Sailing the Spoonie Seas: Jess Hay's Journey Through Chronic Illness and Finding Joy

As the sun sets on another day of managing the delicate balance of chronic illness, I sat down with Jess Hay, a resilient "Spoonie Sister" who graciously opened up about her life woven with challenges and triumphs. Our intimate conversation traverses Jess's early health struggles to her current dance with multiple conditions, including celiac disease and POTS. She candidly discusses the tapestry of treatments, both conventional and holistic, that color her daily life and offers an honest look into the complexities of navigating the Canadian healthcare system, where she often plays the role of her own advocate amidst a sea of specialists.

Navigating life with chronic illness is like sailing on unpredictable seas, and Jess shares her strategies for staying afloat, including her reliance on the unsung hero Gravol, and how she balances medications with the rhythms of her body's needs. She extends a hand to those on similar journeys, imparting wisdom on self-compassion and the delicate art of living within the bounds of one’s fluctuating health. Jess's reflections on her journey toward trusting the medical process, despite the jarring realities of nerve tests and other procedures, highlight the courage found in vulnerability and the strength in seeking help.

In the spirit of finding joy amidst the storms, we wrap up with an exploration of the evening rituals and the daily doses of happiness that Jess cherishes—a reminder that life's simple pleasures often hold the greatest comfort. Whether it's the warmth of a crochet needle in hand or the affectionate nuzzle from her service dog in training, Elda, Jess reminds us that support comes in many forms. Listeners will undoubtedly find solace in her story and perhaps recognize a piece of their own journey reflected in her words. Join us for this episode, not just for the resilience on display, but for the celebration of every spoonful of joy that makes the challenging days worth enduring.

https://www.instagram.com/jess_and_elda?igsh=aHRsZGV3a3h5bHE4

https://open.spotify.com/show/2jONwolC02aoGQOxJcTOc5?si=8BMizFi4Tq62E0vLW2jVdA

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Transcript

Jen: 0:43

Here's your hot Gracefully Jen, and I have the pleasure of bringing Jess Hay, and she's kind of a new Spoonie sister in my life, but I have such the pleasure of knowing her and you know who better to tell all about herself but Jess. So, hey, Jess, how are you today? I'm doing well. Thanks, how are you? I am doing well. Thank you so much for joining. I am so excited to share you with everyone. Oh, my goodness, thank you for having me. Yeah, it's such a pleasure. So why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and kind of how we connected and why I wanted to share about you a little bit?

Jess: 1:20

Yeah, yeah, for sure. So my name is Jess, like you said, and so I have I started on Instagram, and I now have my own podcast as well, called Patient POV, and so I actually had you on my podcast as well, and so that's how we were able to connect first, and then you were so kind to ask me to come onto your podcast here.

Jen: 1:42

So what is your background? With chronic illness?

Jess: 1:45

Yeah. So when I was three or four years old, I got sick and was in the hospital for about a month or so, and then followups and whatever. And we thought, okay, it is what it is, but we'll leave it in the past, let's move on. And then, when I was in grade seven, I got diagnosed with celiac and hypothyroid. And then we said, okay, we got it all figured out, everything is looking much better, we'll leave that in the past. And then, when I was in grade 11, I started experiencing some symptoms.

Jess: 2:13

But again, I was a high school student, always busy getting things done, and so I just figured I was just, you know, couldn't get up in the morning, I was just lazy. And so I have like papers of me writing like just get up in the morning, stop being lazy. And so then, by first year university, I went to my doctor and I was like, okay, something needs to change. I'm in pain, I'm feeling like I can't get up in the morning, what's going on? And so then, second year university, I ended up having to drop out of nursing school because my second year of nursing school, because I physically wouldn't have been able to do the clinical side of things.

Jess: 2:51

And then the long story short of all of this is, after about 10, over 10 specialists I think I've seen, I got diagnosed with POTS, which is postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome, and I also got diagnosed with a rare neurovascular disease called Arethromylo malygia, which is basically like the inappropriate constriction and dilation specifically in my feet and legs and it causes a lot of chronic pain. And then I also just recently got diagnosed with Raynodes, which is the flip side of it. So it's you're either too cold and have no blood circulation or you have too much blood circulation, which causes a lot of heat. And so, yeah, that's kind of the current journey and I'm still getting tested for a few more things as we speak, basically, but that's currently where it stands, okay.

Jen: 3:43

So I have a couple of questions for you, please. They're way off of what I had already given you before, but we knew you were going on the slide. So what does your treatment plan look like? Right?

