{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":40.168,"endTime":43.848,"body":"Welcome to another"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":40.168,"endTime":43.848,"body":"episode of Therapy Natters"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":44.088,"endTime":48.198,"body":"the podcast series where"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":44.088,"endTime":48.198,"body":"two psychotherapists crawl"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":48.198,"endTime":51.708,"body":"their way through over a"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":48.198,"endTime":51.708,"body":"hundred years of speculation"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":51.948,"endTime":55.788,"body":"and try to work out how much"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":51.948,"endTime":55.788,"body":"of it was priceless and how"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":55.788,"endTime":57.888000000000005,"body":"much of it was valueless."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":58.338,"endTime":59.568,"body":"I'm Richard Nicholls."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":59.568,"endTime":62.118,"body":"And with me as always"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":59.568,"endTime":62.118,"body":"is Fiona Biddle."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":62.148,"endTime":62.688,"body":"Here we go again."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":62.693,"endTime":64.608,"body":"Fiona episode 20."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":65.628,"endTime":66.138,"body":"really?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":66.55799999999999,"endTime":67.568,"body":"Yeah, this"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":66.55799999999999,"endTime":67.568,"body":"is the twentieth."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":67.99799999999999,"endTime":72.19800000000001,"body":"Yeah, I we've been"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":67.99799999999999,"endTime":72.19800000000001,"body":"haven't we . 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and"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":238.501,"endTime":240.87099999999998,"body":"it really felt like he"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":240.876,"endTime":242.641,"body":"must have been reading"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":240.876,"endTime":242.641,"body":"my diary or something."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":242.971,"endTime":244.891,"body":"I felt myself nodding"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":242.971,"endTime":244.891,"body":"along as I was listening."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":245.251,"endTime":247.051,"body":"I would love to hear"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":245.251,"endTime":247.051,"body":"your combined take on."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":247.49099999999999,"endTime":250.37099999999998,"body":"And maybe what people can"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":247.49099999999999,"endTime":250.37099999999998,"body":"do to become desensitized."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":251.09099999999998,"endTime":251.691,"body":"Thanks."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":252.381,"endTime":256.011,"body":"And then there was"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":252.381,"endTime":256.011,"body":"a very recent one,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":256.016,"endTime":257.411,"body":"Judy from Lancashire."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":257.921,"endTime":260.961,"body":"Who messaged in to say I've"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":257.921,"endTime":260.961,"body":"been in therapy for around"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":260.961,"endTime":264.051,"body":"18 months now and see my"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":260.961,"endTime":264.051,"body":"therapist every two weeks,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":264.411,"endTime":265.31100000000004,"body":"we get on really well."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":265.31100000000004,"endTime":266.211,"body":"And I trust her."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":266.661,"endTime":268.791,"body":"She's always kind and"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":266.661,"endTime":268.791,"body":"supportive and above"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":268.791,"endTime":269.911,"body":"all else is reliable."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":270.051,"endTime":274.341,"body":"She has never let me down"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":270.051,"endTime":274.341,"body":"despite this at the end of"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":274.341,"endTime":277.461,"body":"every session, I feel myself"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":274.341,"endTime":277.461,"body":"going downhill a little."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":277.681,"endTime":278.821,"body":"As the session ends."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":278.821,"endTime":282.271,"body":"I feel this feeling that I'm"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":278.821,"endTime":282.271,"body":"never going to see her again."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":282.511,"endTime":285.151,"body":"We've spoken about it and"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":282.511,"endTime":285.151,"body":"explored times in my past"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":285.151,"endTime":287.70099999999996,"body":"where I've lost people and"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":285.151,"endTime":287.70099999999996,"body":"it makes absolute sense"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":287.70099999999996,"endTime":290.611,"body":"that I feel it, but it"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":287.70099999999996,"endTime":290.611,"body":"still isn't going away."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":290.671,"endTime":292.501,"body":"Do you have any suggestions?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":292.96,"endTime":293.34999999999997,"body":"Well,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":293.47499999999997,"endTime":296.22499999999997,"body":"Yeah, two"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":293.47499999999997,"endTime":296.22499999999997,"body":"interesting questions."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":296.235,"endTime":300.96999999999997,"body":"And to me, they are definitely"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":296.235,"endTime":300.96999999999997,"body":"linked because the idea"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":300.97499999999997,"endTime":304.9,"body":"of rejection and loss are"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":300.97499999999997,"endTime":304.9,"body":"just two sides of a coin."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":304.96,"endTime":307.096,"body":"If, if indeed that,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":304.96,"endTime":307.096,"body":"they're, they're very"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":307.096,"endTime":308.625,"body":"similar, feelings."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":308.79699999999997,"endTime":310.98699999999997,"body":"I just want to refer back"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":308.79699999999997,"endTime":310.98699999999997,"body":"to, I think it was episode"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":310.98699999999997,"endTime":312.847,"body":"three, where we talked about."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":313.327,"endTime":318.097,"body":"Trust and mistrust in"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":313.327,"endTime":318.097,"body":"terms of Eric Erickson's"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":318.097,"endTime":320.197,"body":"psychosocial theory."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":320.258,"endTime":323.468,"body":"And we were using that"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":320.258,"endTime":323.468,"body":"at that point to discuss"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":323.468,"endTime":325.248,"body":"about relationship trust."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":325.44,"endTime":327.677,"body":"But if you think of  that"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":325.44,"endTime":327.677,"body":"part of the theory."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":327.783,"endTime":332.264,"body":"That it's the very early"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":327.783,"endTime":332.264,"body":"days of a child's existence,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":332.378,"endTime":335.20799999999997,"body":"nought to one, according"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":332.378,"endTime":335.20799999999997,"body":"to Erickson where they."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":335.943,"endTime":339.967,"body":"Learning whether people and"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":335.943,"endTime":339.967,"body":"the world, are trustworthy."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":340.079,"endTime":345.34999999999997,"body":"it's very similar  with people"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":340.079,"endTime":345.34999999999997,"body":"who fear rejection, because,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":345.53,"endTime":347.15,"body":"you know, it's inevitable."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":347.314,"endTime":350.736,"body":"We are all going to be"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":347.314,"endTime":350.736,"body":"rejected in some way or"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":350.736,"endTime":354.188,"body":"another, probably many"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":350.736,"endTime":354.188,"body":"times in different contexts."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":354.39799999999997,"endTime":358.758,"body":"but it's how to, deal with"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":354.39799999999997,"endTime":358.758,"body":"that and how to stop it"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":359.028,"endTime":362.058,"body":"actually, you know, sort"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":359.028,"endTime":362.058,"body":"of ruining or ruling your"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":362.058,"endTime":364.07599999999996,"body":"life and the fear of loss."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":364.19599999999997,"endTime":365.936,"body":"It all, it's all linked in."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":365.936,"endTime":366.356,"body":"Isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":366.67199999999997,"endTime":371.779,"body":"Yeah, I often go 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an"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":385.279,"endTime":386.80899999999997,"body":"acceptance of, oh, I get it."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":387.169,"endTime":388.699,"body":"I get why I feel this feeling."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":389.269,"endTime":393.484,"body":"And then with acceptance of"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":389.269,"endTime":393.484,"body":"it becomes easier to control."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":393.754,"endTime":396.904,"body":"And that's how it becomes"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":393.754,"endTime":396.904,"body":"easier to get desensitized to"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":396.904,"endTime":400.74399999999997,"body":"it because you're not adding"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":396.904,"endTime":400.74399999999997,"body":"extra emotion into the mix."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":400.74899999999997,"endTime":402.404,"body":"One thing we know 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they"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":426.513,"endTime":431.812,"body":"were really the first Melanie"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":431.812,"endTime":435.11199999999997,"body":"Klein, Donald Winnicott, and"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":431.812,"endTime":435.11199999999997,"body":"then John Bowlby, soon after."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":435.652,"endTime":438.592,"body":"They were the ones that"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":435.652,"endTime":438.592,"body":"were saying, actually it's"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":438.592,"endTime":442.686,"body":"those early, very young"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":438.592,"endTime":442.686,"body":"childhood experiences that"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":442.686,"endTime":446.376,"body":"shape how we feel that we"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":442.686,"endTime":446.376,"body":"fit in in the world and"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":446.376,"endTime":450.726,"body":"how we, how we, how we see"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":446.376,"endTime":450.726,"body":"others as, as good or bad."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":450.945,"endTime":454.155,"body":"if when we are really very"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":450.945,"endTime":454.155,"body":"young and our brains are"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":454.155,"endTime":458.265,"body":"soft and pliable, this"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":454.155,"endTime":458.265,"body":"message is being given to"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":458.265,"endTime":461.29,"body":"us that we are rejectable."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":461.911,"endTime":464.791,"body":"Unworthy or that there are"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":461.911,"endTime":464.791,"body":"terms and conditions to"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":464.791,"endTime":466.141,"body":"attention or reflection."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":466.771,"endTime":468.541,"body":"That's gonna have a"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":466.771,"endTime":468.541,"body":"significant effect"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":468.541,"endTime":471.52299999999997,"body":"on a young person and"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":468.541,"endTime":471.52299999999997,"body":"shape who they become,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":471.52299999999997,"endTime":473.71299999999997,"body":"especially if it's repeated"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":471.52299999999997,"endTime":473.71299999999997,"body":"throughout their childhood."