210. How to Navigate Holiday Stress & Family Expectations Without Losing Yourself with Bronwyn Schweigerdt

As we head into Thanksgiving week, many mompreneurs feel torn between gratitude and emotional overload. The holidays can awaken old patterns, activate expectations we didn’t know we were carrying, and leave us juggling business, motherhood, and emotional weight — all at once.

That’s why today’s conversation couldn’t come at a better time.

I’m welcoming back one of your favorite guests — Bronwyn Schweigerdt, psychotherapist, author, speaker, and host of the podcast Angry at the Right Things. Bronwyn helps us understand that anger isn’t something to hide or fix — it’s actually a powerful signal pointing us toward what matters most.

In this episode, we explore:
• Why the holidays activate emotional triggers for moms and mompreneurs
• How to communicate with children and family without walking on eggshells
• What it means to set boundaries with compassion — not guilt
• How to become your own mirror, instead of seeking approval from others
• How to carry emotional integration into the New Year

This conversation is real, hopeful, and deeply practical — especially if you’ve ever felt overwhelmed during the holidays or pressured to “make everything perfect” at the expense of your peace.

✨ 3 Takeaways You’ll Walk Away With

1. How to release guilt around holiday expectations and protect your peace
2. Tools to communicate emotional needs with family & kids (even during conflict)
3. How to step into 2025 anchored in self-trust instead of perfection

💛 Connect with Bronwyn

Podcast: Angry at the Right Things
Website + integration exercise: https://angryattherightthings.com

🎧Listen to the prior episode with Bronwyn on the podcast - Episode 121:

https://www.buzzsprout.com/1958082/episodes/15260102 

💫 Connect with Angela

Coaching & support for mompreneurs: https://mombusinesscoach.com

Podcast: The Good Enough Mompreneur
Instagram: @thegoodenoughmompreneur

💭 Reflection Question for You

What expectation are you carrying into the holidays that might no longer serve you?

If this episode resonated with you, please share it with a friend who might need it right now — and make sure to hit “follow” so you don’t miss the inspiring conversations coming in 2025!

 📩Download the FREE Podcast Episode Reflection Worksheet to get more out of each episode here

Connect with Angela at MomBusinessCoach.com

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐Leave a Review on Apple podcasts or wherever you listen! 🎧

Thank you for listening and keep up the great work, mama! 

Transcript

The Good Enough Mompreneur Podcast Episode 210 - Interview with Bronwyn Schweigerdt

[00:00:00] Thank you so much for joining us today on the podcast. Today. I'm welcoming back a guest I am sure many of you loved. I personally, it's up there with one of my favorite interviews. Um, and you joined us previously Bronwyn, but you're a psychotherapist. An author, speaker, and host of the podcast, angry at the right things, and you help people understand that anger isn't something to suppress, and that is such a radical concept.

It's a powerful signal pointing us towards what matters most. Mm-hmm. Like, just think about that, that that's huge. So through your work, you've helped high achieving women, moms and couples heal their deeper roots of anxiety, depression, and disconnection by reclaiming their emotions and learning to [00:01:00] express them with compassion and truth.

Yeah. And you're known for your bold honesty, your humor, and your ability to make the hard stuff feel hopeful and human. Hmm. And this conversation is especially timely as we head into the holidays. When emotions, expectations and relationships all collide and you're gonna bring so much wisdom to what we're all experiencing and it couldn't come at a better time.

Yeah. So welcome. Thanks for coming back. I'm excited for this conversation, even though it's like it's heavy. We're gonna talk about heavy things, but there's so much hope. You know, I've been on a healing journey and you know, we're a product, our business, our life, our families, our product of the inner work [00:02:00] that we do.

Yes. So, so welcome. Thank you. I'm excited to, to address the heavy stuff. Um, you know, when you say this time of year, you know, the first thing that comes to my mind is. These expectations that we have without our implicit or explicit knowledge. Like, you know, the holidays, there's just like this expectation, I don't know if you feel this, Angela, but I've always felt like, you know when you see a nice house and it looks warm and cozy and you imagine inside, there's like a family seeing her in a fireplace and they're just like.

Talking and reading and you know, I've always had this like fantasy. Yeah. Maybe someday I'll have that, you know, and, and um, we don't have that. No one has that really. Right. You know, especially when it comes to maybe we can make that with our family. Hmm. Maybe that's a goal someday, but most of us don't have [00:03:00] anything like that, especially with our own families of origin.

