The Art of Slow Nomad Living

How do you pursue your dreams when your body seems to have other plans? For slow travel nomad and empowerment coach Caitlin, the answer lies in adaptation rather than abandonment. With a background in environmental engineering and a life shaped by fibromyalgia and complex mental health challenges, she's crafted a unique approach to entrepreneurship that prioritizes well-being alongside achievement.

"I got very, very sick because I was trying to keep up with everybody else," Caitlin reflects, describing her experience in business accelerator programs. This pivotal moment taught her that entrepreneurship with chronic illness requires a different framework—one that might actually be healthier for everyone. "Having a chronic illness actually means that you are respecting your limits a little earlier than maybe somebody who's doing that for 20 years and getting really sick."

The conversation explores nervous system regulation as a powerful tool for managing chronic pain. Caitlin explains how understanding her body's signals transformed her relationship with pain: "When I was able to look at pain as my body saying slow down or I need something... that reframe honestly even reduced the time that my flares would last." This perspective shift—viewing symptoms as protective messages rather than evidence of a failing body—offers profound healing potential.

Perhaps most valuable is Caitlin's wisdom on boundary-setting. As a self-described sensitive introvert, she's learned to stop over-explaining her limitations. "A boundary is what you are going to do for yourself to keep yourself safe," she explains, "recognizing that energy is finite and if I'm setting a boundary, it's the best thing not just for me but for my work, for my relationships."

Whether you're managing a chronic condition, feeling burnout from hustle culture, or simply seeking more intentional ways of living, this conversation offers practical wisdom for honoring your body's needs while still pursuing a life of purpose and adventure. Listen and discover how limitations, when embraced with compassion, can become doorways to unexpected possibilities.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introducing Caitlin: Nomad & Coach
• 9:02 Environmental Engineering Background
• 14:38 The Slow Nomad Lifestyle
• 24:40 Chronic Illness in Accelerator Programs
• 39:16 Building Support Networks While Traveling
• 46:26 Nervous System Regulation & Energy Management
• 58:56 Navigating Mental Health & Medication
• 1:12:56 Self-Advocacy & Living Authentically

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:08

Welcome back to my Spoonie Sisters podcast. Today we have a guest who embodies resilience and adaptability in the face of chronic illness. As a slow travel nomad and former co-founder of a startup in Colombia, she has navigated the complex intersection of entrepreneurship, self-care and chronic illness management while living life on the move. She brings with her a wealth of insights on topics ranging from energy management and gentle goal setting to redefining purpose and self-advocacy in healthcare. Welcome, caitlin. Today we also have Anne B Byers with us. Hello, ladies.

Speaker 2: 0:46

Hello, thanks for having me, hello.

Speaker 1: 0:48

Caitlin, do you mind telling us about yourself?

Speaker 2: 0:51

Sure, yes, I'm a slow travel nomad. I kind of travel to different places and stay for a little while. I'm a life and empowerment coach. I mostly work with folks who live with chronic illness or neurodiversity. Previously, my background is actually in environmental engineering. I've worked mostly in waste management and recycling, which is a very trusted interception between like sustainability and like environmental health, so like the health of the environment.

Speaker 3: 1:14

That's, I guess, me in a nutshell, the first time we were scheduled to talk, I had internet problems and my internet didn't want to internet. Now I get to talk to you and so I'm excited. So environmental engineering is that what you said? Yes, okay, can we talk a little bit about that first? What is that? Even? What is environmental engineering for those people who don't know?

Speaker 2: 1:37

It's using engineering principles like technical engineering, but for solving environmental issues or also to mitigate environmental issues. So environmental engineers can work in a range of different industries oil and gas and mining to help with companies to reduce environmental problems or anything that's environment related. It's using more technical skills towards that. I used it towards waste management. I'm really into waste diversion. I started out in recycling and working in like circular economy, trying to reduce waste. Have you?

Speaker 3: 2:04

always been into saving the world waste reduction at a time, or is that something that you grew into and you're like, hey, I think I want to do this for a career.

Speaker 2: 2:13

I just want to do work that's aligned with my values. I think that, particularly living with chronic illness and as I got more illnesses I just got more reinforced Anything I do, I want it to feel really good. I want to feel like I'm contributing and I'm collaborating with others and we're working towards solutions that make the world maybe even a little bit better. There's some big problems that we can't necessarily solve overnight, but then we're working towards making some changes.

Speaker 3: 2:40

So you're a slow nomad. What does that even mean? So we know that you travel, and what is the nomad life? Generically just the overview. What does that mean? What got you into it?