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":474.283,"endTime":478.873,"body":"And that's, that's a normal"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":474.283,"endTime":478.873,"body":"reaction when somebody's been"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":479.263,"endTime":484.96,"body":"even 25% mistreated, let alone"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":479.263,"endTime":484.96,"body":"some of the neglectful things"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":484.965,"endTime":488.2,"body":"that, you know, we hear about"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":484.965,"endTime":488.2,"body":"in the therapy room sometimes."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":488.5,"endTime":489.52,"body":"So it makes a lot of sense."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":489.52,"endTime":489.96999999999997,"body":"Doesn't it?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":490.15,"endTime":490.21,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":490.319,"endTime":492.299,"body":"It does make a lot"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":490.319,"endTime":492.299,"body":"of sense, but I think it's"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":492.429,"endTime":493.629,"body":"important there, there."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":493.65999999999997,"endTime":496.65999999999997,"body":"To recognize the other"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":493.65999999999997,"endTime":496.65999999999997,"body":"side of it, that you"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":496.65999999999997,"endTime":498.25,"body":"can't be a perfect parent."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":498.314,"endTime":504.224,"body":"So children's needs cannot"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":498.314,"endTime":504.224,"body":"always be met right now."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":504.277,"endTime":509.189,"body":"when I was little, it was"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":504.277,"endTime":509.189,"body":"the norm to have the feeding"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":509.189,"endTime":513.059,"body":"every four hours and you"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":509.189,"endTime":513.059,"body":"were left to cry and you"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":513.059,"endTime":514.0790000000001,"body":"know, you didn't get fed."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":514.301,"endTime":518.0690000000001,"body":"Sooner, in my model of the"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":514.301,"endTime":518.0690000000001,"body":"world, I was lucky in that my"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":518.0690000000001,"endTime":519.9590000000001,"body":"mother couldn't handle that."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":520.619,"endTime":523.349,"body":"So, so she didn't go"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":520.619,"endTime":523.349,"body":"along with it, but"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":523.354,"endTime":524.519,"body":"that was the norm."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":524.669,"endTime":526.649,"body":"So that was sort"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":524.669,"endTime":526.649,"body":"of programmed in."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":526.903,"endTime":529.783,"body":"And, you know, there are still"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":526.903,"endTime":529.783,"body":"people who advocate that sort"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":529.783,"endTime":532.087,"body":"of, child rearing, protocol."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":532.094,"endTime":535.873,"body":"when my boys were little,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":532.094,"endTime":535.873,"body":"Basically just found"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":535.873,"endTime":538.023,"body":"it much easier  to feed"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":535.873,"endTime":538.023,"body":"them when they wanted."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":538.065,"endTime":540.645,"body":"It was easier for me,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":538.065,"endTime":540.645,"body":"seemed better for them."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":540.7620000000001,"endTime":541.182,"body":"They've done."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":541.212,"endTime":541.6020000000001,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":541.697,"endTime":542.897,"body":", it seems to work."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":543.1940000000001,"endTime":544.3290000000001,"body":"It can't be perfect."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":544.3340000000001,"endTime":548.106,"body":"And I, I, I don't want there"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":544.3340000000001,"endTime":548.106,"body":"to be any suggestion that"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":548.1110000000001,"endTime":551.1510000000001,"body":"we're, saying that parents"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":548.1110000000001,"endTime":551.1510000000001,"body":"have to meet all their"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":551.1510000000001,"endTime":553.071,"body":"children's needs or else."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":553.446,"endTime":554.076,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":554.301,"endTime":556.3190000000001,"body":"you've just got"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":554.301,"endTime":556.3190000000001,"body":"to be good enough."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":556.402,"endTime":558.7420000000001,"body":"yeah, which of"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":556.402,"endTime":558.7420000000001,"body":"course is Donald Winnicott"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":558.892,"endTime":561.832,"body":"phrase, the good enough"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":558.892,"endTime":561.832,"body":"mother, which of course in"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":561.832,"endTime":565.1320000000001,"body":"his time it was more likely"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":561.832,"endTime":565.1320000000001,"body":"actually in his time it"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":565.1370000000001,"endTime":567.682,"body":"was more likely to be the"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":565.1370000000001,"endTime":567.682,"body":"nanny in terms of the people"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":567.687,"endTime":569.35,"body":"that he, was working with."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":569.95,"endTime":572.2600000000001,"body":"Uh, but it's the primary care."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":573.73,"endTime":577.3000000000001,"body":"um, whoever, whoever that,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":573.73,"endTime":577.3000000000001,"body":"whoever that might be, and"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":577.3900000000001,"endTime":578.7700000000001,"body":"we pluralize it now as well."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":578.7700000000001,"endTime":581.83,"body":"Cause it's not necessarily"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":578.7700000000001,"endTime":581.83,"body":"just one person,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":582.7600000000001,"endTime":584.0500000000001,"body":"but good enough."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":584.35,"endTime":587.47,"body":"Uh, you missed out Mary"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":584.35,"endTime":587.47,"body":"Ainsworth in your little list."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":588.571,"endTime":589.5010000000001,"body":"Ah, yeah, of course."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":589.5010000000001,"endTime":590.811,"body":"Following on from John Bowlby."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":591.0010000000001,"endTime":591.5110000000001,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":591.5110000000001,"endTime":593.341,"body":"Yeah, she did even"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":591.5110000000001,"endTime":593.341,"body":"more than he did."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":593.551,"endTime":595.711,"body":"I mean, he really set"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":593.551,"endTime":595.711,"body":"the, I think we owe"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":595.711,"endTime":596.9910000000001,"body":"a lot to John Bowlby."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":597.0060000000001,"endTime":597.541,"body":"Definitely."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":597.541,"endTime":600.7810000000001,"body":"But before that, Donald"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":597.541,"endTime":600.7810000000001,"body":"Winnicott, we owe a"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":600.7810000000001,"endTime":604.027,"body":"lot to, he actually, he"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":600.7810000000001,"endTime":604.027,"body":"actually did a little bit"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":604.027,"endTime":605.047,"body":"about what we are doing."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":605.782,"endTime":606.7120000000001,"body":"Thinking about it."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":606.812,"endTime":611.759,"body":"He presented a radio program"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":606.812,"endTime":611.759,"body":"for the BBC on parenting to"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":611.759,"endTime":615.522,"body":"help people with, um, I think"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":611.759,"endTime":615.522,"body":"it was the evacuees from World"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":615.522,"endTime":619.392,"body":"War II so that people who"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":615.522,"endTime":619.392,"body":"would never really had much"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":619.392,"endTime":623.8140000000001,"body":"experience at raising kids"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":619.392,"endTime":623.8140000000001,"body":"could,  could get some advice."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":623.9340000000001,"endTime":626.3770000000001,"body":"And he was invited"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":623.9340000000001,"endTime":626.3770000000001,"body":"by some BBC producer."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":626.471,"endTime":629.981,"body":"To narrate these programs"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":626.471,"endTime":629.981,"body":"and spread the word about how"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":629.981,"endTime":631.601,"body":"to be a good enough parent."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":631.601,"endTime":633.2810000000001,"body":"It's this was during"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":631.601,"endTime":633.2810000000001,"body":"the early forties."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":633.524,"endTime":634.604,"body":"I'd love to hear some of that."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":634.604,"endTime":636.014,"body":"I don't think any of"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":634.604,"endTime":636.014,"body":"it's really available,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":636.014,"endTime":637.3340000000001,"body":"but be amazing."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":637.3340000000001,"endTime":637.6940000000001,"body":"Wouldn't it?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":637.6940000000001,"endTime":638.714,"body":"Just to hear his voice."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":638.993,"endTime":642.503,"body":"Yes, I haven't"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":638.993,"endTime":642.503,"body":"looked, but I have read his"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":643.013,"endTime":644.5730000000001,"body":"book Playing in Reality."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":644.783,"endTime":647.273,"body":"And I think he was"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":644.783,"endTime":647.273,"body":"probably one of the"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":647.273,"endTime":650.243,"body":"early ones who brought"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":647.273,"endTime":650.243,"body":"the importance of play."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":651.125,"endTime":652.3850000000001,"body":"Into the mix."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":653.0390000000001,"endTime":656.839,"body":"seen that in terms of um,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":653.0390000000001,"endTime":656.839,"body":"around the world where"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":656.844,"endTime":659.119,"body":"children haven't had"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":656.844,"endTime":659.119,"body":"the opportunity to play"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":659.72,"endTime":663.5,"body":"the problems that that"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":659.72,"endTime":663.5,"body":"causes the lack of play."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":664.096,"endTime":668.086,"body":"Yeah, I think before"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":664.096,"endTime":668.086,"body":"he was promoting his concept,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":668.2470000000001,"endTime":671.9670000000001,"body":"people just thought of babies"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":668.2470000000001,"endTime":671.9670000000001,"body":"as being just little adults,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":672.3570000000001,"endTime":673.827,"body":"just tiny little adults."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":674.2470000000001,"endTime":676.767,"body":"And no it's the other"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":674.2470000000001,"endTime":676.767,"body":"way around as adults are"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":676.767,"endTime":678.0870000000001,"body":"just stretched out kids."