{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":39.635,"endTime":42.875,"body":"Hello, fellow"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":39.635,"endTime":42.875,"body":"humans and all those"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":42.875,"endTime":43.805,"body":"pretending to be one."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":44.075,"endTime":47.105000000000004,"body":"This is the Therapy"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":44.075,"endTime":47.105000000000004,"body":"Natters podcast, where two"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":47.105000000000004,"endTime":50.705,"body":"psychotherapists talk about"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":47.105000000000004,"endTime":50.705,"body":"all sorts of psychotherapy and"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":50.705,"endTime":52.475,"body":"mental health related stuff."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":52.955,"endTime":55.325,"body":"For no other reason"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":52.955,"endTime":55.325,"body":"than to simply 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I"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":83.703,"endTime":83.80199999999999,"body":"must have pulled a face."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":83.85300000000001,"endTime":85.75800000000001,"body":"A querying face."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":85.813,"endTime":89.983,"body":"And she said, because my"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":85.813,"endTime":89.983,"body":"dog loves it, she said."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":90.40299999999999,"endTime":92.963,"body":"That I press play on one"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":90.40299999999999,"endTime":92.963,"body":"of your recordings from"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":92.963,"endTime":96.50300000000001,"body":"the YouTube channel that"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":92.963,"endTime":96.50300000000001,"body":"you have subscribers,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":97.43299999999999,"endTime":98.12299999999999,"body":"please go, listen."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":98.18299999999999,"endTime":99.62299999999999,"body":"It's there links me"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":98.18299999999999,"endTime":99.62299999999999,"body":"in the show notes."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":100.19300000000001,"endTime":104.328,"body":"Um, she said, my dog, would"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":100.19300000000001,"endTime":104.328,"body":"recognize what I was listening"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":104.328,"endTime":106.638,"body":"to, and then they'd come"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":104.328,"endTime":106.638,"body":"and line next to me and, and"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":106.638,"endTime":107.988,"body":"they would relax as well."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":108.37800000000001,"endTime":109.804,"body":"And they loved it."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":110.40899999999999,"endTime":111.78899999999999,"body":"Is my dog being 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tick."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":243.932,"endTime":245.28199999999998,"body":"I, I can't be a bad thing."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":245.822,"endTime":247.53199999999998,"body":"You'll see how you fit in."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":248.387,"endTime":254.207,"body":"With everybody else then, and"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":248.387,"endTime":254.207,"body":"become more differentiated."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":254.357,"endTime":257.987,"body":"You you're able to work out"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":254.357,"endTime":257.987,"body":"the difference between your"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":257.987,"endTime":259.847,"body":"thoughts and your feelings."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":259.907,"endTime":261.617,"body":"And I think that that's"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":259.907,"endTime":261.617,"body":"really important."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":261.97700000000003,"endTime":266.117,"body":"Differentiation was, um, I"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":261.97700000000003,"endTime":266.117,"body":"think it was Murray Bowen,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":266.327,"endTime":268.607,"body":"who first used that phrase."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":268.607,"endTime":270.467,"body":"I always associate it"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":268.607,"endTime":270.467,"body":"with Murray Bowen anyway"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":270.607,"endTime":272.47700000000003,"body":"differentiation, and he"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":270.607,"endTime":272.47700000000003,"body":"used it for two different"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":272.507,"endTime":277.172,"body":"meanings to differentiate"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":272.507,"endTime":277.172,"body":"yourself from other people."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":277.172,"endTime":279.782,"body":"So you're not so enmeshed"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":277.172,"endTime":279.782,"body":"with your family in the"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":279.782,"endTime":283.532,"body":"family system, but also to"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":279.782,"endTime":283.532,"body":"differentiate your thoughts"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":283.562,"endTime":287.192,"body":"from your feelings and"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":283.562,"endTime":287.192,"body":"all these years later."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":287.192,"endTime":288.152,"body":"Cause I was in the seventies."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":288.752,"endTime":291.152,"body":"How popular is that as"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":288.752,"endTime":291.152,"body":"an Instagram poster of"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":291.152,"endTime":295.682,"body":"social media cliche, that"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":291.152,"endTime":295.682,"body":"you are not your thoughts."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":295.682,"endTime":297.602,"body":"You are not your"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":295.682,"endTime":297.602,"body":"feelings, your, your"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":297.602,"endTime":298.712,"body":"feelings are not reality."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":298.712,"endTime":300.092,"body":"Your thoughts are not reality."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":300.302,"endTime":301.222,"body":"It's all about"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":300.302,"endTime":301.222,"body":"differentiation."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":301.772,"endTime":302.61199999999997,"body":"I think it's quite useful."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":303.827,"endTime":304.817,"body":"I'm impressed."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":305.057,"endTime":307.307,"body":"Really impressed Richard,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":305.057,"endTime":307.307,"body":"because you've done the"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":307.307,"endTime":308.98699999999997,"body":"segue into our questions."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":308.98699999999997,"endTime":311.087,"body":"Haven't you sneakily?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":311.222,"endTime":312.632,"body":"I'm a bit"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":311.222,"endTime":312.632,"body":"sneaky like that."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":312.692,"endTime":313.11199999999997,"body":"Yeah, it,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":313.427,"endTime":315.257,"body":"I, I wish our listeners"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":313.427,"endTime":315.257,"body":"could have seen the look on"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":315.257,"endTime":316.307,"body":"his face when he did that."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":316.337,"endTime":320.387,"body":"Cuz it was, it was it"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":316.337,"endTime":320.387,"body":"was look what I'm doing."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":321.34499999999997,"endTime":323.175,"body":"I blagged 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honors?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":333.375,"endTime":333.915,"body":"read them out?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":334.425,"endTime":334.635,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":334.635,"endTime":334.84499999999997,"body":"One"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":335.01,"endTime":335.46,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":335.46,"endTime":338.15999999999997,"body":"So we've got two along the"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":335.46,"endTime":338.15999999999997,"body":"same lines as each other."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":338.15999999999997,"endTime":342.54,"body":"So the first one is"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":338.15999999999997,"endTime":342.54,"body":"from first job Felicity."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":343.046,"endTime":346.646,"body":"Her question is I have just"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":343.046,"endTime":346.646,"body":"recently started working"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":346.646,"endTime":349.88599999999997,"body":"and 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compelling"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":365.771,"endTime":367.871,"body":"need to win everyone over?"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":368.651,"endTime":371.081,"body":"I am already dreading"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":368.651,"endTime":371.081,"body":"work, even though it"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":371.086,"endTime":372.131,"body":"hasn't been a week."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":372.911,"endTime":375.221,"body":"Oh, I feel sad Felicity."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":375.671,"endTime":376.031,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":376.811,"endTime":379.691,"body":"We'll come back to it,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":376.811,"endTime":379.691,"body":"but Steph's question second"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":379.69599999999997,"endTime":383.471,"body":"one from Steph, can you make"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":379.69599999999997,"endTime":383.471,"body":"a podcast around dealing 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it."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":418.61199999999997,"endTime":422.689,"body":"But then in first job,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":418.61199999999997,"endTime":422.689,"body":"Felicities there's a lot"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":422.694,"endTime":427.969,"body":"of extra elements to it,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":422.694,"endTime":427.969,"body":"including her own phrase of"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":427.969,"endTime":432.469,"body":"why do I feel so triggered by"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":427.969,"endTime":432.469,"body":"this rather than just noticing"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":432.474,"endTime":435.289,"body":"that these things exist and"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":432.474,"endTime":435.289,"body":"what to do about it, something"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":435.289,"endTime":437.569,"body":"there about her own feelings."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":437.884,"endTime":438.694,"body":"Being triggered."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":439.692,"endTime":442.122,"body":"So how does this tie into"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":439.692,"endTime":442.122,"body":"the differentiation you were"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":442.122,"endTime":443.262,"body":"just describing Richard?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":444.137,"endTime":447.807,"body":"Well, even back"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":444.137,"endTime":447.807,"body":"when Murray Bowen was first"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":448.137,"endTime":452.42,"body":"looking at this as, as what"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":448.137,"endTime":452.42,"body":"he then termed family systems"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":452.48,"endTime":457.64,"body":"theory and how, for example,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":452.48,"endTime":457.64,"body":"he was, I think he was gonna,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":457.79,"endTime":460.04,"body":"he was gonna be doing things"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":457.79,"endTime":460.04,"body":"for social workers and, and"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":460.25,"endTime":463.04,"body":"there were problems with"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":460.25,"endTime":463.04,"body":"the behavior of a child,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":463.13,"endTime":466.55,"body":"for example, but the, the"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":463.13,"endTime":466.55,"body":"problem wasn't the child,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":466.55,"endTime":468.11,"body":"the problem was the system."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":468.485,"endTime":469.385,"body":"It was the system."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":469.385,"endTime":470.255,"body":"That was the problem."