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Deeper

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The internet loves a clean arc: rock bottom, redemption, triumphant ending. Ryan “Hunger FF” James is not interested in that. We sit down to talk about Deeper, his anti-memoir that flips the usual memoir structure and tells the story from inside the mess, where addiction, desire, ambition, and identity collide in real time. If you’ve ever wondered what content creation does to a person over years of being watched, rated, and rewarded, this conversation pulls the curtain back. 

Ryan shares how Deeper began as therapeutic writing with Pineapple Support and grew into a book built from sharp vignettes, brutal honesty, and dark humor. We get into harm reduction recovery and why the “middle” matters for people who don’t fit the black-and-white story of total sobriety versus total collapse. We also talk about the algorithm as an invisible monster that demands constant feeding, turning a persona into a job, a coping strategy, and sometimes a cage. 

There’s physical reality here too: Ryan describes a freak accident that led to emergency surgery and living with a stoma, then what it took mentally to keep going when his biggest fear became real. We also pivot back to kink with practical fisting advice for beginners and younger “COVID fisting” newcomers: slow down, find experienced partners, use more lube than you think, and take aftercare seriously. After the interview, Ask Edge tackles leather mentorship boundaries and practical contest prep for aspiring titleholders. 

If Deeper, harm reduction, BDSM podcast conversations, sex worker mental health, and creator burnout are on your radar, hit play. Subscribe, share with a friend who needs it, and leave a review with the part that challenged you most.

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Ask Edge! Go to https://www.speakpipe.com/LTHREDGE to leave ask a question or leave feedback. Find Edge's other content on Instagram and Twitter. Also visit his archive of educational videos, Tchick-Tchick.

Mature Warning And Welcome

SPEAKER_01

Let's talk about deeper. This podcast contains material intended for a mature audience. Before proceeding, please check your local laws and confirm that you are an adult. Welcome to Folcal, a podcast about Leather Kink and BDSM. My name is Edge, my pronouns are a hen, and I'm your host. In this episode, we are having back on Folcal Hunger FF, who was sort of our star for the fisting episode. He has recently completed a book about his life and all of its complications and all of its high points and very low points. And that book is called Deeper. So I had him back here on the show for us to talk about that book. It's an interesting conversation. I hope you'll enjoy it. I hope you'll think about checking out the work. And beyond that, I've got a couple of asked questions. So I think it's a pretty good show overall, and I'm really looking forward to sharing it all with you. So let's get started. And I am absolutely thrilled to welcome back to Full Cal, Ryan, also known as Hunger FF, who you might recall was the star of our fisting episode. Ryan, welcome back to Full Cal.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you for having me. Was I the star of the fisting episode? You certainly were.

SPEAKER_01

You were the star. It is welcome, welcome back, because this is the second time we're doing this interview. I had horrible technical difficulties the first time. So, Ryan, I appreciate you showing up once again.

SPEAKER_02

I appreciate you being tolerant of my inability to be on time.

SPEAKER_01

It's just a madcap adventure for us both. So um we're here to talk about your anti-memoir called Deeper.

What An Anti-Memoir Means

SPEAKER_02

Yes. I'm very excited and thank you for having me on to talk about it.

SPEAKER_01

So let's start with this notion of anti-memoir. What what is that? Tell us about that.

SPEAKER_02

So anti-memoir is actually um I was working with a publisher when I first started. Um well, not after when I when I not when I first started, but after I'd written the book and I was kind of in the development, you know, finalization phase. Um I started working with a publisher that came up with this idea that basically I had taken the the idea of what a memoir should be, which is recollecting events and like kind of like going, you know, telling your story and flipped the idea of storytelling on its on its head, basically. It told the um the way that the book is told, it's it's not like a traditional memoir where there's like a redemptive arc where like you have like um like a rise and a fall, and then like a um a look back period, it's kind of told in the thick of the story, of the thick of when things are kind of kind of kind of going on. Um and it it pulls apart the idea of what storytelling is is like in the digital age when you are kind of curating your own content for the internet. Yeah. And so if I'm telling, if I'm sharing my story as content, what does that look like as as a as as as both a story and as content? What does that look like? So it's kind of um taking the idea of what a traditional memoir is and flipping it on its on its head.

Therapy Origins And Writing Process

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I love that. So what made you wake up one day and decide to write a book? Because that is a pretty significant project. A lot of people say, oh, I'm gonna write a book and they never get around to it. What is it that really drove you to complete this project?

Vulnerability And Healing Through Truth

SPEAKER_02

Um so these actually the book started as therapy um with a therapist that I was working with at Pineapple Support, um, which if people don't know what that is, it's an LGBT-friendly, um sex worker-friendly, uh low-cost therapy solution for sex workers or people in the sex industry. So I had waited a long time to get in touch with them and finally got it, finally got um signed up with a therapist. And she suggested that I start kind of like writing out some of like my past traumas, like um writing about them and kind of pulling them apart. Um, and uh because I've always been a writer, but I've never uh and it's kind of channeled itself in weird ways throughout the years, like whether that's like writing copy for porn or that's writing like my my blog was really popular when I was first starting in porn when I was 18. I had a really popular blog. Um and so this sort of just kind of transformed into this. Um, and then as time went on, once I finished my sessions with pineapple support, I realized I'm like, okay, I have like these um essays basically, where there actually sort of feels like there's like a through line between some of them that it feels like they could be connected in a way that would tell like a story that somebody else could listen to and get something out of. And so that's um when I decided to kind of uh weave like a line through all the narrative or all of the um all the chapters that I wrote and and created the the book structure out of that. So the one thing that my publisher that I was working with initially told me was that don't write a book and the book will just happen on its own. So like it's like if you were sitting down to write a book, it's not gonna happen. But if you if you just sit down to write, then a book will show up. And that's kind of exactly what happened with me.

SPEAKER_01

So I think knowing now that it came out of a therapeutic context makes so much sense because there's a real rawness to deeper. Do you want to talk about what that was like to even put that in the world to be so kind of vulnerable to the world?

