{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":39.769,"endTime":41.419,"body":"Good day Therapy Natters fans."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":41.629,"endTime":43.369,"body":"Welcome to another episode."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":43.729,"endTime":51.229,"body":"For new listeners, this is the podcast"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":43.729,"endTime":51.229,"body":"series where myself Richard Nicholls"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":51.229,"endTime":58.709,"body":"psychotherapists, share with you all, some"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":51.229,"endTime":58.709,"body":"insight into what goes on in that funny,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":59.149,"endTime":59.909,"body":"Hello, Fiona."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":60.059,"endTime":62.699,"body":"How's your funny, old"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":60.059,"endTime":62.699,"body":"lump of stuff doing today?"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":63.629,"endTime":70.199,"body":"I wasn't sure if you were"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":63.629,"endTime":70.199,"body":"talking general lumps of stuff"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":70.619,"endTime":75.119,"body":"Which might help other people to think"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":70.619,"endTime":75.119,"body":"what their lumps of stuff might be doing."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":75.299,"endTime":82.92099999999999,"body":"That might be the same or different,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":75.299,"endTime":82.92099999999999,"body":"but yes, nobody really knows what"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":82.92099999999999,"endTime":83.431,"body":"Do they?"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":83.761,"endTime":84.511,"body":"Not really,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":85.156,"endTime":95.26599999999999,"body":"Frustratingly the more that we"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":85.156,"endTime":95.26599999999999,"body":"learn about the lump of stuff in between"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":95.86600000000001,"endTime":104.596,"body":"Because  I forget the author that"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":95.86600000000001,"endTime":104.596,"body":"came up with this quote and it's been"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":104.596,"endTime":113.4,"body":"psychologists have used it that if the"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":104.596,"endTime":113.4,"body":"brain was simple enough that we could"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":113.4,"endTime":115.19999999999999,"body":"If that makes sense."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":115.38499999999999,"endTime":123.33500000000001,"body":"And it has to be complicated for us to"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":115.38499999999999,"endTime":123.33500000000001,"body":"try and understand it , and then it gets"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":123.33500000000001,"endTime":133.175,"body":"And here we are with this really"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":123.33500000000001,"endTime":133.175,"body":"complicated set of connections in"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":134.021,"endTime":134.321,"body":"And then"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":134.351,"endTime":135.341,"body":"everyone is different."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":135.431,"endTime":147.107,"body":"and that makes me wonder how much"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":135.431,"endTime":147.107,"body":"has that changed and developed over the"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":147.107,"endTime":159.393,"body":"Probably influenced, well,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":147.107,"endTime":159.393,"body":"definitely influenced by humankind,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":160.023,"endTime":160.773,"body":"We can't know."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":160.773,"endTime":162.173,"body":"Nature or nurture."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":162.173,"endTime":164.373,"body":"They've got the same biological brain."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":164.47299999999998,"endTime":167.35299999999998,"body":"You go back only a few thousand"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":164.47299999999998,"endTime":167.35299999999998,"body":"years and, and life was different."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":167.41299999999998,"endTime":170.113,"body":"Our brain is changed all the time."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":170.263,"endTime":172.033,"body":"You'll see these headlines sometimes."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":172.483,"endTime":172.933,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":173.203,"endTime":179.41299999999998,"body":"You'll see these things that say"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":173.203,"endTime":179.41299999999998,"body":"like technology makes us stupid"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":179.81,"endTime":186.525,"body":"And it's simply because there will"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":179.81,"endTime":186.525,"body":"always be some brain scan that"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":186.525,"endTime":193.92,"body":"changes the brain because everything"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":186.525,"endTime":193.92,"body":"changes the brain, everything we've"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":193.92,"endTime":204.9,"body":"So yes, using technology is gonna change"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":193.92,"endTime":204.9,"body":"our brain, but so is looking at the color"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":205.62,"endTime":210.51,"body":"But I don't think we need all the"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":205.62,"endTime":210.51,"body":"headlines that we get that says, you know,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":210.72,"endTime":212.44,"body":"That's, doesn't seem to be the case."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":212.60999999999999,"endTime":213.98999999999998,"body":"I would completely agree."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":213.995,"endTime":215.19,"body":"It's not the case."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":215.19,"endTime":221.99599999999998,"body":"The opening up to experience that"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":215.19,"endTime":221.99599999999998,"body":"technology has given us and the"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":221.99599999999998,"endTime":231.602,"body":"to get about the world and people in"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":221.99599999999998,"endTime":231.602,"body":"it, which wouldn't have been possible"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":231.602,"endTime":236.14,"body":"There was only a very  narrow worldview"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":231.602,"endTime":236.14,"body":"because they didn't know anything else."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":236.14,"endTime":236.73999999999998,"body":"They couldn't do."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":237.535,"endTime":247.558,"body":"Well, you've only gotta go"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":237.535,"endTime":247.558,"body":"back a hundred and something years"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":247.588,"endTime":248.188,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":248.308,"endTime":249.238,"body":"Yes, it was wasn't it."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":249.808,"endTime":256.13,"body":"And he came back to Austria with"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":249.808,"endTime":256.13,"body":"all these ideas about how talking"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":256.67,"endTime":261.05,"body":"And of course he was belittled"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":256.67,"endTime":261.05,"body":"don't be ridiculous talking"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":261.055,"endTime":264.53000000000003,"body":"Isn't gonna help some"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":261.055,"endTime":264.53000000000003,"body":"woman with her hysterics."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":264.59000000000003,"endTime":266.66,"body":"That's not gonna, that's"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":264.59000000000003,"endTime":266.66,"body":"not gonna solve anything."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":266.90000000000003,"endTime":269.57,"body":"And that wasn't really that long ago."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":269.90000000000003,"endTime":271.31,"body":"That was at the same time."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":271.955,"endTime":280.71500000000003,"body":"That literally doctors were"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":271.955,"endTime":280.71500000000003,"body":"blowing smoke up people's backside"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":281.555,"endTime":283.27,"body":"They were still doing that."