Jess: 3:53

now, yeah, so I've tried a bunch of things. I'm currently on a mix of, let's say, western and Holistic Medicine. So Westernized Medicine I'm on quite a few medications that help with relaxing the muscles and another one that helps with chronic fatigue syndrome, because I find the fatigue side of things is the thing that causes the most depression and so we can sidebar the fatigue as much as possible. Then I'm a little bit happier and able to deal with the other symptoms. So that's kind of the Westernized side of things. And then the more Holistic side of things I'm also doing like exercise rehab, which over the last year has significantly improved my symptoms. So I'm working every single week with a physiotherapist who specializes in this kind of rehab and orthostatic tolerance training, and so between the two of them lots of salt as well. That's part of the care plan, but yeah, that's kind of the combos.

Jen: 4:54

Do you feel like your care team works really well together and communicates well with you?

Jess: 5:01

Yeah, so I have a mix of a care team, I would say so. I'm currently in Canada and we have I have about four specialists that are trying to help me as much as they can in their own individual way, and that sometimes makes it a little difficult, because I'll go at one appointment and they'll say, okay, I want to prescribe you this. And I'll say, okay, well, I have an appointment coming up. At my next appointment I'll bring it up and see what they were hoping to do, and then we can figure out what I want to start first. And then they'll go to that appointment and they'll be like oh well, like, we want to start you on this. I'll say, okay, well, this doctor wanted to start me on this.

Jess: 5:42

It feels very much like it's not a care team Because the doctors are working together. It's the. I'm taking all the information, and then I'm the one who has to keep relaying all this information back and forth and then hope that I'm relaying the correct information and then having to make the decision of, like, what symptom do I really want to try to decrease the most at this time, and so that's kind of the difficult part of it.

Jen: 6:09

That would be difficult and, from what I understand, in Canada you don't have like a chart system where you can communicate with them. Well, so over here we have I call it K-Chart, because where I used to live that's what they called it, but it's where we log in and I can talk to any of my doctors, any of my specialists, and they can even communicate with each other and they can even send prescriptions through it. I mean all the things I can talk to the nurses, and to my understanding, at least one person that I talk to you don't have something like that available.

Jess: 6:44

So yes and no. So we have some hospitals that are research-based hospitals, have something called my chart, and that is very similar to what you're saying, where you can communicate with the doctors. You can see your past appointment history and like the prescriptions you're on. However, you have to be at a teaching hospital with that doctor. You would only be communicating directly with that doctor if they've set it up as well that you can communicate with them, which isn't applicable for everyone, and then they don't communicate with each other that way, but they'll sometimes like I'll ask them to send over the notes, but it doesn't mean that they'll do it and it doesn't mean that they're sending any like additional notes with it. So that's kind of the difficult part of it is there's a lack of cohesive care team, like you're saying. I've heard for years that that's in the works, and I'm particularly in Ontario's. I've heard for years that that's in the works of like this would be great if this would happen, but it hasn't happened yet.

Jen: 7:43

Okay, well, I'm hoping it does, because, yeah, I guess where I live now they do call it my chart and it's fantastic. You know, my dermatologist can communicate with me and look at everything that gastro it looks says, and same with the rheumatologist. So it's really great because they can all see what each other are prescribing and it just works really well to better take care of the patient. And so I guess in my mind I'm like why don't we have this everywhere?

Jess: 8:09

Because I don't know, communication is key when dealing with all of this, for sure, for sure, especially when it's like a chronic illness, when it's not just like a one condition problem, like if it was just a dermatologist you needed to see, it would be like, okay, that's understandable that I don't have the flow and they can communicate with all the doctors, but when you're bringing in like I've seen at least 10 specialists, like it makes it very difficult to either remember everything, have everything documented.

Jen: 8:38

It's all on you to do the work and yeah, yeah, and to bring over your list of like okay, well, this doctor's prescribing this and this one's prescribing this, and so you wanna give me a new one. Is that gonna work well with this and this and this and what they're saying? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, okay. So my next direction I wanna go is your Spoonie Toolkit. So what are the top five things that you would have inside of yours?

Jess: 9:09

Yeah, so element, tea, or sorry, element, I do think it's called. It's a salt powder, that.

