Wincinnati Podcast
Wincinnati Podcast
Joe Goodberry Joins The Wincinnati Podcast to Talk Bengals Draft
Ace and Zim are joined by Joe Goodberry to discuss the 2025 draft for the Cincinnati Bengals.
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Bengals Draft with Joe Goodberry coming up next on the Winston Eddy Podcast.
SPEAKER_03:It's an exciting time to be a major fan.
SPEAKER_02:Welcome, welcome, welcome to the Winston Eddy Podcast. I'm A.C. Zim. And of course, we have a special guest for you guys tonight. We're talking Bengals Draft. So we had to bring in the legend, Joe Goodberry. So he will be joining us today. Zem, before we get into that and introduce our legendary guest, what you got going on today, brother? Nothing much, man. But, you know, he's going crazy in all these camps and stuff. So he had a real big day at camp. So left that, went to training. So I've been basketball mode. So I'm happy to get back to football. But I will say this. I had epiphany today. Everything that me and you've been talking about as we're going to go on the show. I don't think that they're going to go either route. I really don't. And I'm going to see what Joe has to say about it. And I'm really excited to have this conversation because I don't know. People know that we, like, talk to Joe all the time. And I don't know. It's just one of them things. It's like where you just let the goat do his thing and we just kind of get together. You know what I mean? And then we talk ball. So I'm excited to have this conversation. No, I am as well. And without further ado, we are going to bring in the legend, Joe Goodberry. What's happening,
SPEAKER_00:bro? What's going on, guys? It's good to talk to you again. I'm making my Santa Claus once a year round trip, seeing everyone, bringing these draft gifts and draft takes.
SPEAKER_02:For sure, brother. This is your time, man. This is Christmas. It is. Hey, look, he hit me one day. I forgot what he said. I said, man, I appreciate that. He's like, yeah, that's your one you get all year.
SPEAKER_00:That's why I remembered that. I said, I'm going to say I'm Santa Claus.
SPEAKER_02:I was like, thanks, Santa. You're so damn swell. Like, that's so amazing, bro. But yeah, man, how are you feeling tonight?
SPEAKER_00:I'm good. I have work today. So, you know, I just got out at six, did a thing with Lance McAllister, and then hopped on with you guys after I chilled with the kids, made them some quesadillas. And now I'm like, all right, let's go. Lock in.
SPEAKER_02:Nice. What are the toppings on the quesadillas, Joe? We got to know. Are you putting any kind of meat in there? Is it just the cheese? What are we doing?
SPEAKER_00:So the girls just want the cheese, but my son wants meat. We had chicken. He wanted turkey in there. So I was like, what, you want lunch meat turkey? All right, I'll throw it in there. But it works. Nah, anything works in quesadillas,
SPEAKER_02:bro, for sure. Kicking things off, Joe. So we just got... Kind of who's going to be coming to the combine. I don't know if you've seen the list or not. It's kind of out there on Twitter. But they have the official
SPEAKER_03:draft.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's gotten invited to the draft. I'll get it pulled up here. But before we get into that, Zim, if you wanted to actually ask him a question, I'll get that pulled up so I can show him that list of players there. I want to just start off and just come in hot on the whole topic. Like, you know, I saw your tweet probably has been about two weeks now where you say you think Bengals go Harmon, right? Mm-hmm. Now we're April 14th. We're getting really close to the draft. What are you feeling like right now? What's the temperature based off of these visits and all the information that you acquired since that time? Are you still harming?
SPEAKER_00:So I do this every year. About a month out, I try and put something out there that would make sense. Who do I think is going to be there? It's probably the hardest part about it, right? And then because I think I can narrow it down to five, six, seven players that would make sense to them, what they typically draft. Now they've got to be available, right? And to me, when I was doing that, it's like, all right, I think Walter Nolan's going to go top 15. I really like Walter Nolan. I think the teams will. Since then, you haven't heard that much heating up for him. It's been teams in the teens to the 20s bringing Walter Nolan in. So I'm like, okay, maybe Walter Nolan will be there. Maybe they won't have to start the run on Derek Harmon. But teams in the 20s are talking to Harmon. So would it be, you know, what range or what order will they have him in? But when I do this every year, and you guys probably deal with this as well, you will typically get some good texts or DMs of, you know, not so fast, buddy. Or, hey, you know, we like this guy or we've been talking on whatever it may be. It can be a lot of things. So sometimes it's just casting out there. Let's see what we can get from this. So I did get some good information on that. And I do think Harmon is still in the discussion. I would still have him in my top six, depending on how the board falls. But I think we got a bunch of guys to talk about tonight.
SPEAKER_02:So I've got the list pulled up here, Joe. Right now, for those at home, it's going to be Tyler Booker, Zim's guy, Jahad Campbell, Will Campbell, Abdul Carter, Will Johnson, Jackson Dart, apparently, as well. Of the teams that you see up here on this list, do you think any of them will realistically be taken by the Bengals?
SPEAKER_00:Sure. I think Tyler Booker has a chance because they've drafted guys like Andre Smith. They've drafted guys like Billy Price, Jackson Carman, Jonah Williams, guys who did not test or test well at all at the combine. Like it has not affected them. They rely on the tape when it comes to it. Now, last year gave us some hope that maybe they're going to go with some athleticism when they drafted Amarius Mims and Matt Lee. So hopefully they look past Tyler Booker because a guy of his profile typically does not pan out to be a plus level starter in the NFL. And it's all due to his athleticism. The surprise here, though, I think for, you know, do they go that way or not? I wonder if Josh Simmons, if they view him as a guard. I think Josh Simmons is great, but he's coming off a knee injury. I think Malachi Starks could be a pick for them. I think Michael Williams could be, Shamar Stewart, even though I'm not big on them. And then, of course, Jihad Campbell. Campbell is going to come down to his health. You hear things about both shoulders, not just the one currently. He had a full repair on the one, and he's got potentially a degenerative knee issue. that can put them into round two. We've seen these guys fall a full round when this happens in the draft. So where's that going to put Campbell? I don't know because Campbell on our spreadsheet is number two overall from the play
SPEAKER_02:score. How do you feel about Campbell? You know you love Campbell. When the Beast came out, I saw the knee scope in 2023. Joe knows this. I didn't feel any type of way. I feel like I don't know. That's not that uncommon for me. And I just feel like a torn labrum. I've seen so many guys just play through that. Even in high school, when I played, torn labrum isn't a big deal. You've seen Logan Wilson. You've seen T. Higgins. If you're a Bengals fan, you've seen them play through it. I will say this, and I even put this in our group chat. I started off Walter Nolan, and I also went, now I'm a jihadist is what they're calling it on the internet or whatever, right? But I have looked at this too. Since 2015, only six D tackles have been taken in the first round. And you factor in the fact that since 1994 is the last time the Bengals took a defensive tackle in the first round. So those two things right there, in my heart of hearts, I feel like they should do like a Walter Nolan or they should get a Jahad Campbell or something like that. But I just woke up today feeling like, man, this is maybe a safe way to do it. But all these tackle converts that I think have the potential, day one starting at guard, you think about Joe Burrow, I argue all day on the internet, Joe Burrow's never had a top 20 offensive line ever, six years later. You look at guys like Banks and you look at these guys that are there or the tackles that could fall to them. It's a cheap way to say, to supplement too. what happens where Orlando Brown starts to fall off a little bit, or what happens if Orlando Brown starts to ball out to a Pro Bowl level, and they don't want to pay it, then they take the left guard, so to speak, and then move him to left tackle. It's like a cheap, effective way to kind of do what I've been saying the whole time for Jaha Campbell's go-to for one. I just woke up today and just was like, I can't see them. As much as I want them to take Jaha Campbell, It is, for them, it's so out of the norm, and taking the tackle is super out of the norm. That's why I woke up thinking, like, I think that they're going to take an offensive tackle. Yeah, I think, like what Joe just said, it doesn't seem, with him not being a part of this list, Walter Nolan, you have to wonder if he's really a lock to go in the first round or the second round. I would take him at 17, but the guy that I'm looking at on this list, which obviously I think there's a lot of questions with a lot of these guys, but it's Will Johnson for me. He just worked out this morning, but who knows who was there, how things went. Will Johnson, to me, shouldn't even be anywhere near 17. And if he is, I just think that the Bengals, that position, I'm not as sold as other people on CTB. And some of our secondary from that perspective at the cornerback position, especially with Dex Hill, you talk about him going into a situation where we don't know if we're going to extend him in the future. And you're talking about a guy like Will Johnson being there in a corner class that isn't great. I just think that that's pretty good value. But I don't know if Will is even going to make it there because he's like, Joe, what are you thinking? Do you think Will is even going to be there
