Friends from Wild Places

Breaking Barriers in Mortuary Education

• Shireen Botha/Tanya Scotece ft Kari Northey • Season 3 • Episode 20

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Have you ever wondered what it takes to create engaging and educational content within the funeral industry?

This episode of Friends from Wild Places explores the nuanced world of funeral-related content creation on YouTube. From the thrill of self-funded travel to the excitement of producing everything from quick educational clips to live Q&A sessions, we cover it all. We also dive into our fun rewatch series of "Six Feet Under," where we break down the realism of funeral practices portrayed in the show. Collaboration and community play a significant role in our discussions, especially with valuable contributions from my knowledgeable boyfriend. Plus, we talk about our experimental paranormal channel, reminding us all of the importance of keeping the creative process enjoyable.

Kari Northey


We also tackle the sensitive and complex subjects of embalming pregnant women and the phenomenon known as coffin birth. With insights from Tanya, a former funeral director, we discuss the emotional and technical challenges that professionals encounter in these delicate situations. The discussion highlights the lack of standardized procedures and the impact of public curiosity, often fueled by high-profile news stories. Moreover, we emphasize the crucial lesson of maintaining professionalism and empathy, even when faced with personal hardships.

Join us as we support Patriot Guard this month!

Tune in next week for part three of Friends from Wild Places, where we continue to explore the untamed and often misunderstood facets of the funeral industry.

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Tales from the wild, stories from the heart. A journey into the mind and fired-up of business professionals, where they share their vision for the future and hear from a different non-profit organization every month as they create awareness of their goals and their needs. Dive into a world of untamed passion as we join our host, S hireen Both Guerta, for this month's episode of Friends from Wild Places.

Tanya Scotece:

And how many YouTubes? Is it like a set amount that you put out, for example, like either per week or per month or per year, or is it just random? What's your?

Kari Northey:

it's a bit random. I used to do far more because I would do a little traveling and stuff, but then again I'm I'm paying to go to these places, nobody's paying me to travel, and so it got to the point where I'm like, well, I'm not making enough from YouTube to pay for what I'm putting out in some of these. So I have to be a little more logical with the content I'm doing and I do a two minute every Tuesday and that is just to try to give a really quick explanation to a term, a phrase, something historic, something we use at the funeral. It's all over the place different terms that I do, so there's always a two minute. I tried for a while I was doing a live video every week, my coffee with Kari, and then life got busy and I got away from that. I'm trying to get back to that again because I do find that it brings in a different viewership with new questions, which is always fun. I love when there's questions I never even could have imagined someone asking, because there's nothing off the table, I will literally answer anything. For the most part, I don't think I've ever found anything I won't answer yet. So I do those. Right now we have a six feet under exhumed rewatcher series that we're doing. So me and another funeral director of faith are watching six feet under series and doing an episode, a rewatcher episode talking about the episode, the drama of it, but then talking about the funeral side of it and the legitimacy of the embalming in the bodies and what is going on within the business, and talking about that part of it. And that's been fun to do. Not as many people are watching those videos, but they're fun for us to do. So that's kind of nice.

Kari Northey:

And my boyfriend is in a lot of videos. People ask about him a lot, which has kind of been fun too. He works at a national cemetery here and he had a guy come up to him at the cemetery and said, oh my gosh, you're Josh the vault guy and he's like what is going on right now. But people watch and people feel like they know me and now they feel like they know him because we've been dating three years now and he's been in a lot of videos and he's super knowledgeable about burial vaults and cremation because he was a burial vault installer for 27 years and he was a crematory operator and he works at the national cemetery now. So he's done all these areas that I did haven't done, and so between us talking, we can answer so many more questions.

Kari Northey:

So it's just been kind of fun. So we kind of I don't know we try and keep it fun in that way and we started an offshoot channel which we hasn't posted in a while, doing more like paranormal and stuff, things that I don't want to get into on my channel, yeah, and so yeah, we try and I don't know mix it up and keep it fun for us, because if it's not fun for us to do social media and things, then it's not worth it, because it's work. It is a lot of work trying to post daily and trying to keep up with all.

Tanya Scotece:

Oh my gosh it's a lot of work and tell us about the going into the mortuary school as far as um. So what do you um? How long have you been doing that? Or how does? How did that transition?

