Terry Tucker's Playbook for an Extraordinary Journey

Have you ever met someone whose sheer presence, both physical and metaphorical, can fill a room with inspiration? Terry Tucker, a former NCAA Division I basketball player turned SWAT hostage negotiator, embodies just that. Balancing on the towering height of six-foot-eight, Terry walks us through the valleys of his life, including his battle with a rare form of cancer, and how these experiences have fueled his mission to inspire others through Motivational Check LLC and his book "Sustainable Excellence." As you tune in, prepare to be awed by his resilience and the infectious optimism that he maintains in the face of adversity.

Throughout our conversation, Terry introduces us to the four pillars that have been the bedrock of his extraordinary journey. Each one, from mastering the mind to understanding the paradoxical gift of pain, is a chapter in his playbook for life. His philosophies aren't just theories; they're born from the trenches of real-world challenges and the relentless pursuit of excellence, despite the odds. Terry’s unwavering spirit not only captivates but also grounds us in the reality that our legacies are carved by the perseverance and hope we hold onto during our toughest battles.

The power of a support network cannot be overstated, and Terry is a testament to that. With his three Fs—faith, family, and friends—as his backbone, he shares heart-wrenching moments, like the decision to undergo chemotherapy and the warmth of human connection that carried him through. His insights into the role of character, the essence of teamwork learned through sports, and the profound lessons from his commitment to clinical trials offer a raw take on what it means to contribute to something larger than oneself. Through his stories, Terry's voice becomes a beacon for all who seek to nurture the eternal parts of themselves—their heart, mind, and soul. Join us as we share in the remarkable resilience of a man who finds an unwavering strength even in moments of vulnerability.

Motivational Check: https://www.motivationalcheck.com/
LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/terry-tucker-9b5605179/
Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/motivationalcheck
X (Twitter):  https://mobile.twitter.com/terrytucker201
Instagram:  https://www.instagram.com/sustainableexcellenceauthor/
Sustainable Excellence, Ten Principles to Leading Your Uncommon and Extraordinary Life - Amazon
Link: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08GLGVTVS

New Intro 2024

2024

Thoughtful premium products for all the immune challenged.
We make living with chronic illnesses easier! BeWell - Thoughtful products for those with an autoimmune disease. (wearebewell.com)

Transcript

Jen: 0:44

Hi, my Spoonie Sisters. Today, I had the pleasure of having guest Terry Tucker. Now, terry believes in the power of a good story to motivate, inspire and encourage others to lead their uncommon and extraordinary lives. He is the founder of Motivational Check LLC. He has been an NCAA Division I college basketball player, a swat hostage negotiator, and a cancer warrior. He's also the author of the book Sustainable Excellence: the 10 Principles to Leading your Uncommon and Extraordinary Life. Terry's mission is to constantly enrich and improve diverse, and uplifting content through inspiring, diverse without sacrificing relationships with family and friends. Hi, Terry. How, that's a mouthful. are you today?

Terry: 1:37

I'm great, Jenni, thanks for having me on. I'm really looking forward to talking with you.

Jen: 1:41

Oh, I am so excited, so let's dive in and start and a little bit about you. Want to give us a little rundown besides what I had to say?

Terry: 1:50

Yeah, so, born and raised on the South side of Chicago. You can't tell this from looking at me or from my voice, but I'm six foot eight inches tall and actually I know. I actually went to college on a basketball scholarship. When I graduated from college, I moved home to find a job. I'm really going to date myself now, but this was long before the internet was available to help people find employment. The good news was, as I found that first job in the corporate headquarters of Wendy's International, the hamburger chain, in their marketing department.

