Neurodiversity in Vet Med: Finding Your Superpower

Superpowers are a theme in this episode of Vet Life Reimagined. Ebony eloquently describes her experiences with ADHD. If you haven’t heard of the terms neurodiverse or neurodiversity, you will soon. It’s not a medical term, but it is a term to describe different ways of thinking.

Increasing diversity in veterinary medicine is a big topic. When we listen and empower diverse individuals, we have a profession of people living out their superpower. In this episode, Ebony will explain very challenging experiences and how she found her superpower and used it to help veterinary medicine. Ebony has started several pet-centered businesses including a dog walking and dog training business, worked as a veterinary assistant, and also is a social media manager for veterinary companies. 

Ebony on LinkedIn
Temple Grandin website
Episode on YouTube

Transcript

Megan Sprinkle, DVM: [00:01:33] When did you know you wanted to have animals as part of your career?

You know what? The better way to say that is like, when did I didn't know? Cause I think, I don't think I ever chose, I think it chose me. I think I just came out just like looking like a Disney movie where like all the birds and all the animals are talking to you and smiling at you. 

Maybe in preschool for one second. I thought about being an artist. And then after that, I was like, Nope, I want to be a veterinarian. And stayed specifically veterinarian for a long time. But of course, now I just work any anywhere that has to do with animals will pique my interest.

So I can end up anywhere. I don't know where my career is going after this, but I like it that way. And you are in good company. Cause I think actually I wrote an article about this not long ago about a lot of people still as adults were like, I still don't know what I want to do when I grow up, that moment.

So I think it's a constant exciting evolution of our careers. And I hope that is something that [00:01:00] people can take away from this podcast, just seeing all the different things that you can do. And you mentioned art. So I already think that you have both sides, right? You have that very creative side of you as well as this love for animals, from a science perspective as well.

 For you, it looked like you started doing a lot of research in your school days. So what kind of attracted you to research? I'm just being a science nerd, to be honest. I think that before I understood the different niches of that mid that I just, I think. I mostly relate myself to like Eliza Thornberry , she loved animals, but she also just really loved science.

And I literally was like, that's what I want to do. I want to travel the world and learn everything about everything and talk to animals and be a wildlife explorer and things like that. So I think, just coming from it, from a scientific perspective, research [00:02:00] was just the natural next step.

And, especially when you're trying to get into vet school, they always say it's good to have a diverse background. I always figured that, I'll get the hands on animal experience as well, but I'll also get behind a microscope or in the lab or doing Western blots and all the nerdy stuff I wanted to do.

That's just the mode that I decided to go at it. Yeah. Okay. So you're speaking to my heart. So for those that are not familiar with the wild thorn berries, that was also one of my favorite TV shows to watch. So I totally get that. I think that's part of what science is learning more about the unknown.

Now, what was your research journey like? Did you end up loving it? You know, what's really funny is that I liked it a lot until I realized that it was making me depressed. And I think that I didn't connect those dots initially.

Because, I think it's interesting. And I had all these different internships in college. So I was moving from [00:03:00] one subject to the next subject and doing something different. And when I went to grad school for animal science. And I was studying like the gene expression in goat testicles.

Very specific, but that's what I was studying. And I think at that point, it really started to weigh on me of when people talk about how you do work, but you don't see any end in sight. Or you don't get any feedback, right? So if I'm like running an experiment in the lab and it takes four hours to run and then the next day I reviewed the results and go, Oh crap, I made a mistake at step one.

So I have to do it again. It's going to take four more hours. It's going to be another two day process. And then doing that like over and. having that lack of moment of yeah, I finished or yeah, I got it right or something, it, I don't think I noticed the toll that it was having on my mental health, but eventually it hit me , I'm not actually with animals.

 I'm in a lab all day. I don't see any sunlight.[00:04:00] I'm doing the same task over and over. And sometimes you don't even get results , Oh, is there a difference in gene expression here? And sometimes it looks like nothing at all. And it's wow, I spent three months of my life running an experiment and the results were inconclusive.