SPEAKER_00:at 17? I don't think he'll be there. I still think he's the top corner for a lot of teams. We'll see if Jaday Barron is up there. And I'm not considering Travis Hunter, obviously. We don't know what position he'll play. Do you
SPEAKER_02:think
SPEAKER_00:Barron
SPEAKER_02:can play anything outside of nickel
SPEAKER_00:in the NFL? I think he's a nickel and there's nothing wrong with that. That's going to play a lot. I think some, some teams may say, yeah, we'll try them outside. And I think teams, we just saw Kyler Gordon get an extension, right? And Kyler Gordon was coming out. It was like, he's a nickel. He's a slot. Well then the bears waste two and a half years of him playing outside before they realize, oh yeah, he's a slot. Oh, he's a real good one. When you get them inside, I think today Baron is going to be the same thing. We're probably dealing with the same thing with Dax Hill, but I think Will Johnson is more of an off zone. Let him face the quarterback and read what's going on and let him jump routes and I'm not sure he's a great fit. So I wonder how they're going to view that. Do they just say he's a top 10 guy? We'll figure out our defense around a guy we think is a top 10 player because, I mean, they don't have a lot of high-end defenders. They're going to remake this team around the next few guys they acquire more than likely on the defensive side. But at the same time, not running that 40, I think, hurts them a little bit. They typically draft fast corners. And if Will Johnson has speed questions and now fitment questions, I think they may let him go. He's actually 36th on our board on our draft spreadsheet.
SPEAKER_02:Let me let me ask you this. If they were to drive well, Johnson is the bigger. I know the Bengals get attached to drafting corners in the first round, but who goes?
SPEAKER_00:I didn't hear the very end of that. I
SPEAKER_02:was saying who goes to the bench. That's the question that I'm
SPEAKER_00:right. And it's probably Taylor Britt. It's probably Cam because he's just so inconsistent. Maybe it would be a fire lit under him. Maybe you trade Cam Taylor-Britt. Maybe you get back a fourth-round pick during the draft because I still think he's startable. For whatever reason, he's got to get his head locked in again and get to the point he can be. But we're talking, hey, Cam Taylor-Britt for three years now has graded very well PFF for man coverage. That's what Al Golden does. And number two, contract year. These guys typically play in the NFL. They're very best in this year. So there's opportunity here for Cam to really ball out this year.
SPEAKER_02:No, for sure. In terms of the edge rushers at 17, is there anybody
SPEAKER_00:that you like in particular? For edge rushers? You know, I love Mike Green and I love James Pierce as edge rushers. And both guys are a little bit different. Pierce is a little bit longer, a little more angular. I think Green can run around the circumference of a dime. His agility is crazy. And I would like that. Green plays both sides. Pierce plays both sides. It would fit well with Hendrickson. I think they could be centerpieces for you. But at the same time, Green has character flags that you've got to figure out in his history. Pierce wasn't well liked at his own team in Tennessee. He was considered an outsider. Hard to coach are some of the things you're reading. And his consensus has gone from like 12th ranked overall to out of the first round so is he now a second round pick we've seen pierce i think it was matt miller for me it's been gave bangles to pierce at 49 at one point so if it's not those guys if i can't have them i don't want shamar stewart or michael williams at that spot i want a guy that can rush the passer now i hope he can rush the passer because he's got long arms and he's athletic we did that was miles murphy we're still waiting in year three for miles murphy to put that together and maybe he will but can you do that again can you draft those guys again I'm not into it. The next guy for me would be Donovan Izaraku out of Boston College. And he's considered more of a late 20s pick. I think he's good. I think he's super good. You can watch one game and I put it on Bengals on the brain. He had 14 pressures and three sacks in this game. It's a fun game to watch.
SPEAKER_02:No, I think Donovan is definitely my guy for sure. I think especially in a draft where you only have six picks, you could move back. Get him. I'm with you, man. I'm not on the Shamar Stewart train at all. Mikel Williams. I think the Bengals need somebody that's going to be instant impact. We can't take these chances on guys that may develop into something in year two, year three. We need somebody that's going to make an instant impact, especially given the circumstances surrounding Trey Hendrickson. Before we get to Zoom's question, I just want to ask you, with the Trey Hendrickson situation, because now it's Jason LaConfora also saying, GMs and executives are expecting or predicting that the Bengals could move Trey if they don't get the extension done. How do you see that situation kind of playing out with Trey Hendrickson?
SPEAKER_00:I still think he wants to be here. I still think the Bengals want him. So... That's the first step, right, of things usually work out. Number two is the Bengals are notoriously hard to trade with because they value guys over what another team's going to say. Look, he's turning 31. We have to give him a new deal. We're not going to give you what you think he's worth. And we've seen this for years for Bengals players that were like, hey, you can trade this guy, that guy. They never get the offer because they value a guy here. And teams are like, let us get a discount. You're not going to extend him. It never lines up. It's why they don't make trades. So I still think the draft is going to come and go. Nothing's going to happen. And then the summertime is going to come around and they're going to come to an agreement. Sounds like the Bengals really low balled him with a one year,$25 million deal. Not sure what you guys heard, but that's what I heard. And if that's the case, he just wants a fair offer. It sounds like 30 to 32 million multiple years, maybe some guaranteed into year two would be nice since he hasn't had that in two contracts yet. The original one and his extension. And if they can move a little bit towards that number, I think a deal will happen.
SPEAKER_02:I want to talk about like, it kind of piggybacks off of this. It's not, I guess it's not really, you know, a question, but don't you see a scenario though, like later on, because of the beginning of what you said, the two parties like each other, right? Like Trey likes the Bengals, Bengals like Trey. They're just far apart. Maybe on the, on the, on the length of the contract is what I've heard. Right. Yeah. Don't you see a scenario where later on, like the guy, like say they do draft a guy like Pierce or somebody like that. And then later on, I think it's like the teammates and everybody coming up to him and saying, Hey, like Trey, like we kind of need you, bro. And they got this guy, James Pierce on the other side. Like, for example, like, you know, I'm just throwing out a name and you know, we, we talked about this. Oh, she cut off. I was saying, we talked about this on the last show. If I'm the Bengals, what will make me trade them? Like, there's nothing that makes me want to, like, there's no reason for me to trade them. I just don't get that
SPEAKER_00:part. Especially if you're trying to win, right? Are we not here trying to win a Super Bowl this year? And then everyone's going to say, even everyone in that building, sure, they didn't fill every hole in free agency. They didn't, you know, pack the roster and squeeze the cap as much as possible this year like they could have. But they still think with Joe Burrow and their weapons, they got a chance to make a run for it. You don't make that run without Trey Hendrickson ending a few games and that they need that because they're already a bottom 10 or so pass rush. You can't let Trey go and expect that to change. So yeah, you get Walter Nolan, Derek Harmon and say, Trey, we've got some interior pressure here or not. I mean, you haven't had that in a while that this is going to help you. You get Mike Green on the other side. That's going to help you down. Vanessa Rocco on the other side, Ashton Jaloti, whoever pick your DN. This DN class is crazy. Actually, we're talking about the D tackle class. The DN class is crazy.