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":678.5500000000001,"endTime":680.9970000000001,"body":"in, history that"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":678.5500000000001,"endTime":680.9970000000001,"body":"children didn't have the same"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":681.344,"endTime":686.7040000000001,"body":"of time they do in our society"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":681.344,"endTime":686.7040000000001,"body":"to, to live as children,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":687.196,"endTime":691.875,"body":"going up the chimneys and"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":687.196,"endTime":691.875,"body":"that sort of  tell us more"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":691.875,"endTime":694.1020000000001,"body":"about Melanie Klein's I,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":694.926,"endTime":697.6210000000001,"body":"Well, Melanie"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":694.926,"endTime":697.6210000000001,"body":"Klein was, one of the first"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":697.6210000000001,"endTime":699.851,"body":"ones to say that, children."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":700.2130000000001,"endTime":702.2230000000001,"body":"If we're not careful, if"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":700.2130000000001,"endTime":702.2230000000001,"body":"they're not, if they're not"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":702.2230000000001,"endTime":706.243,"body":"treated in the way that meets"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":702.2230000000001,"endTime":706.243,"body":"their needs can very easily"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":706.243,"endTime":710.3530000000001,"body":"develop this sort of black or"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":706.243,"endTime":710.3530000000001,"body":"white thinking good or bad."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":710.5160000000001,"endTime":712.3760000000001,"body":"And sometimes the"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":710.5160000000001,"endTime":712.3760000000001,"body":"parents are good."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":712.791,"endTime":714.4340000000001,"body":"Because their needs get met."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":714.504,"endTime":717.114,"body":"The nappy gets changed"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":714.504,"endTime":717.114,"body":"or the food arrives,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":717.1740000000001,"endTime":718.1,"body":"or they get the cuddle."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":718.1,"endTime":719.0740000000001,"body":"The parent is good."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":719.134,"endTime":720.214,"body":"The mother is good."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":720.274,"endTime":722.931,"body":"The good mother, or as"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":720.274,"endTime":722.931,"body":"Melanie Klein sometimes"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":722.936,"endTime":724.1310000000001,"body":"called it the good breast."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":724.191,"endTime":725.0310000000001,"body":"Why breast?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":725.061,"endTime":726.801,"body":"I dunno, cuz of"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":725.061,"endTime":726.801,"body":"food, I suppose."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":726.801,"endTime":729.874,"body":"Cause it was all about"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":726.801,"endTime":729.874,"body":"the drive to to survive."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":729.874,"endTime":730.4010000000001,"body":"I suppose"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":730.619,"endTime":732.119,"body":"just to interrupt"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":730.619,"endTime":732.119,"body":"you a sec, that there"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":732.119,"endTime":733.7700000000001,"body":"is, , warmth and cuddles."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":734.4340000000001,"endTime":737.344,"body":"And security associated"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":734.4340000000001,"endTime":737.344,"body":"with that as well."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":737.344,"endTime":742.0540000000001,"body":"If you're feeding a baby,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":737.344,"endTime":742.0540000000001,"body":"then it, it all comes that all"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":742.1590000000001,"endTime":743.119,"body":"It's not"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":742.1590000000001,"endTime":743.119,"body":"just about milk."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":743.119,"endTime":743.4490000000001,"body":"Is it?"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":743.524,"endTime":744.4540000000001,"body":"It's not just about"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":744.4540000000001,"endTime":744.7840000000001,"body":"milk."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":744.904,"endTime":745.234,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":745.489,"endTime":745.9090000000001,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":746.4490000000001,"endTime":746.6590000000001,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":746.6590000000001,"endTime":749.089,"body":"That's probably what she meant"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":746.6590000000001,"endTime":749.089,"body":"more likely that than milk,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":749.719,"endTime":749.989,"body":"but"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":750.364,"endTime":751.264,"body":"I think it's both."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":751.8190000000001,"endTime":754.2230000000001,"body":"Yeah, So is"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":751.8190000000001,"endTime":754.2230000000001,"body":"it, is it a good mother?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":754.2230000000001,"endTime":755.003,"body":"Is it a bad mother?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":755.003,"endTime":758.931,"body":"And if it's inconsistent,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":755.003,"endTime":758.931,"body":"then the, the child as it's"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":758.951,"endTime":761.0830000000001,"body":"growing, doesn't feel safe."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":761.293,"endTime":763.7030000000001,"body":"Doesn't feel as if the"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":761.293,"endTime":763.7030000000001,"body":"mother or anybody else is"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":763.7030000000001,"endTime":765.2030000000001,"body":"going to meet their needs."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":765.3530000000001,"endTime":767.783,"body":"And they're gonna be angry"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":765.3530000000001,"endTime":767.783,"body":"about that in the same way"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":767.783,"endTime":771.2370000000001,"body":"that you take away a toddlers"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":767.783,"endTime":771.2370000000001,"body":"to it's going to scream."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":771.772,"endTime":773.7220000000001,"body":"Or you, you give"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":771.772,"endTime":773.7220000000001,"body":"it the wrong toy."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":773.9620000000001,"endTime":775.142,"body":"It's going to scream."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":775.2220000000001,"endTime":776.302,"body":"Well, it's just a toy."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":776.302,"endTime":777.1120000000001,"body":"It's fine."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":777.4720000000001,"endTime":778.3720000000001,"body":"They want something to eat."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":778.3720000000001,"endTime":780.3520000000001,"body":"So you give them"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":778.3720000000001,"endTime":780.3520000000001,"body":"something, not this, they"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":780.3570000000001,"endTime":781.402,"body":"weren't expecting that."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":781.402,"endTime":783.412,"body":"And the, the, the"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":781.402,"endTime":783.412,"body":"juice goes everywhere."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":783.8620000000001,"endTime":784.582,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":784.8520000000001,"endTime":787.301,"body":"This is what children do"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":784.8520000000001,"endTime":787.301,"body":"when the needs don't get met."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":787.3610000000001,"endTime":791.081,"body":"But as long as we don't"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":787.3610000000001,"endTime":791.081,"body":"give them a clout or ignore"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":791.081,"endTime":793.3470000000001,"body":"them for it, or put them"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":791.081,"endTime":793.3470000000001,"body":"on the naughty step over"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":793.3470000000001,"endTime":796.917,"body":"the simplest of things and"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":793.3470000000001,"endTime":796.917,"body":"make them feel rejected and"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":796.9970000000001,"endTime":801.4720000000001,"body":"ostracized and valueless,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":796.9970000000001,"endTime":801.4720000000001,"body":"then we are being good enough."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":802.282,"endTime":806.3660000000001,"body":"And what Klein noticed is that"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":802.282,"endTime":806.3660000000001,"body":"children that did have those"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":806.3660000000001,"endTime":810.7460000000001,"body":"sorts of experiences did see"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":806.3660000000001,"endTime":810.7460000000001,"body":"the world in a different way."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":810.952,"endTime":815.542,"body":"The extremes would be"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":810.952,"endTime":815.542,"body":"nowadays labeled as either"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":815.812,"endTime":819.9820000000001,"body":"borderline traits or that"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":815.812,"endTime":819.9820000000001,"body":"horrible phrase of emotionally"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":820.432,"endTime":822.082,"body":"unstable personality disorder."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":822.1120000000001,"endTime":823.9720000000001,"body":"And I know that's"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":822.1120000000001,"endTime":823.9720000000001,"body":"often reserved."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":824.4480000000001,"endTime":827.355,"body":"More severe neglect in,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":824.4480000000001,"endTime":827.355,"body":"in those younger years."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":827.355,"endTime":832.095,"body":"But once the ball starts"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":827.355,"endTime":832.095,"body":"rolling and our brain starts"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":832.575,"endTime":836.475,"body":"expecting rejections and"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":832.575,"endTime":836.475,"body":"our needs not being met,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":836.5350000000001,"endTime":839.325,"body":"we get hardwired into feel"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":836.5350000000001,"endTime":839.325,"body":"it all the more because"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":839.325,"endTime":840.7650000000001,"body":"the brain is primed for it."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":840.9680000000001,"endTime":842.738,"body":"So then the slightest"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":840.9680000000001,"endTime":842.738,"body":"rejection happens again"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":842.738,"endTime":844.5680000000001,"body":"a little bit later on"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":842.738,"endTime":844.5680000000001,"body":"in life when we are five"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":844.5680000000001,"endTime":845.918,"body":"or six, cuz it does."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":846.008,"endTime":847.8080000000001,"body":"Somebody turns their back"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":846.008,"endTime":847.8080000000001,"body":"on us in the playground."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":847.888,"endTime":850.3480000000001,"body":"There's another core memory,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":847.888,"endTime":850.3480000000001,"body":"cuz we're emotional about it."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":850.378,"endTime":853.5580000000001,"body":"Cause we've always been a bit"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":850.378,"endTime":853.5580000000001,"body":"emotional about rejection and"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":853.5580000000001,"endTime":855.3580000000001,"body":"then there's something else"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":853.5580000000001,"endTime":855.3580000000001,"body":"when we're seven and eight"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":855.363,"endTime":859.4440000000001,"body":"and nine and 10 it becomes"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":855.363,"endTime":859.4440000000001,"body":"every day because there are"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":859.6940000000001,"endTime":863.254,"body":"rejections every day, every"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":859.6940000000001,"endTime":863.254,"body":"day somebody else is being"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":863.254,"endTime":864.724,"body":"spoken to and we are not."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":865.114,"endTime":867.754,"body":"And if we equate that to"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":865.114,"endTime":867.754,"body":"being, I have no value."