Kathleen Smith  00:00

Hello, this is Kathleen, and we’re having another special episode really focusing on recruiters. Behind the scenes in our podcast, we always ask our guests, what are the recruiting challenges that you experience, and how do you overcome those challenges? And what's interesting is, one of the challenges that was frequently referenced is culture fit. Rachel, it's so great to be with you here today. What do you have to say about culture fit?

Rachel Bozeman  00:52

No, I'm so excited to do this. When everyone was kind of mentioning this was a challenge, it was really starting with like, what does culture mean? I’ve had an opportunity to facilitate different culture trainings and talk to different folks, and everybody kind of puts a different spin on why it matters and what it means, but really, it's just that commonality of shared beliefs in standards and mission and why that's important. And really, it's a marriage between both the candidate’s needs and the business’s needs. But when we think about it from, especially the GovCon space, and really what that means, there are unique challenges – it’s that imagery of that nesting doll. A lot of times there’s a culture within a culture. And how do you make those all work? And I know you've spent the bulk of your career in the GovCon space, Kathleen. What do you think about that layer of layer of culture in the GovCon space?

Kathleen Smith  01:44

Yeah, it's amazing. There are many different layers. So the first is the company itself. So the company that the candidate is going to work with, they have their own culture. But then that company has won a contract award, and what is the agency that that candidate and that company are going to support? That agency has a very different kind of culture. And then sometimes within that agency, there are specific programs that the contract award is for, and that contract award or that program has a very specific kind of culture. And I try to explain it to a lot of people that sometimes you're working with a company and everyone wears sweaters, but then when they get into the program, all of the people there wear Argyle sweaters. And you may be a sweater kind of person, but you're not necessarily an Argyle kind of sweater person. So that's some of the differences in the government space. Rachel, I know you've talked about culture a lot. What do some of the people in our HR data world say?

Rachel Bozeman  02:53

It's just so important that we put the focus and the energy on the right things, and culture is one of the things that really matters. But there was a recent Gallup poll that talked about, when culture matters and when you do it right, there's some really good business outcomes. And I got excited. This is one that made me feel kind of renewed in making sure that we put the emphasis on the culture fit. When you look at the survey, really, what it focused on was just those positive outcomes. So almost four times more likely for an employee to just feel more engaged, to feel like they're making a difference and get things done while they're at work. And they're five times more likely to go out there and give a referral. And for all my recruiting friends out there, I know we love a good referral. So getting five times more referrals, I can't think of anything better than that. And 37% of them, they're not surviving, but thriving. So to have that much more energy about getting results and wanting to be there every day. And 68% of them feel far less burnout, but also retention of great talent. And when you get the culture fit right, 55% of those aren't thinking about going somewhere else. They're excited about where they're at. They're thriving, they're contributing, they're engaged. So really, just kind of summing all that up, culture matters. It matters to the productivity. It matters to the engagement. Your employees are flourishing, and your brand and reputation get that much-needed boost.

Kathleen Smith  04:33

And some other studies that we saw, one from SHRM, which was just recent, said that an organization that does not have a good culture fit, per employee, you are losing about 50 to 60% of that person's annual salary because they are not thriving. They are not feeling successful. They're not wanting to engage with other people. They're not willing to do the referrals. But what's even more important is that in the cleared community, we rely so much on transitioning veterans. We rely on bringing our servicemen and women into the government contracting space. And when you look at the Bureau of Labor Statistics, there are a lot of trends that we have seen over the years. One in particular is that nearly half of all veterans leave their first post-military position within one year. So if you think about all of that hiring time that you had in cultivating a veteran, you're going to end up losing them more than half the time if you have not engaged them really well within your culture. So when we look at culture fit, it really does matter, especially when we're talking about transitioning veterans and going through those steps in the beginning of engaging our transitioning veterans and making them understand how they're going to fit into the culture, and how you are going to decipher all of the changes for them. I remember one of the things that we talked about with transitioning veterans is explaining to them what casual Friday is. Explaining to them the hierarchy, explaining to them what are the steps for them to be successful. And one thing that’s always great in making sure you have a good culture fit with a transitioning veteran is to make sure that they can talk to other veterans who work for your company. So giving you a little hint as to some of the ways to succeed in your culture fit. Also, what's interesting is, I can't tell you how many times I've heard this over the years of working in the cleared space, but many recruiters spend a lot of time making sure that a candidate has all of the certifications, all of the experience, all of the computer languages they need. They go through all of the interviews with the company only to get to the point of meeting with a customer, and it's a no-go because there is no culture fit. So one of the things that I'm going to give you as a solution to this is using in-person events. I have seen this time and time again at our Cleared Job Fairs, where recruiters are able to say, ‘I met some great candidates. But not only were they really great candidates, I knew that their culture was going to fit with our customer.” And that cuts weeks off of the overall hiring process, and that is a win-win for everybody.

Rachel Bozeman  07:43

Yes, really marinating on this and thinking back about the conversations we've had with a lot of our guests on the podcast, one that came to mind was when we would talk to Scott with Chameleon Consulting Group. I loved the way that he framed it. And he said, “It's a race to the right person.” And I think that's putting the priority in the right place. Oftentimes we think about speed, speed, speed. Go quicker, go faster, make it happen lightning speed. But really, when we put the emphasis on the right part of the process, which is the human, you get to the finish line with the person. There's nothing more embarrassing than getting to the finish line and there is nobody there with you. So it's making sure that you're doing it at the right speed with the right person. It's taking the time now. I say this with a caution and a caveat. This can't be a six-year process, because that feels right for the company. Keep in mind, when you're talking to a candidate, they're not getting a paycheck from you. So there has to be a balance between speed and doing the right thing at the right time. But really, when you're going about it in a way that's thoughtful, considerate, and transparent to the candidate, I think it's a win-win. They understand what's coming, and it's taking your time, not making it feel rushed, allowing them time to process the information. Again, we've all been on the other side of the table. When you have a lot of information coming at you, it can be overwhelming. So allowing them the time to understand, to do their research, to ask the questions, to go out there and get all of the information that the candidate needs, and also for the hiring manager to go back and process their notes, to think about those conversations, and for both parties to be able to step back and say, I'm making the right decision with the right person. That feels pretty dang good.

