male for male, and there was a limit to how many people could be in a room. So once the first dungeon filled up, people would go into the second dungeon. I don't know why we never made an M4M Dungeon 3. In my memory there was only two and you would kind of constantly be trying to get into the room and AOL had instant messaging. So again, there's a public space for conversation and then there are private spaces for conversation. Aol charged by the hour. By the hour. I can't tell you how much I spent as a horny, young, gay leather person on America Online. Let me tell you I spent a lot of money and that's actually where Leather Edge comes from. On AOL you could have multiple screen names and I evolved through many different screen names and one of the last ones I had was Leather Edge, and I think I probably tell the story of all that in the Origins episode.
Speaker 1:Aol was also kind of my entry into the web because at some point they realized the web was happening and so the walled garden became a little less walled. Now, in 1995, to the best of my memory, that's when I first really ventured onto the World Wide Web, world Wide Web. That's when I started my homepage, leatheredgecom, and there's a remnant of it there still, if you're curious. The web was small and hard to navigate because we didn't really have search engines. What we had was Yahoo, which was a sort of curated collection of sites, and I think somewhere probably under society and culture then gay and lesbian you could go find a couple of gay things, and that was sort of it. Now, some of the really important early leather websites I remember. The first is Leather Navigator. Leather Navigator was one of the first leather sites I found on the web and it was just a collection of links. There was also a really beautifully designed, moody, atmospheric site called Bootjack Boot J-A-Q, bootjack, and those were the two sites I most remember.
Speaker 1:Now, around this time I also had started my own site. I don't even remember how I figured out how to both get a server, get files onto the server, get a domain name, get the DNS pointing all the right places. I can't even tell you how I did that. I can tell you that when I started my website, html was super easy to learn because there were only like six tags. You had heading one, heading two, heading three, heading four. You had TT, which was like typewriter text, and you could get courier font and that was sort of it. You know, you didn't, you couldn't, there were no tables, there was no real tools for design, there were no tables, there was no real tools for design, and so, as HTML was being developed, I was coding this all by hand, and so it was really easy to master HTML, because I learned it as it happened and my site grew over the course of 10 years. I had it up for 10 years.
Speaker 2:I learned a lot about design.
Speaker 1:I had a lot of content including links to other leather people's homepages, some essays, some stories, links to vendors of gear. All that existed on my site. It sort of interesting resource for people. The roots of the digital fame of Leather Edge go back to leatheredgecom. Now this is at a time when people had something called a homepage, where they had this sort of singular presence. That was their home on the web. The other really important site I shouldn't say other really important site, as though mine was I mean, mine was, but I don't want to claim that but the site that was important to me in the early aughts. So we're in the new millennium, now we're in the early aughts.
Speaker 1:Leather Navigator at some point evolved from just a list of links into a chat site where you had a profile, you had pictures and you could chat with other members. It was inelegant, right, because the messages came through on pop-up windows. So you would log in and suddenly, like 20 pop-up windows would be coming at you. It was a little crazy but it was, to my memory, the first chat site available for leather folks on the web and I met many people through Leather Navigator. There are people I've encountered, even recently, who we had known each other online as far back as Leather Navigator in the early aughts odds. Now at some point this rogue upstart started and it was a series of sites including World Leatherman, world Rubberman, and then they had a bunch of others like I don't know, world Sports, kit Men and World I don't know what, world Skins. That was one Basically it was world plus fetish area and at first it was free and people were kind of flocking to it because it was free. And this was a really clever strategy because you start off by offering it for free, you get a lot of users and then you charge. Eventually. All of these world, this and that sites got consolidated and that became Recon.
Speaker 1:Recon continues. I think when people ask me in terms of digital leather spaces, particularly kind of meeting people, I point them to Recon. For me, that's the place to go when you want to meet leather folk online and be able to chat and cruise and see profiles and look at photos. That's just sort of the thing, right. And obviously Recon's had a really long history. Probably I guess it's been around I would think maybe 20 years at this point and it is what it is.
Speaker 1:I think it's very useful in some ways I still have a lot of friends that I've met through Recon. I find it. I've met one, two oh two or three partners through Recon, so you can find love on Recon, although no promise that it's going to last. That's true of any relationship, of course. What I like about Recon for newcomers is you can just sort of make a throwaway profile name and what you can do is look at all the people near you in a very low stakes way, because you can also create the setting where people can't see that you've seen their profile, so you can just lurk and look, and lurking and looking is a great way to start because you see who's around, you see how people describe themselves, how they craft profiles, you see what photos look like, you get a sense of the tenor of the digital community in your area and worldwide, and that provides you a kind of space to think about how you want to craft your own digital presence on a space like Recon.
Speaker 1:In addition to Recon, there are a lot of smaller specialized digital sites. There's certainly Rubber Zone. Fetish Men had a moment in the sun because it had video chat. Fetlife is a large I like to think of it as a kinky Facebook is a large I like to think of it as a kinky Facebook, and it's really useful because it includes everyone of you know heterosexual, queer of all flavors, and so it really provides much more of a kind of community kind of thing than hookups Although certainly you can hook up anywhere there are kinky people and so all of that's happening Now.
Speaker 1:In my own journey, I kept up my homepage for 10 years. It became this sort of resource on the web for people. But I reached a point where my career was changing and I was getting tired of the site and it had gotten so big and so sort of cumbersome and hard to update that I just didn't have the inner resources to keep updating it. I took the site down and I thought you know, I'm the inner resources to keep updating it. And I took the site down and I thought you know, I'm just going to retire Leather Edge. And for a while Leather Edge was retired and eventually came back on recon. But part of what happened is people were like oh, I saw your photos on Tumblr and I'm like Tumblr, what's Tumblr? That's how I discovered Tumblr in, let's say, the late 2000s, the late aughts maybe? No, it was the late aughts. I realized everyone had my photos on Tumblr and I'm like well, that's ridiculous. Mostly because they had my photos without any credit, no way of pointing people back to me.
Speaker 1:So I'm like well, I'll show you, I'm going to create my own Tumblr and I'm going to post every single photo of me so that at least there's a definitive resource, so that people can kind of find out who I am. My Tumblr is still there.
