Dehners

Welcome to Full Cow, a podcast about leather and kink where your host, Edge (he/him), shares his 30+ years of experience in the community. The topic is Dehners and this is how my podcast host's AI describes it:

Ever wondered why a pair of boots could carry such weight in a community? Tune in to Full Cow as we uncover the profound legacy of the Dehner Boot Company, celebrated for their iconic Dehner Patrol boots. From their cavalry origins to their revered status among motorcycle patrol officers and fetish enthusiasts, these knee-high, leather boots have left an indelible mark. With Dehner ceasing production, we explore the ripple effects on our community and suggest resilient alternatives like tall engineer boots and Wesco's Boss boots. Join us as we honor the enduring style and spirit that define our culture, proving that even the loss of a beloved brand can't dampen our resilience.

Additionally, we navigate the intricate and often misunderstood practice of breath control and choking within BDSM. Responding to a question from an admirer in Ireland, we clarify the nuanced differences between suffocation, asphyxiation, and choking, each carrying unique erotic energies and specific risks. Emphasizing the utmost importance of safety and awareness, we share personal insights and encourage mindful exploration of these fetishes. This episode offers an engaging and educational discussion aimed at enriching your understanding and participation in the ever-evolving dynamics of the leather and fetish communities.

Chapters

• 0:18 The Legacy of Daner Boots
• 18:23 Daner Boots and Dating Expectations
• 32:25 Breath Control and Choking in BDSM

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:18

Let's talk about Daners, that you are an adult. Welcome to Full Cow, a podcast about Leather King and BDSM. My name is Edge, my pronouns are he, him, and I'm your host, and this time we have a very special episode of Full Cow, and a very sort of sad one. In case you've not heard the news, the Daner Boot Company, which has been significant to our community for quite a while, will be ceasing production. In fact, by the time you're listening to this, it is too late to order new Daners.

Speaker 1: 1:11

They stopped taking orders on May 31st, so in this episode we're going to reflect on what Daners are and why they matter and think about some alternatives available to you. I was hoping to have an interview, but that is difficult sometimes to schedule with the way lives move and intersect in complex ways, so perhaps I will be able to feature that in a coming interlude. But I do have an Ask Edge segment, so I hope you enjoy this episode about Dana Boots.

Speaker 1: 1:44

It's not my best maybe, but it's a pretty good episode and hey, let's get it started. Let me give you this entire episode in a nutshell. The Daner Boot Company is no longer making boots. If you are listening to this episode, you're too late, because they stopped taking orders at the end of May. The good news is that you do not need Daynor boots Now.

Speaker 1: 2:16

All that being said, let me step back a little bit and talk about what exactly Daynors are. What do we mean when we say Daners in a leather context? It's a company that makes a lot of kinds of boots, and they even make dress shoes. But when leather folk talk about Daners, they are talking about the Daner Patrol boot, and this is a knee-high boot which is a solid, shining shaft of leather with a thin strap at the very top that buckles behind and usually not always lacing at the instep. We'll talk more about the lacing in a little bit.

Speaker 1: 2:55

This is a classic sort of motorcycle patrol boot that you would see on a California highway patrol or something like that. In fact, mass state troopers do order their boots through Daners, so that's the kind of boot Daner is known for. They started making boots in 1875 in Kansas, and they started by making cavalry boots for local cavalry officers. Now, that's an important reminder that almost nothing that we use in a Leather King context we invented ourselves. Instead, what we do is borrow from other contexts, usually contexts that are saturated with power, and then we make appropriate fetish uses of those things. Now, it also means that in the original context, the things we're using had a specific form-function connection. So, since we're talking about cavalry boots, you are going to want protection for your shins, protection for your legs, and that's why these are so tall.