Terry: 2:22

The bad news was I lived with my parents for the next three and a half years as I helped my mother care for my father and my grandmother, who were both dying of different forms of cancer. As I mentioned, professionally started out at Wendy's, and then I moved to hospital administration. I actually went to work for the hospital that took care of my father and my grandmother, and then I made a major pivot in my life and became a police officer and, as you mentioned, I was a SWAT hostage negotiator as part of that. After that, I became a school security consultant, coach girls high school basketball, but for the last 12 years now I've been battling this rare form of cancer. And then, I guess, just finally. My wife and I have been married for 30 years. We have one child, a daughter, who's a graduate of the United States Air Force Academy and is an officer in the new branch of the military, the space force.

Jen: 3:14

Wow, Wow. You've lived such a big life. I mean I don't even know where to get started. I definitely am curious about being a hostage negotiator that how in the world do you handle that on a day-to-day basis?

Terry: 3:31

Yeah. So I guess for your audience who doesn't understand how SWAT is configured, on most police departments or sheriff's departments there are usually two groups. There's the tactical team, which are the men and women who have all the toys, as we used to call them the guns and the tear gas and the armored cars. And then there were the negotiators and we used to joke with the tactical team that if we did our job right, they didn't get to use any of their toys and things like that, being a negotiator.

Terry: 4:00

Most SWAT teams usually have the best officers with the best training and the best equipment, and I've always wanted to be part of the best in my life. So when there was an opening on the negotiating team, I put in for it. I had to do a physical fitness exam, I had to meet with the psychologist, I had to take psychological exams, I had to meet with the team and it was all or nothing with the team If one person said you know I don't really like Terry. I've worked with him before. He's hard to work with whatever you didn't get on the team. So fortunately, everybody gave me the thumbs up and that started a four and a half year career as a negotiator.

Jen: 4:38

Wow, that's exciting and honestly I mean, you're such a personable person. I could see how you could do any of these jobs. You could walk into anything and I could see you excel, definitely, Thank you. So we're going to talk a little bit about your chronic illness journey. Can you share a little bit about the form of melanoma that you have and how, maybe, that was discovered?

Terry: 5:03

Sure 2012,. I was a girls high school basketball coach in Texas. I had a callus break open on the bottom of my left foot, right below my third toe, and initially didn't think much of it, because as a coach you're on your feet a lot. But after a few weeks of it not healing I went to see a podiatrist a foot doctor friend of mine and he took an X-ray and he said Terry, I think you have a cyst in there and I can cut it out. And he did and he showed it to me. It's just a little gelatin sack with some white fat in it, no dark spots, no blood, nothing that gave either one of us concern. But fortunately or unfortunately he sent it off to pathology to have it looked at. And then two weeks later I received a call from him and, as I mentioned, he was a friend of mine and the more difficulty he was having explaining to me what was going on, the more frightened I was becoming until finally he just laid it out for me. He said, terry, I've been a doctor for 25 years and I have never seen the form of cancer that you have.

Terry: 6:05

You have an incredibly rare form of melanoma, which I think for most people think melanoma too much exposure to the sun affects the melon, the pigment in their skin. I have a rare form that has nothing to do with sun exposure. That appears on the bottom of the feet or the palms of the hands. And because it was so rare, he recommended I go to MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston to be treated. I did. They removed the tumor and all the lymph nodes in my groin and then they told me you're going to be dead in two years. We have nothing to help you. There's nothing we can do for you other than surgery. So I thought well, you gave me a death sentence. Maybe I can turn that death sentence into a life sentence. And that's what I've been trying to do for the last 12 years now.

Jen: 6:53

Well, the 12 years is a lot longer than two, so I think that person was definitely incorrect. I don't even know where they come up with these numbers sometimes because obviously I'm looking at you, you look like a great healthy guy and obviously on the bottom of your foot, no sun exposure there. So do they know much about this and how in the world you could get something like this on the bottom of your foot?