Speaker 1:It's leatheredgetumblrcom, and you know, I did the Tumblr thing for a long time and it literally is and it's not, I shouldn't say literally, it's not every single photo of me ever, but you can go back to the very first photos of me from, I think, 1995, where I was a wee young leather lad and you can look and see the development. And for a long time I kept the Tumblr up and it was really my primary social media presence. Now we're shifting from simple sort of digital spaces in general, ones that are more focused on, if we think, in the early days, it was really about public spaces for conversation and private spaces for conversation. You would have that on AOL, you would have that on IRC, you would have that on BBSs. And now, with social media, we're really thinking about individuals as media, as content producers. There's always private messaging right, and I think that's why Threads is such a disaster, by the way, and Blue Sky hasn't taken off. It's like, well, if I can't contact people, what the hell is the point? And Tumblr was a shift for me because it didn't have public conversational spaces, it was really just sort of photos and it was great. I mean, I have my own list of favorites that I saw on Tumblr. I will say that Obviously I would spend a lot of my solo erotic time on Tumblr, but it would be strange because I would be scrolling and pleasuring myself and there'd be a photo of me and that kind of really ruins the vibe when you're pleasuring yourself.
Speaker 1:I must say, as part of that, I eventually made a Twitter and I eventually made an Instagram, but I didn't put a lot of energy at all into my Twitter. There was a feature on Tumblr where it would post to Twitter. It wouldn't post the actual photo, it would post a link. So I had a little bit going on Twitter. I had even less going on on Instagram. I just didn't quite get it at that point. Then I think, what was it 2017? Tumblr's like no, no, no, no adult content? Well, that was not a great business decision, but they did it, and so Tumblr just sort of died in many ways. In many ways it's still there, but I think it just sort of died. So I shifted more to Twitter and Instagram and really used those again, just posting photos, because that was sort of historically.
Speaker 1:What I was doing was sort of creating this record of my leather journey and creating this sort of record of a particular style of leather and how it looks as someone moves through the world. I was also obviously looking for validation and attention and all that fun. And then, early in the pandemic, something shifted and there are a couple reasons for that. I had stepped into the title of Florida Leather Sir. At the start of the pandemic, the producer of the contest asked me to take on the title, just sort of to kind of keep it open during the pandemic. So that really shifted my mindset and I started thinking a little bit more about okay, well, I've got these followers and I had like a couple thousand on Instagram and Twitter at the time. I've got these followers, maybe I could sort of do something very title holder-y.
Speaker 1:The real moment of awakening for me is I had just gotten off of a Zoom 12-step meeting and I made a quick. It was a leather Zoom 12-step meeting, so I was in full gear. I made a quick, maybe 15-second video about making sure you don't settle for someone unless they love you unconditionally blah, blah, blah, blah blah. And I posted it on Twitter and Instagram and it crazy resonated. It didn't go viral, viral, but in terms of the content I had been producing, it was very popular and I was like that was this aha moment. And what I came to realize is that, looking the way I look, that when I said things people listened and that I also realized I had a lot of experience to share. And that was the start of the kind of leather education presence on Twitter and Instagram. Now, for a while Twitter was sort of the educational place and Instagram was the look pretty photos place, and then I just started cross-posting my content.
Speaker 1:At some point someone's like, hey, where else are you keeping these videos? I'm like nowhere. And he's like well, you might want to change that. And so thank God he made that comment, because then Twitter became X, which is very uncertain territory. In the meantime, I had downloaded all of my videos from Twitter and put them into the web archive, which is com that's tchickcom. So then I had Instagram, twitter, I had the archive and I have a presence on Recon. I have a presence on FetLife Most of the places that are leather. If you search for Leather Edge, you're going to find me. The one place where it's spelled with all the vowels is Twitter, and that drives me crazy. But some idiot had taken L-T-H-R-E-D-G-E and did something so horrible that they got banned on Twitter, and so now I can never get that name. It makes me so angry.
Speaker 1:So towards the end of 2021, I'd been posting these videos and people were like oh my God, your voice, oh my God, your voice. I could listen to you all the time. Oh my God, oh my God. This was bizarre for me because I grew up really hating the sound of my voice. I often, on the phone, got misgendered. I never felt like my voice was deep enough. I had a lot of trauma around my voice, and so to get these powerful affirmations of my voice was just kind of reoriented how I thought about, how I sounded in a very powerful, powerful, deeply powerful way, and people were like you should do ASMR, you should do a podcast, you should do a podcast, you should do a podcast, you should do a podcast. And I have plenty on my plate. But I tucked that in the back of my head and at the beginning of 2022, yeah, am I getting this right?
Speaker 1:Yes, I had just gotten out of a relationship and I knew I needed to do something, something to invest time and energy in while I was sort of grieving and healing my heart. But also, here's my strategy right, when you're dating, you need something to talk about, because people are like, oh, what do you like to do and I can't just say I like to lie on my sofa and watch TV, which is true and which I have said. But if you say something like, oh, I'm working on a podcast, then it opens up oh, what's your podcast about? Then you have something to talk about. So Full Cow got started, thanks to all of my followers on Instagram and Twitter, who were moved by the sound of my voice, combined with a breakup which required me to invest time and energy in something to both fill the space and have something to talk about while dating, and that is now sort of the entirety of my digital kink presence, personally speaking, and that's easy to extrapolate, right? If there are other digital kinksters on Tumblr, god knows. There are other digital kinksters on Twitter I refuse to call it X there are other digital kinksters on Instagram we have claimed all of those spaces and there are lots of other kinky podcasts.
Speaker 1:Now I drew the line at TikTok. I tried it and I made a little bit of content. And what I suspect is TikTok until the algorithm really figures you out, it doesn't know who's for you page, and on TikTok, if someone doesn't like the content, they don't just flip to the next TikTok they make some really mean, mean, mean, biting comments and I was like no, no, no, no, I'm drawing the line at TikTok. I can't do TikTok, I can't. My fragile self-esteem cannot take these attacks. I don't want to train the algorithm, so I have a TikTok and I don't use it. But I know there are kinky people on TikTok as well.
Speaker 1:The takeaways from this is that kinky people have always colonized available spaces for connection and communication, going all the way back, not just physical spaces like bars, but also from the beginning of digital content.
