אפרכסת
אמיר אורן משוחח עם אנשי ביטחון וממשל
אפרכסת
רונן קלר: בליל רצח רבין היתה צוללת במשימה רחוקה ונדרש אישרור של פרס להמשיך בביצוע
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
גם כשחדל לפקד על כלי-שיט צבאיים בקידומת אח״י - אניית חיל הים הישראלי - נשאר רונן קלר באווירת האחווה שקסמה לו כל כך בצוללות. בבוא ההפיכה המשטרית, ולקריאת מפקד החיל לשעבר עמי אילון, היה אל״מ במילואים קלר ממייסדי ומובילי ״אחים לנשק״.
בשיחה עם אמיר אורן ב״אפרכסת״ מספר קלר על דרכו, מנער חיפאי, בנו של רב-חובל באניות נוסעים, לקורס החובלים וממנו לצוללות. קלר נזכר בחוויה המיוחדת של המיפגש הראשון עם צוללת, בלילה חשוך בים, ועל תכונות הכלים והאנשים שמשכו אותו לזרוע התת-מימית.
בין נושאי השיחה: מורשת ״דקר״, בטיחות וחירום, מה בין פיקוד על צוללת לפיקוד על סטי״ל, האיכות האנושית (״שייטת 700״), מותר שייטת 7 ממקבילותיה בצי המצרי ואחרים, הפער שבין מפקד צוללת לסגנו.
וגם: ההחלטה לחדול מהתנדבות למילואים - לא ״סרבנות״ - בהפיכה המשטרית, הסבת ״אחים לנשק״ לגוף סיוע הממלא את הריק הממשלתי בעקבות 7 באוקטובר ופעילותו במפלגת הדמוקרטים ובמועמדה לכנסת, עמרי רונן.
אולפן: אמנון האס
עריכה: יעל בדרשי
I forgot it. Amir Oren, I'm sure it's a honour.
SPEAKER_01Shalom Amir.
SPEAKER_00The Köller, the Shem Yaki? A Viva Minel Beta Holima Yudi Berlin, Rufeta here been Sloshim Vish Timers. Palestina le Ir Nidak Bashim Khaifa. And the rest is his story. Absolutely Ishalaya, let's see ya so velotanosim, Shel Shnutashim, Israel, Shalom, Onyota L. Onyota Shilumim, Biduk, Shamparashti Mishita Yushal mit Shahatza or me shaita Khanuta Moskit, Shazaya Bonyotanosim, Sheltayan, Rudayan, Yadalishot, Lo, the Khav Adayom, Abisharav Kovel, Aniati Bhalayam, Hoteta Bekhalayam, Gisibhalaam, Ailadim Achanim Kola Hyanimshibhilaam, Viadayom, Abachili Bitzufeyam, Mmidge Peshaba, Viadoom Mimashali, Yushalmit Batishim, Ototob Mamash Bekarov, Shoilet Chomrimla Flagnum, the Lomis Sukan, E Rushalmim Elita Yeshana Shel Khifa, Mishpachot Hushi, Ealin Zmanienze Sefas Manian, Kizh Kvzot, a ilin a mir ilinkita tea tami hushi andoshabhushi, bat kitati, benhushi, we dan hushi weamito ta, elito ta shanot, mishpachat ilin, yesha of dea, my mother be naim, hefa, bate aziku, kolle, and she mamada bein naim as a ma painiki. We ladim shala professorim, butim shel professor him kulam shemotfusami, benchel professor Avram Hersko, Pras Nobel, Ben Kitati, Mizuhere Tatsmi, Slobabai Chino Bne Esser, Professor Hersko, Veral Machbarot, Sha Mause Abaska, Ooooo Professor, Mashu B Refois Mata Mere M Share TV.
SPEAKER_01Lihora?