SPEAKER_02

There it's I've always kind of lived my life like an open book. Um, like um, but there's also been this part of me that's kind of been guarded and kept some of like the darker stuff like a little bit more secret and more private. And so um, but I feel like there's this weird misconception about me in the fisting community, and like I don't know if it's in the in the leather fetish community in general, but like that I'm this like kind of standoffish, rude, arrogant person, and I'm never and it's always kind of I think that's rooted in my shyness in real life. Like when in when I'm at events or anything like that, like I get in my head and I don't really come, you know, don't put myself out there like I probably could. Um, and so part of me decided that I wanted to be so vulnerable and open so I could kind of dispel some of like the misperceptions that pencil people have about me, and also because it was super cathartic, it was super like getting this stuff out, especially like some of like the more harder addiction chapters or the family trauma, childhood trauma chapters. Um, I had a friend of mine that challenged me when I first started writing, he said to me, Um, if you don't write about like the worst thing that's happened to you, then you're you're gonna censor yourself. And he's gonna you're gonna not tell the truth about you know the the the whole truth if you if you if there's still something that you're in your in your closet that you're hiding. So I wrote about the thing that is like the most shameful thing that's I that that's part of my story. And so like once that got out of me, I felt like I could tell I could say anything at that point.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Do you feel like this since this started as a therapeutic process, do you feel like you've really done some healing in writing the book as a whole? Do you feel lighter because of it? Or what is that process like for you in relation to the therapeutic value?

SPEAKER_02

Um, I feel like a radically different person after getting it from all this out. Like it's it's really um and going back and rereading it is like re-therapying myself. Like is I've I've reading it and rereading it and editing it and putting it through the ringer and deconstructing it and reconstructing it over and over and over again. I feel like I've gotten to know myself better than I could have in really any other context. Like uh, because I wrote about some of like the I wrote about all of the worst stuff that's ever happened to me and all the best stuff that's ever happened to me. So it's like there's a lot of really cool stuff that's uh that's gone on with me um in my lifetime, and there's a lot of really gnarly stuff that's happened, and so I wrote about both. And so I tried to and I tried to balance some of like the um the worst moments with like the darkest humor I possibly could. Like um, there's um there's a story about um an incident where I was traveling across Europe and um the bus that I was on, my friend suggested that I take the scenic route across the south of France up to Milan. And so I take this this this this bus route, which turns out to be a human trafficking route. And so human trafficking and drug trafficking. And so I the bus I was on got raided, and we were pulled out of the bus and lined up like you know, I don't even know, like we're just picking for these officers, yeah. And um, it was terrifying, but in retrospect, it was kind of insurdly funny too. It's like in a weird way. So I wrote about it with through a lens of kind of comedy, which is the only way I could probably process it.

SPEAKER_01

So yeah. And although this was a therapeutic process for you, you're certainly didn't do this only for you. So can you talk about sort of who you would most want to read this book and what you would most hope they get from it?

SPEAKER_02

So the lens that I decided to kind of write from is the lens that saved my life more times than not, um, which is a lens of harm reduction uh when it comes to addiction and and um substance abuse in general, um, substance use and substance abuse. Uh the 12-step model of recovery, I respect it. I I I appreciate it. It saved my life in the past, but it's from where I'm at today, like I feel like harm reduction is a more like appropriate or um uh it's it's more likely to save me than than the one, you know, than the black and white of the of the of the program. Um and so what I realized as I was writing this was that there was not really a lot of literature or a lot of support or stories being told from that perspective. And so I feel like that that community of people that appre yeah that need harm reduction don't really have any representation. And so um I think that it's really important. I include harm reduction resources at the end of the book, um, uh including like, you know, uh pineapple support is one of the one of the resources I include, and then um syringe exchange programs, dance safe to test your drugs and like all kinds of things like that. So um basically ways to to mitigate the amount of harm that a person's doing to themselves is the idea behind harm reduction for people who don't know what it is. Um and so uh the people that are kind of in the middle is who I address the book to is really at the end by by the end when I'm doing the acknowledgments, I said, you know, this book is for basically the people that are somewhere in the middle. And so you're not quite, you know, you're not past saving, you're not past um, you know, help, you're not not not deserving of love, time, support. And so that's kind of what um the person the people that I hope hear the book are the people that are still sick and suffering, that are, you know, struggling and looking to find a voice somewhere in the noise.

SPEAKER_01

So yeah, I think that's great because I think from a recovery perspective, it's very black and white, either you're an active addiction or you're completely sober. And so to really think about this, these people who are in the middle and giving them a resonant story that they can identify with as well as resources, probably really great.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

Persona Vs Self Under The Algorithm

SPEAKER_01

Um, but I feel like from the reading I did, I mean, there's more than one audience. I think you're obviously also speaking to your fans and sort of the whole story of how Hunger FF comes into being and what it's like to do that. So can you talk a little bit about because Hunger FF is sort of a whole separate character in Deeper? Tell me a little bit about what it's like to have that and have to feed it and what it gives you and what it takes from you.

SPEAKER_02

I'm sure you're having your own podcast, I'm sure you're kind of familiar with what it means to feed us. So um, I it is a lot, it's a lot of work. It is like a whole other entity, it's like a whole other person. It's um it's uh and it and I talk about it in in the book. It's um as this idea of this invisible monster called the algorithm that's just constantly hungry and constantly needing to be fed and constantly needing to be, you know, um, you share stuff with it and then it spits out you know validation in the form of likes, comments, and shares. And so um Hunger FF survives on likes, comments, shares, and compliments. And so like um, and so you know, there's a part of me that wrote it for the people for my fans, I guess, which is sort of an even an icky thing for me to say, but it's um I didn't I wait, wait, wait, it icky why I I don't know. Did you have having fans is kind of icky? I mean, you do. I know I do, I know it's weird. It's a weird, it's a weird kind of place. It's a weird this is me being in the middle somewhere, so I don't really know how yeah, it's all good. Um, and so uh yeah, no, I writing about Hunger FF was also therapeutic, um part how I kind of how he began. And a lot of people have this misperception of how he started, and he started off as a giant middle finger to an ex-boyfriend, and so um that morphed into this other, you know, thing that basically took on a life of its own. So um, yeah, I mean I I I had as much of a good time writing about Hunger FF as much as I did deconstructing him and what he means to me in my life.