Speaker 1:We were there. We were there staking our claim and making spaces for others like us. That includes in bulletin board systems, aol, IRC. But people's personal homepages were really creating kind of visibility for leather and kink, and I'm sure there were people who discovered at a very young age leather and kink because of people's personal homepages. We were also creating spaces to connect, like Leather Navigator, recon, fetishmen, and then, beyond that, we have now evolved to be creating these social media content channels that provide lots of different, certainly some inspirationally erotic content, but also some educational content, and so Digital Kink has a place in the digital world and we've made that transition. Now it's up to all of you, and when I say all of you, I'm very aware that, according to the data analytics that are available to me on my social media, I know a lot of people who follow me are 19 to 34. This is your world. This is your world to shape and to continue to shape and to continue to show up in.
Speaker 1:We were the pioneers literally, literally, we were pioneering things, and now it's up to you to keep pioneering as digital spaces continue to evolve. And now you know a little bit more of history, of where we came from in terms of making that leap into digital spaces, and I hope you found that a useful and valuable lesson. Regular listeners know that I generally start each episode with my history, with a given topic, and then move into some sort of how-to segment.
Speaker 1:But, really, as I noted in the introduction, given the demographic of my listeners, probably all of you know digital kink better than I do, or at least as well as I do, because many of you are native to this environment. But I thought I would just share a couple of insights from my experience. First of all, when people are looking to explore leather and kink, I always recommend joining Recon.
Speaker 1:It might have some drawbacks, but it remains a really good place to meet other leather kinky people. If you're a gay man Noted If you're not a gay man, then I recommend FetLife, which I've always thought of as kind of like kinky Facebook. For either of these digital spaces, my recommendation is to create a throwaway profile, something without any photos, something with a random name, something without any text, because the first thing to do is lurk, Look at people's profiles, look at people who are in your area to get a sense, first of all, of the local digital kink community, but also to look at how they present themselves in these spaces, paying attention to the profiles that resonate with you the most. What is it about the photos? What is it about the text? This is the way of orienting yourself to this particular digital kinky space. Really pay attention to the kind of profile, the kind of photos you might want to present in order to resonate with others in the space. Then, at some point, you're going to want to make your real profile.
Speaker 1:I'm obviously very big on branding Everywhere you go in digital spaces. There is a Leather Edge account. I don't use them all. I have a TikTok account. I don't use it. I have a lot of minor accounts that I just like to claim my brand. This is a way of saying it's probably wise to be thoughtful about your screen name or whatever name you're going to use in any particular digital space, because it might be something you want to carry over into other spaces and it might be something you want to keep for your life. That certainly has been the case for me. So, after you've made some decisions about your profile name, I think it's then more important to focus on the text than the photos.
Speaker 1:Now trust me, everyone's going to look at the photos. No one actually reads the profile. That's been my experience in places like Recon. But I think the textual information is a lot easier in some ways, to control than getting really good photos, and there are a lot of people who can't put up photos because of personal reasons, because of career reasons. But you can have text and you can be thoughtful and intentional in the text. Be honest about what you've done and what you were looking for, as honest as you can be today.
Speaker 1:I obviously am a big believer in really good photos as well. Now, I have had the great fortune of working with a number of photographers and if you have the opportunity to work with a professional photographer, take it, because I cannot tell you how much it is worth it. There may be some photographers, particularly ones who are just starting out, who will trade photos for your time and so you can get some free photos. But I have paid for a number of photo shoots and I've never been disappointed. So that is an option to consider, because I think really good professional photos put you in the best light without a question, and when you combine that with really thoughtful, intentional text, then you're in a really good place.
Speaker 1:It is useful to be cautious in these digital spaces. There are a lot of bad actors and some of them are acting poorly on purpose and some of them just don't know any better and you're going to have to develop some useful filters. Now I can't really tell you how to do this because it's quite individualized, but I would suggest that if something sounds too good to be true, maybe it is, and to whatever extent you have a network in the community in real life or in alternate digital spaces, maybe on Instagram, and now you're on recon try to check people out, try to vet them to get some sense of whether or not they are who they say they are. Certainly, before playing with anyone, I would recommend meeting them in a neutral location. I'm big on meeting for coffee because it's very safe. It's like one hour, that's all you get.
Speaker 1:And then I can go on my way. The nice thing about Recon as opposed to something like Grindr or Scruff is that it's? Not about the instant hookup. It just isn't designed for instant hookups because the whole system is a little slow with the messaging. It is designed, I think, for communication and for connection which are the things that are at the center of kink of life.
Speaker 1:Beyond that, I say explore and check out other spaces. I've actually had a lot of luck on Instagram. A lot of people contact me through my Instagram. I've actually had a lot of luck on Instagram. A lot of people contact me through my Instagram. People who contact me through Twitter I refuse to call it X.
Speaker 2:And these other spaces create new connections with different kinds of audiences.
Speaker 1:Right, Not everyone is on recon, so start by lurking, then build a really thoughtful, intentional profile with the best photos you can attain and then be really mindful of some of the risks, develop some filters, really invest in communication, meet in a neutral space and then continue to explore. Again, not the best tutorial. However, perhaps it offers some guidance for people who are completely new to a space and I hope you find it at least a little bit useful. And I am absolutely thrilled to be here today with Master J Tobias. Master Tobias, welcome to Full Cow.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much. I didn't get my proper way to address you because I've always just looked at you as Edge, so do I call you?
Speaker 1:Edge. That's it. Do I call you Full Cow? Edge is cool. Edge is cool. It's who I am.
Speaker 2:Hey, thank you. Thank you so much for having me. Of course, it's an honor because I've followed you for so long and you're the body of work that you've done, but I'm honored to be here. My name is Master J Tobias Perry. I am from Atlanta, georgia. I spend time as well as in London. I live in London as well, and my body of work is. I would say that it's extensive, but not as extensive to some of my upline and people that I know.
Speaker 2:But, I've been in and around the leather community for um since about 2001 2002 and it actually started in south florida with sir mario who used to own the? Um was it the, the southern south coast resort? Um, it was right off of Broward, right there, right at the corner of Broward, and wherever.
Speaker 2:Before my time yeah, before your time I started in South Florida and moved to Atlanta and I really found my leather tribe here in Atlanta, more so than in South Florida, and I've been doing the body of work. As far as education, um, I'm a former member of onyx. Um, I've taught at claw. I've taught at um master class under recon for london leather week, I've taught at dark lands, etc. Etc.