Speaker 1: 3:59

They're knee-high for the purposes of protection. Obviously, cavalry became mounted police became motorcycle cops on their iron horses. So we're talking about a motorcycle cop patrol boot that comes from an origin of a military cavalry officer and has the function of protecting the legs. The thing about Daner boots what they're kind of known for and it's not like they invented it, it's just sort of one of their distinctive features is lacing at the instep of the boot and it's usually done as ball lacing. Ball lacing the term comes from Balmoral boots, which were popular in the 1800s, and it's a kind of ladder lacing. So the laces are going straight across from eyelet to eyelet and the laces meet in the middle. So if you're looking at the instep of a boot, there's ladders from the top and ladders from the bottom and then at the very instep there's a bow where the knot is tied, and that is ball lacing. So Daner's been in business for almost 150 years. They are no longer going to be making boots. Hopefully.

Speaker 1: 5:10

I hope to have a guest who'd tell us more about that story and his adventure connected to it, and it matters to fetish people. I mean, when I found this news I was shocked and I had to verify it because it's sort of dangerous. If it's fake news it could have caused a panic. I verified it and then, when I put it out on my social media, a lot of people were surprised and a lot of people were disappointed that they would never be able to get Daynor boots. They have a standing in the community. They are one of our major brand names Wesco, dayner, lucchese, senja oh God, I don't even think of anyone. Oh, langlets, right, like all the big ones, all the big brand names that sort of have meaning to us as a community that we're able to talk to each other and share a common language. Dana is part of that and we're losing it. Maybe there is a slim chance someone will buy the business, but I don't think that's likely and we'll hear more about that later. I hope so. It's a big deal for leather folk because this is one of our major iconic boots. It is one of the major manufacturers of those iconic boots. It is part of our cultural language that we use to talk to each other.

Speaker 1: 6:37

But you don't really need Daners at all, need Daners at all, and that's because, as a leather culture, we've evolved a lot of other options. These are uniform boots, period, and that means you would want to wear them with some sort of breeches, maybe with jeans that are tucked in. And they are beautiful boots. They are quite dressy and they take a shine, but the goodness is really, any tall engineer boot will serve the same function as a Daner boot. You know almost all of my uniforms. I wear Wesco's with mine, my tall Wesco, my boss boots. My own story with Daner is complicated. I didn't get Daners until about midway in my leather journey I want to say it was about 2010,. Right, so 15 years ago, and I was assembling a particular uniform and I decided that I finally needed a pair of Daners to go with them.

Speaker 1: 7:44

They were not cheap boots. Daners are not cheap boots and I didn't even get the full custom. I got stock but they were still, I think, about $500. Not cheap boots. And I finally had my Daners. I finally had this uniform.

Speaker 1: 8:03

I was finally happy for a moment before I craved the next leather item I wanted, but my Daners cracked. What do I mean by that? I mean that I thought that shaft, that beautiful, tall, shining leather shaft with that delicate thin strap at the top, with the buckle. I thought, understandably, it was made of leather. No, no, I don't know what the hell it was made of, but there was some sort of cotton material underlay with some sort of coating on top and that coating cracked, cracked and just showed all this white stuff underneath. This came from normal wear and tear. You know, it's not like I'm abusing my Daynor boots, it's not like I abuse any of my boots. Thank you very much.

Speaker 1: 8:58

I was less than happy. I was deeply disappointed. This wasn't like cheapo boots off Amazon. This wasn't knockoff brand. This wasn't Daner's super affordable entry model. No, this was their boot. And they were ruined, absolutely ruined, because, from what I could see, they were made of crap. They were crappy boots and so for years I was not a fan of Daner and I know from conversations that I'm not the only person who had this problem. Now, I did not keep anything in the shafts of my Daners. Like you can put an empty soda bottle in them or a pool noodle, or stuff it with newspaper. There are boot shapers. I did nothing to keep the shaft from sagging because I have Wesco's.

Speaker 1: 10:00

I have leather-lined Wesco's. You don't have to put anything inside of leather-lined Wesco's because they are simply very obedient boots and hold their shape very well. So I wasn't even thinking about that. So that might've played some part in it. But the places where the cracks were were down by the ankle and it was very clear that it was just sort of they used crappy material and I had spent a lot of money on this ultra luxury name brand central to our community boot and they turned out to be crap, absolute crap. I was down on Daner for years over a decade, I would say.