Kathleen Smith  09:34

Yeah, it does feel really good to make sure that the culture fit works for both the company, the company's goals, and the candidate and the candidate's goals. I really enjoyed our conversation with Allison Flanigan over at a Omega Minds, because she really looked at it as the importance of matchmaking. They really took the time to talk with the candidates and really explain to them the various career opportunities within Omega Minds. They really made sure that the candidate understood that they had a career trajectory with Omega Minds – that it wasn't just a one-time spot, that they really looked at career development, getting to know what was important to that candidate as far as their overall career. So they didn't just talk about that one position. They talked about a few different positions that that person might be interested in. They also then talked about what were the next steps after those positions, so that the candidate could really think of themselves having a career, rather than this is just another place for me to go and get another paycheck. It was also a really great, interesting conversation that we had with David Reynolds over at BAE Systems, because he really wanted to know what made the candidate tick. And I really like this because it goes a little bit deeper than looking at the basic requirements of a candidate. It was, what inspires them? The candidate is selling you. You're selling them, but you really need to know what their passions are. A lot of people who work in the cleared space, most of us support the mission. But why do we support the mission? What are the things that really, as David said, make us tick? And I read in the Harvard Business Review that really finding that culture fit is important in the sense that you have to make sure that your personal and professional values align with the company and the candidate. And I really like their example, that if you're an entrepreneurial organization, if you're a smaller organization, you're going to have to make sure that the employees that come on really like and thrive in that entrepreneurial situation. And thinking of that, and thinking of growing companies, I can't really remember which guests this was, but not having that good cultural fit, especially in a small to medium-sized company, can really throw off, shall we say, the energy of the company. We've talked to a lot of really great guests who have growing companies. They have growth spurts. They're thinking about growing, doubling their size, but if they have one or two people who are not on that same page, that can derail years of business strategy and years of business investment. So understanding where your company is in its growth and what kind of culture that is, and making sure that the candidates that you're interviewing understand that.

Rachel Bozeman  12:44

I know you said you couldn't remember who that guest was that had the quote about growing the smaller company and really making sure you take your time. But it came to me as you were going through it. That was Jim Rebesco at Striveworks. Just to take it a step further from what you were able to share, he talked about just the importance of spending that time. It would be awesome getting to spend four weeks getting to know somebody. You don't marry somebody after the first date. So it really is about that courtship and spending that time, and especially when you have a smaller company, that new hire, they can definitely alter the makeup of that entire company. So take your time, spend your time, and make the right decision.

Kathleen Smith  13:24

Yeah, it's really important, because we have so many companies that are in the GovCon space that are small to medium-sized. Once you bring in one or two people that don't mesh with that culture, don't have that same entrepreneurial spirit, or do whatever you need to do to get the job done, that can not only throw off your growth, it can throw off the entire company. Rachel, what were some of the other best practices that we heard from our guests?

Rachel Bozeman  13:52

So many great ideas. And one of them that comes to mind, in particular, is when we talked to Ashley Testa at BDO. I really appreciated their balance in the way that they think about getting that culture fit in front of the human. And by that, I mean they're doing the human thing, that face-to-face thing, finding ways to engage. But something that Ashley mentioned that they do at BDO is that they're finding innovative ways to bring that culture fit to the people. So I know recently, they just had a really exciting event where they were able to take one of their philanthropic charitable events and intertwine that with a mixer, and intertwine that in with a networking and a hiring event. So what better way to kind of test the waters, especially if that's something that really matters to you as a candidate, you want to know what they're doing within the community, how they're giving back, to see that they're walking what they're preaching. And so they're out there giving back to the community, all at the same time getting to see people in a very organic and natural way. Sometimes things may feel too formal. I think when we're doing an interview, or when candidates walk in and they know they're being interviewed, we're kind of playing a role. Whether it's the interviewer, you sit up a little straighter. As a candidate, you sit up a little straighter and you wear those shoes that you just wouldn't wear anywhere else, because you want to look your best. But you sometimes don't have that opportunity to show your most authentic self, because you're having to play that role. So when you can find an environment where you can take that breath, you can put on the comfortable shoes, and feel comfortable in that conversation, you can show your best self. And the same is true for interviewers. Oftentimes we are as nervous or more nervous than the person sitting on the other end because we want to make sure we do all of the things correct as well. So having an opportunity to be in an environment where maybe you're just taking that candidate to lunch with the entire team. Getting to see people eat hamburgers together, can be a very bonding experience, where you're not focused on answering the question correctly, but you're focused on understanding who the people are, and is this a company and a culture that you could be part of.

Kathleen Smith  16:02

So culture fit, as we've discussed with many of our guests, is really important. When people are not engaged, it is not good for your overall productivity. It's not good for employee morale. It is definitely not good for your veterans, who you are recruiting in. So some of the things to really think about are in-person events, taking a little bit more time when you're interviewing your candidates, and making sure that they feel that you're getting to know them and that you get to know what makes them tick. Thanks so much for joining our special episode focused on recruiters and their recruiting challenges for today, I'm Kathleen Smith with my wonderful co-host Rachel. Thanks for joining us.