Speaker 2: 2:50

I had immigrated to Colombia like what seven years ago, and I was living there and had my business. I went back to Canada during the pandemic. That's where I'm from. I was quite sick for a while and so I told myself, when I get better, I really want to travel. And you know, nothing's guaranteed in life. Some people wait till they retire to travel, but that's not guaranteed. I really wanted to have an opportunity to travel a little bit guaranteed. I really wanted to have an opportunity to travel a little bit. I say slow because I stay in places for months at a time, just because it is very exhausting to travel in general. It is exhausting to travel if you have an illness. So, yeah, it's just in places for a few months at a time. I also just try to do so in a way that I'm connecting and learning local culture, that I'm trying to reduce my environmental impact when I travel. So it's just traveling in a way that feels a little more aligned to my values. So do you speak?

Speaker 3: 3:35

fluently different languages. Do you go knowing the language or do you learn the language while you're there?

Speaker 2: 3:42

I mostly stay in Latin America because I love it in Latin America and I speak about intermediate Spanish, so I'm not fluent yet. Working on it, I just couldn't go to different countries and language is not something I pick up easily. I don't know, do you both speak other languages? Very minimally.

Speaker 3: 3:57

Not very fluently anymore. Okay, what did you speak? So I did speak relatively fluent Spanish.

Speaker 1: 4:04

Okay.

Speaker 3: 4:05

And I could get my point across in German and I speak a little bit of Korean and it's because I've been stationed in those places. But the Spanish is, you know, just family background. But yeah, when you don't use it often you really do lose it. I can understand it, but it's getting my mind to convert it now. It's like what am I trying to say? And now I jumble multiple languages into one sentence because I know a little bit of a lot of languages. So, yeah, this is such a cool conversation. I'm so excited. What are some unfiltered lessons you've learned about resilience and self-advocacy as someone with a chronic illness in the entrepreneurial space as a slow nomad? That was a lot of stuff. I just asked.

Speaker 1: 4:51

That was a lot of words.

Speaker 2: 4:53

I had to. I had a startup about six years ago and I wasn't necessarily a nomad then because that would have been a lot. But I will say that entrepreneurship and chronic illness is a lot of lessons there, as you both know. Doing business and having chronic illness, I think I just realized I burnt myself out really badly. I got very, very sick because I was trying to keep up with everybody else and being in accelerator programs and seeing other founders pollinators or do things that I physically could not do. I got really down myself for a while that I'm not showing up the way that an entrepreneur should show up. It took me to get very unwell before I realized that entrepreneurship is going to look very different. If you have chronic illness. That's okay and actually the culture isn't sustainable for anybody. Having a chronic illness actually means that you are respecting your limits a little earlier than maybe doing that for 20 years and getting really sick.

Speaker 3: 5:38

So you, you said something that made my ear perk up and it was about the accelerator program. So I struggled. There too, I would be in the accelerator programs, literally trying to keep up with the people doing things, and my body hated me. It was just raging, my weight was fluctuating, I couldn't sleep, my appetite was trash and I really was spiraling because I thought why can't I keep up Like? This is my dream, this is what I want to do, and what I realized is I'm not supposed to be able to keep up with them and what they were doing wasn't sustainable or healthy.

Speaker 3: 6:11

I tried it and tried it, and I was in that cycle for a really long time and I was getting sicker and sicker as long as I stayed in the cycle. It took a health scare for me to be like wait a minute, if I just offload some of these or if I just did this a different way to conserve some spoons, maybe I wouldn't feel as bad. And then I didn't. I didn't feel as badly and I'm like OK, it was the wrapping my mind around. This looks different because I am different and I had to be OK with it.

Speaker 3: 6:40

But my difference also super cool and what I realized is that are different. Other people try to emulate because they realize that the hustle culture for real isn't sustainable for anyone. I didn't realize how many people look at the entrepreneurs in the chronic illness space and go, wow, I wish I could do it like that.

Speaker 2: 6:59

Yeah, that seems nicer. Oh, like you're trying to get balanced, you're actually prioritizing sleep. That seems like that would feel better.

Speaker 3: 7:07

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 7:10

Stay up all night? No for sure. Yeah, I love that you were also an accelerator program, because it does feel really lonely at the time when you're like, oh, like, trying to explain to other people what it's like. And it was.

Speaker 3: 7:19

Yeah, I'm in one right now and I am the only one that's sick. I'm like, oh, I can't be in there. I had class and I had meetings and I'm like something's got to give. And I guess today it's going to be the accelerated program that is further down on my list of priorities, but I'm in one now and it's exhausting because we're doing these meetups and to introduce yourself, and it's the constant. Hey, I know that you want me to be super active in this pod and I may not be able to, and here's why. And then the fielding the questions, but also hearing the disappointment in the email communications like, oh, you missed another meeting or you left out early and I'm like, but you don't actually get why I'm so glad we're having this conversation.

Speaker 3: 7:59

I'm just over here calling, Thank you.

