Aphasia Recovery Tips from Professional Athletes: Performance, Mindset, and Rehab

What do stroke survivors with aphasia and elite professional athletes have in common? More than you think. Angie Cauthorn and Dr. Seles apply five performance principles from professional sports ,training consistency, mental resilience, rest and recovery, nutrition, and coaching directly to aphasia rehabilitation after stroke. The result is a practical, evidence-informed framework for survivors who want to approach recovery with the same intention a professional athlete brings to their training. For PWA, care partners, and SLPs looking for new ways to motivate long-term rehabilitation engagement , this episode reframes what recovery can look like.

https://aphasiaadvocates.com/ for Brain Friends Merch

https://aphasia.org/event/ask-the-expert-february-2026/

https://www.cognitiverecoverylab.com/seles

https://aphasia.org/stories/announcing-the-davetrina-seles-gadson-health-equity-grant-program/

Our beloved colleague, Dr. Davetrina Seles Gadson, passed away January 11, 2025. Dr. Gadson was an extraordinary speech-language pathologist and neuroscience researcher who devoted her energy to studying health disparities in aphasia recovery. She was a fierce advocate for improving services for individuals with aphasia, particularly Black Americans. Her research transformed our understanding of these health disparities and shed light on how we can address them. We were privileged to have Dr. Gadson as a cherished member of our lab community for four years, first as a postdoctoral fellow and then as an Instructor of Rehabilitation Medicine. She was still a close collaborator and friend to many of us at the time of her passing. Dr. Gadson was an incredible person—compassionate, inspiring, and full of life. Her dedication to advancing equity in aphasia recovery and her profound impact on our community will never be forgotten. ...

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SPEAKER_03 0:00

Welcome to Brain Friends, where two neuronerds talk all things aphasia, language recovery, culture, and community. I am Dr. Datrina Celeste Gatson, a clinical speech language pathologist and neuroscientist.

SPEAKER_02 0:13

And I am Angie Cawthorn, stroke survivor and aphasia advocate. Welcome to our show.

SPEAKER_03 0:21

Welcome to Brain Friends. We want to thank all of our listeners for downloading the podcast. We appreciate everyone listening. So please tell a friend to tell a friend that we are here. And we are.

SPEAKER_02 1:00

Oh no, it's chilly, but it ain't snowing.

SPEAKER_03 1:03

Okay, that part.

SPEAKER_02 1:05

That part. I'm like, but it's snowing in California. I'm like, oh dear. But to answer your question, I am fantastic. What do we have on the docket today?

SPEAKER_03 1:18

So excited about today. Um, so a couple of years ago, I got a chance to attend the Forbes Healthcare Summit with my brother from another mother, Brandon Marshall. Oh my goodness, the football player. The football player. And one of the things that he said that he talks about a lot on his platform is five things that help you unlock your full potential. More so in the position when he's speaking to athletes, but I think these five things are applicable to aphasia and stroke recovery.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

Checking in with my sister, neuroscientist at Georgetown. We have five things for you. These are the five things you guys need to do to unlock your full potential. Number one, you need to train every day. You gotta work on fitness. Number two, it's fuel. What are we putting in our bodies? What type of supplements? How are we how are we approaching our mentals? The third thing is mental fitness. Mental fitness is key. We have to be able to train our mind and our brain. The fourth thing is recovery. You gotta be able to sometimes go on vacation, sometimes we just need a massage. And the last thing is try. What team do you have around you helping you navigate through the ebbs and flows of life?

SPEAKER_02 2:39

Definitely. Exactly. Exactly. All right. Well, we're gonna go and talk about those, but well, we're gonna do a quick uh icebreaker.

SPEAKER_03 2:51

Yes, yes, we'll do a quick icebreaker. So the icebreaker that we have is in the theme of athletes. Yes. Name a sport you tried and quickly realized it wasn't for you or that you were bad at it.

SPEAKER_02 3:14

I'm good at every even I feel like even the sports I didn't try, I'm good at. I ain't gonna hold no, I'm not, I'm not, I'm just I ain't gonna hold you. Um if it has a ball and it keeps score, I'm your girl. Put me on team, put me in, coach. Um yeah, maybe track. I was I'm not a long distance runner, but you want volleyball, you want softball, you want basketball. I played basketball with Don Staley all through my uh high school career, and uh she was just better. I was wow, and I was a baller. I could, you know what I mean? I I have a little bit of a rep, but nah, she was uh marketably better. So I I wear those L's with pride now that she's uh winning in South Carolina. So shout out to Dobbin High School's Dawn Staley, yes.

