Addiction

Welcome to Full Cow, a podcast about leather and kink where your host, Edge (he/him), shares his 30+ years of experience in the community. In this episode we look addiction.

You might want to check out Sober Leathermen (https://www.soberleathermen.org/) which can be a very handy resource.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:18

Let's talk about addiction, that you are an adult. Welcome to Full Cow, a podcast about leather, kink and BDSM. My name is Edge my pronouns are he, him and I am your host, and in this episode we'll be dealing with the very serious issue of addiction and its relation to leather and kink. In the first segment, I'll share with you some of my story as a recovering addict, and then in the second segment, I'll offer you some resources in case you or someone you love might have a problem with addiction. Then we'll finish up with some questions from Ask Edge and highlight a new feature called Fan Mail. This is a very challenging episode for me to do because it is more personal than I think any podcast episode I've done, but I've done my best and I think it's a good episode. So let's get started.

Speaker 1: 1:32

As I noted in the introduction to this episode, this is a very challenging, very challenging subject for me because it is so personal. You know, in general I've experienced a phenomenon lately where I will meet new people, people and they know things about me, and I'm always at first a little baffled until I realize they've simply been listening to the podcast. I often forget how much of my personal life I share here on the podcast and it's fantastic. I think that's the power of this podcast, of this. What I do here is that I'm just another person sharing my experience and maybe you learn from it. Maybe it's different from yours and you're able to recognize a diverse experience. I don't know. But I feel like simply sharing has a power. But at the same time, I have to often wonder what the limits are. At what point do I share too much? But this is a really important topic. This is a life or death issue. Let's not for any moment pretend that addiction does not kill people, because it does, and I know a lot of people who have died because of it. I don't know a lot of leather people, specifically, who have died because of addiction, and so, even if I feel like I'm putting myself out there a little bit extra, I think it's worth it.

Speaker 1: 3:01

You know, it's also weird for me to do this segment. This is the segment where I share my experience. I tell my story with the subject, my story with bondage, my story with boots, my story with chastity. But it's weird because in 12-step programs and I do follow a 12-step program pretty central to 12-step programs is sharing your story. It's sort of how, on some level it's part of how a 12-step program works, and so I've done meetings where I've shared my story. But this is a different kind of sharing. This is not a 12-step podcast. Nor do I want to push 12-step programs as the solution. It was the solution for me, it is a solution for some people, but I don't want to overemphasize it, and so I'm both telling my story in a way that's very familiar, that I've done a lot, and in a way that is completely new and different and makes me feel very vulnerable. So that's all the preface.

Speaker 1: 4:04

I grew up really, really, really straight-laced. I was very much a goody-two-shoes kind of person and didn't drink until, essentially, college. I grew up in New Orleans it is a drinking city and a lot of my peers in high school were drinking in high school. I did not. What I discovered is that I was not a very good drinker. What would happen is I would drink right and I'd get a buzz and I'd be like, wow, this feels really good, I'm going to drink more because I want to feel more of this, not realizing I already had enough alcohol in my system to increase the buzz. So I was drinking more and then I would get too drunk and then I would get sick and then I would have the worst hangovers. And as this is happening in my early college years, that is also my early leather years. Those were the same time. So I was experimenting with drinking as I was learning about leather and I was learning I was not a very good drinker and I would not be a successful alcoholic. I have the worst hangovers. So eventually and I was pretty hard-headed but eventually I learned how to moderate my drinking.

Speaker 1: 5:20

But from the start of my leather journey if you've listened to the first episode, you know about Mark and Wally, my gay leather parents From the beginning of that journey there were drugs and you know Mark and Wally would have parties at their place and sometimes there was LSD and sometimes there was coke or meth. I mean, I had a sampling of every gay drug available in the late 1900s and none of them really were. None of them stuck is what I would say. I'm like, oh, that's interesting. Okay, that was interesting, but I didn't experience any problems.

Speaker 1: 5:57

And so, although I was exposed to drugs pretty early on, I was not immersed in drugs in the early part of my leather journey and spent quite a, you know, like years, a decade or more, sort of not using drugs and being a leather person, and in that I'm really blessed, like I know some people whose entry into leather and kink was drugs and I'll talk about that a little bit later, I think. But I was pretty blessed to have an established leather track record without intoxication, and eventually I did learn I mean eventually I became a really smart drinker. I did not over drink. When I went out, I would have a single whiskey with my cigar, I would sip it all night and then I would go home. I learned the hard way, which is not to say that I was a normal drinker overall. That's not part of this story.

Speaker 1: 6:53

What happened was, interestingly, right around the time I was becoming Leather Edge. There was this real desire for intensity and darkness and dirtiness and this sort of more. I don't even know how to explain it, but I just wanted to be bad. I wanted to be bad, I wanted to experience dark things, and dark is such a loaded term in this community and when people tell me they're into dark stuff, I'm like, okay, well, that's really code for three or four different scenes that are really dangerous in different ways, and it's got to be one of these.