Mm-hmm. And, you know, it's hard because we want a cozy, warm. Place to feel welcome, to feel seen, to feel accepted, to feel approval. And most of us get very, very far from that. And this time of year is like, that is what gets activated whether we like it or not. Um, and so, you know, it made me think maybe we should talk about expectations.

And I wanna say like. We can do work around managing our expectations. Yeah. But we also need to do work around, you know, maybe I should expect more than I'm getting. Yeah, that is, is really powerful because, you know, we just don't realize how much we are subconsciously [00:04:00] cosigning on a moment to moment basis like.

I grew up with a mother who had borderline personality disorder, and so I constantly walked on eggshells, you know? Yeah. And I didn't realize this till decades later. She'd already passed on and I carried that with me, like, and I didn't realize, like, why was I panicking when I didn't have the perfect gift, or my house wasn't perfectly clean or.

It wasn't perfectly decorated inside or out. I didn't have the perfect outfit on. I didn't send the perfect Christmas card. I didn't send the, we didn't have the perfect outfits coordinating for the perfect family picture. So, yeah. Yeah, like there's this implicit expectation that there is a perfect, because with a borderline, and a lot of us have borderline parents a lot.

[00:05:00] I mean, both of mine are borderline. It's, you know, most of us have at least one parent who is borderline. So with a borderline there's no perfect, like there's no them being happy for more than a few minutes. There's idealization and you might, that might last five or 10 minutes, but it's not gonna last beyond that, and then there goes to devaluation where there's so unhappy and it, as a child, even an adult child, it's very confusing.

'cause you're like, what happened to when you. Idealized me. That felt so warm, right? That felt so good. How did I lose that? What can I do to get it back? Right? Mm-hmm. And so it's a, it's on our end. We're thinking we did something wrong, and we're not able to have objectivity and say no. Oh my God, you're borderline.

You're the one who's all messed up here, and there's no such thing as perfect, like Right. I'm never gonna make you happy for more than you know, a short amount of time. Right. [00:06:00] So for all of those people that, that are trying to live up these, these expectations that are either given to them by their parents or their friend group, or social media or advertising, how can we begin to manage and start to be the driver in our own car of expectations and what makes us happy and what's good enough?

Right. Yeah. And let's reclaim our lives by us deciding that for us, and us setting those parameters for ourselves and not outsource that to other people. Right? Absolutely. Yeah. So what, what should we expect more of? Maybe, you know, you said like you're still kind of recovering from, you know, walking on eggshells, maybe like a really healthy expectation.

For this time of year is to expect that we have [00:07:00] peace and we don't walk on eggshells for anyone.

Yeah. Yeah. And and not only that, but you know, setting like, how about like all the commitments that we also think. Make the perfect holiday season. Yeah. But leave us absolutely drained and for many people broke and mm-hmm. Just satisfied at the end of the holiday. Yeah. Like what are some of the ways that we can reframe when we're in the moment and we think we're doing what we need to be fulfilled, but really we're not setting that for ourselves.

It's somebody else's yardstick. Yeah. So maybe we can, if, let's say we decide that our, you know, objective is to just have a peaceful contented holiday season, um, and that's like number one, [00:08:00] maybe everything kind of runs through that filter. So if we need to do, you know, if we feel like we need to do X because the kids want that, or that's because we've always done that, maybe we can run, like, take a step back and go, wait, wait, wait, this x.

Make me peaceful and content, does it actually promote harmony in my children for more than again, a few minutes? Let's, let's think about long run here. Maybe they're thrilled for like that particular few hours, but maybe later they're not so great. After that they're drained. Maybe I'm kind of resentful 'cause I just spent all this money and now they're being little poop heads again.

You know? So let's think long term like. Is the end more peace, more contentedness, more joy, more harmony or not, and we can really start evaluating and reclaiming that for ourselves. And maybe we can enlist our partner, maybe even our [00:09:00] kids. That'd be fantastic to sit around and have a powwow in advance.

Like, you know, we usually do this and you know, I know your friends, they do this and we always, you know, feel like we, we should do this. Let's talk about. What is the best for everyone? Ultimately, let's really think it through together and let's, you know, maybe we can all agree on a few things. I can make some accommodations for you and you can make some accommodations for me.

Let's make this a team effort as a family. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I, as you're talking, I'm thinking. Wouldn't it be wonderful if like families sat together and like had their schedule and thought, okay, here's what we do, or here's what we, you know, usually do every holiday. We make 12 dozen types of cookies. We send out these cards, we try to find coordinating outfits and do the family picture.