SPEAKER_01

So Yeah. And I mean, you are noting that Hunger FF sort of lives for the likes, but but there's also like Hunger FF is is your paycheck, and Hunger FF is also this potent aspirational educational image for people. So, you know, it's not just about the likes, like there's really like making a living, but also really giving people something to work towards.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and that's that's that's something that I kind of still wrestle with every once in a while, where I'm like, I you know, on my website I say um I'm not a role model, I'm just a slut with a cell phone camera. Yeah. And so um, because that's really what I feel like. I mean, like I don't really I didn't set out to be a role model, but I kind of got this label or this um this name tag put on me by other people. So and I always feel like I'm the worst role model for people to have.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So I'm like, no, don't look, look, don't look at me, look at um Axelabis. He's got his shit way more together than I do. So um uh and I joke around about that too, about how he's like the buffy to my faith. And um and uh yeah, so I don't know. I just uh I he is a paycheck, but he's also I talk about him in third person. So yeah, I'm sure he's also just kind of he's a part of me, and and he does give people something to look look towards. So um between the podcasts and like just the the videos and all that stuff, so I'm I'm I'm not mad about that part. I'm not mad, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And I I mean I I do like as someone who does have his own sort of social media presence, um, there's Edge and then there's the actual human being behind it. And so part of what I also loved about the book is that we really get to see Ryan. Yeah, it's not just like Ryan is as big a character as hunger. So can you talk a little bit about that? How you what you want people to know about Ryan as a human being?

SPEAKER_02

Um yeah, sure. I guess I would just like people to know that I'm flawed and um damaged, just like everybody else. That there's this idea that content creators live these perfect, perfect lives because and and really that we all live this perfect life because we curate what we put on the internet, right? Um, and and we show people a side of ourselves that we want them to see, and we don't necessarily let the curtain um back on on the stuff that we don't want them to see. And so this is really kind of pulling the curtain back on everything and um showing people kind of exactly what my life has been like for the last 20 years. Um and so Ryan gets like a fair share of the spotlight because a lot of my time has been spent as as me. Um, but uh yeah, I think that there's just the thing that I would most want people to take away from it is that I'm human and flawed just like everybody else. That yeah, there's no perfect persona person, there's no perfect person behind the persona, is uh is what I was getting at.

SPEAKER_01

So yeah, and and so from my reading of the book, there are three main characters. There's hunger and there's Ryan, and then there's the addict. Can you talk a little bit about how you are negotiating that triad today? Like, how are you finding balance between these different forces that are pulling you in different directions and can be quite damaging? What what are you doing to manage that?

SPEAKER_02

Well, right now it's staying busy is one of them. Like staying busy. Um, I felt like for a while my wheels were just spinning and I didn't really have like a ton of I had a lot of projects in the motion, but nothing really happening. And so now I have everything happening, like the podcast is happening, the book is happening, the website's happening, the you know, um there's all these things that I'm working on are kind of coming to fruition finally. And so I'm spending a lot more time as the Ryan part of my brain and the Hunger FF part of my brain trying to like map all this stuff out and make it all happen successfully. Um and so I guess I just really I need to figure out, you know, I'm doing a little bit more self-actual self-analyzing here on the show. I'm like, I need to figure out a way to just be content at rest. Yeah. Um, so because I'm I do feel like I operate best either in chaos or under like serious stress. And so it's like um those are like the two places that I function the the the best. Um and so I just need to figure out, you know, for myself one day. At some point, you know, this is about being in the middle again, about trying to figure out how to be exist in the calm uh space.

SPEAKER_01

Well, and talk about being human. I think uh almost everyone struggles with being content and being comfortable in our skin. And I think throughout our lives, we get so accustomed to chaos and distress and to what's next that that sitting with peace is super uncomfortable. So I mean you're just sort of reinforcing the fact that you're actually human.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, exactly. I just I don't know, I don't know how to sit with the with the quiet. I don't know how I still haven't figured it out yet. So, but um I'm working on it.

SPEAKER_01

So I mean, you did just mention before the interview that you did yoga. Do you find those sorts of practices help?

SPEAKER_02

I just started. This is only my second session, so I'll let you know in a couple weeks. So I did just start it because I um I realized I'm I'm um after my surgery um my accident, um, I've just not been doing any kind of like physical, I've just been really lazy. And so I was like, what can I do that's less less low low impact, low stress? And um, my doctor suggested I start yoga, and so I did, and it's been going really good so far. I'm getting some mobility back in my leg that it was fucked up, and so yeah, it's all good.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you just mentioned your accident and your surgery, and there's a lot of emotional trauma in deeper, but there's some actual physical trauma too. Can you give us for people who don't really know what's going on with you, can you tell us about what happened physically and give us that sort of story?

SPEAKER_02

So um back in March of last year, 2025, I um was getting ready to film a scene for my website. Um, and I just was getting ready to douche like any other millionth times I've done it in the in my life and put the nozzle tip in my ass and accidentally poked a hole through my colon.

SPEAKER_03

Uh god.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it was the worst. It wasn't an immediate pain, but it was an an accelerating pain that just got worse and worse and worse. And I knew immediately that I had done something wrong. I did something damaging. And so I went into emergency surgery about an hour later. I took an Uber to the hospital because I didn't have anybody to drive me, and so I was like, and I didn't think it was serious enough to call an ambulance, and so I just called, I just drove an Uber, and yeah, that was horrible. Um, because every pothole was like a fucking knife in my stomach. Um, and so when I finally got the surgery, I came out of the anesthesia and I realized I had they had basically diverted my colon out the side of my stomach, gave me a stoma, um, which I'm stern currently still living with. I was supposed to only have it for four to six weeks. It's now been a year and a half, a little over a year. Yeah, it was my one year, it's been a year, a little over a year. Um, it was just I'm stuck in insurance bureaucratic nonsense and bullshit and stuff like that, and and a couple other health issues that happened since then that have prevented me from getting the reconnection surgery. But I'm supposed to be having dinner with my surgeon sometime in the next week to talk about when we're gonna get that done. So I'm glad it is reversible. So that's the nice part about my my story. Not everybody is lucky or fortunate enough to have a reversible uh colon perforation, but I luckily you am.

SPEAKER_01

So and so for someone whose life and identity really kind of centers on their butthole, like what has been, I mean, have you been traumatized by this experience, or have you found a way to just be like, well, it is what it is, I'm gonna move forward. Like, what is it? What was that like for you, not just physically but emotionally?