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":283.414,"endTime":284.41,"body":"I'm Ooh."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":284.41,"endTime":285.19,"body":"Your face!"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":287.46999999999997,"endTime":289.054,"body":"I'm trying to  laugh quietly."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":290.0,"endTime":296.0,"body":"To be, to be serious and respectful"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":290.0,"endTime":296.0,"body":"and try not to say the words."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":296.39,"endTime":299.39,"body":"I think that could be useful treatment"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":296.39,"endTime":299.39,"body":"for certain people these days."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":299.51,"endTime":300.71,"body":"I'm not going to say that."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":302.83,"endTime":307.59499999999997,"body":"We do hear that phrase"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":302.83,"endTime":307.59499999999997,"body":"still Don't blowing smoke up some"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":307.59499999999997,"endTime":308.765,"body":"And it didn't stop."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":309.365,"endTime":310.47499999999997,"body":"Well, maybe it didn't stop."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":310.47499999999997,"endTime":310.895,"body":"I don't know."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":310.895,"endTime":312.665,"body":"Maybe it's still going on for all I know."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":312.735,"endTime":319.584,"body":"But back when we were still doing that"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":312.735,"endTime":319.584,"body":"was the beginnings of when we were trying"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":319.584,"endTime":322.854,"body":"And I guess, I mean, you talk about"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":319.584,"endTime":322.854,"body":"Aristotle and, and people like that."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":322.914,"endTime":327.054,"body":"And I think maybe they did set the ball"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":322.914,"endTime":327.054,"body":"rolling a little for people like Freud."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":327.594,"endTime":329.054,"body":"Hundreds and hundreds and"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":327.594,"endTime":329.054,"body":"hundreds of years later."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":330.219,"endTime":330.639,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":330.939,"endTime":342.834,"body":"I'm not in any way, shape or form"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":330.939,"endTime":342.834,"body":"a philosopher, but it's interesting"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":343.354,"endTime":345.24399999999997,"body":"It was about what is life about?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":345.496,"endTime":345.976,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":346.134,"endTime":355.817,"body":"But it is about thinking and what we do"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":346.134,"endTime":355.817,"body":"with those thoughts and that thinking,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":356.10699999999997,"endTime":362.287,"body":"one of my patrons left on, on a blog"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":356.10699999999997,"endTime":362.287,"body":"post of mine that says in response to"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":362.587,"endTime":368.587,"body":"She says, love what you're doing and"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":362.587,"endTime":368.587,"body":"exploring the difference between what"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":368.617,"endTime":379.54699999999997,"body":"Look forward to hearing more, uh,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":368.617,"endTime":379.54699999999997,"body":"cuz the conscious and unconscious"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":379.54699999999997,"endTime":380.302,"body":"isn't it"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":380.302,"endTime":392.145,"body":"."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":380.302,"endTime":392.145,"body":"Fiona: I can't imagine that generally"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":392.145,"endTime":395.865,"body":"And I know you wanted to"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":392.145,"endTime":395.865,"body":"explain his tripartite theory."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":396.165,"endTime":397.245,"body":"Didn't you Richard"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":398.385,"endTime":399.855,"body":"Well, uh, okay."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":400.185,"endTime":400.935,"body":"You, passed that to me."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":400.935,"endTime":401.355,"body":"That's fine."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":404.745,"endTime":405.22499999999997,"body":"Very good."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":405.23,"endTime":405.635,"body":"Very good."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":406.182,"endTime":409.662,"body":"A lot of people have poo-pooed Freud."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":410.43399999999997,"endTime":420.504,"body":"Even in our profession, I've, I've met"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":410.43399999999997,"endTime":420.504,"body":"people at conferences  and I've mentioned,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":420.504,"endTime":421.554,"body":"Oh, he was a jerk."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":421.584,"endTime":423.954,"body":"Oh, he was, he was misogynist."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":423.954,"endTime":433.354,"body":"Or he was, he was just a typical sexist"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":423.954,"endTime":433.354,"body":"man or whatever, but he was one of the"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":433.699,"endTime":438.849,"body":"we're not stuck in our personality,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":433.699,"endTime":438.849,"body":"that it can be changed."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":440.029,"endTime":450.194,"body":"And although some of his ideas were,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":440.029,"endTime":450.194,"body":"um, uh, were very new at the time"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":450.49399999999997,"endTime":456.254,"body":"because as far as he was concerned,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":450.49399999999997,"endTime":456.254,"body":"that was what kept a species alive"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":456.254,"endTime":458.084,"body":"So everything should be about that."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":458.444,"endTime":462.719,"body":"And that stigma that I think psychologists"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":458.444,"endTime":462.719,"body":"and psychotherapists have to face."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":463.55899999999997,"endTime":466.61899999999997,"body":"People do think all we do is"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":463.55899999999997,"endTime":466.61899999999997,"body":"talk about sex as therapists."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":466.649,"endTime":470.30899999999997,"body":"I dunno whether you find that in, in"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":466.649,"endTime":470.30899999999997,"body":"social circles, but certainly my friends."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":470.669,"endTime":473.429,"body":"Unless I just spend all"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":470.669,"endTime":473.429,"body":"my time talking about sex."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":473.669,"endTime":473.939,"body":"Um,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":474.719,"endTime":477.419,"body":"I'd say it's half that and half."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":477.629,"endTime":478.979,"body":"I'm not gonna talk about my childhood."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":480.563,"endTime":481.58299999999997,"body":"yeah, I get a lot of that."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":481.953,"endTime":482.113,"body":"Yeah"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":482.302,"endTime":494.31,"body":"But as for Freud, his tri-"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":482.302,"endTime":494.31,"body":"partite idea is that we are made up"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":494.31,"endTime":506.042,"body":"And he talked about it going through"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":494.31,"endTime":506.042,"body":"stages of, of early life that you"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":506.092,"endTime":507.322,"body":"You're just hungry."