Terry: 7:20

They don't, and that sort of begs the question you get this rare form of cancer. Well, how did I get this? Especially, is there something genetic that you would pass on to your children, if you have children, and I had probably. About four years ago, I had all 88 genes that doctors either know of or suspect cause all forms of cancer, not just melanoma, but breast cancer, lung cancer, prostate cancer, everything and I have absolutely no mutations in any of my genes, which then begs the question why did I get this? And nobody has been able to answer that question. So I don't spend a lot of time worrying about or contemplating why I got it. I got it and I'm going to have to deal with it. I'm going to have to do the best I can with it.

Terry: 8:10

I mean, there have been many setbacks along the way. I mean, initially they put me on a drug called interferon. As my doctor used to say, we're going to kick the can down the road, it's not a treatment for your cancer. And so I took a weekly injection of interferon which gave me terrible flu-like symptoms for two to three days every week after those injections, and I took those injections for almost five years. So imagine having the flu every week for five years and it wasn't a cure. You know, it was just like well, we're trying to buy you some more time Eventually ended up in the intensive care unit because of the toxicity to the interferon, with a body temperature of 108 degrees, which is usually not compatible with being alive.

Terry: 8:58

Somehow I survived that, but I had to stop it and the cancer came back almost immediately in the exact same spot in my foot where it presented. That was 2017, 2018. Had my left foot amputated, worked its way up my leg, 2019, two more surgeries and then in 2020, an undiagnosed tumor, kind of in my ankle area, grew large enough that it broke my leg. It fractured my tibia and my only recourse during the pandemic was to have my leg amputated above the knee. And I've got tumors in my lungs which I am still being treated for. And I know this sounds really dark and ugly, and it certainly has been. But I'll tell you two things I've learned real quick. Number one I don't think you know yourself until you've been tested by some form of adversity in your life. And secondly and this is going to sound kind of weird I'm sure cancer has made me a better human being.

Jen: 10:47

I get exactly what you're saying. I really do. I think anyone living with any kind of chronic illness, whether it be cancer or an autoimmune condition I think for the most part most people I've spoken to we all feel that way and I see the beauty in that. Who doesn't want to be a better person and be more compassionate to other people? It's a wonderful thing.

Terry: 11:09

It really is. I mean, and I've had people ask me, you know, I mean, you were a college athlete, you were on the SWAT team, you were a very physical person, you did a lot of physical things in your life and now I have no leg and I'm in a wheelchair and how do you balance those? How do you deal with that in your mind? And my response has always been when you can't do what you were good at, you do what's important. And I think right now, as you mentioned, you know, when you have a chronic or a terminal illness, you figure out real quickly what's important in life and you spend your energy on that.

Jen: 11:46

Absolutely, and on top of that, you can also find other things that you're good at, and you wrote a book, and so I'm going to actually skip some of my other questions and ask you to tell us about this book.

Terry: 12:00

Yeah, the book is called Sustainable Excellence the Ten Principles to Leading your Uncommon and Extraordinary Life, and it was really a book born out of two conversations. I never wanted to write a book. It was never really anything. People were suggesting that I do and you know, there's that old joke that says when we talk to God, it's called prayer, when God talks to us, it's called schizophrenia. So God never told me to write a book or anything like that. But what people did were they were making suggestions you should write a book, you should write a book, you should write a book, and I was like no.

Terry: 12:31

I don't want to write a book, but the book was really born out of two conversations, as I said. One was with a former player that I had coached in high school, who had moved to the area in Colorado where my wife and I live with her fiance, and the four of us had dinner one night and I remember saying to her after dinner that I was excited that she was living close now and I could watch her find and live her purpose. And, jenny, she got real quiet for a while and then she kind of looked at me and she was like, well, well, coach, what do you think my purpose is? I said I have absolutely no idea what your purpose is, but that's what your life should be about Finding the reason you were put on the face of this earth and there is a reason and using your unique gifts and talents and living that reason. So that was one conversation.