Speaker 1: 7:31

But I was really longing for dark stuff and as part of that I started doing crystal meth a little bit more. And you know, this is the insidious part of it Like I did it and I was like, oh, that was good. And then I would do it six months later. I'm like, oh, that was good. And then what started out as once a year became twice a year, became four times a year, became once a month, became, became, became. My usage slowly increased and as, uh, my drug use was increasing in some significant sense, my leatherness was decreasing.

Speaker 1: 8:10

So what would happen is, you know, I didn't really know anyone in the leather community using drugs, but like there was this sort of middle zone between the vanilla gaze and the kinky gaze, there were those people who were curious and what I ended up doing was trading my experience with leather and my gear and and my skillset for drugs.

Speaker 1: 8:32

Essentially, I was giving people leather experiences and they were giving me drugs, and I was kind of fortunate in that. You know my head, my use, my heavy using period, like the scope of my addiction was probably five years, probably started around 2000. And it was. You know, I was hitting bottom in 2005. And in that time I never became a daily user. I was very fortunate in that and I was very fortunate in that I had a couple of regular play partners who I did almost all my drug use with. So I was really blessed in that I was able to sort of have a relatively non-crazy, non-chaotic drug run in my addiction. And all that time I was becoming less and less of the leather person I wanted to be and I was aware of that.

Speaker 1: 9:29

I was aware of that. I was aware of the drugs were ascendant and my actual kink was descendant, because I would just get really high and then you can't really do anything kinky not the kink I was used to doing. You can't really do the kink I'm used to doing if you're really high. And so I think I was really using people. I was using people to get drugs period End of story. And it got to a point so I moved to Florida in 2005, and it got to a point where I had a really bad experience and put my life at risk. I'm not going to say severe risk, it was at risk Like, okay, I got a problem, I have a problem. And that began this turning point for me. I already knew I had a problem. I already knew something was wrong because for a long time I was trying to not do crystal meth.

Speaker 1: 10:30

I would be like I'm not going to do it this weekend and I would put in place all these crazy safeguards to keep me from doing it. And every, every, every, every single time I was doing it. I now think this is part of the essence of addiction, and if you've suffered from addiction, you know what I'm talking about. If you've not suffered from addiction, it's going to sound crazy, but what it's like is you want, with every ounce of your being, to not do something you don't want to do meth, you don't want to drink, you don't want to spend, you don't want to gamble, you don't want to act out sexually compulsively. You don't want to do it with every ounce of your will, every fiber of your being, and yet you can't stop yourself from doing it.

Speaker 1: 11:23

And it is baffling, and it is deeply demoralizing to realize how little control you have over your own actions, to have your mind betray you. That was my experience of addiction. I found recovery through a 12-step program and as part of that I decided if I was going to be free of addiction I had to put everything on the table, and that meant I didn't know if I'd keep my relationship and I didn't know if I'd be able to keep my leather life, because I didn't know what it would take for me to not use drugs again. And so I spent about a year putting leather on the shelf is the way I put it. I didn't go out, I didn't really have scenes, I wasn't playing with people, I was just focused on getting well and getting better. About a year maybe it was nine months, but it was a healthy length of time and for me it was really about consolidating a sort of sober life before even contemplating what else my life could be. And then I eased my way back into leather, and I did it, bringing with me this sort of spiritual sense that I had developed in my recovery. If you know 12-step programs, spirituality it's essentially about spirituality, and I was able to bring that with me, I was able to ask. I brought my spirituality into the playroom, into the bar, into the sex party. I brought that with me everywhere and that was a really remarkable gift, because what happened was I was able to connect back to my leather self, probably better, probably deeper than before. I even started using and that's pretty remarkable Excuse the throat clearing. And so I went on with my leather life as a sober person.

Speaker 1: 13:24

And then, you know, after my husband died that was in 2015, I returned to some fetishes of mine that necessitated some substances. It wasn't crystal meth, it was some other stuff and that happened. Oh God, that would have been starting in 2016. Right, so I got sober would have been starting in 2016. So I got sober, by the way, in 2006. And I've not used crystal meth since 2006. That's 18 years.

Speaker 1: 13:54

But starting in late 2016, I started slowly doing other things in the context of a kink scene, in the context of a fetish with someone local, and it involved GHB. And then, eventually, it involved ketamine as well and those substances. I sort of justified it. Like you know, this is my kink, this is a fetish, I'm not using it like drugs, and they didn't cause the same amount of misery or chaos that crystal meth caused in my life. But for a long time I knew that wasn't right. I knew it wasn't consistent with what I thought my sobriety should be. I knew I wasn't being honest with people in my life, and then that lasted until the end of 2021. And I was going through a breakup and as a result of that without going into too much details and not bringing, not telling other people's stories as a result of that I realized that I had not been honest and I needed to start over. So, as of January 1st 2022, I was like, hey, I'm starting over. And even though I had all this time clean off of crystal meth, I started from day one. And so right now, it is October 28th in 2024, so I have two years, nine months and 28 days sober of all mind-altering substances.

Speaker 1: 15:31

As we say, this has been a really beautiful journey for me. For me personally, that I've been able to become a better person and therefore also a better leather person. I've been able to become more whole and integrated. I compartmentalize things less, including I used to compartmentalize my leather life and now I feel like I'm really whole and complete and integrated. And all of this is the gift of work, the gift I've done from the work of overcoming my addiction, and it's a really, really blessed life.