Speaker 1:And yeah, awesome, leather, and your pronouns are he, him is fine, yeah, wonderful. Speaking of your body of work, you are the author of the book Leather Mentorship, which I just suddenly saw all over my Facebook, like everyone was reading it. So can you start by telling us what inspired you to write it?
Speaker 2:Oh man, there are so many different channels. That inspired that Myself I still consider myself under mentorship by Master Bruce and Boy Richard and Sir Yardley because they were my initial mentors. But the reason that I wrote it is really for the underdog and people who are coming into the community not only just the leather community but the gay community that will teach you from a blueprint standpoint, um pitfalls, what to watch out for, who to vet, when to vet, should they be vetted if they are 40 years in the leather community and the difference between those two. But primarily my focus was for it to give the newcomer structure on what they needed to be come a more leadership, lead and leadership conscious leather man or leather woman or leather person. So I wanted kind of a blueprint and I've talked to several quote unquote leaders in the community and it was various ideas that they had.
Speaker 2:So I kind of wanted to summarize everything that I learned from my mentorship and kind of give blueprint and so people wouldn't make like missteps when they're coming into the community Because I mean, there's so many different traps out there. You have all types of deviancy. Did I say deviancy? Yeah, yeah, you have so much type of deviancy and people that are looking to um prey on the weak or prey on the uneducated when it comes to to leather and perception and you know your gear plays a a huge part in that as well so I basically wanted to give the newcomer a blueprint on the 101 version of how to come into mentorship and the community.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think your work is so important. I think you've really hit the nail on the head Like there isn't. If you're entering the community, there really isn't a good resource to tell you what to look out for, when to vet, how to vet. So I think your work is really critical because it's so widely available. You mentioned a couple of your mentors already. Can you tell us a little bit more about how you found your first mentor and what that process was like for you?
Speaker 2:Wow, that's really, really good. Actually, my first contest really catapulted me to mentorship. I ran for the Mr Atlanta Eagle Contest and I failed miserably. But the power of what I learned was not in me failing, it was the fact that someone saw my failure. Yet they saw my potential and they solicited me under mentorship. They said you know, we've been following you for a very long time and at the time, Boy Richard, who was international deaf leather boy, him and his husband saw me and they said we want to take you under our wings and we want to introduce you to master Bruce, which is at the time they're upline. And my Onyx brother overheard the conversation, cause he was my my handler doing the contest, and he said I'm jumping on board too.
Speaker 2:So in 2012, they really took me underground on and set me on a path for being an educator, being and you know, the community chooses us as leaders, we don't choose ourselves to hey, I want to be a leader and I'm going to and I'm going to go out in the community and I'm going to do all of this body of work and I'm just going to submerge myself in in being upfront and being seen. It wasn't about that. They took me on the ground, um, before I ran for my next title, Um, and I won, and I won that next title, and that set me on a path for um, not only just leadership, because leadership comes over time. It's something that that comes over time. But it started with Boy Richard.
Speaker 2:Boy Richard introduced me to Master Bruce. Master Bruce was more specific on the structure of what I needed and what he saw that I needed as far as competing, my visibility, the body of work that I want to concentrate on. And then sir yardy was more less the competition. Hey, as a leather man, this is what you do. You measure your cover when you earn a cover at the time.
Speaker 2:You know from the bridge of your nose, with your thumb, and that's how you measure it measure your brim. You never touch your brim unless you're cleaning it. So, sir, you already taught me different aspects, but one thing is that people need to understand, even if they're looking for daddies, mentors, etc. There's not just one fucking person that can give you everything you need. We should have the range and the capacity to want to gain energy, not only just an exchange of energy, but knowledge also from various people in the community that you look up to as a possible mentor.
Speaker 1:It takes a village. Really, it does take a village, always, always, and I love that. You've identified two ways that people can begin to find mentors Throwing yourself in the deep end with a contest, even if you don't know what you're doing. You learn a lot just from trying to compete in a contest. You learn a lot of what not to do right, and you get feedback from the judges so you can begin your learning journey there. You've also mentioned that you were a former member of Onyx, which I always look up to as a group. That is really, really good with mentorship. Can you talk a little bit about your experience with Onyx?
Speaker 2:My experience with Onyx was a span of 23 years, and that's as someone just who was around the organization not in South Florida but in Atlanta since 2002, and then became an associate of the organization and then full brother of the organization. Onyx is for people of color, especially, more specifically, black leather men and women. It is the best thing that I've seen or that I've come across. Um my experience with onyx was. It started out as a very positive one. It ended as a positive one. The only reason that I felt that it was time for me to separate is that onyx's values then changed. My values changed and what I wanted out of my journey collectively and unfortunately, my values changed. The Onyx values stayed the same. So I just I knew that it was time for me to leave in order for me to further my growth without the organization. But I mean, I'm still friends and associated with quite a few of them Even you know, some of them are still identified as my sons in the leather community but I just my values changed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love so you can run for a title. That's a great way to stumble upon a mentor. There are lots of leather groups that really sort of focus on more social aspect and provide that kind of village teaching you how to do things. I also love that you're identifying that your needs change over time, and you've talked about this a couple of times. You've had many mentors as you've grown in your journey and so you don't feel locked into a particular mentor. Part of their job is for you to not need them anymore and for you to need something else, right? Can you talk a little bit more about where you see your journey going next?
Speaker 2:You know what. It's all of our journey and I've said this publicly on the Miss Regilio stage in Darklands we should always want to evolve and we should always want to grow. Your leather does not have to stay the same. It's okay to go out from around the crowd, around commonality, and tread waters that you've never treaded before. So my journey, I think, is going to branch out more, so specifically in leather leadership and teaching those outside of just mentorship, but branching.
Speaker 2:We have some elders that want to be the go-to when it comes to education, unfortunately, and that information and knowledge they strategically sometimes do not pass it down because they want to be the go-to. And I just feel like, as someone who's been in the leather community for a very long time, the knowledge doesn't belong to us, the knowledge belongs to those have come long before us, it belongs to the universe and if we don't pass that information down, we all fail as as a community. And I just think that my next step is volume two, which would be leather leadership, and to continue working hand in hand with Recon and with the Darklands organization and CLAW, because I do sit on the board for CLAW as well as the Leather Archives Museum as well, so my whole future, um, even when I, um, even when I'm not teaching or anything like that, I think indirectly, in a classroom, a facilitating setting will just being, um, a pillar in the community for those that may just need me right.