SPEAKER_02:That was my next question. I was going to ask you is forget pick 17. I think 17, like it could go so many different ways. Tell me about guys. Like later on, we, we talked about, I'm sorry, my microphone. We talk with guys like Tony Pauline and all these, you know, like draft gurus and different things like all this time. And we never really got into like the nitty gritty of who are the guys because the class is deeper. Just like I feel like the tackle class is kind of deep. Who are the guys like later on, like rounds four or five that justify you not taking an edge at 17?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so I just pull up the edge sheet for your honor spreadsheet here, which will be available for everyone this Wednesday. And so we've got. Ashton Jaloti with a first-round grade, okay? And Jaloti is currently 96 on the consensus out of Louisville. And if we're talking third, fourth round, if we're talking between that pick, 81, and was it 119 in the fourth round, I mean, I'm all over that. This is a guy that plays powerful, can kick inside the defensive tackle, is athletic. He's a little stubby, but whatever, he runs through your face. He's highly productive and athletic. That's what you want to look for in this situation. There's other guys too. Lane and Jackson supposed to be like a second rounder. Princely Uman Milan supposed to be a second rounder, but in the third, fourth round, Antoine Powell Ryland is supposed to be a fifth round pick out of Virginia tech, super productive edge rusher. That's got a bag of moves can run every single thing from a, from a cross chop to a spin move to every, every, every other move you're going to see. And he's a speed edge rusher. I think he's, that Brayden Swinson's going to go round two at LSU. Maybe round three, 73rd on the consensus right now, so maybe he gets to 81. Josiah Stewart's supposed to be like a fourth-round pick out of Michigan, and that's a power, smaller guy, kind of in the mold of like a Robert Mathis, Elvis Dumerville, if you remember, about 6'1", 250, but with power and will run through a blocker against the run, which is usually a good sign. Then you've got small school guys like David Walker, Central Arkansas. He's going to be 25. Well, you put on David Walker's Central Arkansas tape, and he was at the Senior Bowl too, and he looked good there. But his tape is probably the craziest tape of anyone because he's just absolutely killing these guys. They're going to be future lawyers and doctors and whatever else they're going to do. He's absolutely murdering them. And I think Jack Sawyer is going to be a third, late third round pick. So people, a lot of Bengals fans or Ohio State fans, what about Jack Sawyer? I think he's going to go later than what you think because of his size and because he doesn't have a trait really to hang his hat on other than trying hard, which is great. We like that, but you know, I think he's more of a third, maybe even fourth round pick.
SPEAKER_02:I actually, I like JT more than Jack. So
SPEAKER_00:I heard a lot of people saying that. What are your thoughts on JT? I think he's better completely. I think he's a better player versus the run, more consistent player versus the run. I think he's got more power in his hands. I think he's a little bit more athletic, a little more bendy. I doubt he just flashed more often. I watched them together and didn't, you know, at first I was like, all right, Jack Sawyer. And then I'm like, oh, they got other guys. Let's watch Ty Hamilton too. You know, let's watch JT also. And I thought JT flashed much more often. In fact, if I pull up my sheet here, JT gets a 78.2 score for us, which means he's got future starter upside. where Jack Sawyer gets a 71.4. So anyone under a 73 for us has had about a 10% hit rate over the last six years of doing this. So the hit rate for Jack Sawyer to become a good starter is pretty low. It's more than likely he's just a complimentary piece.
SPEAKER_02:The other position I was going to look at, you know, like I said, I'm a big Jihad Campbell fan, right? And I think that the Bengals could change their whole entire identity. I think that they can change what they do and get a leader and not a piece. Like, I feel like a lot of these guys that we're talking about at the beginning of the draft, there's just a piece on the team. And we're watching all of these teams in our division, right? Go get their Ray Lewis. Go get their T.J. Watt. Go get their leader of the defense. I feel like Jahad Campbell represents more than the position. Say the Bengals don't go that path, which would be a little rare for them to go linebacker first round. What are the linebackers later on that you feel comfortable taking with the Pratt situation being what it is? I look at it like I'm not relying on Oren Burks, Mehta, who I look at like a special teamer, Shaka Hayward. He's a good guy like, you know, to replace like some of the guys like, yeah, like a bocce. Exactly. And I mean, here we are. We have one Logan Wilson coming off of a season where he just missed six games. Like to me, it's it's a high priority position.
SPEAKER_00:I agree with you. And especially it's kind of frustrating. We don't have resolution on guys like Jermaine Pratt right now. Right. Either trade him, cut him, whatever it may be. They're probably waiting to see what they get out of this draft class. It's a weird draft class at linebacker, especially for our process. Like I said, we love Jihad Campbell. I think on tape, Campbell is amazing. I don't think he's an edge rusher. Some people try to sell it like, hey, you can also rush the passer. Listen, if he's rushing the passer, you need to find some better pass rushers. He's a good blitzer, but that means you probably need a defensive end, right? So draft the defensive end. But Campbell is just nasty, fast, physical, super smart. I did a whole video on him where he's calling out motions, calling out checks and everything before they even happen. He's calling, hey, the tight end is about to come in motion and block you at the end. He's going to leave you unblocked and bring the tight end over. And he's telling his DN before the offense is even set to line up. So I want that. And we're talking about a super young dude that was 20 on tape and a rare athlete with great size. I would love John Campbell if he's healthy. Other than that, though, there's only one guy I really even like, and there's probably only one other linebacker that goes in round two, and then everyone else is probably afterwards, and that's Carson Schlesinger out of UCLA. Schlesinger is a former walk-on that was killing their plays in practice. I was reading a story from Chip Kelly talking about, like, who is this walk-on killing our plays, like a Rudy situation? And they're like, no, it's not that he knows our plays. He's reacting, and he's reacting faster than everyone. You flip on the tape of UCLA. And you're like, oh, he's getting to the hole before the linebackers do. This dude's a freak athlete. Plus, he's mentally a super fast processor. Plus, though, he's patrolling that middle of the field and the deep third of the field in Tampa, too, covering deep and making plays on the ball. Yeah, I think Schlesinger is the man. And even though he's a walk-on, that's typically lower pedigree. I think his tape was excellent. And then after that, there's a lot of good linebackers, but a lot of them are pieces and parts, whether it's– To me, I like next on our spreadsheet, it lists guys like Teddy Buchanan and Cody Simon, who are supposed to be fifth, sixth round picks. Those are the next two highest scoring guys. And then Danny Stutzman out of Oklahoma, who's supposed to be a third or fourth round pick. So where's the guys that are in the third round that are supposed to go? Is it Chris Paul? He's 99th on the consensus board. Is that more fourth round for them? And I think Chris Paul is a fun player out of Kentucky Tech. He's great against the run, strong tackler, physical tackler, his voice grip hands. Demetrius Knight, who's 25 years old. He looks damn near 30. He's a good player. I just told him that in a text earlier today. I'm telling you. Demetrius Knight, though, is good on tape, but he's 80th on the consensus. So, again, are we talking third round? And when you're that old, you wonder what the upside is. So it's a weird class. Everyone keeps saying, like, Jack Kaiser, fifth, sixth round. Sure, but I think there's better there. How do
SPEAKER_02:you feel about, like, linebacker? Because I feel like the value of a linebacker I almost feel like it's similar to running back. You can get one in the fourth, fifth round. I don't feel like you have to take one at 17 to get a linebacker. How do you feel about linebacker and the value of it within the draft, especially with the needs that we have this season?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, they tend to end up being like running back a lot. And I think safety is similar. Those three positions are losing value a little bit. You typically don't want to draft those guys in the first round unless they're special, which I, why we're even talking about Campbell because John's special. People are writing in there, Smeal Mondin and things like that. It was a great cover guy. You get that guy in the fifth round, fourth round, third round, whatever it is, you can find complimentary pieces that maybe this guy's really good against the run. Maybe that guy's really good in coverage, but you like to have one good linebacker. And we have that in Logan Wilson. Now I think Logan's still a good player. And then you've, Maybe piece that other position together with a guy in the fourth round and Oren Burks and maybe even Jermaine Pratt stays for another year. Who knows? And you get him back with Al Golden. Maybe they figure it out and maybe they make amends because now you're cutting them. It's going to be pretty late for him to find a job and get a starting spot. So he should embrace a role and embrace more of a rotation. And maybe he's just an early down run defender. And you draft a guy like Smeal Mondin who can cover.