Jess: 9:16

I always have with me, no matter where I am. I have extra powders of it. I'm like I can always buy a water bottle, but I can't buy this, so I'll always have that with me. I also try to always have a water bottle with me would be my second one, whether it's just plain water or it actually has the element salt mixture in it. I always have that with me. Actually, it's right here, it's my big, my big. I think it's a liter and a half or something like that. And then I'd also say that I always have layers or like an extra sweater, because I have some temperature intolerance. And then I probably always have a gravel on me as well, just in case you'd hate to use it, but you have it just in case. And then another thing I always have with me is I like to call it my VIP parking pass, but it's like your accessible parking pass, so when I need it, I have it, but I'm also quite young, so in our household it's the VIP parking pass.

Jen: 10:15

And for those that are not in Canada, to explain what gravel is. It's draming, except for what you understand. It's even better.

Jess: 10:23

Yeah, it's like an anti-nausea medication and it also makes you very sleepy, so whenever I get nauseous, I can take it and get knocked out and be fine when I wake up.

Jen: 10:35

I may or may not have had a friend in Canada provide me with some gravel to try when I was on my methotrexate still, because it was so bad. I was so so nauseous every day and she's like, oh no, no, draming is not as good and she sent me the gravel and you know it's amazing. So sorry to you that can't get it. But if you know someone in Canada maybe they can help you out.

Jess: 11:00

Or like Amazon Prime it down or something like that. Yeah, no, it's honestly a saving grace.

Jen: 11:06

Absolutely, yep, great. So you've got a couple I mean several different conditions going on. What would you say is probably the easier one to manage and the more difficult one to manage? That's a good question.

Jess: 11:21

I would say currently, like the celiac and hypothyroid, I've been managing it for maybe 12 years now and so maybe a little less than that, but like it's just the easiest to manage. Because hypothyroid, I take my medication every day and it is what it is Blood work, it is what it is. And then celiac our household is now just gluten free and so it was an easy change now. Like it did suck when you were getting diagnosed, but it's fine now, so I think that would be the easiest one.

Jen: 11:54

Okay, and now this is going to be a special one too For each of these. What would you give, as I don't know, like inspiration, support type comments to anyone going through these conditions, like maybe they're new in the journey? What would you tell them?

Jess: 12:14

Yeah, I would say that don't push yourself on the hard days, as we are all learning as spoony sisters, for sure. But I think specifically if you're starting your journey, to not think that if you're having a good day you're completely fine. I found that was the hardest thing with me was like my good days I felt great and I was like I'm cured, I don't have any problems, it was all in my head. And then, of course, a bad day would come, and then the bad days would feel even worse, because then you're dealing with the like I'm making this all up or like depression because of it, and so it was like these huge highs and lows at the beginning, and so just accepting being gracious to your body on the hard days, but then being grateful for the good days and taking yourself, like taking yourself easy on those days as well, just so you don't overdo it. I kind of think between what I said there there's some combo of things.

Jen: 13:14

Yeah, absolutely, and I think that kind of advice could go for anything really. You know, we all deal with different symptoms but at the same time it can be very, very similar. Treatment plans can look a little bit. The same advice, definitely the same. Give yourself some grace. I think a lot of times, because of the good days, we are so much harder on ourselves on the bad days, like we have high expectations because yesterday I was doing so wonderful, so today, why am I not? And we have to be forgiving of ourselves on that, because our bodies are ever changing and sometimes they just truly feel like they hate us.

Jess: 13:53

No for sure. Yeah, but when you are starting to feel more strength back, like so. I personally am doing a lot of this exercise rehab, and so I'm trying to train for something, and I have this expectation that I should be able to do it, because I used to be able to do it before getting sick, and so now that I am dealing with a chronic illness, I can even still sometimes feel like I should be doing it. It's those should statements that really kick you in the butt, and so I am trying to switch to like could statements, I could go do this or I could do that, which also helps a little bit with the feeling more gracious towards yourself, being grateful for the good days, that whole combo.

Jen: 14:37

Absolutely, and forgive me. I'm looking at all my questions and a lot of them are geared towards people with one condition, and so I'm trying to tweak them as we go. But, looking back, what do you wish you had known?

Jess: 14:52

I wish. Well, are we talking as a whole chronic illness or, like I mean, I wish I would have known what they were. It would have been much easier. But are we talking like whole chronic illness or like specifically one of the conditions?

Jen: 15:04

If you want to go one by one through each of them, that would be great because you know you never know who's listening and how that may help them.