Speaker 1: 16:12

In the past few years I've also started another 12-step program. It is a companion program to some of the larger 12-step programs and it's really focused more on relationships. And yeah, this is just a little tricky because in 12-step programs we're not really supposed to talk about what 12-step programs we're in, because then you will identify the 12-step program with me and if I mess up, you think it's a problem with the 12-step program. It's a whole complicated thing. We have what's called a tradition around anonymity in media. So let's just say that I've continued my 12-step journey. I'm now in two 12-step programs that are different, but both complementary, and one is for people who have a problem with addiction and the other is for people who love people who have a problem with addiction, and both of them have enhanced my life quite a bit. I'd be happy I have no problem. If people really want to know more about the specifics of my experience in 12-step recovery, I am more than happy to discuss that one-on-one or if you send me emails. But in terms of this as a podcast, I really just want to focus on the larger story and here's the larger story podcast. I really just want to focus on the larger story and here's the larger story.

Speaker 1: 17:25

I started playing with drugs. I discovered I was an addict. Now, drugs didn't make me an addict From my perspective. I was an addict all along. I was just waiting for the right drug to activate it. So I don't want to rail against drugs. I don't have any problem with anyone who does drugs Alecans drugs. I don't have any problem with anyone who does drugs. I can't do them. It is like an allergy. Right, you can eat peanuts Great, eat all the peanuts you want, but if I eat peanuts I'm going to die. It's a little bit like that. So I was in leather. I started playing with drugs. I discovered I was an addict. I had to get help. I had to get help. I was able to get help. I was able to put down the drugs and I was able to disentangle them from my leather life and return a better, more complete, more whole leather person. That's where I'm going to leave the story for now.

Speaker 1: 18:24

I think in the next segment I'll be able to reveal a little bit more as we talk about some of the resources available and honestly, I really wish I could be more specific and go into more details, because I think there's a lot for me to share there, but I'm really trying to be mindful of you, the listener, and what your experience might be and what your solution might be to addiction, which could be very different from mine. I'm trying to remain focused on the fact that this is a podcast about kink and not about addiction, and I'm trying to be respectful of the traditions of the programs I follow for my recovery Complicated stuff programs I follow for my recovery Complicated stuff. So if you'd like to know more, reach out to me, and I will also include some links to resources for sober or recovering leather kinky people in the show notes and I hope that will do.

Speaker 1: 19:21

And that's it for this segment, but we're going to continue on and think some more about resources available to everyone. Thank you for your attention. Part of the challenge of this segment is that I'm speaking to two audiences of you out there. The first audience consists of people who wonder if they have a problem, and the second is people who love someone who they think may have a problem. Those are two very different populations, so let me start with my understanding of addiction.

Speaker 2: 20:01

And I want to make clear that we are talking about addiction very broadly.

Speaker 1: 20:05

That includes drugs, alcohol, spending, sex, love relationships, gambling, online porn, and the list goes on and on. In my experience and I'm not speaking as any sort of health professional, I'm speaking of me the defining characteristic I have found in my experience of addiction is that it is obsessive and compulsive, which means when I wasn't using meth, I was thinking about using meth, and then, when I was near it, I would use it, whether or not I wanted to. That was the compulsion, and I find that crops up in other areas of my life. I have a fairly ongoing challenging relationship with sweets late at night, and there have been, in the course of, say, the last decade, many nights where I have found myself driving to get cookies, even though I hated it and didn't want to cookies, even though I hated it and didn't want to, but I could not stop. That's the compulsion. I have found myself thinking about desserts starting early in the evening. That's the obsession. So my first piece of advice to you is if there's an issue in your life that you feel you both obsess and compulse around, that's something to pay attention to.

Speaker 1: 21:25

The challenge with a disease like addiction and as far as I'm concerned. It is a disease. I feel it's a brain disorder. I feel there's something wrong with the wiring of my neurons. I don't think it's a moral failing. I don't think it's anything else but a disease like other kinds of diseases, other mental health issues, like depression. I also think depression isn't just you're feeling down. It means your neurochemicals are out of whack. So in my experience, addiction is a disease. But what's challenging is one of the symptoms from my experience of the disease of addiction is you tell yourself you're not an addict. And that's complicated because they're like how do you know? Critically, no one can tell you that you're an addict. You have to decide that for yourself. Now, if you're here and listening because you love someone who you think has a problem, that's going to be a challenge for you, because they need to understand they have a problem. You may see the problem, you may see it very clearly, you may love them and want to solve that problem for them, but you cannot. The only way any of us can begin to defeat the disease of addiction is by understanding for ourselves that we have the disease of addiction, and that comes in lots of ways. You know.

Speaker 1: 22:50

Often there's a moment where well, you know, my experience is, I knew it for a long time. There was actually a time where I was like, oh, I'm an addict and that means I should use, because that's what addicts do, right. So I was using the disease to justify and fuel more using. I knew it for a while, but there came a moment, this moment of light, clarity, this moment of honesty, when I really understood I had a problem. And that's critical also because for a long time I thought crystal meth was the problem. I thought I had gotten addicted to crystal meth and what I realized is that I was the problem I had the issue.