SPEAKER_00Lichhoha M Share TV, and you Loh Shav Tia M Share TV uh uh Gigi Masha M Share TV Hinoh Khinochetta Sephiroth Realish or Khim, Lassot Mashukashov, Mishkafime, as Course Tyson Optia, Cert Makazo Optia, We had Kibalti Zimun Legibush the Kurz Kovlim, I have Velaza Davar Kilo Kaza. Gali's Chikotamir, Chikotamir, Shallow, the Kamabatim Ladi, Yale de Mufra, Mufra, Vala Ravi Kholote, She Shel Hotel Apnea, Lamrocha Pneumia, the kilometre of Hitima Bay, Chikotamir. But I mean by the Zorla Malbishville, as he has to be able to do it, but Solelet, the Erev, the Shiva Bayer, Hoshak. T-shirt sandalim. Then liter space shelly, when it is space shall have a space or ratsar, so to meet Metr Vachio, Aaron Shallbaimalbaim, Ktantanch, the sambukamat varimwa, mitash tochimishocher, awelba boker zakliftohta ki ofet lil shvima bokeras. But but sotagalem doze, mishu machlich, cashello, asash Michael, Harbe Tercache, and the optiazot. Achamesh the Kotel Tito Shes, Achamesh the Kot Yoter, Mimasha Nihola Khil. Lomatim, Lomatim, so it kilo Azakhele Kazani Khoshev Shelavana She Talocholasimoto it's like Li Roto Bakshera Mochelatsevetrauma shall Dakarish Pia Lechem, Dair Beshani Machrei. When Ozuhere Velishto Zi Karuna M Otchakazh Mura Shalam Kita Alephere tiroup, I am in Mishakazu Milim, Weyamin Kratisioti Milim, Vimhbiyah, Vayle, Yele do Tsechutz, Mham Kar, Achum Mutamilabu Zakita Mila. Azilakra Tamila Abba, Via, Tuto Yele Derez, Achutsa, Vemabo, and Telez Tamila Abba, Sapelhim, She Erez, Ibe Tabashelo, Betzol, Chikola Dakar, Lifeshna Time, We Kachi, Kachi Tivalanuta Dvaraz, Kachasamati Ala Davarase, Pa Mushana, as Mishamzi Thil V as be, be etzem, Mishalav me odmukdam, kolshan or simna e tak is the kar, the bellyfin shamatuta dakar, vey the shama, the shama kolasman. Shall he call it me odd mood has a cala, la shirta kar colozman, betoha, the karona kollective shall him.
SPEAKER_01Ech and khashashum shaninim, mafnimim, shabetihout malakol.
SPEAKER_00No, ki be mete uholet ligomla nashimla vin shimun uh techni aimun babe mata um, bat se foot, we be sotagaim, we besref uh sehakol, techashov me ako shel avana, shabezanachnu meod tovim. Kilumkaavlo mariza idea ship imikremashu, mis sug mesuyam, shikoi shelwafida mawa valulog, as the lom shenekamachnu tovim, asatsoita vudazo to mashu meod binari, ben matzavekh room, shanchudim lita sekitam, srifa, zematavhirum, shahole modlistabeh, Aval Chodimala Sotito, ve tfisata ghim the matav shaudimala sotito. Colohad me holistabech. Aval Aval imze himze imkue mashu Pritzat maim, okay, Pritzat maim, sa knisash and maim bekamodulas lotsafamit sino is gorshlo. Pritzat maim chyudim, shakanresha lodi malasotitua zulom shanemana sa minze spikulagiel. Gel, zilok shel spikusi conkord sweetitba, meudmaheraval. Ish gum odavar shikilu, u Yoshevalomuda, achatolo, your sheb valomuda slomu zio tolamuda, yamatihonuyama od mok, thatumet Sulelit, yoholalish, gamimi tava everestaklemata. Mata, shav uh at sulelithlaze yholitla modbe lachat sila misuyamani logid kamaval. Ava zemna kudel kamot metri, that's ochiny. Imittavash lemal, shlonikasu innichasumaim as a as itovat vimutsef it, abitavash lem mazot, ishlemav la klochola lot, sh the suk shel bayat bayat misugaer, manilohola lot of lani, a dine chai, tokufalak swabria omek shelkamaut meter shavrova yamatihonto gam gam.
SPEAKER_01Vazemotha.
SPEAKER_00Vezemo echotha, to at the karta vabash loshtafi meter. So thomet zelomishha nameta, the low veyamatihon, yamamam mokafaya bech, face rail, been kamisha kilometer le khamishasa kilometre. Talonin tasham, the kilometer.
SPEAKER_01A youhem kim atim, ayumbuhumikrum lo shov.