Speaker 1:So that's my future um, so we're both in fairly urban areas with leather communities and a lot of what you've talked about. You've received the benefit of being in these sort of urban areas. What advice would you have to someone who's maybe in a rural area or a place without an onyx or leather clubs or leather titles how do you find mentorship when you feel really isolated? Or leather titles Like how do you find mentorship when you feel really isolated?
Speaker 2:I think that all of us, each of us as individuals, whether or not you're kinky, fetish or leather or rubber, I think all of us have the capacity to be mentors to someone, because all of us possess something that someone doesn't really have in their, in their body, in their body of knowledge.
Speaker 2:And I think that if they are in rural areas and I'm from a rural area in Georgia, originally I'm from a very small town called Reynolds, georgia, and the only the only way that I think that I got out was for two reasons I come from a very educated, entrepreneurial and well-to-do not well-to-do, but middle-aged family. So education was going to be my whole window of my life, so I knew I was going to leave that small town. So, and the other thing, too, is that you have to not fear the change that we talked about earlier. So if it is and if it's meant for you to escape to these larger cities to be who you are, don't be afraid to do that, because the only thing that fails is you not trying. That's the only failure that you can have in your life is only if you don't try. So for those people that are, you know, individuals that are in smaller towns, you have to sometimes escape what you know or what you've been raised around in order to see a bigger picture. To see the bigger picture.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's not necessarily you have to move to the big city. You talked about going to Darklands. You talked about going to Claw. I know people who go to Inferno, which is a big, intense play event, and it's their play for the entire year. Right, because they live someplace really isolated, they go for that week and they get their itch scratched. So I think what you're also saying is don't be afraid to go explore. You don't necessarily have to pick up your life and move to Atlanta or Fort Lauderdale. There are opportunities for all of us, particularly events like CLAW, which has such an emphasis on education. You've talked about teaching at CLAW. Do you teach at other places?
Speaker 2:I've taught at. Like I said before, I've taught at the master class and London Leather Week. I've taught there two years in a row and I've taught around. I've taught at Southeast Leather Week. I've taught there two years in a row and I've taught around. I've taught at Southeast Leather Fest. I've taught at I think I taught a class at Leather Leadership one year or two, but other than that, just other places here in Atlanta, I've taught a couple of classes.
Speaker 2:Oh God, it's just. I mean, all of this stuff just really runs together. Oh God, it's just. I mean all of this stuff just really runs together when you're talking about each individual section of the country or the world where you've taught. But I'm just a fan of education and claw being the cornerstone of Of what we do. It is my go to, is my go to, and I just implore people to go to Claw to be educated. But I've also going back and just popped in my mind also, during the pandemic, I taught a few classes online as well too, which my son is going to be teaching one of those classes at Claw this year. So even during the pandemic, I was still teaching online as well too. To answer, your question.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know they had virtual claw during the pandemic and they were doing classes online. I imagine there's still some places doing classes online, which would be a great resource if you're in a less populated area or you're feeling a little isolated. So in some ways, the pandemic really taught us how to keep teaching each other without conflict in-person events, and that, I think, has been a nice benefit. Part of why we're doing this interview now is because you are traveling all over the effing world. So literally, literally, what are some places you're going to next?
Speaker 2:Next that's coming up and, of course, since the book launched July 27th in Sydney, australia, I have been boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, because you know, I judged IML last year and then I taught all the way through the year, through the end of the year, did book signings, book tours, and next, for this upcoming year, I have three more events and I don't have anything on my calendar besides claw austin kink weekend, which I'm keynoting, and I'm doing iml because one of my sons is competing now. This shirt that I'm wearing. It has bulge on it. It looks like a football. So that was the reason why I had that.
Speaker 1:But this it also makes his chest look huge. Audience.
Speaker 2:You can't see it, oh God, I mean, it's just a chest. It's just a chest.
Speaker 1:It's actually huge. It's actually huge Sorry you were saying the bulge t-shirt.
Speaker 2:So the bulge t-shirt is an event that I do every single year and is typically centered around tacos and tequila, where I raise your favorite.
Speaker 1:Well, I love tacos. I don't drink, but I love tacos.
Speaker 2:So, oh, I forgot, you're under sobriety, that's right. So it donates 100% of all proceeds to a um, a registered 501 C three organization. And this would be our fifth year Um if. Fifth year, no, yeah, Fifth year Um if I was going to do my bulge event. But I am so exhausted from traveling, so everything that I'm doing up until IML. That is exactly where my calendar ends for right now. But who knows? I mean I may be doing self, or maybe back in London for London Leather Week, which comes up June 10th, June 10th.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you mentioned Austin Kink Weekend and I think that's another good point. There are these big national events like CLAW that are really, really big. Austin Kink Weekend is relatively new. It's kind of regional at this point it's growing, is relatively new. It's kind of regional at this point it's growing. And I think the other good strategy for people is, if you can't make IML, if you can't afford to get to London for Fetish Week, that look for regional events which are a little more smaller, a little more affordable, a little easier to get to and still provide that in-person connection where you can begin to find some mentorship. Have you been to Austin Kink Weekend before and can you tell us about it?
Speaker 2:Oh yes, first of all, I'm saying that for a reason my brother and my brother from another mother, pussycat and I we have, even since he won MIR and gave up his title him myself and Pup Savage, which is an Onyx member, which is San Francisco Eagle 2023. We have teamed up to go to all of these events to make sure that visibility of POC and black and brown bodies are in the house specifically. So Austin Kink Weekend has grown tremendously and it is the breeding ground for the next step to IML. So we started this thing myself, ralph Bruno, which I love, and Bolt and James, this other guy. So we started this thing.
Speaker 2:It's like a mock interview that we give for contestants that are attending Austin Keek Weekend and we do a mock interview for each contestant that's attending Austin Keek Weekend. And not only that, but the classes at Austin Keek Weekend are premier classes and they are taught by some colleague classes and they are taught by some colleague will leather colleagues that I know, like ray dalton, ray gave the best um demo ever, ever it was a impact, it was a fisting, it was a um, a contact play demo that he gave.