Speaker 1: 23:34

That shift from addicted to crystal meth to being an addict was big for me and significant, because before that time, if you had asked me, it caused a whole reorganization of my sense of self. Before that time, if you'd asked me who I am, I'd be like well, I'm a leather man. That was pretty core to my identity and my sense of self. And then, after that moment, core to my identity and sense of self is I'm an addict. Because for me, I have to keep an eye on it. I have to put it central so I can keep an eye on it, because if I forget it, I've got this weird mental quirky disease that does things like forget I have a problem. Tell me I don't have a problem. Tell me it's okay. If I do it one more time, tell me it's going to be different this time, all that. So if you're wondering, you have a problem.

Speaker 1: 24:23

The other thing you might look for is the amount of unmanageability that this issue causes in your life. Going out and eating cookies at 10 o'clock at night causes some unmanageability in my life, in that I then have to exercise more to offset the increase in calories I'm taking. I have to work harder at the gym to make up for what I've done. That's a little bit of unmanageability. With crystal meth, it was a much higher degree of unmanageability as you might imagine. So you might want to look and see how manageable is your life. How much chaos is there? How much out-of-control drama is there related to some of your behaviors? Gambling, sex, porn, online activities, even kink itself, I think, could probably be an addictive behavior, and isn't that kind of a scary thing to think about? So if you're wondering if you have an addiction, kind of a scary thing to think about. So if you're wondering if you have an addiction.

Speaker 1: 25:24

I would ask you to pay attention to whether or not you can stop at will, because for me I couldn't. That was the compulsion, whether or not you think about it when you're not doing it. For me that was the obsession, whether or not the behavior causes problems in your life Like, what are the problems and how are they related to the behavior? And then also, do you keep telling yourself you don't have a problem? Because you know what my sense is? Normal people don't spend the mental energy to tell themselves they don't have a problem because they don't have a problem. It's only when you have a problem you start trying to convince yourself that you don't have a problem. Only when you have a problem you start trying to convince yourself that you don't have a problem. So those are my hints and tips to you.

Speaker 1: 26:08

If you're considering whether or not you might have an issue, and if you love someone who you think has an issue, there's a whole program for you and I hope you find it because it offers a lot of comfort and it is a companion program to Alcoholics Anonymous. It's called Al-Anon, I think I can say that, and so respect their traditions and it's worth checking out. So the first step to dealing with addiction is definitely to figure out whether or not you have addiction, and that's a step only you can take. In terms of its relationship to kink, here are some things to keep in mind. First of all, I do think for a while I mean for a while, for a couple of decades now I have felt that meth was an epidemic in the leather community and for me it was the second deadly pandemic raging against us After HIV that wiped out a large chunk of a generation. Now there's the problem of meth, but also opiate addiction and the rise of fentanyl. So certainly locally here in Fort Lauderdale there's a lot, lot, lot of drug use. But I do think broadly it is infiltrated in many areas of the leather community and that's complicated if we think about why, and I don't want to explore that too much.

Speaker 1: 27:32

But what I do want to say is that at its core, at its core, the leather community is vehemently anti-intoxication. At its core, the leather community is vehemently anti-intoxication. You know, someone once explained to me the simplest form of addiction and recovery. They said isolation is the disease and connection is the cure. And I know that was true For me. I ended up alone when using all the time. Even if I started with someone, I ended up alone. I ended up isolated. Isolation was a manifestation of my disease. There was a time when I was really kind of manifesting my addiction in sexual behaviors and I would spend hours alone. I would always end up disconnected. That was the manifestation of my disease and the way I've learned to recover is through connection. The reason I'm sharing that is because I also have a friend on Facebook who constantly posts photos of guys in leather and he'll say leather is about connection. So the core of the leather community is about connecting.

Speaker 1: 28:51

Kink when we do it is about connection. It is about pleasure, but it's about intimacy. It is about being with someone. I do not do kink to you. I don't flog you, right? I mean I do flog you, but I don't do things to you. We do things together. For me, connection is the center of what we do in kink, and addiction destroys connection. Addiction is about isolation, so that both means that we are seeing this pandemic of addiction ravaging the leather and king communities, but at its core, because we are a community that is so deeply invested in connection. That means if you find the core of the community, you will find that it is anti-intoxication and there are good reasons for that, beyond the kind of emphasis on intimacy, if you think about the sort of code we use. We use safe, sane, consensual. We use risk-aware kink. That's even probably more popular now.