And so after that started to pile on over time, , it wasn't as fulfilling as I expected it to be. And I understand that now. It's important to have. doPamine inducing activities in your day to day life. So I think that I liked research in short bursts of time when I was doing it for an internship, and when I was switching topics, but when it became, , my job for, , a year or a year and a half, I said, Oh, no, this is not fun at all.

 I wAnted to be in the veterinary clinic with actual animals and actual people. So I think the lack of socialness just started to weigh on me. Yeah. , I think I remember us chatting about some, maybe the lack of mentorship, [00:05:00] but it sounded like, you got really close to defending a thesis and I don't know if that was that also part of it? Like you, did you feel supported? I know several people who have gotten PhDs and defending a thesis is rough. And a lot of. DC's advisors can be very strict on guiding that process.

, so if you are a person that needs that constant feedback, , which I do relate to that. I really appreciate the constant feedback, whether it's good or it's not, I want to be able to tweak something. , so I, I feel like I'm on the right track. , so what was like that getting up to that thesis , and not, , wanting to go through with it, just discovering what you really did want.

What was that like? It honestly, I don't want to, I do have a tendency to be a little dramatic, but I think it was like my quarter life crisis for sure of that period of 23 to 27 [00:06:00] was because to me, I was so singularly focused on getting in veterinary school.

And that was my way of getting to veterinary school is going to grad school first. And so for me, me realizing that I couldn't complete the program was also me saying Oh, my entire life. The only thing that I've ever wanted to do is now not happening anymore. , I'm probably not a good fit for veterinary school.

 Or I might not even get in because I'm going to drop out of this program. And so what it was me functioning on autopilot after the inspiration had already left. And then me wondering why it's not clicking and it's not working and it started to just be like, I don't know what's wrong with me.

I don't know why I can't finish this thesis. I don't know why I can't show up to my meetings. , it just became like too much to bear. And I think my brain just Disconnected altogether of kind of just being like this is extremely tough. We're just gonna pivot to do something else. And then I started a whole business on the [00:07:00] side, which I really loved.

And that was my favorite part of my career. But the root of how that happened is me pivoting and trying to find something else to do out of grad school because, , I just hit a brick wall. And you know what? I know now, like I did. Yeah. I was, , recently diagnosed with ADHD. And I, what it is I was experiencing, , the height of undiagnosed ADHD symptoms right in the peak of, me.

Because what happened is you get out of the structure of college, , college is , you take your classes and you complete them and you graduate. And then so the master's program that I was in I took all my classes and I completed them, but the thesis part of it was extremely ambiguous, and I think that's when it started to fall apart for me of there's no hey here you go you pass you did right, you did good.

It was just me. offering my soul to my advisor over and over and over and just getting red ink, and slowly just being like, I don't even know if I'm as smart as I think I am. [00:08:00] I don't even know if I can do this. Actually, I can't deal with this rejection anymore. And I , just honestly, completely tuned out.

I just stopped participating. In my program, because like I said, I already completed all the classwork, which was really hard for me to understand of why did I get this far and then to stop? But, , rejection sensitivity is very hard to deal with. And for me, personally, I think it was a combination of, , dealing with a lot of time blindness that I wasn't aware of, , dealing with a lot of especially with research, you have to pay attention to the details.

So like I said earlier, I made a mistake. So actually the past work I've done for the past two weeks, none of it matters at the completely start over. I think there's only so many times I could do that before my brain was just like, stop. Stop doing this to yourself. And I remember specifically there was one time 

I had a meeting with my advisor and I was driving to campus and I just broke [00:09:00] down crying on the way to campus. I just pulled over an expressway. It was just like, I can't do this anymore. And then I never went back. So it was tough, but honestly, , it really made me understand the different type of statistics that people talk about in vet med of like the challenges of mental health.

And I think that it would not have been good for me to continue. I'm glad that I stopped when I did. And you are also describing something that is actually pretty common in veterinary medicine is the it selects for achievers. And because it's so hard to get into vet school. And so we're not used to, this sounds terrible.