Speaker 2: 8:02

No, I love. I get two points about why. I think I learned one be a little bit more vocal about what you're experiencing. I didn't tell anybody except my business partner that I had health issues, and so when people would make comments, I've really internalized it. And the other thing I think is just like not caring if other people make comments or don't understand what you're experiencing.

Speaker 2: 8:19

I remember so many times sitting in meetings. I remember one time in particular I just had like a massive flare. I have fibromyalgia, so it was just like pain all over. And I'm sitting in this meeting and someone looked at me and said you have to try a little harder with Spanish. I literally was having a hard time processing English at this point. I've done everything just to get myself out the door. I was sitting there just waiting to clean it through the whole meeting and stuff, and after I just that's not mine, I don't need to, it doesn't matter what that person thinks, it does not matter, but it is hard. It is hard when you feel you're being judged or someone thinks you're living with chronic illness and you're showing up. That is taking Herculean strengths. That is like you know, that's like tenacity to another level.

Speaker 1: 8:57

I have a question for both of you, for the people like me out there that have no idea what you're talking about. What is an accelerator program?

Speaker 2: 9:07

Oh, my gosh sorry. No, it's okay.

Speaker 1: 9:08

I'm just listening to both of you going. I have no idea what you're talking.

Speaker 3: 9:11

So think of it as business mentorship. On speed, they got X amount of weeks to get you through a program and a lot of the times they're grant programs, so at the end you get some monies of some sort, but they want to make sure it's value added. They cram it at you in a small amount of time and several of those have decided I couldn't do that anymore, I couldn't pitch for competition. It is a lot.

Speaker 2: 9:36

It is supposed to accelerate your growth, so supposed to help with, like, getting your meeting investors and helping you to get, like, your pitch deck ready. So that can be very helpful. But yeah, it's very intense, so, on top of running your business hard pass for me. It'd be interesting there's accelerators for chronic illness, though I think it would be interesting if they had more accelerators that were geared towards entrepreneurs that had like neurodiversity or who needed a different approach to how they're doing their business, because how typical accelerators are is very hustle.

Speaker 3: 10:05

Yes, that might be on a to-do list.

Speaker 1: 10:08

I feel like that would use every spoon I have and you wouldn't see me for a month because I'd be sleeping for a month just to catch up. It's a lot and it doesn't.

Speaker 2: 10:17

Honestly, there are points too, when you almost resent your business, even though you love what you're doing so much. I think it's like what am I doing to myself? I'd be like what am I like? Am I crazy?

Speaker 3: 10:25

Oh my gosh, I literally told Jen last month. I was like I got this feeling like I don't want to do this anymore, and she was like, well, what do you mean? And that is where the feeling was coming from. There was an insane amount of pressure from this program, to the point where is this even my passion? I didn't want to look at my stuff or do any marketing or communicate or people. I just need to get this done so I can be done with this program. And at that point I just need to be done with the program. Maybe I'll feel a little bit better. So I took that breather, I disappeared off the social media, I went on what I call a mental vacation. I am a mental nomad.

Speaker 3: 11:01

I disappear for an unknown amount of time and then I pop back up just so that I could find the balance and disconnect from what I knew was about to make me sick, disconnect from what I knew was about to make me sick. I had gotten back in the rabbit hole of hustle culture for the sake of being able to do this thing and to not look different than this group, for the sake of them to shut up talking to me or talking around me about me not being there, understanding that my body needed different things, and to include my mind. My mind needed me to care for it way more than I was while I was trying to spiral in this hustle culture. So, while you're out and about, what is your support network like? Because you travel a lot and you've done some accelerators and those are a lot and you have a chronic illness, how's?

Speaker 2: 11:45

your support. I value support a lot more than I used to. Because of hustle culture, it's easy to internalize this hyper-independence I need to do it all. Asking for help is no, I need to figure this out on my own. I mean, none of us are meant to do this alone, and that is also a very aggressive, masculine type of way of looking at business in the world and also, through colonization, the idea that people need to be individuals and you should not be shown up in communities. So community is important.

Speaker 2: 12:12

I've been reframing how I look for it, and so that includes being really intentional about connections with folks Anywhere I travel. It doesn't have to be permanent for it to be meaningful and impactful. Being intentional about keeping in touch with people like my friends that live in different countries, professional networks, having been also wherever I go, making sure that I know where are their doctors or hospitals, where are people, therapists, people who I can get support from. I think really just trying to build a network that is fluid and flexible wherever I go so I feel I'm not alone, because that is my default survival response is to be like I got this and then you kind of like uh, hydronate, which is not good.

Speaker 3: 12:50

So you do some regulation, self-regulation, mapping your window of regulation.