Terry: 13:20

And then I had a young man reach out to me on social media from college and he asked me a question. He said what do you think are the most important things I should learn to not just be successful in my job or in business, but to be successful in life. And I didn't want to give him the get up early, work hard, help you know the sort of cliches that we all know. I wanted to see if I could go deeper with him. So I spent some time and eventually kind of had these 10 thoughts, these 10 ideas, these 10 principles, and so I sent them to him. And then I stepped back and I was like, well, I got a life story that fits underneath that principle, or I know somebody whose life emulates this principle. So, literally during the months I was healing after I had my leg amputated, I sat down at the computer every day and I built stories and they're real stories about real people underneath each of the principles, and that's how sustainable excellence came to be.

Jen: 14:12

Wow, that's amazing. Okay, so one thing that that we were discussing is the four truths to help others lead their uncommon and extraordinary life. So what are these four things? Can you run us through those a little bit?

Terry: 14:25

I can. The four truths are I actually have them here on a posted note in my office, so I see them multiple times during the day and they constantly get reinforced in my mind and they're just one sentence each. So number one is control your mind, or your mind is going to control you. Number two is embrace the pain and the difficulty that we all experience in life and use that pain and difficulty to make you a stronger and more resilient individual. The third one I look at sort of as a legacy type of truth, and it's this what you leave behind is what you weave in the hearts of other people. And then the last one I think is pretty self-explanatory as long as you don't quit, you can never be defeated. And I look at these four truths and I kind of call them the bedrock of my soul. I just think they're a good place to start to try to build a quality life around.

Jen: 15:25

How can you not be encouraged by that? I just I'm listening to you and how can you not be encouraged? So I'm trying to think of where I want to go with this. Like a rabbit hole, right, I know, I know I have a million questions, but so how did you implement these into your personal life, for yourself and what you're dealing with?

Terry: 15:49

Yeah, I mean, there's so much of this is really goes back. You know, people ask me is there one that's more important than the other? And initially I used to say no, they're all equally important. But the more I've read, the more I've thought about it, the more I've studied. I think the first one, about controlling your mind, or your mind is going to control you. I remember the. I read an article.

Terry: 16:11

The Cleveland Clinic said that we have 60 to 70,000 thoughts that pass through our mind every day, most of which we don't even pay attention to. 80% of those thoughts are negative and 95% of those thoughts are the same thoughts that we had the day before. So on any given day we have roughly 3,500 new thoughts, and our mind operates at a speed of about a thousand words a minute and generates enough energy to light a 25 watt light bulb. So the mind is an amazing, just an amazing organ, and the thing that I guess that I that I've come to understand about the brain is that and I'll give you a basketball analogy If I took a basketball and I went out under the court and I practice shooting free throws, there would be a certain area of my brain if we could look at it under an MRI, that would light up. If I thought about taking that basketball and going out onto the court and shooting those shots, that same area of my brain would light up. So whether you actually do it or whether you think about it, your brain doesn't know the difference. It's just like, okay, terry, shooting free throws, is he or is he thinking about shooting free throws? So what we say, how we talk to each other, the martial artist Bruce Lee used to used to tell people be incredibly careful how you talk to yourself, because your body doesn't know, your brain doesn't know whether you're actually doing it or whether you're thinking about it or whether you're talking to yourself about it.

Terry: 17:54

So don't go into these things and I know this is easy for me to say because I know your audience is also chronic people with chronic illnesses. I mean, there's no perfect day. There's no day that you know I'm tired, I'm beat up, I'm down. Yeah, I know we all are. But my God and I know I've talked a lot, but let me tell you one more story. This is a true story happened back in the 1950s. There was a professor at Johns Hopkins University who did an experiment with rats. Have you heard this before?

Jen: 18:26

It sounds familiar.

Terry: 18:28

Okay, so he did it. It was very simple experiment. He put rats in a tank of water that was over their head and he wanted to see how long they would tread water. And initially, rats treaded water for about 15 minutes and just as those rats were getting ready to sink and drown, he reached in, grabbed them, pulled them out, dried them off and let them rest for a while. And they took the exact same rats and put them back in that exact same tank of water. And the second time around, on average, those rats treaded water for 60 hours.