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":507.322,"endTime":514.438,"body":"You're a baby screaming and  you get"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":507.322,"endTime":514.438,"body":"all these angry emotions cuz you're"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":515.698,"endTime":516.328,"body":"And then we have our."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":516.388,"endTime":516.5980000000001,"body":"ego,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":517.868,"endTime":525.908,"body":"which develops when a little bit older"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":517.868,"endTime":525.908,"body":"that tries to manage some of these things"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":526.388,"endTime":530.918,"body":"I still want that, that toy, but I'm"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":526.388,"endTime":530.918,"body":"not just gonna snatch it off that child."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":530.918,"endTime":532.268,"body":"I'll I'll wait a moment."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":532.3580000000001,"endTime":536.658,"body":"And then we've got the super"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":532.3580000000001,"endTime":536.658,"body":"ego, which develops when we're"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":537.168,"endTime":550.8130000000001,"body":"based around the Should you know, a little"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":537.168,"endTime":550.8130000000001,"body":"bit about what society expects of us,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":550.8130000000001,"endTime":561.053,"body":"He, he used a rider in a horse as a"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":550.8130000000001,"endTime":561.053,"body":"useful metaphor that the, the, it is a,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":561.053,"endTime":564.923,"body":"then the, the rider can learn to control"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":561.053,"endTime":564.923,"body":"the horse and the horse calms down."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":565.4380000000001,"endTime":566.548,"body":"And it's fine."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":566.638,"endTime":570.118,"body":"It just does as it's told,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":566.638,"endTime":570.118,"body":"unless it gets spooked."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":570.898,"endTime":578.403,"body":"There's a plastic bag that blows and it"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":570.898,"endTime":578.403,"body":"makes the horse spook and then whoa, the"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":578.8530000000001,"endTime":583.053,"body":"And I quite like to take that a"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":578.8530000000001,"endTime":583.053,"body":"little bit further and say, it's"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":584.038,"endTime":592.738,"body":"that it's, it's a horse with a,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":584.038,"endTime":592.738,"body":"with a carriage and a rider because"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":592.738,"endTime":600.5680000000001,"body":"in the back of the carriage tutting if"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":592.738,"endTime":600.5680000000001,"body":"you go the wrong way, and that seems"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":600.5680000000001,"endTime":601.368,"body":"Fiona."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":602.546,"endTime":604.676,"body":"I think that's a"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":602.546,"endTime":604.676,"body":"really good explanation."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":604.7360000000001,"endTime":605.9960000000001,"body":"Uh, there's another one though."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":606.056,"endTime":612.1160000000001,"body":"Do you remember in the college"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":606.056,"endTime":612.1160000000001,"body":"course notes, national college"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":613.076,"endTime":613.2560000000001,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":614.4860000000001,"endTime":614.546,"body":"I"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":614.711,"endTime":615.517,"body":"Can you find that"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":616.787,"endTime":620.066,"body":"?"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":616.787,"endTime":620.066,"body":"Richard: I have it open here."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":620.066,"endTime":624.1160000000001,"body":"Analogies, a couple of analogies may"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":620.066,"endTime":624.1160000000001,"body":"provide additional clarification."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":624.1160000000001,"endTime":624.5360000000001,"body":"Here we go."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":625.466,"endTime":625.856,"body":"Oh yes."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":625.8610000000001,"endTime":626.726,"body":"This is where yes."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":626.726,"endTime":638.2760000000001,"body":"Firstly from Freud himself, the"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":626.726,"endTime":638.2760000000001,"body":"relation of ego to Id is like a man on"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":638.2760000000001,"endTime":642.4910000000001,"body":"so with his own strength while"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":638.2760000000001,"endTime":642.4910000000001,"body":"the ego uses borrowed forces."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":642.821,"endTime":643.211,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":643.5110000000001,"endTime":655.8710000000001,"body":"Bit dry there Freud, but in, uh, 1966,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":643.5110000000001,"endTime":655.8710000000001,"body":"uh, Banister, he gave the quote that said"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":656.2610000000001,"endTime":664.301,"body":"He is a dark cellar in which a well bred"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":656.2610000000001,"endTime":664.301,"body":"spinster lady and a sex crazed monkey"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":664.571,"endTime":668.081,"body":"The struggle being refereed"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":664.571,"endTime":668.081,"body":"by a rather nervous bank"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":668.081,"endTime":668.961,"body":"clerk."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":670.7660000000001,"endTime":673.346,"body":"That is certainly less"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":670.7660000000001,"endTime":673.346,"body":"dry than the Freudian one."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":673.346,"endTime":673.796,"body":"Isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":674.576,"endTime":676.1360000000001,"body":"A sex crazed"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":674.576,"endTime":676.1360000000001,"body":"monkey in the cellar."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":676.3760000000001,"endTime":676.916,"body":"And that's our Id."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":677.1110000000001,"endTime":686.681,"body":"And the well bred spinster lady,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":677.1110000000001,"endTime":686.681,"body":"obviously the super ego and the nervous"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":686.681,"endTime":686.921,"body":"all."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":688.0210000000001,"endTime":692.2410000000001,"body":"and that, that"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":688.0210000000001,"endTime":692.2410000000001,"body":"has stood the test of time."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":692.2410000000001,"endTime":697.731,"body":"Freud started that off in what,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":692.2410000000001,"endTime":697.731,"body":"1886, something like that."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":698.091,"endTime":705.981,"body":"So we're going back a, a long time, but"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":698.091,"endTime":705.981,"body":"most things that started then aren't still"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":706.821,"endTime":714.601,"body":"That is, and it still does seem"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":706.821,"endTime":714.601,"body":"to be the case and lots of other"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":714.601,"endTime":721.291,"body":"theory about human development does"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":714.601,"endTime":721.291,"body":"seem to suggest whether it's attachment"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":721.291,"endTime":726.851,"body":"We go through these stages and we are"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":721.291,"endTime":726.851,"body":"just all just trying to get our needs met."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":727.041,"endTime":728.731,"body":"and that they are all still there."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":730.2610000000001,"endTime":734.3710000000001,"body":"I would challenge any listener to"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":730.2610000000001,"endTime":734.3710000000001,"body":"think about that for themselves."