Kari Northey:

To teaching. So I started last I want to say last spring, so spring of 2023, maybe was my first class. I've kind of wanted to do teaching and people are like you should be a teacher, you should be a teacher, and I'm like it's not just that simple guys. So I finally I was always watching indeedcom for openings and finally submitted to one and they're an only online. It's fine mortuary college in Boston. They only are online. Now they found students didn't want to come back to school after COVID so they went fully online. So I teach one class. It's a live four hour lecture once a week. Last semester I did twice a week and that about killed me. Once a week. Last semester I did twice a week and that about killed me. So we're back to once a week this semester and it's fun. It's fun to interact with the students.

Kari Northey:

Right now mortuary school is 85% female, if not more. If I have one male in my class, I'm like surprised I've had all female classes. So it's. It is very interesting the change in dynamic of mortuary schools. It's also first generations a lot of students who have never worked in a funeral home, been around a funeral home, just have a desire to go into the business where back when I was in school it was funeral director kids mostly.

Kari Northey:

I was kind of the oddball out where I hadn't my parents weren't in the funeral business and I didn't grow.

Kari Northey:

I mean, I kind of grew up in it but I didn't have a funeral home. I was specifically going home to where now that is not the norm there's maybe one or two in a whole class that that is the situation. So it's very different. It's creating a very hard space where you have young female, never worked in the business, going in working with men who are 50, 60, who have been around the business their whole lives, trying to work together and sometimes it works well, but not always and it's very hard. And it's also that older generation because they came from kids growing up working in the funeral homes and having knowledge before going to mortuary school are expecting kids to come out with much more experience than they they are, because once they graduate then they're going to work at a funeral home and they've never touched anything in a funeral home, almost. So it's. It's a really hard position right now. It's going to take about five, 10 years, I think, for that to iron itself out, because it is a bit tumultuous, to say the least.

Tanya Scotece:

So the school that you're teaching at is in Boston. Is that correct? It's in Boston, it's based in Boston. Yeah, and so I just it's all remote, so Students are they local to Boston or where are they zooming in from?

Kari Northey:

I would say most of them are East Coast A lot of New Hampshire, massachusetts, new Jersey, new York, maine, delaware, that area. But I've also had Oregon, new Mexico, texas. Where else did I have Washington State? So I've had all over the country, but mostly East Coast just because it's based there. I think it's easier for time zone and everything for students for that.

Tanya Scotece:

What would you say? The biggest you know? Maybe like mystery or like you know, just a curiosity, maybe is a better word for the students like that are sitting in your class. As far as like what may think the field is to what you know, it is like what? How does that space you know? How do you translate that into the students?

Kari Northey:

yeah, I think that a lot of them are very interested in making a difference, helping people. I'm a people person and want to help people and make the worm fuzzy and that's great. But a lot of what we do is not that. It's you know business stuff and logistics and wiping poop off dead bodies because they poop you know kind of thing. Like there's a not warm and fuzzy side to what we do and I don't think they quite understand all of that yet. Some of them are super interested in the body and what the body does and all of that side of it.

Kari Northey:

But when you're doing that every day it's not as exciting as I think they're anticipating from movies and everything. So I think there's some of the letdown of how exciting it might be from the outside thinking it is and then what that schedule really truly looks like for some people. You know you can work at a place where you do you work eight to five and you don't go out at night and you only involve during the day and you meet folks during the day and you don't work visitation. But then you might work at places where you do all of that and you are working. You know you're up for over 24 hours and you're exhausted and everything. So it's it depends where you work and your work-life balance that they want to create for you, and I think some of the students aren't prepared for that, unfortunately, and it's not a dig at the whole generation, but you know you have this. Well, I'm having a hard day and I have a lot of life challenges right now and I have this going on so I can't turn this in on time. I'm like that doesn't work in the real world. And I try and make it applicable to the funeral business. If I send an obituary in one minute late, it's not getting in the paper and then I am paying for it to run again because the family's going to be pissed. That doesn't work. So when they're like, oh, I couldn't get in on time, I don't know what to tell you guys, but this isn't how it works in the real world. Well, I had to do this, I had to do that. You should have done that the day before and then it would have been done for whatever came up the next day.