SPEAKER_03 4:14

So you guys went to high school together?

SPEAKER_02 4:17

No, I went to I went to Germantown, she went to Dobbins, and okay, uh, so I played against her, you know, through my whole high school career, and she beat us every year, and to this day, and I have coached 18-year-old boys, and I've been on many a court. She has the fastest first step I have ever played against. And I said what I said, wow, she was ridiculously better. So the fact that she's like an Olympic champion, I'm like, yeah, she beat me. It's fine. Like, yeah, I I I wear it at L with pride.

SPEAKER_03 5:00

Wow, that's what's up. Well, definitely shout out to Don Staley and and USC and Yeah, she is doing it, so I'm wishing her all the best.

SPEAKER_02 5:09

But as for something sport I ain't good at, I've I've I've never even played like tennis, tennis, but I'm like, give me a day. Okay. What about you, cheerleader? What you got?

SPEAKER_03 5:23

Um, okay, so I realize that any sport with when the ball comes at you quickly, okay, I'm not gonna do well with that.

SPEAKER_02 5:35

Okay, the way you just did your hand. Because unfortunately, the people can't see you, but the way you just your whole body language was like, oh, that ball might hit me.

SPEAKER_03 5:44

I can't Yeah, I realize that. So one summer my best friend uh got me to sign up for a softball team and honey. I lasted. Oh, see. I mean, I showed up, but at some point I transitioned to being the spirit ambassador for the team because shout out to everybody that plays softball. But the way honey, them balls becoming quick.

SPEAKER_02 6:14

Listen, they had me. Um, I was the kid that they would the gym teacher would find. So she was like, I need a catcher. And you have the most athletic person on the field is the catcher. I was the catcher. Just about I was at a if there's a ball involved and somebody's keeping score, put me in, coach.

SPEAKER_03 6:34

My favorite thing with softball is running from base to base, but I never really got on the base um to be able to run to the other one.

SPEAKER_02 6:50

Oh baby, but but you could cheer like nobody's been. Hey, I but I can sit here and think about good thoughts and hope y'all win. I'm gonna keep our energy up now. I'm gonna keep the spirit now.

SPEAKER_03 7:08

Yes, yes, yes, yes. So that that that's our icebreaker, and I'm and I know that if we ever did team sports to pick you.

SPEAKER_02 7:19

I I got you. Brain Friends will win the game. I'm a gracious loser because everybody can't win. I am quite gracious, but listen, I will drag you along. Throw me the ball.

SPEAKER_03 7:30

I love it. I love it. Well, when we think, go ahead, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 7:34

I was gonna say one of the things, um you know, with fitness, you know, one of the things that your uh brother said in that clip that we played is you know, about fitness and walking and doing something. And that um I find that to be so important in recover in my recovery. Um, I I made it a point to stay as active and I couldn't wait to get back to the gym and get back to my trainer. Shout out to uh Tenacity Fitness, my peeps. But my trainer made me go to a different trainer because he was like, Listen, I love you, Ange. I love you. And and can I tell you how sad he looked when I came back in there? Because obviously I was just a shadow myself. So shout out to Steve, shout out to Bill. But he was like, You gotta go to Bill because Bill knows more. So he got me with somebody that knew more that could kind of more so help me reach not only my fitness goals, but to also help me mentally through this transition now that I had had a stroke and what that meant and how my body would react differently to different things. So he made sure that um, you know, the balancing, he worked on a lot of those things with me and you know, encouraged me the walking and of course exercising, strength exercising, but more so the balance and things not only things he had me do to things he would not let me do. You know what I mean? Because you just can't go around uh trying to bench press when you don't have balance or even be on the treadmill. So we worked on a lot of stretching, a lot of medicine ball, a lot of the ropes were my friend. We did a lot of the ropes. I did the ropes today because I'm still there, you know. Five years later, he still looks out and I still can't count my reps. I still can't count my reps. So again, that's the least I could do is get that dude a shout out.