Speaker 1: 10:38

Recently I did get another pair.

Speaker 1: 10:41

So, there was a period of time where I would have people visiting me and when they would come to visit I would take them to Stomper's Boots and they would always end up getting a pair of boots. I was just sort of like I should have been making a commission. I was sort of the evangelist of Stomper's Boots and I would bring people in and they would get a pair of new boots or they would find something there that they had on consignment. I was making good money for Stompers. And then the risk of this, of course, is that every time they're looking for boots, I'm looking at boots too, and I don't even know what made me think to try Daynor again. Part of it was probably the fact that the person working the store told me that they had in stock Daynor boots with an extra wide calf, because I have pretty meaty calves. So I'm like, okay, let me try a pair on. And then I really expressed my consternation with my last pair of boots and I was told oh yeah, that was a common problem. They changed, they're not like that anymore. And then the salesperson also told me there's a YouTube video that will tell you how to properly break in the ankles on Daynor boots. It's not hard to find. If you go to YouTube and you search Daynor boot ankle, you will find it. So I said okay, because I am voracious when it comes to leather, I will get a pair of boots again, and this time I did get the boot shapers and I got the little pull-on hooks and they've been serving me well.

Speaker 1: 12:14

I still don't wear them as much as my Wesco's. I tend to wear, with most uniforms, my Wesco Boss or my Wesco Harness boots, because they're comfortable, they're functional, particularly if I'm traveling. I can wear them in a lot more ways. Like Daner feels like a very specific look. There are some uniforms that I really feel require Daners. Probably the biggest is sometimes I will wear my well-fitting cloth, california Highway Patrol uniform, and I feel like that really calls for Daners. I'll also say I'm getting a pair of custom pants from Fetish Daddy and should have them in my hands a week from this recording.

Speaker 1: 13:05

I'm recording this on Saturday May 18th and in my head they kind of also demand Dayners. We'll see. We will see as well, because I'm picking them up at IML. And how many pairs of boots can I bring to IML? I don't know if I can bring two pair of boots, two pair of tall boots, we'll see Because a good size checked piece of luggage, right, just your good 27-inch bag that you're going to check at the airport. Half of that bag is my Wesco's, that is, half a suitcase is one pair of boots. So I am bringing two checked bags so theoretically I could have a pair of Daners in the other. It's a little complicated because it's going to be chilly in Chicago and I need to pack leather jackets as well. That's a little bit all off topic. The point is I have forgiven Daner mostly. I'm still mindful of the fact that as far as I'm concerned, they had quality issues, that as far as I'm concerned, they had quality issues. But I am happy to have a pair of Daners and happier now knowing that I may have one of the last pair of Daners, right, that feels pretty special. And there are certain select items just select items in my leather collection that really summon the Daners and kind of demand them.

Speaker 1: 14:35

For most leather folk you do not need Daner boots. Let me repeat that For most leather folk you do not need Daner boots. You know my general spiel when it comes to leather folk in boots is that you really only need four pair of boots. You need a pair of tall pull-on, a pair of short pull-on, a tall lace-up and a short lace-up. So tall pull-on can be an engineer boot, knee-high engineer boot, like a Wesco Boss. Tall pull-on can be an engineer boot, knee-high engineer boot like a Wesco Boss. A short pull-on maybe that's your cowboy boots, maybe that's a pair of harness boots. Tall lace-up is probably going to be a logger or lineman. Short lace-up could be a logger, it could be a combat boot. Those four kinds of boots you are covered for 98.396% of leather occasions or leather outfits you might want to wear. And when I do travel, I generally bring my tall Wesco's and my short lace-up Wesco's and then that's plenty. Right, like I've covered everything In that formulation.