Kari Northey:

So it's trying to get them to plan ahead, trying to get them to understand professionalism and showing up when you're supposed to show up and being responsible. It's just some days. It's a struggle. And that's what I think has shocked me more is how hard it is to get them to show up for what they're committing to. I'm like I say to them often you're adults, you're paying to be here, like you're paying to be in this class. No one told you you had to be here. You're not here because it was mandated. You're paying to be here. Why do you not want to show up for yourself? No-transcript. Do we fix that? How do we support that and get them to want that for themselves and stuff? And it's a challenge. I just don't know the. I don't know the answer, obviously, but it's. It is a challenge for sure.

Shireen Botha:

That's a that's so interesting. And coming back to what you actually do, you know, for me this is very interesting. I don't know much about what you ladies do, and so my biggest thing is I don't like death in general. Just because, as child, any funeral that I went to was scary for me, because I couldn't understand that, you know well, my little brain was like there's a dead body in that, you know casket right now, you know, and that scared me as a little girl and as growing up it didn't. It wasn't as much scary as it was spooky, you know, and very heartbreaking. You know, many times I'd be going to a funeral for a loved one, so it was mixed with just complete sorrow but also like why am I here?

Shireen Botha:

this is so creepy you know, but if I can ask you before I go because I have another question as well but if I could ask you where are you? So where in the process does the coroner come in? Is that? I mean, are you? Are you? What is a coroner? And where does it separate in the process of once the person's died and the body gets removed? Where does the coroner come into that?

Kari Northey:

So in Michigan they don't. There is no coroner. In Michigan Coroner is an elected official. In some states In Michigan we do not have coroners. They could be like your local florist, who is the elected coroner and they are the ones who determine if a body has to go to the medical examiner for an autopsy or not. So, like in Michigan, we have medical examiners. Only they have medical examiner investigators that go out to the site if needed. So if a death is under 24 hours at the hospital, they will determine if they need to get involved. If it is an unattended death, so there's no hospice or they're not in a medical facility or a nursing home, then they're called in to investigate whether they need to do anything or not. So they'll go in, they'll look at medications, they'll look at medical history and they'll determine if they need an autopsy.

Kari Northey:

Everyone with us that is a suicide does not always get an autopsy. It depends on the county, it depends on determination. Everyone in a car accident doesn't always get an autopsy, so it's kind of hit or miss. Typically in the county that I work in the most everyone under the age of 18 gets autopsied. If it is not a natural death it goes to the fetal death board or the review board and they look at all the autopsy and they, you know, make determinations and they kind of look at it in that way.

Kari Northey:

So there's not always a corner and we're a medical examiner and a lot of people at it in that way. So there's not always a corner and we're a medical examiner and a lot of people think embalmers are taking people apart, when really we are putting them back together. So after the autopsy we put them all back together but we don't remove any organs. We don't remove anything from the person aside from fluids and sometimes particles of internal organs with aspirating. So we are just putting people back together, which I think is a huge misconception. I get that question like, well, why do you take the body parts out? I'm like, well, actually I don't take anything out.

Kari Northey:

I put them all back in and make them whole again, as whole as I can. So it's I think it's just um misuse of terms is what I like to say, because coroner sounds super great for TV and so it's overused and in the wrong way often. Or if they use it, it's like small town crime. All I can think is like NCIS episodes, where there's a crime in a small town and you get the local coroner, who's like a you know, joe schmoe kind of guy, and it's like this whole character that they bring in, because he's the coroner and he's not really a medical examiner kind of thing. Um, why he's got to talk like that, I don't know. But, um, that's, that's what they do. It's, you know, kind of southern coroner sort of thing. I guess they throw in there, but I love it.

Shireen Botha:

Well see, this is why I like this, because you have someone that has no clue that's going to ask you the most stupidest questions in one corner of this podcast. And then you have, you know, tanya, who's been a funeral director herself, and this is her wheelhouse. Tanya, who's been a funeral director herself, and this is her wheelhouse. So you know there's two perspectives here and questions coming from two different angles, which is so clever and so good, and that's why I'm loving this and this, the series that we're doing. So, yeah, one of the things that you had on your, your youtube channel sorry, I did go have a look. I hope you don't mind, no, please. Yeah, there was a specific video of embalming a pregnant woman and coffin birth. Yeah, I mean, can you just tell us the story behind that, like, what did you have to? What all was entailed in that?

