Kathleen Smith 00:49
Hello everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Security Cleared Jobs: Who’s Hiring & How. I'm Kathleen, one of your fabulous co-hosts. My other fabulous co-host is Rachel. How are you doing today, my dear?

Rachel Bozeman 01:04
Oh shucks, oh the goodness. Kathleen, I am so excited to be here, but I'm gonna go ahead and do a spoiler alert. I might be even more excited about the guest that we have with us today. I know she's been here before. She's always out there doing amazing things. So before I let the cat out of the bag, who’s with us, Kathleen?

Kathleen Smith 01:27
Probably one of my dearest friends in the community, the one, the only, Kirsten Renner, otherwise known as KRenner, the VP of Talent Strategy at SilverEdge Government Solutions. My dear, welcome back to the show.

Kirsten Renner 01:40
I could not be happier to be here, all cozied up, ready for the snow.

Kathleen Smith 01:45
No snow. We're ready for spring. Come on, we're ready for spring.

Kirsten Renner 01:49
Yeah, this goes on in March. So you're like, what? I’m confused. It's snowing right now.

Rachel Bozeman 01:55
We’re gonna think warmer thoughts. So if you don't mind, we're just gonna start back at the beginning, because it's a very good place to start. So just give us a quick little overview of your career journey and share some of your current responsibilities there at SilverEdge.

Kirsten Renner 02:09
All right, I have been in the cleared space for a couple of decades. I started doing a little bit of software engineering and managing help desks, and I fell, as many of us do, into the talent space. I’ve been recruiting in the secured space since about 2010, and at SilverEdge, I am doing talent strategy, helping run recruiting and do social engagement, internally and externally.

Kathleen Smith 02:35
It's wonderful that you can put it all together—social engagement, social recruitment. I think I like that term, social recruitment. You're really out there in the community, part of many of the conferences and happy hours and networking events, and really bringing it back to the people. So I think that's great. So tell us about SilverEdge Government Solutions and what the company is doing in the cleared community.

Kirsten Renner 02:58
Sure. First, I just want to go back, because you mentioned all the community stuff, and I absolutely have to say that I wouldn’t have even known what that meant if it weren’t specifically for you, Kathleen. You pushed me up on the stage for the first time a long time ago. All the stuff that you see me doing, there’s a good chance she probably put me there at some point. So thank you for that. SilverEdge Government Solutions is amazing. I had my eye on them for a long time before I joined, and in addition to security and cyber ops, intel analysis, workflow automation, and other services provided across IC and DOD, we have something known as SOAR. This is a next-generation ecosystem of products, custom-built COTS and GOTS capabilities with tailored solutions for generative AI and machine learning, data visualization, and so forth. So it’s a suite of products and services. It’s a mouthful.

Rachel Bozeman 03:59
But a mouthful of amazing. Yes, absolutely. Well, tell us a little bit about who and what you’re typically looking to hire there at SilverEdge. Is there a particular skill set that you’re highly seeking out there?

Kirsten Renner 04:13
Absolutely. All clearance and experience levels across software engineering, systems engineering, ServiceNow, machine learning, and intel analysis.

Rachel Bozeman 04:25
And you know I’m going to ask, where are the positions located?

Kirsten Renner 04:29
All throughout the DMV and down in what we can call the Bragg area now as well, and throughout the US. And we have deployable positions throughout the world, so pretty much everywhere.

Kathleen Smith 04:41
So I see you a lot out on LinkedIn and a variety of social media, and I see all the pictures showcasing your employees and how it’s really great to work there. So how would you describe the company culture at SilverEdge? I mean, what is it like to work there? You make it look very fun and exciting.