SPEAKER_02:Right. The guard position, bro. I feel like that Carson. Brunner. I like Carson a lot. I just don't think he'll make it to 49. Oh,
SPEAKER_00:Carson Schlesinger, my bad. Yeah,
SPEAKER_02:yeah, yeah. Carson Schlesinger. I think that Colts at 44, and because there aren't any linebackers, and in the press situation, I literally think that they're holding on Pratt just because they have an intention of getting a linebacker, and they're going to do the Andy Dalton to Joe Burrow thing where as soon as the draft is over, after they draft him.
UNKNOWN:Yep.
SPEAKER_02:Then they're going to be like, yeah, Pratt, you can go at that point. I really feel like they don't have any other strategy other than the fact that they don't have any other answers. The free agent linebacker class is horrible. And they're just like, yeah, if we get one, then we'll let you go, Pratt. But if we don't, we'll just keep you around.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I think it's tough because even if he gets to 49, it's funny. As I'm saying this, Chuck in the comments is about to say the same thing. Now you don't get a guard on the first round, right? And Tate Ratledge is still there. Donovan Jackson, whoever, Arianti Ursary is still there. And a bunch of guys they brought in at line say TJ Sanders is still there at defensive tackle. Probably the last upgrade from Chris Jenkins, McKinley Jackson, who just drafted last year. If you don't get TJ Sanders at 49 also, then you just might as well not draft the defensive tackle until the fifth, sixth round. Cause there's just going to be a rotational piece anyways, behind Chris Jenkins and McKinley Jackson. So yeah, It changes it up. And then say you do that. Say it starts Calvin Banks, TJ Sanders. You go trenches. Well, now third round, I want to get a safety. Is Andrew Makuba still there? Is Kevin Winston Jr. still there? What does that look like? And then now we've kicked linebacker down the road. And you do these mocks, right? And you're like, what position don't I want to fill this time around? Because you're not going to get them all.
SPEAKER_02:Right. Yeah, I completely agree with you there, Joe. Guard. Bengals are in a horrible position right now at guard, in my opinion. which guards appeal to you. And they also need a guy that can also possibly play swing tackle. As you talk about Mims being hurt, there may need somebody to be able to play both of those spots. What are your feelings in terms of guards? Are you taking two? Are you only taking one in this draft?
SPEAKER_00:Listen, I would take two if you could, if the right guys are there, I'm, All for protecting Burrow and trying to put up 40 points if we can do it. You know what I mean? I don't expect this defense to magically get better in 2026. I think it'll be better. What I should say is I don't expect it to be magically elite, right? All of a sudden, no, we're leaning on this defense. Like, you just look at the talent level they have. Even if they spent all six picks on that defensive side, you would say that, man, the Eagles last year would still, you know, outrace them in terms of talent on the defensive side. So they're still missing that stuff. So... If it's up to me, and the opportunity presents itself, and like I said, a Kelvin Banks is still there at 17 and I think could play a left guard. I think he'd actually be a great guard, maybe a Pro Bowl-level guard before he kicks off the tackle if he ever gets to that point. He's 20 years old on tape, started all three years, five-star recruit with great size, great wingspan, plays with power and strength, put on that Michigan game, and he's blocking Mason Graham and Kenneth Grant because they're sliding their protection over, and he's holding those guys up really well. and playing with great leverage. I would love Kelvin Banks at 17. And if you do that, and then you come back, and in the third round, in the second round, in the fourth round, Charles Grant's still there in the third. Ozzie Trapeo's still there. Jonah Seven, Nia's still there in the third round. Whatever it may be, I'm in. If you want to do it, sure up the guard spot. Let's go. Put up a wall in front of Burrow. Let him pick. As good as Burrow is, and as good as he is under pressure, his numbers when he is kept clean are absolutely crazy. Keep him clean 5% more of the time, and he's going to win MVP.
SPEAKER_02:I think 90% of the NFL goes off as a line. I think because we've had such a bad history with the whole way, Jake Fisher, Jackson Carman, all that. I think it makes Bengals fans a little bit reluctant to even pull that trigger because I think that's what I said. I woke up today and I was like, Why are we really fighting this? If I have a premium... We took the chance on Mims, said forget the injury stuff. Took a chance and took the best player available. And... If Banks is the best player available, I'm not mad at that. And I'm still coming back to that position, like third, fourth round, regardless, either way. And that guy's going to have to battle, I guess, Lucas Patrick or whatever. That guy's going to have to battle, you know what I mean? Or maybe Brandon Sher, like these rumors, whatever is on standby. I don't know. But regardless, I just think that you can't go wrong doing that, honestly. The Jahar Campbell stuff for me... is kind of to your point where I don't think the defense is magically going to get better. I love Walter Nolan to death. I don't think he changes. They
SPEAKER_00:got to become elite players in order to change it, right? And that ain't happening as rookies typically.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly. And I'm just like, what's a guy? Because remember, we're losing probably our best playmaker in Mike Hilton. So what's a guy, and I know a lot of people are like, whoa, yeah, like that's a guy that was giving you all the run blitzes and making the most impactful plays. Him, and you could argue maybe CCB with interceptions and playmaking ability. So what's a guy that can impact those positions and what positions we need? That's where Jahai Campbell comes from to me. It's because you can address that. And now you kind of have like, even if he isn't great year one, weak sideline backer, have him chase down mirror linebackers. quarterback, mobile quarterbacks. And then eventually he becomes like this thing that everybody wishes that they drafted. But that's the, that's the thing to me. It's like, if they're not going to do that, it's gotta like that. And I guess that brings me to, I want to ask both of y'all my next question. If you could formulate without even, I guess we'll have a chance to do, but what would you do if you had your ideal, you know, Draft, if everything went the way that without seeing the names, like how would it go? Like, what would the order go? Would it go offensive line first guard neck? I mean, you know, tackle first defense to tackle. Like, how would you even do that? Well, I would say for me, it would be defensive interior swing, tackle second round edge rusher third round.