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":470.585,"endTime":474.605,"body":"And we do often find that"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":470.585,"endTime":474.605,"body":"if parents having problem"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":474.605,"endTime":478.925,"body":"in their relationships,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":474.605,"endTime":478.925,"body":"they need, they need a"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":478.925,"endTime":483.425,"body":"scapegoat, potentially they"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":478.925,"endTime":483.425,"body":"need a re another reason"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":483.78499999999997,"endTime":486.03499999999997,"body":"for there to be problems."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":486.605,"endTime":488.405,"body":"And there is this"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":486.605,"endTime":488.405,"body":"sort of triangulation."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":489.545,"endTime":493.455,"body":"And what Murray Bowen was"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":489.545,"endTime":493.455,"body":"noticing is that if somebody"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":493.455,"endTime":498.0,"body":"had those problems in their"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":493.455,"endTime":498.0,"body":"family, Those feelings when"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":498.0,"endTime":500.07,"body":"that child then grew up"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":498.0,"endTime":500.07,"body":"a little bit, or even if"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":500.07,"endTime":501.69,"body":"they hadn't, the problem"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":500.07,"endTime":501.69,"body":"is still going on because"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":501.69,"endTime":504.59999999999997,"body":"these things don't end,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":501.69,"endTime":504.59999999999997,"body":"you know, they carry on"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":504.59999999999997,"endTime":506.76,"body":"throughout our adult life"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":504.59999999999997,"endTime":506.76,"body":"cuz you know, our family's,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":506.765,"endTime":507.57,"body":"the system is still the same."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":508.614,"endTime":510.534,"body":"That person takes"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":508.614,"endTime":510.534,"body":"those feelings into the"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":510.534,"endTime":511.644,"body":"workplace with them."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":511.824,"endTime":514.734,"body":"So actually they're"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":511.824,"endTime":514.734,"body":"transferring the, the way"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":514.734,"endTime":518.244,"body":"that they feel at home into"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":514.734,"endTime":518.244,"body":"the workplace and their"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":518.249,"endTime":520.434,"body":"brain is being primed for."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":520.974,"endTime":523.404,"body":"So let's see where, why"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":520.974,"endTime":523.404,"body":"I'm the scapegoat here?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":523.409,"endTime":524.724,"body":"Why am I the problem here?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":524.934,"endTime":527.8140000000001,"body":"For example, that's, that's"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":524.934,"endTime":527.8140000000001,"body":"some of the things that jumped"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":527.8140000000001,"endTime":529.1940000000001,"body":"out at me when I read those."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":530.229,"endTime":533.4150000000001,"body":"And if you take"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":530.229,"endTime":533.4150000000001,"body":"that theory and see that it"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":533.4150000000001,"endTime":538.4250000000001,"body":"applies to everyone, because"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":533.4150000000001,"endTime":538.4250000000001,"body":"everybody has been part of"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":538.4250000000001,"endTime":544.623,"body":"some sort of family system,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":538.4250000000001,"endTime":544.623,"body":"whether it's just two people,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":544.623,"endTime":547.863,"body":"a parent and a child, or"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":544.623,"endTime":547.863,"body":"a guardian and a child,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":548.485,"endTime":554.1160000000001,"body":"or right up to, you know,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":548.485,"endTime":554.1160000000001,"body":"massive families with loads"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":554.1160000000001,"endTime":558.97,"body":"of, cousins and all rest, you"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":554.1160000000001,"endTime":558.97,"body":"know, there could be a huge"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":558.97,"endTime":563.95,"body":"variation, but everybody's"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":558.97,"endTime":563.95,"body":"part of some family system."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":564.4000000000001,"endTime":568.36,"body":"And everybody has a role"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":564.4000000000001,"endTime":568.36,"body":"within that family system."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":568.75,"endTime":574.3000000000001,"body":"If everyone is taking that"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":568.75,"endTime":574.3000000000001,"body":"into the workplace, Ooh,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":574.36,"endTime":575.59,"body":"that's a bit complicated."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":575.59,"endTime":576.07,"body":"Isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":576.404,"endTime":581.714,"body":"So in Felicity's case,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":576.404,"endTime":581.714,"body":"she's got these things"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":581.714,"endTime":583.604,"body":"that she's aware of."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":583.609,"endTime":586.214,"body":"So she is differentiating"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":583.609,"endTime":586.214,"body":"because she's seeing"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":586.214,"endTime":590.024,"body":"herself separate from"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":586.214,"endTime":590.024,"body":"that system isn't she?"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":590.029,"endTime":595.5740000000001,"body":"But, um, I suppose one thing"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":590.029,"endTime":595.5740000000001,"body":"that just screams out at"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":595.5740000000001,"endTime":601.8240000000001,"body":"me from this is, well, duh"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":595.5740000000001,"endTime":601.8240000000001,"body":"there are going, there are,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":601.8290000000001,"endTime":603.104,"body":"I mean, I'm sorry, Felicity."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":603.104,"endTime":605.0840000000001,"body":"I don't mean to say,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":603.104,"endTime":605.0840000000001,"body":"make that sound really."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":605.4290000000001,"endTime":606.6890000000001,"body":"little"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":605.4290000000001,"endTime":606.6890000000001,"body":"belittling there."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":606.884,"endTime":608.8340000000001,"body":"I mean to make"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":606.884,"endTime":608.8340000000001,"body":"it sound like that."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":610.2890000000001,"endTime":613.9190000000001,"body":"Well, yeah, there's going"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":610.2890000000001,"endTime":613.9190000000001,"body":"to be, and I I'll give you"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":613.9190000000001,"endTime":617.392,"body":"a hug, as I say it, there's"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":613.9190000000001,"endTime":617.392,"body":"going to be, microaggressions"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":617.452,"endTime":619.2220000000001,"body":"and not just micro."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":619.595,"endTime":624.065,"body":"there are going to be,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":619.595,"endTime":624.065,"body":"people battling for power."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":624.311,"endTime":626.821,"body":"Most people have"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":624.311,"endTime":626.821,"body":"got some sort of agenda."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":626.9860000000001,"endTime":627.346,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":628.066,"endTime":628.426,"body":"Well,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":628.711,"endTime":629.3710000000001,"body":"really do."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":629.5600000000001,"endTime":632.23,"body":"has agenda because"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":629.5600000000001,"endTime":632.23,"body":"everybody's there for"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":632.235,"endTime":633.6400000000001,"body":"their own reasons."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":634.215,"endTime":638.11,"body":"And being able to"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":634.215,"endTime":638.11,"body":"step outside of that and see."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":638.6690000000001,"endTime":640.469,"body":"that person's got"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":638.6690000000001,"endTime":640.469,"body":"their own agenda."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":640.7090000000001,"endTime":642.3290000000001,"body":"It's not necessarily"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":640.7090000000001,"endTime":642.3290000000001,"body":"a negative one."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":642.4190000000001,"endTime":643.9190000000001,"body":"It's not necessarily"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":642.4190000000001,"endTime":643.9190000000001,"body":"a positive one."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":643.9490000000001,"endTime":645.149,"body":"It just is one."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":645.239,"endTime":649.4390000000001,"body":"Maybe their end goal is I"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":645.239,"endTime":649.4390000000001,"body":"just wanna pay the bills."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":649.529,"endTime":650.519,"body":"I just wanna be happy."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":650.849,"endTime":653.639,"body":"I just wanna overcome some"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":650.849,"endTime":653.639,"body":"of the insecurities I had"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":653.639,"endTime":657.359,"body":"when I was 15, whatever the"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":653.639,"endTime":657.359,"body":"reasons are, why somebody"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":658.619,"endTime":660.719,"body":"does what they  do and"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":658.619,"endTime":660.719,"body":"saying is what they say."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":661.619,"endTime":663.479,"body":"We've just gotta"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":661.619,"endTime":663.479,"body":"accept it to a degree."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":664.0340000000001,"endTime":665.864,"body":"And not take it personally."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":666.0740000000001,"endTime":667.094,"body":"That's the thing."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":667.094,"endTime":668.864,"body":"This isn't about you."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":669.269,"endTime":671.3090000000001,"body":"It's, it's the"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":669.269,"endTime":671.3090000000001,"body":"not taking it personally."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":671.3090000000001,"endTime":674.759,"body":"And there's a little"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":671.3090000000001,"endTime":674.759,"body":"element and I hesitate to"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":674.759,"endTime":679.739,"body":"say this, so please hang on"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":674.759,"endTime":679.739,"body":"till I finish  anybody who"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":679.744,"endTime":680.849,"body":"objects, what I'm gonna say."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":681.1790000000001,"endTime":682.499,"body":"There's a little bit"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":681.1790000000001,"endTime":682.499,"body":"of playing the game."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":683.118,"endTime":687.9480000000001,"body":"And by that, I mean that"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":683.118,"endTime":687.9480000000001,"body":"if you are able, as we're"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":687.9480000000001,"endTime":692.4780000000001,"body":"suggesting to differentiate"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":687.9480000000001,"endTime":692.4780000000001,"body":"to step outside it and see"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":693.138,"endTime":699.027,"body":"to look at what people's"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":693.138,"endTime":699.027,"body":"agendas are then to help"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":699.057,"endTime":701.2170000000001,"body":"each one where reasonable."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":702.027,"endTime":706.167,"body":"obviously anywhere"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":702.027,"endTime":706.167,"body":"reasonable with their agenda."