Kari Northey:

So coffin birth and embalming a pregnant woman very different. So coffin birth is not really something that happens now, right, tanya, like it's. This is not something in modern world that we really see, unless it is a crime situation like this. People say like Lacey, oh, what's her last name? Peterson, thank you. They say Lacey Peterson had a coffin birth because it is a pregnant woman who births the child after they have died, because the gases build up in the abdomen and they press and basically the child is expelled. What's her name? Shanna Shannon Watts. Oh, yes, one who and I'm saying her name wrong, I can't think of it, isn't it Shannon?

Shireen Botha:

What's Shannon?

Kari Northey:

Yes, it's not Shannon, but Shannon, she did have a coffin birth. She had. She was pregnant when she died and was killed and then had been exposed to the elements for a period of time and had birthed out the baby and that is technically a coffin. You're not in the coffin. But why they say that is because back in the day, before really embalming and things, if they put a pregnant woman in casket and then they maybe went back or in a coffin, they maybe went back and the baby was out, she had had a coffin birth. That's kind of where the term came from, but it's not really something we see now. Typically, if a pregnant woman dies and the baby dies with her, if she has an autopsy, the baby is removed. If she does not have an autopsy, the baby is embalmed with the woman and which is a terrible thing to have to do. But it does happen and so. But like I say in the video, because I had had people ask that question, it's weird how it comes in waves when I get questions and I will get the same question over and over and over and I'm like why are all of a sudden people asking? But then I realized it's the news. A lot of it comes from the news and when people started asking that a lot was when the Watts family story started happening and they're like, well, what do you do if someone's pregnant when they die? And I'm like huh. So I called seven different medical examiners offices just to ask the question and they said there is no answer. It's every situation is completely different. We may get a woman who has because I've had a woman who was pregnant and killed, took her own life and she was pregnant and they did no autopsy. I've had people who were pregnant and they removed the baby during the autopsy. So it's it's kind of hit or miss and that's kind of what they said is it's based on the situation and on the death whether we would take the baby out or not. But then they also said you know, when the woman comes in the care of the funeral home, if she has not been autopsied, the family can request that that baby be removed and embalmed and placed in with the mom or buried separately or whatever that situation might be. And so if the funeral home, you know, allows and goes with that request, then they can remove the baby.

Kari Northey:

I don't know that I want to do that Like I don't know that I am comfortable cutting into someone to try to remove. I'm not a an OBGYN Like that's not my vocation. I wouldn't know. I've had two C-sections but I wouldn't know exactly what to be doing without injuring the baby. So I don't even know if I would comply and be able to do that. But so the video, I did it just to try and respond to the question and it created more like you don't even know what you're talking about. I'm like there is no answer. I'm trying, I've tried to get an answer and there's none, because it's not a straightforward situation.

Kari Northey:

If a woman dies in a car accident, if a woman does that, you know like there's all these scenarios of you know what gestation is that child in at that time? Was she newly pregnant? Is she full term? Is she so? It was kind of all over the board. That's where that question came from.

Kari Northey:

And you know I've I've had both sides of it where I've had the baby taken out, I've had the baby in and it's just you know people are like, well, you can't really unbomb them. Well, you can and it sucks because there's a baby and you can feel on that abdomen where the baby is, but you have to aspirate around that area because that baby in that placenta is going to decompose so much more rapidly than anything else, and so we have to make sure that that baby area is treated. You can kind of avoid the baby by feeling when you're aspirating, but you want to puncture the placenta, you want to make sure you're getting fluid in and it sucks Like it's terrible. I remember we had a woman who was pregnant when she died while I was pregnant. I didn't embalm while I was pregnant, but I just remember talking to the embalmer that did it that day and I just could not. I cried the whole day Like I just could not stop because all I could think was I cannot imagine knowing there's a little baby in there, not being able to see it and having to still embalm and do what you have to do. And yes, they could choose to cremate, they don't have to embalm. You know it's not a law anywhere and so it's yeah, it's.