Speaker 1: 15:59

You don't need dainers, you just need a pair of tall pull-on boots, and engineer boots work brilliantly. They work really well with leather uniforms. They work great with jeans. I've certainly worn them with cloth uniforms. So you do not need Daners. However, some people will crave that look. In part, I think, because Daners do take a shine. Wesco's are an oil tan boot and there are processes where you can kind of get a shine on an oil tan boot, but they're really not designed to take a shine the way something like a Daner boot is. So one reason people like Daners is because they're shiny. Oh look, they're so shiny. They're so shiny. Of course that means there's a lot more care involved to keep them shiny. So you may crave also the lace at the instep. You may crave the particular vibration of power that comes with that style of boot.

Speaker 1: 17:00

Well, good news, there's still some other manufacturers. There used to be a manufacturer called Bates and I went Googling before this episode and I'm putting in like Bates motorcycle and then Google's auto-completing is discontinued. So I actually went to the Bates website. It doesn't look like they are making their motorcycle patrol boot anymore. Wesco does make a motorcycle patrol boot. I don't think they should. I don't think it's a pretty boot. I would never buy a pair. I just think it's Wesco overreaching. I just don't think it's what Wesco does. Well. But there is a company called All-American Boot that makes a really good-looking motorcycle patrol boot looking motorcycle patrol boot, and you can get laces at the top. But you can also get that Daner style buckle at the top and you can get them ball laced with the lacing at the instep, and I'm pretty sure they sell them without ball lacing as well. You can go to StompersBootscom. They have All-American Boots. You can go to allamericanbootcom I will include these links in the show notes and the prices are well, they're not cheap.

Speaker 1: 18:23

Boots are not cheap. Leather is not cheap, but they're certainly not outrageous. So if you are someone who always wanted Daynor boots, now if you wanted Daner boots because of the mystique, because they are Daner, then here are your options. Now, if you're listening to this, when this episode drops, which would be June 7th, you might, might, might check the Stomper Boots website because they have stock Daners. Now you're listening to this post-IML and I am almost certain that pretty much any standard size of Daner boot is going to be gone by the end of IML because word is out and people are going to be snapping them up.

Speaker 1: 19:14

However, you might want to check Stomper Boots first and then, if you're really into the Daner mystique and like no, no, no, I don't just want tall, shiny motorcycle patrol boots, I want Daners then your other options to start searching in secondary markets like eBay and your chances there are what they are, that's if you need the Daynor Mystique. But I don't really think you need the Daynor Mystique. I don't really think you need Daynors at all, but I don't think my experience with them has been so uneven that I feel like, yeah, I'd almost rather have a pair of boots I can trust and not a pair of boots that's going to crack. So I'm not that much into the Dayner Mystique. I'm into the look. So if you're just like, okay, I can let go of the name Dayner, I don't need the fancy name, I just need that style boot.

Speaker 1: 20:07

All-american boot is going to be your option, and they were recommended to me by someone on Instagram who has direct experience with them. I do see them listed on the Stompers Boots website, which tells me that, yeah, they're pretty reliable or Stompers wouldn't be carrying them. When I look at them on the website, they seem almost too shiny. I don't know. I'm just not. I don't know what they look like or feel like in person, because there's a uncanny valley when it comes to boot shininess. Right, like you really want to kind of sense the leather underneath the shine and not have a shine that's so shiny that it almost looks like plastic. And granted, I'm looking at these boots on a website.

Speaker 1: 20:59

I don't know that. I've seen them in Stompers, which they've shut down their store. They're only doing web sales right now, so it's not like I could even go inspect them. So I don't know if they're so shiny that they look plasticky, but that's my intuitive sense from some web shopping. And that, my friends, is the story of Daner, a boot company that existed for almost 150 years 50 years a boot company that has earned a place in the cultural language of the leather community, which has earned a place in our erotics and our mythos and our praxis of sex and gear. And all of that, dayner Boots 150 years almost is ceasing production. They're not going out of business. That is also an important distinction. It's not like nobody was buying their boots. They were making plenty of money.