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":706.167,"endTime":715.432,"body":"So if somebody, is clearly"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":706.167,"endTime":715.432,"body":"using work to, uh, feel some"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":715.432,"endTime":720.3520000000001,"body":"level of competence, which in"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":715.432,"endTime":720.3520000000001,"body":"Deci and Ryan's world is one"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":720.3520000000001,"endTime":723.172,"body":"of the things that you, you"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":720.3520000000001,"endTime":723.172,"body":"need for self determination."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":724.1320000000001,"endTime":726.961,"body":"If you, if somebody's"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":724.1320000000001,"endTime":726.961,"body":"doing that,   needing"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":726.961,"endTime":728.8810000000001,"body":"to feel competent, then"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":726.961,"endTime":728.8810000000001,"body":"when you notice that"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":728.8810000000001,"endTime":732.1210000000001,"body":"they've done something"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":728.8810000000001,"endTime":732.1210000000001,"body":"well, compliment them."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":733.176,"endTime":735.3960000000001,"body":"That's, that's a"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":733.176,"endTime":735.3960000000001,"body":"nice thing to do."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":736.316,"endTime":738.836,"body":"But on the other hand,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":736.316,"endTime":738.836,"body":"if somebody is the"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":738.836,"endTime":744.6260000000001,"body":"workplace bully, then that"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":738.836,"endTime":744.6260000000001,"body":"doesn't mean applauding"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":744.6260000000001,"endTime":745.7660000000001,"body":"them on their bullying."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":746.6350000000001,"endTime":751.3950000000001,"body":"That would be helping the"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":746.6350000000001,"endTime":751.3950000000001,"body":"person not to need to bully"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":752.0250000000001,"endTime":755.4150000000001,"body":"and helping any victims"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":752.0250000000001,"endTime":755.4150000000001,"body":"to not feel that they were"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":758.0400000000001,"endTime":758.46,"body":"Targets"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":758.565,"endTime":760.1850000000001,"body":"well, they"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":758.565,"endTime":760.1850000000001,"body":"might be targeted."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":760.485,"endTime":762.705,"body":"So you wanted them to"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":760.485,"endTime":762.705,"body":"not feel that they were"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":763.3950000000001,"endTime":764.1450000000001,"body":"to, make them feel that"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":764.235,"endTime":764.5350000000001,"body":"it's still"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":764.715,"endTime":765.705,"body":"not about them."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":766.065,"endTime":769.1550000000001,"body":"I remember years ago"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":766.065,"endTime":769.1550000000001,"body":"in a workplace where I"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":769.4250000000001,"endTime":772.325,"body":"worked with somebody,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":769.4250000000001,"endTime":772.325,"body":"Who was being targeted"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":772.325,"endTime":774.1850000000001,"body":"by the workplace bully."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":774.815,"endTime":777.125,"body":"And this was before I"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":774.815,"endTime":777.125,"body":"did any psychotherapeutic"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":777.125,"endTime":779.5550000000001,"body":"training, but I had been"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":777.125,"endTime":779.5550000000001,"body":"bullied when I was a kid."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":779.5550000000001,"endTime":782.315,"body":"So I think I"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":779.5550000000001,"endTime":782.315,"body":"naturally got some."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":782.6850000000001,"endTime":783.735,"body":"Awareness around it."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":784.125,"endTime":785.4150000000001,"body":"And that's what I did."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":785.4150000000001,"endTime":789.1650000000001,"body":"I, I sort of diffused what"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":785.4150000000001,"endTime":789.1650000000001,"body":"was coming from the bully."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":789.585,"endTime":791.8950000000001,"body":"I mean, to a very"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":789.585,"endTime":791.8950000000001,"body":"small extent, this"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":791.8950000000001,"endTime":793.095,"body":"was not a major thing."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":793.1550000000001,"endTime":796.995,"body":"Just little bits here and"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":793.1550000000001,"endTime":796.995,"body":"there to diffuse some of that."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":797.475,"endTime":799.575,"body":"And to boost the"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":797.475,"endTime":799.575,"body":"self-esteem of the person"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":799.58,"endTime":801.345,"body":"who was being bullied."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":801.735,"endTime":801.7950000000001,"body":"Oh,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":802.695,"endTime":806.0250000000001,"body":"Well, what Murray"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":802.695,"endTime":806.0250000000001,"body":"Bowen would say is that"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":806.557,"endTime":810.0790000000001,"body":"because of this triangulation,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":806.557,"endTime":810.0790000000001,"body":"There needs to be somebody"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":810.0790000000001,"endTime":811.249,"body":"else playing a part."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":812.1790000000001,"endTime":817.999,"body":"And so an aggressor, a"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":812.1790000000001,"endTime":817.999,"body":"bully, however, it is a"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":817.999,"endTime":823.379,"body":"critic they're going to want"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":817.999,"endTime":823.379,"body":"somebody on their side, a."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":823.9390000000001,"endTime":827.749,"body":"And that might be you, that"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":823.9390000000001,"endTime":827.749,"body":"they approach, hence the,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":827.8090000000001,"endTime":829.9390000000001,"body":"hence the gossip, hence"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":827.8090000000001,"endTime":829.9390000000001,"body":"some of the negativity."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":829.9390000000001,"endTime":835.729,"body":"I want you to join my opinion"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":829.9390000000001,"endTime":835.729,"body":"so we can gang up maybe"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":836.029,"endTime":839.2990000000001,"body":"on that other character"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":836.029,"endTime":839.2990000000001,"body":"and we have a choice."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":839.2990000000001,"endTime":844.1590000000001,"body":"Don't we in those situations,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":839.2990000000001,"endTime":844.1590000000001,"body":"do we, what role do we play?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":844.639,"endTime":846.529,"body":"Do we, do we join"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":844.639,"endTime":846.529,"body":"in with them?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":846.589,"endTime":847.5790000000001,"body":"Because they're"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":846.589,"endTime":847.5790000000001,"body":"looking for somebody"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":847.5790000000001,"endTime":850.1590000000001,"body":"to support their ideas."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":852.134,"endTime":857.845,"body":"we not in an ideal"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":852.134,"endTime":857.845,"body":"world, not I hope,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":857.98,"endTime":861.5200000000001,"body":"That brings me to"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":857.98,"endTime":861.5200000000001,"body":"that word cliques, which"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":861.97,"endTime":863.08,"body":"first job Felicity used."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":864.9200000000001,"endTime":869.0600000000001,"body":"And it's a, it's a, it's a"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":864.9200000000001,"endTime":869.0600000000001,"body":"very interesting word because"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":869.0600000000001,"endTime":873.5600000000001,"body":"it has such a negative"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":869.0600000000001,"endTime":873.5600000000001,"body":"connotation because it sort of"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":873.8000000000001,"endTime":877.436,"body":"seems to presume an exclusion."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":878.556,"endTime":881.8860000000001,"body":"If there's a clique,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":878.556,"endTime":881.8860000000001,"body":"then other people"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":881.8860000000001,"endTime":882.966,"body":"aren't allowed in it."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":883.7760000000001,"endTime":886.0260000000001,"body":"Somehow nobody says,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":883.7760000000001,"endTime":886.0260000000001,"body":"Hey, we've got a lovely"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":886.0260000000001,"endTime":889.206,"body":"clique going on here that"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":886.0260000000001,"endTime":889.206,"body":"doesn't sort of happen."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":889.206,"endTime":891.056,"body":"It's it's, they've"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":889.206,"endTime":891.056,"body":"got a clique."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":893.2560000000001,"endTime":897.696,"body":"societies divided into groups."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":898.176,"endTime":901.2660000000001,"body":"You know, we couldn't have the"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":898.176,"endTime":901.2660000000001,"body":"whole world in, in one group"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":901.2660000000001,"endTime":903.576,"body":"and everybody be equal and"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":903.726,"endTime":904.566,"body":"able to"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":903.726,"endTime":904.566,"body":"hear yourself."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":904.7460000000001,"endTime":906.726,"body":"it would"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":904.7460000000001,"endTime":906.726,"body":"absolutely impossible."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":907.596,"endTime":912.6980000000001,"body":"So I suppose my thought is"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":907.596,"endTime":912.6980000000001,"body":"start with a presumption that"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":912.7030000000001,"endTime":917.018,"body":"you are not excluded a group."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":918.1880000000001,"endTime":923.0300000000001,"body":"And if you do feel you're"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":918.1880000000001,"endTime":923.0300000000001,"body":"excluded to think for yourself"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":923.0300000000001,"endTime":927.3100000000001,"body":"as to why that might be,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":923.0300000000001,"endTime":927.3100000000001,"body":"is it you or is it them?"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":927.9100000000001,"endTime":928.99,"body":"Are they excluding you?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":929.08,"endTime":932.12,"body":"the"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":929.08,"endTime":932.12,"body":"differentiation this is,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":932.59,"endTime":935.5300000000001,"body":"these are my feelings,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":932.59,"endTime":935.5300000000001,"body":"but is it my reality?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":935.9200000000001,"endTime":938.974,"body":"And I remember when I first"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":935.9200000000001,"endTime":938.974,"body":"joined an amateur dramatic"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":938.974,"endTime":942.5880000000001,"body":"society , some of those,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":938.974,"endTime":942.5880000000001,"body":"those members that I started"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":942.5880000000001,"endTime":944.538,"body":"with back in 2003, some"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":942.5880000000001,"endTime":944.538,"body":"of them are still there."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":944.7180000000001,"endTime":946.278,"body":"Hello to you you're listening."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":946.278,"endTime":946.998,"body":"Cause I'm sure they do."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":946.998,"endTime":947.8080000000001,"body":"They're my friends and."