Terry: 19:03

Now think about that the first time, 15 minutes. It's not like you're gonna flunk a test, or your business is gonna go on or you're gonna die. Your life is gonna be over. And the second time, around 60 hours. Which taught me two things. Number one, the importance of hope in our lives. And if we know we're doing the right thing Maybe not today, maybe not this week, maybe not even this year, but at some point in time we'll get to where we want to be more than likely. And the second thing it taught me was just how much more our physical bodies can handle than we ever thought they could. We quit, we give up. We give in long before our physical bodies do, and that's because we haven't calloused or toughened our mind to deal with that body.

Jen: 19:45

I think that's such an excellent point. I mean, and it goes to show that, like, okay, so someone that has worked as hard as they have like you to be playing with amazing players playing basketball, and someone that tries once a week, there's gonna be a difference there.

Terry: 20:04

A huge difference? Yeah, there, absolutely is. I mean, there's an absolute correlation between the effort you put in and the results that you get out. And I guess I don't want your audience to think that you know I'm kind of Superman. You're not. You're looking at me right now. There's no SMI chest. I do not wear a cape and fly around with magical powers.

Terry: 20:21

Everybody has a breaking point. But I honestly believe that breaking point is so much further down the road, we give up so easily. And so then people ask well, how do you callister mind, how do you make your mind stronger? It's not hard, but since our brains are hardwired to avoid pain and discomfort and to seek pleasure, the brain is kind of working against us. And what I recommend and I do this every day, so I'm not asking people to do something I wouldn't do every day of your life do one thing that makes you nervous, that scares you, that makes you uncomfortable, that's potentially embarrassing. It doesn't have to be a big thing, but if you do those small things every day, when the big disasters in life hit us, and they hit all of us.

Terry: 21:06

We lose somebody who's close to us, we get let go from our job. We find out we have a chronic or a terminal illness. You'll be so much more resilient to deal with that pain than if you hadn't callister mind in the first place.

Jen: 21:19

I agree with you so much on that. So what are some of the things that you would recommend to others that you've done for yourself to make your mind stronger?

Terry: 21:31

I mean, I do things that a lot of people don't like, and I think the first thing, first thing in the morning, make your bed and make your bed. That's not a big deal and, like I said, these things it doesn't have. You don't have to like go out and crawl through 15 feet of snow or something like that. Make your bed. Oh, I don't wanna make my bed. But by making your bed you do one thing you don't wanna do. And the second thing is you get a win. First thing in the morning, first thing, I made my bed.

Terry: 22:02

I've got something positive going in my life. There are times when I don't wanna put on my prosthetic leg and try to learn to walk. There are times when I don't wanna try to exercise. All right, I'm gonna take a shower and I always do cold therapy after a shower. I hate it, I hate it, I hate it, I hate it, but I do it because it's one of those things that's uncomfortable.

Terry: 22:25

So you know, I mean, the other day I called the dentist. I hate going to the dentist. I guess I hate a lot of things, don't I? I hate going to the dentist, but I called the dentist and made my six month appointment. It's like, oh, that's no big deal. When you hate the dentist as much as I do, it's a big deal. So, like I say, those things you don't wanna do, oh, I'm laying on the couch, I'm binge watching Netflix. I should go to the gym. I don't wanna go to the gym. Get up and go to the gym, you know. I mean, you need to study for a test. I don't wanna study for that test. I'm having fun with my friend. Study for the test. Just find things in life that you don't wanna do and do them.

Jen: 23:00

It's pretty simple yes, because, quite honestly, for those that are parents, you know we tell our kids the same kind of things, so why would we not wanna tell ourselves that? Right, I feel like a hypocrite if I tell something to one of my children and I'm not doing the same thing, and so I strive to do those things that make me uncomfortable, that I don't like to do either, because I'm gonna be better for it. So I definitely agree with what you're saying.