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":868.1990000000001,"endTime":870.899,"body":"Dare you talk to me like"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":868.1990000000001,"endTime":870.899,"body":"that or not talk to me, how"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":870.899,"endTime":874.1690000000001,"body":"dare you treat me this way"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":870.899,"endTime":874.1690000000001,"body":"over the slightest of things,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":874.619,"endTime":876.8620000000001,"body":"then actually somebody's"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":874.619,"endTime":876.8620000000001,"body":"parents, they might have"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":876.8860000000001,"endTime":881.4680000000001,"body":"been good enough kind of,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":876.8860000000001,"endTime":881.4680000000001,"body":"but still it sends them"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":881.4680000000001,"endTime":885.4580000000001,"body":"down a pathway that develops"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":881.4680000000001,"endTime":885.4580000000001,"body":"into this huge rejection"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":885.4580000000001,"endTime":889.278,"body":"sensitivity, which like"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":889.8280000000001,"endTime":890.488,"body":"Sarah."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":891.3380000000001,"endTime":893.048,"body":"Sarah,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":891.3380000000001,"endTime":893.048,"body":"Tara, not quite sure."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":893.048,"endTime":893.648,"body":"Sorry, Sarah."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":893.653,"endTime":894.1880000000001,"body":"Sorry, Sarah."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":894.677,"endTime":898.6370000000001,"body":"Uh, has been experiencing and,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":894.677,"endTime":898.6370000000001,"body":"and then again, those same"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":898.6370000000001,"endTime":902.4770000000001,"body":"experiences can happen even"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":898.6370000000001,"endTime":902.4770000000001,"body":"in therapy because there is a"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":902.4770000000001,"endTime":905.327,"body":"slight mini rejection at the"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":902.4770000000001,"endTime":905.327,"body":"end of somebody's session."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":905.5070000000001,"endTime":908.027,"body":"So it makes absolute sense"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":905.5070000000001,"endTime":908.027,"body":"that the end of somebody's"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":908.1170000000001,"endTime":910.9670000000001,"body":"therapy session, when the"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":908.1170000000001,"endTime":910.9670000000001,"body":"therapist looks at the clock"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":910.9720000000001,"endTime":914.327,"body":"and says, well, it looks"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":910.9720000000001,"endTime":914.327,"body":"like we've come to time."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":914.3870000000001,"endTime":914.604,"body":"I think we need to"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":914.3870000000001,"endTime":914.604,"body":"pick up on this again."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":914.604,"endTime":914.606,"body":"Next time."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":915.182,"endTime":918.2420000000001,"body":"I totally get it, that"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":915.182,"endTime":918.2420000000001,"body":"there is that sinking."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":918.3620000000001,"endTime":921.0020000000001,"body":"Uh, I'm not that important"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":918.3620000000001,"endTime":921.0020000000001,"body":"to you after all."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":921.0020000000001,"endTime":921.332,"body":"Am I?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":921.8720000000001,"endTime":924.332,"body":"And I don't have you I've"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":921.8720000000001,"endTime":924.332,"body":"seen that in clients, I've"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":924.332,"endTime":925.3520000000001,"body":"seen it in their face."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":925.9820000000001,"endTime":926.942,"body":"Have, have you seen that?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":926.942,"endTime":927.0020000000001,"body":"Uh,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":927.562,"endTime":927.922,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":927.922,"endTime":930.7090000000001,"body":"And I felt it, , you"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":927.922,"endTime":930.7090000000001,"body":"know, cuz all, all, um,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":930.7090000000001,"endTime":933.499,"body":"psychotherapists have to have"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":930.7090000000001,"endTime":933.499,"body":"their own therapy of course."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":934.009,"endTime":934.279,"body":"And."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":934.9190000000001,"endTime":935.1590000000001,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":935.489,"endTime":938.489,"body":"When you get to the end,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":935.489,"endTime":938.489,"body":"I, I know that I've pushed"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":938.9090000000001,"endTime":942.8850000000001,"body":"that time boundary, see if"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":938.9090000000001,"endTime":942.8850000000001,"body":"I'm valuable enough to get a"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":942.8850000000001,"endTime":947.355,"body":"few more minutes and then as"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":942.8850000000001,"endTime":947.355,"body":"it's a paradox, because then"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":947.355,"endTime":949.965,"body":"I'm thinking, oh, you really"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":947.355,"endTime":949.965,"body":"shouldn't have done that."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":951.965,"endTime":952.255,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":953.277,"endTime":954.927,"body":"but it is"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":953.277,"endTime":954.927,"body":"absolutely normal."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":955.269,"endTime":958.1790000000001,"body":"A subtle difference there"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":955.269,"endTime":958.1790000000001,"body":"is sort of, is she losing,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":958.322,"endTime":960.902,"body":"losing her with the phrase?"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":960.9620000000001,"endTime":962.7320000000001,"body":"I'm never going"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":960.9620000000001,"endTime":962.7320000000001,"body":"to see her again."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":963.0340000000001,"endTime":965.1640000000001,"body":"But it's, it's along"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":963.0340000000001,"endTime":965.1640000000001,"body":"the same lines."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":965.1640000000001,"endTime":967.359,"body":"It's just sort of a parallel"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":965.1640000000001,"endTime":967.359,"body":"route, a little root"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":967.4100000000001,"endTime":969.427,"body":"from similar experiences."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":969.697,"endTime":971.2510000000001,"body":"I suspect in the past."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":972.196,"endTime":974.995,"body":"I want to go back to what"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":972.196,"endTime":974.995,"body":"you were saying earlier about"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":975.2600000000001,"endTime":979.3290000000001,"body":"understanding what you're"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":975.2600000000001,"endTime":979.3290000000001,"body":"feeling, understanding"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":979.389,"endTime":982.296,"body":"where it's come from"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":979.389,"endTime":982.296,"body":"and then basically just"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":982.416,"endTime":984.0060000000001,"body":"accepting it's okay."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":984.0060000000001,"endTime":985.956,"body":"I think that was such"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":984.0060000000001,"endTime":985.956,"body":"an important thing that"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":986.2860000000001,"endTime":989.4060000000001,"body":"you said, and I want to,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":986.2860000000001,"endTime":989.4060000000001,"body":"I want to emphasize how"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":989.4060000000001,"endTime":993.5160000000001,"body":"important that is, that"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":989.4060000000001,"endTime":993.5160000000001,"body":"our emotional reactions,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":993.5160000000001,"endTime":994.3860000000001,"body":"if we can understand."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":995.08,"endTime":995.9200000000001,"body":"we know why."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":996.302,"endTime":1001.427,"body":"and we can say, oh yeah, well,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":996.302,"endTime":1001.427,"body":"that's why I felt that why"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1001.427,"endTime":1003.624,"body":"I do feel that makes sense."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1003.865,"endTime":1004.9150000000001,"body":"It's okay."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1004.9630000000001,"endTime":1008.8000000000001,"body":"That gives much more scope"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1004.9630000000001,"endTime":1008.8000000000001,"body":"for moving on from it."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1008.981,"endTime":1010.421,"body":"I think it's the fighting."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1011.053,"endTime":1011.9830000000001,"body":"These feelings."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1011.9830000000001,"endTime":1013.4530000000001,"body":"That's the real problem."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1013.705,"endTime":1014.365,"body":"It is."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1014.695,"endTime":1018.085,"body":"It absolutely is when"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1014.695,"endTime":1018.085,"body":"for so many different"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1018.205,"endTime":1021.205,"body":"issues and problems and"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1018.205,"endTime":1021.205,"body":"conditions, people contact"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1021.21,"endTime":1024.235,"body":"me and say, I have this"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1021.21,"endTime":1024.235,"body":"feeling, how do I stop it?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1024.535,"endTime":1026.275,"body":"How do I stop this feeling?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1026.275,"endTime":1029.335,"body":"Whether it's, whether"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1026.275,"endTime":1029.335,"body":"it's grief or anger,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1029.575,"endTime":1030.805,"body":"how do I stop my anger?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1031.405,"endTime":1035.006,"body":"Oh, My, my answer"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1031.405,"endTime":1035.006,"body":"often is don't."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1035.072,"endTime":1037.862,"body":"You don't want to"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1035.072,"endTime":1037.862,"body":"stop your emotions."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1037.862,"endTime":1040.052,"body":"Why would you want to"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1037.862,"endTime":1040.052,"body":"stop your feelings?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1040.052,"endTime":1041.882,"body":"They're there for a"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1040.052,"endTime":1041.882,"body":"reason, your body, your"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1041.972,"endTime":1044.672,"body":"unconscious mind is trying"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1041.972,"endTime":1044.672,"body":"to tell you something."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1044.762,"endTime":1048.702,"body":"And if you ignore it or try to"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1044.762,"endTime":1048.702,"body":"stop it or medicate it away as"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1048.722,"endTime":1051.272,"body":"in whichever way shape of one"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1048.722,"endTime":1051.272,"body":"people do, whether it's with"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1052.262,"endTime":1055.628,"body":"recreational drugs, alcohol."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1056.6979999999999,"endTime":1060.068,"body":"Cannabis cocaine, whatever,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1056.6979999999999,"endTime":1060.068,"body":"or to medicate the way by"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1060.068,"endTime":1062.048,"body":"going the GP and going, I've"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1060.068,"endTime":1062.048,"body":"got this horrible feeling."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1062.048,"endTime":1062.888,"body":"How do I stop it?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1062.888,"endTime":1065.558,"body":"And the GP's only got"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1062.888,"endTime":1065.558,"body":"one place to go for that,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1066.008,"endTime":1067.538,"body":"especially if it's quick"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1066.008,"endTime":1067.538,"body":"to go, well, here's a"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1067.538,"endTime":1069.248,"body":"prescription to try and"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1067.538,"endTime":1069.248,"body":"stop the way that you're"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1069.248,"endTime":1071.558,"body":"feeling and then things"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1069.248,"endTime":1071.558,"body":"don't get addressed."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1072.118,"endTime":1074.6979999999999,"body":"And although there is"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1072.118,"endTime":1074.6979999999999,"body":"a there is a place for"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1074.6979999999999,"endTime":1076.048,"body":"medication in therapy."