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":949.8080000000001,"endTime":952.0880000000001,"body":"I was relatively young, one"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":949.8080000000001,"endTime":952.0880000000001,"body":"of the youngest in the group."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":952.0880000000001,"endTime":955.2750000000001,"body":"Now I'm one of the oldest"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":952.0880000000001,"endTime":955.2750000000001,"body":"I'm okay with that."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":955.2750000000001,"endTime":956.115,"body":"That's what happens."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":956.505,"endTime":960.705,"body":"But back then when I was,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":956.505,"endTime":960.705,"body":"you know, one of the youngest"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":960.705,"endTime":962.505,"body":"and there was maybe one or"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":960.705,"endTime":962.505,"body":"two that were younger than"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":962.505,"endTime":969.585,"body":"me, people did congregate"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":962.505,"endTime":969.585,"body":"in groups that were because"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":969.585,"endTime":970.695,"body":"they had things in common."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":972.375,"endTime":975.825,"body":"The ones that were under 30"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":972.375,"endTime":975.825,"body":"hung around together in one,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":976.6650000000001,"endTime":979.455,"body":"on one table and talked about"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":976.6650000000001,"endTime":979.455,"body":"what they watched on TV."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":979.455,"endTime":981.255,"body":"And they talked about the"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":979.455,"endTime":981.255,"body":"plays and they talked about"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":981.255,"endTime":982.9050000000001,"body":"the rehearsals and then"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":981.255,"endTime":982.9050000000001,"body":"some of the older folk"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":982.9050000000001,"endTime":983.9250000000001,"body":"would be at another corner."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":984.255,"endTime":987.317,"body":"And I remember somebody"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":984.255,"endTime":987.317,"body":"saying, I'm being pushed"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":987.317,"endTime":991.7180000000001,"body":"out, you're pushing me out"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":987.317,"endTime":991.7180000000001,"body":"and got really quite upset."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":991.8080000000001,"endTime":995.0880000000001,"body":"And I'd done my hypnotherapy"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":991.8080000000001,"endTime":995.0880000000001,"body":"training back in those days."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":995.4480000000001,"endTime":998.868,"body":"So I was able to sort of"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":995.4480000000001,"endTime":998.868,"body":"look at the reality a bit"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":998.868,"endTime":1001.118,"body":"more and, and, and rather"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":998.868,"endTime":1001.118,"body":"than cause everybody else"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1001.118,"endTime":1003.4580000000001,"body":"was, I think a little"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1001.118,"endTime":1003.4580000000001,"body":"bit angry, how dare you?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1003.548,"endTime":1004.388,"body":"How dare you."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1004.4480000000001,"endTime":1005.4380000000001,"body":"We didn't push you out."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1005.9480000000001,"endTime":1007.8080000000001,"body":"Which of course then"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1005.9480000000001,"endTime":1007.8080000000001,"body":"makes people feel more"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1007.8080000000001,"endTime":1009.7280000000001,"body":"excluded if people are"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1007.8080000000001,"endTime":1009.7280000000001,"body":"angry at each other."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1010.268,"endTime":1012.368,"body":"So I was able to step in"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1010.268,"endTime":1012.368,"body":"and go, you know, you're"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1012.368,"endTime":1013.4480000000001,"body":"just as welcome here."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1013.4480000000001,"endTime":1013.538,"body":"And."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1014.3130000000001,"endTime":1016.3230000000001,"body":"Joining the conversation"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1014.3130000000001,"endTime":1016.3230000000001,"body":"is absolutely fine."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1016.773,"endTime":1019.2030000000001,"body":"It's just, it is what it"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1016.773,"endTime":1019.2030000000001,"body":"is because we're talking"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1019.2030000000001,"endTime":1020.883,"body":"about, well, I can't"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1019.2030000000001,"endTime":1020.883,"body":"remember what it was."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1020.883,"endTime":1024.033,"body":"This was nearly 20 years"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1020.883,"endTime":1024.033,"body":"ago and those same things"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1024.033,"endTime":1027.363,"body":"still happen now, as I"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1024.033,"endTime":1027.363,"body":"think about it, that must"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1027.363,"endTime":1028.293,"body":"have happened on Wednesday."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1028.293,"endTime":1030.093,"body":"When I went down there"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1028.293,"endTime":1030.093,"body":"and we did split up into"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1030.093,"endTime":1033.363,"body":"groups and me and two of the"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1030.093,"endTime":1033.363,"body":"other guys, we're going out"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1033.363,"endTime":1037.293,"body":"for a Curry next Tuesday,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1033.363,"endTime":1037.293,"body":"because we are mates and."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1038.033,"endTime":1040.103,"body":"We're going to a conference"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1038.033,"endTime":1040.103,"body":"on Sunday, cuz it's the"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1040.103,"endTime":1042.923,"body":"national operatic and"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1040.103,"endTime":1042.923,"body":"dramatic association west"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1042.923,"endTime":1046.823,"body":"Midlands regional conference"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1042.923,"endTime":1046.823,"body":"in Droitwich,  be fun."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1048.143,"endTime":1051.563,"body":"Got looking forward to it,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1048.143,"endTime":1051.563,"body":"a bit of a giggle and, and"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1051.563,"endTime":1054.5629999999999,"body":"there's only a few of us"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1051.563,"endTime":1054.5629999999999,"body":"going, is that another clique?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1055.1029999999998,"endTime":1055.5529999999999,"body":"No."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1055.5529999999999,"endTime":1056.993,"body":"It's to circumstances."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1056.993,"endTime":1058.373,"body":"It's the meaning behind it?"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1058.523,"endTime":1058.763,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1058.763,"endTime":1060.623,"body":"And of course, one, one thing."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1060.628,"endTime":1063.673,"body":"If, if people are new to a"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1060.628,"endTime":1063.673,"body":"particular situation or an"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1063.673,"endTime":1066.223,"body":"organization and other people"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1063.673,"endTime":1066.223,"body":"have been there for years,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1066.793,"endTime":1071.173,"body":"then it will be natural to"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1066.793,"endTime":1071.173,"body":"feel excluded because they"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1071.173,"endTime":1072.233,"body":"don't have the history."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1072.8629999999998,"endTime":1074.653,"body":"They don't have the In jokes."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1074.653,"endTime":1078.6129999999998,"body":"They don't have the oh,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1074.653,"endTime":1078.6129999999998,"body":"you remember when of that."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1078.763,"endTime":1082.213,"body":"So I think, I think it's,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1078.763,"endTime":1082.213,"body":"it's really important to"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1082.213,"endTime":1086.288,"body":"recognize, the reason why"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1082.213,"endTime":1086.288,"body":"people could group together."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1086.588,"endTime":1089.288,"body":"And it is not necessarily,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1086.588,"endTime":1089.288,"body":"although it could be"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1089.6779999999999,"endTime":1091.838,"body":"about exclusion, but"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1089.6779999999999,"endTime":1091.838,"body":"it's not necessarily,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1091.9669999999999,"endTime":1093.437,"body":"What we wanna"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1091.9669999999999,"endTime":1093.437,"body":"make sure is that"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1093.797,"endTime":1096.347,"body":"people don't exclude"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1093.797,"endTime":1096.347,"body":"themselves because they're"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1096.347,"endTime":1097.907,"body":"expecting to be excluded."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1097.907,"endTime":1099.557,"body":"And maybe that"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1097.907,"endTime":1099.557,"body":"maybe self-esteem"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1099.557,"endTime":1100.397,"body":"has a part to play."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1100.7269999999999,"endTime":1103.097,"body":"Maybe, like Felicity"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1100.7269999999999,"endTime":1103.097,"body":"was talking, but she"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1103.097,"endTime":1103.9669999999999,"body":"used the word triggered."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1103.9669999999999,"endTime":1104.5069999999998,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1104.9869999999999,"endTime":1106.2469999999998,"body":"Why is"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1104.9869999999999,"endTime":1106.2469999999998,"body":"this so triggering?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1106.2469999999998,"endTime":1108.437,"body":"This triggers me triggers."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1108.567,"endTime":1111.317,"body":"What, what does that trigger?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1112.2169999999999,"endTime":1113.567,"body":"That's a question to ask."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1113.567,"endTime":1115.067,"body":"What does this remind me of?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1115.277,"endTime":1117.857,"body":"I been here before somewhere"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1115.277,"endTime":1117.857,"body":"else in a different system."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1118.607,"endTime":1119.837,"body":"Does this remind me of home"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1120.9769999999999,"endTime":1121.577,"body":"Oh, school."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1122.927,"endTime":1123.347,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1123.9769999999999,"endTime":1124.337,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1124.7269999999999,"endTime":1127.697,"body":"Cause she referred to"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1124.7269999999999,"endTime":1127.697,"body":"cliques at the top."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1128.492,"endTime":1131.492,"body":"so I wonder if there was"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1128.492,"endTime":1131.492,"body":"something, obviously I'm just"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1131.492,"endTime":1134.762,"body":"guessing, but I wonder if"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1131.492,"endTime":1134.762,"body":"there was something at school"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1134.762,"endTime":1138.916,"body":"when there were the older"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1134.762,"endTime":1138.916,"body":"girls and boys, maybe, but"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1138.921,"endTime":1143.806,"body":"something about where they"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1138.921,"endTime":1143.806,"body":"were together and she wasn't"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1143.806,"endTime":1146.7459999999999,"body":"allowed to join in, could be"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1143.806,"endTime":1146.7459999999999,"body":"older brothers and sisters."