Speaker 2: 12:59

I think that's the wording. Can you tell me a little bit more about that? I feel like that's when I hit my rock bottom. When I was doing the startup was when I was so dysregulated I was in fight or flight so much. So I started working with a energy healer, hypnotherapist, who really focused a lot on nervous system work, and that's when I realized how much I've been disconnecting from my body, because obviously, when you're in chronic pain or you're not feeling well, you don't want to think about your body very often. But it was so key to being able to actually recognize that I was overdoing my limits and help myself to regulate.

Speaker 2: 13:25

The window of regulation, also known as a window of tolerance, was developed by Dr Dan Siegel and it's basically the concept that there is a kind of a sweet spot for where we can manage stress and emotional arousal. It's normal for us to not be calm, because if someone makes you angry, you're going to be angry. If you're sad, you're going to be sad, but the key is to be able to get yourself back into that area where you're then able to be more regulated, make better decisions, be able to take care of yourself. If you're dealing with a lot of chronic stress and you're not able to regulate yourself. You end up living like dysregulated, either in fight or flight or in freeze collapse for long periods that are not good, not healthy for you.

Speaker 1: 14:04

Where do I even begin Back up here, because we've kind of danced around what your chronic illness is. Let's tell listeners more about your diagnosis story. Do you have an elevator pitch to explain what that is?

Speaker 2: 14:17

I've dealt with kind of complex mental health issues since I was a teenager so I guess that's been 20 years now and I looked out for celiac disease when I was 21. And then from there just dealt with a lot of gastrointestinal issues, pcos, and then I developed fibromyalgia. It took me about two years to get a diagnosis because I was I honestly had to like really advocate a lot to get that, and it's now been eight years. So fibromyalgia is a basic condition of, like the nervous system, the body is overly sensitive to stimuli. Basically, the main kind of characteristics are like chronic pain all over, difficulty with cognitive processing, extreme fatigue and also difficulty with sleep disturbances. But the pain I think for me anyways is a huge one. I have just all different types of pain all over.

Speaker 1: 15:02

Okay, I'm going to be really honest with both of you. If you can't tell already, I'm having a struggle bus with words today, and that's why I've been mostly sitting back and listening to both of you is because my mind is working, my mouth probably not so much, so bear with me with any questions I have. As you're talking about this regulation, what's popping in my head is people like me, where sometimes I feel I can't even regulate my body temperature, and so is that something that you've struggled with and, if so, what would your advice be to listeners?

Speaker 2: 15:37

Definitely, temperature is a physiological response, so it can definitely be linked to your nervous system states. I'd say, though, less on trying to control the representation of the symptom and more focusing on what does my body need right now? Whatever tools and resources you use are going to depend on your nervous system state, and they're also going to depend on what you like and where you're at. Meditation doesn't work for everybody, for example. What's really helpful is figuring out when I am hyper aroused, when you were in fight or flight, what does my body feel like? My heart rate goes really fast, or maybe I'm really hot, or whatever.

Speaker 2: 16:10

Kind of figure out what it is for you when you are in fight or flight. What is it like when you are in freeze, what does it feel like when your body is regulated? And that way, when you start to figure out those clues, those triggers, those behaviors, then you're better able to. I'm hyperactive right now. This is the tools that work for me. When that happens, it takes a bit of trial and error, but it requires you to look at yourself, because we all have completely different nervous systems. Works for one person is not going to work for the other person.

Speaker 1: 16:33

Absolutely Putting together a toolkit. I messaged Andy and Linnea yesterday. I was a hot, hot mess. I love how they support me and each other when we are feeling like that and sometimes the logical thing that I would normally do or recommend to someone else maybe in that moment I'm not able to slow down and function to do that thing. Sandy can send over a YouTube clip of something I need to listen to to slow me down and to help me get back to where I need to be, Because yesterday I had a massive panic attack, have no idea why.

Speaker 1: 17:10

No rhyme or reason, no stress. The only thing I could look at was I was traveling over the weekend and it was a seven hour drive to get to where I was. I was only there for three nights. Then it was a seven hour drive back, and so a lot of trying to put the pieces together and I feel in the chronic illness world that's a lot of what we do. We're always trying to put the puzzle pieces together and run through our toolkit and sometimes our brains just can't slow down to work out our toolkit, which that always sucks when that happens.

Speaker 2: 17:40

Yeah, but part of the toolkit can also be co-regulating with others, and so that's what you did by reaching out for support. Again, co-regulation is just feeling safety and support with another nervous system. I think we like discount, we think it needs to be some like big, spectacular thing that we do. It really can be as simple as like getting a hug from somebody or having a conversation or like. It can really be that simple.

Speaker 1: 18:01

Absolutely, and what works one day might not work the next day, and that's okay. It's a matter of finding out, like you said, what our body needs in the moment, allowing ourselves to give over to that five minutes and seeing if it's actually going to work. I don't know about you, but sometimes we hype ourselves up so much we're like it's not working. It's not working, yeah, but you have to give it a minute.