Speaker 1: 22:01

There is a complicated story which you will hopefully hear in the interview later in this segment. So they're not going out of business, they are ceasing production. By the time you hear this, they have already stopped taking new orders. You do not need Daynor boots. If you want something that looks like Daynor boots, then get yourself some all-American boot boots. And that's the story of Daynor and that's the story of Daner. Now I will also say, just as an ending note, this happens in the fetish community before Very few of you. First of all, I don't even know. Many of you may or may not know Hubbard's shoe grease. Right, this is the stuff of boot blacking. Hubbard's grease is this sort of non-toxic slash edible goop that is perfect for oil tan boots, and there was a time probably in the early millennium.

Speaker 1: 23:03

I want to say early millennium, when the word was oh my God, hubbard's is going out of business. I still have like half a case of Hubbard's that I bought in a panic of hoarding when I heard they were going out of business. And then someone bought the company. Damascus, the glove maker, went out of business and then someone bought the patterns. So it's entirely possible that by the time you're hearing this, they will already be negotiating a new owner and Daner will continue unimpeded. The stuff that I'm hearing is maybe not, maybe not, but we'll see.

Speaker 1: 23:41

Because Daners aren't just important to us. They are important to actual police departments around the country, like all of the mass state troopers have Daners. They have a very special, specific role with a couple of organizations. If you are real crazy on boots, you probably know that Texas A&M's cadet corps called the Aggies has a very specific set of brown leathers, including brown boots, and those are Daners as well. So Daner is not just important to us, they're important to many communities. Plus, let me also point out let me go all the way back these were originally equestrian boots, and Daner is still big in equestrian writing too. I think equestrian writers probably have more choices, but Daner is a major manufacturer with a lot of cultural significance in a lot of different areas, so it'll be interesting to see if they truly cease production. Regardless of whether or not they do, we're going to be fine. I will certainly take extra care of my Daners, because I'll never be able to get another pair as of this moment, but I also won't baby them. I'm not going to baby my boots.

Speaker 1: 24:55

I'm going to live in them because I know that I don't need the Daner name. I really, really don't. You don't need it either, and if you want something that looks like the Daner, you have options. So it's a complicated moment. I think as a community we are in a kind of mourning or grieving, perhaps premature, but practically and logistically speaking we will go on and we do have options. So hold on to that. Thank you. Welcome to Ask Edge. This is the segment where I answer questions from all of you. If you would like to submit a question, you can email it to ask at fullcalshow or, even better, leave me a voicemail at speakpipecom. Slash leatheredge L-T-H-R-E-D-G-E and that information is available in the show notes. We have two questions today, and the first comes from Hoosier Leatherman, first time inquirer but longtime fan.

Speaker 1: 25:57

Just like you, I've been trying to date recently and it's been a bit of a garbage experience. I usually find men to go on dates with, from meeting them at the bar, clicking and planning on getting to know each other more over dinner or coffee. Then, when the date happens and I show up, I get the impression that these men are disappointed that I turn out not to be the fantasy they imagined. I'm less of the dom-slash-top-slash-daddy-slash-sir-kinky-sex-fantasy. They wanted me to be, and I'm actually the geek with the leather fetish. My question is what am I doing wrong? How do I navigate other people's expectations, or are other people a problem? Has porn Twitter? The lack of interaction with other men in person led men to think that we are just sex objects. Wow, what a great question. Of course, I'm a horrible person to answer it, because I am also trying to date, and it absolutely is a garbage experience. What I will say, though, is that, in general, my experience has been that when I discover a problem in my life, there's a good chance some part of it belongs to me and some part of it does not, and my job is to figure out which part of that is mine to deal with and which part is theirs and therefore none of my business and something I need to let go of. So that's work for you to do. If I were doing that work, if I'm looking from the outside, I might suggest that if you are meeting these men in the bar, and if you are in the bar as dom top, daddy, sir, kinky sex fantasy, then that might be something you want to shift, and that might mean going to the bar as a geek with an interest in leather, it might mean trying to meet people not at the bar. That's really challenging, because if I want to meet people who are into leather, where am I going to go besides the leather bar? But from the outside, if I were like, okay, what could his part be? It might be where you're meeting them initially and what expectations that creates in that moment. However, obviously part of this is on them as well.