Three Chapters To Start With

SPEAKER_02

I remember when I woke up out of surgery and when I was in the hospital, I had three days where I had my phone taken away from me because I was considered a suicide risk because when I woke up from surgery, I said I was gonna kill myself. When I looked down, I saw the bag, which I didn't actually mean, but I looked down and I saw, and the first thing out of my mouth was oh you know, is is is was rooted in the fact that this is my identity, is like, oh my god, what am I gonna do? Like, I'm this is horrible. And so I had three days without without a phone, without access to my friends, without access to my to anybody, um, where I just got to think about how I was gonna handle this going forward. And it if I've every time I've ever done the 12 steps, my fourth step is always about my fears inventory, is always about hurting my butthole. Like hurting my hole is like always at the top of my list of things I don't want to have happen to me. And so I feel like I really have lived through my worst fear in life. Um, and so I've walked through it, and so I had this option in my head. I was like, you either you can either let it destroy you as I've seen it destroy lots of other guys, or I can just Try to roll with it and make the best of it and and do what I can with it and see what my life can be like with it. And that's kind of the decision I made. I remember sitting in, I remember very there's certain nexus moments in my life where like I um I remember like certain decisions being made. I remember when I decided to do Hunger FF, I remember deciding to start like the website. I remember deciding that I wasn't gonna let the fit the accident beat me and just like deciding that I was gonna roll with it. And and and it's kind of nice not having to douche to clean out or to get this. So I'm not gonna lie, it's not the worst thing. Never been cleaner, never been cleaner. I've never been cleaner. It's never there's there's perks to it. So I'm like, I'm rolling with the perks and just gonna take the good with the bad.

SPEAKER_01

So and and and you do talk about this in Deeper, and and the whole structure of it is very kind of little vignettes that are grouped together. And if you were to recommend to someone the top three that you think really should like, oh, if they could only read three little chapters, read these three because they are the most important, the most impactful, the most revelatory. Like, where would you really direct people?

SPEAKER_02

I feel like you asked me this last time, and I am gonna come up with three completely different answers.

SPEAKER_01

That's okay, because I don't remember what you said last time.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, so Vortex. I was just talking to a friend of mine the other day. We were talking about um vortex as vortex is a really good idea of an examination of what the addict in me is like. And um, it's it's about kind of like being somebody's Monday morning relapse, somebody's Wednesday after party, and somebody's Friday um like therapist, and just how the party doesn't ever seem to stop because it's like I'm always there for somebody else. And so it's like this this this this non-stop vortex that just kind of keeps pulling me in. Um, so that that's kind of a really good deconstruction of like the addict part of me. Um, I like Trap a lot, uh Trap dissects um the difference between Hunger FF and Ryan James, and kind of where the you know how Hunger FF sort of started. And then um I'm gonna say this is different than what I said before. The final chapter is called Rune Blood, which is about um uh it kind of reframes the book as in a way that's it's kind of an homage. Like I'm I'm I'm really like um I'm a huge Marvel fan, Marvel and um Scarlet Witch, WandaVision, like that whole thing. So it kind of reframes the entire book as like spell work, as kind of like spell Hunger FF has like a spell cast that um and then the runes that I had tattooed on my arms when I was a kid um as um as protection spells basically. Um so it's kind of just re-wraps the entire it kind of wraps the book up and um it does wrap the book up and then in in just a kind of different way than I think people would expect for the book to end.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and I think one of the nice things about the book is it's not necessarily linear, like you can just jump in any of these little chapter vignettes and read around. You don't have to go from the front to the back, you can really kind of explore different points of entry.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so if you like you want to read all about my addiction stuff, it's all in vices. If you want to read about the moments of collapse, it's all in breaks. If you want to read about the good stuff that happened afterwards, it's all in climb. So um, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, so you've completed this book. Your uh your your strategy for coping with life is staying busy. So what's next for you? Like what are some projects that you're actively working on right now?

SPEAKER_02

Uh right now I'm really focused on getting the book out to the world as much as I possibly can. And then um my website, hungerff.com, is going through a redesign right now. We're re um we're using a new merchant processor now. So it's like it's gonna the user experience will be a lot more stable, a lot more um uh you know, um predictable for um the customer experience. Basically, it's uh we're using CC Bill now, which is a different credit card processor. Most people that have ever signed up for a porn site are familiar with them. Um, and then uh I'm working on releasing. I do like this sort of started off as like a little side like joke project, but like I started um using Suno to make um fisting music, and then um and it kind of took on a life of its own where people actually were listening to this are listening to the music, the the songs that I'm making and this app. And so I'm been dropping new music like every week, and so that's been sort of like a fun little side hustle project that's more creativity about just like what what are these crazy ideas I can and this crazy app that can make them into music. So um I've been doing a little bit of that, and then yeah, just the the podcast, my podcast Bro Labs uh every week. Uh that's been keeping me very busy. Every week I've got new guests, and it's uh it's a grind, as as you are aware.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, well I'm aware. So but it's a good grind.

SPEAKER_02

I might like the podcast, it's some like the most like um I think fun I've had creating content in years. Like actually getting to talk to other people and not just film with them, like talk to them and get to know them a little bit. It's like laying the groundwork for future filming, and it's it's really been really super fun.

SPEAKER_01

That's great. And uh, how is the book doing in terms of sales reception? How's that going?

SPEAKER_02

Um, I'm waiting for my haters to get a hold of it. So far, so far the the receptions percept the reception has been really positive. It's been um Amazon is just five-star reviews. Um and it's sold um almost uh we're closing in on 200 copies now by the end of the by the end of next month. I'll hit 200. So um it's sold a lot, a lot, a lot of copies. And this is my first kind of, I told you this last time. This is my first press slice slash promo I've been doing for this book at all. So um I've been doing it's all word of mouth and everything so far. So I'm just really grateful for the people that have bought it and the people that have reviewed it and and read it, enjoyed it, liked it. Even if they hated it, I still appreciate them taking the time to look at it. So um, yeah, it's been it's been a really cool ride.

SPEAKER_01

And we will include in the show notes links to Amazon where you can buy it, links to hungerff.com where you can buy it, sweet, and links to your podcasts and any other social media you want people to find.