Jess: 15:12

Yeah for sure. So with POTS, I would say I wish I would have known to trust my care team on that one. I did not think I had POTS, I thought I had muscle pain and that was my only symptom that I was caring about. It was actually my doctor who said like, oh you should, we should get you tested for POTS, like it's an easy test. And I went I really don't think so, but sure I'll do whatever you want me to do at this point. So I would have said I just I think I should have just trusted the doctor a little sooner because I would have got that test a little sooner. So that's for that one.

Jess: 15:50

For the EM or like that Arethromylo-Milai-Jo one, which is the rare one, I would say that I wish I would have known how painful the tests are, but they are necessary. I went into a lot of those tests. Specifically when you're testing like nerves, like peripheral nerves, those tests can be quite painful but necessary, and so I came in a little naive to that so as not sugarcoated on that one. That's probably what I wish I would have known for that in particular.

Jen: 16:27

Yeah, oh my gosh, and I think there's something that we all wish we would have known at the beginning, so I'm really glad that you brought those up. So, staying on the positive side, how do you maintain a positive outlook despite the challenges you face?

Jess: 16:45

Yeah, and I think positivity kind of goes along with who I have with me to kind of lift me up, and so I would say that I Stay positive by surrounding myself with people who support me and understand what I'm going through and who are okay when I have to cancel plans and are always checking in on me, and I really appreciate that.

Jess: 17:15

I think I also stay positive by learning to accept that I am walking a path where I don't know what's coming next, and it's really difficult to plan for the future. But by accepting, by taking it day by day rather than trying to look so far in the future, I don't get so sad about the future, and so that was one thing that was hard as well. I wish I would have known that I should accept, or I should start appreciating the day by day rather than trying to look so far ahead in my life, because that's what I did for so much of my life. I had the 25-year plan down pat and then everything kind of got flipped upside down, and so accepting that I don't know what's happening in front of me actually brings more joy in your day to day life because you're not so focused on the future. So that was kind of started one thing but went the other way.

Jen: 18:09

I love it. I love it. I feel like you go above and beyond answering the questions and I love it. I'm here for it, thank you. Okay, so inspiration is my next one. Who, or what, lifts you up and lifts your spirits on all those difficult days?

Jess: 18:25

Yeah, so first and foremost I have a service dog in training and so she brings lots of joy sitting right beside me as we're talking here, so she gives me lots of joy in the day and then also helps me get up and get moving, and when you're caring for somebody else, you kind of care for yourself a little bit better as well. And then I also have a brother who also lives at home, as we're both in university still, and so he always is very good to give me space when I'm having a really bad day, but also is always able to make me laugh and smile, and so we have a good relationship that way, and so between the two of them they're great.

Jen: 19:04

That's fantastic. What is your service dog's name?

Jess: 19:07

Elda. So in my actual Instagram account it's Jess, underscore and underscore Elda, and Elda is my service dog in training.

Jen: 19:16

Oh, I love it. That is such a cute name.

Jess: 19:19

Oh my gosh, it's Gaelic, so I'm Scottish, so it's Gaelic for warrior, and so when I got her, I was in a really rough time, and so I wanted something that was strong and she was going to give me strength, and that's where the name came from, actually, I love it.

Jen: 19:35

Yeah, great idea. Okay, resources is the next one. Can you recommend whether it be articles or even Instagram account? Is there three that you would recommend?

Jess: 19:48

Yeah, so for EM, because it is quite rare the what's that called? The National Organization of Rare Diseases, I think it is, nor Nord or something. Yep, yeah, they have. They have a full section on EM and you can get a lot of information from there. So that's where I got a lot of my information for EM. On that, the Instagram side of things, that's where I found a lot of information about how to care specifically for the pot side of things, and there's so many great accounts that I could recommend. But I mean, you, of course, are amazing. I also found the Gemini Advocate. She posts so much and I absolutely love her, and then there's so many. There's also like the chronically fulfilled life. She also has another podcast which I was featured on as well or like be underscore positive. She posts quite a bit about pots as well, but there's so, so many and I've created actually like good friendships with some of these people just through Instagram, which is so cool.

Jen: 20:53

I can't echo that enough. I think you know the more that you dive in and you genuinely get to know people over time. It's shocking how many friends we actually build that are all over the world.

Jess: 21:05

It's amazing, yeah, exactly, and you feel less alone because you're saying you like, you open your Instagram and, rather than seeing like these workout girls in the gym getting it done, you're like seeing people who you can actually relate to and you go, oh, yeah, like I should try that, or like, oh, that's how I feel and like it is. It is a lot of help, for sure.