Speaker 2: 18:22

Or we put a deadline on how, when it's supposed to work, basically, oh, I've only got five minutes, so this needs to get done and it could take 10 minutes, like it takes as long as it's going to take. If you're able to regulate, you'll be more productive, you'll be more balanced, whatever to move forward. But stressing yourself out because it's taking a little longer is not, isn't going to really yeah, isn't going to help. I think that's. I think self-compassion has been more than like the best things I've learned from nervous system. Regulation work is just. Whenever you have these symptoms, whatever it may be, if, if you're experiencing a panic attack, if you're experiencing a lot of anger, it's your body trying to protect you. I think that's been really interesting to reframe versus it's really easy with chronic illness to be like my body's failing me.

Speaker 1: 19:00

But when I?

Speaker 2: 19:00

was able to look at pain as my body saying slow down or I need something. That reframe honestly even reduced my time that my flares would last has been last because I wasn't sitting there like shaming myself, which really, yeah, was not helping. So how?

Speaker 3: 19:12

has living your nomad life? How has that influenced your relationship with adaptability and your overall like? This is my purpose. I got to be out here, I got to move, I got to see the people be in the communities.

Speaker 2: 19:27

It's been really interesting looking at impermanence and really being able to kind of go and go with the flow a little bit and not be so tight and rigid and expecting how things are going to turn out. I feel really grateful that I get to experience that Also. I mean traveling. It also comes with being creative and having a little more strategy and a little more. I think how I travel now is also better than how I traveled in my 20s, pre-protic illness. I think that's also taught me to be grateful for where I'm at, not be looking back, just recognize that every iteration is totally okay. I think sometimes we get stuck on like, oh, things are different now and different isn't necessarily bad.

Speaker 3: 20:24

So if we just talk real quickly about the food I'm a foodie, I love num, num, noms. Can you just how's the food? As you're traveling, what is like your favorite place that you've been, where the food was like I could eat this every single day, over and over and over again? Do you have a favorite food, a favorite travel location where you just had the best snacks? I?

Speaker 2: 20:46

could literally eat Mexican food every single day, particularly from like the Oaxaca area, the taludas, and like moles and like tacos Like I could eat, and it's mostly corn based, oh my gosh. Yeah, food is an important part of travel you are speaking my language.

Speaker 3: 21:03

Jen loves tacos.

Speaker 1: 21:05

My family. We could eat Mexican every day Best food Mine is Korean.

Speaker 2: 21:09

Yeah, ooh, korean's also good.

Speaker 3: 21:11

I could do Korean all day. It's just like my favorite. It's in my body, digest it so well and it's perfect because I'm vegan, so it's majority plant-based and I can eat all the things. So, as a sensitive introvert, can we talk about boundary setting? Because I'm also a sensitive introvert, can we talk about boundary setting? What strategies have you developed that made communicating your needs a little bit easier for you to people that don't necessarily always get it?

Speaker 2: 21:39

Yeah, First of all reframing that boundaries are not a favor that somebody does for you.

Speaker 2: 21:43

It's really helpful.

Speaker 2: 21:44

I think I got into the habit of like over explaining things, like all the reasons why I couldn't do something or why I need to do something, and no like, just cut that out.

Speaker 2: 21:52

A boundary is what you are going to do for yourself and to keep yourself safe, recognizing that energy is finite and that if I'm setting a boundary, it's the best thing, not just for me but for, like, my work, for my relationships, for anything that I want to actually accomplish in the future. I think it's helpful, too, for people who struggle with setting boundaries to actually be around folks who are really good at it, because seeing I have a few friends that are so good at setting boundaries and so compassionately the way that they do it A few couple of times I'd see them do it how this amazing, and we know that when someone's good at setting boundaries, they're also generally really good at receiving boundaries and respecting other people's boundaries. And then you know that there's not going to be self-sacrificing or that resentment. I've actually emulated other people and that was how I was able to, because we can't always control how other people are going to react, of course.

Speaker 3: 22:43

But being around folks who are really good at it was really helpful for me yeah, boundaries are my jam y'all I love a good boundary.

Speaker 1: 22:48

She's so good at it. Oh, I love a good boundary. If I'm struggling with boundaries, I just call andy I love a good boundary listen were you always. We're doing it for us?

Speaker 3: 22:56

no, I wasn't. I literally was a doormat. Okay, I was, yes, pick me, I it, all the things. And then I died for 38 minutes in a cycle of yes, pick me. And I don't even remember what I was rushing to, what I was about to do or say, and what was that important and why I had been on the hamster wheel for that long. So my favorite word became no, no, I can't, I don't have the capacity, I don't want to.