Speaker 1: 29:55

But, let's go back to the classic safe, sane, consensual. If one or both parties are under the influence of drugs or alcohol, then your judgment is impaired, consent is impaired, safety is impaired, sanity is impaired. Right, it is hard to be safe, sane and consensual and practice kink when one or both parties are impaired, as kink when one or both parties are impaired. So that's another reason why being leather and being deeply addicted are not necessarily compatible. Now I don't want to suggest that you must only ever play sober. I think there are certainly ways to do harm reduction and to incorporate drugs into scenes. I can't do it because I essentially have an allergy of body and mind and I will end up dead. Let's not get into that, but that's what will happen. But I think other people can use substances responsibly and a lot of that is that notion of responsibly. I have a friend who does drugs but he does a prescribed dose. He keeps track of when he does it. He knows how many hours to wait before he does another dose. He doesn't accept drugs from strangers. He tests his drugs for fentanyl. He is practicing harm reduction. If we reach deep in history, a lot of these mind-altering substances had ecstatic religious possibilities in them. I'm not talking about meth, but I'm talking about, in general, mind-altering. If we look at certain spiritual traditions, mind-altering was part of the ecstatic practice and that also sometimes included pain practices. So I think there are ways to incorporate substances with intent and with responsibility into kink. So I don't want to say like, oh, if you use substances well, then you're a bad leather person. But I would hope that if you use them well, then you're a bad leather person. But I would hope that if you use them, you're having a thorough discussion with your partner and that you're using them responsibly. That's the key responsibly. For me, I could not use them responsibly. Perhaps that's true for you as well, and if so, then you might want to think about not just harm reduction strategies but actual recovery strategies. I've shared that.

Speaker 1: 32:26

For me, a 12-step program worked. I know a lot of people as queers. We have been deeply, deeply wounded and damaged by organized religion. Period Period Not universally true, but broadly true that queers have been deeply wounded by organized religion, and so when you hear about a program that has the word God in it, we are not really running towards that. It's not like our first choice right. 12 Step was not my first choice. Therapy was my first choice. Therapy was the first thing I tried. That didn't. I tried everything I knew to try before I got to 12-step.

Speaker 1: 33:09

So if you're not ready for 12-step or if you don't think it's going to work for you, there are other options. I think the key is my experience is addiction is not something you can overcome by yourself. It was not something I can overcome by yourself. It was not something I could overcome by myself. I had to ask for help and the way that manifested for me is in a 12-step program, but it may manifest different ways for you, but I know of only three people in the whole of my life and existence who've been able to walk away from meth specifically just out of willpower, and I don't know how they did that, but I know three people who did. Everyone else I know had some sort of help.

Speaker 1: 33:50

That doesn't mean 12-step program. In particular, you might try something like CBT no, no, no, not the kind of CBT we like, I mean cognitive behavioral therapy and that can help you identify and change harmful patterns of thinking and behavior that are related to your addictive behavior. There's also a whole other program called Smart Recovery, and this is really based. I think it's actually based in CBT, but it's about self-empowerment, self-reliance, behavioral change through practical techniques, and that is available both in person and online. Think it's actually based in CBT, but it's about self-empowerment, self-reliance, behavioral change through practical techniques, and that is available both in person and online. And if you're really resistant to these notions of spirituality that come with 12-step programs, it might be a good option for you to explore. In addition to the harm reduction approaches we've already talked about, you might also think about mindfulness and meditation-based programs.

Speaker 1: 34:46

If you think about something like refuge recovery, it's 12-steppy broadly, but it's really Buddhist and it's a Buddhist-inspired path to recovery that focuses on mindfulness, self-compassion and emotional regulation. So if Buddhism resonates for you, there's both refuge, recovery and recovery dharma, which also uses Buddhist principles. If you're a little satanic, there is a group called the Sober Faction which is part of the Church of Satan. I think it's Church of Satan, right? C-o-s Church of Satan. That is a sort of satanic approach to recovery and satanic in the sort of non-theistic sense, or is it theistic? It's a group that really is about empowering yourself, right. So that might be worth exploring.

Speaker 1: 35:39

There are different therapy options. You might want to, in particular, look for a kink-aware professional, and there are online recovery communities, including Reddit's Stop Drinking community and apps like Tempest that offer digital courses and community support. There's a lot of peer support in the community for people who are trying to avoid addictive behaviors and I'll provide some of those resources in the show notes. But also consider things like fitness and wellness programs. Some people find recovery through exercise and physical health and things like yoga, strength training, martial arts, because they can help manage cravings and stress and they can provide an alternative community outside of your usual party scene. And then if you also integrate that wellness into your leather and kink lifestyle, then you're creating opportunities to really come back into control and redefine power and control and discipline in healthier and more mindful ways.

Speaker 1: 36:46

Some people, I think, have also explored holistic and alternative therapies to deal with addiction. That includes acupuncture, equine therapy, art therapy that really offer healing through less traditional means and that might appeal to you if you're not really into talk therapy. Like many of the other aspects of these programs, they can really address emotional, spiritual, physical aspects of your addiction that help you move towards recovery. There's also medication-assisted treatment. This is especially important, I think, if your issue is opiates. So if you're thinking about something like Suboxone or methadone that can be used in conjunction with counseling or therapy to help manage withdrawal and cravings, and I think what you'll find is that any kink event probably has some sort of recovery space.