Speaker 2:But anyway, long story short, the classes at Austin King Weekend are awesome. Jeff, what was his name? Jeffrey Payne was our keynote speaker last year. I love Jeffrey Payne, crushed on him forever and now I'm keynoting the very next year. So Louise, randy and Jacob, and all of the staff, they are amazing. So if I were to really toot the horn of Austin King Weekend, I would say that it is the second cornerstone of education to Klopp. It is very, very educationally centered.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I tell people for IML, if you're not really in the contest, the only other reason to go to IML is to shop, because it really has, like every vendor, but it doesn't have classes, it doesn't have education. The two claws or I guess technically the one in LA is Leather Getaway, austin Kink Weekend, some of these other events that have education. I think those are the events to really go to, particularly if you're looking for mentorship, because you're going to find people who know things and who are sharing their knowledge.
Speaker 2:I completely agree. And then, going into that, we have to be able to want to, because mentorship is a service. Everything that we do as mentors or mentees that are that are looking for mentors, it is a service and it it should be a passion, not only just for your visibility, but to make sure that you are expanding leather culture and that that is changing and growing. And no matter if you're you're having trouble like I had trouble with the non-binary, with pronouns, with he, him, they and all of this stuff, and I'm still having challenges with that Yet I still stay on course to learn and evolve, because leather is going to be different. It was different from when I came in to now, and then it's going to be different when you and I are no longer here and they're expanding. They're expanding leather. So we have to be more cognizant that it's going to evolve, whether or not you're here in the way, trying to gatekeep or whatever. So we just need to be more accepting of our brothers and sisters, no matter where they're coming from.
Speaker 1:I just want to pause and say how powerful it is for a leader to say I'm struggling with something like pronouns, but I'm going to do the work, because it's important To really just admit that it's unusual for us or that it's something we have to get used to, but to also say I'm going to do the work, I'm not expecting other people to do the work. So I think that was a really powerful moment. You've talked about mentorship as a service. Obviously, it can take a lot of time and energy. Do you have any advice for people who want to mentor in terms of managing that, so that they don't burn out?
Speaker 2:Yeah, mentorship comes in so many different levels and even in the book I mentioned, whether or not it's a time, it's. What do you want, for instance, if you say, hey, master, do you mind mentoring me up to IML? I have like a calendar of these kids and I call them kids because they really are genuinely like my kids A calendar of people that I mentor. I have structured mentorships and then I have mentorships that I mentor people up to IML for different contests. They want to be mentored on Singletail, on Flogging, on Impact Play, everything that they know that I have a proficiency in. As far as teaching, I've mentored people specifically. But then you have contractual mentorships where there are time limits, and then you also have mentorships like the one that I have with Master Bruce, where it was for one year but it's evolved into more of a family member and a friendship and it's deep and it's powerful and it's intentional.
Speaker 2:So I mean you have different levels of mentorship. But it goes right back to negotiating what you need in mentorship and sometimes, just because, for instance, if it's someone that I look up to in the community and then I vet them and I have a conversation and I negotiate a mentorship with them, they could possibly have an element of mentorship that they're offering me that I disagree and then I move on to the next person. That's if I'm soliciting mentorship that strongly. But we have to keep in mind that, as we said earlier, no one person is going to have everything that you need in mentorship, especially if you're trying to be someone who is have an overall picture of the leather community and the kink community but ultimately Edge, it is about you becoming a better person, or a better leather man or leather woman or whatever you choose to be.
Speaker 2:That's what mentorship is, and finding those different people and mentors to pour into you, to become a better person.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So a couple of things you said that really resonated for me is mentorship isn't only a giving, like you get stuff out of it and then I'm flashing back, like I tell every boy who comes into my orbit that self-care is service, and it's true with mentorship too. Like you have to make sure you're taking care of yourself or you won't be available for mentees. So I love that you talked about. There's a whole spectrum. It doesn't mean you're meeting someone every week. It doesn't mean it's lifetime you're meeting someone every week. It doesn't mean it's lifetime that you can really structure it in a way that works with your available time and energy and offer them just that and then they can have other mentors to meet other needs. I think that's brilliant. Your book is really hard to find on Amazon, are you aware of?
Speaker 2:that and do you know why. Listen, if you can help me with that. I think specifically, and I've emailed Amazon can help me with that. I think specifically and I've emailed Amazon and I'm like, well, why is it so difficult to find? And I think because it mentions fetish and kink and all of that in there. I think the search engine just does not like the fact that that's the whole hashtags that trying to find the book is under, because it is under kink and fetish.
Speaker 1:I will have a link directly to it in the show notes for people who want to buy it. I will let everyone know I bought the Kindle edition and read it quickly. It's a quick read. It's very readable. It's very approachable. It's not super long. I read it at an airport, so it's available. We're going to make sure you find it and it's definitely worth the read. Any closing comments you'd like to make?
Speaker 2:I really appreciate that too, and the reason and I'm just going to give you this little nugget the reason that I wrote the book that is very subject matter specific is so that you can read the chapter and it's easily digestible for you just to process it. And I hope that everyone loves this book as much as I enjoyed writing it because it was. It was a very painful process for me to write, but I'm glad that now I can share not only just my experiences with the world, but we can grow together, even just with this book or volume two on leather leadership. I just hope that everyone enjoys it.
Speaker 1:Wow, what a great ending. Thank you so much for making time in your crazy travel schedule to talk with us today.
Speaker 1:Anything for you, anything All right, thanks, and now it's time for Ask Edge, the segment where I answer questions from all of you. If you would like to submit a question, you can either give me a voicemail at speakpipecom slash leatheredge L-T-H-R-E-D-G-E, or you can send an email at ask at fullc dot show, that's ask at full cow dot show, and that information is available in the show notes. Also, I should apologize. I should have done this in the introduction. I should apologize for the audio quality you might be experiencing in this episode. I am recording this on.
Speaker 1:Easter, march 31st, in Florida it is an absolutely stunningly gorgeous day, so I do have my window open, so if you hear some traffic noises in the background, my apologies, but it is a really beautiful day and probably one of the last beautiful days we're going to have here in hot and humid Florida. And our first question isn't really a question but a comment and a suggestion from Aaron.