SPEAKER_02

You gotta come on my show one of these days.

SPEAKER_01

I would I never I'm never on anyone's show. I would be thrilled.

SPEAKER_02

Come on, come on Brolapse with me and we'll talk about what it's like hosting a fetish podcast.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my god, I would I would be I would I would love for that. I actually would it'd be super fun. Yeah, but you do you do video too, right?

SPEAKER_02

Like you're I do do video too, yes. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01

I will I will dress up for you.

Younger Creators And COVID Fisting Babies

SPEAKER_02

And I'll clean my room. So normally it's normally much cleaner than this.

SPEAKER_01

So uh what else do you think people really need to know about deeper? What do you want to make sure? What's the message you want to make sure people leave here with?

SPEAKER_02

Um I want people to, I mean, kind of rebuilding our building on what I said before is just that it is for it's for people that are somewhere in the middle and somewhere that need a voice through the noise. And so it's like there's a lot of a lot of recovery narratives out there. There's a lot of um there's a lot of recovery narratives out there, and this is not that exactly. Um, and so um, and that uh there's a lot of content creators out there that are gonna be going through what I'm going through now at some point in the near future. You know what I mean? It's like there's a gen I've been doing this for 20 years now, and so there's a generation of content creators that have not yet quite had the identity crisis that I've had yet. So um that it's coming. So um I guess for all of them too. I mean, like it's kind of like um, you know, I just I just pick apart my brain and and and and and kind of show people what's going on behind the behind the curtain, finally, for the first time.

SPEAKER_01

So I actually I love that you mentioned that it's also for younger content creators because you know, increasingly I am running into guys who are 20 in fisting, 18 in their fisting. Yeah, and so it's the sense there's like a whole generation that is starting from day one to do fisting and yeah, I need both the education you're providing, but also the sort of like, well, let me tell you how to really navigate that. Are you finding that as well? Like, there's a lot of really young fisting people out there.

SPEAKER_02

There is, it's crazy. Well, I call them covet, I call them COVID fisting babies because uh like they basically like most of them like spawned during COVID, and like um, with when you had nothing to do it sit at home with like whoever you're potted with and either put stuff up your butt or like fist each other, basically, is what I think a lot of people found. And so um there's just this whole generation of younger guys that don't have the stigma attached to it that my generation had. They don't have the um there's guys that look like them that are already doing porn, that are already doing fisting porn that that gives them the permission to do fisting porn or fisting in general, and so there's like this whole new um wave of people that are that are into it, but they also don't have like they also like turned fisting on its head, like it used to be all black and red, leather, like you know, and now it's now it's very gender fluid, very, very queer, very like um it does its own fisting can be like pretty much anything to anyone, and so it's kind of been cool to watch. I've been I've been sort of on the sidelines for the not sideline, not the sidelines, but I've been sort of watching from within and without of the the arena, I guess. And so um it's been cool to see.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I mean, I will say, like um my implicit sense, and granted I'm living in this beautiful bubble of Wilton Manners, which is super queer. My implicit sense is that increasingly fisting isn't even kinky anymore. Like fisting, fisting is kind of vanilla now.

SPEAKER_02

It is, it is, and I remember when it used to be subversive and like and like um I would I felt like I was doing something like wrong, like it was edgy, and now it's not edgy at all. Like it's like everybody's fisting. If you're not fisting, it's kind of like it's kind of weird.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so although you do talk in the book about how the algorithm drives you to kind of find new ways of being edgy and a little more extreme. Can you talk a little bit about that in relation to fisting scene as a whole? Like, are a lot of do you think a lot of people are finding themselves being pushed to go deeper deeper?

SPEAKER_02

Oh yeah. I I I do. I think that people are you know, unintended. Um people are um being, I mean, this is why we see people getting fisted on the in the back of the sub of of subway cars or the on the outside of the woods or like out, you know, uh you know, some you know, in these really insane places doing these really insane things. And what I think that people don't remember is that like just because you can push your body to the limits doesn't mean you need to do it every day on the internet for the rest of your life. Right. And so um I guess you guys just doing really insane tricks, and I and I'm just like, God, I hope that I hope they're okay. Like, right, um, because um, and they're you know, as somebody who's lived through their worst fear, like it is scary to to go through the the the injury process. And so I think the algorithm kind of pushes you to to do more extreme things, and it's really up to the person to decide what what the limit is, and um yeah, but then on top of that, like if you're if you're already fisting at 22, like where do you go from there? I was doing so don't say where do you go from there? Because there's there's always places. I mean, fisting is kind of like in my opinion, like I know what this is, but my biased opinion is like pinnacle, like I'm I'm super biased. It's like pinnacle cases. So it's like when you reach when you've achieved that at 22, then good on you. You get 60 more years of that. So, like, um, but um, if um I don't know, I don't know where you go from there. I think it's just kind of enjoying where you're at.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, that's a beautiful message. I don't know that's how people are operating out there.

SPEAKER_02

I don't think so either. Everybody always wants deeper, wider, harder, faster.

SPEAKER_01

So right, exactly. Like, um, how how how much bigger things can I shove out my bar hole?

Fisting Advice For Longevity

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Well, eventually your hips are gonna give out. So like, as uh as I've learned from my right hip. So Oh, really? Oh my god, no, I don't totally think it's unrelated. I think it's completely unrelated. I'm just joking. But it's like I'm just learning that like uh my your body does eventually start to wear and tear over time.

SPEAKER_01

Well, let me make a slight pivot because I mean you were the star of the fisting episode, and uh and this season is about returning to topic. So even though this episode's about deeper, let's talk a little bit about fisting. If you were to give advice to these young fisters about what they can do at that age to help protect their body for longevity, like do yoga, eat this kind of diet. Like, what kind of advice would you give to people having been through all you've been through? Like, oh, if only you were to do X at that age, you could get lasting that much longer.