SPEAKER_00:For me, I would. I struggle with this question because I try not to look at positions, right? For me, I want playmakers. You give me more playmakers, who's going to make a play on third down? Trey Hendrickson, right? Who's going to make a play on third down on offense when I need it? Who's going to make it in the red zone? Who's going to make the play when I need one made? We're down 10 points in the second quarter already. There goes Jamar for 60 yards, right? Like you need playmakers. You need guys that take the game over. And watching playoffs, I come to this conclusion every single year. Your players are winning these games. It's become like basketball, where you're giving it to your stars and you're just letting them roll. And these other dudes that are out there on the field that are okay players, whatever, they don't matter as much. And I know that guy can get beat. I know Hakeem Adeneji will get beat on third down, and it'll kill you. But who's he getting beat by? Aaron Donald, Chris Jones, they're getting beat by their stars. So I want as many stars as possible. I don't care what position they play. That's why I'm in on Nick Imanwari at 17. Because give me a 21-year-old that's a freak athlete that they called Nick the Eraser at South Carolina that said he knew their entire defense was lining guys up as he was 18 years old playing there. That sounds great. Give me that. I'd love
SPEAKER_02:that. He's one of the best tacklers I've seen come out of the draft in years, too. Somebody from his school talked about this too recently and the same person i think spoke on hobson's show not too long ago uh as well too um i mean not hobson oh shit horde uh but uh but on there though like his tackling ability like all the agility all the stuff that we were looking for i think he has a lot of that stuff to me i only only reason i brought up positions is because i feel like I would hate for them to just say we need a position because we failed to fill it in free agency. And I think as a result, it's kind of made us look at like we're forced to look at guard. There's nothing you can do about it. You're forced to look at guard. For me, I'm forced to look at linebacker. I don't think what they have at linebacker right now, I'm assuming Pratt isn't on the roster. I just don't– I don't think that that can work, and I think teams would exploit it. You're kind of forced to look at running back, too, if you're looking at Piran as just a pass protector. And then you see all of these– I love Jaden Blue later in the draft. I like all these different running backs that I'm just like, I got to get one of those, too, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, because it's such a strong running back class, and I think it's a strong guard class, which is why I consider taking two of them. I think the best classes this year are guard– running back, defensive end. And to me, like, okay, take those guys. And if there's value there, if that means I can wait and get a guard in round three and a defensive end in round two and a running back in round five, then fine. But also when I look at it, I'm like, if I can have the top player at a corner, I don't care. If Travis Hunter was still there at 17, I'd take him. So to me, it's less about position and more about give me dudes. I need more dudes on this roster. I'm with you. It's about impact,
SPEAKER_02:and that's what the Bengals, I feel like, have been lacking since they drafted Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase and T. Higgins. They haven't had guys that are impact players that have come in, been all pros, pro bowlers. We can't even get a pro bowler. Outside of it being like a layup pick, like a Jamar Chase or something like that, they've just got to take somebody that's just good. I'm tired of them kind of sitting on their hands, waiting for guys to fall to them, and then kind of going with plan C and a guy that's going to have to kind of develop over the years. We need guys that can step in right away and have some sort of impact. So I'm with Joe on that one. Joe, I want to ask you. You just muted again. Joe, I want to ask you this too. Everybody get your pen and paper out. You say you're going to drop this out on Wednesday, right? Give me your top sleepers that you think are under the radar that everybody should be paying attention to that possibly like how you just told us about the edge rusher that you had the first round grade on from Louisville. Give me your under the radar guys that you just believe that there's absolutely no reason that people aren't talking about them.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. So like I said, Jahad Campbell's number two on the board. He's 18th on the consensus. Pretty big discrepancy there. Nick Emanwar, he's 23rd on the consensus. He's sixth on our board. Mike Green, 18th on the consensus. He's eighth on our board. It gets even crazier though. TJ Sanders, who I talked about, 57th on the consensus ranking. He is 10th on our board. Even further than that, the biggest gap we have ever had in six years of doing this On 14th on our board, okay, is a safety from Wisconsin named Hunter Wohler. He is 201st on the consensus ranking. Hunter Wohler is a dude. Go watch. I made a post about this because the discrepancy is the biggest we've ever had. We never had basically 180 points swing on this. Dude's got elite athleticism, elite production. They said he was the heart and soul of their defense and intelligence and character. And when you watch him at safety, he's more of a strong safety, cover the slot, cover the tight end, makes a bunch of plays on the ball, makes a bunch of tackles. Dude is good. And he's supposed to go in the seventh round, sixth round, seventh round. Like I keep doing these mocks and grabbing them in the sixth before anyone else can. But yeah, there's other big gaps too. I would guess Jaden Higgins is 47th on the consensus. He's 20th for us wide receiver. We really don't need that. Jared Wilson, the center from Georgia is 81st on the consensus. Bengals pick 81st. We have him 22nd. on our board, and I think he's got the size to play guard. I think he can play guard. Harold Fannin Jr. at tight end. Bengals may take a tight end, too. We kind of want to replace Eric All, but Harold Fannin's 82nd on the consensus. He is 23rd on our board.
SPEAKER_02:Wow.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Well, Joe, we can't let you get out of here without doing a little quick mock draft, so we are going to put you on the clock, my guy, with the PFF mock draft. We'll do a quick Three-round mock draft. This is the board right now. You've got Walter Nolan, Malachi Starks.
SPEAKER_00:Are we drafting as the Bengals, or are we doing who I would take? Who you would take. Who you would take. Okay. In this scenario, then I'm taking Walter Nolan. All right. I'm with you there. I would consider Green. I'd consider Malachi Starks. But, you know, there's a little bit of questions on both there. And I think getting a safety later, I'd rather take the premium position at D-tackle.
SPEAKER_02:I haven't heard Omar Norman Lott's name at all today. That's a guy I like.
SPEAKER_00:He's got some character stuff, bro. He's got
SPEAKER_02:some character stuff with
SPEAKER_00:him. And a knee issue as well. He's only played about 280 snaps at most in a season, so I don't know where he's going to get drafted, but he's good. His flashes are crazy, as good as anyone else. Kevin
SPEAKER_02:Winston at this school right down the street from my school. So he's like a neighborhood guy that everybody loves around here, too. His injury was a little cautionary. I've been told by his family and friends that I need to let everybody know that it's not as serious as everybody made it seem, too. So if you're a Kevin Winston fan or whatever, make sure you keep an eye on that guy. I had a first-round grade on him before the injury.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, Winston would have been a first-rounder. And I think the injury happened, so people kind of lost track of him a little bit. But him coming out at the Pro Day at Penn State, running a 4-5-1 or 4-5, depending on who you talk to, just six months removed from the ACL surgery is crazy. I think you buy low here at pick 49. You take Kevin Winston Jr., who I want ace here, and then say, we're getting another guy who I think would be a first-round pick in most drafts. And then... The only heartbreaker there is I really like Andrew Makuba, and he's still there in round three. But it is what it is. You know who is still there, though, is Tate Ratlidge, who I think is a plug-and-play guard. We've got a close-to-first-round grade on him. Where is he actually on my sheet? Let me look it up.
SPEAKER_02:Is that realistic, though? Are we
SPEAKER_00:going to see it?
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:He's 42nd on our board. I think he goes top 50, 55. So let's see what other interior offensive linemen are here, just so we can maybe try and keep it a little bit more realistic, see if there's anyone else that grades really well. Like I said, Jared Wilson grades super high for us. And I think he can play guard, no problem, because Wilson isn't small. He's a big center. He's 6'3", 3'10". I would take, if we want to be realistic and say he's still there, Jared Wilson, like I said, 22nd on our board. We're getting three guys who I think are first-round quality players.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, sir. That is why he is the legend, the draft guru. You're supposed to put him in a grinder, bro. You're supposed to make him go seven rounds. What was this thing? I mean... I mean... Seven rounds, I don't know, man. Seven rounds is a little much, bro. We don't even have a seven-round pick, do we? Which one? Yeah, we don't have a seven-round. We traded it. But he was flying through it. Look, so we've been doing a fan series where we let a fan come on. He was a little, he was talking a little bit, but you see, Joe just, he went through those picks really damn quick. I thought you were going to put him through the grind there and really put his knowledge to the test right here. He's got his sheet up and shit. We could have went six.