Kari Northey:

It's just a touchy subject, I think, and so it sets people off, kind of like my video I did about handling someone who's obese. I didn't know the can I was opening when I posted that video. I think that's probably my video in. When I posted that video I think that's probably my video I've gotten the most negative crap I don't know what else to on because it's a touchy subject and I'm guessing it's touchiest for people who are heavier. And that's what I just kept saying is I think a lot of these people who are commenting are people who are probably obese themselves and are not liking the thought that this may pose a challenge to someone beyond their death. And it was touchy. I still get comments on those videos. People still do not as much, but yeah, it's hard. It's hard to talk about things that people might get triggered by and you don't even realize they're going to trigger people, but they do.

Shireen Botha:

Yeah, that's interesting. And so back to your industry of being a director. What has been one of the biggest struggles on your journey as a director and how did you overcome it?

Kari Northey:

I think, aside from who you work with or work for, being a challenge, most of the time I'll come out of making a funeral arrangements with people and I'll be like I love them and I'm so excited and I the receptionists laugh at me because I do I just, oh, I fall in love with families and I love being with them and sharing stories and getting to know the person that's died and their family, but then there's ones that suck the life force out of you. I don't even know how else. They just challenge your patience, your energy, everything about you, by either coming in, questioning you and not trusting you from the get-go for no reason, or just wanting to overthink everything and you almost have to like tell them you've got to, you've got to step down, like you've got to step back. You've got to step down people who are wanting everything and don't have the funds for it and having to have that conversation. So there's a lot of, I think, challenging moments with families and that's never going to go away. It's almost getting worse, I think, now because we're dealing with generations as we go through who are more challenging generations to deal with, and so we are. You know, hey, this is your when you have to have clothing and oh, but I was busy so I'll bring it tomorrow. I'm like the viewing's tomorrow. Well, you know. And so it's the respect for us and our position is lacking and the understanding of what we do. And that part is challenging. And there are days I've had a couple of families where I've actually stepped. I've made reason that I'm like, oh, let me go check on that and I just step out of the room because I need a break and I will text the manager at the place I'm at filling in and say I think I'm quitting after this family, or I might quit right now, like I can't do it, like I can't do it because they're just a lot.

Kari Northey:

And it's grief obviously amplifies personalities in good or bad ways and when it amplifies a challenging personality it can be just beyond. And there's yeah, there's, there's some, some that have just been hard. There's one I'm going to tell one story specifically. It was a gentleman and he wasn't even the immediate family Like the. He wasn't the blood relative, he was like an in-law and everything was fine and then all of a sudden it wasn't and it was like what just happened? And he wanted things for free, that he didn't want to be like we are going to do this. And I'm like, well, you didn't want that and didn't pay for it, just pissed him right off and then he only wanted to speak to the male. I need a man in charge. Okay, let me put you on the phone with someone in charge who happens to be a female. Well, I need a man in charge. She's like you are talking to the top, so what do you? You know, like, what can I do?

Kari Northey:

So some of that like you can never get past that, which is not the norm by any means anymore. Most people are happy to be dealing with a female and like the change and they, like you, know that the industry has changed from just the male and the white you know the white shirt with the black tie and the black suit, and it is a little more I feel like it's softened with so many tie and the black suit, and it is a little more I feel like it's softened with so many females in the business now. So, thankfully, that's not the norm. But, yeah, people are challenging and unfortunately, or fortunately, we get to work with every walk of life, every denomination, every economic level, every race, religion, everything. I love that about the business.

Kari Northey:

But then you don't get to decide what personality is walking through the door and if you're having a bad day and you have to sit down with someone who's super challenging. That's hard. You know I was going through a divorce and you still have to show up a hundred percent. I was you know, I've had people die in my life still have to show up a hundred percent for who you're sitting across. That is a huge thing and I think, going back to the students, that's a huge lesson to learn is sorry you're having a bad day or sorry something's going on in your life, but you still have to show up a hundred percent for this business with the person that's across from you or in front of you that you're caring for. And not everybody can do that and everybody can't do that all the time and that's hard. I think that's really hard.

Shireen Botha:

Tune in next week for part three of Friends from Wild Places.

Voiceover:

You've been listening to Friends from Wild Places with Shireen Botha. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast from the links to catch every episode and unleash your passion.

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Shireen Botha

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Tanya Scotece

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