SPEAKER_02

I you know what? I don't know if because my accident was really kind of a fluke accident. It was a really weird kind of just wrong pressure, wrong nozzle, wrong hole at the wrong time. And so, like, um, I don't really necessarily know if I would have done I would have done a lot of things differently, but not when it comes to fisting. I mean, like, I think I I I I adjusted, I I listened to my body for I listened to my body for the this is how I was able to survive the accident, was that I listened to my body immediately. I knew something was wrong, um, and I did something about it as fast as I could. And so I think really listening to your body is really the biggest thing and like trusting your trusting your um your body to tell you when not even no, I wouldn't even give that advice because that's that's maybe just try to maybe edit that part out. Um I wouldn't say um to trust your body because uh your body can sometimes lie to you and not tell you to find things, and so it could like you know not tell you that there's uh perforation and then you're just left there and then you know whatever. So um, yeah, I would um just recommend taking it slow. Taking it slow.

SPEAKER_01

Actually, I think that's a really beautiful message because I do feel like in kink in general, people are so rushing to get to the next thing that they don't stop to sort of enjoy whatever pinnacle they're at.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and they there's no like the the destination is not as important as the dis cliche as that sounds. The journey is more important than the destination, and so it's like it's all that kind of like the progress towards getting to, and I don't even necessarily know if there is an ultimate destination for fisting. What do you think? You crawl inside somebody, like it's like you know, like what's the destination? Because I mean I still am looking for kind of what's you know, I'm not necessarily looking for what's next, but I'm looking for you know, there's I'm always kind of exploring, and so and I'm you know, pretty advanced, and so like um I don't know. It's uh right.

SPEAKER_01

So the general advice is to younger people is take it slow. Let's also what advice would you give? In fact, maybe it's the same answer. What advice would you give to someone of any age who is starting to explore fisting? And what's the advice to help them get their first fist?

SPEAKER_02

To get their first fist, I would say um take it slow, trust your partner, and play with somebody that's more it's easier when you play with somebody that's more experienced than you. If you can find somebody that's kind of able to mentor you or coach you or guide you, um, it's better than two newbies kind of trying to figure it out as they go because there's more mistakes that are likely to be made, more likely to hood for accidents or injury. Um so yeah, I would say just uh try to buddy up with somebody that's more experienced than you that can kind of walk you through it and use a lot of lube. A lot of lube. There's no such thing as too much lube.

SPEAKER_01

And I I know a lot of fisting people have their own secret formulas for lube, like three drops of clove oil and a tablespoon of Crisco. And right, so do you have a preferred lube? Like what lube do you tend to like?

SPEAKER_02

I am a purist. I just use straight J Lube. X Lube will probably hate. I know, I know it's so old-fashioned. Xlube will probably like sh stab me through the heart if they hear this episode. But yeah, I use just straight J Lube. I mean, like I used to have this concoction that I'd make with like mineral oil and like clove oil and um a little bit of like asper cream and like uh elbow grease and J-Lube in a blender. And now I just I'm just lazy and I just do straight J Lube and it works for me.

SPEAKER_01

So actually, I thought but I think there's something sort of beautifully ritualistic about these complicated lube formulas. It really is this kind of like literally ritualistic preparing some alchemical potion for your body.

SPEAKER_02

This is what works for me. This is what works. Okay, okay, sure. You need 18 different ingredients to make your butthole open up. I got it. Okay, it's fine.

SPEAKER_01

So I think I mean that also really speaks to how much of this is uh about what's going on in your head, not only just what's going on in your body. And if you feel like, oh, this magic formula is gonna open up my butthole, well, that's gonna open up your butthole.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, exactly. So I don't knock anybody for whatever kind of lube that they want to use, not go crazy.

SPEAKER_01

So yeah, I mean I I don't know very many other scenes that have that level of complicated, individualized, like I don't because it's I mean if you guys are to water sports about what you drink and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_02

So yeah, but I mean like you know, as far as like in each individual person, like needing it down to their the you know everybody makes their lube a little differently.

Aftercare And The First Fist Memory

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, everybody so uh your advice in general to people is go slow. Your advice to people trying to take their first fist is go slow and and find a good buddy who knows more than you do, and always more lube. Always more lube and your lube is up to you. Um what about aftercare? Do you have any advice to people after they've taken their first fist? Like what sort of thing are there physical things they should be doing, emotional things they should be doing? Like what does aftercare look like?

SPEAKER_02

I think being in tune with yourself emotionally is probably is it's it's the most important thing because you go through a lot of feelings, right? You go through a lot of it's like a really intense, it's something that you've looked at most guys are like working towards achieving and then finally do achieve it. And it's like this like this is satisfaction, but also this like hunger for more and like wanting to do more. And so um checking in with yourself and just being okay again with where you're at, um, and just kind of going, like I said, I mean when I say this again, going slow. I mean, just kind of being um taking care of your body afterwards. I used to always put like um ice cubes or like preparation H on my hole afterwards for years I did that, but now it feels like it's like mostly Teflon coated, and so uh I used to do that for years, and so I used to have this little nighttime ritual with my ex. So we'd a little preparation H on our holes before we went to bed. It was so weird, it was such a weird thing that we did, but it was like taking care of each other afterwards. Um uh and then yeah, just kind of not beating yourself up if you don't achieve like what you hope to achieve in that session, I guess.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, although I mean I love that you hit that sort of emotional component because I think the first time you take a fist is an incredibly special moment. I I think that's something that really lands on people. Like you said, you've been working towards it, and it and it does feel like you've joined a club or you've passed a test, like it just feels like now you're a big boy. I mean, it's it's a powerful moment.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it's really a cool moment, it's a cool feeling though. I mean, I'll never forget like my the first time I took a fist. I mean, that's like ingrained in my memory forever. So, um, and so um I was in this daddy's house, this dungeon in um Novi, Michigan. And it was he had a basement that was like a dungeons play space, and I hopped in the sling and got fisted. And I just remember wanting it out immediately and then wanting right back in. So, like I was like, was it pretty common? I think it's like though get it out, get it out, get it out, get it out. Oh, okay. I think that's pretty common. So um, yeah, that's what I went through too.

Why He Self-Published Deeper

SPEAKER_01

So yeah. Well, um, well, thank you for all those advice tips for people. And do you think you have another book in you after deep heart? Are we gonna be doing this again?

SPEAKER_02

I don't know if I could do this again. I don't know if I have more soul scraping to do, but um, I probably do. I mean, like I I don't know, maybe I'll write something fictional. I don't know, but I I don't know if I have it would be something totally different. I don't think I would do the same thing twice. I don't think I've read another memoir. I don't think I have a anti-memoir. Another anti-memoir. No, it would be a long time before I ever had it felt like I had enough to say because I I got a lot. There's the book is 440 pages long, so there's a lot in there, so it's like I poured a lot out of me into that. So it's um I don't necessarily know if I have a whole lot else to uh other more stories to share, but um, I still have another life to live, so that's true.