SPEAKER_00:I know Zim loves spreadsheets, too, so I can't wait to send it to him
SPEAKER_02:personally. Love a good spreadsheet, right, Joe? We had some funny, yeah, like we got some good stuff that we've talked about over the years. Yeah. Yeah, we've had some good conversations, I'll tell you that. Some good battles. No doubt. But, Joe, so before you go, Give me your prediction, updated prediction. Who are the Bengals drafting at 17 and who are the Bengals drafting at 49?
SPEAKER_00:So I still think Herman's going to be in that discussion. If it was me and I was thinking about it and I had to narrow it down, I'm going to say let's hope Kelvin Banks is still there. Let's hope Walter Nolan, Derek Herman, Nicky Manwari, and Malachi Starks, right? If I'm thinking the other guys may have injuries or character issues, let's put them on a sub board. It's hard to predict them to take Jihad Campbell or Mike Green or anyone like that. So I say those five. we got a decent chance. Let me pick one of them. Are they going to throw a curve ball and take a graze able? They don't typically take small school guys in round one, right? So we're talking big guys. And I think Kelvin banks would have like similar issue to Mario Smith. Mims would have been a top six picks in this class. Why? Because they're not guys that are that size, right? There are no, no tackles this big. I think you get the top guard. In my opinion is Kelvin banks at 17, but I'm going to say, if I got to predict, I think he's gone. And I think the, Selection at this point now is Walter Nolan, that they take the power three tech that they have not had since Geno Atkins. Typically, when we talk about these athletic three techs like Elijah Cansey, Johnny Newton last year, they don't have the power. Typically, we're like, you know what? They'll become better against Ron. I ain't really worried about it. Let's get the pass rush. Let's get the pass rush going. Newton or I'm sorry, Walter Nolan is the opposite. He is powerful. He grades well as a run defender. He gets under dudes with leverage and strength. He's got to develop more as a pass rusher right now, and I think he will. He's got all the signs that he will in his flashes, so I would take him at 17. So I'm saying, as of now, I think Walter Nolan is the pick. Oh, you asked for round two also then. So if I'm going to do that, then I think in round two they go offensive line. I think it's Jonah Sabanaya out of Arizona, and I'm hoping I'm pronouncing his name correctly. And I think he's a tackle that has played some guard as well. He is 21 years old, tested better than expected. That's typically a good sign. You've played for three years. You've tested well, and you're 21. Typically, those guys go a little bit high, but his tape is clunky at times. He doesn't always know where the second-level guy is. Where's that linebacker? Oh, there he is. Let me reach out for him. He falls on the ground a little bit more than I'd like to see. But again, when you're 20 on tape and you're 330 pounds, typically that– It looks like that. So I'm not against it. I think his upside is really high. And I would say they start off going trenches, de-tackle, offensive guard.
SPEAKER_02:Joe, where can everybody go? One last question, Joe. I feel like I got to ask you this. Are the Bengals going to still take a receiver?
SPEAKER_00:I'm going to say no. I mean, and that's probably the more rare than them actually taking a receiver, right? We feel like two out of three years, they're pretty much taking a receiver and doubling up at times. I'm going to say no. I think that... If they're taking a skill position, tight end, running back.
SPEAKER_02:Joe, where can everybody check out your stuff? What time is your show? And let them know if they've been in Iraq, where to follow you at.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, on Twitter, at Joe Goodberry, on X, whatever you call it. And on the First Star Media YouTube page, every Tuesday and Friday is Bengals on a Brain. It's about a half-hour show, but I sometimes stretch it to an hour just watching tape, breaking down data, whatever it may be, discussions, whatever the... topic of the week is and we dive in as deep as we can
SPEAKER_02:well joe we appreciate having you on brother um hopefully we get what we want out of this draft with the bingos getting an impact player we appreciate you uh once again for coming on we got to do this more often bro for sure i'm down yes sir so much man yo who day who day That was Joe Goodberry, the legend, the analyst coming on, talking draft, bro. Like, he's on the Mount Rushmore of just draft people in general. I feel like draft Twitter back in the day, I feel like you can't talk about draft Twitter without Joe Goodberry. And that's outside of the Bengals itself. I mean, like you said, he was just ripping them here and there, talking about everybody, which sucked. You saw who he landed on at the end, though, right? I'm not mad. Remember, I was a Nolan-er before you were even born. You see what I'm saying? You were a Nolan-er. That's what I'm like, bro. I was doing yard work, and this man, Zen, was telling me on Walter Nolan for like an entire hour. And I was not going to lie. I was sitting there like, bro, if they take this tackle, that means that Chris Jenkins was just a wasted pick. And you were like, no, bro, he's going to have 300 snaps where he can come in and do his thing. And so as I got more. When I found out he was better against the run, and I was like, shit, give me 500 snaps. I told you. I was like, bro, that thing about him not being good against the run is like made up. I don't know who made that up. I think people were trying to put him in that hole. You know what I mean? Like some of those- You're a Kalijah Cansey, like Joe said. You're a Kalijah Cansey, Johnny Newton type of guy. You can't be good against the run. And it's like, nah, he's from- Now, I'm not saying he's this guy. So hear me clearly. But he's from that Geno Atkins mode where I can pass rush and I can stop the run. Stylistically, from that standpoint, I think he could do both. I think he does make it so McKinley Jackson- Can play his true position, too. I think McKinley Jackson is in a true nose. I think he has the ability to get off ball and be able to go and rush the pass. And he's got a real quick first step. I learned a lot about McKinley Jackson this past season. I think Chris Jenkins will probably take on a lot more of like. they would just have to two gap a lot of stuff. They're not going to be able to single up and have this, uh, a prototypical nose. So then stylistically I'm thinking like, well, how does this, you know, like, how does this go? And I think you can make it work. It's, it's not the Eagles overnight, but the concept of stacking defensive tackles on top of defensive tackles, as far as your depth chart goes, I think that that you can't go wrong with that. Um, Yeah, I mean, he's got the 10.9% pass rush running rate. The tackles are there. He's like one of the top people in terms of tackle average. He's ranked third in the class. When it comes to his sacks in terms of standard deviation, he's near the top because you've got to have someone that's consistent as well. Talking about the pressures, he's got it. Quarterback hits, he's got it. I mean, to me, he is one of– the top defensive tackles in this class you talk about the pressure percentage run stop percentage he had a 14% run stop percentage in 2022 12% he's like this is double digits and like double digits in terms of that run percentage that's very good 13% you know he is near at the top of this defensive tackle class when it comes to that and we're talking about including nose tackles, right? That's what nose tackles are supposed to do. They're supposed to shed blocks, stop the run. He's able to do that. He's got the pass rush production from that standpoint as well. He ranks fourth in that in the entire class. So, like, when you're looking for someone that can do both, he does them at a very high level, and he's giving you that instant impact, and he's got the assortment of pass rush moves. Like, that's one of the things with some of these guys that we've taken. They may have the athleticism and stuff like that, but they don't have any moves. And it's like, bro, like if all you can do is bull rush me and you don't have a spin move, you don't have like a swim, you don't have anything else other than that. It's like this is the league, man. Like we we looking for some moves like like Goodberry said, like when you get into this bag and it's you versus the other person. Walter Nolan is one of those guys like Aaron Donald in the fourth quarter. I'm trying to get into my bag like Ant at the end of the game, and I'm about to hit you with some of them moves. I got moves. Now, if you ain't got no bag like Jalen Brown with the left hand, I don't– that's the only thing, man. But I think there's different ways that you can kind of go about it, though, at the end of the game. I think Walter Nolan will be a great pick, and I think he is somebody I think that– I like it when they go against the norm. So, like, to me, it wouldn't be– like I said, only six guys since– I forgot what year I said on there have been– have been de-tackles and been taken in the first round. It will go against the norm. I still think that they probably go offensive. You talking about tackle or guard? Yeah, tackle. Not a guard in the first round. It would be a tackle convert. So, like, you would have a guy that plays for, like, year one. Swing tackle. Swing tackle. Somebody that can play both. No, a convert that you're going to start a tackle. Not a swing that... You just went out. No, like, a guy that comes in year one. Not a swing. He's starting at guard, but he has the ability to go to
SPEAKER_03:tackle.