[00:10:00] We put up seven trees and dad spends a whole Saturday outside putting up lights and how, for each of those things, think about how we feel. Mm-hmm. Do we really need to do it? Yeah, who, who wants to do it? Who, why is it important? And really like begin to, like for me, I don't do holiday cards anymore. Yeah.

It's like I'm not good at mailing things. It stresses me out. My kids don't wanna be in a picture that we send to a bunch of people that they don't know. And yeah. So let's recalibrate. Let's make it back and, you know, and then ask like, because honestly, when you say all that, all those potential things, I think most families, especially children, would really [00:11:00] probably enjoy the sitting down and talking it through more than any of those other things, if they're gonna be honest.

I mean, it's not sexy, it's not as sexy, it's not as like, you know, stimulating. But in the long run, they're gonna remember. How good it felt to sit down and like have a family meeting and for their voice to be heard and taken into account. And that is, you know, as a psychotherapist, like that is what matters in the long run.

Those are the real memories and they're free and you could do 'em right in your house. Right. And you know, it was so hard before we realized that certain family members. We're, you know, we're on the spectrum, highly sensitive, and it just seemed like, why can't you just do, why can't you just stay with us for the midnight mass and color your book and whatnot?

But it made us have those conversations [00:12:00] and so. But warning, if you've never had those conversations with your family, I will tell you, you also have to be open to some criticism.

Yeah. Maybe we should talk about that next. Yeah. And so maybe setting some guidelines and talking about how maybe helping your family express Yeah. How they feel about, you know. Certain family gatherings and situations. Yeah. Talk about that. Oh yeah. You just got my mind really going here. Yeah. So I will say, you know, yeah, especially from your kids, you're gonna hear some harsh criticism when you open that door.

They're gonna come right through it. Um, and that is hard. You know, my daughters is 21, she lives at home right now. She's in college. And, you know, I'll, I'll tell her like, Edie, I really. I really wanna hear your [00:13:00] feedback, but when you say it that way, it just shuts me down and I can't listen. It's, it's too much.

Um, but I wanna hear the heart of what you're saying, so can you rephrase that in a way that's easier for me to hear? And, and she gets that. Um, we all get that. So, yeah. So that's one thing we can just like, lead with, you know, with our kids. Um, and then really just to be curious. Mm-hmm. They're, yeah. Giving us that feedback.

Like let's say they say something that's, it's harsh to hear. Maybe they say, you know, mom, I hate how we do Christmas. Like that's like a big global statement, right? And you're like, oh. But then if we could stay with that and be like, okay, because that's how a 10-year-old says things to their parent. Like, that's normal, but let's go deeper.

Let's go. What do they hate about it? Mm-hmm. So I'll say. Tell me what you hate most when you say that. Like what specifically do you hate the most? Mm-hmm. And then [00:14:00] maybe what they're saying is, you know, I hate the midnight mass because you know, blah, blah, blah. And you're like, oh, so it's really the midnight mass.

And then what do you hate most about that? And maybe they don't hate the whole thing. Maybe there's a certain part that like. Can be, you know, accommodated. Mm-hmm. So just stay with it, get to the meat, get to the heart of their complaints. So stay curious, but you can also help your kid too, just like, you know, can you say that in a way?

Like you can help them, because that's good for them to have empathy for you, and you can also model that empathy for them. Mm-hmm. You can say, so, you know what's hard? Hard for me? Mm-hmm. And, you know, they're just hearing us, you know, say that in a kinder way, right? Yeah. I think that that's so important, and we are really big about empowering and giving our children permission if a situation is uncomfortable for them or they feel [00:15:00] overstimulated or they've just had enough, like we, you know, we're, we're all capable of that.

We don't have an unlimited capacity at any. For anything. Um, but we give, we talk about strategies. If there is a situation that we, you know, and an activity we wanna do that maybe part of it, like you mentioned, like it's too long or it's too late or it's too loud or whatnot. Talking about like, okay, I am totally fine.

If at some point you just excuse yourself and go upstairs. Yeah. And as parents saying, um. You know, defending that and, and you know, saying, oh yeah, so and so, you know, is tired. So they're, you know, they don't have to sit around with the adults or. Um, do everything, but also, like, sometimes food is an issue too.

Mm. So preparing that, [00:16:00] like what they really like. 'cause you know, in our experience, different family members don't like the same things. And, and that becomes a whole issue. What do you mean so and so doesn't like blah blah, blah that I've made for 30 years and, you know, whatever. And, um, so yeah, that too.

But you know, as we alluded to, when you're having these conversations and you open up that door, sometimes some angry feelings can come up. Right. And you know what if, and again, that is hard, but if we could see that, so as a therapist, you know, my clients will, will feel angry with me. And it's not easy.