We're not used to doing badly. Because you are at some of the tops, , in your undergrad getting into vet school. , it can be really hard to even get through vet school because it is very mentally, emotionally everything, demanding. So I think this really can [00:10:00] connect with quite a few different people.

And then you talked about ADHD, which being diagnosed as an adult is actually really common. And we talked a little bit about the term neurodiversity, and I don't know how big that term is quite yet. , I looked it up and. A lot of what I was getting was actually from Europe.

So this was coming up a lot in the UK, , this term, although it is starting to come into , the U S because there is a webinar AHA is putting on that is going to feature Temple Grandin, who is. Is very famous. She's a PhD, , and professor at Colorado state and , she's autistic and is like a, an animal whisperer.

So she's actually known for her animal welfare of farm animals. So she does a lot of large animal [00:11:00] behavior and things like that. She's the one giving this topic , using the term neurodiversity. So I would love to get your thoughts on this. Cause I know you've looked into it as well on how that, and because it's really common in animal careers are people who have different ways of learning and thinking.

And, , so I'm curious, what have you seen so far? , you also experienced it cause you. You did work as a veterinary technician or a veterinary assistant for a while and really had trouble in the way that they were attempting to train and teach you. So what was your experience there?

Yeah, the, , lady mentioned temple. , I think I was at a conference now. Now I have to look it up and figure out if she was at Ibex, but there was someone in Ibex 

and they were talking about how understanding how to, best work with or communicate with the neurodivergent community can help vet med better understand how to [00:12:00] communicate with their patients as well. , as far as it being like more nonverbal things to pick up on and maybe more emotional intelligence.

 And you said also that neurodivergence is a big term and it is and I looked it up before we started. I looked up to have an all encompassing definition.

So I'll just read that. , it says neurodiversity is now used to refer to people with ADHD, autism spectrum disorder, ASD, dyslexia, dyspraxia, and also individuals With other learning disabilities related to reading, writing, math and understanding of directions. , So , it's an umbrella term and it means something different for everybody.

, there's a therapist that I watch on YouTube all the time and she had the best example, which was, she said, neurodiversity is like a slot machine. So everybody who pulls their, neurodiverse in some way, it's going to show up different every time. No two people are the same. [00:13:00] And, , to me, that's obvious, like everybody's different, but I think it's important to remember because I think it's really easy for people to maybe say my cousin's autistic and he doesn't act like that, or I have ADHD and I don't act like that.

So think it's really important to trust people to talk about their own experiences and not, , try to do a one size fits all here's our neurodiverse solution, so if that doesn't work for you, it's not because you're neurodiverse, it's just because, you're bad or you're different or, let people self report to you what they're experiencing and what their symptoms are.

So for example I learned that neurodiversity runs in the family. I didn't know that before I was diagnosed. My mom is an OBGYN and she's dyslexic. And some people would say, how on earth did you make it through med school and do all, are you really dyslexic? You know what I mean? Like trying to try to validate it according to maybe their own [00:14:00] standards or their own goalposts of what it is or it isn't.

, but that's something even I just knew that growing up. I'm like, Oh yeah, my mom was dyslexic and I never thought twice about it. But for some people, dyslexia will get, they might drop out of school or they might, , go on a completely different path because of dyslexia. , so even though you can say, Hey, this one person is dyslexic and they still became a doctor and they did it, so you can do it too.

It sounds encouraging, but it's also like everyone's dyslexia is different. Meet people where they're at. It's the takeaway that I've learned from it. , But yeah, when you were talking about like the different challenges that I've experienced for my personal experience, I have.

Inattentive ADHD, which is, I think it would have been classified as ADD back in the day, but more current medicine, they're classifying ADD and ADHD under the same umbrella now. And so what that looked like for me is [00:15:00] ADHD was never on my radar at all. I never thought I had it. I didn't go to the doctor looking for an ADHD evaluation because I understood ADHD to be, some hyperactive kid in the classroom, probably has behavior issues or probably, fights a lot.