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":734.3710000000001,"endTime":745.441,"body":"And think are there times when"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":734.3710000000001,"endTime":745.441,"body":"your monkey in the cellar is having"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":746.0310000000001,"endTime":749.931,"body":"And I'm pretty sure most people"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":746.0310000000001,"endTime":749.931,"body":"would say yes to a degree."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":749.931,"endTime":753.955,"body":"Although hopefully they've negotiated."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":753.955,"endTime":758.5150000000001,"body":"So there aren't serious battles"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":753.955,"endTime":758.5150000000001,"body":"going on most of the time."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":758.6750000000001,"endTime":758.8950000000001,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":759.475,"endTime":759.835,"body":"Well."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":759.9000000000001,"endTime":771.5150000000001,"body":"I think the reason these, these ideas"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":759.9000000000001,"endTime":771.5150000000001,"body":"are important for people to know"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":771.605,"endTime":773.585,"body":"And it doesn't mean"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":771.605,"endTime":773.585,"body":"that we're going crazy."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":774.2750000000001,"endTime":776.7650000000001,"body":"It just means that we are human."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":777.245,"endTime":782.705,"body":"But in times of stress, I think"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":777.245,"endTime":782.705,"body":"that's when it shows itself."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":782.9830000000001,"endTime":784.4530000000001,"body":"And we need to know, okay."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":784.4530000000001,"endTime":794.173,"body":"I have needs whatever those"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":784.4530000000001,"endTime":794.173,"body":"needs are, whether it's a need"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":794.623,"endTime":796.9330000000001,"body":"When we sense that something's not right."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":798.123,"endTime":804.613,"body":"Our Id will just keep on banging on"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":798.123,"endTime":804.613,"body":"the door saying, let me take control"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":804.763,"endTime":812.113,"body":"Just let me be in charge and we need"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":804.763,"endTime":812.113,"body":"to know that's what's going on so that"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":812.113,"endTime":813.673,"body":"And then we know what to work with."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":814.663,"endTime":819.673,"body":"And to a certain extent to"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":814.663,"endTime":819.673,"body":"allow it to be within certain confines."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":820.196,"endTime":827.816,"body":"So allowing the Id to express"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":820.196,"endTime":827.816,"body":"itself when you are on your"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":829.181,"endTime":835.7510000000001,"body":"That might be absolutely fine, but it"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":829.181,"endTime":835.7510000000001,"body":"might not be, if you were to go into"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":836.606,"endTime":844.316,"body":"And this is why Carl"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":836.606,"endTime":844.316,"body":"Jung, who, uh, people tend to"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":844.316,"endTime":845.4780000000001,"body":"I mean he did, I guess,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":845.5830000000001,"endTime":846.4530000000001,"body":"they overlapped."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":846.4530000000001,"endTime":846.4540000000001,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":846.9820000000001,"endTime":847.8820000000001,"body":"And they clashed."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":848.1220000000001,"endTime":850.2270000000001,"body":"I think they clashed"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":848.1220000000001,"endTime":850.2270000000001,"body":"on quite a few things."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":850.687,"endTime":856.787,"body":"I think probably about the whole"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":850.687,"endTime":856.787,"body":"everything being about sexual"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":857.8620000000001,"endTime":866.392,"body":"And, it was him that said let's look"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":857.8620000000001,"endTime":866.392,"body":"at this Id, ego, super ego parts"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":866.397,"endTime":875.152,"body":"Because with patients that he was"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":866.397,"endTime":875.152,"body":"seeing, he could see that there were"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":875.152,"endTime":882.892,"body":"his daughter Anna did expand upon and,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":875.152,"endTime":882.892,"body":"and Jung could see all of that and go,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":883.3570000000001,"endTime":893.2570000000001,"body":"Personas as he called them, the, the"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":883.3570000000001,"endTime":893.2570000000001,"body":"version of ourself that we show the world,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":893.2570000000001,"endTime":907.178,"body":"persona for your aging granny than it is"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":893.2570000000001,"endTime":907.178,"body":"for the girl who pours beer behind the"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":908.018,"endTime":914.018,"body":"And what, what Jung wanted to say"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":908.018,"endTime":914.018,"body":"is that they're all appropriate and"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":914.668,"endTime":925.2320000000001,"body":"Except when they're not, because"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":914.668,"endTime":925.2320000000001,"body":"that is part of the theory is that we"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":926.672,"endTime":927.652,"body":"Or me just showing off."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":927.802,"endTime":930.8420000000001,"body":"Yes, my persona as the posh Latin one."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":931.1120000000001,"endTime":931.3520000000001,"body":"No."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":931.452,"endTime":948.5120000000001,"body":"You can have either, we will all be"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":931.452,"endTime":948.5120000000001,"body":"showing ourselves to the world in one"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":948.9620000000001,"endTime":960.1220000000001,"body":"and match the real self the better, but"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":948.9620000000001,"endTime":960.1220000000001,"body":"still recognizing that there are times"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":960.6320000000001,"endTime":966.302,"body":"So if you were going for tea with the"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":960.6320000000001,"endTime":966.302,"body":"Queen, you'd probably be less real."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":967.532,"endTime":970.485,"body":"Then, if you're going to the pub"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":967.532,"endTime":970.485,"body":"with your mates for most people."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":971.3770000000001,"endTime":978.2080000000001,"body":"But some people are not terribly"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":971.3770000000001,"endTime":978.2080000000001,"body":"real when they're out in the"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":978.2130000000001,"endTime":980.368,"body":"So that's something to work on."