Kirsten Renner 05:00
I gotta tell you, our go-to phrase is, “Let’s go.” And I couldn’t think of a better phrase. It’s so us. In fact, on my first day, I got a text message from the CEO, and it was, you know, welcome and so forth, and then in all caps, “LET’S GO.” And it’s kind of the punctuation to every mission, every challenge, everything that we’re going through—very much together, very much supported, very much everything’s a team sport. The little things, the big things, you feel very supported. All the stakeholders are very mission-driven, which is kind of a very cliché thing to say, but it’s so true. When we say “let’s go,” we’re shouting it like we’re very excited to be here and working together.

Rachel Bozeman 05:41
Never too early for a “let’s go” out there. So thanks for sharing a little bit more about the culture, but something—there’s so many things to love about you, but one of the things that is particularly near and dear to my heart is that you’re an Army mom, and we know that SkillBridge is kind of near and dear to your heart. So tell us a little bit about what SilverEdge is doing in the participation of the SkillBridge program.

Kirsten Renner 06:03
The timing on that question couldn’t be better, because I was just talking to one of our portfolio leaders about the work that they do in terms of ServiceNow and workflow automation, because they do a lot of really helping and guiding. One of my go-to principles is recognizing that someone has not just the skills and experience but the willingness and ability to learn new things, and that portfolio and across the business areas, we recognize people’s ability to learn things. And I said, “How about we open up a cohort to SkillBridge for ServiceNow?” And without hesitation, no sooner had I finished the question mark on the sentence, he was like, “Let’s go.” I was like, “Yes!” And he meant it, and that’s cool. So look out for that soon—openings with regard to learning ServiceNow.

Kathleen Smith 06:54
Let’s go over to one of our favorite topics, which is LinkedIn. And I have two questions. So the first is, you recently posted about scammy recruiter practices. I know it’s one of your favorite topics, and I’ve got another favorite one after this. Okay, tell me what our audience should be looking out for with scammy recruiter practices.

Kirsten Renner 07:19
It’s so unfortunate. When we first started talking about the scams, I feel like it was 2020, when the nefarious actors were taking advantage of the situation that a lot of workers found themselves in at that time. They were taking advantage of that. Bad actors are getting better and better at making it look real. You no sooner change your status to “open to looking for opportunities,” and they even encourage you by pre-populating what you should share with a specific hashtag. There are algorithms built to catch that hashtag and immediately respond. Guess what? Right when you changed your status, hundreds of people didn’t message you and share your post—that was a robot. And I don’t say that in a condescending way. It’s scary how real they look. You need to go look at the profile of every person that appears to be trying to communicate with you and figure out if they’re real, right? They’re all pretty, and they all have the director title, and they all act like they care about you, but they also all are saying the exact same thing. So this is where it comes down to one of the principles that we always talk about—having real relationships and having valued relationships, people who will refer you to others and who are real. Trust and verify, as they say in our community, right? One tidbit for sure is if any recruiter—or so-called recruiter or anyone posing as a recruiting professional—insists that you send them a resume, regardless of whether or not you point them back to your profile, if they ask for a connection request instead of messaging you, that’s a red alert. That’s a bad sign. It’s because they can’t message you because that ability has been disabled for them because of their behavior, and they’re doing data gathering also. So you can refer them back to your profile and then try to have a conversation with them by asking them something that requires more than a yes-or-no answer, because as smart as the machines are, they’re really not reading—just like they really can’t spell and they can’t draw pictures. So ask them a question that they have to answer. Take a look at the profile and say, “I noticed you’re at XYZ company. Tell me about what it’s like there.” Make them answer you with words, and you’re going to find out, unfortunately, that a lot of them are not real. So I couldn’t be more passionately upset about these scams—people that I care about, and particularly transitioning service members, right? They’re coming into this space, and it’s already scary. It’s already scary, and then they put that they’re open to work, and they immediately get scammed. It’s awful. We have to educate the community, right?

Kathleen Smith 10:07
We have to educate the community. I hate to say it, but we’ve been talking about scams—scams on social media—since 2007. I remember when there was a conference, and I started in the recruiting space, and I was talking to one of the senior leaders at one of the largest government contractors out there, and he shared that his entire recruiting team at that time could not be on any social media because a bad actor from outside of the country had basically duplicated their entire TA team online, and they were reaching out to people with security clearances. So it’s sad to say, it’s been around for a very long time.