Terry: 23:24

You are and that's you know. You're modeling what you want your kids to do. And that goes back to character. You know what kind of character do you want your children to have? And character is caught, it's not taught. You're not gonna read a book and say, oh, okay, I got a great character. Now You're gonna watch how people do things, watch how people handle things, and say, oh, I really like the way she handled that, whatever it is, or I didn't like the way he handled that. That was character.

Terry: 23:51

I remember I had a job interview one time and I spent an hour and a half with the senior vice president of marketing and we talked about everything in my life up till the time I graduated from college. And then the interview was over and I asked him. I said I gotta ask you. You didn't ask me one question about marketing or business or my philosophy. We just talked about these like first 20 years of my life. And he said well, I got plenty of people around me that'll tell me whether you're good at marketing or you'd fit in with the team and things like that. He said but I wanna hire people of good character and I believe character is developed in the first 20 years of our life. So that's why I asked you what was it like growing up with your parents and your brothers in high school and college and having knee surgery and basketball? Because that was gonna tell me whether you were a person of good character.

Jen: 24:41

That's a really good point. I don't think that's something I would have considered.

Terry: 24:45

Okay, it certainly wasn't anything I considered. It's certainly never an interview I've had like before or after. So what are you doing?

Jen: 24:52

Yeah, absolutely. I feel like I wanna go out and tell everybody that that's what they need to be doing. Yeah, Okay. So what does your support system look like?

Terry: 25:01

I have a wife and daughter. I have two brothers that are alive. My mother is will be 89 years old this year. My support system is what I call my three Fs faith, family and friends. I have a tremendously deep faith in God. I'll never forget when I had my leg abutated and I had fined on it tumors in my lungs. About six months later my oncologist showed me my CAT scan and I have no medical background, I don't know how to read the CAT scan, but you can kinda look at it and be like boy, that sure doesn't look like it belongs there, you know, and stuff. So I had these big tumors in my lungs. I had fluid all around the pleural spaces and I remember looking at my oncologist and saying I thought it was I a lot, and Jenny, I'll never forget this. He put his head down, he shook his head, no, and then he looked up to me and he said I don't know, because you shouldn't have been, which told me that God wasn't finished with me yet. You know when I die, where I die, how I die way above my pay grade. Don't spend a lot of time worrying about the dying. Spend more time worrying about the living. And then my family, my wife and daughter and I.

Terry: 26:05

After, again, I had the leg amputation, I had these tumors in my lungs. My doctor wanted to put me on chemotherapy and I looked at them and I said I was going to save my life. He's like probably not, but it might buy you some more time. And I said well, if the outcome is going to be the same, I'm not sure I want to go through all that ugliness, but I'll go home and talk to my family. And this is it's a funny story, but it really happened this way.

Terry: 26:29

So I go home and start telling my wife and daughter about what's going on and my daughters are all right, we need a family meeting. I'm like family meeting. There's three of us. It's not like we got a board here or something like that, you know. It's like so we sit around the kitchen table and individually talk about how we feel about me having chemotherapy and then, when we're done with that, my daughter again it's like all right, let's take a vote. How many people want dad to have chemotherapy? And my wife and daughter raised our hand and like wait a minute, am I getting outvoted for something that I don't want to do? And I remembered when I was in the police academy, our defensive tactics instructor used to have a spring of photograph of the people we loved the most to class and as we were learning techniques to defend ourselves, we were to look at that photograph because he reasoned you will fight harder for the people you love than you will fight for yourself.

Terry: 27:20

So I ended up taking chemotherapy, not because I wanted to, but because my wife and daughter wanted me to, and I love them more than I love myself. And in hindsight it was the right thing to do. It was the bridge that got me to the drug that I'm on now. And then, finally, friends. And the interesting thing and maybe you can peep on this as well there were people when I thought, when I got cancer, that I was like I'm 100% sure these people will stay with me, they'll be in the foxhole with me, so to speak. And they were like Terry, I can't deal with this, I can't. I sort of got it back on. And then there were people that I never expected to be there for me, that have never left my side in 12 years. So faith, family and friends are really my support system through this journey.