Speaker 1: 28:04

I know that in my experience I find often people not just with me, but with dominant people in general that submissive people who are so often hungry and searching for authentic dominant-submissive connections. When they find someone with a dominance, I find they tend to project onto me those desires that I tend to become just a flat screen upon which they project their fantasies. And you know what. That's great, it's hot, I can work with that, I know what it is, I know how to handle it, I know what to do with it. I know all of that. However, that's not all of who I am and if we're thinking about a dating context, I need someone who can see the whole of me and not just that part of me, and I think sometimes when people are locked into that one perspective. And again, because I often tend to think the best of people, I feel like a lot of people get locked into that perspective, not because they don't know I'm human or don't care that I'm human, but because they've been so hurt and so hungry and looking for so long that that desperation kind of erupts, the need and hunger spills out onto me. I get that. I get that.

Speaker 1: 29:28

I don't have a solution here because I've given up dating. I just don't even know how to meet men. I don't even know where to look anymore. I don't find them at the leather bar. I don't find them on Facebook. I don't find them on social media. I don't find them on recon. I don't find them in the rooms of 12-step recovery. I literally have looked all the places.

Speaker 1: 29:49

I know the other thing that might be useful for you in terms of managing expectations be really explicit about that before you meet for the coffee and say, hey, I just need to be really honest, because I've had a lot of poor experiences with men who expect me to show up as one thing when really I'm this complex human being. So if you're just looking for me to be that fantasy thing, then maybe we shouldn't meet for coffee and maybe we can play sometime. But I need someone who's really getting ready to get to know all of me and I just want to kind of set that up beforehand and so, being honest about your experiences in relation to expectations, not only will it manage those sets of expectations, but it really also offers an opening for intimacy, and seeing how they respond to that can tell you a lot about how you want to proceed, like when you're suddenly becoming vulnerable and talking about struggles you've had. Are they going to be supportive, are they going to be responsive, or are they going to run away? I don't know.

Speaker 1: 30:50

Good stuff to find out before you actually meet them for coffee. I wish you the best of luck. I will say that my perception is dating not only is a garbage experience, it's a garbage experience for everyone, it's hard for everyone, it is not fun for anyone. So you're not alone. I don't think I'm alone and I think there are a lot of us out there who are just sort of frustrated and I hope, by thinking about what part you might have to play in that situation and how you might change your behavior in relation to that situation, I hope that might help. I hope being honest about your past experiences and talking about how you've been frustrated by these coffee meetings might open up an opportunity for intimacy and I hope that some people are able to dislodge the depth of their hunger for a moment long enough to see a person as a full person, their hunger for a moment, long enough to see a person as a full person with the hope that they get the.

Speaker 1: 31:56

you know, daddy Dom tops her kinky person right. Because the truth is, if you see me as a whole person, that is a way of helping me to see you as a whole person, and if we see each other as whole people man, the dominant, submissive dynamic and the sex and all that is going to be a gazillion, gazillion times better. So I'm very hopeful for you. I wish you great luck in the garbage experience of dating and I hope you'll keep me posted and I hope you find someone. Our second question is from Ireland. Oh, my God, I love Irishmen and it is from Pod.

Speaker 2: 32:32

Hi there, I'm a great admirer of yours and I actually saw you in Dublin earlier this year and I meant to say hello. Just wondering what your opinion is on breath control and maybe choking as part of bondage and the sexual experience. And they're messaging you from Ireland.

Speaker 1: 32:54

Pod. I am crazy stupid, in love with all Irishmen. So next time you see me, please, please, take the opportunity to say hello. I'm so sorry I missed you. I don't know when I'll be back in Dublin, but hopefully again. Breath control yeah, obviously it's super hot. It's one of my main fetishes. I have thought about doing a podcast episode about it, but my concern is that it's dangerous. There are real, real risks that can be involved and I don't know what kind of liability or exposure I might have if I do a whole podcast episode on it.