I'm looking at them just like I look at you. It's in real time. Yeah. And I have to take a deep breath and I have to say. Find out why, like show curiosity, what is it? Right. And also this is a blessing in disguise because in if, if [00:17:00] someone feels comfortable enough to express their frustration, their anger, that is so much healthier than letting it, you know, go under where it just builds up this resentment.

That is not good for them. That is not good for you. It's not good for anyone. So, you know, and our kids can help us just do that better for ourselves, for others, you know? And so when we, I think as parents, when we show them that their feelings matter, kids learn that they matter. Those two things are one and the same.

Hmm. Especially when we can even, even validate their anger with us. That's when they really know that they matter. And a kid that knows inherently that they matter is going to grow up to be an adult who is, has the ego strength [00:18:00] to walk away from the abusive partner to quit the abusive job. Mm-hmm. That's what we're giving them when we teach them that they matter, especially by listening and validating their, their anger at us.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that that's really at the heart of this conversation. And what's so beautiful about it, we're disguising it as, oh, how can we manage the holidays better for us? And when we're parents and we're building businesses and we're doing all the things. But honestly, when we get better control of how our lives live, uh, we live them and what our triggers are, we're helping to equip and empower our children to do the same.

Yep. So, and to recalibrate. 'cause if we're recalibrating how we do the holidays, it models for them. Like, you know what? Nothing's written in stone. We can like change things as we go [00:19:00] along. Humans, you know what we do? We make mistakes and we learn from them. And that's what makes us human. And that's a good thing.

Right? And if we, if we can't do that, that's, that's just setting a really unfortunate precedent for our children. Right? And, and sometimes you can do things when children are younger and the family dynamics are different and. You know, that just aren't the same or aren't as enjoyable as kids get older.

And you have to be open to considering that and changing that. And I, I know some people who just have a death grip on like, we have to do this. We, I don't know if they would listen to this podcast 'cause my listeners seem to be so growth. Um, minded. Yeah. But, but if there's a part of you holding on to something so dear, like, this year is one of the first [00:20:00] years, um, that my daughter's not in the Nutcracker and she just said, mom, I need a break.

Hmm. That was really hard for me because I know she's a talented dancer. And, but I had to deal with that myself. You know? I had to take care of that, my expectations, my dreams for her. Yeah. That's not my life to live and I'm here to support her. Thank you for giving that illustration, Angela. That is, that is such a beautiful example of what is so true that you know, if we are, the truth is.

As parents, we will be disappointed by our children, by their choices, by their behaviors, by their attitudes, by our relationship with them, and the quality of it. We're gonna, they're gonna disappoint the hell out of us. And guess what? Guess what? That is their job description. It. [00:21:00] Job description, yeah. Is to disappoint the hell outta their parents and be true to themselves and the parents' job description.

Is to know, oh, this disappointment, this is my disappointment. It's not theirs. These are my feelings and only I am responsible for them, not my child. So you just like gave a perfect example of that. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it is super tough, um, because it's like a, a, a tradition this time of year. It's just part of our life.

But you know what, oh my gosh, the free time that I have this year that driving her to dance practices and de managing her stress and going to get her food, and as much as I love her being part of that experience. She seeing her happiness and her relaxed. Mm-hmm. You know, and we can reflect on that [00:22:00] time.

She wants to go back to it. She can. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, there are so many things like that you just have to manage as a parent and, and just, you know, having a borderline mother, I. I couldn't wear the dress I wanted to, to my eighth grade graduation. I couldn't, you know, I had so many comments at my wedding from my mother and my father-in-law and you know, it's, and I swore I would never do that to my children.

Yeah. So, so, yeah, I mean, if you are feeling like that you're listening to this and there's just something you're holding onto so much that quote unquote makes your holiday, um, and you have to change and adapt some version of it, maybe, maybe take a trip to New York City and go see the Nutcracker or something.

You know, do some, find something that you know will, will fill [00:23:00] you. In a different way, you know, find a new tradition. So, so, yeah. And that, that new tradition might be sitting around and asking that kid, like, tell me more. Help me understand how you came to make this decision and right. And get to know you, because that's what the real gift is, us getting to know our children.

That is the gift we can give you. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I'm, I'm able to spend so much time with her this year and getting to know her and her middle school years and, you know, what's going on with her friends and her life and, you know, that I might not have, previously all of our discussions were about how tired she was and how stressed she was and, you know, all of that.