Jen: 28:09

And you know, it's true. It's true Exactly everything that you just said. And to go with the friends part too, it's the people that you least expect and they come out of the woodwork and they will fight for you. They will bring you meals, they'll offer to clean your house, they'll pick you up things, surprise you with things. It's a beautiful and amazing thing. But you cannot always count on those people that you think that you have a really good relationship with, because whatever they've been through in their lives, it might scare the heck out of them and they're going to go running. And I had the same experience and I was like I have RA. It's not going to kill me. I mean, you know the complications from it. Someday could. But to me, I had a friend tell me that she couldn't handle being friends with me and watch me die. And I was like what, what is wrong with you? Like that's not even going to happen, like yeah, so I know exactly what you're talking about.

Terry: 29:03

Yeah, it's. You know it's amazing to see the people when I, when I had my first surgery, when they took the tumor out of the bottom of my my foot, I did not have to spend the night in the hospital, I was sent home when I woke up and I remember I had a 95 year old friend and I had been home about 20 minutes. My cell phone rings and his name was Bud and he's like Terry's. But can I come over for a few minutes? I know you just had surgery, but I promise I just want to drop some stuff off. And within 20 minutes or so, bud was standing in our living room with a fully cooked chicken and a pan of cream cheese Danish that he had bought at Costco and he was like here, you got dinner for tonight and you got breakfast for the morning.

Terry: 29:46

You know I wrote about this in my in my book that you know there's so many people and I've done this and I'm not proud that I have so many people that you know they give you the line. Hey, if you need anything, let me know, and I think that's such a cop out. It's like you know what I'm going to go have surgery or even if it's something positive. I'm going to have a baby or something like that. I don't have time to sit around and figure out how you can help me.

Terry: 30:11

The same things that you need to do at your house you know, kids need to get picked up from school, the garbage needs to go out, the grass needs to be cut Are the same things I have to do at my house. So don't ask me what to do. Just do something. Even if you go to the store and buy me food and I don't like it, I'm not going to be like I hate this, thank you. I'll be like thank you. Thank you for what you did. Get involved in people's life. Don't sit on the sideline and try to convince yourself that you're actually playing in the game.

Jen: 30:37

Exactly. You know, and if you feel like you know enough of the people, that can also chime in and help start a food train. Make sure there's meals constantly coming in, because those are things that save people time. You know, especially after a surgery, you know your wife's probably tending to your needs and caring for you and picking up the medications and doing whatever she can to help you feel comfortable. So let's make life easier and boom, a meal is there and that's how it should be. And, as a good friend, I hope that everyone that listens to this podcast already knows that stuff. But if it's new to you, be a good friend, just show up and do the thing. Just show up. Okay, so how did the chemo? How did it go?

Terry: 31:23

It went. You know I mean I got the whole. You know you're going to lose your hair. I never lost my hair. So you're going to ask me why I have this bad haircut, aren't you? So it's not bad, but the chemo really was the bridge.

Terry: 31:41

I'm on a clinical trial drug now that is not available to the public, and it's interesting. The way this drug works is it does nothing to the cancer, but what it does is the way cancer proliferates in the body, is it secretes an enzyme, a protein, that hides itself from your immune system, and what this drug does is goes in and wipes out that protein, that enzyme, so that my own immune system, just like if you had a cold or a flu virus, could say hey, that doesn't belong here, we need to go attack it, your own immune system. And so for the past three and a little over three years I guess we're closing on three and a half years I still have the tumors in my lungs, but they are, as my doctor says, stable. And so every week I go to the hospital, or every three weeks I go to the hospital for a week, and I'm administered this drug and it gives me pretty bad side effects. I'm very nauseous. I have very violent of growing up incidences, I have a shake and all this kind of stuff. And I've been doing this for three years and my nurses are like, why do you keep doing this? And I'm like, well, one, it's working.