Speaker 3: 23:23

No is a complete sentence, all the things, but I have always been one that respected other people's boundaries. I just never felt strong enough to enforce my own. I was also the kid that was bullied, the teenager that was bullied, the young adult that was bullied, that was in an all-male career field that nobody wanted to listen to or talk to, but spent a lot of time talking down at. As I empowered myself more in just how I loved me, how I looked at me, how I talked to me when I walked into rooms that were late. You're not going to talk to me that way today, because I didn't even talk to me that way.

Speaker 3: 23:55

Today, I realized that I had started to believe all the things that they had implied about me and my worth. I started to believe that and I wouldn't look myself in the mirror when I got to a point where I could look at me and not want to pick me apart. How I walk in rooms look different now you can't break me. At one point in time you almost fractured me. You can't break me because you're not going to say anything to me that I'm going to absorb because of what I said to myself this morning and I can't change how you feel about me. But I know how I woke up feeling about me and I know exactly how I'm going to go to bed feeling about myself. There's nothing that you can say to me that's going to make me feel any differently than what I just said to myself this morning.

Speaker 3: 24:36

And I start with me every single morning. Whatever it is I'm going to say to me, whatever I was moved to say to me, is always something empowering that will lead me closer to what my ultimate goal is, and that's balance, peace, happy, healthy, thriving for me and everybody around me or everybody that comes in contact with me. But it wasn't always that easy for me. No, I honestly had to die unexpectedly for me to pick me instead of saying, hey, I pick me, I needed to pick me, instead of saying, hey guys, pick me, I needed to pick me. And for I won't even say unfortunately, fortunately, I had to die and get life part two, the chance at life part two, before the person that picked me was me what's.

Speaker 2: 25:16

What you're describing too, is an example of like so many people have like that fun response. It's a survival response. You don't want to be rejected, so you will. People pleasing and that can really be stemmed back to our childhoods or early experiences. But so much of when you sit and recognize I would rather be rejected by other people than myself, I would rather be well, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2: 25:35

Look myself in the mirror and say I like myself, I like how I move to the world, I like the integrity that I have. It really just like all the other noise around just reduces. And then you do find that people who respect I respect people. When someone tells me no, I respect that because my brain's a little bit like I know it's more analytical. So if someone says no, I'm like, hey, no. When someone's a bit more, maybe, that I'm like do they want to be here? Are they just doing it because they feel bad, like I appreciate when somebody, and when you're around somebody who's like a hell yes or hell no, then you know that they actually want to be there or they actually want to do the thing, and so that feels good as well to be on the receiving end or to be the person in relationship with that other person.

Speaker 1: 26:10

You have mentioned reflecting on energy management beyond the spoon theory. What tools or frameworks do you use to manage your energy from day to day?

Speaker 2: 26:21

Yeah, I think energy management is like more nuanced and even for, like people with chronic illness, something that's really helped me is really I can almost look at like energy management like a pie chart, like broken up between so like our physical, cognitive, energetic, emotional, and that I know how long I can sit and work on a computer before, like cognitively, my brain, like mental fatigue, is gone, and so if I do too much then I might take from other areas of my life, like my ability to call a friend and talk to them.

Speaker 2: 26:47

But I kind of look at everything's always shifting and fluctuating and every day is an opportunity to really check in and be like maybe normally I can sit for an hour without moving, but maybe today it's like a half hour because I'm feeling stiff, and so I think that it just requires a lot of like affecting with your body, but recognizing that different things take different amounts of energy and also different. You might be able to go for a walk after working, but it may be unable to have a conversation. So there's different forms of energy and stuff, but interesting to kind of navigate.

Speaker 1: 27:15

Does that change when you're traveling? Are there signals that you notice as you're moving around?

Speaker 2: 27:20

Yeah, because energy is also impacted by our external environment. Right, some of us are a little, I wouldn't say a ton, but I do get sensory overload sometimes, like noise and from clouds, and so travel can definitely be really loud depending on where you're staying, what you're doing or being around a lot of people on buses or whatever. Energy can be really draining for me. So I think being aware of our energy it's not just internal, it's also what's going on around us. So being aware of how our different environments can impact our energy for sure is really important, which is why I'm really really careful about scheduling.

Speaker 2: 27:52

I'm careful about always putting in rest days as if it's like a meeting, and being careful about looking ahead and time blocking for things. Because of my brain a little neurodiversity I will write to-do lists that are like 50 items long. I'll just keep adding things and so having to be like what is the one or two things I need to get done today, I get that done. Now what Do I have energy for more? If I do, what is it so really going step by step versus trying to make a really massive plan, when your plan should be bite-sized and then they should also adopt?