SPEAKER_03 9:33

Well, so you touched on one of the things, and so so there are the the five things fitness, fuel, mental fitness, recovery, and tribe. And so you kind of started us off with talking about the fitness piece. And I do have a question for you. When did you start back with your gym membership type of fitness? Did you get a doctor's approval? Was it after physical therapy? How did that how did that work for you? Because I definitely agree that fitness is important to recovery.

SPEAKER_02 10:16

I went back relatively soon. I don't know how soon, but I it was soon enough that, like I said, when I walked in, uh, I'll never forget how they looked at me and how sad they were. And that's so I was to the point where I did not look like myself. Um and um I wanna say maybe three months. Maybe it took about three months, but I was in therapy before that, and it was right around the time that physical therapy was gonna end. Maybe it did end, I don't remember.

SPEAKER_03 10:51

I just now how often do you do your fitness?

SPEAKER_02 11:00

Well, thank you for asking. Um I do uh two times a week and I am very proud of myself. I just um picked up uh Zumba. Yes, good Zumba. I love Zumba, and I wasn't able to do it um this entire time. Uh okay, okay. Get it. Drop it right. We see we gotta we gotta add that video. But yeah, I um I wasn't able to keep up and my my feet weren't doing what I needed it to do in Zumba. You don't want to be the one that's looking crazy. And uh I went, they had a free class in my city, and the time worked, and so I've been gone for the last couple of weeks, and I am not gonna hold you. First of all, the pounds are falling off your girl.

SPEAKER_03 11:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 11:54

So who's gonna be hot girl summer?

SPEAKER_03 11:57

All right, summer body. Yes. One of the things that I like that you said with fitness, which I would like to see more research in, is dance. I know um Tanya, shout out to Tanya, who's part of the Black Aphasia group. She does line dancing and teaches it. And I would she I remember she shared that the dancing and the line dancing has been part of her fitness and her recovery. So dance, I think, is awesome.

SPEAKER_02 12:31

Do you know she did it for the NaA Arts Program? National Aphasia Association had a program where people could do bring your gifts. And so she did the line dancing portion. And she, yo, she is she very she's serious about that. She is serious about it. So I I joined and uh checked it out for her, not for her, but because she had mentioned it and uh she killed it. She killed it.

SPEAKER_03 13:00

Yeah, dancing, dancing is so good, especially because it targets working memory, it uh gives you flexibility and it's fun. Endorphins. Endorphins, it don't let me get a two-step. Now, what's your favorite? What's your favorite line dance? Do you have a favorite line dance? I have to go with the electric slide. Okay, okay. You can't go wrong with the electric slide.

SPEAKER_02 13:29

Listen, and my family owned the nightclub when I was younger. It's electric. We had we used to play the electric slide at was it 3 a.m. At 3 a.m.

SPEAKER_03 13:41

Lady, okay. Let's number the next one.

SPEAKER_02 13:48

Another one was eat well. You gotta eat well, yeah. Your fuel what you put in your body is so important. And we all know that carbohydrates, white bread, white rice, those, and carbohydrates, processed foods, super sweets aren't good for you. We know that, and we also know that they're unavoidable. But you have to do things in moderation, and you have to also realize that what you've been through, uh, you're gonna need uh extra, you're gonna have to take extra care to get to the next step. You have to take care of your body, your body is your temple, you have to take care of it.

SPEAKER_03 14:35

And I think the other thing that's really important with fuel is understanding that food has its purpose, and the purpose of food is to give us that energy and make sure that we are consuming things that that fill us up and not make us sluggish. So when I first started research, I looked at different diets that could contribute to brain health. And, you know, we know that diets such as the Mediterranean diet has shown to be better for people with um dementia because of that the high fatty food, I mean the high fish intake, I think uh that's part of that diet, the greens, and so one of the things that I always say is look at foods that you know decrease inflammation. Look at foods that you know give you some um vitamin C and iron and all of those things.

SPEAKER_02 15:42

Do you have any suggestions on that? Like what brings down inflammation?

SPEAKER_03 15:47

Um, I do. So foods that help reduce inflammation are green leafy vegetables such as spinach, kale, collards, nuts, like almonds, walnuts, fatty fish, like salmon, uh, tuna, uh, fruits, like strawberries, blueberries, cherries, oranges. Okay. Okay. These help fight inflammation.