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1076.048,"endTime":1076.918,"body":"Of course there is."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1077.4109999999998,"endTime":1079.271,"body":"Cause it gives you that"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1077.4109999999998,"endTime":1079.271,"body":"stepping stone to go, okay."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1080.021,"endTime":1083.1109999999999,"body":"Now I'm in a better place to"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1080.021,"endTime":1083.1109999999999,"body":"be able to try and understand"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1083.254,"endTime":1086.492,"body":"why I feel the way that I"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1083.254,"endTime":1086.492,"body":"feel I've had clients with"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1086.732,"endTime":1089.672,"body":"quite severe depression that"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1086.732,"endTime":1089.672,"body":"can't start talk therapy"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1090.375,"endTime":1093.11,"body":"without medication sometimes"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1090.375,"endTime":1093.11,"body":"because they can't think"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1093.11,"endTime":1094.58,"body":"straight to talk straight."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1094.6699999999998,"endTime":1097.49,"body":"And the session's probably"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1094.6699999999998,"endTime":1097.49,"body":"gonna be a waste of time,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1097.58,"endTime":1101.96,"body":"but with some diazepam or"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1097.58,"endTime":1101.96,"body":"something similar or whatever,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1101.96,"endTime":1104.9299999999998,"body":"and not our business,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1101.96,"endTime":1104.9299999999998,"body":"they can start to think."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1104.9299999999998,"endTime":1105.98,"body":"The fog can lift."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1106.3999999999999,"endTime":1107.75,"body":"They can think a little"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1106.3999999999999,"endTime":1107.75,"body":"clearer and they can"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1107.75,"endTime":1108.86,"body":"sit down and go, right."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1109.76,"endTime":1111.32,"body":"I've had a horrible"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1109.76,"endTime":1111.32,"body":"week and this is why"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1111.35,"endTime":1112.3999999999999,"body":"this is how I felt."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1112.49,"endTime":1113.45,"body":"And then we can play with it."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1113.45,"endTime":1115.1599999999999,"body":"Then we can pick it"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1113.45,"endTime":1115.1599999999999,"body":"apart and go, well, it"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1115.1599999999999,"endTime":1115.7,"body":"makes sense."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1115.7,"endTime":1118.3999999999999,"body":"You felt that way and"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1115.7,"endTime":1118.3999999999999,"body":"it's not to be stopped."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1118.49,"endTime":1119.96,"body":"It's there to be understood."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1120.35,"endTime":1121.31,"body":"And the ultimate"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1121.822,"endTime":1123.322,"body":"point to, to get to"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1123.3519999999999,"endTime":1125.722,"body":"is to feel it,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1123.3519999999999,"endTime":1125.722,"body":"accept it and let it"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1125.722,"endTime":1126.3519999999999,"body":"pass."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1126.772,"endTime":1129.0819999999999,"body":"That takes practice,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1126.772,"endTime":1129.0819999999999,"body":"especially when it comes"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1129.0819999999999,"endTime":1132.982,"body":"to things like rejection,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1129.0819999999999,"endTime":1132.982,"body":"because rejection is a, is."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1132.982,"endTime":1134.302,"body":"a deep, deep,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1134.5249999999999,"endTime":1136.3419999999999,"body":"instinct inside of us"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1136.762,"endTime":1138.262,"body":"that we associate with pain."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1138.2669999999998,"endTime":1139.1319999999998,"body":"It's dangerous"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1139.691,"endTime":1139.991,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1140.021,"endTime":1143.6009999999999,"body":"Being re being rejected"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1140.021,"endTime":1143.6009999999999,"body":"from the tribe is."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1143.812,"endTime":1144.292,"body":"Your dead."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1144.741,"endTime":1145.0729999999999,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1145.221,"endTime":1145.521,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1145.778,"endTime":1146.768,"body":"The lion's"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1145.778,"endTime":1146.768,"body":"gonna get you."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1146.768,"endTime":1147.763,"body":"It's not, it's not,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1147.763,"endTime":1148.003,"body":"a good"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1148.003,"endTime":1148.243,"body":"thing,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1148.993,"endTime":1150.463,"body":"except that going"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1150.463,"endTime":1152.713,"body":"back to what we said earlier,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1150.463,"endTime":1152.713,"body":"both of us have said it,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1152.953,"endTime":1154.273,"body":"everybody gets rejected."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1154.355,"endTime":1155.7949999999998,"body":"I was thinking when you"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1154.355,"endTime":1155.7949999999998,"body":"were talking about that,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1155.7949999999998,"endTime":1157.205,"body":"about job interviews."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1157.7359999999999,"endTime":1158.0359999999998,"body":"Well,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1158.0359999999998,"endTime":1158.567,"body":"the, the,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1158.567,"endTime":1161.231,"body":"logic is that, well,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1158.567,"endTime":1161.231,"body":"certainly at the moment"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1161.231,"endTime":1162.6109999999999,"body":"you've got dozens."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1162.6109999999999,"endTime":1164.231,"body":"If not hundreds of applicants"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1164.231,"endTime":1166.36,"body":"for every job, Apart"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1164.231,"endTime":1166.36,"body":"from the ones that"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1166.365,"endTime":1168.04,"body":"can't be filled, but"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1166.365,"endTime":1168.04,"body":"that's, we talked"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1168.04,"endTime":1168.73,"body":"about that last time."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1168.8809999999999,"endTime":1172.6209999999999,"body":"statistically, everybody's"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1168.8809999999999,"endTime":1172.6209999999999,"body":"going to be rejected far"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1172.6209999999999,"endTime":1175.697,"body":"more times than they're"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1172.6209999999999,"endTime":1175.697,"body":"going to be accepted."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1175.7649999999999,"endTime":1176.245,"body":"So"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1176.724,"endTime":1180.691,"body":"if one was to take that"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1176.724,"endTime":1180.691,"body":"as, a personal rejection,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1180.857,"endTime":1182.533,"body":"that's gonna be painful."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1182.6699999999998,"endTime":1183.09,"body":"Hmm."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1183.57,"endTime":1183.9299999999998,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1184.2,"endTime":1186.24,"body":"And if you're already"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1184.2,"endTime":1186.24,"body":"sensitive to it in the first"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1186.24,"endTime":1189.1499999999999,"body":"place, it just builds and"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1186.24,"endTime":1189.1499999999999,"body":"builds and builds until just"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1189.1499999999999,"endTime":1192.21,"body":"somebody rolling their eyes"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1189.1499999999999,"endTime":1192.21,"body":"at you or not replying to"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1192.21,"endTime":1193.4399999999998,"body":"your text message fast enough."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1193.98,"endTime":1197.55,"body":"It feels the same as if"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1193.98,"endTime":1197.55,"body":"somebody's just broken"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1197.55,"endTime":1200.01,"body":"into your house and stamped"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1197.55,"endTime":1200.01,"body":"all over your puppies."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1200.7749999999999,"endTime":1201.675,"body":"Genuinely."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1201.975,"endTime":1204.0449999999998,"body":"And it's a horrible thing"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1201.975,"endTime":1204.0449999999998,"body":"to think, but that's the,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1204.0449999999998,"endTime":1206.235,"body":"that's the example I use"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1204.0449999999998,"endTime":1206.235,"body":"with my clients and you can"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1206.235,"endTime":1207.945,"body":"see the eyes widen and go."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1208.365,"endTime":1210.465,"body":"That is how it feels go."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1210.465,"endTime":1211.905,"body":"Yeah, it is how it feels."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1211.905,"endTime":1212.475,"body":"I know."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1212.835,"endTime":1216.645,"body":"And all somebody did is just"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1212.835,"endTime":1216.645,"body":"rolled their eyes or was"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1216.645,"endTime":1219.2549999999999,"body":"talking to somebody else"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1216.645,"endTime":1219.2549999999999,"body":"and, and just ignored you"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1219.2549999999999,"endTime":1221.715,"body":"because you can only listen"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1219.2549999999999,"endTime":1221.715,"body":"to one conversation at a time."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1221.985,"endTime":1225.915,"body":"The feeling of rage,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1221.985,"endTime":1225.915,"body":"absolute rage is the same"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1225.915,"endTime":1227.895,"body":"as if somebody's broken"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1225.915,"endTime":1227.895,"body":"into the house and stamped"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1227.895,"endTime":1228.885,"body":"all over their pets."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1229.725,"endTime":1231.075,"body":"It feels that bad."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1231.495,"endTime":1233.355,"body":"And I think we all"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1231.495,"endTime":1233.355,"body":"need to know that"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1233.355,"endTime":1234.825,"body":"this exists in people."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1234.975,"endTime":1237.825,"body":"So when people are"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1234.975,"endTime":1237.825,"body":"overly sensitive and"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1237.825,"endTime":1242.595,"body":"they do overreact that"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1237.825,"endTime":1242.595,"body":"we understand why, and we"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1242.595,"endTime":1245.31,"body":"can say to them, I get it."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1246.06,"endTime":1247.62,"body":"I get why you feel that way."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1247.86,"endTime":1250.59,"body":"When they send a hurtful"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1247.86,"endTime":1250.59,"body":"text message back to go"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1251.587,"endTime":1254.2269999999999,"body":"as is a typical trait,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1251.587,"endTime":1254.2269999999999,"body":"when somebody's being"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1254.2269999999999,"endTime":1255.817,"body":"hurt, you're gonna abuse."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1256.537,"endTime":1259.807,"body":"And this is that this is"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1256.537,"endTime":1259.807,"body":"why particularly women,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1259.807,"endTime":1262.777,"body":"men don't seem to get, get"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1259.807,"endTime":1262.777,"body":"shot down for this for some"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1262.777,"endTime":1265.2369999999999,"body":"strange reason, but women"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1262.777,"endTime":1265.2369999999999,"body":"do because of patriarchy."