And that wasn't really me. I've never, I didn't have trouble with school, though I did. Consistently have remarks of Ebony is very bright, but she doesn't really pay attention, or she's distracted in class, or she's not reaching her full potential, things like that. , and so when your symptoms aren't what people anticipate them to be, I think if someone said, hey, you have ADHD, and let's give you the support, let's give you this program versus someone just being like, she just doesn't really get good grades.

That's up to her. Maybe it's her work ethic. Maybe it's her this and that. So I grew up thinking that I just had a lot of quirks. I would say that I had a quirky [00:16:00] personality and all of the things that I've come to understand that are symptoms of ADHD. Before I had that understanding, I just thought I was like a hot mess.

Just bumbling through life and that was part of my quirkiness of sometimes people talk to me and I don't really understand what they're saying, but I just nod my head and just smile. . And that's a form of masking that I, I didn't know that I was doing, but having that be a regular thing of sometimes people talk to me, I don't know what they say, but I just gotta go. Yeah, cool. And then I'm used to like figuring it out on my own later.

And that leads to issues when you do something wrong. And then it's I didn't even know to speak up and ask questions for clarification , specifically how that's affected me in Vet Med or on my journey to Vet Med.

. I've always dealt with chronic insomnia. My entire life, my sleep schedule has always been horrific and it's always been something that's out of my control. , and I always thought that was due to anxiety. So I would say I'm an [00:17:00] anxious person, which is, ADHD and anxiety go hand in hand, but for it to be as chronic as it is all the time.

Since early childhood, that was significant. , so because I pretty regularly don't sleep well, , I always , attributed that to me not having great memory. And when you don't have great memory, a few things happen. One , there's a lot of situations where you feel maybe less intelligent or maybe less able to, , Explain your intelligence, or I'll say for me, I a lot of times in work environments, people pick up on is she okay?

Where it's like, Ebony, she's off, right? You're talking to her, she's not really responding to you. Or you say stuff to her and she'll just completely forget about it. And, stuff like that starts to show up. Where it maybe may look like I'm not focused or I'm not paying attention, but that's not really what it is.

. A way that would show up for me in that med, of course, is, there's a lot of things you're learning and there's a lot of [00:18:00] things that you remember. And a lot of times, if I would do something and do it wrong, I couldn't remember did someone already explain this to me and I just forgot about it?

Or did they never tell me in the first place? Or did I just remember it wrong completely? And so it puts you in a space where you doubt yourself a lot. , and that can be hard to, , deal with when you're learning, because I think for me, it turned into a situation where I was never sure if it was a me problem or if it was a training problem.

And so you always just assume it's yourself. And then you get the reputation of , being hard to train or, it's hard for me to explain, but it's like I said, you'll get the idea or most places where I go, people will be like, Ebony's kind of smart, but she's like slow.

And I can't really explain how she's both at the same time. But working with her is great, but also working with her, sometimes the pieces just [00:19:00] don't connect and I would just be like, yeah, girl, I don't know what the problem is. That's just how I am, but I'm trying my best. I'm here. I'm trying to do things.

, another thing that I struggled with is time blindness. I was Always late to things. I'm usually always a little bit late. I'm always five to 10 minutes late. And , it's not because I don't take the job seriously. What I've realized is it's because from the moment I wake up, I'm just constantly getting distracted from what I'm trying to do and nothing gets done.

So if I say, okay, I'm going to wake up, I'm going to take a shower. I'm going to get dressed and I'm going to go to work. What happens is I wake up. And then I feed my cats and then I take my dog outside and then I'm like, , it's been 15 minutes. And then I'm like, okay, let me get dressed. And I'm like, wait, I didn't eat.

And then, oh, man, I actually didn't even finish the work that I was supposed to do yesterday. And that, it's just like a constant, for me, it's a constant way of being like that. And I think it's hard because [00:20:00] for people who don't have ADHD, everyone experiences symptoms like that sometimes, right? Of if you don't get good sleep at night, you're probably going to be very forgetful the next day.

day. You may make more mistakes. You may miss more attentions to details. But the thing about ADHD is that it's not a sometimes thing. It's regardless of how much sleep I get that night, regardless of what's going on in my life, this is just how I function every day. It's not a sometimes thing. It's an always thing.

