Kathleen Smith  00:00

Hi, this is Kathleen at ClearedJobs.Net and we're here today with another episode of our special podcast on cleared recruiting challenges. On our other podcast that Rachel and I do, Security Cleared Jobs: Who's Hiring & How, we always have these great conversations with cleared recruiters in the community. But one question that we ask that we don't share with that audience, but we're sharing with you is a question of what is your biggest recruiting challenge, and what are the tools or solutions you use to overcome them? And some of the challenges that came up were unique. I'm calling them those pesky, unique challenges. But not everyone shared them. They were one-offs. Then when we looked at them all, they sort of said, wow, they really sort of revolve around a main, big topic, which is communication, either generationally or internally, between the hiring manager and the recruiter, or between the recruiter and the client, and externally between customer sites or candidates. So I really just wanted to put all these pesky unique challenges under the umbrella of communication. And I know that's one of your favorite topics. Well, you have many favorite topics, Rachel, but communication is one.

Rachel Bozeman  01:39

I mean, it anchors into every aspect of life, and especially for recruiters, it is just paramount to everything that we do. And our friend Aaron Turner over at Peraton was talking about how communication is our best tool, be it with a candidate, a hiring manager, a colleague, or the community.

Kathleen Smith  01:59

And it's funny because there's always some silver bullet that comes out that's going to change everything, that's going to revolutionize everything. Then, lo and behold, it has its heyday. That's usually about 18 months. And then we go back to what we've always done, which is the tried and true method. So, I want to dive a little deeper into some of these unique, pesky challenges, because I know there's going to be a few other people in this community who are going to resonate with these unique challenges. So, the first one is passing on cleared recruiting knowledge. People are saying, new recruiters come in and they don't understand the intricacies of cleared recruiting. We had an opportunity to talk to Dan Haug, CEO of Cohere Technology Group. And what's interesting is he is actually not a recruiter. He's a lifelong engineer, but he had really great outreach to candidates and has them respond, because he was able to communicate his industry experience. He was able to speak to other engineers and customize and personalize the communication to that unique skilled talent pool that we're trying to get. But the problem is that you can't scale something like Dan has. I mean, he has that knowledge, but you can't all of a sudden have this mind meld, this Vulcan mind meld, and everybody across the entire recruiting team all of a sudden understands this. So, you have to make sure that you come up with strategies on how to communicate it. When you have these hard-to-fill positions, maybe you use an all-hands-on-deck kind of thing, and you share ideas and the experience that someone else has. For instance, if you're targeting transitioning military job seekers, please always reach out to someone on your team who is a veteran, so that they can give you ideas on how to communicate with transitioning military personnel. They're going to be able to educate you as a recruiter on what the candidate is really trying to tell you about their experience. But that veteran can also help you customize the questions you're going to ask the candidate. So really be aware that you have veterans that you can tap into that experience. Now you might not always be able to do that group effort, but do use it as a way to sort of customize your approach with certain candidates. And going back to what Dan was saying and what I heard from several of the other recruiters is, if you have a lot of experience in this community, don't hold it to your chest. Share it. Share how you read between the lines on a resume and really know what someone's working on, even though they can't share with you what they're really doing. Rachel, any other thoughts?

Rachel Bozeman  04:58

No, I love that you bring that up. Considering different perspectives really does help, and sharing that information. It's not a secret sauce that makes you better. It makes us all better when we share it, because we all like a little sauce on our recruiting. So I think it's a great strategy there, and it really does kind of take me back. There was a post by Chloe Field who was talking about what she would tell her younger recruiting self. Something that resonated with me when I was reading back over Chloe's post on LinkedIn was asking for help and finding a mentor that you can really learn from. And I kind of put together my own little list of things that I would tell myself if I was going back into my younger recruiting days. It's all about networking, reaching out, communication. Am I setting clear expectations? Am I really nurturing that whole relationship? Taking it a step further and thinking about it from really the niche of cleared recruiting, we really want to embrace mentoring. I think it's so important to find a mentor in this industry, because there are so many nuances. There are so many things that maybe we haven't considered before, so trying to blaze that trail without having a firm footing underneath you can be scary. So mentoring, to me, is super imperative there, but also shadowing. Be that fly on the wall. And then ask questions. Tell me, why did you ask that question? Or did you expect them to say that? And then share that love back out there. It's about supporting those younger recruiting teams. So as you're gonna hear in this episode, and you hear in all our episodes, share what you learn, have a conversation, and, gosh darn it, can't we just all hold hands and work together? Was that too kumbaya, Kathleen? I'm just in that spirit today.