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1265.8139999999999,"endTime":1270.194,"body":"women are gonna get labeled"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1265.8139999999999,"endTime":1270.194,"body":"as crazy psycho, the psycho"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1270.194,"endTime":1274.004,"body":"ex-girlfriend who just went"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1270.194,"endTime":1274.004,"body":"mad at her ex over nothing,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1274.634,"endTime":1276.5839999999998,"body":"threw his clothes out of"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1274.634,"endTime":1276.5839999999998,"body":"the window and then, and"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1276.5839999999998,"endTime":1278.796,"body":"then set fire to his car."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1278.796,"endTime":1281.7359999999999,"body":"You know, that's an"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1278.796,"endTime":1281.7359999999999,"body":"exaggeration, but certainly"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1281.7359999999999,"endTime":1283.176,"body":"threw paint all over"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1281.7359999999999,"endTime":1283.176,"body":"it, I've heard, I've"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1283.176,"endTime":1283.836,"body":"heard those stories."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1283.836,"endTime":1284.2559999999999,"body":"A lot."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1284.7659999999998,"endTime":1287.5259999999998,"body":"Those people who do"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1284.7659999999998,"endTime":1287.5259999999998,"body":"those things are hurting."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1287.5259999999998,"endTime":1289.116,"body":"Nobody does that"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1287.5259999999998,"endTime":1289.116,"body":"for no reason."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1289.538,"endTime":1292.9279999999999,"body":"They're in a lot of pain"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1289.538,"endTime":1292.9279999999999,"body":"and that pain needs to be"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1293.288,"endTime":1295.4779999999998,"body":"recognised by other people,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1293.288,"endTime":1295.4779999999998,"body":"even though they shouldn't"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1295.4779999999998,"endTime":1297.4279999999999,"body":"feel that way they do."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1297.9679999999998,"endTime":1302.807,"body":"If you've got a, a genuine"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1297.9679999999998,"endTime":1302.807,"body":"open wound on your arm, cuz"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1302.807,"endTime":1306.0839999999998,"body":"you burnt it on something"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1302.807,"endTime":1306.0839999999998,"body":"and it's genuinely took"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1306.0839999999998,"endTime":1307.0739999999998,"body":"off most of the skin."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1307.854,"endTime":1310.0739999999998,"body":"Somebody comes along just"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1307.854,"endTime":1310.0739999999998,"body":"gives you a little slap on it."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1310.374,"endTime":1312.474,"body":"Just as a, I'm only"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1310.374,"endTime":1312.474,"body":"joking, just a little"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1312.474,"endTime":1313.494,"body":"slap, slap, slap."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1314.619,"endTime":1316.869,"body":"You're gonna scream the"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1314.619,"endTime":1316.869,"body":"place down, cuz you've"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1316.869,"endTime":1318.1889999999999,"body":"got no skin there."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1318.1889999999999,"endTime":1319.9289999999999,"body":"You've just poked"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1318.1889999999999,"endTime":1319.9289999999999,"body":"an open wound."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1320.049,"endTime":1320.769,"body":"How dare"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1320.9489999999998,"endTime":1321.309,"body":"you."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1321.6989999999998,"endTime":1323.4089999999999,"body":"It's going to hurt."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1323.529,"endTime":1324.129,"body":"And for a lot of"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1324.129,"endTime":1325.149,"body":"people, sadly,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1325.869,"endTime":1327.789,"body":"their emotions"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1325.869,"endTime":1327.789,"body":"are that sensitive"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1327.879,"endTime":1329.289,"body":"because they've had"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1330.2189999999998,"endTime":1333.489,"body":"so many of these teeny tiny,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1330.2189999999998,"endTime":1333.489,"body":"minor rejections, maybe some"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1334.1989999999998,"endTime":1334.9589999999998,"body":"big ones as well,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1334.9589999999998,"endTime":1335.52,"body":"maybe some abandonment"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1335.979,"endTime":1339.1589999999999,"body":"stuff from when they,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1335.979,"endTime":1339.1589999999999,"body":"were little, but it's just"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1339.4589999999998,"endTime":1340.4489999999998,"body":"built and built and built"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1340.4489999999998,"endTime":1341.559,"body":"and built over the years."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1341.8999999999999,"endTime":1347.071,"body":"And similarly losses,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1341.8999999999999,"endTime":1347.071,"body":"as in Judy's example, they,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1347.1009999999999,"endTime":1351.972,"body":"they compound, and it becomes"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1347.1009999999999,"endTime":1351.972,"body":"the fear of it recurring."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1351.972,"endTime":1353.231,"body":"Becomes bigger and bigger."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1353.781,"endTime":1354.1589999999999,"body":"Um, and"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1354.1589999999999,"endTime":1356.079,"body":"again, you know, we're"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1354.1589999999999,"endTime":1356.079,"body":"all gonna have losses, but"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1356.139,"endTime":1357.519,"body":"we'll talk about that on our"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1357.9389999999999,"endTime":1359.829,"body":"existential episode,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1357.9389999999999,"endTime":1359.829,"body":"when we get to that one,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1360.685,"endTime":1361.405,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1361.405,"endTime":1362.575,"body":"I think that would"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1361.405,"endTime":1362.575,"body":"be quite good."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1362.995,"endTime":1363.955,"body":"Do you want,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1362.995,"endTime":1363.955,"body":"well, should we do"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1363.955,"endTime":1364.7649999999999,"body":"that next time?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1364.825,"endTime":1366.8049999999998,"body":"Should we talk about"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1364.825,"endTime":1366.8049999999998,"body":"existentialism next time"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1366.8049999999998,"endTime":1367.165,"body":"we meet"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1367.389,"endTime":1367.9589999999998,"body":"go on, then."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1368.735,"endTime":1369.3049999999998,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1369.321,"endTime":1371.001,"body":"you've hinted that"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1369.321,"endTime":1371.001,"body":"you've wanted to do it."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1371.0059999999999,"endTime":1371.811,"body":"Like every third"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1371.811,"endTime":1372.731,"body":"episode you've gone."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1372.8609999999999,"endTime":1373.941,"body":"I just drop it in"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1374.022,"endTime":1377.059,"body":"Is that really, your"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1374.022,"endTime":1377.059,"body":"bag, purpose and meaning?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1377.433,"endTime":1377.763,"body":"I mean it's"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1378.062,"endTime":1381.482,"body":"It's it's, it's, one"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1378.062,"endTime":1381.482,"body":"of my bags, if you like."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1381.722,"endTime":1382.202,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1382.442,"endTime":1385.472,"body":"I, I, I find it,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1382.442,"endTime":1385.472,"body":"um, really really"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1385.472,"endTime":1387.0919999999999,"body":"interesting, with certain"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1387.097,"endTime":1389.312,"body":"clients, but just generally in"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1389.312,"endTime":1391.952,"body":"life, I think, you"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1389.312,"endTime":1391.952,"body":"know, for anybody."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1392.115,"endTime":1395.4869999999999,"body":"Because of course, most of"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1392.115,"endTime":1395.4869999999999,"body":"the time as a therapist,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1395.5929999999998,"endTime":1396.6129999999998,"body":"I'm sure you are the"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1396.6129999999998,"endTime":1396.973,"body":"same."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1397.243,"endTime":1398.773,"body":"Most of the time"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1397.243,"endTime":1398.773,"body":"we're working with"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1398.773,"endTime":1401.758,"body":"people who have issues"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1398.773,"endTime":1401.758,"body":"that they want to resolve"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1401.788,"endTime":1404.788,"body":"rather than just the"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1401.788,"endTime":1404.788,"body":"philosophy of life."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1404.788,"endTime":1408.885,"body":"And what's it all about, do"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1404.788,"endTime":1408.885,"body":"get those from time to time."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1408.899,"endTime":1412.713,"body":"It's not a dominant part"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1408.899,"endTime":1412.713,"body":"of our practices, but"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1412.893,"endTime":1416.8619999999999,"body":"just talking to people,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1412.893,"endTime":1416.8619999999999,"body":"friends, family, and"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1416.8619999999999,"endTime":1418.1219999999998,"body":"acquaintances, whatever."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1419.375,"endTime":1421.8049999999998,"body":"the existential ideas to be."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1422.1019999999999,"endTime":1422.282,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1422.282,"endTime":1423.77,"body":"Just something to, look at."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1423.8899999999999,"endTime":1424.79,"body":"So we'll do that."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1424.79,"endTime":1425.6899999999998,"body":"Yeah, we'll do that next."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1426.8609999999999,"endTime":1427.821,"body":"Oh, look"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1426.8609999999999,"endTime":1427.821,"body":"forward to it."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1428.876,"endTime":1432.416,"body":"If we were to offer any"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1428.876,"endTime":1432.416,"body":"suggestions, any advice"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1432.416,"endTime":1434.906,"body":"to people out there who"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1432.416,"endTime":1434.906,"body":"have these little mini"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1434.906,"endTime":1438.416,"body":"rejections or these little"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1434.906,"endTime":1438.416,"body":"mini losses, and it feels"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1439.676,"endTime":1440.846,"body":"bigger than it should."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1440.846,"endTime":1443.546,"body":"And they know, I, I, I"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1440.846,"endTime":1443.546,"body":"shouldn't feel this way."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1443.979,"endTime":1445.059,"body":"My advice"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1445.4009999999998,"endTime":1447.951,"body":"is to accept that"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1445.4009999999998,"endTime":1447.951,"body":"actually you should,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1448.281,"endTime":1450.921,"body":"it makes complete sense that"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1448.281,"endTime":1450.921,"body":"you feel the way that you"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1450.921,"endTime":1452.3909999999998,"body":"feel there is no."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1452.3909999999998,"endTime":1452.541,"body":"Oh, I"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1452.541,"endTime":1453.711,"body":"shouldn't feel this way."