Speaker 3: 28:49

So can we talk a little bit about mental health and mental health treatments? You comfortable, yeah. How has your mental health issue shaped your approach to seeking your care for chronic pain? What has that been like? Have you been treated kindly? Have you like? What has that been like for you?

Speaker 2: 29:06

I always like to talk with people about this because I think everyone's had their experiences unexpectedly when it comes to mental health. But I think that there's a lot of stigma around obviously mental health, and I think particularly it's gotten a little bit better, maybe not necessarily in how treatment options, but just in how society is viewing mental health now. But I think like 15 years ago it was not the case, and so when I was diagnosed, I was diagnosed with bipolar, which I since now I'm going through a process of not that may not be the right diagnosis, I don't think it was I was on so much medication. I think that was a time that still is a time where doctors want there's an emphasis on like diagnosing and labeling, but not necessarily on improving quality of life. And so there's so many years about six years of my quality of life was really really poor. I was not getting better. I was on so much medication, like seven medications and just feeling lost who I was, and there's so much stigma around too, particularly with mood disorders.

Speaker 2: 29:58

So I think that then when I was going through fibromyalgia, I just recognized this is another invisible illness with a stigma. There's where I don't want to try much of medications and labeled and not actually. I don't want to try much of medications and labeled and not actually. I don't want my quality of life to again suffer. So it did change how I approached treatment. I didn't realize how much it impacted. When I really started doing nervous system work I realized I would feel so anxious talking to doctors because of those experiences of feeling like not heard or going in and be like I have all these side effects and be like, no, that's not a side effect of the medication and it's like why am I losing all my hair effects? And be like, no, that's not a side effect of the medication and it's like why am I losing all my hair? Yeah, I think just feeling really less with you for a while and it can feel really disempowering you said something that made me think.

Speaker 1: 30:35

Now you said you're working on. Maybe that wasn't the true diagnosis. I've been in that situation before, so my question for you would be medications. What did that do to you? Because if you are put on a medication for something like bipolar and you don't have bipolar, it can actually make you act bipolar. So did you have that situation happen?

Speaker 2: 30:56

Yeah yeah. I was getting so agitated that at one point they put me on antipsychotics. I was on so many medications and I'm on anything now. It's not that my mental health, it's something I'm still continuing to work on. But I have not had any manic episodes or anything, which makes me think that that was never really the proper diagnosis. I think that I was just really dysregulated. I also think it was ADHD, but whatever it is, I know people can have both.

Speaker 2: 31:20

The reality was the medications were not working and it was every time going to the doctor and getting another one put on. I just remember going to a psychiatrist and be like what is our end game here? What is the dose that we're getting to? And he just said I have patients who are half your size on much higher doses. I have patients that are double your size on lower doses. We just try things. I just was like I don't want to play Russian roulette with my life. I would spend hours and times and not even know the hours would buy, like I would just sit be at a computer and I would be like didn't even know that what had happened, things that were really awful. And then you start feeling really bad about yourself, because then you think that people think that you're incompetent or that you can't articulate your thoughts, or that you, you know it's a huge. It's a huge weight, I think, a huge loss of confidence.

Speaker 1: 32:01

I think I would say I don't think we talk enough about how okay. You go to talk to them and they think maybe the diagnosis is whatever it is they come up with, and they give you medication A, and then you need to take medication B because of the side effects from medication A. And then there's medication C that's added on because medication A and B are causing something else. And it goes on and on and on, and before you know it, you're on 13 medications and feeling like you're walking through fog, but you still don't feel like a real person and we need to talk about that.

Speaker 2: 32:35

Yeah, yeah. No, it's really scary. I mean, you don't really know what is the medication, what is the illness and who is. What is me? What is the? And? The problem is, too, we have a negative connotation towards mental illness or any sort of illness, but that's just a part of being human, a negative connotation towards mental illness or any sort of illness, but that's just a part of being human. The problem for me was not the label. The problem was I was not getting better. I want to be better. I don't care what the label is, I want to feel better. I was getting much worse, yeah.

Speaker 3: 32:58

What advice do you have for fellow Spoonies about advocating for themselves in their care and navigation?

Speaker 2: 33:04

I think the doctors are such a valuable wealth of knowledge, but at the end of the day, it's your body and you need to trust when something is off and again, build a support network of folks who can say are you sure that's going to work for you, are you sure that's really be partners in your treatment, because it can be very overwhelming to do it on your own. And if you're in a really vulnerable state and you're alone at the doctor's office and they're like, take this, you're like, okay, I guess you're desperate, right? So I think having that support system even bringing someone with you to a doctor's appointment, writing questions down in advance and having things ready to go your medical record is your medical record, so you should always ask for it. You should always keep all of your blood work and everything. I have a massive folder. I keep all of it. Yeah, you're the manager of your health and also to do that too, I think like not to diminish.