SPEAKER_02 16:20

Oh, okay. And so that would be good. Um and that helps your brain health as well. Oh yeah. Okay. Because I mean, when you say inflammation, I'm assuming you mean from just the body as a whole. But it would also help with any inflammation. So we should definitely within recovery, we need to be uh digging into that type of diet, um, at least making the an effort to throw a throw some um strawberries in with the cereal. Come on, guys, make the effort. Exactly. And you can't be at McDonald's every morning. And who doesn't love a bacon, egg, and cheese? We all do. Hey.

SPEAKER_03 17:00

But even with that, even with McDonald's, I start I learn um, because you know, low-key one one morning it was mad early and Chick-fil-A went open. So um But they're hours with McDonald's. I actually got the egg white McMuffin. And even something like that. Now, I I don't do the sausage or the pork, but even, you know, just the egg white McMuffin in itself. The McMuffin is a better type of bread, and then you have your egg white. And so I think that you can eat out, but just pay attention to the the fuel, like what you're putting in your body. Oh, so good. So good. I love that. And one more, one more thing that I think, just given the often cause of stroke being high blood pressure, even thinking about foods that decrease um hypertension, tomatoes, mushrooms, avocado, beans, and other potassium rich foods are gonna help you naturally lower your blood pressure as well. Now, look, honey, let the record show I ain't saying don't take your blood pressure medicine. I'm saying that I'm saying that they're that what we put in our body can help our body, um, because that's the fuel.

SPEAKER_02 18:35

And and do that with your blood pressure medicine, please. And thank you. Well what Dr. Celeste is saying is take your medicine this evening. Don't just eat some strawberries.

SPEAKER_03 18:47

Look, okay.

SPEAKER_02 18:48

Talk about what she said.

SPEAKER_03 18:50

No. And even if after listening to this episode, hopefully we're inspiring you to look at your fuel choices. You know, this is a great conversation to bring up with your physician and saying, like, hey, can I eat this? Especially if you may have some other dietary restrictions. But, you know, asking them what foods can you have to support as well. So uh bring that up to your physician.

SPEAKER_02 19:19

And I'm gonna just tag one of that and say, ask your physician for a referral to a nutritionalist. Oh, yeah. And ask them for a maybe they do the thing where they give you the cool blood tests and tell you the things that you shouldn't eat for your body specifically. And I've been meaning to do that uh for myself. I've been uh a little knck, I haven't been taking care of it like I should. And um, but yeah, that's um that's good stuff.

SPEAKER_03 19:57

The other thing, too, if we think about um mental fitness. So mental fitness is the other piece to unlock your full potential. And we've talked about this so much already, but practice doing something every day to help improve, improve yourself and um having a schedule, research, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, staying positive.

SPEAKER_02 20:25

And with the mental fitness, I think um I'm you know I'm a big proponent of the hand and eye coordination I got from uh playing Xbox. Um and that muscle memory kicked in, and even when I couldn't play, I could still play. And that helped me. I don't I'm I it's not like anybody's saying any different, but I don't care what nobody says. I know that that really did that muscle memory kicked in. Um especially in my first days of recovery when I really couldn't do a whole lot. Um that was it helped me um probably with neuroplasticity and all of that stuff, it really helped. And that mental fitness, you do what you can. You can't do a lot, a lot of times, but do what you can and do it uh in segments. You don't have to read four and a half an hour and read a page, yeah. Or maybe look at um, you know, uh a positive or something that's teaching you something on a documentary. Do something that's just not where this information is just kind of passing over you, exactly, but where you're engaging with the information that you're getting, and uh you know, word games on your phone, stuff like that make a difference and uh how you uh perceive things. That being said, I still can't read that well. And math is ridunculus. But luckily nobody's asking me what five times five is. But the funny thing is, I don't know that five times five is twenty five. I remember it's 20. And that's so weird. Um, I don't know what it is, but I in some cases can remember, and that's because they drilled it into us at a young age, but to actually do the math, I don't have the process to do, but I can remember, you know what I mean? So that's part of that mental fitness and staying positive and having a positive outlook. And also what helped me a lot was uh watching positive uh videos. I watched quite a bit of uh Eric Thomas, Les Brown, uh motivational stuff online, and uh, you know, I'm a champion.