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":980.798,"endTime":992.493,"body":"It is because if we're not"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":980.798,"endTime":992.493,"body":"connecting to ourself, if we're not"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":992.793,"endTime":999.2330000000001,"body":"If anybody likes you, it's not the"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":992.793,"endTime":999.2330000000001,"body":"real you, they like, it's this persona"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":999.283,"endTime":1005.283,"body":"if that persona is still a part of"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":999.283,"endTime":1005.283,"body":"us, it's still you, then it is you"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1006.258,"endTime":1015.144,"body":"And even if you are being fake,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1006.258,"endTime":1015.144,"body":"but they like you, then that can"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1016.0120000000001,"endTime":1023.8820000000001,"body":"As you were talking, then my"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1016.0120000000001,"endTime":1023.8820000000001,"body":"mind went off towards the celebrity"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1023.8820000000001,"endTime":1026.502,"body":"So much of the time, these days."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1027.742,"endTime":1030.442,"body":"And then we have, what do they call it?"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1030.532,"endTime":1035.362,"body":"Something reality, adapted"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1030.532,"endTime":1035.362,"body":"reality or augmented reality."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1036.142,"endTime":1037.792,"body":"That's it augmented reality."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1037.792,"endTime":1038.212,"body":"Isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1038.782,"endTime":1046.912,"body":"So you have people on these sorts"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1038.782,"endTime":1046.912,"body":"of shows who are pretending to be"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1047.333,"endTime":1047.693,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1047.708,"endTime":1049.898,"body":"That's very weird."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1050.054,"endTime":1050.444,"body":"Isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1050.534,"endTime":1055.224,"body":"I mean, it's, it's just weird, bizarre,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1050.534,"endTime":1055.224,"body":"the idea this could be entertainment."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1055.4089999999999,"endTime":1063.6589999999999,"body":"The people that have been"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1055.4089999999999,"endTime":1063.6589999999999,"body":"involved in that they've publicly,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1063.6589999999999,"endTime":1074.129,"body":"to be themselves and acting at the same"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1063.6589999999999,"endTime":1074.129,"body":"time, but don't act like the real, you,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1074.489,"endTime":1076.1989999999998,"body":"This is the story we want to say."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1076.1989999999998,"endTime":1085.379,"body":"So act that out and then they'll do it"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1076.1989999999998,"endTime":1085.379,"body":"again and go, no, but this time, do it"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1086.869,"endTime":1088.509,"body":"And they then very muddled"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1089.369,"endTime":1089.849,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1089.9089999999999,"endTime":1096.4489999999998,"body":"Cuz then they lose themselves cuz"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1089.9089999999999,"endTime":1096.4489999999998,"body":"they know the outside world sees me"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1096.479,"endTime":1100.769,"body":"This is who I've got to be, but"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1096.479,"endTime":1100.769,"body":"this isn't who I want to be."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1101.729,"endTime":1103.9489999999998,"body":"And that's, that's been painful for them."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1104.369,"endTime":1109.799,"body":"then that leads me to the idea"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1104.369,"endTime":1109.799,"body":"of social media and how so many people."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1110.8039999999999,"endTime":1112.5439999999999,"body":"Not all by any means."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1112.694,"endTime":1121.541,"body":"A lot of people feel that they have to"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1112.694,"endTime":1121.541,"body":"show a certain version of themselves to"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1121.841,"endTime":1124.781,"body":"So that's really is putting on a persona."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1125.251,"endTime":1131.291,"body":"We see it with body shape, hair,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1125.251,"endTime":1131.291,"body":"makeup, clothes, locations."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1133.271,"endTime":1141.956,"body":"Backdrops, filters, all of these"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1133.271,"endTime":1141.956,"body":"things that people are doing"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1142.866,"endTime":1144.466,"body":"Do you love me like this?"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1145.2659999999998,"endTime":1148.951,"body":"Which by definition"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1145.2659999999998,"endTime":1148.951,"body":"is not, it's not real."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1148.956,"endTime":1149.521,"body":"Is it?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1149.671,"endTime":1158.521,"body":"Yeah, that's when social"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1149.671,"endTime":1158.521,"body":"media, Isn't used for the right reasons"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1158.521,"endTime":1169.441,"body":"never been in such a good position"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1158.521,"endTime":1169.441,"body":"in the world, this period right now,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1169.501,"endTime":1171.511,"body":"I mean, living in it, you"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1169.501,"endTime":1171.511,"body":"might not realize that."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1171.751,"endTime":1174.6409999999998,"body":"Cause we do look around sometimes"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1171.751,"endTime":1174.6409999999998,"body":"and go things look a bit crap."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1175.1209999999999,"endTime":1176.741,"body":"Oh, there's been lots of crappy times."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1176.741,"endTime":1177.281,"body":"Don't worry."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1177.341,"endTime":1186.6409999999998,"body":"This is still the best it's ever been and"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1177.341,"endTime":1186.6409999999998,"body":"hopefully it's gonna get even better, but"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1187.211,"endTime":1189.461,"body":"To use social media, to"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1187.211,"endTime":1189.461,"body":"connect with each other."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1189.8909999999998,"endTime":1191.5059999999999,"body":"To create a sense of belonging."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1192.1029999999998,"endTime":1193.453,"body":"That's what it should be used for."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1195.243,"endTime":1201.0929999999998,"body":"I was talking to a colleague"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1195.243,"endTime":1201.0929999999998,"body":"just this morning about social"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1201.596,"endTime":1206.003,"body":"And I think it is worth recognizing"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1201.596,"endTime":1206.003,"body":"that there's two different"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1206.543,"endTime":1212.1129999999998,"body":"One is in my book is to be yourself"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1206.543,"endTime":1212.1129999999998,"body":"and to connect with other people."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1212.953,"endTime":1226.0629999999999,"body":"So for example, I was at a wedding few"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1212.953,"endTime":1226.0629999999999,"body":"days ago, posted pictures of the wedding"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1227.138,"endTime":1227.348,"body":"Hmm."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1227.713,"endTime":1228.5529999999999,"body":"I wasn't in the picture."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1228.673,"endTime":1230.5629999999999,"body":"But I didn't need to be in the"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1228.673,"endTime":1230.5629999999999,"body":"picture cuz it wasn't about me."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1230.5629999999999,"endTime":1231.253,"body":"It wasn't my wedding."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1231.643,"endTime":1242.0729999999999,"body":"But that's the connection to other"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1231.643,"endTime":1242.0729999999999,"body":"people and other people who were there"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1242.793,"endTime":1248.0819999999999,"body":"But then you've also got the use of social"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1242.793,"endTime":1248.0819999999999,"body":"media to get a message out, and to say."