Jen: 21:24

Absolutely, and people are sharing the good, the bad, the ugly. It's wonderful because you know, even even as someone like you or myself, we need people encouraging us as well. You know, we don't just always have rainbows and butterflies every day.

Jess: 22:30

No, yeah, for sure. It's always nice to see that we're not alone.

Jen: 22:33

Yeah 100% All right. So I asked you about advice, but is there any last bit of advice that you would give to a fellow Sweeney sister that we didn't talk about earlier?

Jess: 22:45

Yeah, I can't remember if I actually said this or not, but like just or I might have, but I'll just echo it again is just like just don't push yourself too hard on the good days, even if you want to, but it can cause more bad days, but just be grateful for them and take them as they come. Take a day, every day by day.

Jen: 23:06

Absolutely All right. So where is the best place for people to find and follow you?

Jess: 23:12

Yeah, so Instagram you can follow me, Jess, underscore and underscore Elda, which is ELDA. And then I also have my own podcast as well, which is patient POV, which you can listen to on Apple podcast, Spotify and YouTube.

Jen: 23:28

And why don't you tell us more about your podcast?

Jess: 23:31

Yeah, for sure. So patient POV exactly how it sounds, patient point of view and so I interview fellow patients and we talk about their very similar here, as we talk about their story and their resources and how they are coping now and how they're moving past or not moving past, but working with their chronic illness rather than against it. I've also started speaking to more healthcare professionals as well about how to create more patient centered care and what things patients should be looking out for in terms of how to create like a better healthcare team. So, yeah, that's kind of the platform.

Jen: 24:17

I love it. And how long have you been doing this for?

Jess: 24:20

Yeah, so I only started recently, I think I started my first episode was posted in September of 2023. And so I've been trying as much as possible to do an episode a week, and so it gets posted on Sundays, typically in the afternoon, potentially the evening depending on how the day is going, but, yeah, by Monday morning you can listen to it.

Jen: 24:42

Okay and roughly. How many episodes do you have out?

Jess: 24:47

I think I just posted episode 16. But I also have been recording over the last few, like quite a few over the last few weeks. So I have, up to end of June already prerecorded. So there'll be content to come for the next few months for sure.

Jen: 25:07

Absolutely, and I challenge people that have been on this podcast too, and I might even reach out to some on my own. But get in touch with Jess. I know she would love to have you on. Yeah for sure. I'm sure you guys could have so much fun.

Jess: 25:21

Yeah, yeah, no, if anybody's interested, please give me a DM.

Jen: 25:26

Absolutely Okay. So one more question how do I even phrase this one? Okay, I don't want you to have to feel like I'm asking you to pick favorites, but of people that you've had on the podcast, what are ones that have really stuck with you and a huge impact?

Jess: 25:47

Oh goodness, I've had so many good ones.

Jen: 25:52

I know it's a hard question.

Jess: 25:53

I was nervous to ask you. Well, okay, so I just recorded which nobody's heard yet. I just recorded one with a nutritionist and he had some really good information to share about ways to naturally help peel you through food and through. He gives like the science of things, like we talked about the gut biome and all those good things. In terms of episodes I've already posted my goodness, there's been so many.

Jess: 26:23

I don't know if I can actually choose. There's been a lot of good ones and they all have their own little side of things I'm even just trying to think of.

Jen: 26:33

Feel free to name several highlights that pop into your head.

Jess: 26:38

Okay, one of the first episodes I did was with B underscore positive and she had some really great pots related recommendations. Then I also spoke to the Gemini advocate. I spoke to her as well which is amazing, lexi. Then I've also spoken to the chronic, the dot, chronic dot wanderer, and she had some really great insight as well. Or have dot, endo dot will dot travel but those two were both speaking a lot about like endometriosis in particular and had some really great recommendations. But I mean, everybody who's come on my podcast have been absolutely amazing, and even the people who are like we're a little bit more anxious. We just have a conversation and it's very fluid, like like you and I have here today.

Jen: 27:31

Yeah, and I think that's the wonderful thing about podcasts is it doesn't have to be a professional and it can be anyone. And I don't know about you, but that's kind of how I got into it. I was a guest on someone's podcast and I loved her and then, when I found out no-transcript going to not have a podcast anymore, there was this space that really needed to be filled and I always joked around about having one, but that's what encouraged me to finally do it. And you know your voice matters. Your voice needs to be heard. There's someone out there that needs to hear from you.