And I think that can be hard for people to understand because these are Attributes that people often contribute to being temporary, but when you're always doing that then it turns into a, you must not care about this job, you must not take this seriously, and it's like that's not it at all like I'm trying really hard.

One example I'll give you is I always struggled with working like the morning shift, opening for my clinic. And what it was is that if I work morning shift, [00:21:00] I really have to start preparing like a day or a day and a half before I work that morning shift to help myself get there on time.

What happens is if I know I have to get up early in the morning, I'm usually so anxious the night before of knowing that I have to get up early that I actually don't get any sleep at all. And that's reliable for me across the board, like with anything, if I know I have to be somewhere early in the morning, I already know the day before I'm not going to get any sleep.

So if I have to be at work at 7, that means the day before I have to be off of work by 5. So that I can go home, take a shower and take my sleep aid to try to help me get enough sleep so that it can wear off in the morning and time so that I can get to work on time. But then that turns into, okay, the day before I have to work a morning shift, I don't drink any caffeine because I don't want any interference , , so , it's like this big, huge process.

And then you do all of these things and then you're still late. So then you're still, defeated. You know what I [00:22:00] mean? And not knowing that is a symptom of what people call like issues with executive function. It's just me all my life hearing people telling me, you're so careless, you're so irresponsible, .

You're so laid back. And I'm like, I'm actually very high strong. I just get wrong often. And I'm trying my best and I don't know how to put these pieces together but what that turns into at work is, like I said, people taking that behavior as something negative, and then it just cascades. So now I know that I love working in social media now because , I don't start my day before 10.

30, because who knows if I'm gonna get good sleep that night. I have no idea if I'm gonna be well rested, but at least I can set myself up to say, , this is when my workday starts. This is where I set meeting versus, , constantly being . Like everyone else gets to work on time.

Why can't you get to work on time? What is wrong with you? You're [00:23:00] 27 years old and you can't maintain a basic work schedule, let alone clean up, let alone cook. So it's just a constant feeling of just being off kilter. , I also learned that when I was doing research for this, one of the thing, one of the main accommodations recommended by the ADA for neurodiverse people, but specifically with ADHD is flexible scheduling for that reason, because you can see the immense amount of stress that comes into just being at work on time.

It doesn't stress everyone out that way. , and so I think yeah. That's a situation where I said earlier of let people tell you what they need because not every person with ADHD struggles with that. So from someone who may say wow, you think just because you have ADHD, you should be able to be late to work every day.

And it's that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what it takes for me to be to work on time. It is this big versus what it may take someone else to be on work [00:24:00] on time. It's this big. So it will help. All of us function better as a team if I could just be on the afternoon shift, have flexibility in that way. Another thing that's been really helpful for me is wearing noise canceling headphones. So most of my life, there's always been certain sounds or certain things visually that. sTresses me out physically, and it's like I can't deal with it, and I always just took that is like I'm a very irritable person is the way that I internalized it.

Like, whenever we have lunch and learns at work. It was always a struggle for me because I don't like hearing people eat. I don't like mouth sounds and my entire life. I have avoided eating around people like sitting away from people in the cafeteria at school. Or at work, I always go eat in my car. People can read that as antisocial.

People can read that in a lot of different ways, but. What it is some sounds just [00:25:00] really physically disturbed me and it puts me in a bad mood. And like I said, I interpreted as just being irritable. So it's if I'm talking around people and they're eating. I just immediately leave the room.

I cut the conversation short. I'm just like, I can't do this. And now I just look like an asshole and walking away from conversations mid, it's hard to explain to people. But now that I have the verbiage, I can say , if we're all going to be in here together, I'm just going to put my headphones on, my noise cancelling headphones, or oftentimes I'll wear, they have earplugs that are made for people with noise sensitivity, to be able to cut down on those specific sounds that distract you, like even for me, it'll distract me like 10 minutes later, like I'm not exaggerating when I say 10 to 15 minutes later, I'm still trying to unwind from that person who was talking with food in their mouth, and it like makes me angry.