Kathleen Smith  06:50

I don't know if it's too kumbaya, but we see this at our Cleared Job Fairs a lot, where we see recruiters who are more veteran in the industry, bringing in newer recruiters and having them sort of shadow. As you said, why did you talk to that candidate that way? What were some of the questions? What is the follow-up? So I really appreciate when our customers bring their younger recruiting teams to the job fairs. So enough of that. Let's move on to another challenge that I had a definite aha with, because I think that this one is very unique to our industry. It's the constant changes of our customers’ needs. So this time we're interviewing, or we're recruiting, or sourcing for intel architects, and the next day, all of a sudden, everyone's looking for a cybersecurity analyst. So people think that government contracting is very boring and stayed and doesn't change. It's actually always changing. And I loved our conversation with John Martin of Pro Object. He's the one who said this was a challenge, and his solution was that he always invests in his recruiting team and their tools. But John definitely listens to his team and says that they love job boards and virtual job fairs and also bringing on really great recruiting management. He also talked about communication in that episode, as one of their best tools was word-of-mouth. He said their employees are their best asset, and he really made sure that everyone leveraged their employee referral program. So I really think that was fabulous. He knew that the landscape was always changing, but he didn't need a fancy new tool. He just needed a really great team that was well supplied with good tools and that communicated well, but it also brought to mind sort of the relationship that we all have with our customers, and how do you meet that need? And throughout all of our conversations, you could definitely get the sense, Rachel, couldn't you, that some people were in really good communication with their customers? They really understood the agency that they were supporting, the teams that they were supporting. You could just tell that. And I thought a great communication tool that spanned many different challenges was making sure that there was good desk interaction. And I say desk because we talk about my desk is right across from your desk. I'm the contractor on one side, and the other person is program personnel. But making sure that there's really good communication between the program desk and the contractor desk, and how do you support that communication? And I loved when we were talking with Shannon Donovan over at BDO Public Sector, talking about how they do not micromanage their teams. They really empower their teams to support that relationship. And we touched on this in the second episode of Cleared Recruiting Challenges about creating flexibility for on-site staffing. And again, this was about Shannon saying that if their employees want to build a remote or a hybrid situation, the responsibility is on their shoulders. You have to build the street cred. You have to build a relationship with your program counterpart so that they know that you're going to get that work done. So at the root of it all, it was managers supporting and encouraging that communication between the customer and the employee, which I just thought was a really great solution. It's not a shiny one. It is a stayed staple of our community – good communication between the customer and the company.

Rachel Bozeman  10:52

As you were talking about that customer-employee relationship, I kind of am envisioning this little Russian nesting doll, and we keep disassembling this cute little doll for yet another layer of this communication strategy. Another is the relationship between the recruiter and the company owner. Amy Rau at Shield Consulting touched on some things that really encouraged me and reminded me of ways to really tackle this. So the first one is you've got to set those expectations upfront. And not just set expectations, but they have to be clear. And she's been able to do this throughout her career. Amy kind of mentioned it jokingly, and I feel this, but her undergraduate degree was in early education, and it's been most helpful. And I would cosign on that as someone who has been in the education field. It's all about that communication style, and having that background has made her wildly successful in this space. And she said it lovingly, but I think, honestly, it's really a very helpful strategy having that knowledge of understanding who it is that you're communicating to and how you need to communicate that message to them. So, really boiling down Amy's conversation, it was about setting those expectations and making sure they're clear. Continuing down this path, when we think about communicating with those company owners or leadership, some things that you really need to kind of put into those expectations should include your expertise. What I mean by that is, you've done your research, you understand the state of the market, and you need to be able to tell them those things. You want to say, “Here's what the availability of talent looks like right now. That well is a little dry, so it's going to require more sourcing. It's going to take a little bit longer..” And tie in all of those things so that they kind of understand what that looks like. Or maybe say, “The market is wide open. We have a bazillion folks that are going to be great in this space, so I'm really going to only send you a smaller segment of that.” Set that expectation upfront. Tell them what you're seeing in the industry, and these are the projections. Use those words, don't just lean into anecdotal. It really brings credence, and it really helps solidify it for your company owner. When you're bringing these things to the table, come with valid information. And let them know, “Here's what I'm seeing in the industry, and here's an example of it,” or “Here's some of the projections, and here's where I got it from.” It just really, to me, makes them feel more confident in those expectations that you're setting.