SPEAKER_00Lo you kimatim shem a filu kovim, lematsav taumer any yeshahuim emtamid ba bat sadha kal shela tiful. Srefa kalzbe khatihatsin ork tan shta sugertasha stones kimat ba kategoria shela kimachani yo deabadocha nyo delta pelis.
SPEAKER_01Mit kalten betsulelot shelti moy nimim or shelci shli shekol show?
SPEAKER_00Okay, the korekolasmantiya Yushan nimba sochanimachonot, Ayushanim shhaypo and soft soilot, bitkufati, michamakara yutamitsoilot po. Okay, Russi, myubesuria, namal tartusu na mal Russi, a yeah, no dexha. Namal tartus and mal Russi besh Bashanima Bashanimachono. Milchemt levanonch niya mkulamayupo, Milhamot Iran Iraq sipura show the loss sodgadol Bam Milhamit Milhamit Milhemta Rishona, atomaho kimru notihon. Gamachav, Pitomata Roetilim Tasima lehavem Yotzimit Sole.
SPEAKER_01Atkama Takvar Losham Avalatkama Imla mitzrim Yesholelot, Shneivnot, Maspinot, Sh Myatzot, Gamita Solo Chelanu, Lamotchebada, Yeshem Tsaim Sha'Lem, Adkama the Mesukanu Madig.
SPEAKER_00Codum call the Miyatzer, you're matif, but the paratechnologi shelat, shel mitzrim, la louvim, velasuri mutu sillot, a paratechnologi ya builtinegishu. As of a power of power beauty. Yesh be mechalomitanu, and made shalomani aim memus, nishmash to me'od muta mutat technologia, valani koshev shabasof, shelanu e tovaelet, shelok mo zero canilom khelem to sim. Avalani khoshev, shabid be metosim, uh paratechnologi who a paramerkaziza. Enkwar, kravotavir shekilo tayas, uhul day, tayasa cravya to mea, but sof mato platform, bagadol, tasa vehicle agida, gam tzulot, adulfina, khadoshot, drakon, bergirmania, terdomot la tzulelet, gal, shani, flag, tibalifne, shaana, my share, mm, the ter Zulelet, we platform technology. Shil Dakar, the killelet the klish ukulkah ukulkach, physically velo sonar techadash, sonarash Basov to the Sipur. And it's the command of Frazar, and you've been shishing time, but we have to be able to do it.
SPEAKER_01Then, you dala said, as B Mizgrethab, the Aitam faked satil, weitam faked solar.
SPEAKER_00Satil the doom, but smak vohamod, letvarkatzamod. Avaltion, it's like a big thing. But so let's say, but a lot of relevant, strategy strategy deny the marathon.
SPEAKER_01Statils, uh, the nani or gidbecheleamba, Shani Machuno, Litova, and the other.
SPEAKER_00AI a hola klif lora bimancha at sevit, zo, benitua, shamon, hamon, hamon sensorim. Acoustic intelligence, ve ve lemashal, olama uh tatmimi, ulama kulot, kol shastume, zrak z galkol, shome to lama odmah, ma od muka, ve ya uutafkid mafteh, ba bede Varzas, to met meshlo Shimshanai tatsäch, it's a motogamba state of America, it's a sonarist, teddy kazef, itikov tedr kazea zeomatto war berbeuter Kazak, U Shomea, Colette or Boter AI a whole be met la soot, Vose, the Vodama Dima, Khadam Kmoach Tamid Sheilash and Hoshev Eloticre, ilok e dine look at the meta and you canoticre, the AI Batzaal Yeshay, the Midagalou, Yev, Lemash, AI, and Hoshevre. The Low actually in Mishushi A Seba Karabifnim, and Gamimesh mishushi a seba karabif name in Bakarala Tulel, Shapam Raiti shell Gadi Eisenko, Shia Ramatkal shiton a marshu, hocha nisholeh misima, when you dash and regish cavagvul, and lish litalem, the gduchel golani, and tick short kitsunu.
SPEAKER_01An ahata voda vodai antik short. The other voda is ole lot be met smuyot, uh uh loita khenchilla americaim la sinimula, yeshayomif shareut me halal ladat effort?