And it's that's not just, oh, hey, little quirk. It's this is an issue. I've modified my life to [00:26:00] avoid eating with people. So that includes holidays. With Thanksgiving, and I specifically come over before or after the meal to try to catch the least amount of people eating so I can communicate with my family and not be in a bad mood.

All of these things , When you don't have an explanation for why you're like that, it can just really make you feel like a crazy person, I want to appreciate that you're very self aware, like this is, and I'm sure this has taken some time to understand, but I really appreciate you and being able to explain this because, Even when we first talked, I took so much away from our conversation of, one, never assume.

Anything about people be a listener and just in genuine, I'm curious, , how are you doing? , and I think it's important to make an environment that is safe for people to communicate with you, because I think when people don't want to look [00:27:00] stupid.

They don't. And so if they don't feel safe, they back to what you were saying before, they may not ask clarifying questions, or they may not feel comfortable enough to say, I really excel better in an afternoon setting than I do in the morning. And this is why this is something that I've learned about myself.

And, also even just explaining the, , it's not that I don't like you guys and I want to be antisocial. I just need to go eat and , have a chill session in my car for a little while, and then I'll come back and we can laugh and we can resume work. , I don't think that is easy to do, to easy to have those conversations.

And I think in a clinic setting, especially, This is medicine. It can be a very stressful environment. And so culture, it's always huge, right? It's always important. That's the number one thing why people leave a workplace is the culture, , and leadership. So if you [00:28:00] don't establish a culture that allows for different people to thrive, because we do have a lot of people who work great with animals .

And, , they have their superpowers. It's just being willing to listen and understand and find that place that allows them to thrive. So I would love to give you that opportunity to talk about your superpowers.

So you've done a lot. You've started your own business businesses. , you've started to find where you thrive you've done dog sitting dog I think training you, you've done all sorts.

So what has been your progression finding your superpowers. Now, that's a great question. , I think that I really had to focus on, like you said, , focus on what you're good at instead of beating yourself up for not being good at the things that you think you need to thrive.

And [00:29:00] even for my specific example, if I know that Attention to detail is not my strong site. I'm not going to go work in emergency. , I think talking to people and interacting with the animals gives me enough, like positive feedback throughout the day to.

stay engaged. , and so in most of the places that I work, they usually do put me towards the front as being the people person or like the face of it , I think I have a lot of patience for when people have dumb questions, or quote, I don't know if people can see this, but quote unquote dumb questions because of my background of.

Being someone who also has quote unquote dumb questions. So I think that when I can be in a space where I can, , help people understand things , I'll just give a specific example of when , I worked in , a wellness clinic and there are a lot of things that when , working in vet med, people would think if you have a dog, you should know this, or if you have a cat, [00:30:00] you should know this.

So there are often times where, people would get frustrated. It's like, how do you have a dog? And you told me that you only give them heartworm treatment when you go for a hike. ANd I'm usually the person to be like, I don't mind explaining that to them because it's a quote unquote dumb question.

It's a quote unquote something that they should know. But I get a lot of, , happiness from connecting those dots for people, because I too understand what it's like to be looking at something that should be simple, , but I don't get it. And , I think That's really great. And I think, like you said, as far as me having like my pet sitting business or my dog training business, which all of those were like the most fun things I've ever done.

, I want to get back into that one day, , because it's. It's outdoor. It involves a lot of movement. You get that instant feedback from a dog when you see them, understand what you're finally trying to tell them and even better when their owner understands, it finally clicks for them.

But I'll say with my [00:31:00] journey, I think I just had to lean into the fact that I have a lot of different interests and not see that as a product of being immature or a product of, people want you to get one career path and do it forever and specialize in it and be great. And that works for some people, but if you're also a career hopper.

If that works for you, then that's also good, too. And that doesn't mean you were bad at it. And that's why you stopped. So for me, that's been the most empowering thing of understanding that I'm always going to have a lot of different interests and leaning into those interests really feels good instead of trying to Say that's a distraction.

