Kathleen Smith 00:00
Hello everyone. Yes, we're on video today. I'm Kathleen Smith with ClearedJobs.Net and I'm here with my wonderful friend, Rachel Bozeman. Rachel, how are you today?
Rachel Bozeman 00:11
I am just peachy keen.
Kathleen Smith 00:15
I know, you're all peachy today. Very peach, being the southern bell that you are, I appreciate that. So today's our wrap up. We're wrapping up this wonderful newsletter that we launched with the podcast, really focusing on cleared recruiting challenges. And for those of you who haven't been along on the journey, we have culminated all of the answers to the big question that we ask in our main podcast, which is: what are the main cleared recruiting challenges you have, and what tools or skills do you use to overcome it? And we've heard a whole variety of different challenges and solutions that were provided by our cleared recruiters who were guests. And today we're going to wrap this all up, but then also dovetail into, what are some of the new recruiting challenges that they're forecasting for 2025, because we're noticing some similarities, and we can use some of these challenges that people have been solving and make sure that we're using them in 2025. So what kind of challenges did we cover in this newsletter and podcast edition, Rachel?
Rachel Bozeman 01:37
Well, Kathleen, we have covered an awful lot of ground. So just in case any of our friends, like you mentioned, maybe they missed an episode or two, let us remind you of what we covered. And make sure that you go out there and you can check those show notes, just make sure that you catch up on every episode and every discussion. So just a quick reminder, because that's what we do. We're kind and generous and are going to help you remember what we previously covered. So we talked about candidate engagement, experience, and excellence. We've talked about getting candidates on site and managing that SCIF stress that exists. We also talked about finding the right culture fit, or maybe finding talent for roles in diverse locations. That was a good one. How to compete for talent when you can't offer the most competitive salary. That one was really good too. They're all good, maybe I should just stop. They're all good. Gosh, go listen. Listen to the one about building visibility and brand reputation to stand out in the crowded market, or solving unique obstacles with effective communication. Do what we say, not as we communicate. How to recruit a very specific skill set. And not our last, but a really good one that you also want to listen to, was how to build a better pipeline to combat the shrinking talent pool. Lots of stuff.
Kathleen Smith 03:05
Yeah, this was a lot of stuff. These were a lot of the top challenges that we were hearing from our guests on our other podcast, Security Cleared Jobs: Who’s Hiring & How. And when we looked at all of these challenges that we've been talking about, and then we saw all of the predictions coming out for what are going to be the big topics for this upcoming year, or for the year that we're in already, we started seeing sort of some overlap. And we started to see that while there are a lot of challenges, we can sort of put them in three main buckets. So the first one was candidate experience. What are our candidates looking for? How do we make sure that they have a good experience, and how does that impact your overall recruiting pipeline? The other one, a very hot topic, returning to office, returning to site. We've got all of this hybrid remote, but underneath there, we really identified that in the cleared community, we have SCIF stress, we have mental health issues, we have burnout, we have the need for a lot of flexibility. So lots of really good solutions coming up with that one. And then finally, the third bucket that we sort of found all of our solutions coming under were employee engagement, internal mobility, and career growth, which is something that is a really great topic. I'm glad that this came up, mainly because it's going to be a way that we keep our cleared talent within the community. So these are really great recruiting trends that have been challenges, but now we have all these solutions, and now they're coming up as hot topics. So let's dive into some of these, Rachel.