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1248.604,"endTime":1257.7839999999999,"body":"In whatever business you are in,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1248.604,"endTime":1257.7839999999999,"body":"whether it is as a therapist, whether"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1258.1689999999999,"endTime":1263.781,"body":"and in that context, that's like any"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1258.1689999999999,"endTime":1263.781,"body":"other marketing, they're building a brand."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1264.591,"endTime":1272.653,"body":"So I suppose it's sort of, don't be fooled"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1264.591,"endTime":1272.653,"body":"into thinking that the one that's building"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1273.068,"endTime":1274.328,"body":"That's building a brand."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1274.778,"endTime":1278.348,"body":"Then that ties into the idea"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1274.778,"endTime":1278.348,"body":"of a persona, a persona."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1278.6779999999999,"endTime":1280.598,"body":"That is your brand."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1280.768,"endTime":1282.058,"body":"That's when it goes off."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1282.9879999999998,"endTime":1284.278,"body":"That's when it goes wonky."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1284.953,"endTime":1285.3629999999998,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1286.915,"endTime":1288.4379999999999,"body":"I'm a cheery chappy."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1289.4279999999999,"endTime":1294.214,"body":"And we've mentioned this before"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1289.4279999999999,"endTime":1294.214,"body":"a couple of episodes ago that"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1294.244,"endTime":1298.024,"body":"And I, you probably remember"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1294.244,"endTime":1298.024,"body":"where that came from."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1298.524,"endTime":1302.0739999999998,"body":"There's been a few training courses"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1298.524,"endTime":1302.0739999999998,"body":"that I've been on over the years."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1302.404,"endTime":1307.124,"body":"And if, if I've had to, co-present"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1302.404,"endTime":1307.124,"body":"some presentation with somebody, I"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1307.484,"endTime":1309.3339999999998,"body":"Must have been 10, 15 years"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1307.484,"endTime":1309.3339999999998,"body":"ago, something like that."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1309.754,"endTime":1313.029,"body":"And I was doing a presentation"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1309.754,"endTime":1313.029,"body":"with trying to remember who it was."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1313.4489999999998,"endTime":1318.249,"body":"It was good old Christian"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1313.4489999999998,"endTime":1318.249,"body":"Baker, good old Christian Baker"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1318.254,"endTime":1318.759,"body":"Great guy."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1319.299,"endTime":1325.049,"body":"And we were doing a presentation"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1319.299,"endTime":1325.049,"body":"together and our two characters"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1325.539,"endTime":1327.181,"body":"Out of the Winnie the pooh characters."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1327.451,"endTime":1335.221,"body":"I'm definitely the Tigger bouncing around"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1327.451,"endTime":1335.221,"body":"the stage and he's, he was trying to"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1335.221,"endTime":1338.491,"body":"He was more, I forget which"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1335.221,"endTime":1338.491,"body":"Winnie the pooh character."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1338.941,"endTime":1343.321,"body":"He ended up getting the label of, but"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1338.941,"endTime":1343.321,"body":"I think it was wise it was the owl."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1343.321,"endTime":1347.431,"body":"It may well have been the owl"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1343.321,"endTime":1347.431,"body":"that was like, okay, let's just"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1348.031,"endTime":1349.951,"body":"And that Tigger, character."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1350.491,"endTime":1358.774,"body":"That I brought out and show I realize"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1350.491,"endTime":1358.774,"body":"is the real me that isn't a persona."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1359.444,"endTime":1361.7839999999999,"body":"And for a long time, I thought it was."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1362.264,"endTime":1368.354,"body":"That I needed to just play"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1362.264,"endTime":1368.354,"body":"this character in order to be"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1368.759,"endTime":1374.309,"body":"This is the persona that I created,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1368.759,"endTime":1374.309,"body":"and this is the one that people seem to"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1375.359,"endTime":1382.825,"body":"And actually the more that I did,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1375.359,"endTime":1382.825,"body":"the more comfortable I became"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1383.245,"endTime":1395.695,"body":"Or rather, as my self-esteem went"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1383.245,"endTime":1395.695,"body":"up, the more I could allow that real"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1395.725,"endTime":1403.3149999999998,"body":"It's okay, but I'm not Tigger 24 hours a"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1395.725,"endTime":1403.3149999999998,"body":"day for every single person that I see."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1403.645,"endTime":1409.225,"body":"I'm not Tigger at work with a"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1403.645,"endTime":1409.225,"body":"client in front of me telling me"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1409.945,"endTime":1412.125,"body":"That would be, that would be horrible."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1412.705,"endTime":1413.3049999999998,"body":"I mean, maybe there."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1413.8149999999998,"endTime":1415.3149999999998,"body":"Top now maybe I am."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1415.375,"endTime":1415.915,"body":"I don't know."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1416.0649999999998,"endTime":1422.395,"body":"This is something for me to bring"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1416.0649999999998,"endTime":1422.395,"body":"up in supervision next Fiona But cuz"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1422.3999999999999,"endTime":1428.896,"body":"consulting room and my clients know that"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1422.3999999999999,"endTime":1428.896,"body":"cuz they've listened to my podcast or"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1428.896,"endTime":1434.0259999999998,"body":"I know this guy is genuine when"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1428.896,"endTime":1434.0259999999998,"body":"he is with me, but this version"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1434.0259999999998,"endTime":1437.356,"body":"This part of him, the one that can"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1434.0259999999998,"endTime":1437.356,"body":"sit in silence and say nothing."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1438.046,"endTime":1444.0159999999998,"body":"And just wait for them to open"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1438.046,"endTime":1444.0159999999998,"body":"up patiently, not judging them,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1444.586,"endTime":1445.7859999999998,"body":"That's a real me as well."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1445.791,"endTime":1448.936,"body":"I don't have to fill in the"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1445.791,"endTime":1448.936,"body":"gaps with something bouncy."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1448.936,"endTime":1448.9959999999999,"body":"Woo."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1450.196,"endTime":1451.2259999999999,"body":"I don't need to do that."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1451.2259999999999,"endTime":1451.7459999999999,"body":"But they're all me."