SPEAKER_01

But I mean, I also imagine you only have so much time and energy because much like Hunger F the Empire, like you did this book all yourself, right? Like you you did the layout, you did the printing, you did everything, right?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, everything was my completely on my own, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And what led to that decision? What what was that process like? Because it sounds exhausting.

SPEAKER_02

Uh it sounds exhausting. Let me tell you, going through and tediously deleting the page numbers from the blank pages in the book that are used to space the book out appropriately, um, is was I was like cross-eyed by the time I was done. Um, it was um I had worked with a publisher initially that I was really excited about, and then um their timeline for the book was a little different than what mine was, and so we decided to separate ways, and I decided to really in the end, what did what the deciding factor for me was that I have never given away ownership or control over any part of my story or brand since I started. And so it's like I sat there and I was like, why am I willing to do it now for something that's as important as my story? Like, why would I give away ownership or control over um something as important as what I have to say, basically? My entire ethos of like the my entire time as Hunger FF. So I decided to to self publish it and and retain the ownership of the story myself, the copyright, and and all that. And so my copyright's sitting right next to my trade. Mark, I'm my I'm my my entertainment center on my living. Yeah, it's kind of neat. Um so yeah, they really just the desire to stay in control of my story was really one of what what prompted me to to do that all by myself. Which was and I've learned how to podcast alone, I've learned how to do video edit alone, I've learned how to write a book alone, I've learned how to publish a book alone. So I figured I could figure it out if I tried. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It's available in Kindle, paperback, and hardcover, correct?

SPEAKER_02

Yes, yep, yep. This is all on Amazon. Um easier link is hungerf.com slash deeper. Uh that PIP points you directly to the um the Amazon page or hungerf.com slash shop if you want to buy it directly from me.

SPEAKER_01

And people can also buy a special signed copy, correct?

SPEAKER_02

Signed covers, um, signed and numbered copies are available. Those are almost sold out. Um, only 30 books each, and so those are just a few left. Um and yeah, they're um but I'll always have the book available and um to buy directly from me, or you can get it from Amazon directly. It's easier. Um whichever floats your boat.

SPEAKER_01

And I will have those links, and I'm gonna repeat something you said the last time we did this, which is hungerf.com slash deeper is work safe. Yes. Hungerf.com slash shop or shopping or whatever. It is not work safe.

SPEAKER_02

Do not open it at work, do not get yourself fired because of me. So yeah, that's that's that's very true. Anything hunger, well, yeah, if hungerf.com slash deeper is the only link that's probably safe for work that's comes out of hungerf.com. So all right.

SPEAKER_01

So if you're listening to this, if you're in that murky middle where 12-step recovery isn't working for you, but you also don't want to just lose yourself in total addiction, this is the book for you. If you're curious about balancing being human and having an online presence that has some standing, this is the book for you. If you want to see the very human person that is Ryan, who's navigating being Ryan and being hunger and being an addict, this is the book for you. If you want juicy tidbits and dirt, and this is true, this is the book for you. So uh please consider checking it out. And uh, Ryan, it's been uh super pleasure. And this this one has gone so much more smoothly. I'm so glad.

SPEAKER_02

I know it's really good. I was thinking that I was just gonna say, I was like, this is like the way this is the of the two, this is the best one.

SPEAKER_01

So it is the best one. So all of y'all are getting the better product because even the whole interview went better too, as well as the recording.

SPEAKER_02

So for sure.

SPEAKER_01

And uh, I'm sure we'll have you back sometime, maybe season five.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and come in to do prolapse with me.

SPEAKER_01

Can't wait. All right, cool. Thanks.

SPEAKER_02

Yep, bye.

Ask Edge Begins And How To Submit

Mentoring In Leather Without Harm

SPEAKER_01

Bye. And now it's time for Ask Edge, the segment where I answer questions from all of you. This segment obviously relies on you because if I don't get questions, I don't have answers. So if you would like to submit a question about anything, doesn't have to be some profound question, it could be something about my life or about my journey. You can send me a voicemail at speakpipe.com slash leatheredge. That's speakpipe.com slash lthr e-d G E. Or you can send me an email at ask at fullcow.show. Both of those links are available in the show notes. So we have a couple questions this time, and the first one is a voicemail from Jamie.

SPEAKER_00

Hey Edge, it's Jamie here, otherwise known as Hobbler. I've recently been contacted by somebody who is new to leather, is not far off my age, a little bit younger, and has been asking me lots of questions. Uh, wants to meet up with me, and we're talking about him getting his first piece of leather together. And I'm finding myself in a position where I could be a mentor or a big brother to this guy. And I'm not new to having a degree of influence on the scene or a voice on the scene, but I am new to this direct sort of mentorship and this mentor relationship. I don't see it being a survey relationship, I see it being more of a mentor dynamic. So, as somebody who I presume has had a lot more experience in that kind of mentorship, how do you start mentoring people, or where did you see that transition? And do you have any advice in terms of being a good influence and navigating this? Because I do want to make sure that that this guy has a good time, and I also don't want to be too possessive. I know he's going to move on when he gets more comfortable and he'll find someone. So, do you have any thoughts on that? And love the show. Appreciate you.