SPEAKER_00No, and sof aderchy uh a physical. A physical shell soet lomishtana, the mitachatlamaim, masho verachitov mitachatlamayash kolmine galim electromagnetum shovim. The physica is lomishtana, we lachaini mata shaket, the muzia chuta makrina chuta minimum shelgale collayote kolastayi pachot, we mata varsha kashula physika, yesh bes sofoshavar uh gal colch, mutsiatzulelet, andish when you sech love in the gal colchatsulelit the gal colchu men made, shadam yet zaru to the low, uhulfin.
SPEAKER_01Yes, twiatits bo.
SPEAKER_00Yes, weat it's boot, we're not a man. Khol shata, shaketut, city show it, long periscopy show it electromagnetic. Sheleyam vish kitas.
SPEAKER_01Echo simply aboard battle.
SPEAKER_00Cole colo tihunun, me vousasholiot cholohlo tli abort, cola tihunsazik. Shuvaniloi kan lay keshaal yesh, yesh mehuyavut, alme fakeda sulelet, lyot, misugal, le cabel, be matzavim, le nagid, liyadho foyev, imata bnoa, nikazem halte, ma varezor, bitnoa, arukash, lomur, liotbashu, mihuyav be pachot klita vata, bezor, bezorom sima, tamehuyav, li clot, olyot, kashuv, col kamashaot, le mikresh arshav. Call kamashaot, ze halonas manchle otoromatkal, tosar bi tahon, o tora roshmashala, kilo imurzel at sortam sima, yach the caliphneze antibekhaot, arbashota nilazi.
SPEAKER_01Kalaliha, the misima, be hofra hok kol sho.
SPEAKER_00Bayam batomida, tatsua, ni ta collega shilia, uhatsuatiam collega shia bayam.
SPEAKER_01Collega zilo ked tsole.
SPEAKER_00Lolo, collega? The korebolama ziva seloy katson. November nirzahrabin, a tat sole. Sha ta ma vir shovital al sole bemifza, le roshmem shallah, sheloi shirt Shimon Perez. The ability the az, a tight lab two, come a shot and show to the Katie Bachov, sof Perez Perez Mari Vanti and some echalitzak, she what's the holy coat ki ki mudinish tanav, the holy coat ki Ramat kuni, the holy coat may be a kid. Tia ni Bigilia Mikadem and Yodela Gijokmo I lit privilegia, privilegia kazarayonit, liot, me faked, but cli, a kikovishal, shadavashua hirutz, and the yeah, kak kiloit himanimish tamesh be neshek, si manche be met cara oshani mutkaf, as embrera, o shani olech la oko anashimbe milhaman orote asanirote any any any tayholet, mezba, the simchati loni drashti.
SPEAKER_01Aita yotba diamashabad dam.
SPEAKER_00Biduk, biduk,uk, any ani emant ani mamin animam ani be met emanti azwani ma t Prashata tzelota michuali mutye kilo ech, tz tzarichtolot, ken tzaricht zoelot, medat Israel, trecha, ladat, chyeshla taycholet azot, tam midayala gamshizaya echolit mudinit, poitzit derech, vegam size echolit strategit poetziderech, tzaricht zoelot, mediani, adam shuf shalom, shuef dukiyum anyov lagit medyanisrael shalyot medina, betuchha be arachea, ubtuhabik voluta, andilo pacifist. Aval, zelo mershanahu tzakim kolosman nelfnef ba stamatskrik, ken dobri mayom strim be yuli, shil shomit persemat munan lodem reita, sh'olelet ola la chetha benfratzelat. Rao, t'solet, ola, lo dezit flo de mizot. Khatsota dolfin, ola chetak, chavia sharp, ki bati telephonim, hopa. Netanyao rotsele ayem a la iranim, si eshlo keskoush kamu.
SPEAKER_01L'at mari mimali.
SPEAKER_00Lomila, bidio, ki moyaze, lotsarik, can irani khestle menuha, ou letipul, ou letikoun, viola la chethak ki ni khla mal.
SPEAKER_01Ya fellish mautra mega ntanyao.