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1452.926,"endTime":1464.309,"body":"That is a, I would say"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1452.926,"endTime":1464.309,"body":"brilliant example of the theory, in"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1464.6309999999999,"endTime":1467.913,"body":"But there is an element of this"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1464.6309999999999,"endTime":1467.913,"body":"theory that we haven't touched on yet."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1467.943,"endTime":1468.903,"body":"And we really must."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1468.903,"endTime":1469.5829999999999,"body":"The dark side?"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1470.253,"endTime":1472.293,"body":"The dark side, the shadow."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1472.983,"endTime":1473.993,"body":"Jung called it the shadow."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1474.55,"endTime":1480.874,"body":"I often like to think of the shadow as"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1474.55,"endTime":1480.874,"body":"being, not really as a shadow, but as"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1480.874,"endTime":1487.474,"body":"over your shoulder with, and it's gotta"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1480.874,"endTime":1487.474,"body":"be over your shoulder cuz it's behind"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1488.4189999999999,"endTime":1500.869,"body":"And that contains all the things"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1488.4189999999999,"endTime":1500.869,"body":"that either you don't like about"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1501.289,"endTime":1508.519,"body":"So you shove it all into this big"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1501.289,"endTime":1508.519,"body":"black sack, carry it over your shoulder"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1509.6989999999998,"endTime":1516.692,"body":"The thing is though that looking at"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1509.6989999999998,"endTime":1516.692,"body":"it is really quite a good idea from"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1517.3519999999999,"endTime":1527.672,"body":"And usually when people do have"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1517.3519999999999,"endTime":1527.672,"body":"a little look, they're surprised,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1528.212,"endTime":1531.1219999999998,"body":"Some of the things that are in"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1528.212,"endTime":1531.1219999999998,"body":"there don't need to be in there."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1532.022,"endTime":1534.572,"body":"And some of the things"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1532.022,"endTime":1534.572,"body":"that they fear being."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1534.985,"endTime":1546.2949999999998,"body":"Well, they know that they're not, if"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1534.985,"endTime":1546.2949999999998,"body":"they actually look at it, An example of"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1547.2549999999999,"endTime":1549.2949999999998,"body":"It's something that we are brought up."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1550.105,"endTime":1554.185,"body":"Don't show off, stop blowing your"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1550.105,"endTime":1554.185,"body":"own trumpet, sit down, be quiet."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1554.798,"endTime":1558.638,"body":"Don't talk about yourself, all"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1554.798,"endTime":1558.638,"body":"of that of stuff that we have."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1559.498,"endTime":1563.9679999999998,"body":"And so when people are told off,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1559.498,"endTime":1563.9679999999998,"body":"don't be too big for your boots."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1564.2379999999998,"endTime":1564.7179999999998,"body":"That's another."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1565.501,"endTime":1568.649,"body":"It gets shoved into the shadow."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1569.385,"endTime":1576.2859999999998,"body":"Whereas, well, a lot of the time,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1569.385,"endTime":1576.2859999999998,"body":"if people are proud of something"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1576.656,"endTime":1578.196,"body":"It's one of the"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1576.656,"endTime":1578.196,"body":"seven deadly sins though."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1578.454,"endTime":1578.984,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1579.263,"endTime":1581.873,"body":"And it shouldn't"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1579.263,"endTime":1581.873,"body":"be, we should be proud."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1582.9769999999999,"endTime":1585.4969999999998,"body":"I think there's a lot to be said"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1582.9769999999999,"endTime":1585.4969999999998,"body":"for a lot of the seven deadly sins."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1585.4969999999998,"endTime":1587.627,"body":"I love bit of sloth from time to time."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1587.837,"endTime":1589.337,"body":"Well, a lot of the time."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1591.3899999999999,"endTime":1600.088,"body":"But you need the three elements"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1591.3899999999999,"endTime":1600.088,"body":"to be complete in Jung's theory,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1600.1779999999999,"endTime":1608.2169999999999,"body":"Everybody's gonna have one and"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1600.1779999999999,"endTime":1608.2169999999999,"body":"never goes away, but a, a regular"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1608.5169999999998,"endTime":1616.963,"body":"Get to know the real self as much as"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1608.5169999999998,"endTime":1616.963,"body":"you can and use persona wisely to fit"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1616.963,"endTime":1617.548,"body":"Mm, yeah."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1617.9589999999998,"endTime":1621.734,"body":"So you feel safe and good"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1617.9589999999998,"endTime":1621.734,"body":"in whatever scenario you go into."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1623.214,"endTime":1627.133,"body":"And I think feeling"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1623.214,"endTime":1627.133,"body":"safe is  the key to all of this."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1627.9779999999998,"endTime":1637.9759999999999,"body":"Because a lot of our defense mechanisms"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1627.9779999999998,"endTime":1637.9759999999999,"body":"that our brain pulls on to try"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1638.9759999999999,"endTime":1646.8509999999999,"body":"If there's something there to help protect"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1638.9759999999999,"endTime":1646.8509999999999,"body":"us from anxiety, and it does protect us"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1647.211,"endTime":1649.731,"body":"Nothing's a problem"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1647.211,"endTime":1649.731,"body":"unless it causes problems."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1650.6309999999999,"endTime":1662.331,"body":"But if our defenses get in the way of"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1650.6309999999999,"endTime":1662.331,"body":"us living an authentic life and being"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1662.931,"endTime":1664.791,"body":"It's trying to keep us safe, but it's not."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1664.796,"endTime":1669.501,"body":"It's holding us back from happiness"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1664.796,"endTime":1669.501,"body":"and contentment and wellbeing."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1670.011,"endTime":1675.6509999999998,"body":"And we do need to look at our shadow"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1670.011,"endTime":1675.6509999999998,"body":"self to have a look what's in that bag."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1676.311,"endTime":1682.731,"body":"And then we can pull things out and"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1676.311,"endTime":1682.731,"body":"go, oh, actually I'm, as my wife said"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1682.731,"endTime":1691.598,"body":"think you are, you know, she said"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1682.731,"endTime":1691.598,"body":"to And it really did open up the,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1692.168,"endTime":1693.068,"body":"I suppose I'm not."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1693.6979999999999,"endTime":1695.033,"body":"Now it could, this was years ago."