Terry: 32:51

And two, something I learned from team sports. I started playing basketball when I was nine, played all the way up until I was 21, when I graduated from college, and what team sports taught me and for me it was sports, I think it can be, whatever team we're on and we're all on teams is the importance of being part of something that's bigger than yourself. You realize on a team that if you don't do your job, I only do let yourself down, but you let your teammates down, your coaches down, your fans down, your parents down, et cetera. And if you think about it, the biggest team game that we all play is this game of life. So, while this clinical trial drug may not save my life, maybe it's gonna save the life of somebody five years from now, 10 years from now, based on the data that the doctors are gleaning from my blood tests and my scans. And to me, that's being part of something that's bigger than yourself.

Jen: 33:43

Definitely, and I look at it this way, the things that you're doing are hopefully keeping you around longer for your family and potentially helping someone in your family later in life or someone else that you're close to later in life, and so why not try to help out however you can and at the end of the day, I'm sure your wife and your daughter they want the best for you and they want you around in their lives as long as they possibly can have you.

Terry: 34:11

Yes, they do. One of the side effects of this is also I am hypersensitive to vaccines. So the COVID boosters have put me in the hospital for three and four days. And I remember the last time I got a booster I was in the emergency room and I remember the doctor came in. My vital signs were not great and he said I had to ask you if something happens, do you want us to try to revive you?

Terry: 34:38

And I was so mentally and physically depleted I literally looked at my wife and said you decide I could care less one way or the other. If I die, die, I'm good with that. If you want to keep me around. And she was like, no, we want to keep you around. But I mean and I'm sure your audience, depending on what they're dealing with, have had those times where you just don't care, you're just so beat up mentally and physically and I preach control your mind. At that point in time I didn't feel like I was in real control. I was just I don't care, I'm so sick of being sick. If I die, I'm good with that. If I keep going, well, that's gonna be up to somebody who's bigger than me.

Jen: 35:20

Absolutely, and you trust your family to help make that decision for you when you're not well enough to make that decision on your own Right. So what would be probably your biggest piece of advice that you would give to listeners? I mean, I know I've asked you many advice questions, but what would be the big, lasting one, I guess.

Terry: 35:43

I'll tell you a story that will answer that question. I had a nurse recently ask me that was taking care of me, and she said you know what was it like to lose your foot in 2018 and then to lose your leg in 2020? And I said it certainly has not been easy Trying to learn how to walk again. You know, when you're in your 60s and you're six foot eight, you know falling is not an option. You know you fall from this height, you get up. But what I told her was cancer can take all my physical faculties, but cancer can't touch my mind, it can't touch my heart and it can't touch my soul.

Terry: 36:18

And that's who I am, that's who you are, jenny, that's who everybody who's listening to us is, and we spend a tremendous amount of time working on this bond. You know we go to the gym, we get enough rest. You know we reduce stress, we eat right and I'm certainly not telling you not to do that. You absolutely should do it. But what I am suggesting is maybe this instead of working so hard on your body every day, spend a little time working on your heart, your mind and your soul. We know this body is gonna die. We know it's gonna decay, we know it's gonna go away, but your heart, your mind and your soul I believe those things are eternal. I believe they're gonna live on and I just don't think we spend enough time working on it. I absolutely agree.

Jen: 37:01

I absolutely agree with you. Your mind is a powerful thing and it stays behind with your family and all those that know you and love you and work hard on it. Well, thank you so much. Is there anything that we have not covered that we need to make sure we bring up?

Terry: 37:21

No, I think that's perfect, All right.

Jen: 37:24

well, it has been such a pleasure and I can't thank you enough for joining us. Well, Jenny, thanks for having me on.

Terry: 37:30

I really enjoyed talking with you.

Jen: 37:31

Yeah, all right listeners until next time, don't forget your spoon.