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1453.741,"endTime":1454.281,"body":"No, you should."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1454.625,"endTime":1456.3049999999998,"body":"If we, if you looked"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1454.625,"endTime":1456.3049999999998,"body":"at it, if you look at"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1456.3049999999998,"endTime":1456.905,"body":"your past and"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1456.905,"endTime":1458.915,"body":"you look at the experiences"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1456.905,"endTime":1458.915,"body":"you've had, you probably"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1458.915,"endTime":1459.953,"body":"should feel this   Raises,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1460.109,"endTime":1463.1689999999999,"body":"should you feel this in the"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1460.109,"endTime":1463.1689999999999,"body":"future so much now that you"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1463.1689999999999,"endTime":1465.1789999999999,"body":"know where it comes from?"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1465.461,"endTime":1467.051,"body":"I think I'd like"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1465.461,"endTime":1467.051,"body":"to take it away from?"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1467.051,"endTime":1469.271,"body":"shoulds and shouldn't"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1467.051,"endTime":1469.271,"body":"and just say you do."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1469.811,"endTime":1471.9109999999998,"body":"and that's, that's that?"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1472.471,"endTime":1473.8809999999999,"body":"And you do,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1474.011,"endTime":1477.1009999999999,"body":"whoever you are, Judy"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1474.011,"endTime":1477.1009999999999,"body":"or Sarah or whoever."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1477.1699999999998,"endTime":1481.1899999999998,"body":"You have some control as"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1477.1699999999998,"endTime":1481.1899999999998,"body":"to whether you will do"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1481.229,"endTime":1484.147,"body":"in the future, but I also"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1481.229,"endTime":1484.147,"body":"want to just say, it's"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1484.147,"endTime":1488.347,"body":"never going to be perfect"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1484.147,"endTime":1488.347,"body":"if you've, if you've been"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1488.347,"endTime":1491.2269999999999,"body":"suffering from these fears"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1488.347,"endTime":1491.2269999999999,"body":"and rejections and so on."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1491.426,"endTime":1495.416,"body":"You can move along a"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1491.426,"endTime":1495.416,"body":"continuum to make it better,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1495.475,"endTime":1496.945,"body":"but they're likely still to"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1497.1219999999998,"endTime":1497.435,"body":"hurt."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1497.692,"endTime":1498.5919999999999,"body":"And that's okay."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1498.5919999999999,"endTime":1501.402,"body":"Which goes back to that"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1498.5919999999999,"endTime":1501.402,"body":"idea of, , accepting"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1501.792,"endTime":1505.242,"body":"that what you're feeling"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1501.792,"endTime":1505.242,"body":"is what you're feeling."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1505.306,"endTime":1507.462,"body":"And sometimes things"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1505.306,"endTime":1507.462,"body":"can surprise you."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1507.597,"endTime":1510.4769999999999,"body":"even if you feel that"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1507.597,"endTime":1510.4769999999999,"body":"you've moved a long way,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1510.566,"endTime":1515.052,"body":"you might suddenly get"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1510.566,"endTime":1515.052,"body":"shooted back shooted shot."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1515.062,"endTime":1516.145,"body":"That would be a better word."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1516.903,"endTime":1518.522,"body":"I had an experienced"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1516.903,"endTime":1518.522,"body":"just this week."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1518.558,"endTime":1519.308,"body":"I was"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1519.322,"endTime":1524.4399999999998,"body":"playing bridge online and my"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1519.322,"endTime":1524.4399999999998,"body":"partner who, I don't know."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1525.046,"endTime":1530.421,"body":"He couldn't see or hear me,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1525.046,"endTime":1530.421,"body":"but I could see and hear him."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1531.021,"endTime":1533.1609999999998,"body":"So the technology wasn't"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1531.021,"endTime":1533.1609999999998,"body":"working brilliantly."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1533.639,"endTime":1536.634,"body":"Anyway, I did something"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1533.639,"endTime":1536.634,"body":"that he didn't like when"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1536.634,"endTime":1539.606,"body":"I was playing the hand and"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1536.634,"endTime":1539.606,"body":"I could see him sitting"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1539.606,"endTime":1540.896,"body":"there shaking his head."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1540.9779999999998,"endTime":1543.484,"body":"Oh, anybody who plays"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1540.9779999999998,"endTime":1543.484,"body":"bridge, there is very"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1543.484,"endTime":1545.0439999999999,"body":"strict bridge etiquette."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1545.134,"endTime":1548.402,"body":"You don't criticize"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1545.134,"endTime":1548.402,"body":"your partner."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1548.828,"endTime":1551.87,"body":"And then a couple of"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1548.828,"endTime":1551.87,"body":"hands later, I didn't do"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1552.02,"endTime":1553.31,"body":"what he wanted me to do."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1553.442,"endTime":1558.542,"body":"And twice he spoke up about"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1553.442,"endTime":1558.542,"body":"the fact that I hadn't done"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1559.052,"endTime":1561.0919999999999,"body":"what he wanted me to do."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1562.982,"endTime":1568.489,"body":"And I was bullied as a child"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1562.982,"endTime":1568.489,"body":"and it took me right back"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1568.494,"endTime":1572.6899999999998,"body":"to that also because I was"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1568.494,"endTime":1572.6899999999998,"body":"I had no voice in that."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1573.08,"endTime":1577.46,"body":"I couldn't say what I"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1573.08,"endTime":1577.46,"body":"wanted to say, because"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1577.46,"endTime":1578.1,"body":"he couldn't hear."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1578.225,"endTime":1578.2849999999999,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1579.172,"endTime":1583.822,"body":"And it was a really, it was"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1579.172,"endTime":1583.822,"body":"a really interesting process"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1583.822,"endTime":1589.222,"body":"for me to, to look at what I"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1583.822,"endTime":1589.222,"body":"was feeling and to, to take"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1589.222,"endTime":1592.432,"body":"that away and go, oh wow."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1592.492,"endTime":1595.282,"body":"I had not expected to be"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1592.492,"endTime":1595.282,"body":"taken back, but it was"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1595.282,"endTime":1599.234,"body":"just sort of almost perfect"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1595.282,"endTime":1599.234,"body":"circumstances to take"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1599.234,"endTime":1600.734,"body":"me back to a voiceless."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1601.604,"endTime":1604.904,"body":"Of being criticized when"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1601.604,"endTime":1604.904,"body":"I wanted to say, oh yeah."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1604.904,"endTime":1606.404,"body":"But yeah."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1606.551,"endTime":1610.29,"body":"And the first one to say,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1606.551,"endTime":1610.29,"body":"no, I didn't get that Wrong."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1610.32,"endTime":1610.77,"body":"The second one."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1610.7749999999999,"endTime":1612.36,"body":"Yes, I did get that"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1610.7749999999999,"endTime":1612.36,"body":"wrong, but this is the"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1612.36,"endTime":1613.4399999999998,"body":"reason I got it wrong."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1614.01,"endTime":1614.28,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1614.644,"endTime":1617.614,"body":"so it's, it's very interesting"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1614.644,"endTime":1617.614,"body":"how you can be triggered"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1617.619,"endTime":1621.8139999999999,"body":"back to something that"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1617.619,"endTime":1621.8139999999999,"body":"you think is resolved."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1622.3529999999998,"endTime":1623.463,"body":"I don't want to"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1622.3529999999998,"endTime":1623.463,"body":"play with him again."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1625.413,"endTime":1629.0729999999999,"body":"but by the next time I play"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1625.413,"endTime":1629.0729999999999,"body":"I'll have taken that extra"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1629.0729999999999,"endTime":1632.223,"body":"step to say he had no idea."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1633.0629999999999,"endTime":1633.423,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1633.463,"endTime":1637.023,"body":"What, what the effect  would"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1633.463,"endTime":1637.023,"body":"be on me because the meaning"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1637.023,"endTime":1642.3329999999999,"body":"a couple of days of thinking,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1637.023,"endTime":1642.3329999999999,"body":"no, I don't want to play with"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1642.3329999999999,"endTime":1644.3129999999999,"body":"you of course, because I can,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1644.973,"endTime":1645.183,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1645.8799999999999,"endTime":1646.6,"body":"Oh, I get that."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1647.1699999999998,"endTime":1648.1599999999999,"body":"I'm sorry, you"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1647.1699999999998,"endTime":1648.1599999999999,"body":"went through that."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1648.49,"endTime":1649.9299999999998,"body":"I'm glad you understand"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1648.49,"endTime":1649.9299999999998,"body":"where it from."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1649.9299999999998,"endTime":1650.4099999999999,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1650.9199999999998,"endTime":1651.49,"body":"Yeah, it is."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1651.49,"endTime":1651.85,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1651.85,"endTime":1653.35,"body":"I mean, I had a"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1651.85,"endTime":1653.35,"body":"similar experience."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1653.6499999999999,"endTime":1654.79,"body":"Oh, it was a few"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1653.6499999999999,"endTime":1654.79,"body":"years ago now."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1655.1499999999999,"endTime":1660.58,"body":"Uh, you were there  it was,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1655.1499999999999,"endTime":1660.58,"body":"um, oh, I forget what training"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1660.58,"endTime":1662.83,"body":"course it was, but I totally."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1663.0049999999999,"endTime":1664.595,"body":"I'd either forgotten."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1664.955,"endTime":1666.995,"body":"Well, I had forgotten if I"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1664.955,"endTime":1666.995,"body":"was told, but I didn't know"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1666.995,"endTime":1668.855,"body":"that I was supposed to do"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1666.995,"endTime":1668.855,"body":"a presentation on something"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1669.2749999999999,"endTime":1671.2849999999999,"body":"and everybody was sitting in"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1669.2749999999999,"endTime":1671.2849999999999,"body":"the cafe beforehand to go."