Practical Tips For Title Contests

Closing Thanks And Subscribe

SPEAKER_01

Thank you for that question, Jamie. By the way, I know Jamie and I adore Jamie. When I was first doing my solo international travel to Dublin, he was one of my local contacts. And uh, anytime I had a question, he just gave me tons of information, like, where can I go for breakfast? And it gives me six or seven places with these detailed reviews. And he just made my trip there so much more joyful. And I absolutely adore him. And in fact, he's going to be on an episode soon. Um, so Jamie, thank you for the question. There are really two components I think you asked. The first is sort of how do you make that transition into mentorship? What was that like? And then how do you how do you do your best at mentoring? And for me, I think part of what makes mentoring challenging is because the transition is a little unvisible. Like I didn't just wake up one day and say, oh, today I'm going to be a mentor. But I found that over time people were coming to me who had less experience, who were had questions, who were looking up to me in some way. And so it sort of snuck up on me. And that that's the first risk, right? Like, because if I didn't have a clear sense of mentoring is what I was doing, then I was kind of stumbling and bumbling and finding my way. Since there was no clear demarcation, oh, now I'm going to start mentoring people. The tools available to me were very blunt. And in fact, I did some really I did some real damage to a couple people because I didn't set very clear boundaries about what that mentoring relationship was. And so there was a lot of confusion and a lot of miscommunication on my side, and people got very hurt. So the biggest piece of advice I have for you when it comes to mentoring is be very, very clear about the boundaries, i.e., is there going to be sex involved? Is that appropriate? Are you going to have a very formal mentorship where they commit to doing homework and getting you exit number times a week? What are the expectations? Where are the where are the lines that should not be crossed? You need to be really explicit about that, because if not, the potential for harm uh in my experience was pretty significant. So that's hard to do if you don't know your mentoring. If you just sort of stumble into it, you don't think to make all these boundaries. So I think you're in a good place already because you you kind of realize that that's what this is, mentoring. This is what you're going to do, mentor. And now you're able to kind of really think about what kind of load you want on your time and energy and what is acceptable and what's not acceptable. Obviously, you don't simply decide this unilaterally. Instead, you are working with them and negotiating, as we do in all the things we do in the scene. There's also a great resource, J. Tobias Perry has a book on leather mentorship. You might want to check that out. Um, it gives some really good overall conceptual frameworks for thinking about mentoring. And then the rest of it is sort of, you know, it does end up being a little organic. It does end up being a little organic because you're each on this journey that's intersected for a while. And besides boundaries, the other thing I would say is make sure that the relationship is beneficial to you, that it feels good to mentor, that you feel enriched by helping someone on their journey. Because I think it's also possible to end up in these situations where you feel obligated to mentor, and then it doesn't feel very good, and then you end up resentful and then more problems. So first, be aware that you are mentoring, because it can sneak up into your life. Second, set very clear boundaries about what it is and what it's not. And then third, I just forgot what the third one was, but you remember it because you're listening to the show and you just heard it. What was the third one? Uh yeah. The third one. Sorry, it's Sunday and I'm tired. Um, and Jamie, thank you so much for that question. And our second question comes from Buzz Sprout's fan mail. So Buzz Spout is Buzz Sprout is the host for my podcast files and actually hosts the fullcow.show website and has a feature where you can leave me fan mail, and then this seemed like a good place to answer that fan mail. This is a comment/slash question from Alex, Gentleman Color. Hi there, Edge. I'm planning to run for a local leather contest this year and found your interview with Renee very informative. In an earlier podcast, you mentioned as a contest judge you dislike leather jocks. Actually, I I abhor then, but yes, I dislike them. Do you have any other advice for aspiring title holders? I know to be yourself, I mean practical advice. Ha ha ha. Wow, you know, this is really a little challenging because contests are inherently unpredictable based on who you're competing with and what the particular composition of the judges is. And so there's no there's no simple practical advice. However, if I were to give some practical advice, uh, first is prepare for the interview, but not too much. You don't want to be overprepared because then it can actually mess you up and you can come off as very practiced or rehearsed, artificial, inauthentic. We don't like that. But you want to have some sense of being able to answer questions on the fly. You want to do a little bit of research. For example, probably useful to know who other current titles to let holders are, particularly if your contest is feeding into something like IML. Knowing some history of IML would be important. I think it's uh a common question I've seen on judging panels is asking you about what other women have influenced you or impacted your life or who you know, so that there's a real sense that you're not narrowly focused on one segment of the community, but you have a sense of other segments. So you want to do a little bit of homework, but not too much. Contests are won and lost in the interview. And that's why a lot of times if you go to a contest and you see someone on stage, you're like, oh my God, they're so amazing, they're so perfect, they've got to win, and they don't win. It's not, it's not because of what happened on stage, it's because of what happened on the interview. Contests are won and lost on the interview. So the first thing to do is a little bit of preparation, but not too much. And if it's possible, do some mock interviews with friends just so you become comfortable speaking in front of a group, on the fly, and come off pretty coherent. In an interview, at some point they're going to ask you something you don't know the answer, tell them you don't know the answer. When the interview is over, go find the answer, find the judges, and tell them the answer. That's uh behavior I've seen pretty commonly in a few different contests. And I always I always in my head give them points for that, that they made the effort to find the answer, because you can't know everything all at once. Beyond that, uh think very carefully and intentionally about the gear you're wearing and make sure it looks good on you, and make sure that it is well cared for. So that means giving a good cleaner polish before the show. Unless, you know, the specific outfit is for a fantasy scene and it's a little grungy, then keep things a little grungy. And the other thing I think it's really the third thing I will say that you can do practically is be very reflective about why you are running for a contest. You want to have crystal clear, unbiased vision of why you're doing this, why it's important to you, what you want to do with the title. Not only is that going to be probably a question in the interview, but it's going to kind of infuse all the actions you do during the contest. And I think a lot of people don't always have clarity about why they're doing it, or they don't, or they think they have clarity, but they haven't, because they haven't really been deeply reflective on it. So prepare for the interview, but not too much. Be intentional with your gear and make sure it's well cared for, and spend a lot of time being reflective and intentional about why you're doing this. Those are my pieces of practical advice. If there is a jock trap portion of the contest, just wear a good old dirty bike jock, man. It's so much better. I don't know why. It's like how many times I have to say this before someone does it. Hey, you know, I am judging um a contest in Austin in a couple weeks. If any of the contestants are listening, hey, you know what? If there's a jock trap, you know what's going to get my vote. Um and that's it. I thank you both for the questions. Uh, and I thank all of you for listening to the answers. If you have a question, please, please, please, please, please send it. I need these every segment. Uh, it really helps fill out the podcast. And by fill out, I mean balance just my talking headness on a topic by helping bring in other voices, other questions, other concerns that I can then engage and open up conversation about. So it's pretty important to me and I really appreciate it. And that's all for this episode of Full Cow. As always, I appreciate you. And that's it for this episode. Thank you so much for joining me. Please consider subscribing, or you can send feedback to edge at fullcow.show. As always, may your leather journey be blessed.