SPEAKER_00Bidiuk, le gamra, nyomer killu ze chat sweet bayam bayama dom kolhad yodak, yavad sweets. As if shall last tiretov da shlanut sole. Bay lat, nkhasalef, for your turp gia. Matach, lilachnatal pine, betzem you additi layamas did, fakedahi dolfina rishon, batem fakeda rishon sham kabelo takhim giaalarit, mm fakete. Kiberuta mea spenagirmanit, miuval, fakeda dolfina rison, can fakedahigal, evantisha ni tzarichhinui, we shan zekhalechlem, masukmashaim, we shan faked sulet, mitsitita, the varze ima beava, bemet bemed be metimar bemo dava, that iklam.
SPEAKER_01And shit soulelot, like, mktsinim yeshmala sot, avaal the lobbi's buzatsun shelkohadam, shashanim rabo, loca rule miloim auton shade sole lot, and the king is a big.
SPEAKER_00If short like zim became machitovim batamalet sole it, okay mlo, lochulim kanire, lokulam tesim, ab the behmet, kulam kabim, shvamutva mala ba psychometry, machimovrik him shaesh, ahiro him shaesh, machitovim sha, bagashti bhai, uhtalochol ta kuneklibeur, atalohol sim shama mishushulakitov zbos, ken aval Aval Tamitachamlochol, taloh sevet sulelit trichlot be ruboa gadol, tsevet organi, uman, nashim kirimha teshia talochol, the lochol yot sevet.
SPEAKER_01Beno safli zaatagam uhivra izrahit. Ma pilochha.
SPEAKER_00Then ifadgilhishim, evanti etik falsamkal mashabenoshabra checkpointishani uhella gid Ia Serlia Khavayashell Netinash Italik Ishkeva. High tech, startup nation, the madim, Aval Basoft, and you ved Le Pernasati, Le Pernasatoshel shall Babalim shall checkpoint with Madim Bena, Gil Shred, Gilken. Aval, Avalha Seriahze, V Talti Khapes, yet satilla cart yet hofish, bota Shana, we like the Bokansa Shaket, with Tachuchai than Omit, and Fasan, Vazmanh Shovantish any Lochol, any Lochol, Liz Daken, Adam Shakol Mashu Kesif. But, as you can say, I'm not going to be able to get me a flagotch, post traumatic, flagotch, and then we're going to be able to reverse him as you said. The yodit democratic, the Khavila, the law, as you did democratic, Iudit, but she waited, Yanor Sams, Ami It Kasherela, Sima, Bichaviksh, Amialon Umer Shlimesima sta Umer. Wamali Takim Kvutsat mecha, yesh, mit Targenot Kvutsot, Shel Khai Shel Yutzetsava, Danihalutz, it Kasherelay, Elav, Vemar May M Kheleyam. We mit Kasherilecha, Vomercha, Takim Futsa, Vet Kasherle, Dan Khalutz, Vet Tagilosh Makim, Vakhaya, Dani Khalutz, Kashere Lech, Dani Halutz toi Kasherei, itkashere law, dai na Ramatkal. Haya We kam title Khovlimana Demokratia Karano Leze.
SPEAKER_01Maya reka.
SPEAKER_00Galant, it is Hilaknubenuta Misimot, the kolakadzarla Sheni. We betem Likrat Mertz, Bigash and Eighty Sukal Min Muked, Shelav, Itome the Bring Kolakovleim, Ithilagia, Ithilulagia, Hamon, Hamon, Hamon, Eli, Amon, Telephoni, the WhatsAppim, the shim and shemiluim, shallot millim and whatsap me, katim than chamishim ve mashu, shassamilim, bayam, bitvoa, adil chamishinve mashu, shakhsap, tiremaw lehpu, any any any bayam, when you show me dinner.
SPEAKER_01Vizabitnatwood.