Speaker 1: 33:36

Here are the things I will say quickly about breath control and choking. So, first of all, we want to differentiate between suffocation and asphyxiation. So suffocation is when someone is getting no air whatsoever and that might include plastic film over their nose and mouth, that is, hand over mouth, hum and glove over mouth gum. And then there's asphyxiation, where they're breathing but they're not breathing oxygen. So that has more to do with, like, plastic bags, rebreathers, things like that. And then there's choking, which is really ultimately about cutting off blood flow to the brain. So those are the three elements that circulate in the breath control arena. All of them are really hot and have their specific erotic energies and their specific risks. I actually find suffocation in some ways kind of the least risky because I have a very good sense of where the bottom is when I'm cutting off your air, I know when you start fighting for air and I know, therefore, when you're reaching your limit and I know when you need to breathe, and those are good things for me to know. And so something like HOM or GOM is a really great introduction, I think, to breath control in general.

Speaker 1: 35:00

Asphyxiation is a little riskier because just, let's say, you've got a rebreather mask on someone, right? So what's happening is carbon dioxide is building up in their blood because they keep rebreathing their same breath, which is running out of oxygen and is full of carbon dioxide. So when you take the rebreather mask off, yeah, okay, they're getting oxygen, but it takes a while for the carbon dioxide to get out of the blood and so if you don't time that really well, they could still be in trouble even though they're getting air. So asphyxiation has some risks Choking when we're cutting off blood to the brain. It's really complicated because you know there are a lot of incidents of police who have killed people in custody because of that. So I'm not going to say a whole lot about it because it is probably the riskiest form.

Speaker 1: 35:54

Now I'm talking about chokeholds, I'm talking about carotid sleeper kinds of holds where people are completely passing out. If you're just sort of in bondage and choking someone a little bit, that's going to be fine. Just always protect the trachea, because the trachea will go crunch. So that's the Adam's apple kind of area or the area in the front of the throat. So you just want to make sure that you're not squeezing, that you're squeezing more on the sides. Here's what else I will say.

Speaker 1: 36:23

I've met a surprising number of quote unquote vanilla people who totally get off on getting choked when fucked. Okay, it's this weird kind of entryway into some forms of kink. I think it has a lot to do with power and this sort of channeled aggression. That feels sexy. It feels like you're being taken. So my general take breath control is one of my main fetishes.

Speaker 1: 36:52

It has risks.

Speaker 1: 36:53

Given its risks, I'm not going to devote a whole episode to it, but it's fantastic.

Speaker 1: 36:58

A lot of people are into it and there are a lot of ways to do it.

Speaker 1: 37:06

But no matter how you do it, you want to be mindful of the risks if you're dealing with suffocation or asphyxiation or choking, because they are going to vary and then they become highest when you're cutting off blood to the brain, mostly, you know, because it can trigger heart attacks, it can trigger strokes.

Speaker 1: 37:19

I mean, it's just, and a lot of this is sort of probably unlikely. But you know, when I was younger I would choke people out all the time. I would just choke them out, choke them out, choke them out. But the older I've gotten, the more cautious I've gotten and the more I'm like I don't want to have to call the police, I don't want to take that risk. So it is a kind of edge play, I think, you know, because you're really playing on the edge of consciousness and the edge of possible harm to the body and that makes it super hot and super sexy. I think a lot of people are into it. I think there are ways to do it and I think it's absolutely valid and fantastic and I think you should keep doing it and I think next time you see me you need to run your iris ass over to me and say hey okay, okay, all right everyone.

Speaker 1: 38:11

Thank you for the questions. Please keep them coming, because without them I don't have a segment, and that's it for this episode. Thank you so much for joining me. Please consider subscribing, or you can send feedback to edge at fullcowshow, as always. May your leather journey be blessed.