So it's definitely different. Um. Yeah, so let's talk about when that anger comes up and, and [00:24:00] how it's a messenger and how we, we we're taught to honestly just stuff our feelings, I think in society in the us I have lots of listeners all over the world, but we really are taught, I think, not to feel. Um, and a lot of us were brought up by parents who were like, stop crying, just Yep.

You know, what's your problem? Just, you know, do the thing, make me feel better, kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. Let's, let's unpack that because Yeah. You know, so we've all heard that, you know, the old school, stop trying, crying or I'll give you something to cry about, right? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. So sad. Um. Where that, what that really comes from is, you know, kid, when you're crying, I see you as a reflection of me failing and I can't handle that.

Right? I need you to be happy to reflect [00:25:00] how good I am. Right? That, that comes from a place of deep insecurity where we. See our children as mirrors of us, and that's a really faulty paradigm because really it's our job as parents to be mirrors for our children, not vice versa. It is never their job to reflect our worth back to us.

It is always our job to reflect their worth back to them by listening, by feeling, helping them feel seen, not by saying, oh my God, you're so amazing. No, just listening and being like, wow. That's crazy. Tell me more. Showing that we care, right? So, um, yeah, as we can find our worth, our value, not in our children, but really in ourselves, we're gonna have to be the one who gives that to ourselves.

And, um, at the end of the day, we have to be our own mirror that reflects back our own worth and dignity to [00:26:00] us. No, we can't outsource that to a partner. To a child, to anyone, we can't. We have to do that for ourselves. Yeah.

Until that light bulb goes off, you're gonna continue to, I think, try to be some other expectation or version that somebody else wants you to be or live a life that somebody else has kind of handed you or you've assumed, um. So I think that that's so powerful. So part of that is kind of like, not kind of, but breaking a lot of the family patterns that have been demonstrated for us, especially at the holidays when, when there are a lot of family gatherings and things like that.

So can you give us some insight on how we can become aware of that and maybe some of the things that we can do to break. Yeah. [00:27:00] From those maladaptive ways of, you know, being part of a family. Yeah. So I will say when it comes to our own parents, you know, all humans, this is all kind of just implicit, uh, or unconscious, but all humans, we do look for our parents to give us their approval.

It's just how we're wired even into adulthood, like way into, I've had clients in their sixties. Tell me how they're still looking to their mother. I mean, they themselves are grandmothers and they're looking still to their mother to win their mother's approval. And I'm like, wow, this just never goes away.

Um, so we do tend to do that. We do tend to look to our parents to feel seen. That is their job, to make us feel seen. But most parents fail that, you know, and I'm not saying they're evil, um, but they just fail it. They're not good. They don't know how to make someone feel seen. They're not. You know, mature enough [00:28:00] themselves internally to do that consistently.

Um, so if we're gonna see our parents, for example, or a parent over the holidays, you know, I would start with like, okay, Bronwyn, I would just sit and talk to myself. I'd say, okay, Bronwyn, you're gonna see your dad and you're gonna wanna make his eyes light up when he sees you and you're gonna, you know, let's look at our patterns.

Let's look at our past history. We we're gonna like. You know, give him a hug and then we're gonna say, you know, listen to him and show a lot of interest in him. And usually that makes his face really happy. And then we feel good because we're winning his approval, his acceptance. Um, but, you know, he is a fickle, you know, source of approval really, because it waxes and wanes.

It's not consistent. So, you know what, Bronwyn, here's what I'm gonna do. I wanna be that. Consistent attachment figure for you. And [00:29:00] I want to help you feel seen by me. That's actually my job, and I'm not gonna outsource it to a parent or to a child or to anyone. I'm gonna do that now. I'm gonna be that trustworthy mirror that always gives you a true reflection of you.

And I see your goodness. I see the good, bad, and the ugly, but it's a net good that I see. Mm-hmm. Because your heart is good and that's all that matters to me is what's on the inside. And you will have my approval until the day you leave this earth. I will be your superfan sitting on the front row seat of your life, always cheering you on.

And I'm sorry I haven't done that. I'm sorry. I have neglected you. I'm sorry that I've allowed you to feel so alone and desperate to feel seen, but I'm here now and I'm here to win back your trust in me. And now [00:30:00] that you have me, you are free to disappoint the hell out of everyone else in order to be true to yourself.

I love that. And if you're in a situation where you have one of those. Family members or friends who, um, they're app, you feel the need to have their approval, replay this section as if you're talking to yourself. You've got a script Yes. To begin to be your own super fan. I love that. That's. That's just, and I know if anybody listening who grew up with parents like ours, that concept of being your own fan is you.