Rachel Bozeman 04:49
I love a good hot topic, but not as much as I love talking about candidate experience, because I think it is so important, and it really is going to be so paramount in 2025, that we figure this out and really do an incredible job here. So we know the challenge. When you've got so many reqs that are coming in, you've got so many applicants, we've all seen our pipeline start to increase, so how do we make sure that we're really providing that stellar, that A+, that incredible, once in a lifetime type of candidate experience to each applicant and candidate that we're engaging with. It's so important because this really is the difference maker. I don't know if you saw it, Kathleen, but there was that report on Talent Board, and it talks about how 81% of candidates are going to share that positive experience they had with their network, while 66% are also going to share a not so stellar, or a negative experience they had. Those are pretty high numbers to say it matters. If you make a great experience, they're going to share it. Not so great, also going to share it. I like the 81% to share that positive experience. So how do you ensure that you really are able to deliver that stellar, positive, A+ type of experience? We got a couple of solutions because, you know, that's what your girls here do. We’re going to give you some solutions to these hot topics and problems that might exist out there in our world. So the first solution is pretty simple. Clearly spell out the steps of the hiring process on your career site, and in that initial engagement and conversation with them, set the expectations upfront. Clear as kind. Let them know what's coming next. Katie Sargent over at Two Six Technologies shared what they're doing over there, which I thought was pretty incredible. They have the step-by-step, interviewing, hiring, and onboarding process on their website. So before you even hit apply, you know exactly where you fall in that timeline and what you can expect before and after. They also provide those career resources to help with the interview. They're not going to make it hard for you. They want you to know what's available. Consider that. Make it simple for the candidate. What are those different career resources so that they can nail that interview? Because we know interviews are tricky. They're not always fun sitting on the other side of the table. And then something I love that they do, and I know this is becoming another hot topic, Kathleen, so we may even dig in further, but it's they give the questions that are going to be asked, to the candidate. They don't believe in surprises. To me, it's a great way to show, are they coachable? Did they take the feedback? Did they take the information, and were they able to take all that, combine it, and give a really good result? So I love that solution, but Kathleen, I know you have a pretty amazing solution as well.
Kathleen Smith 07:36
Well, I have to commend Two Six Technologies for doing that, because many of the times I've seen other companies will sort of list out the different steps on their website, but they don't go into the resources. They don't go into the questions. And questions are a big deal. If someone can prepare for those ahead of time, that's amazing. But on top of it, it just gives no more surprises. None of us like surprises in interviews. So surprising your candidate is not a great way to engage them. So having the questions ahead of time, I think, is an awesome solution. Number two is being mindful about the number of steps in your application and overall hiring process. I know that we sometimes get really wrapped up in, “I want to grab this information. I want to grab that information. I want to make sure that I'm getting all of these things that make it more easy, more compliant on my end.” So be mindful of the number of steps that you put into the application process. So Toni Johnson, over at General Dynamics Mission Systems, advised us to make sure that we understand that there's the right balance between the number of clicks in the application, the number of steps, and the amount of information you want to get. Because if you go as a recruiter to your own website and try to apply, which is another good recommendation, how many steps is it? I mean, we all know, if we're going to order Starbucks or Uber Eats or something like that, if there are 10 steps, forget it. We're not going to do it. So be sure you're limiting the number of steps or clicks within your overall process. And as I said earlier, go and apply to your own website. Go and apply to your own job. Make sure that there aren't any typos in there. Make sure that you can understand what it is. That way you're making sure that it is a very good process for your candidates. Rachel, what's another solution that we find for candidate engagement?
Rachel Bozeman 09:50
Absolutely, I love that. Keep it simple. This one really speaks to where we're at as a society. We've got so much stuff out there, AI and different ways – you have to order your own food out of a kiosk. But when it comes to recruiting, it really is about that human to human experience and making it personal. This is not just about ghosting candidates or leaving them unread, which is an unforgivable sin, but it's about how you treat the candidates, and making sure that you are treating the candidates not only the way that you want to be treated, but a way that you are proud that speaks to your reputation as a recruiter and as an organization. And somebody who I think did a really nice job of laying this out was Jeff Mathias over at Core4ce. She talked about sometimes it is just picking up the phone and calling that candidate at every stage. Letting them know, “Hey, I know this is taking a little bit longer than maybe we discussed, but here's why, and here's what you can expect next.” And just making it personable. Don't make it so cookie cutter that they think every other candidate gets the same experience. Make it feel like it's customized and something that particular candidate needs in that moment. And then, it's about providing feedback to the candidate on maybe why they didn't get the job. I know that one can be a little tricky, because you don't want to back yourself into that squishy, legal corner where you say too much. But sometimes it is about just sharing, “Hey, in the course of interviewing some good feedback is not to bash your current employer.” Provide things that are going to be helpful. Don’t provide feedback that isn't going to bring value, but make sure it's feedback that is important to them and can help them land their next career.