Speaker 1: 37:41

There are actual 12-step meetings at all the major events, but what's nice is they're kind of super generic 12-step meetings. I've gone to these and you can just show up and not really be a 12-step person but be in a room of people who are kinky and don't use substances and understand the powerlessness of being forced to do something against your will because your mind is acting against your wishes. So there are a number of resources. Let's also keep in mind there's a whole atheist version of 12-step program. So if you're averse to 12-step if you tried it, it didn't work for you if you just can't stand the notion of spirit or God, great, there's still a lot of options available to you if you ask for help. And I think the other thing is any day I don't use is a victory right. So if you can just make it through today without whatever your behavior is, without looking at porn, without binge eating, without spending and getting the high, without shoplifting, whatever that is that is your compulsive, addictive behavior.

Speaker 1: 38:56

If you can spend one day not doing it, that's a victory. But that also means that if you try a program, 12-step cognitive behavioral therapy, smart recovery, whatever it is if you try it it doesn't work, keep trying it or try another one, or try two at the same time. That what I've been taught and what I really believe is that addiction is a progressive and fatal disease, and so I know that for me this is my personal truth that if I start using again, I will keep using more and more and eventually I will die. It is a fatal disease and I don't think you have to look very far around us to realize that notion of fatality. I know more than one. That's silly. I know a lot, not quite that. I know a number of leather kinky people who have died from addiction, and that's a loss for the community. That's the epidemic that rages.

Speaker 1: 40:01

It's also very complicated Once you do get recovered, once you do move out of the addictive actions. It's really complicated to recover your leather and kinky self. You know I shared earlier that I was really lucky that I had a leather life before my addiction really took off and so therefore I had a place to go back to. I understood what kink was without drugs or alcohol, but for many people and this is what I've learned from my experience and hearing people's stories their entry into leather was with drugs or alcohol or whatever substances, because there was so much shame, there was so much guilt, there was so much fear around wanting to drink piss or wanting to get beaten or wanting to get fucked by 30 guys that the drugs gave them a way to do it. Their challenge, once they walk away, once they're freed from the addictive behavior, is disentangling kink from that behavior, because a lot of times they become so deeply linked in the brain that it can take a long time to pry those two things apart and understand the kink behavior without the substances.

Speaker 1: 41:29

I have a number of friends who've done this journey with fisting, where they first got fisted with drugs which can obviously provide a lot of help, a lot of support if you're dealing with a fist in your ass and then they had a life where their fisting was always on some sort of substance and then, once they left the addictive behavior and the substances behind it was like, okay, how do I go back to fisting? But they did. Here's the news I have for you that if your entry into leather was all jumbled up, or if your leather kink life now is all jumbled up with some sort of addictive behavior, it is possible to disentangle them. It is possible to return to the things that gave you pleasure without addictive behaviors. That's a longer journey for some than others and it may require a lot of time, a lot of work, a lot of therapy and a lot of support. But it is possible. I know it from my journey and I have seen it in several, several, several, several, several of my peers and friends who were able to eventually experience leather and kink without their addictive behaviors. So I want you to know it's possible. So the messages I would like you to take away from this segment First of all, if you love someone and you think they have a problem, look into Al-Anon.

Speaker 1: 43:05

I would love to sugarcoat it and just say there's a companion program, blah, blah, blah. But I just need to be clear. Look into Al-Anon, it represents its own. Maybe I should do a whole separate program sometime on that, but it has its own challenges. Maybe I should do a whole separate program sometime on that, but it has its own challenges. But it is an incredible, incredible wealth of wisdom, experience and hope. If you love someone who you think has a problem, if you think you may have a problem, hopefully I've offered some tips from my experience of how I figured out I had a problem and hopefully, if you do have a problem, you come to understand that you do have a problem. I hope that you take away from this segment that at its core, because leather is about connection.

Speaker 1: 43:52

Leather is anti-intoxication. That saying that is not a way of vilifying people or excluding people who use substances in their play, but asking them to do it as safely, sanely and consensually as possible, to talk about risk and to practice good harm reduction If you do discover you have a problem. 12-step was my solution. It is not the only solution. There are a range of therapy solutions and group-based solutions, but from my experience, what's critical is getting some help and there are a lot of different kinds of help out there and whether drugs came into your leather life that you had before the addictive behavior, or whether those addictive substances eased your entry and erased your shame around your kinked desires, there will come a day when you're able to disentangle, separate the two of them and come back to leather as the person you want to be, as the person that you are already somewhere deep inside. I know that this, you know I. Often I also feel like this isn't the super best segment, because I'm both trying to address broad issues like addiction, but in a leather context, and there's probably a lot more I can say, but I am walking complicated lines of traditions and personal boundaries and sharing experience and all that.

Speaker 1: 45:26

I hope that you've gotten something useful out of this segment and certainly, if you need some help, feel free to reach out to me. Thank you, welcome to Ask Edge, the segment where I answer questions from all of you, now with fan mail. So my podcast is hosted through a company called Buzzsprout and they have a new feature called fan mail. You will find it in the show notes of every episode. At the top it says send a text and literally you're able to text me a little note. It shows up on my Buzzsprout page and so I will be sharing a couple of fan mails I've received, as well as Ask Edge, the segment where I answer questions from all of you. Please feel free to submit your questions. Either leave me a voicemail at speakpipecom slash leatheredge L-T-H-R-E-D-G-E that is, speakpipecom slash leatheredge or send me an email at ask at fullcowshow, and both of those links are also available in the show notes. In the show notes.