You live for that approval of that parent so much. Yeah. Um, that the [00:31:00] concept of being your own fan is non-existent. Mm-hmm. So I love that you gave us permission to, to be a fan of ourselves because that, that idea, I think for many people is non-existent. Like they haven't even considered that, um, or know the power of that.

So I love that you can absolutely survive and thrive as your own super fan. You know what? I left something out too. So I do these, I call 'em integration exercises. Mm-hmm. And I do them with all my clients. Um, but I do 'em on my podcast for listeners to repeat and do for themselves. And a really important component that I didn't include is, you know, so I'm, I'll add this.

So I'll say, you know, Bronwyn, I know you feel a lot of shame because you're not seen consistently by our parents. [00:32:00] That creates a lot of shame for a child because a child doesn't have objectivity to say, oh, my parent is borderline, or My parent's depressed, or whatever. A child always concludes, I'm not enough.

That's why I'm not seen. Right? And so let's take all that shame that we feel and put it in a big cardboard box, maybe two, and return those to our parents and say, here you go, mom. Here you go, dad. This is actually your shame, not mine because you not seeing me and giving me that consistent love is not a reflection of me being deficient.

It's actually a reflection of your deficiency. Yeah, that's an important point. Um, yeah, it really is. Um, so. Let's talk about, I mean, I think that that is one way that we [00:33:00] can begin to rewrite the story that we tell ourselves, um, when, when we've grown up with parents like that. And, um, we're trying to live up to these expectations that just.

Are never gonna be fulfilled. So what are, I don't know if you have any other tips for learning how to rewrite that story. Yeah, I have a really, a really good other one. So I'll give you an example. So about three years ago, um, was the last time I saw my father. And you know, he's in his eighties, I'm in my mid fifties.

Um, and we actually took him out to dinner for his birthday and. We're there and he's basically throwing a tantrum. Um, 'cause something didn't go his way. And this was the first time in my life, so I was 51, but it was the first time I actually became a complete adult because in that moment when he starts [00:34:00] throwing his temper tantrum, I see my husband like fawning over over him.

And that's what I used to do too. And in that moment I'm like, oh hell no. Those are Mike's feelings, and only Mike is responsible for his feelings. Mike has conditioned me my whole life to believe I'm responsible for his feelings, but I'm not. I'm responsible to him, but I'm never responsible for him. I am responsible for my feelings.

So you know what? I'm feeling frustrated, and so I'm gonna go and do this right now and let Mike. Be responsible for his feelings because they belong to him alone. And when I said that to myself, it was so liberating. It was like I fully embodied my adult 51-year-old body in that moment. And it was like I kind of reclaimed this dignity, you know?

Mm-hmm. And since then, it's just come so naturally [00:35:00] with everyone else. Mm. 'cause I think I did it with the original person who taught me. I'm responsible for his feelings, so, so that's another thing. We need to live within these universal truths. They're invisible. They're just like the love of gravity. But we have to live within it because it creates order.

And if we don't, we're gonna create a lot of chaos. Mm-hmm. And it's probably also, I think it really goes hand in hand from my experience, at the same time, to be aware that we need to stop living this fantasy that they're gonna change. Yeah. Uh, because that, that's a dream world that we like to live in.

Mm-hmm. Um, so yeah. Can you talk about that and, and how empowering it is to come to that? Yeah. You can start living your life once you come to that realization. [00:36:00] Yeah. So it took me, you know, until I was 51 to come to that realization. So I had insomnia for 30 years. Um, it was really, really bad and it wasn't until around 51 that I started seeing the truth about how, you know, abusive my dad actually is.

Hmm. Um, we always, usually most humans are okay with like throwing one pa parent under the bus 'cause we know they're bad. But then we always wanna see the other parent as good. And that's definitely what I did where I knew my mom was super toxic. But I wouldn't let myself see the truth because then if we see them both as how they are, we feel too alone.

We feel like an orphan and I couldn't go there. Right? . So as I integrated, as I did those exercises where I gave myself my approval mm-hmm. I gave myself that validation, um, and started trusting myself and dislodging all the [00:37:00] shame. I had this strength, the Constitution, to finally see the truth about my dad.

Not just my mom, but my dad, right? And when I started feeling that anger, holding him accountable with the anger, I'd write him emails and I would document actual things he had said and done, starting at age 10 and, um. I had to document for myself before I sent him any emails because my brain couldn't hold too many of those memories at once.