Jess: 28:01

No for sure and that's exactly what I said as well is that A it was completely outside my comfort zone and so I was trying to do things. That scared me because I felt like I had been living in this like sheltered little bubble for quite a few years now. And so I said something that makes me quite nervous to do. So I'll do it because it's safe to do. And then I figured in the chronic illness community space. If there was ever a time where I wouldn't be able to post an episode one week because I was having a flare, or I was having to reschedule something because I was having a flare, I wasn't as nervous that people wouldn't be understanding, because we're all going through that kind of similar experience. So that kind of gave me the encouragement to do it as well.

Jen: 28:48

Yeah definitely, and you're how you're making a lasting impact. So I'm so glad that we came across each other and I'm so thankful to have you on here and, quite honestly, what I want to also tell our Spoonie sisters out there is, if there's a topic that you haven't heard from myself or from Jess, reach out to us. We want to hear from you. We'd love to share your story, we'd love to share more topics. 100% get ahold of us.

Jess: 29:14

For sure, yeah, and I was literally just about to post this on my Instagram was if there was any conditions in particular that you were looking to hear about. Like, give me a DM and I'd love to try to find somebody who we can chat with. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and I'm sure the same goes with you as well.

Jen: 29:32

Yeah, send over what you want to hear about, send over your recommendations. If you know someone, great, we want to share everybody. That's really what it is, yeah.

Jess: 29:40

We're here to support each other For sure there's room for everyone.

Jen: 29:45

No, for sure. Yeah, all right. Is there any last bit of information that we haven't covered that you feel like we absolutely need to share?

Jess: 29:54

I think one more little tipper encouragement I encourage everyone to do is try to find something that you enjoy to do and that you can look forward to in every day, so whether that is finding a hobby. So I've been crocheting a lot and that's something I look forward to. At the end of the day I get to sit in bed and crochet and I look forward to that. I know some other people who have like a skincare routine, who they love doing their creams routine in the evening, or like a tea and a cookie, you look forward to something or in the morning, look forward to something to get you out of bed in the morning. So I would say that that would be my last little bit of encouragement, or something you should try to figure out to do yes because it keeps you going.

Jess: 30:41

You need that. Yeah for sure, even if it's just to get you out of bed in the morning, something you look forward to doing.

Jen: 30:47

Yeah, yes, okay, so what are? What kind of things do you like to crochet?

Jess: 30:52

I currently have been getting into sweaters. I have no pattern, but I just did a cardigan. I'll have to post it on my Instagram as well, but I just did a cardigan with like granny squares and then I just did. I can actually I don't know if you're going to show the video of this I'll show you at least. I just finished the sweater. Oh, I love it. Thank you. So that was kind of a fun experiment. I've never made a sweater before and I was like you know what? I watched a 30 second video. I'm sure I could do that.

Jen: 31:25

So, crochet, I challenge you to start sharing that in your stories, because I bet there's somebody that wants to see it, or maybe you're going to encourage them to try to.

Jess: 31:35

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, no, and I'm going to try to get into more things. I also made like a top one time it was purple or something like that. And then I also did the like animal phase of like. I made a hippo, but his head is now falling off, so I got to figure out how to put it back on.

Jen: 31:49

I love it. I've only done scarves and hats. You know I'm pretty basic. I guess I made blankets for my dolls back in the day.

Jess: 31:57

Yeah, no, but that's fair. Good for you for getting it done Like that's awesome.

Jen: 32:01

My hands don't always cooperate anymore. It depends on my pain level. Now I'm really into painting, but crocheting is a lot of fun.

Jess: 32:09

That is. Yeah, I used to paint, but I found I have a little bit of a tremor when I do finer things, so I think I'd have to do bigger pictures, but yeah.

Jen: 32:19

I've had. Water color seems to be very forgiving, okay. So if you want to try water color, if you have it I. That's my new favorite thing, it's so.

Jess: 32:30

I'll have to do that for sure, and I will definitely be sure to start sharing. I also made like a blanket. I'll have to. I'll have to. You know what? After this, I will start posting more of the crocheting things that I do.

Jen: 32:43

Yeah, absolutely, Because people want to. They want to hear it all. They want to hear about the fun things we do or things that bring us joy. You know it's yeah.

Jess: 32:53

No for sure. Yeah, I always I. One thing I really do like to do is sit in bed, crochet and have a show going, and so that's my like not the best nighttime routine, but it is my current nighttime routine I love it.

Jen: 33:06

You're going to have to share it with us and show us what you're doing. Okay, I will, all right. Well, my Sweeney sisters, what a joy. Go check out Jess, go check out her podcast and until next time, don't forget your spoon.