Speaker 1: 46:42

So the first piece of fan mail I received is from Glasgow. It's from James in Glasgow and he says Hi there and hello from Glasgow. I'm so pleased you had a great visit to Scotland. Your podcast perfectly captures so many of the typical things about our country, especially the iron brew and the empire biscuits. I love that you're planning further trips to Europe. If you ever travel to Berlin, give me a shout. I'm a regular visitor there so I can offer some tips about places to visit eating, drinking and the leather scene. Thanks again for your wonderful show, james in Glasgow, berlin.

Speaker 1: 47:16

Yes, you know, you would think I've been. People tend to think that I've been to Berlin any number of times, but the truth is I've never been and it's on my list. It is on my list. I don't know when I'm going to get there. I will say I'm not really interested in going to Folsom and I'm not really interested in going to Easter. In part that's because sometimes the weather particularly with Folsom, I've heard the weather can be a little not conducive to leather. More than anything it's because, well, it's two reasons I want to be the new meat in town and I don't want to have to compete with thousands of leathermen from all over the world. Not the best reason, but it's true and I'm going to say it. The second thing is I want to be able to see the city of Berlin and not feel like I'm missing out on some event. So my plan is to head to Berlin at some point and make sure I hit a black weekend, which I understand is a great weekend, but it's a little less overwhelming than some of the larger events. I will be sure to keep people posted should I make it to Berlin for a Black Weekend.

Speaker 1: 48:25

My second fan mail comes from Australia. Hello to you, edge. I wanted to say thank you for doing this podcast. As someone who is completely at odds and confused and denial of my leather journey, your words are of a great support and appreciate you, ash, australia, thank you. Thank you, ash. You know I also just recently got a nice message on Instagram I hope you know who I'm talking about but thank you again. These little messages that tell me this podcast means something. This resonated for you. The podcast, this episode, meant something to you. You learned something here. This helped you there.

Speaker 1: 49:07

These are pretty critical to me because I will admit I am dragging man. I am dragging with the podcast and not to get too deeply into it, but I've been single for a while now and I find that that's dragging my overall energy levels down and the podcast has been feeling like a little bit of a chore. Fortunately, I'm nearing the end of this season and I get my hiatus, which hopefully I will use to recharge, and I have started planning season four. I'm not going to commit to it, but I have started planning. I have a good sense. I'll tell you. I'll wait until the season finale to tell you what I'm planning for season four. I think it's going to be good and I can't promise you, I'm going to do it, but the good news is I'm thinking about a season four.

Speaker 1: 49:56

The only thing, the only reason I keep doing this. This really became a lot of work at some point, but I get these messages from people and I'm just like blown away that I am able to touch people's lives in any way whatsoever. Podcast has become important to people and therefore I keep doing it because for all of you, like, I'm not doing this for me. I was never really doing this for me.

Speaker 1: 50:28

I started the podcast really to fill time after a breakup and to have something to talk about when I was dating, like, oh yeah, I'm starting a podcast. Really, tell me about your podcast. And it's become something that I do for all of you because it's important. And I only know it's important because you send me these little messages that tell me it's important. So, ash, thank you. You've moved this entire podcast closer to a season four simply by taking the time to send me a text to fan mail. I love that. It's texting, that's pretty cool. So that's all the fan mail this time. Perhaps we will have some more in the future. And we have two questions. The first is from Matty.

Speaker 2: 51:06

Hello, edge Matty here, 29. He him Live in the UK. Leather lad Originally from Ireland. Lad originally from Ireland, long time fan of the podcast. It's been an integral part of my journey into leather and kink. I guess my question for you would be what was your first session or scene in leather or kink or BDSM and, if you've already answered that one on the podcast or on another question, what's been your favourite scene that you've ever done in Leather and Kink? I think my first experience of Leather and Kink was in a gay campsite and I cruised this guy in leather. He kind of walked into the darkroom and I immediately noticed that he was wearing leather boots, leather shorts, a leather vest and I thought, damn, I want to play with that guy. So I took him back to his trailer and that's what we did and from there it's been a bit of a journey. But yeah, I hope you're well. That's my question. Thank you for all your hard work on the podcast. We all really appreciate it.

Speaker 1: 52:25

Take care lots of love oh, maddie, you know how I love me some irish accent, thank you, thank you. Thank you so much for submitting your question. I want to start a whole podcast that's simply irish people ask edge, and I will only accept questions from people from Ireland and I will just listen to their voices and giggle like a schoolgirl. Anyway, to get back to your question, I won't share what my favorite is because I feel like I have lots of different favorite scenes and I don't want to pick one. I've had several really special scenes in my life, but I will talk about my first one, which is way back in the Origins episode. I doubt anyone even remembers it.

Speaker 1: 53:08

I was in New Orleans. I had a date with this guy, very vanilla. We went out in the French Quarter. He took me to a bunch of bars. He was buying me a bunch of drinks. I think he was trying to get me drunk. It worked. And then one of the bars we went to or walked by was the of bars he was buying me a bunch of drinks, I think he was trying to get me drunk.