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1695.5929999999998,"endTime":1697.1589999999999,"body":"What I could have done"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1695.5929999999998,"endTime":1697.1589999999999,"body":"at that point is gone."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1697.1589999999999,"endTime":1698.9289999999999,"body":"Oh, I fooled you too."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1700.9689999999998,"endTime":1702.4089999999999,"body":"But fortunately I didn't."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1702.6789999999999,"endTime":1711.349,"body":"I realized with a bit of work and a bit of"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1702.6789999999999,"endTime":1711.349,"body":"therapy that I'm not as bad as I thought I"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1712.099,"endTime":1715.039,"body":"That actually I'm, I'm"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1712.099,"endTime":1715.039,"body":"one of the good ones here."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1715.309,"endTime":1716.539,"body":"I'm one of the good guys."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1716.569,"endTime":1719.7189999999998,"body":"I'm the, I'm the protagonist of my story."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1720.019,"endTime":1730.1989999999998,"body":"I'm not the antagonist at all, but"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1720.019,"endTime":1730.1989999999998,"body":"until you look in  your shadow sack"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1730.229,"endTime":1732.299,"body":"And what is there is forgivable."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1732.7459999999999,"endTime":1743.456,"body":"We don't become our true selves and"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1732.7459999999999,"endTime":1743.456,"body":"we do hold back from connections"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1743.456,"endTime":1749.683,"body":"And, I think we all need to explore"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1743.456,"endTime":1749.683,"body":"all of these things in order to be a"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1751.7079999999999,"endTime":1755.7949999999998,"body":"There there's my little bit of"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1751.7079999999999,"endTime":1755.7949999999998,"body":"self-disclosure for the day."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1757.097,"endTime":1758.087,"body":"Pretty, good summary."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1758.933,"endTime":1767.0929999999998,"body":"That of course you were hinting at it, but"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1758.933,"endTime":1767.0929999999998,"body":"didn't explicitly say it, that that ties"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1767.0929999999998,"endTime":1775.043,"body":"are those impulses there that we might"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1767.0929999999998,"endTime":1775.043,"body":"be afraid might get out if we don't keep"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1775.983,"endTime":1783.725,"body":"and then just going back to the"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1775.983,"endTime":1783.725,"body":"idea of the, The, the not allowing"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1784.1219999999998,"endTime":1798.764,"body":"I won't name the person, but a"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1784.1219999999998,"endTime":1798.764,"body":"famous person famous, not just for"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1798.764,"endTime":1802.274,"body":"So the bedroom light was always off."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1803.024,"endTime":1805.214,"body":"And I just find that so sad."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1805.889,"endTime":1815.4589999999998,"body":"That just not able to be real, not"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1805.889,"endTime":1815.4589999999998,"body":"able to reveal her real self in"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1816.479,"endTime":1817.229,"body":"in that way."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1818.532,"endTime":1819.252,"body":"Oh, what a shame."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1819.8819999999998,"endTime":1820.212,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1821.442,"endTime":1821.6219999999998,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1821.627,"endTime":1822.762,"body":"We, we shouldn't live that way."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1824.442,"endTime":1835.192,"body":"Well, Fiona, this is a topic that"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1824.442,"endTime":1835.192,"body":"takes way more than one, as close"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1835.599,"endTime":1836.704,"body":"And I feel we say that a lot"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1836.704,"endTime":1837.204,"body":"We do."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1837.254,"endTime":1837.57,"body":"We do."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1837.57,"endTime":1842.01,"body":"We find out don't we, but I use this"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1837.57,"endTime":1842.01,"body":"theory in my work a lot of the time."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1842.524,"endTime":1849.829,"body":"it's a useful theory to hang"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1842.524,"endTime":1849.829,"body":"your hat on quite often in"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1849.989,"endTime":1852.839,"body":"So it's very very, useful."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1853.712,"endTime":1854.3419999999999,"body":"Keep it here."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1854.3419999999999,"endTime":1859.367,"body":"Therapy fans, because we will be returning"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1854.3419999999999,"endTime":1859.367,"body":"to this topic time and time again."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1859.9669999999999,"endTime":1862.277,"body":"In response to questions that you send in."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1862.277,"endTime":1866.2369999999999,"body":"So if you have any questions that"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1862.277,"endTime":1866.2369999999999,"body":"you want to send us, feel free to do."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1866.2369999999999,"endTime":1871.3619999999999,"body":"So there is a link in the show notes to a"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1866.2369999999999,"endTime":1871.3619999999999,"body":"form on my website that you can fill in."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1871.3919999999998,"endTime":1876.3419999999999,"body":"Ask us a question and we'll see"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1871.3919999999998,"endTime":1876.3419999999999,"body":"if we can get you featured in some"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1876.8819999999998,"endTime":1882.652,"body":"So we better go any final words"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1876.8819999999998,"endTime":1882.652,"body":"before we disappear, Fiona."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1884.024,"endTime":1889.5439999999999,"body":"no,  don't have any Uh, just to"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1884.024,"endTime":1889.5439999999999,"body":"say, you can submit questions anonymously."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1889.5439999999999,"endTime":1896.264,"body":"I know regular listeners will know that,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1889.5439999999999,"endTime":1896.264,"body":"but if you're new, you might not realize"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1896.5939999999998,"endTime":1898.424,"body":"And we will just refer to you as such"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1899.472,"endTime":1900.192,"body":"Or change your name?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1900.5819999999999,"endTime":1901.032,"body":"It's fine."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1902.322,"endTime":1903.3419999999999,"body":"call yourself what you want."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1903.3419999999999,"endTime":1904.3319999999999,"body":"It really doesn't matter."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1906.162,"endTime":1908.982,"body":"Right everybody let's"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1906.162,"endTime":1908.982,"body":"disappear off for today."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1909.155,"endTime":1911.3149999999998,"body":"As always, we'll be back next week."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1911.32,"endTime":1911.825,"body":"I'm sure."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1912.3049999999998,"endTime":1917.8,"body":"Have a super week  be good to yourself"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1912.3049999999998,"endTime":1917.8,"body":"and be good to everybody else."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1917.83,"endTime":1919.72,"body":"And let's see if we can make"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1917.83,"endTime":1919.72,"body":"the world a better place."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1919.97,"endTime":1921.08,"body":"Have a good un folks"}]}