SPEAKER_00Bitnutwood, bit not Srimframeshana bitnet voot, Vyotzel Yam, Mashu Bemethari. Vetzemani la karteat's me, the gam, colochadba gizra, nib gizratayam. La lechet la volle la gidlam fakdechelam shit kufekheleam, vicinecheleam, vem fakdahidot, la gidum chver, eshbaya bemarachamiluim, temchamina vinit, eshbaya bemachilim, temohli telemina, kolel galancha patienchelanu, letsohwa klientanu, bano de gama, chmeshbaya, ta loholi telemina, lokara, vize lokara vizelokara, vebesushlav, vi vanu shimanhlon natsifitze az as aznu anachlo khaim lauf dashakhnuimita varzekore, tap drama be marachamilim shimitachatnashetimuta, sino tamasibati tonaimar shonashaniashavti bagam, tiro, zemashore, marachamino, loya shum ium, veloashum davar sholofiloyum. Ayalaka mira shumerta anachnu and shemiluim, anachmu medabrimanch urban shemiluim, Vematsa, the betzem, Yomai Machem sibate tonaimazot, galant, yetsaima mi rashelo, kashentanyawe bhulovel, yatsaima mi rashelo, shiloya can shum serov, zelosh kibaltim zimun lolo, shumserov, kulanu mit nadvim ve lolo shumserov, pamar shad psaholeya, haramat degel, yesh bayab seva, nachnu khyut kesak Shivaba October.
SPEAKER_01Shivab, Fachem la Yirgun Shotemita Prat Shamim Shalay Shiru.
SPEAKER_00Shivab October Bates and B Shiva Shivab October Baboker. Giluna Ota ni Shivab October Babokeriti Ba Tuna, Syam no Flagash, Hodesh Bay Yahta, Rakivani. If no, khodesh ba shib October Khazarnu Latuna called the king. Lamdala khil. Siam no flagga, we've got a dog, me mem, we bathmit, sevadum, we'll telephone with invitation, a whatsapp, math, khaverimba tef, shulchim yu do, tanachnu mutkafe, metalom vin, shortimutanu, kailed varim, bishmuni booker WhatsApp shall movilah himanishitore, Bishmone Booker Kvaraman, Lemana Sir Safe Kulamulhimelouim, Kulamrime, Machashafta, well can a Silsafek, I show I gid it, Kulam Yutsimiluim and I shartil facetcheli and it isal, seventeen behidam fakerzal, but of kidakonui, shakhtil facetcheli odan, and il shirutha, kilifnezesikanus, okay, a martha shlomit Nadev's caze gamer, call as minuli me memes. Mattian shirutra, Marley Besed, lawyer, carega, yafi colota, because you relevantio, we betsem Bashmone Boker Mit Nadwim, but so raim kwa call the words of the way, uh, divhash and la vestim, call me zoterim, lika erv a khesh trekim, shell laot, shall vestim, shall ochel, shall see you, anecdotal, yal nave, but remote credit leyal, nave shallam, alternative. Uh, shallim kulam yutz and sarim, kulambaula expo listakel, kone si bayoma, shishilamilhamam, and five. She kampo koach, she koach, effective, yeahel, she vote, koch negad, le colo shabot, as tarut shaloshanim kadima lisium, vehshav, uh, anashim de fakot me akoze, politika, vatato mekbombrion. Anito mechmobrion. Ani Zedakamanian Rova Nashim, Rova Nashim, Shayub Magalim Bavadai Bahim Naneshek, Bahiman Mahim Nashekhid, Shabemet, Tehlich Olehla Politikas Omrionin. Kolochimhitem Lorotzim, Anilfne, Shanawa Hetziber, Hevanti, Brahmaishit Shabasof, Tnootizakyot, Ema Dele Kema Emma Manoa, She Noad, Lazola Politicaim, Sota Vodashlaim. If Shalif Not Medina, Notis Achyot, Virgena, Manganono, Mangano Politi, Vivanti Shani, Khayavliot Beto Marita Politit, Shazati Le Murive Rabi, Ami, Shalifne Beshani, Malit Shmatalomati, Tzarichl Shaker, Zhazza, Talot Ziya Hasodzia, Matilami and Haslam Politica, Vani Makshivave, Masha Martali Pfne Soshanim Valevanti Shani Khavlikas Lamerta Politic, Pakati Demokratin, Nifhati Kitsir, Bem Hostel Avivani, Simchatiya, At Suma, Lifne Kamchodoshim, Omri Shavli had Dibem Sibateim, Shelaf Sakatait Nadvut, Anio Meritze ki, Shaniu Datifikit Nadvut, Zenar, Alf Mishneb and Shishim, Vakir Tzal, Tzal, Tzalista, Zelow Drama, Zimkabella Bekotarota, Drama Zelo.
SPEAKER_01And then Mishkan Bashbaof, Ronen Keller, Keller, Kmohelen Keller.