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1148.8909999999998,"endTime":1153.091,"body":"She was excluded and, you"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1148.8909999999998,"endTime":1153.091,"body":"know, I think that's, that's"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1153.091,"endTime":1155.8509999999999,"body":"actually also an important"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1153.091,"endTime":1155.8509999999999,"body":"point to recognize of,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1156.541,"endTime":1160.081,"body":"you know, I I'm the little"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1156.541,"endTime":1160.081,"body":"sister and my brother was"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1160.081,"endTime":1163.951,"body":"pretty good, really about,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1160.081,"endTime":1163.951,"body":"I mean, I, I couldn't"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1163.951,"endTime":1166.8909999999998,"body":"expect any better from,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1163.951,"endTime":1166.8909999999998,"body":"in terms of being allowed"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1166.8909999999998,"endTime":1168.961,"body":"to join in, but I wasn't"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1166.8909999999998,"endTime":1168.961,"body":"always allowed to join in."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1169.321,"endTime":1171.031,"body":"Could he say, why would"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1169.321,"endTime":1171.031,"body":"he want me to join in."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1171.8709999999999,"endTime":1174.271,"body":"I mean, seriously, why"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1171.8709999999999,"endTime":1174.271,"body":"would he want his little"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1174.271,"endTime":1176.701,"body":"sister to join in with"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1174.271,"endTime":1176.701,"body":"everything he did?"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1177.001,"endTime":1180.3509999999999,"body":"And I, I think that that"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1177.001,"endTime":1180.3509999999999,"body":"was,  reasonably well handled,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1180.3509999999999,"endTime":1183.471,"body":"but I do remember times of"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1180.3509999999999,"endTime":1183.471,"body":"feeling I want to join in."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1185.301,"endTime":1186.561,"body":"but that's natural."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1186.8609999999999,"endTime":1191.451,"body":"That's part of how life is,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1186.8609999999999,"endTime":1191.451,"body":"and it can't be any other way."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1191.451,"endTime":1194.6309999999999,"body":"And if you've got a, a, a"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1191.451,"endTime":1194.6309999999999,"body":"business hierarchy where"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1194.6309999999999,"endTime":1197.061,"body":"you've got the bosses"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1194.6309999999999,"endTime":1197.061,"body":"who are responsible for"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1197.451,"endTime":1198.4109999999998,"body":"everything that goes."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1199.6109999999999,"endTime":1201.261,"body":"Then it does make"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1199.6109999999999,"endTime":1201.261,"body":"sense for some sort of"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1201.6509999999998,"endTime":1203.751,"body":"separation to a degree."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1203.991,"endTime":1207.081,"body":"So I think, I think the"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1203.991,"endTime":1207.081,"body":"triggering thing is, is really"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1207.291,"endTime":1210.921,"body":"quite, quite, um, significant."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1210.951,"endTime":1214.711,"body":"She also says, says though,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1210.951,"endTime":1214.711,"body":"she feels compelling,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1214.711,"endTime":1218.22,"body":"need to win everyone"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1214.711,"endTime":1218.22,"body":"over, which is again,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1218.22,"endTime":1221.5629999999999,"body":"her own personal process."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1222.433,"endTime":1224.878,"body":"And, I wouldn't say it's"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1222.433,"endTime":1224.878,"body":"necessarily a bad thing."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1224.908,"endTime":1227.068,"body":"I mean, I'd, I'd rather"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1224.908,"endTime":1227.068,"body":"somebody wants to win"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1227.068,"endTime":1229.558,"body":"people over than says"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1227.068,"endTime":1229.558,"body":"don't care too hoots about"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1229.558,"endTime":1230.6979999999999,"body":"what anybody else thinks."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1231.598,"endTime":1232.783,"body":"But a"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1231.598,"endTime":1232.783,"body":"compelling need?"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1232.783,"endTime":1233.225,"body":"Mm."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1233.225,"endTime":1233.668,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1233.668,"endTime":1235.318,"body":"It's, it's a bit strong."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1235.3229999999999,"endTime":1235.648,"body":"Isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1236.548,"endTime":1237.778,"body":"Look at that urge."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1238.888,"endTime":1240.2379999999998,"body":"Look at why that's there."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1240.418,"endTime":1245.4579999999999,"body":"Yeah, because I think we"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1240.418,"endTime":1245.4579999999999,"body":"all have a preference to be"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1245.463,"endTime":1248.548,"body":"liked if there's a choice"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1245.463,"endTime":1248.548,"body":"and there's so many people"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1248.548,"endTime":1250.798,"body":"will say, and I've heard"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1248.548,"endTime":1250.798,"body":"them even they'll come to"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1250.798,"endTime":1252.9879999999998,"body":"therapy and they'll say"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1250.798,"endTime":1252.9879999999998,"body":"it and they'll say, oh,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1252.9879999999998,"endTime":1254.998,"body":"I don't, I don't need, I"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1252.9879999999998,"endTime":1254.998,"body":"don't need people to like,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1255.1029999999998,"endTime":1256.663,"body":"Yeah, I don't care"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1255.1029999999998,"endTime":1256.663,"body":"what anybody else thinks."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1256.858,"endTime":1257.128,"body":"me."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1257.4879999999998,"endTime":1257.638,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1258.298,"endTime":1259.618,"body":"I don't care what"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1258.298,"endTime":1259.618,"body":"people say about me."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1259.618,"endTime":1262.6779999999999,"body":"I don't care what people"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1259.618,"endTime":1262.6779999999999,"body":"think really are you sure?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1263.878,"endTime":1267.358,"body":"And I, I think that's,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1263.878,"endTime":1267.358,"body":"that's a defense mechanism."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1268.168,"endTime":1270.868,"body":"If the, if you can convince"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1268.168,"endTime":1270.868,"body":"yourself that you don't"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1271.048,"endTime":1275.008,"body":"care what people say, then"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1271.048,"endTime":1275.008,"body":"it doesn't matter what they"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1275.008,"endTime":1278.403,"body":"say and defense mechanisms,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1275.008,"endTime":1278.403,"body":"like we said, the other week,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1278.493,"endTime":1279.3629999999998,"body":"they, they can be helpful."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1279.3629999999998,"endTime":1280.413,"body":"They're there to protect us."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1281.643,"endTime":1283.773,"body":"Nothing's a problem,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1281.643,"endTime":1283.773,"body":"unless it causes problems."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1283.8029999999999,"endTime":1284.793,"body":"There's that phrase again?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1284.793,"endTime":1285.543,"body":"Oh my God."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1286.721,"endTime":1288.8809999999999,"body":"Two points from"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1286.721,"endTime":1288.8809999999999,"body":"Steph's I think we need to,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1289.061,"endTime":1292.533,"body":"to cover specifically are"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1289.061,"endTime":1292.533,"body":"gossiping in the workplace"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1292.538,"endTime":1293.8229999999999,"body":"and lack of leadership."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1294.153,"endTime":1296.5939999999998,"body":"And let's start"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1294.153,"endTime":1296.5939999999998,"body":"with the latter."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1297.407,"endTime":1300.926,"body":"If somebody's in a workplace"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1297.407,"endTime":1300.926,"body":"and feeling there's"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1300.926,"endTime":1301.916,"body":"a lack of leadership."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1302.954,"endTime":1307.261,"body":"I'm tempted to say be"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1302.954,"endTime":1307.261,"body":"the leader  but not"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1307.261,"endTime":1310.201,"body":"everybody can do that."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1310.231,"endTime":1311.701,"body":"Would want to do that."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1311.941,"endTime":1317.971,"body":"And then it's also, what"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1311.941,"endTime":1317.971,"body":"does lack of leadership mean?"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1319.591,"endTime":1323.29,"body":"It could mean, well, what do"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1319.591,"endTime":1323.29,"body":"you, what, what do you think?"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1323.32,"endTime":1326.12,"body":"What could it, what could"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1323.32,"endTime":1326.12,"body":"lack of leadership mean?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1327.0359999999998,"endTime":1329.166,"body":"It varies, doesn't"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1327.0359999999998,"endTime":1329.166,"body":"it from situation to"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1329.166,"endTime":1333.3439999999998,"body":"situation, but it could be"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1329.166,"endTime":1333.3439999999998,"body":"somebody allowing people"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1333.349,"endTime":1336.914,"body":"to run amok, they're doing"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1333.349,"endTime":1336.914,"body":"what they want, or there's"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1336.914,"endTime":1338.114,"body":"a lack of responsibility."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1339.086,"endTime":1342.0159999999998,"body":"That's what jumps out"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1339.086,"endTime":1342.0159999999998,"body":"me, particularly that"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1342.0259999999998,"endTime":1343.046,"body":"lack of responsibility."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1343.046,"endTime":1344.186,"body":"Where do I go with this?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1344.906,"endTime":1346.196,"body":"Who owns this problem?"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1347.081,"endTime":1349.541,"body":"I suppose for, for"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1347.081,"endTime":1349.541,"body":"me, if, if we're tying it"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1349.541,"endTime":1355.1209999999999,"body":"into, which I think Steph is"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1349.541,"endTime":1355.1209999999999,"body":"to the gossiping, something"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1355.1209999999999,"endTime":1358.3909999999998,"body":"about not having control."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1358.6009999999999,"endTime":1363.6109999999999,"body":"And so people can run a"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1358.6009999999999,"endTime":1363.6109999999999,"body":"mock and not do the work,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1365.171,"endTime":1369.701,"body":"which that's not likely"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1365.171,"endTime":1369.701,"body":"to be very successful in"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1369.701,"endTime":1371.951,"body":"any particular business."