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1671.2849999999999,"endTime":1672.7849999999999,"body":"So what's your presentation"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1671.2849999999999,"endTime":1672.7849999999999,"body":"gonna be on today?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1672.7849999999999,"endTime":1673.115,"body":"Richard?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1673.445,"endTime":1675.485,"body":"I'm like what"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1673.445,"endTime":1675.485,"body":"presentation today?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1675.695,"endTime":1677.885,"body":"Yeah, we all gotta do a"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1675.695,"endTime":1677.885,"body":"presentation for 15 minutes."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1677.885,"endTime":1680.197,"body":"Do you remember"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1677.885,"endTime":1680.197,"body":"like, yes I do."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1680.197,"endTime":1680.1979999999999,"body":"Now."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1680.365,"endTime":1684.6109999999999,"body":"I'll see if I can blag this"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1680.365,"endTime":1684.6109999999999,"body":"and, and, and I tried to blag"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1684.6309999999999,"endTime":1686.521,"body":"it and was just ripped apart."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1687.001,"endTime":1688.6209999999999,"body":"by a couple of people"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1687.001,"endTime":1688.6209999999999,"body":"who were there."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1689.071,"endTime":1693.691,"body":"Well, it was one, one guy in"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1689.071,"endTime":1693.691,"body":"particular who just didn't"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1694.471,"endTime":1696.721,"body":"didn't yeah, it happens."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1697.081,"endTime":1699.331,"body":"and I was just taken back to"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1697.081,"endTime":1699.331,"body":"being this 10 year old, not"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1699.336,"endTime":1702.3909999999998,"body":"very who wasn't very good"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1699.336,"endTime":1702.3909999999998,"body":"at table tennis being told"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1702.6009999999999,"endTime":1703.3809999999999,"body":"you're not very good at this."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1703.3809999999999,"endTime":1704.9109999999998,"body":"Let me show you how"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1703.3809999999999,"endTime":1704.9109999999998,"body":"to do it properly."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1705.421,"endTime":1707.521,"body":"Straight back to being"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1705.421,"endTime":1707.521,"body":"that 10 year old again."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1707.8509999999999,"endTime":1709.8609999999999,"body":"And I on the train on"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1707.8509999999999,"endTime":1709.8609999999999,"body":"the way home, I was"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1709.8609999999999,"endTime":1711.3609999999999,"body":"just, oh, I'm done in."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1711.961,"endTime":1712.681,"body":"And you know what?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1713.311,"endTime":1714.751,"body":"I never finished that course."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1715.081,"endTime":1717.3909999999998,"body":"I never submitted any"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1715.081,"endTime":1717.3909999999998,"body":"of the essays for it."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1717.451,"endTime":1718.561,"body":"Any of the paperwork for it."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1723.1209999999999,"endTime":1724.261,"body":"and I I'll work on that."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1724.261,"endTime":1724.771,"body":"I do."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1725.1009999999999,"endTime":1726.831,"body":"I do remember."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1727.1899999999998,"endTime":1729.47,"body":"And I think I know who that"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1727.1899999999998,"endTime":1729.47,"body":"person was, but I won't."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1729.47,"endTime":1729.6799999999998,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1729.6799999999998,"endTime":1731.48,"body":"You know, ask you publicly."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1731.96,"endTime":1732.02,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1732.4099999999999,"endTime":1734.6899999999998,"body":"But I also think that"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1732.4099999999999,"endTime":1734.6899999999998,"body":"I didn't have enough"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1734.6899999999998,"endTime":1741.3049999999998,"body":"empathy for you because"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1734.6899999999998,"endTime":1741.3049999999998,"body":"I saw the bubbly Richard,"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1741.875,"endTime":1743.495,"body":"who was, oh, it's okay."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1744.155,"endTime":1745.145,"body":"And it was okay."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1745.145,"endTime":1746.975,"body":"You know, what you"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1745.145,"endTime":1746.975,"body":"did do was okay."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1746.975,"endTime":1750.1509999999998,"body":"I think that other person"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1746.975,"endTime":1750.1509999999998,"body":"who'd reacted to the, he"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1750.1509999999998,"endTime":1754.134,"body":"hasn't prepared and he's"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1750.1509999999998,"endTime":1754.134,"body":"still doing it, which would've"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1754.134,"endTime":1755.214,"body":"pressed a button for him."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1755.754,"endTime":1756.174,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1756.504,"endTime":1756.954,"body":"Because he'd"},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1756.954,"endTime":1758.8239999999998,"body":"have had to have prepared."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1758.874,"endTime":1760.014,"body":"Oh my God."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1760.014,"endTime":1762.024,"body":"All these years later,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1760.014,"endTime":1762.024,"body":"I'd never thought of."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1762.024,"endTime":1765.639,"body":"All the preparation that"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1762.024,"endTime":1765.639,"body":"he must have done, and"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1765.639,"endTime":1768.399,"body":"I just wandered up there"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1765.639,"endTime":1768.399,"body":"and with no prep at all."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1768.399,"endTime":1769.509,"body":"And he said, oh, I'm"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1768.399,"endTime":1769.509,"body":"just gonna talk about"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1769.509,"endTime":1771.369,"body":"my experiences of being"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1769.509,"endTime":1771.369,"body":"a younger therapist"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1771.369,"endTime":1772.239,"body":"when I first qualified."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1772.239,"endTime":1773.019,"body":"So off we go."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1773.619,"endTime":1775.1789999999999,"body":"Ah, that makes absolute sense."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1775.509,"endTime":1777.9389999999999,"body":"Why didn't I speak about this"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1775.509,"endTime":1777.9389999999999,"body":"with my therapist at the time?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1777.9689999999998,"endTime":1778.599,"body":"Thank you, Fiona."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1778.604,"endTime":1779.1989999999998,"body":"That's wonderful."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1780.2189999999998,"endTime":1781.1789999999999,"body":"I'll do that essay now."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1782.109,"endTime":1782.4389999999999,"body":"10,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1782.4389999999999,"endTime":1786.609,"body":"15 later, we should morph"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1782.4389999999999,"endTime":1786.609,"body":"these sessions into our own"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1786.6689999999999,"endTime":1788.049,"body":"mutual therapy sessions."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1789.2189999999998,"endTime":1792.4289999999999,"body":"Should my therapist on"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1789.2189999999998,"endTime":1792.4289999999999,"body":"across these boundaries."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1793.519,"endTime":1793.799,"body":"Excellent."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1793.989,"endTime":1796.149,"body":"Well, I I'll tell"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1793.989,"endTime":1796.149,"body":"you something Fiona"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1796.149,"endTime":1797.289,"body":"we've traveled today."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1797.289,"endTime":1798.489,"body":"Haven't we?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1798.489,"endTime":1799.279,"body":"Mm-hmm  we've"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1798.489,"endTime":1799.279,"body":"been on a journey."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1799.989,"endTime":1801.789,"body":"There's a lot that"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1799.989,"endTime":1801.789,"body":"we've brought up today."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1801.849,"endTime":1803.4689999999998,"body":"That's really, really helpful."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1803.629,"endTime":1806.589,"body":"And, and I hope everybody"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1803.629,"endTime":1806.589,"body":"listening get to get,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1806.589,"endTime":1809.1989999999998,"body":"gets their needs met"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1806.589,"endTime":1809.1989999999998,"body":"through today's episode in"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1809.1989999999998,"endTime":1810.4289999999999,"body":"some way, shape or form."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1811.2089999999998,"endTime":1813.789,"body":"So shall we love"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1811.2089999999998,"endTime":1813.789,"body":"them and leave them?"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1814.3139999999999,"endTime":1815.5439999999999,"body":"Because time is ticking on."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1815.874,"endTime":1820.194,"body":"I think we shall, and we will"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1815.874,"endTime":1820.194,"body":"be back next week because"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1820.3139999999999,"endTime":1821.394,"body":"we are not going anywhere."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1821.634,"endTime":1822.654,"body":"We're not rejecting you."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1822.714,"endTime":1824.994,"body":"We're accepting you"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1822.714,"endTime":1824.994,"body":"wholeheartedly sending"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1824.994,"endTime":1825.984,"body":"further questions."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1826.104,"endTime":1828.624,"body":"The more the merrier, really,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1826.104,"endTime":1828.624,"body":"because we can group some"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1828.629,"endTime":1831.5939999999998,"body":"of them together and some"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1828.629,"endTime":1831.5939999999998,"body":"single questions can fill an"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1831.5939999999998,"endTime":1833.004,"body":"entire episode quite easily."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1833.3339999999998,"endTime":1835.5839999999998,"body":"As you've noticed over"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1833.3339999999998,"endTime":1835.5839999999998,"body":"the last 20 episodes."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1836.2649999999999,"endTime":1838.965,"body":"next week we'll do some,"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1836.2649999999999,"endTime":1838.965,"body":"we'll do some mattering about"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1838.995,"endTime":1841.395,"body":"existentialism and so on."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1841.455,"endTime":1844.365,"body":"So I'll speak to some of"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1841.455,"endTime":1844.365,"body":"my patrons and, and see if"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1844.365,"endTime":1846.435,"body":"they've got any questions"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1844.365,"endTime":1846.435,"body":"about existentialism."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1846.825,"endTime":1849.735,"body":"And I know one of the"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1846.825,"endTime":1849.735,"body":"questions is gonna be what's"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1849.735,"endTime":1853.455,"body":"that, and that's what we'll"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1849.735,"endTime":1853.455,"body":"cover in next week's episode"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1853.485,"endTime":1856.695,"body":"of Therapy Natters in the"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1853.485,"endTime":1856.695,"body":"meantime, have a super"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1856.695,"endTime":1859.245,"body":"week be kind to yourself"},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1856.695,"endTime":1859.245,"body":"and be kind to each other."},{"speaker":"Richard","startTime":1859.395,"endTime":1860.085,"body":"See you soon."},{"speaker":"Fiona","startTime":1860.085,"endTime":1860.145,"body":"Bye."}]}