Kirsten Renner 10:50
And sending fake offers. We’ve seen that.

Kathleen Smith 10:54
Yes, we’ve seen that. We’ve seen a lot. So as you said, develop relationships, build the trust, and verify with the people where they work. The other topic that I wanted to talk about, which is something that I see and is sort of my bugaboo, is when fabulous recruiters that I know post a position—they post it on LinkedIn, they say some wonderful things like the salary and that they’ll sponsor for a clearance and all these great things—and candidates just click the button that says, “I’m interested.” So what should a candidate do on LinkedIn if someone posts a position? What is the appropriate response and steps that a candidate should take to be able to say, “I’m interested in this position, and what can you do to tell me more about it?”

Kirsten Renner 11:46
We have to close the gap, right? You can’t assume that anyone on either side of that formula is going to be able to stop and look at your whole profile. Don’t just say “I’m interested.” What’s the call to action there? Are you saying that you want the person who posted the job to then go do all the work and look at your profile? Meet them in the middle a little bit. What are you interested in? Do some research. You know, the fire talk that I did at ShmooCon was called CLIMB, and CLIMB is an acronym for the steps you should take, and it starts with choosing—choosing what the finish line is, choosing where you want this to end. So do the research on what is the position, what is the company. Meet the recruiter in the middle, I think, by doing a little bit of legwork too. Don’t just say you’re interested—interested in what? Also, try to be cognizant of the volume, especially of the responses that they’re getting or the people that are coming in. Maybe help me get you there by helping me map you and match you to the opportunity by saying, “And here’s what I can do.” And guess what? Generative AI can help you with that too. You don’t want them writing your resumes for you and conducting your interviews for you, but you can share documents, and you can say, “Here’s what I’m looking at, here’s what my skills look like. Does this translate? Help me translate this,” so that you can say, “Here’s the requirements that you’re looking for—you just showed that you understood—and here’s the things that I’ve done that are relevant to what you’re looking for.”

Kathleen Smith 13:21
Really great. I mean, you have to do more. You have a conversation. Just don’t click a button. So, usually they’ll post a position link. So it’s one, read the position. Are you truly well qualified for that one? And then two, customize your resume, right, to be matching that position, apply for the position, and then maybe send a note to the recruiter saying, “Hey, just so you know, at 11 a.m. this morning, I responded to your posting and would love to connect or talk to you a little bit more about this or what other positions you may have.”

Kirsten Renner 14:02
You definitely can’t just apply.

Kathleen Smith 14:06
And please don’t just click “I’m interested.” You know, that pre-populated response there on LinkedIn—a little bit more engagement is needed on your part.

Rachel Bozeman 14:14
Absolutely. It’s about doing the work up front and having those real relationships. So I know, and I hate to ask this, but I’m going to anyway—I’m going to shoot my shot. If you don’t mind sharing maybe some more job search tips for our cleared professionals that can really help them be most successful in their hunt, in their journey.