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1371.951,"endTime":1375.143,"body":"Is it  if you're in a"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1371.951,"endTime":1375.143,"body":"workplace where there's"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1375.293,"endTime":1378.473,"body":"little leadership and"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1375.293,"endTime":1378.473,"body":"you can't take leadership"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1378.503,"endTime":1381.143,"body":"because of course that does"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1378.503,"endTime":1381.143,"body":"give you opportunities."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1381.143,"endTime":1385.013,"body":"If you can, that will,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1381.143,"endTime":1385.013,"body":"would be a good thing."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1385.018,"endTime":1385.3429999999998,"body":"Wouldn't it?"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1385.373,"endTime":1387.5929999999998,"body":"If you wanted to be a leader"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1385.373,"endTime":1387.5929999999998,"body":"and there was no leader,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1388.763,"endTime":1391.253,"body":"you've, you've got your,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1388.763,"endTime":1391.253,"body":"your in there, haven't"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1391.283,"endTime":1392.513,"body":"got a chance"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1391.283,"endTime":1392.513,"body":"of a promotion there"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1394.2079999999999,"endTime":1398.7379999999998,"body":"But if you haven't, I"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1394.2079999999999,"endTime":1398.7379999999998,"body":"suppose it's just either move"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1399.128,"endTime":1403.148,"body":"or just do what you need to"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1399.128,"endTime":1403.148,"body":"do and ignore everybody else."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1403.328,"endTime":1406.952,"body":"I remember somebody I worked"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1403.328,"endTime":1406.952,"body":"with one time who, part of her"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1406.9569999999999,"endTime":1412.172,"body":"issue was that she would spend"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1406.9569999999999,"endTime":1412.172,"body":"time gossiping at work and"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1412.172,"endTime":1413.552,"body":"then didn't get her work done."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1413.972,"endTime":1418.307,"body":"And so in the evenings, When"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1413.972,"endTime":1418.307,"body":"she was supposedly trying to"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1418.307,"endTime":1420.4669999999999,"body":"sleep, she couldn't because"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1418.307,"endTime":1420.4669999999999,"body":"she was worrying about the"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1420.4669999999999,"endTime":1421.637,"body":"fact she hadn't done her work."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1422.297,"endTime":1427.417,"body":"And that led to a discussion"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1422.297,"endTime":1427.417,"body":"about compartmentalization,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1427.607,"endTime":1431.327,"body":"I E, doing what you're"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1427.607,"endTime":1431.327,"body":"supposed to do at the time"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1431.327,"endTime":1432.677,"body":"you're supposed to do it."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1433.067,"endTime":1439.427,"body":"So if you're at work, work,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1433.067,"endTime":1439.427,"body":"if it's rest time, rest."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1439.8319999999999,"endTime":1442.8319999999999,"body":"This gets into an old"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1439.8319999999999,"endTime":1442.8319999999999,"body":"fashioned Mars bar, advert"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1443.252,"endTime":1444.452,"body":"work, rest, and play."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1445.1499999999999,"endTime":1448.115,"body":"If you go on holiday,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1445.1499999999999,"endTime":1448.115,"body":"Be on holiday."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1448.5649999999998,"endTime":1448.895,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1448.895,"endTime":1449.495,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1449.945,"endTime":1453.3049999999998,"body":"You know, you might need to"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1449.945,"endTime":1453.3049999999998,"body":"check your emails, but do it,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1453.7549999999999,"endTime":1457.945,"body":"you know, half past four and"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1453.7549999999999,"endTime":1457.945,"body":"that's it .So compartmentalize"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1457.945,"endTime":1458.7549999999999,"body":"fit everything in."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1459.145,"endTime":1461.695,"body":"And for that client"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1459.145,"endTime":1461.695,"body":"that worked really well."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1461.695,"endTime":1464.155,"body":"She, she, she, and was"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1461.695,"endTime":1464.155,"body":"able to do the work"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1464.155,"endTime":1465.085,"body":"while she was at work."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1465.475,"endTime":1469.075,"body":"Cuz you know, doesn't"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1465.475,"endTime":1469.075,"body":"necessarily mean you"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1469.075,"endTime":1473.095,"body":"can't gossip at all, you"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1469.075,"endTime":1473.095,"body":"know, spend 10 minutes."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1474.0249999999999,"endTime":1477.595,"body":"With your mates, we'll do"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1474.0249999999999,"endTime":1477.595,"body":"it at lunchtime and, and,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1477.745,"endTime":1480.205,"body":"you know, you can still have"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1477.745,"endTime":1480.205,"body":"the relationships and so on."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1480.895,"endTime":1484.5549999999998,"body":", but, and then, then I"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1480.895,"endTime":1484.5549999999998,"body":"think not worry about what"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1484.56,"endTime":1485.395,"body":"other people are doing."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1485.3999999999999,"endTime":1485.425,"body":"Oh,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1485.906,"endTime":1487.106,"body":"I think"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1485.906,"endTime":1487.106,"body":"problems occur when that"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1487.106,"endTime":1490.2559999999999,"body":"gossiping is triggering"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1491.321,"endTime":1491.801,"body":"course."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1492.0919999999999,"endTime":1494.768,"body":"When it's"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1492.0919999999999,"endTime":1494.768,"body":"not just chatting"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1495.138,"endTime":1496.128,"body":"over the water cooler."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1496.818,"endTime":1499.2179999999998,"body":"It's not just having a"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1496.818,"endTime":1499.2179999999998,"body":"little, having a little,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1499.2179999999998,"endTime":1502.158,"body":"chinwag putting the world to"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1499.2179999999998,"endTime":1502.158,"body":"right, spending 10 minutes"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1502.158,"endTime":1503.2079999999999,"body":"doing it instead of two."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1503.2079999999999,"endTime":1504.9479999999999,"body":"And you really should"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1503.2079999999999,"endTime":1504.9479999999999,"body":"be getting back to work."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1505.008,"endTime":1511.019,"body":"It's the negative"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1505.008,"endTime":1511.019,"body":"gossiping of She was late."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1511.7089999999998,"endTime":1512.1889999999999,"body":"What's she doing?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1512.1889999999999,"endTime":1513.149,"body":"You see what she's wearing?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1513.239,"endTime":1514.319,"body":"Oh, what's going on there?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1514.619,"endTime":1517.049,"body":"You know, all that sort"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1514.619,"endTime":1517.049,"body":"of stuff that does go on"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1517.139,"endTime":1521.129,"body":"because of the need for it"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1517.139,"endTime":1521.129,"body":"within a system sometimes."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1521.984,"endTime":1523.154,"body":"We have to raise the question."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1523.154,"endTime":1525.134,"body":"Why does the system need that?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1525.194,"endTime":1526.7839999999999,"body":"Why does it need a scapegoat?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1527.527,"endTime":1529.4779999999998,"body":"Because it, it shouldn't,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1527.527,"endTime":1529.4779999999998,"body":"and it wouldn't, if"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1529.4779999999998,"endTime":1530.498,"body":"there was no problem."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1531.668,"endTime":1535.118,"body":"And the problem is the system"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1531.668,"endTime":1535.118,"body":"in, in this make believe"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1535.1779999999999,"endTime":1538.328,"body":"fantasy situation that I've"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1535.1779999999999,"endTime":1538.328,"body":"just created the problem"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1538.3329999999999,"endTime":1543.033,"body":"isn't with the one employee"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1538.3329999999999,"endTime":1543.033,"body":"that says, I feel crap."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1543.693,"endTime":1547.1879999999999,"body":"This makes me feel"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1543.693,"endTime":1547.1879999999999,"body":"triggered, upset, anxious."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1547.398,"endTime":1551.1779999999999,"body":"I don't wanna go to work,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1547.398,"endTime":1551.1779999999999,"body":"whatever it is, and it all"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1551.1779999999999,"endTime":1553.668,"body":"needs looking at, but when"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1551.1779999999999,"endTime":1553.668,"body":"you can step outside of it"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1553.668,"endTime":1555.648,"body":"and go, this isn't about me."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1556.1879999999999,"endTime":1558.558,"body":"Maybe sometimes you do need to"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1556.1879999999999,"endTime":1558.558,"body":"ask why does this bother me?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1559.338,"endTime":1560.358,"body":"Why is this bothering me?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1560.6879999999999,"endTime":1561.888,"body":"Why can't let 'em gossip?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1562.278,"endTime":1563.598,"body":"Oh, I don't get paid any less."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1564.528,"endTime":1566.748,"body":"and I suppose it, it"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1564.528,"endTime":1566.748,"body":"does really depend on how"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1566.748,"endTime":1569.2079999999999,"body":"you interpret the word gossip"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1566.748,"endTime":1569.2079999999999,"body":"and we don't really know"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1569.2079999999999,"endTime":1573.078,"body":"what Steph meant by that,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1569.2079999999999,"endTime":1573.078,"body":"but you know, this, this"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1573.078,"endTime":1575.7279999999998,"body":"morning, , When I knew we were"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1573.078,"endTime":1575.7279999999998,"body":"going be talking about these"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1575.7279999999998,"endTime":1580.408,"body":"things, I had taken my father"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1575.7279999999998,"endTime":1580.408,"body":"to a dental appointment."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1580.732,"endTime":1585.3819999999998,"body":"I take my father in, they"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1580.732,"endTime":1585.3819999999998,"body":"know know me by name."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1585.889,"endTime":1587.899,"body":"I know it's just"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1585.889,"endTime":1587.899,"body":"ordinary dentistry,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1587.899,"endTime":1590.059,"body":"nothing, nothing major."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1590.089,"endTime":1591.079,"body":"I'm not there that often."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1591.3719999999998,"endTime":1595.772,"body":"they asked how my"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1591.3719999999998,"endTime":1595.772,"body":"Ukrainian family were they"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1595.8319999999999,"endTime":1599.229,"body":"asked me about my son's"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1595.8319999999999,"endTime":1599.229,"body":"wedding, and they were"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1599.4689999999998,"endTime":1601.059,"body":"thrilled to see photos."