Kathleen Smith  13:31

I'm glad you brought that up about bringing community or industry knowledge to the table, especially when you're talking to owners. Do realize that owners are going to be talking to other owners. And I just know that their recruiters are just dreading when they're coming back from this networking lunch and say, “Well, these people have been able to hire this number of people, and why aren't we?” So have your data, definitely have your data. But moving on, I think the communication is also really great. Your business development teams are really another great relationship that you should be communicating with. And as a recruiter, you have market intel that's beneficial to your business development team, as far as what proposals might be coming down the pipeline, are people going to win the recompetes? What are you hearing from candidates? Are they starting to look for other jobs? What is the scuttlebutt on the street? You might have some insight that you want to share with your BD, but also understand that your BD department can tell you they’re going to go after this bid or that bid. And if you know that ahead of time, you know when you can start sourcing, and you can also be able to start scoping out what kind of talent is out there. But you're also going to be able to give them that knowledge of, please, for whatever reason, do not bid low on this contract, because we may get it, but we won't get the talent because we can't pay them. Communication and setting expectations are really important for any company. But I really want to talk about small businesses, because we have a lot of them in our space. According to the Small Business Administration, small businesses account for about $163 billion in federal contracts, and being a cleared recruiter for a small business means you wear many hats. Not only are you the recruiter, but you're sometimes also going to be the business manager. You're going to have to work on the proposals as well, because you need to help the BD department figure out what labor categories you're going to have. But I've also seen, when you're a smaller company, recruiters are, in addition to being the recruiter, they are the HR manager. They are also sometimes the FSO. Other times they may also be PR, communications, and the janitor. So realize that you need to wear those many different hats, but you need to have some clear communication and expectation setting.

Rachel Bozeman  16:09

I think you forgot about counselor and psychologist.

Kathleen Smith  16:15

Oh, that's true. And the party planner. One of my siblings was an HR manager, and she says, I do a lot of really important things, but the thing that really gets me the dings at the end of the year is how good the Christmas party was.

Rachel Bozeman  16:31

Exactly. And that's a fun hat, though, isn't it? It's usually got some sparkles on it. It's always a good time. But I'm glad you brought up the business development part, because that is an important layer and an important part of this communication strategy and making sure that we have effective communication. So we have talked about communicating with the customers. We've talked about communicating with those company owners. We've talked about business development. Now I'm going to talk about, probably what could be quantified as the biggest love-hate relationship, which is our sweet, darling hiring managers. I know some of you just might have had a reaction to that word, but it's okay, because it really is a love-hate relationship, and oftentimes more love. But again, I think it can be more hearts and rainbows and sunshine when there is effective communication. But if communication isn't there, there really isn't going to be a relationship. So I think it's important that we really anchor into this. We know candidates. They want it speedy, just like going through the drive-through place. They want it quick. They want it their way. I feel like somebody says that, but they want it quick. And so for us as recruiters, the only way that we can help meet the candidates’ expectations is by really having solid communication with the hiring manager, because I'm guilty of saying it just like you're all saying it now, that one hiring manager just wouldn't respond back, or they wanted to schedule the interview three months later after it was supposed to be. So it's about making sure that you're really harnessing and owning that relationship so that you can be in control, or at least help speed up that hiring process. Educate that hiring manager. Let them know that when they're like, “Well, I'd like to see four more candidates” -- I know I just also made a lot of you have a reaction when saying that one -- but it's about letting them know that every second, every minute in this process counts, especially when it's for a highly competitive role. But make sure you're really holding true to it, that you're not allowing them to get off of that hot seat, that you're continuing to follow up with them. You stay in touch with them. If you're using a messaging service at your organization, ping them and just say, “Hey friend. How'd that interview go? What'd you love about them?” Really use the affirmative word so that they can start thinking about that candidate in a positive way. And again, I'm going to go back, because I like to go back. And it was so good when we talked about the expectations. I do want to talk about setting fair expectations on both sides, so you really have to find out what the hiring manager is looking for. Again, as much as we may have that love-hate relationship, they also feel the same way. If we're giving them candidates that they weren't looking for, we’re gonna fall on the latter side of that relationship. They're gonna be like, I do not want to talk to recruiting because they don't even know what I'm looking for. And I know we've all heard them say that before. So ask questions. There's no charge for asking questions. Seek to understand, what are the true blue requirements? What are the preferred and what are those gee golly, those would sure be nice to have? So make sure you're communicating those expectations. “Hey, when I send you a resume, if you could let me know within one business day if you want me to screen this candidate, if you want to interview them.” Be very specific when it comes to interviewing. After they review the resume, continue to drive this horse to water, if you will. Let them know, “Well, when can I set that interview up for you?” Be very affirmative, very succinct. Or “Hey, you just had that interview. How'd it go?”Make sure you're asking. Follow up on those expectations that you set upfront. You understand what they're looking for. Now it's about speed of response, of questions, outreach, and involvement and the next step in the process. And speaking of feedback, because it's such a beautiful thing, if they say no to a resume that you've sent them, don't just be like, “Okay, thanks. Appreciate your feedback.” Seek to understand. There is so much goodness that comes in the “no” sometimes that it'll help you get more yeses. So when they see that resume and they're like, no, I'm just not interested in this one. “Well, could you help me understand a little bit more about why this resume didn't meet?” That's really going to help you refine your search. That feedback is going to be so vital for how you're recruiting, how you're presenting candidates, and ultimately making that love-hate relationship a little more love.