SPEAKER_02:To play tackle. Yeah. Yeah, so... So, yeah, like a convert guy that you come in year one and he can play guard and then he's the person that takes over for Orlando Brown when Orlando Brown gets a little older in the tooth and then you just– or longer in the tooth and then you swap him out. I think that that's what– my gut tells me that that's what they go with and I'm not mad at that. And the rationale behind it is that you will then come back with a loaded class– with a bunch of edge guys, a bunch of D tackle guys, and you could go get and supplement it for like a guy, like he said, you could go get JT later on, or you can go get like these different guys that you do like later on, like the kid from Arkansas. There's a lot of guys that I think can rush the passer, like later on that are pieces that you could put as part of the rotation. The difference with the beginning of it by saying Walter Nolan is great. And I think that's awesome. but he's a piece and I can get away from him. If I'm the opposition, I look at a lot of stuff. Like if I'm the opposition, what do I not want to see? I want to see the bangles with Logan Wilson and cover like, like I want him defending the run and I want to test out those linebackers in the run game. And I, Sure, I think that they'll be able to stop the run a little bit better with Slayton now on the team. I think that they'll do different things. Even with Walter Nolan, they'll be able to stop the run a little bit more. But if I saw that and I was like the Ravens who have been kicking our ass, I would spread the formation out, get them dudes out in space, and I would run against it. And the thing that I think that Joe was talking about, he was talking about Walter Nolan. I haven't really had any clues right now, which I agree with. He also was talking about playmakers. To me, I think Walter Nolan could wake up, and I do think he could make plays. I think that Campbell, if given the right situation, like this one right here, will get so many opportunities to make the plays and be able to be identity. The Bengals have gone so long without, we tried this with Odell Thurman. We tried this, like, we had a couple brief years with Burfitt. We had all these different things that we had. We watched all of our opposition go get their Ray Lewis, get their Roquan, go get their, you know what I'm saying? You could go way back in the day with, you know, the Steelers, Kevin Green and all these guys like that. The Bengals don't really have a history of that mean guy that's like that. See, Javon Walker, whatever his name is, they have the same build, but he is an edge and he probably is going to go top 10. Jahai Campbell is not that. He's a guy that has the ability to blitz, not play edge, none of that. He just can blitz if you need him to. Him shadowing quarterbacks, him being able to call out, him being able to take over the defense, him being able to be identity on the defense. How many times have y'all played the Ravens and y'all seen Roquan and just see him get them late hits, get all these type of hits that are like, They run away from them. They try to get away from them a lot. You can't get away from John Campbell. Go watch his games or whatever. He's running down whoever. These teams that are going after us, that's where they're attacking us at. They attack us with overs in a lot of those games where they're throwing right over the linebackers' heads and they're sucking the linebackers up into the teeth of the defense. You can't do that with John Campbell. He can penetrate those gaps and he can also be able to jump back into coverage if he has to and he can blitz. If for a bad defense, he will have He would have so much impact on his team, and that's, to me, I think if the Bengals weren't so needy of a brand-new nickel or a legit safety and all these different things, I wouldn't feel like there's probably a strong about John Campbell. I just feel like they're at a time where they need a playmaker. To me, he's like Jamar Chase of the defense, bro. He's going to make plays. I'm not saying that Walter Nolan wouldn't make plays. I think Walter Nolan gives more stability. I feel like Walter Nolan is a little bit more safer. I can get away from him though. I could pitch to the outside. I could throw screens. Like I could eliminate her in my game. You can't do that with Jahan Campbell in these games, bro. My whole argument when you were just saying all of that about Walter Nolan is like, I know what he could do. And I listened to everything that you said. And I don't have a problem with any of those things. But I do think I can strategize to do different things to get away from them, just like we did with some of the best defensive tackles that we faced. Of course, you can't get away from Aaron Dodgers of the world. Of course, you can't get away from Chris Jones. But you can strategize and do different things from Jahai Campbells of the world, Roquans that are running around. Jahai Campbells' comp is Junior Seau, one of the best linebackers ever. This is not an edge rusher. This is... A prototypical linebacker that has the athleticism in a new modern body of the NFL. I just think that that would be crazy for the Bengals to pass up in the other in the other big reason. And it's the same thing I feel about Walter Nolan. If they were to pass on Jahar Campbell or Walter Nolan and the Steelers or the Ravens or the Browns or anybody like that in our division, get them. there will be a nightmare. If Jahar Campbell got paired up with Roquan, if Jahar Campbell made it to like the Steelers or something like that, if they got any to any opposition, we'll pay for it. Yeah, I mean, I like him. I think that when it comes to linebacker, the position is as well. is very dependent on defense alignment. So, yes, you can have Roquan Smith and those guys, but you can't ignore the guys that they have setting up the run plays, creating the pass rush opportunities, controlling the line of scrimmage. That's going to help your linebacker. So I think in order for him to also be effective, you've got to make sure that your front four are good. Now, could they do that with the front four that they currently have? I'm not sure. I think with Trey Hendrickson, sure. But if you don't have Trey Hendrickson there, is BJ Hill helping him out? I think a lot of people don't look at one of the reasons that the Bengals linebacker struggled last year is because the front four wasn't good. They weren't setting them up for success. I remember talking with people that talked to Tez last, like back in the day, they were saying like Domotai Petko, he hated him. Because he wasn't able to make as many plays as he really wanted to because of the weakness of that position. So I do think that he is a playmaker. I would take him on the Bengals. However, I think Nolan, when it comes to this class, I think he's easily the top defensive tackle from a pass rush and run stop. kind of thing. I wish we could take both of them. If they could somehow land both of them or if they could get somebody that was pretty good, I think that you're going to have instant impact guys. The thing about both of them is I think that they're both instant impact guys, whereas I think Mike Green is too. The thing that scares me about Mike Green is Bengals have never drafted anybody out of Marshall, ever. And I don't know if they're going to start taking somebody like that in the first round. The one thing about the Bengals that I will say is In the first round, they've taken guys in the second, third, I don't even know even second, but third, fourth round, they'll take some of those guys from smaller schools like the Logan Wilsons and stuff like that. I don't know if they're going to take one of those guys that didn't go to a power five school in the first round. So I think, you know, if it's Jahai Campbell, if it's Walter Nolan, I want it to be Mike Green. I just don't know if they're going to really do it from that position. I think they'd look at a Malachi starts, but it'd be interesting to see what they do. But I do agree with Goodberry with, I don't think either of these guys is turning this defense into an elite defense. It's going to have to be something that they build over time. I do think though, if you come in and put Jahai Campbell at linebacker, he's instantly kind of the face of the defense. He is going to have some sort of impact on it. However, I don't know. They're saying something's wrong with the mic. I don't know what that means for Logan Wilson. I don't know what that means for Jermaine Pratt. I don't know what that means for any of them. But at the end of the day, the Bengals are going to have to fix these areas that they need. And at the end of the day, I don't even care if it's a running back. If the person is an instant impact player that has some kind of potential to be a pro bowler, a future all pro, a future anything, That is what the Bengals need right now, especially with them investing all of this commodities that they have in Joe Burrow, T. Higgins, Jamar Chase. They are going to have to get better play at these other positions for low cost as it stands right now until those contracts come due. So we'll see what that ends up being. But shout out to Joe Goodberry for coming through. Want to toss it to our sponsor at Midwest Best Barbecue. And then we'll be back to give you guys our closing thoughts.