Kathleen Smith 11:38
So the next hot topic that also came up in all of our recruiting challenges, that also sort of dovetails into the hot topics for 2025 recruiting, is this very interesting return to the office, return to work. And we saw this come out of the pandemic, and then it became an issue that was clearly a challenge for many of the recruiters in our cleared space, because so many people were looking for remote and hybrid positions. And we really talked about, and I think we were the only ones that were really talking about this, that this uncovered something else, which was called SCIF stress, which is mainly the number of people that we have in the community who work in SCIFs, but don't have the flexibility to have a work-life balance, to be able to go on doctor's appointments or take care of their family or emergencies. And what I really loved is that we came forward as a community and identified that it's not the return to office that's the challenge. It is the stress of not being able to flow with life. Many companies came forward with, let's get this flexibility. Let's really talk to the candidate about why they need remote or hybrid, and it really opened the conversation. So I really talk about it being burnout, our mental health issues in the cleared community, because people are working in windowless offices, dealing with traffic at the gate, not being able to go pick up a sick child or doing a variety of things. I mean, this even came up in a Gallup study that said more than 26% of the federal employees felt that they very often or always felt burnt out. So offering hybrid or remote opportunities was a solution that candidates were appreciating, but we weren't always able to come up with that. So many of our guests were able to come up with a variety of solutions for this. Rachel, what were some of our solutions for this challenge?
Rachel Bozeman 13:52
Some fantastic ones. And I like the first one, because I think it really goes to the core of what we should do in recruiting – seek to understand. So everybody you know may think that they want to work from home, but it's asking and seeking to understand why it’s important for them to work from home. Sometimes understanding their desire to work from home, you might be able to address some underlying concerns that they have, that aren't solved by working from home. It isn't a one size fits all solution all the time, and so it really is about seeking to understand. Working from home won’t always solve all of the employees’ problems and make life wonderful. It's really finding ways to manage that life-work balance with flexibility and maybe customizing some of the benefits in such a way that really addresses the true need of what the employee or candidate could have.
Kathleen Smith 14:46
And I think the other thing that this challenge -- the return to office, remote, hybrid, SCIF stress -- really identified was burnout. And we don't address this enough within the cleared community. It was something that came up a lot during the pandemic, and then we came up with, as you said, everyone thought remote and hybrid was the answer, and it's not. It's being flexible. So the other challenge is SCIF burnout, or SCIF stress. And we had a great solution provided by Shawn Devroude of SixGen, who said there’s a high rate of burnout, so let's rotate our employees through our commercial components. And I love this because it made sure that the employees were really sharp. They understood all of the technologies and the technical skills and capabilities of the entire company as they rotated through. So then, when the company went to bid on a new project or going up for a re-upping on a contract, the employees really understood all of the capabilities of the company, and they were able to understand how they could add value to that contract. I think that really allowed the employees to have more ownership, more engagement. They felt like they were part of the mission of that company. And I thought that was a very fabulous way of making sure that you were addressing the burnout. I think the other thing is, we are not looking at SCIF stress as something that really has to be part of everyone's benefit package. If you're going to have Full Scope Poly, CI Poly, SCIF staff, you really should be looking at how you can make sure that they stay engaged with your overall company. We heard from several other people about how they made sure that the SCIF employees came back to the office several times, that they were part of all the social activities, and that they were not thought of as that other team somewhere else. They really made sure that they came in, and they also made sure that their managers went into the SCIF and checked in on them, checked in on their environment, checked in on what's going on. So I'm really glad that this is sort of a challenge we're still making sure is front and center, because we really need to identify it. What's our third and final hot topic that we learned?