Speaker 1: 53:20

It worked. And then one of the bars we went to or walked by was the leather bar. It was called Jewel's, and I asked him to leave me there, which I was drunk, but obviously not that drunk, because I knew that's where I wanted to be. I knew that's where I wanted to be and within minutes of being there I met Wally, who was in chaps and probably shirtless because he had a really nice chest. And then I went home with Mark and Wally while drunk and according to Wally and I believe his story is true again I was drunk, not entirely aware of things he said he put a pair of chaps on me and I came just like that, entirely. Wear things, he said. He put a pair of chaps on me and I came just like that. So that was probably my first leather scene.

Speaker 1: 54:06

I would also reference my first gay experience when I was 17. I was walking along the levee which is the big barrier along the Mississippi River, and there's an area between the levee and the river called the Batcher. It's really like a little flood zone for the river to flood, not flood the city, and there are all these trails in the Batcher and trees. It's really quite pretty and I met this very sexy guy walking his dogs and we ended up making out and he took me back to his place. This was my first gay experience ever.

Speaker 1: 54:34

I'm not going into super detail because everyone's not the place for it, but I insisted, I absolutely insisted he tie me up before we go any further. And he went and borrowed a pair of handcuffs from a friend down the street and put them on me and then put his cock in my mouth and I thought that was really weird and then I realized that's what a blow job is. So there you go. Those are my two firsts my first gay sex, leather, my first gay sex, gay sex and kink, and then my first leather. Thank you for the question, maddie, and now our second question is from Howie.

Speaker 3: 55:06

Hi Edge, this is Howie from San Jose, california. I have. After listening to your aging podcast, I had two things that I wanted to share with you and give you feedback on. First thing was just from a health perspective. I discovered when I was 55 that I was low testosterone, which explains a lot of the energy issues that I had growing up. So my recommendation for your audience is to get with your doctor regularly and especially have your testosterone levels checked. The second thing really is a question is that I find, as part of aging, being open to learning new questions, new things about life, about people and their experiences, and being willing to consider if my opinions or thoughts need to change as a result I find that that's a really healthy attitude to have. Sometimes, based on new information, I find the answer is no, it doesn't change, and on other cases, I find that, yeah, my thoughts and opinions do change, and I wanted to ask you if you would be willing to share a similar situation that you may have already talked about or that you haven't talked about Howie.

Speaker 1: 56:36

Thank you, those are both great points. I am also on hormone replacement therapy because of low testosterone and if you have health insurance and if you have access to a doctor, I do recommend that you get your testosterone checked fairly regularly and, if it's low, advocate for having some replacement replacement. It's also worth noting that there's a huge disparity between healthcare when it comes to men and when it comes to women, reflecting patriarchy, misogyny, all of that. That women will have a much harder time with hormone replacement therapy than men, because testosterone is actually pretty easy to get prescribed, at least where I live, which has a very high gay male, older gay male population. I'm not going to say older, I'm going to say men of a certain age, mochas. And as for your question, I want to reframe it and I think what you're really talking about is being curious.

Speaker 1: 57:29

Or, if you're not, I'm going to hijack your comment and talk about being curious, because I was just having this conversation with a dear, dear friend in San Francisco today and he was talking about curiosity and I love this notion of remaining curious. Being curious is a way for me to reframe different things, like when I do go on dates. It's about being curious about the person and seeing to what extent they're curious about me. And I think curiosity involves an openness, because it's like I want to learn about you, I want to learn about your experience, and then after that, that open-mindedness is critical. I think you've pointed that out, that it's critical to then determining am I going to change my opinion on something, on someone, on some situation, on some fetish, or am I going to stay locked in and I try to practice curiosity. I do think it's a way of keeping the mind young and the spirit young, and I think that helps. I remain very curious about how people work and about their kinks, and I think as part of that, for me, curiosity comes without judgment. I just want to know I'm not interested in judging your kink, but I'm very curious about it because I find kink in general fascinating, including the kinks I don't have, and so I love that you're really asking that question of how do we remain in a flexible mindset where we can keep learning different skills but also differences in people and sometimes, and that willingness to being able to change our mind is pretty critical as well.

Speaker 1: 59:05

So thank you for that question and thank you for sharing the experience and the information, especially about testosterone and those levels for men, for AMABs. Right, if you're assigned male at birth, you should probably be getting well. No, that's not true. It's complicated. But if you are a cis man or if you're a man who has testosterone, get your levels checked. That's what I'm going to say. I'm sorry if I didn't handle that elegantly, please forgive me. That's it for this episode and I'm so grateful that all of you have joined me. Next month will be the season finale, the end of season three with a preview of season four, if season four should happen, if I find the energy, the spirit and the drive to keep going. And that comes from all of you and from things like this segment where you talk to me and I answer your questions. So think about submitting a fan mail, because those are really cool, or submitting a question so that you can contribute to all. That is full cow.

Speaker 1: 1:00:13

So until next time have a super, duper, duper, blessed journey. And that's it for this episode. Thank you so much for joining me. Please consider subscribing or you can send feedback to edge at full cow dot show, as always. May your leather journey be blessed.