Speaker 2: 33:48

Doctors have only 15 minutes with patients. It's a very short amount of time. So what can you do to also help them, to help you? When I got diagnosed with fibromyalgia, I actually brought in the diagnostic criteria because we were kind of like doing around it. I don't do every single like scope, scan, blood work. You can imagine. I brought the diagnostic criteria to my doctor, she went through with me and that's when I finally got a diagnosis and then got to see a rheumatologist. Sometimes you do there's things you need to do to kind of like help your doctor, because they are so overloaded with patients that don't have a lot of time. I agree.

Speaker 3: 34:21

So what is one piece of advice you wish someone would have given you at the beginning of your chronic illness journey and managing your chronic illnesses?

Speaker 2: 34:31

I would love to hear your thoughts too. I think would be. I was like very fixated on like putting my chronic illness into like remission and like really rigid about it. I spent a lot of time on like message boards and like looking in different like support groups that I was just so anxious that I was gonna get worse and worse and worse, and the only option was to get worse and worse and worse. And the only option was to get worse and worse and worse or be completely healed, and there was no in between.

Speaker 2: 34:54

And I think that, like when we focus on like what, what should be, we we kind of lose sight of what could be. And so there's so many beautiful things that come into my life because of like experiencing chronic illness and, uh, change is inevitable everyone. If you live long enough, you will have health problems. You will experience personal and professional setbacks. It is how you navigate them. I think I just saw what I was experiencing. This is like the end. You are never going to be fun again. No one will want to be around you. You're just going to get sicker and sicker and really it's like this is an obstacle and maybe it's going to result in things being different forever, in things being different forever, but maybe that different isn't necessarily completely bad. Maybe there's other opportunities in beauty that I can find Love that.

Speaker 3: 35:32

I love everything about what you just said. I was also her, I was the. I just needed to go into remission and I was in all the message boards and on the fad diets and they said this would work and all the things. And I would be so frustrated with myself because it wasn't the miracle, because it didn't work, because I still had all the things and I still felt like. I felt. I realized that when I was kinder to me and I started celebrating the things that my body could still do and even though they looked differently, I was doing the things. When I started to just love on Andy, in that way, I was able to do more things and, although it looked different, I was able to do them. So what's next for your journey as a slow traveling nomad and a super advocate?

Speaker 2: 36:19

Yeah, I think I'm going with the flow. I want to live my life authentically and intentionally and see where it takes me and feeling really grateful for every day and opportunity that I get to have to experience the world. But in terms of chronic illness, I'm super passionate if it hasn't come out in this conversation yet about nervous system regulation and want to share this. Education can help with our regulation and want to share this knowledge with everybody. So I really see doing more of that.

Speaker 2: 36:41

Hopefully, if other people I think just more stories you hear of other people navigating chronic illness and doing it the wrong way. You see there's lots of different ways to do it. There's no right or wrong way and if other people feel empowered to be like I can live my life in an interesting way. This isn't over for me. I think that that would be really. I'd love for other people just to feel. I followed somebody who, back on Instagram, was like not even videos, yet I followed somebody who was like posting their photos of doing yoga with chronic fibromyalgia and every day and every week how they improved. I still think about it eight years later how much that helped me to see somebody trying and making improvements, no matter how long it took. I think that's really valuable for people to see.

Speaker 3: 37:16

Where can people connect with you?

Speaker 2: 37:18

I'm trying to get off of all the social media. So right now I'm on Substack Cosmic Beat it's called and then my website and I write on Medium. So I'm trying to do long form because I find social media really too stimulating on medium.

Speaker 1: 37:30

So I'm trying to do long form because I find social media really too stimulating.

Speaker 3: 37:33

Yes, Caitlin, you're a whole vibe and I just want to pack a backpack and travel with you Like you're a whole vibe, All of your energy just gives calm and peace, and this was thank you for one wanting to sit down and redo the conversation with us. Thank you for being open to that and thank you for spending the time with us. I've learned a lot and I just I just feel calm with you. So if nobody tells you that today or ever, just know that you have a very calming presence and I am very grateful that I got to spend an hour in that calming presence.

Speaker 1: 38:05

That's very sweet, thank you, I agree. I almost feel like I've been sitting here listening to spa music or something. I want to kick back in my chair and close my eyes. Now I don't know what it is, but listening to the two of you, I'm quite relaxed. I might have needed that after yesterday.

Speaker 3: 38:20

Well, good.

Speaker 1: 38:20

So I appreciate both of you and the time I was loving connecting with you both.

Speaker 2: 38:24

And yeah, if you're ever in Colombia or feel like traveling, let me know, go around, and I'm always open for travel buddies. Heck, yeah.

Speaker 1: 38:31

Heck, yeah, listeners, until next time. Don't forget your spoon.