I think it was too painful. So I just made a Google Doc and I just documented, and while I would sometimes sit and read 'em all at once and just be like, oh my God, why am I still in relationship with this person? But my brain would never entertain those memories all at once. So when I consolidated them, when I made myself read through them, I was like.

Girl, you gotta break up with your abusive boyfriend because that's who he is, right? Yeah. So I started sending him emails and just being like, yeah, these are the things you've [00:38:00] done. And unless I hear an apology and an admission and a commitment that you're going to be become a safe person, like we're not gonna have a relationship.

And he, you know, never took me up on that. But it takes time. It takes us integrating with ourselves. In order to give up hope, false hope on that parent being who we need or want them to be. And it took me that long, but the minute I started holding him accountable, I started sleeping like a baby. So for the last three years now, I mean, I take naps now, which I could never do.

I'm off all the medications. I have no sleep issues. So. You know, that's, that's what happens when we start being true to ourselves is we heal our bodies, heal as well as our psyches. Yeah. And it seems like so simple. It's right there. Yeah. You know, just, uh, coming to [00:39:00] terms with what are emotions are telling us, like how we're feeling in the moment and we just.

Suppress it. And I think that that's such a powerful exercise. 'cause I know people in my life who have a hard time holding people accountable who are not good to them because I think they can't process all of those things in the moment and they just look over it for some reason. Mm-hmm. Um, so I think that that's a really powerful exercise.

But I think too, it's important to probably, there's probably people listening who are thinking about whether should they engage with certain people in their life that don't treat them well or don't meet, make them feel well on the consistent basis. So what helps you determine, and how do you handle saying no?

Seeing that person because that's a really powerful, we've had to come [00:40:00] to that point, and it's a difficult conversation to have with somebody who doesn't think logically and who's constantly trying to manipulate you. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I think we can just start by paying attention to our body. How do I feel when I'm with this person?

How do I feel before I'm with them? How do I feel after? You know, if we just pay attention to that and say, you know what, body, I'm sorry that I keep betraying you, that I'm not paying attention to, that I'm not doing right by you. No wonder you keep getting headaches. You're trying to tell me to stay away from this person.

I'm gonna start listening to you. I am gonna prioritize you, Bodi. Over this person because you're my priority. I'm not responsible for this person. I am responsible for you. And I choose starting right now to first attune to you. Yeah. [00:41:00] Yeah. And, and that sounds easy, but somebody who has been through a lifetime of somebody, uh, manipulating them and on their walking on eggshells, you become really disconnected with your body.

Desensitized. Yeah. Yeah. I, I was, it's been, you know, for somebody who was probably in a functional free state for most of their life mm-hmm. And to go, oh, this is what emotions feel like. This is what, this is what, um, you know. Okay. I am feeling stressed because of this. Instead of just constantly feeling numb or stressed out or like you're not enough on a constant basis, you know that that can be something.

You literally have to purposely check in with yourself. Absolutely. Yeah. So I think that's really powerful. [00:42:00] So do you maybe have a suggested script. That somebody could use if they're in the situation where they feel like they should no longer engage with somebody, a friend or a family member that in a loving, respectful way, communicates how they feel and that they're not going to be partaking in any activities with them.

Yeah, I don't have a script, um, for that necessarily. I think I would start with. You know, maybe the script would start with addressing them, you know, head on and just saying like, Angela, you know, I really enjoy your company, but you know, sometimes I feel like you just expect me to listen and you're not interested in listening to me.

And if that person is responsive, like in a good way, you know? [00:43:00] Serendipity. Let's, let's celebrate. 'cause that's May, that is someone who is a safe person who's willing to hear us. Mm-hmm. But if they're not willing to hear us, if they're going to, you know, make themself the innocent victim, and now you're the perpetrator, oh, well, you know, I'm not perfect and you always blah, blah, blah.

Like, if they're gonna do that, we have our answer right there, I think. Mm-hmm. You know, for me, that's really what it comes down to. I don't expect people to be perfect. Mm-hmm. I hope. Mm-hmm. People in my life push back on me and say, you know what, Bronwyn, you know, this is something I would, you know, my daughter certainly does, and I appreciate that.

I'm learning so much about me through her. Um, which is not fun, but it's good. Um, but yeah, so, so if we can push back and if that person responds, well then, you know, that is someone who is a safe person. And if they don't, you have all that you need. They're not a safe [00:44:00] person. That's it. Game over. Yeah, and I think we'd both give anybody listening to this right now who's feeling like, I think if you feel like you need to set a stronger boundary with somebody, that's your answer.