SPEAKER_03 23:02

So right, right. The one thing that that you said that I feel like is really important, which is the value, and and you talk about your challenge with reading and your challenge with math, but I also see you really acknowledging your current achievements and the things that you do do really well. So just from a mental fitness piece, and hopefully I don't take us off too much. How do you reconcile that? Like, are you still actively desiring to be better with reading and math, or have you kind of got to a space to where you've accepted where you are and choose to practice and do more mental fitness activities with things that are your strength?

SPEAKER_02 24:03

Short answer, yes. Okay. Uh I do um I what I my my flex is I'm really good. I I practice what I'm really good at. And the things I'm not good at, um, unfortunately, were things that I were was previously good at. I was a finance manager for the largest car dealership in the country, and now I can't do basic math. That's a drop-off and something I will never seemingly get back at that level. But I don't need to be at that level if I'm not doing finance for the largest car dealership in the country. You know what I mean? So um, but I just left it. I the things I can't do, um, it's like the serenity prayer, you know. Uh the things I can't change, let me change the things that I can change, except the things that I can't, and the wisdom to know the difference. Yeah. I know I just messed that up, but y'all know I got a phasia. Don't come for me in the comments, all right? But but I think it is um I that's that's been my flex is to kind of be good at what I'm good at and leave the rest. And even with the blockages that I have with the words I may want to say, um there's a point where I'm like, all right, I won't say that word, I'll figure out another way to say it. And I'm constantly um fixing words that I want to say that I may not be able to say is good. I have to switch my rate of speech and what I'm saying to still convey the same thing, and so that's part of my mental workout, which is why a lot of times I'm exhausted by the end of the day. Because that's exhausting.

SPEAKER_03 26:07

Yeah, right. I think that leads us into the next, which is recovery. Um, and you know, when thinking about recovery, thinking about how you are relaxing, how you are sleeping, um, understanding, kind of giving yourself grace, which it seems like you you've done in adjusting to this new normal of okay, it's okay that I I'm not able to do the math at the level that I am because I'm not even in that position. And so how do you relax? How what what what else does your recovery, your recovery look like?

SPEAKER_02 26:49

My recovery, what helps me relax is chilling with my husband um again. Um playing video games and um watching uh documentaries and doing work for um Arch, which is the nonprofit that I uh co-founded, and working on trying to what helps me is that I've given myself another goal. I've given myself something else to do in reference to my advocacy, and that it's what keeps me busy. That is what I have chosen to focus on rather than sitting around playing video games all day. Uh maybe I can help some other people. And so that's what I've chosen to kind of um work on on in that way. But um, you know, I try to just wish not wish, um, get the bad out and bring the good in. And what I mean by that is also trying to keep my thoughts in a positive way, and that's something that you have to be perfec you have to do on purpose. You can't just hope it kind of works out. It is um absolutely necessary to do that.

SPEAKER_03 28:24

One of the things that you that I've heard you say a lot, which is make peace with slow. Would you also say that that's part of your recovery journey is um tapping into those those types of thoughts?

SPEAKER_02 28:41

Yeah, it's the acceptance of it and just kind of knowing what you are realizing that you have uh limitations and kind of working around them. You know, if you can't wear your shoes, then wear your flats. If you can't wear your flats, then wear your house shoes, but you're gonna go out today. You know what I mean? Like, and maybe that's a bad example, but it's about making that step down, is my point is do what you can and be okay with that.

SPEAKER_03 29:17

Did that answer your question at all? No, yeah, it answers it, it answers it um beautifully. Now, part of my recovery is um, honey, give me a massage or something. Can can I do a spa? Like, do you ever I mean, are you open to those types of things or were those things not not your your thing even pre-stroke?

SPEAKER_02 29:42

I tried. My husband got me. I had so many spa days left over. It was ridiculous. And I have such a hard time relaxing. My anxiety is doesn't allow that. Um, even with medication and all of that, and I'm just gonna just, you know, you know, I love the listeners, so you know, just being transparent, it wasn't something I was able to relax enough with. So I don't that never I wanted it to. I really I mean, who doesn't want to smile day? Um, but yeah, just the having the um ability to relax is something that has been um hijacked.

SPEAKER_03 30:28

Have you ever tried meditation?