Rachel Bozeman 17:20
Oh, this is a good one, and it's hot, it's spicy, and it's so important to what we do every day. And it's really about employee engagement, internal mobility, and career growth. And to me, it is the secret sauce to making sure that you have success in this space and overcome those challenges. Because we know employee engagement goes hand in hand with company culture. There was that Gallup poll that talked about employees who feel connected to their culture. They're 3.7 times more likely to be engaged at work. They're also 5.2 times more likely to recommend their organization as a great place to work. And everyone loves a great referral. They’re 68% less likely to feel burned out or feel tired from all the work in front of them. And 55% less likely to be looking for a new job. Not only do we like referrals, we love some retention. So it's super important that we're making sure that we keep our folks engaged. So really, the challenge becomes, how in the heck do you engage employees effectively to retain that top talent? And again, we're coming with the solutions as much as we are the challenges. So that first solution is, first focus on matchmaking. I think it's going back to the core of what recruiting is. We don't simply want to put a butt in a seat. We want to make sure that the candidates are going to be a good culture fit as well. It's not just looking at those technical skills or just their experience, but making sure that their wants and their needs are going to be addressed and be a good fit for our culture. Allison Flanagan, over at Omega Minds, said they don't want to grow too fast and lose the culture of the company, so it is about finding that right balance and adding to the culture and not having detractors in there. She also said it's important to match candidates with the right opportunity. Maybe they applied for a software engineer, but in talking to them, they're better aligned for a different role within the organization. So it's about using these wonderful things, these ears, and listening to what these candidates are asking for, and aligning them with the culture and the right career. And even more specifically, she wants to match the candidate’s career trajectory with the growth of the company. So if this is an eager candidate, and they're looking to grow, grow, grow super fast, and maybe that's not exactly where the company is, it's again, leaning in and listening. Not only is it about just focusing on the matchmaking, but finding another way to improve that engagement is to prioritize internal mobility and career growth. I think this is such an important one. There was a Work Defense study that came out that said 78% of employees are leaving the industry because there's more career advancement outside of the industry.
Kathleen Smith 20:16
And I thought that one was so important. I was like, wait a minute, we are not offering career advancement, internal mobility. We are not career mapping our people. And I know the intelligence agencies are finally getting on that, because they're getting so much new talent in, but they're not career mapping internal mobility. I mean, I think we talked about how there were several companies that I used to talk to a lot, and they actually had internal regulations that said there was no internal mobility. And it took them years and years to get rid of that so that they could retain their talent, and retain specifically their military talent. So anyway, let's talk about some of those solutions that our customers came up with.
Rachel Bozeman 21:08
Absolutely. And one of them was Mark Diehl over at BlueHalo. Job hopping is a trend. I don't want to say it's a good trend, but it's a trend in the community, and it's due to companies not growing their own people. And I think it goes to exactly what you just said. People do want to be challenged. They want to find new ways to grow. And so it is about making sure you're nurturing that, and listening and understanding what their career goals are. Helping them map that and see that light at the end of the tunnel, and it's not a freight train. And so over at BlueHalo, they have an internal mobility program to make sure that they're able to retain their employees, whether the employee wants to just do something a little different or learn something new. Maybe they've outgrown the current position that they're in, or maybe they're losing coverage due to the contract ending. So it really is about diving in, seeking to understand what their career goals are, and having a program wrapped around retaining your employees. Just listen to what they're saying, friends. It's that simple.
Kathleen Smith 22:13
I know it was interesting because we had several, I think we had two or three different guests, who actually came on, and their title was not only director of talent acquisition, but also retention. And they were really looking at, how do we retain our talent? Because if you're a really great recruiter and you're bringing in some really great talent, and then all of a sudden, the opportunities are not there for them to grow, and they end up leaving, you're going to be recruiting for that position again. It's called churn. It's called turnover. Let's keep this talent. So I think those have been really good hot topics. I'm really glad that we were seeing this sort of melding of the recruiting challenges that we're experiencing in our space that are coming up as hot topics. So thanks so much for listening to the entire podcast today and all of our other episodes. Thank you for reading. If you enjoyed the information, rate, review, and share the episodes with your friends. Any final words from you, Rachel?
Rachel Bozeman 23:28
Without further ado, thank you. We've enjoyed this time together. Stay hot, stay recruiters.