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1601.464,"endTime":1604.3139999999999,"body":"I thought, oh God, I'm just"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1601.464,"endTime":1604.3139999999999,"body":"boring them aren't I, but no,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1604.5539999999999,"endTime":1606.864,"body":"and to the extent that I then"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1604.5539999999999,"endTime":1606.864,"body":"went out to the car park,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1606.864,"endTime":1609.264,"body":"cause I have to go in and tell"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1606.864,"endTime":1609.264,"body":"them when I'm back so that he"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1609.264,"endTime":1610.5539999999999,"body":"doesn't wander the car park."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1611.4389999999999,"endTime":1611.649,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1612.3239999999998,"endTime":1614.004,"body":"he'd probably be"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1612.3239999999998,"endTime":1614.004,"body":"fine, but I'm not risking it."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1614.424,"endTime":1617.004,"body":"So I go, I go and sit in"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1614.424,"endTime":1617.004,"body":"the car, wait for him."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1617.484,"endTime":1618.504,"body":"He comes back, says."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1618.674,"endTime":1622.0639999999999,"body":"Oh, Megan, Megan, didn't"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1618.674,"endTime":1622.0639999999999,"body":"get to see the photos."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1622.0639999999999,"endTime":1623.864,"body":"Can you come back in now?"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1624.164,"endTime":1628.214,"body":"This to me, that's that's in"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1624.164,"endTime":1628.214,"body":"the sense is gossip because"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1629.0539999999999,"endTime":1634.514,"body":"them looking at my son's"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1629.0539999999999,"endTime":1634.514,"body":"wedding photos is not part"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1634.514,"endTime":1638.32,"body":"of their jobs, but they are."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1639.35,"endTime":1642.73,"body":"So I suppose it's sort"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1639.35,"endTime":1642.73,"body":"of client centered."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1643.06,"endTime":1646.645,"body":"They're so about making"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1643.06,"endTime":1646.645,"body":"the clients comfortable,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1646.7949999999998,"endTime":1650.245,"body":"but it also clearly"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1646.7949999999998,"endTime":1650.245,"body":"makes them feel happy."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1650.8149999999998,"endTime":1653.935,"body":"So you can see it, you walk in"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1650.8149999999998,"endTime":1653.935,"body":"their, their face is light up."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1653.995,"endTime":1654.955,"body":"It's genuine."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1655.7949999999998,"endTime":1658.0449999999998,"body":"So it's a lovely place to go."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1658.135,"endTime":1661.675,"body":"And whoever it is, who's"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1658.135,"endTime":1661.675,"body":"creating that environment"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1662.485,"endTime":1663.835,"body":"is doing a really good job,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1666.61,"endTime":1669.73,"body":"they're like you say,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1666.61,"endTime":1669.73,"body":"they're being person-centered."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1669.745,"endTime":1671.0649999999998,"body":"leads back"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1669.745,"endTime":1671.0649999999998,"body":"to the leadership."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1671.3999999999999,"endTime":1673.32,"body":"Yeah, cause"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1671.3999999999999,"endTime":1673.32,"body":"it's working there."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1673.83,"endTime":1677.85,"body":"And we do see problems when"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1673.83,"endTime":1677.85,"body":"there's an issue at the top"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1678.6,"endTime":1683.61,"body":"and attitudes get passed down"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1678.6,"endTime":1683.61,"body":"layer by layer level by level."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1684.27,"endTime":1688.3799999999999,"body":"It does get picked up"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1684.27,"endTime":1688.3799999999999,"body":"further down because certain"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1688.3799999999999,"endTime":1692.85,"body":"behaviors, certain attitudes"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1688.3799999999999,"endTime":1692.85,"body":"get accepted as well,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1692.85,"endTime":1693.57,"body":"this is okay."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1694.71,"endTime":1697.6,"body":"And that starts at"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1694.71,"endTime":1697.6,"body":"the top of government."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1699.2849999999999,"endTime":1702.2549999999999,"body":"I'm not gonna name names,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1699.2849999999999,"endTime":1702.2549999999999,"body":"supermarket brands."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1702.645,"endTime":1704.745,"body":"I'm going through all the"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1702.645,"endTime":1704.745,"body":"gossip that I've picked up"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1704.745,"endTime":1707.355,"body":"over the years from clients"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1704.745,"endTime":1707.355,"body":"and friends who work in"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1707.36,"endTime":1708.345,"body":"different professions."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1708.705,"endTime":1712.095,"body":"And yeah, they will often say"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1708.705,"endTime":1712.095,"body":"there's a problem at the top"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1712.155,"endTime":1713.445,"body":"and it just gets passed down."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1714.1499999999999,"endTime":1716.55,"body":"the sort of the"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1714.1499999999999,"endTime":1716.55,"body":"problem at top, but the"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1716.5549999999998,"endTime":1718.02,"body":"company ethos as well."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1718.05,"endTime":1721.1799999999998,"body":"There's  somebody I'd be"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1718.05,"endTime":1721.1799999999998,"body":"working with, who has worked"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1721.1799999999998,"endTime":1724.72,"body":"for a major corporation."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1725.26,"endTime":1726.37,"body":"I won't go any"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1725.26,"endTime":1726.37,"body":"further than that."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1726.37,"endTime":1731.6499999999999,"body":"Where the, the, the ethos"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1726.37,"endTime":1731.6499999999999,"body":"is you get in first thing"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1731.655,"endTime":1735.28,"body":"in the morning, you do"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1731.655,"endTime":1735.28,"body":"not leave until way after"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1735.85,"endTime":1741.385,"body":"six o'clock, you know, All"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1735.85,"endTime":1741.385,"body":"hours you holidays were,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1741.8049999999998,"endTime":1744.145,"body":"I suppose you can take a"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1741.8049999999998,"endTime":1744.145,"body":"little bit, but you might be"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1744.5049999999999,"endTime":1747.0249999999999,"body":"allow this amount, but no,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1744.5049999999999,"endTime":1747.0249999999999,"body":"you're not taking it sick."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1747.085,"endTime":1747.415,"body":"What?"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1747.475,"endTime":1747.865,"body":"No."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1748.475,"endTime":1753.875,"body":"And the pressure immense,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1748.475,"endTime":1753.875,"body":"whereas somebody else I"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1753.875,"endTime":1759.605,"body":"know works for an equivalent"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1753.875,"endTime":1759.605,"body":"corporation where it's"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1760.258,"endTime":1761.518,"body":"yeah, you need that time."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1761.998,"endTime":1762.358,"body":"Fine."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1763.963,"endTime":1766.663,"body":"Yeah, you, you are,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1763.963,"endTime":1766.663,"body":"you are a human being."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1766.903,"endTime":1770.173,"body":"You need your, you need"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1766.903,"endTime":1770.173,"body":"your holidays at six"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1770.173,"endTime":1771.1029999999998,"body":"o'clock off you go."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1772.033,"endTime":1775.783,"body":"And well, if I was able to"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1772.033,"endTime":1775.783,"body":"say which these two were,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1775.783,"endTime":1779.307,"body":"which obviously I can't,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1775.783,"endTime":1779.307,"body":"they're equally successful."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1779.907,"endTime":1783.807,"body":"I mean, both, both majorly"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1779.907,"endTime":1783.807,"body":"successful corporations,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1784.7069999999999,"endTime":1787.7069999999999,"body":"but if you've got two"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1784.7069999999999,"endTime":1787.7069999999999,"body":"that are equal one with."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1789.072,"endTime":1790.062,"body":"Negative ethos."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1790.3319999999999,"endTime":1791.802,"body":"One with the positive ethos."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1793.493,"endTime":1794.033,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1794.2559999999999,"endTime":1797.556,"body":"And I, I I've desperately"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1794.2559999999999,"endTime":1797.556,"body":"tried to find evidence"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1797.556,"endTime":1802.0919999999999,"body":"of this study that, um,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1797.556,"endTime":1802.0919999999999,"body":"remember Martin Armstrong"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1802.0919999999999,"endTime":1803.322,"body":"prior, great guy."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1803.322,"endTime":1804.012,"body":"He lives in Scotland"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1804.027,"endTime":1804.087,"body":"huh?"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1804.087,"endTime":1804.927,"body":"Yes, I that's indeed."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1805.527,"endTime":1806.2169999999999,"body":"Hello Martin."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1806.297,"endTime":1807.7069999999999,"body":"Hello Martin,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1806.297,"endTime":1807.7069999999999,"body":"maybe he listens."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1807.7669999999998,"endTime":1808.637,"body":"Oh, I'd be nice if"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1808.667,"endTime":1808.787,"body":"be"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1808.972,"endTime":1810.0169999999998,"body":"All right,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1808.972,"endTime":1810.0169999999998,"body":"mate, long time."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1810.0169999999998,"endTime":1810.167,"body":"Don't"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1810.3519999999999,"endTime":1811.4569999999999,"body":"seen you pages, Martin."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1811.6119999999999,"endTime":1813.3519999999999,"body":"Scotland's"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1811.6119999999999,"endTime":1813.3519999999999,"body":"looking great nowadays."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1813.442,"endTime":1814.672,"body":"Might be joining you."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1816.652,"endTime":1820.599,"body":"He was talking about what"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1816.652,"endTime":1820.599,"body":"he thought was, um, a study"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1820.599,"endTime":1823.706,"body":"that was done in a, steel"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1820.599,"endTime":1823.706,"body":"Foundry in Cincinnati,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1823.706,"endTime":1826.616,"body":"but I, I can't find the"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1823.706,"endTime":1826.616,"body":"original study that was done."