SPEAKER_01:Now they call T. Higgins. Or you say number fives. Either way, you'll be winning. It's them hot honey lemon peppers. Now they call T. Higgins. Or you say number fives. Either way, you'll be winning. It's them hot honey lemon peppers. to Mama T Uno and CTB MB's got Bengals wings and now we just added T's cause 9 to 5 winning things gritty for Uno wings we say it's Susky now like it's a Zimby saying that T got them new wings only at MB's honey living peppers now you can call them T's honey living peppers now they call T higgins or you say number 5's Either way, you'll be winning some hot, honey-living peppers. Now they call T. Higgins, or you say number five. That was nice. That was nice. I ain't gonna lie.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, sir. Shout out to Midwest Best Barbecue, 669 Justice Court in Loveland, Ohio. Make sure you stop in there and let them know ASINZM sent you. We're doing all of this talking, man. Bengal's going to take Tyler Booker at 17, bro. Everybody's going crazy. That would be nasty. I don't think that they're that thirsty for a guard like that. I think a guy like Kelvin Banks, though, I think is real. I really think that Joe probably told them, I've never had a top 20 offensive line. We, as the fans, we don't really talk about protecting them. When you see the opposition, they always be like, why y'all not just drafting the offensive line? Right. What do you say to that? What do you say to that? You know how I am, bro. I'm with the trenches. So if they have a guard tackle, to me, I'm taking a guard at 17. Like, they don't have a guard. They don't have a left guard. I can't take a guard at 17. I can't take a guard at 17. I can take a tackle at 17 that has the ability to play guard and start him at guard. Why wouldn't you? Because you don't take guards in the first round of a draft. Bro, they took Kevin Zeitler. He was in the first round of a draft. They've been looking for one since then. You still there? Yeah, just the positional value of a guard in itself, that will be the biggest mistake of their lives because guys like Ratledge and all the top guards will be available like second, third round. I'm not taking a guard first round. I'll take a tackle. What if you don't get one? What if Ratliff goes right before you? There's so many others. That's why we were asking him the question that we just asked him. The dude with that long name or whatever from Georgia. I mean, not Georgia. The Sylvania dude that they just were talking about. Yeah, from Arizona. Yeah, yeah, from Arizona. That took the business. You just pivoted to one of them dudes. It's so many dudes. that you could take all the way to the fourth round that would start when the Bengals off as a line. I'm not tripping off that. I'm not taking a guard for his round. Not with the edge left, the guys, the corners, the edge, like the position itself. It goes back to that tight end conversation from before. The money, and that's what happens with the running back thing too, is like the money just doesn't add up. I just think it's... Day and age, I'm going to agree to disagree, but I think in this day and age when you got Aaron Donalds and Chris Jones and these guys affecting, having one of those guys that's special and you got a game plan for him, I'm taking the guard. I will bet you any amount of money there will be not one guard taken in the first round of this draft. You don't think Tyler Booker will be taken in the first round? I would bet that. He's getting taken. If he is, it's going to be 20. He got invited to the draft. He's at the thing? Yes, he's on that list. Outside of Booker, is another guard getting drafted in the first round? Outside of Booker. And then ask yourself, do you want slow foot Tyler Booker? I don't. I mean, some people consider Will Campbell a guard, depending on who you talk to. And they feel like he's going to be like an all-pro guard. So I think... If you consider him a guard, too, I think, yeah, Will Campbell and Cooper. I think he's a tackle. He played a left tackle. But he got the 33. He got the 32-and-a-half-inch arms thing. So that's why everybody's like he might be the guy that they end up doing. I think, what was it, the Titans ended up taking that one dude that one year or two. If the Bengals take a guard in the first round, I'm cutting my TV off, and I'm not ever watching the draft ever again. What if he ends up being like– Joe Burrow isn't touched. It means Joe Burrow is not touched. Then go get a tackle then. Go get me Banks. I'm not mad at a tackle in the first round. You're taking Banks knowing that he's going to be a guard for like two or three years. So he's a guard. So he's a guard. He's a tackle. He's a guard that has the ability to play tackle. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like a guard like Ratledge. or these centers that can just play guard, look at the money. Them dudes at the top end get$10,$12 million. You're cheating yourself. They get like$10,$12 million or whatever. That's a big contract for them. Tackles,$20-something million. The way you supplement that is by getting them on cheap labor for four years. That's the reason why tackles go over guards. It's not because of their value on blocking Aaron Donald. It's you're cheating yourself, the money. And I understand that, but I got two tackles. I got Marius Mims and I got Orlando Brown Jr., but I get what you mean. Like, you want a tackle that can play guard, whereas me, I'm just like, bro, I need these two guards. I don't need to see Volson. I don't need to see that dude from New Orleans there. I don't need to see Cody Ford. If they do their homework, you can get what you want. I'm saying, look, if they do their homework– It's not just Rattlers. It's hella tackles and hella guards that are available. Even the center you just talked about from Georgia, there's so many different guards that's going to be available that would start easily second, third, and maybe even some in the fourth round. I think you have the ability to go and get one of those dudes within second, third, fourth round. You could take Banks in the first. You could take any tackle in the first. But the guard has to come after that. And that's just– that's a law, like, right now. Like, there is no guard worth the first– Booker, I don't like. I would be mad at Booker. I don't know. Booker might go first round. If Booker ended up good, I would be mad at first. But if he ended up good and Joe wasn't touched, I wouldn't care. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ultimately, I just would think it would be like a reach, like a 17th. Yeah, give me Booker. I would move back. Give me him in a trade back, sure. In a trade back, yeah. No, I don't. Unless it's Banks, I'm not touching. I mean, I don't think. I mean, Will Campbell is a pipe dream at this point. The kid, Mbuba or whatever from Missouri, you got him. Did any of them dudes fall? Like, yeah, I'm taking any of them. Yeah, yeah. I'm going to tell you one that nobody thinking about. I know that the Bengals are very impressed with what Eric All did. Tyler Warren is a guy that I think could be available to them at 17. And much like how you've been talking about the running back conversation, I think that the Bengals have seen what a blocking tight end with the ability to be able to go in line can do for their team. And this dude is a lot like Brock Bowers. He's a lot like Michael Mayer. He might be there at 17. And that's another one I wouldn't be mad at. But the board itself, say like you were saying earlier, Will Johnson's on the board. It's hard to justify taking a tight end over a cornerback. It's hard to justify taking a tight end over all of these positions. I could go on for this. We got Loveland too. Yeah, we end up doing a whole nother show. I think Loveland will be there. I think Loveland is another one. I think Jahar Campbell's going to be there. I think Jahar Campbell's going to go 19 to the Buccaneers. And I'm going to be pissed that Jahaz is going to be on the board. But if they took starts, your boy Nolan or our boy Nolan, they take any employment, I'm not tripping. If they take banks, I'm not tripping. But if they took some dudes, like no business being taken or whatever, and then I watch the hog off, that's the part that would set me off. I couldn't take that. I don't know. Yeah. Well, hey, we appreciate y'all for tapping in. Make sure that you hit us with that like. Make sure that you comment. Make sure that you share this with your friends. Let us know what you guys thought about this episode. Let us know in the comments who you think we should bring on in the future. We appreciate that as well. This has been the Winston Addict Podcast. We appreciate you guys so much for rocking with us and continuing to support the movement. Hootay. Yes, sir.
UNKNOWN:Thank you.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you.
SPEAKER_03:Thank you.