SPEAKER_02 30:31

Not like I should, or how I want to. I'm I need to explore that.

SPEAKER_03 30:35

But um maybe we can do some mindfulness. Oh, that would be awesome. So the last thing, because it's almost time, is it's crazy. Our time always goes so quick, which is my favorite thing. Um, is your tribe.

SPEAKER_02 30:50

Wait a minute. It's your favorite thing that our time goes quick. That's what you just said.

SPEAKER_03 30:57

No, my favorite, my favorite final potential way to unlock your potential is your tribe, checking your tribe, your social circle. And I think that in this context, it looks like joining a support group or um joining Arch or uh the NAA has other activities to do, um, your social network. And so I think your tribe is really important. Support groups.

SPEAKER_02 31:31

And also, I think support groups uh don't get all the um the real play they should. I think finding people that are going through what you're going through, especially with aphasia, because it's so not uh it's not well known. Um you most of us didn't hear about it until the doctor told us that's what why we couldn't talk. Um, and even then we really, you know, it's like what? Okay, you know, it's you don't realize how bad it is until later, but that's not that was not the question. But I think again, going into um the support group of the of other survivors of aphasia of stroke, because we have uh very specific things that tie us together, and um, it's just important to get that again, get that tribe and and find your people. And um, as I say, you know, my fellow Ephasians, you know, those are my people. And once you find your people, it changes um the way you perceive everything because there'll be people in that room that are talk better, there's people that talk worse, and it just gives you perspective. Um, and it and it just helps to know that uh you're not alone.

SPEAKER_03 32:58

And and I would even say I've given this advice before to graduate students, especially if you're in communication sciences and disorders. Sometimes being the minority in these spaces can be very challenging. And so for me, when I was pursuing my PhD, my tribe I found outside of my department. And it was, you know, black and brown scholars in psychology, in math, in, you know, all these other areas. And it was really beneficial, not only from the community perspective, but also from a learning perspective, because you know, we would share ideas and I would, you know, help them, they would help me. And so I even welcome sometimes that your tribe may not be in your immediate space.

SPEAKER_02 34:03

Exactly. So that's kind of how you met Dr. Lauren from our mental health uh episode. Episode six, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:12

That's exactly how we met. And you know, I I really also credit my tribe in helping me not take no for an answer in the type of research that I wanted to do. And that was because a lot of the scholars in my tribe were doing research in areas that they really wanted to, and a lot of it was in black and brown communities, and it made me self-reflect of well, if you guys are able to do research in your area, like why can't I do research in my area? And you know, even with them giving me verbiage. So, yes, that's how I'm at. Um my goodness, Dr. Dr. Lauren.

SPEAKER_02 35:02

Oh, that's so dope. Shout out to Dr. Lauren, yo, and finding your tribe in college is so important, it is so key. But the shout out to the HBCUs, shout out to St. August. Listen, you know, I give like eight shout-outs.

SPEAKER_03 35:19

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:19

We're on the you know, so I only did like seven, so I'm gonna let y'all rock today with just seven shout outs.

SPEAKER_03 35:26

Yes. Well, before we go, Angie, uh, I don't know if your ears were burning because I um just got finished recording aphasia access. Shout out to Aphasia Access and they're with Ellen. And they really raved about Brain Friends, and so thank you to all of our new Brain Friend listeners that that came on over from Aphasia Access. We are glad that you are here. And it's episode, I think, 102. Uh, if you guys want to take a listen to me talking about my research and of course name dropping brain friends.

SPEAKER_02 36:16

As you should. I was um I think episode 75 for them. And uh and it was uh she said uh um she's uh Ellen is awesome. So shout out to her and Todd Van D overhead of AJ Antis.

unknown 36:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 36:35

Alrighty, well, it's always so good. Always a pleasure, that's it so good. And I feel like my potential is fully unlocked now.

SPEAKER_02 36:48

Shout out again to Big Brother Brandon Marshall doing his thing. We gotta have him on.

SPEAKER_03 36:55

We gotta have him on. Okay, yes. This is Brandon. We gotta get you on, Brain Friends.

SPEAKER_02 37:01

Come on, be a brain friend, Brandon.

SPEAKER_03 37:06

Alrighty. Thanks so much.

unknown 37:17

Gabby round.