Kathleen Smith  21:20

Yeah, I know a lot of us grimace and groan about the hiring manager relationship, so I'm really glad that you gave some examples of answering in the affirmative and really pushing that into the positive realm. So we've talked about many different pesky, unique challenges. And then there's that one that we sort of glossed over, which is candidate communication. And we talked to Jason Immediato over at Leading Path Consulting, and he said one of his biggest challenges was just to get people to respond and get back to him. And I know I can hear a collective groan of the industry. Yes, getting candidates to not ghost you, to get back, I know that this is such a really big challenge. So how do you get that candidate to respond? And I know that there's a lot out there right now about AI and how it's going to make everything better, but my only caution on that is, if you use it, please check it. Please read it before you hit send. I think customizing a message, mixing up the messaging, is really important. And this is what Jason was really telling us, is that he really makes sure that when he listens to the candidates, he really finds out, what are they really looking for? Are they looking for a location change? Are they looking for a change in their salary? Are they looking for a change or an upgrade, or even a downgrade, of their clearance? Jason really found that if he mixed up this messaging, it was very helpful in increasing his response rate. And he also touched on the various different forms of communication. Even though, in our community, a lot of people tend to like email and phone because of SCIFs, it's also something that is a generational preference. We're finding that more of your older, I'd say me, would be phone and email. I've always, no matter what age I am, I've always preferred email. Then texting tends to be something for a younger audience. But you know what? We said this in previous episodes. Ask them what they prefer. It's really interesting. That's the first step in setting up a really good candidate experience. How do they want to communicate? And another thing that Dan Haug shared earlier was his experience in the industry is what he used to customize his outreach. So these are all things that help you customize your message to the candidate.

Rachel Bozeman  24:02

I do want to throw out just a couple of things that I think have been helpful, that we've learned from guests or I’ve been able to do throughout my career. It's just sharing, like, how do you get a better response rate from candidates? And the first one, you kind of teetered into it, but it's personalization, making sure that when you're talking to them, make sure that they know it's not the “dear candidate” type of approach. Use their name, look at their resume, and use something specific from it. Maybe they went to the same school you went to. Be like, “Hey friend, got another alum here.” Make sure that it's something specific, so that they know it's not AI talking to them and a real human that's interested in their career. Keep it short. Don't write a novel. Be succinct, so that they have time to read, digest, and know their next steps. And ask a question. Make it easy for them to respond to you. Once you have that communication, that two-way communication going, again, it's about setting those clear expectations for yet another layer of this communication strategy, which is the candidate. Notice the pattern? I hope you did, because we've been setting one here for you friends. Let them know what they're going to expect in the hiring process. Let them know what comes first, what comes next. How many interviews? Are there assessments? Are they going to need to provide references? Are they going to have to come on-site to meet with the customer? How long is this darn process going to take? Make sure you set those expectations upfront. Also, we're going to throw that elephant back out there. Talk about the salary range and get it out there. That's what they're thinking about. So the sooner you can get it out there, have an honest conversation about that. They don't have to think about that, and they can truly focus on sharing their skills, talents, and all of those great things. And let them know how they can reach out to you, when you'll be back in touch with them again. Ask their preference, as Kathleen mentioned, ask them exactly, “Do you prefer text, email, smoke signal, homing pigeon?” Whatever that is, get that information and then set that expectation. “I'm going to follow up with you on Friday” and then be a good recruiter of your word. If you say Friday, follow up on Friday. Don't just leave them out there hanging. So make sure those expectations are clear. It really helps improve their process. It takes some of the worry out of it, and to me, it's the difference between a good and a great recruiter. So, Kathleen, I know we've talked about a lot of things. We've talked about the different setting of expectations for the different layers throughout the recruiting process and that great communication strategy. Take us home.

Kathleen Smith  26:32

And I find it fascinating that we can communicate about communication until we're just like communicated out. And I think that this is one of the challenges that we really run into. And throughout all of our interviews, we talked about getting candidates on-site or being known in the community, or candidate engagement, it's really understanding within your own team, well, first within your own self, what you're trying to get accomplished. And then within your own team, what you're trying to get accomplished. But be clear. I know so many times we don't want to set these communication expectations. We want to sort of glide under the radar, and hopefully we'll get it done, and we'll pull it out with a Hail Mary or something like that. No, be clear about what you want. Be clear about what you can offer. Be clear with the expectations. And I'm going to be clear that, one, I'm grateful for all of you. I want to thank you all for joining our show today. Be sure to share this episode with your recruiting community, with a fellow recruiter, and if you have a moment, rate and review our show. Thanks so much.