Kirsten Renner 14:32
I’m going to reiterate a lot of the basic principles that Kathleen was just saying, right? You can’t just apply. I have a theory that there’s more jobs posted than are actually available. So that’s another disheartening thing for folks when they aren’t hearing back when they apply. It’s the follow-up that matters. Go all the way back to elementary school and remember what you were told about effort and showing effort, right? That matters. Get those bonus points by doing the customization. You can have your basic outline for what you want to say about yourself, but make sure that you are keeping in mind—remember we talked about being cognizant of the volume that the recruiters are looking at—make sure that what you’re saying about yourself very quickly, in one or two sentences, is telling the person who looks at it in three to five seconds, entice them to continue to read by saying, “This is what I want you to know about me. This is what I do.” And the further along you get in your journey, there are so many more things that you’re capable of, right? And then tell them how you want it to end. Remember, climbing starts with knowing where you want to get to. Say, “I am a this, and I want to be a that. I am a systems engineer. I am looking to utilize my this particular type of experience or expertise to become a solutions architect, to become a director, to become a business development professional.” I think that’s very key—not just at the very tippity top of your resume, whether you paid $500 for somebody to write your resume for you or not, or whether you figured it out on your own. Start there, and always do the follow-up. And Kathleen already said that. There are different places that different ones of us are comfortable with, different medias that we’re comfortable with, but do the follow-up. You can do research very, very quickly—who’s hiring for the title that you’re looking for, what types of companies, who works there? So don’t just look at what the company says about themselves—they’re going to say good things about themselves. Who’s working there? What are they doing? What are they saying about their workday? How have they grown? Have they grown in that one place? That tells you a lot about a company. When you look at the people who are working there, are they growing while they are there, or do they have to leave in order to grow? So that’s very telling. That’s just a research assignment for you. Most of the community is really good at figuring out requirements and doing research, so give yourself the benefit of being the problem that you’re trying to solve when you’re looking for something, right? Because you guys know how to solve problems.

Kathleen Smith 17:03
You have many hiring success stories. What’s one reason that you feel super accomplished, so that we can inspire our audience as to, yes, there are great success stories out there?

Kirsten Renner 17:14
Oh my gosh, I don’t have a favorite. I don’t have a favorite because—I promise this is true. It doesn’t sound true as I hear myself about to say it; this sounds kind of cliché—but every single time, whether it’s within my own organization or anybody reaching out, and I feel I wish I could help more people, I really do—every time I make the connection or the match, every time I help someone get there, it matters, right? It’s the exact opposite of those scammers that don’t care about you. I think one of the things that I also actually feel very passionate about is when you help people internally as well—when people are looking to do either pivoting into something new or growing. I think one of the things that I value the most is helping people solve that problem too, so you don’t have to leave. And that usually comes down to just really communicating—communicating and collaborating across stakeholders, figuring out what people are looking for. So my advice to anyone out there that isn’t exactly happy where you are: give everybody a shot by communicating. Make it crystal clear what could make you happy or satisfied or fulfilled where you are. Because you might not realize that the opportunity is there. While people are chasing balls, they may not realize, “Hey, there’s somebody that should be on my radar that we want to take care of.”

Rachel Bozeman 18:36
So how in the heck can our cleared professionals reach out to you or a member of your team to learn more about SilverEdge and all of the amazing career opportunities available?

Kirsten Renner 18:47
Definitely, LinkedIn is great. That’s where I would start with the recruiting team. And I would say also, one of the things I am most guilty of is meaning to get back to a large volume of people that have reached out. The worst thing I will ever do to you—and definitely follow up, follow up, that’s a reminder—people want to get back in touch with you. So if they drop the ball, if I drop the ball, reach back out. And the worst thing that will ever happen is I’m going to give you to somebody that I trust. So reach out, and I’ll get you routed to somebody who is going to take care of you.

Kathleen Smith 19:18
Wonderful. Well, Kirsten, always great to have you come back and join us and share what you’re doing and great advice. So thank you so much. As always, fabulous to talk with my dear friend Kirsten Renner, and I’m so excited that she’s at an amazing employer who really loves having her go out into the community and do happy hours and things like that. I loved her advice on LinkedIn, especially, to keep an eye out for what we’re seeing more and more—the scammy recruiters. Rachel?

Rachel Bozeman 19:53
Agreed. I mean, she always brings her A-game, and it’s always such a pleasure. I think we all walk away a little bit smarter and a little bit more full of joy every time we get to talk to her. But I really did appreciate being on the early part of learning about what they’re doing at SkillBridge and bringing that into the organization. So it was an awful lot of fun. Learned an awful lot. Hopefully you learned an awful lot. And with that, be sure you come back next week—yep, next week. Hit that follow button so you don’t forget, because you know life is gonna happen, and we look forward to learning with you next time. Till then, bye.