Right. And it's so hard for somebody who's in the, in the thick of it, in that messy time of kind of trying to figure out their feelings, apart from the manipulation, what they should do. Um, but we would definitely both give you permission to set that boundary that feels right for you and keep setting it, you know, until you get it where it needs to be, you know?

Um. So I think that that's really powerful. Um, because yeah, if you've grown up with parents like ours, you have no boundaries. You don't even, like, I didn't know what that word was until a few years ago. I was like, what? What's a boundary? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:45:00] So, um, we've talked about so much. We've talked about our triggers and communicating and how to communicate and how we should.

Perceive our anger and not try to stuff it, but listen to what it's telling us. We've talked about, you know, rewriting that story of not feeling good enough and, um, setting your own expectations. I as a tall order, it's so important. But I have looked forward to, I've thought about having a conversation like this with somebody for my listeners for years.

I'm not even kidding. Wow. So when we were able to connect, because it used to be such a triggering time for me. Yeah. It was really difficult in managing, being a mother, my own emotions, my business, it's such a busy time of year, black [00:46:00] Friday. Expectations. What do I offer? What do I do? How do I communicate it?

I mean, we are juggling so much. So how can we carry this new sense of integration? Into the new year, uh, you know, surviving the holidays, how can we look to the new year and, um, carry that new sense of self-trust with us. Yeah. You know, just one day at a time and you know, like we have covered a lot and I know it could feel really overwhelming for someone who isn't.

You know, I think I take for granted, I have these conversations every day, all day. But you know, for other people they're like, what? Um, so yeah, just, just saying, you know what, life is one gigantic learning curve and it never ends. And that is a good thing, and that's a beautiful thing. And we learn from our mistakes, you know?

Right. When something doesn't work, we [00:47:00] learn so much. So there's no failure. There's just mistakes and that's a success when we learn as we go. So let's just keep learning. Right? Yeah. I think just, just having that, um, awareness and, and like you said, that curiosity. Yeah, that, why am I feeling like this?

Mm-hmm. Why? Why is everybody upset right now? Why are my children really antsy? Why are they, why are they crying? And please stop apologizing for your children. Please stop. I hate it so much. They're children and like you said, they're not a representation of our worth. Not at all. You know, if you give up one thing this holiday season, give up that, yes, they're kids.

But, um, for, for moms [00:48:00] listening who are feeling overwhelmed trying to, um, hopefully with this podcast, arming themselves with some tools and some resources to take them into the holiday with more calm Yeah. Feeling more empowered, um, because the inner work, you know. It shows in our businesses, in our life.

What would you tell them? Woo. Yeah, so I like to just say, so I have a, a tree in my backyard that's a hundred feet tall and that is a flourishing tree. And a human who flourishes is just like a beautiful flourishing tree. They create beauty and habitat. Refuge and shade for thousands of creatures and even other humans.

And so when we start to be true to ourselves, we flourish. And that [00:49:00] is by no means a selfish act because just like a tree, it creates a whole better world as a result. Yeah, no, that's, that's a powerful statement. And it's so true. We're. Constantly trying to take care of everybody else's needs. And we put ours on the back burner if we get to it at all.

Um, so make sure you're putting some time in for yourself, listening to this podcast on repeat, whatever you need to do, um, in a little whatever time you can carve for yourself this holiday and into the New Year. Thank you for being with us Bronwyn. It's been a powerful conversation, like you said.

We packed a lot into this, but I think it's so important, and I know there are listeners that needed to hear what we talked about today, where can they connect with you and learn more? Yeah. So my podcast is angry at the right things and yeah, feel free to do the [00:50:00] integration exercise specifically that I alluded to.

Um, I think I did that two podcast episodes ago. So, um, yeah, those are on there. And then I talk about everything that we brought up, but like in deeper detail. Yeah, you do. I've found it so helpful. I recommend it all the time. Thank you. I do. I I seriously do, I'm not even kidding. I mean, uh, family members, it's just, it's, it's a powerful resource and I think that you have a really unique way to, you know, it's tough to hear.

The truth. Um, and you have a way of just telling it like it is. Um, and so sometimes the, the truth is hard to hear, but it, I think it can definitely get you on the healing path that you need to be on. So yeah, thanks for that. The truth does set you free, [00:51:00] but yes, it's not, it does, it does necessarily easy to hear.

Yeah. All right. I appreciate you. Thank you so much for being a guest. Thank you, Angela. Thank you for having me again. Oh yeah, absolutely. Anytime Bronwyn. Thanks. Okay, Uhhuh. Bye.