Speaker 3:Hi, my name is Aaron. I go by E-R-I-K-1-1 on Recon. A submissive of mine referred me to your podcast and asked me to listen to your Dominance episode and I really, really enjoyed it and I wanted to tell you I really appreciate the work that you're doing. I also wanted to tell you that I've published a book called the Dom's Guide to Tickling. I published it like maybe seven years ago now and I do. You know education classes, teaching people, you know general dominance and tickling, and if you would ever want to get a copy of my book, I would gladly send it to you. And if you ever want to do a segment on tickling and if you would ever want to get a copy of my book, I would gladly send it to you. And if you ever want to do a segment on tickling, let me know. Also, if you're going to be at CLAW, I'm teaching there in April, so keep doing what you're doing. I think it was fantastic and I really admire you for being there for the community.
Speaker 1:Aaron, thank you so, so much.
Speaker 1:I was just texting yesterday with a dear, dear friend of mine about all the work I had to do on the podcast and he was like I thought it was supposed to be fun and it is a lot of work, and so when I get messages like this, it really keeps me going. The podcast is the only content I produce on a schedule and that means I'm constantly thinking what's the next episode? When am I going to record this segment? Who am I going to interview? When can I schedule that interview? When do I have time to edit? It's something that is on my to-do list for every single weekend. It doesn't mean I do it every weekend, but it's on the to-do list every single weekend. So hearing from people like you it keeps me going, because there are many times where I think, good Lord, this isn't a lot of fun. It's not a lot of fun, it is a lot of work, but it is worthwhile if I'm able to provide a resource to the community. Also, I would love to do an episode on tickling at some point. I'm saving your info and I will reach out to you, and there are a number of topics I'd like to cover that I just don't know right Like I only have so many skills, so many fetishes, so much expertise, so when there are people who are really knowledgeable about something that I can have here on the podcast and we can sort of do a big long episode, extended episode, about a topic where they're providing a lot of the education. I love that. So please expect to hear from me soon.
Speaker 1:And our next question comes from Emmett, who asks when do you see the place of transmasculine people within the gay leather scene and where do we go from here to further grow together as a community? A little context for you Established cis leathermen often are apprehensive about transmasc people in their spaces, especially if the trans or non-binary person hasn't medically transitioned and doesn't pass as a cis man. But gender-affirming care is not an option for everyone. While this can be frustrating, I often feel that there are a lot of fears and apprehensions on both sides that could be eased by coming more in contact with each other. My question is based on my own and my friends' experiences in Europe, so maybe things are different in the US.
Speaker 1:I'm also interested about the evolution of your own views about gender diversity and inclusion in the leather scene. You're the only gay kinky podcast host I know of who consistently asks their guests for pronouns and has guests of different genders on Emmett. Thank you so much for this question. I do ask pronouns. The way we normalize it is by everyone doing it. All the time I have my pronouns in my Twitter profile and I remember once I got a comment like this guy is giving his pronouns and my response was yeah, I'm exactly the kind of guy who should be doing this. That's how things get normalized. I have been through an evolution in relation to my gender diversity. You know there was a group here in Fort Lauderdale God a decade ago, two decades ago.
Speaker 1:It was a really long time ago and I was one of the founding members ago two decades ago. It was a really long time ago and I was one of the founding members and at some point the transgender question came up like will we allow non-AMAB people into the club? And at that time I was like no bio males need a space to call their own, and that was my position. One of the other members, bear man, who has always, in my experience, been supportive of trans people, was really virulently. He was really strongly in favor of allowing trans people into the club and left the club because of that. That was the real beginning of my journey towards a better understanding of all of this. Now I mean also I will say, since I'm recording this on the trans day of visibility the visibility of trans people around me and in leather spaces also made me change. So I absolutely agree with you where, if we can come into contact more with each other, a lot of the apprehensions tend to disappear. I was also really influenced by Buck Angel right. I really got exposed to a better understanding of trans people through relationships I had by seeing them in my virtual spaces, in my social media, by meeting them at events, all of those things, and I'm still evolving, but I'm doing the work. I am doing the work I need to do. That harkens back to the interview in this episode, right? So where do we go from here to further grow together as a community?
Speaker 1:Well, I will say the generation behind me, the younger generation of leather folk, are kicking ass when it comes to stuff like this, and I really suspect it's really in part a question of how do I want to put this. It's time for us old-timers to age out. I think some people of my generation struggle with pronouns, struggle with trans people and are maybe not as connected to younger generations or to conversations going on and therefore a little resistant. I'm really blessed that I've had the exposure I've had. That really helped me change my mind and helped me really embrace people of any gender. I don't care what gender you are. You're in part of my community and that's a blessing, that is a privilege I've been given and I don't know that all of my peers, broadly speaking, of gay leather men around my age I don't know if they've all had that same exposure, because obviously we all tend to create friends, very small friend circles, and so if you're a gay leather man and all your friends are gay leather men and you're living in a gay leather community, then you might be set in certain ways. It's also worth noting that a lot of men of my generation have been through layers of trauma in becoming leather people and really had to march on Washington, had to take care of friends who were dying of HIV and AIDS. Right, there's a lot of reason. There's a lot of woundedness, not in a kind of hurt people hurt people kind of way, but there's a lot of woundedness, a lot of what we had to fight for that we want to hang on to. That's not to excuse them, but it is my attempt to understand them. I do not see any of this in younger generations and I think the great example of this is MIR, which is no longer Mr International Rubber but is MIR, and I think there's been a real perception that MIR is a little forward-thinking as a title and I really think they're pointing the way to the future. So I suspect that as we go forward and as younger leather folk rise into positions of leadership, this will become more and more normalized, hopefully.
Speaker 1:Obviously, the political climate right now is really troubling for all of us, but here's the thing. Oh, it's in one of my videos on Twitter, the reason I make space at the leather bar for people of all genders. I don't care how you identify, I don't care if you're queer. I want you in my leather bar Because, first of all, queer. I want you in my leather bar because you never. Because first of all, they are coming to kill us all. They are coming to kill us all and when that active shooter walks into my leather bar, it might be the drag queen who tackles him to the ground, it might be the trans woman who kicks away the gun, it might be the straight guy who's there with a friend right pummeling him in the face.
Speaker 1:This was the shooting in Colorado, I think, where a lot of people of diverse genders and sexualities came together to stop a shooter. So I want everyone in my bar and that's my position and I'm hoping that's the future way ahead of two. In part because the political climate kind of demands us. It demands that we let everybody in because there's a little bit of safety in numbers. It's not great, right, like we can get killed on moss, but it is a little bit of safety in numbers and that's part of why I want to be inclusive. It's not just because it's the right thing to do, it is also a way of protecting myself and my community. So I want you all in, and I think the younger generation is going to make sure that happens. And finally, we have a question from Sal.