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1826.616,"endTime":1828.7759999999998,"body":"And, maybe it's just one of"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1826.616,"endTime":1828.7759999999998,"body":"these urban legends who knows"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1829.106,"endTime":1833.9959999999999,"body":"that said that they were"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1829.106,"endTime":1833.9959999999999,"body":"looking at productivity and."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1834.716,"endTime":1837.176,"body":"One of the ways of"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1834.716,"endTime":1837.176,"body":"measuring productivity."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1837.176,"endTime":1838.856,"body":"Cause it's quite hard"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1837.176,"endTime":1838.856,"body":"to measure productivity."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1839.2759999999998,"endTime":1840.7459999999999,"body":"How do you tell what"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1839.2759999999998,"endTime":1840.7459999999999,"body":"you're producing?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1840.7459999999999,"endTime":1845.831,"body":"Well, some people their job"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1840.7459999999999,"endTime":1845.831,"body":"was simply shoveling coal into"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1845.836,"endTime":1850.6309999999999,"body":"a, a furnace and they could"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1845.836,"endTime":1850.6309999999999,"body":"see how much coal somebody"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1850.636,"endTime":1852.251,"body":"would be shoveling in a day."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1853.001,"endTime":1855.011,"body":"And let's say it was,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1853.001,"endTime":1855.011,"body":"I think the number that"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1855.011,"endTime":1859.511,"body":"Martin came up with was,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1855.011,"endTime":1859.511,"body":"um, was eight tons in a day."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1859.781,"endTime":1862.1209999999999,"body":"So that's, that's a"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1859.781,"endTime":1862.1209999999999,"body":"lot and they did some"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1862.1209999999999,"endTime":1863.711,"body":"experiments where."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1864.1209999999999,"endTime":1868.501,"body":"Every hour, somebody had a"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1864.1209999999999,"endTime":1868.501,"body":"break just for a minute or"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1868.501,"endTime":1870.9009999999998,"body":"two, just lent on the shovels,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1868.501,"endTime":1870.9009999999998,"body":"sat a bit of a break, and"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1870.9009999999998,"endTime":1871.876,"body":"then they went back to work."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1872.886,"endTime":1876.331,"body":"And doing that rather than"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1872.886,"endTime":1876.331,"body":"just work, work, work, work,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1876.331,"endTime":1879.721,"body":"work, work, work, and then"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1876.331,"endTime":1879.721,"body":"have a lunch break and go, oh"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1879.781,"endTime":1880.771,"body":"God, gotta get back to work."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1880.771,"endTime":1882.1509999999998,"body":"And then they go"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1880.771,"endTime":1882.1509999999998,"body":"work, work, work."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1882.751,"endTime":1884.761,"body":"Supposedly it went"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1882.751,"endTime":1884.761,"body":"from shoveling eight"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1884.7659999999998,"endTime":1886.051,"body":"tons to shoveling 14."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1886.8609999999999,"endTime":1890.311,"body":"They were able to do so"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1886.8609999999999,"endTime":1890.311,"body":"much more physical work"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1890.341,"endTime":1892.711,"body":"because once an hour"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1890.341,"endTime":1892.711,"body":"they'd just stopped."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1893.251,"endTime":1895.261,"body":"Maybe they did lean on the"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1893.251,"endTime":1895.261,"body":"shovels and they'd chat to."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1895.876,"endTime":1896.806,"body":"Chat to their colleague."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1897.0159999999998,"endTime":1898.816,"body":"And we see that in street"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1897.0159999999998,"endTime":1898.816,"body":"workers all the time."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1898.816,"endTime":1900.106,"body":"And we see it in"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1898.816,"endTime":1900.106,"body":"a lot of builders."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1901.0059999999999,"endTime":1903.886,"body":"Nobody complains about the"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1901.0059999999999,"endTime":1903.886,"body":"builders that are working,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1904.4859999999999,"endTime":1906.166,"body":"that gets, gets filtered out."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1906.2559999999999,"endTime":1907.846,"body":"No, I don't even see those,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1906.2559999999999,"endTime":1907.846,"body":"but the ones that are"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1907.846,"endTime":1909.946,"body":"just standing there doing"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1907.846,"endTime":1909.946,"body":"nothing, drinking tea,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1910.216,"endTime":1911.656,"body":"look at these lazy folk."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1911.7459999999999,"endTime":1912.316,"body":"Get on with it."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1912.586,"endTime":1913.396,"body":"Will you get on with it?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1913.4859999999999,"endTime":1914.896,"body":"Oh, when are they"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1913.4859999999999,"endTime":1914.896,"body":"gonna be finished?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1914.9859999999999,"endTime":1919.156,"body":"Well, you don't let them"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1914.9859999999999,"endTime":1919.156,"body":"rest, they won't be, or maybe"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1919.966,"endTime":1922.846,"body":"the work will get done in"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1919.966,"endTime":1922.846,"body":"the same amount of time, but"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1922.846,"endTime":1924.2259999999999,"body":"with a lot less backache."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1924.6309999999999,"endTime":1927.481,"body":"And maybe those two"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1924.6309999999999,"endTime":1927.481,"body":"corporations are producing"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1927.481,"endTime":1930.6609999999998,"body":"exactly the same amount"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1927.481,"endTime":1930.6609999999998,"body":"of work, but going about"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1930.6609999999998,"endTime":1932.071,"body":"it in two different ways."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1932.8509999999999,"endTime":1934.431,"body":"And one's gonna have"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1932.8509999999999,"endTime":1934.431,"body":"more staff turnover."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1934.771,"endTime":1937.051,"body":"Geez, really is."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1937.8609999999999,"endTime":1938.4009999999998,"body":"Indeed."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1938.7469999999998,"endTime":1940.4089999999999,"body":"That was a really"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1938.7469999999998,"endTime":1940.4089999999999,"body":"interesting topic."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1940.944,"endTime":1941.5339999999999,"body":"It is isn't it."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1941.894,"endTime":1943.724,"body":"When those questions came"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1941.894,"endTime":1943.724,"body":"through and I thought."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1943.799,"endTime":1943.889,"body":"Hmm."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1945.539,"endTime":1946.649,"body":"When am I gonna put these?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1946.649,"endTime":1947.2189999999998,"body":"Cuz they were came."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1947.2189999999998,"endTime":1947.549,"body":"They came."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1947.549,"endTime":1947.819,"body":"Hello?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1947.819,"endTime":1949.829,"body":"Both of you, both of these"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1947.819,"endTime":1949.829,"body":"two listeners, they came"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1949.829,"endTime":1950.759,"body":"in at different times."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1950.759,"endTime":1955.589,"body":"I've been waiting for a"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1950.759,"endTime":1955.589,"body":"place to put them  and,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1955.5939999999998,"endTime":1957.7189999999998,"body":"and there was another one"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1955.5939999999998,"endTime":1957.7189999999998,"body":"that was kind of related."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1957.7189999999998,"endTime":1958.729,"body":"I'm like, aha."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1959.309,"endTime":1961.019,"body":"But is this really therapy?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1961.769,"endTime":1964.519,"body":"Turns out we can certainly"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1961.769,"endTime":1964.519,"body":"turn this into some sort of."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1964.732,"endTime":1967.8999999999999,"body":"psychological theory"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1964.732,"endTime":1967.8999999999999,"body":"easily talk about it."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1968.1699999999998,"endTime":1968.95,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1969.31,"endTime":1971.6799999999998,"body":"So if you have any more"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1969.31,"endTime":1971.6799999999998,"body":"questions, whether it's work"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1971.6799999999998,"endTime":1974.4099999999999,"body":"related systems related,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1971.6799999999998,"endTime":1974.4099999999999,"body":"family related mental health"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1974.4099999999999,"endTime":1977.62,"body":"related in any way, shape"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1974.4099999999999,"endTime":1977.62,"body":"or form the link to submit"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1977.62,"endTime":1979.45,"body":"a question is in the show"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1977.62,"endTime":1979.45,"body":"notes and we need them."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1979.8049999999998,"endTime":1981.0649999999998,"body":"We can't do this without you."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1981.5149999999999,"endTime":1983.495,"body":"Otherwise it's just me"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1981.5149999999999,"endTime":1983.495,"body":"and Fiona having a chat,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1984.0049999999999,"endTime":1988.5649999999998,"body":"which would work but it's"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1984.0049999999999,"endTime":1988.5649999999998,"body":"quite nice to get some"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1988.5649999999998,"endTime":1989.825,"body":"audience participation."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1989.825,"endTime":1992.465,"body":"So thanks to everybody that's"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1989.825,"endTime":1992.465,"body":"been contributing so far."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1992.675,"endTime":1994.2649999999999,"body":"We've still got some"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1992.675,"endTime":1994.2649999999999,"body":"questions to plow through,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1994.2649999999999,"endTime":1996.095,"body":"believe me, but we want more."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1996.125,"endTime":1998.165,"body":"We wanna do this for the rest"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1996.125,"endTime":1998.165,"body":"of our lives, if possible."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1998.495,"endTime":2002.1409999999998,"body":"So shell, we love him and"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1998.495,"endTime":2002.1409999999998,"body":"leave him for another week."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":2002.1409999999998,"endTime":2002.6209999999999,"body":"Fiona."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":2003.556,"endTime":2003.886,"body":"fine."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":2004.656,"endTime":2005.796,"body":"Look forward to next time."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":2006.146,"endTime":2006.896,"body":"Indeed."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":2007.329,"endTime":2008.559,"body":"We'll be back next time."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":2008.779,"endTime":2009.4689999999998,"body":"Have a good one."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":2009.955,"endTime":2010.2549999999999,"body":"See you"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":2011.369,"endTime":2011.6689999999999,"body":"Bye."}]}