Speaker 4:Hello, ange. My name is Sal. I recently came out as a queer man while being married in a heterosexual relationship, and I have kids. My wife is aware of my situation. We are maintaining constant communication. We are together in this adventure. Get in this adventure by now. I'm exploring my interests, attending events and socializing, mostly meeting people. I found that the leather scene offers a safe space for newcomers like me, so we can explore my same-sex attraction and kinks in a more secure environment. Most of people respect boundaries and many people are well-versed in kink and leather culture. My challenge is that I'm too new and even finding a mentor, I feel that it's too soon to think about that. I'm also concerned about inclusion. As you can hear, I'm from Latino origins and, finally, I'm a married man. Could you provide maybe two top three recommendations for people curious about the scene as well potential challenges that we may encounter? Thank you.
Speaker 1:First of all, sal, I just want to applaud everything you said that you are exploring your sexuality, you are open and honest with your wife she is on board with this that you are undoubtedly still a good father to your children. That you have found the leather community a place that is safe for exploration. Everything you've said sounds like you're doing things extraordinarily well. As far as my top three recommendations for people curious about the scene and potential challenges you may encounter, first of all, I think being honest with those you encounter is going to be really important, and some people will be like I'm not playing with someone who has kids. I'm not playing with someone who's married, but I know gay leather men with kids. I know gay leather men who are married, and so there are others like you and you will find people this is generally true Whoever you are. Whatever your quote unquote it's complicated type of situation you will probably find someone who understands it and is still willing to connect with you Now. Maybe they won't even have sex with you, but perhaps they'll connect with you Now. Maybe they won't even have sex with you, but perhaps they'll connect with you and serve as that support. That is one of the beautiful things about the leather community and it has a lot of problems. I don't want to make it sound utopian, but I think because we're already outsiders, we're already rejected by society and, honestly, because there aren't that many of us, we're really positioned and forced to be a little accepting of others and in their complexity.
Speaker 1:The second recommendation, besides being honest about who you are, because you will find someone to connect with, the second is to pursue education, and that is important to help identify the things you want to explore. You know, I have a lot of newcomers who come to me and they don't even know what they're into and that's really challenging for me. When I play with them they're kind of assuming like I'm going to have an agenda. My agenda is always based on a person's interests and where they want to end up and what their buttons are, and if I don't know what those things are, then it makes it harder for me to make things happen in a scene. So you're going to want to explore porn. You're going to want to explore social media. You're going to want to explore education, to begin to identify the things that you're into as a newcomer in general, that you're into as a newcomer in general.
Speaker 1:Third recommendation is don't be in a rush. I can remember when I first I mean my first sexual encounter period, I made the guy go home and tie me up. Bad idea, bad idea. I was 18 at the time, so I will say that, oh, actually, I was 17. Good Lord, I was young. In general, you don't want to rush because when you rush, you can get yourself into situations that probably are not the best for you.
Speaker 1:So slow down, take your time, talk, get to know people, have coffee with them, slowly build enough trust to enter into a scene with them. So my top three recommendations for people who are curious in the scene are be honest about who you are, figure out what you want and take your time. You know. The other reason to take your time like this is an incredible, incredible, incredible stage of your life. Whoever, whoever you are, if you're just entering kink like everything is exciting and everything's terrifying. You're just entering kink. Everything is exciting and everything's terrifying, granted, but everything is exciting, and I remember getting so aroused at the beginning by meeting actual leather people and feeling leather, and every encounter had something magical about it because it was the first time. For me, it's only the first time, one time. So a reason to go slow is to really savor the very special joy you might be experiencing right now.
Speaker 1:Things to watch out for there are a lot of people who are not good matches for others, and some of it's because of the wounds they carry.
Speaker 1:Some of it's because they're trying their best but they don't have education, they don't have mentoring, they don't exactly know what they're doing. So you really really want to be careful and watch out for getting hurt, and I mean that emotionally, spiritually, physically, the leather community can be. We have a lot of challenges still around inclusion, as you marked. Now I will say I'm in South Florida, where being Latin is almost like a separate fetish. There are a lot of people in South Florida who really only like Latin guys. So you know Latins don't have a problem everywhere. But certainly people of color in general do still have challenges in this community, and that is something to be considering. And it's not just people of color. We're thinking more broadly about what are the challenges people are going to face If you're not able-bodied, if you are married, if you have kids, right, all of these other dimensions of identity that don't fit the kind of Tom of Finland, body diversity. If you don't fit the Tom of Finland ideal, it can be a lot more challenging for you.
Speaker 1:And that in part. Like you know, like you're, I'm really. No, I'm just going to say that is our failing as a community, that we really at least need to make space for everyone. I don't know that we always do that. So bad actors who are doing it on purpose or accidentally.
Speaker 1:Challenges around inclusion, and then the third thing. The third challenge I would say is, if you're just getting into kink is that it requires a lot of economic privilege. Leather is not cheap. Rubber is not cheap. Floggers are not cheap. Really good rope is not cheap. There's a significant economic investment required to feel like you're on the inside of the community. Now, is that absolutely true? No, you don't really need leather to be a leather person. You don't really need a flogger. You can do spanking, you can go to Home Depot or a hardware store and find any number of sex toys, but I do think that to really feel like you're in the inside, it does require a set of economic privileges. So let me see if I can remember everything I said. I'm probably going to forget something.
Speaker 1:Three recommendations for those who are new or curious are be honest I forget the second one and slow down. Be honest, know what turns you on and slow down. And then the three risks or considerations. As you're getting new is there are some bad actors, intentional or unintentional. There is an inclusion issue we're going to have to address and hopefully we do that by people like Sal showing up in the community, and then there's a kind of economic privilege involved.
Speaker 1:Otherwise, sal, I'm just so grateful for your question. I love that you exist and that you're really then become this power of example for someone else who is listening, who has kids or who is married and does not know how to fit into the community. You're providing a pathway for others to know it is possible and that's important. That's it for Ask Edge and that's it for this episode. This time I'm grateful for all of you, I'm grateful for the questions and I'm grateful for the feedback and this episode is done and that's it for this episode. Thank you so much for joining me. Please consider subscribing or you can send feedback to edge at full cow dot show, as always. May your leather journey be blessed.