That's a distraction. Only focus on veterinary school. Only focus on this. Indulge in your distractions when you have time. Because obviously, that makes you late for everything. If you're indulging in every distraction, you're not gonna be timely for a lot of things. But that's been really healing for me to understand that's just [00:32:00] how my brain works.

And it's not it. A fault or a sign of not being a proper adult. That's just how it is. And it's a really good thing when you lean into it. Yeah. And then you talked as we were starting that you really appreciate being able to get instant feedback on something and it's quick, which I mean, that has social media all over it.

I was like, that's just perfect. And so now you're still in the pet and animal and veterinary communities and you have found kind of your superpower in. Understanding people, especially the simple questions and a lot of times, like our posts that we need to do, especially if we're targeting pet owners, is pretty simple, basic things that are these little hits of information to help them be the best pet parent they want to be.

And so I think that's. [00:33:00] Huge. And because you're in that veterinary environment, I've seen some of your posts and you talked about how awesome it is to help social media for purpose driven companies. And so do you want to speak to that? Because you've worked with some really cool companies and businesses and our industry.

And they have their own really neat stories, but I would love to get your perspective on social media because. In VetMed, we're always learning that one. I think everybody is, not just VetMed, but we are a little behind. That, and then as well, just, working with these purpose driven companies.

Yeah, I'm glad you asked about that. That's something that I decided to focus recently, like within the past, maybe two years of really, like I said, like leaning into my interests and trying to make work feel less like work working in companies that you're just really aligned with their overall mission.

I think that is [00:34:00] It's important to be specific about that because I think initially, if I'm working at a vet clinic and I'm just like, yeah, the overall mission is healthy pets. So I care about that. So I'm here. But doing something even more specific of learning the differences between like corporate owned clinics and private clinics and small businesses and things like that and saying, Oh, I do stand for pet health at large.

But I also like to support local businesses and I also like to support having spaces where you have the control to, to change the culture more. So like I said, like an independent veterinary clinics where you, it's not oh, we have to do this because corporate said, because my regional director said, .

The microcultures within vet med and in becoming even more niche with that of saying like specifically right now I do social media for blend that and they are a group that makes D. E. I. B. Focus C. E. But that's a lot of letters. Sorry. [00:35:00] Equity, inclusion and belonging, continuous education for veterinary medicine.

And I really love one, I work with them with social media, but I also went to one of their voluntary events and , I was teaching the kids about clicker training and positive reinforcement and operant conditioning and. Like I said before, when seeing people make connections, so seeing the kids understand of oh, this is how training works.

This is how we trained a cat to run on a treadmill. And it was just so cute to , see the spark in their eye. And it's really nice to be able to get somebody excited about what you're excited about or explain to them why it matters. And I think. That is specifically something that I care about more than just vet med at large, there's a lot of ways to care about animals, but also incorporate other things that you care about as well to make it like just really hit home for you.

And so in terms of [00:36:00] when you're talking about with vet med and social media, I think we have. Like you said, an enormous growth potential, I'll say, for how veterinary professionals and pet care businesses can present themselves online because I think that a lot of the times we struggle with speaking in a language that our audience understands.

I think a lot of us are used to speaking to veterinary colleagues all the time. And like you said, maybe even missing the simplest, most basic things are just where to start. But also understanding how to make what you do, Relevant to your audience because there's a lot of us doing super, super important things.

One of the companies that I used to work with, they sold is very specific and it might be sad, but hear me out. They sell pet body bags. And so at first glance, it's what the heck? What is this? A pet body bag. But what's [00:37:00] beautiful about that is that most people don't even know that when you work in a veterinary clinic, oftentimes after you euthanize your pet they'll end up going into a cadaver bag, which is pretty much just a glorified trash bag.

They have all the chemicals in them that were using euthanasia that if you go home and bury your dog in the backyard, all those chemicals are also in your backyard. All the little deer and raccoons that come digging in your backyard are exposed to that. And on top of that, it's a grief product to be able to have something to do because pet grief can be extremely lonely, particularly because your relationship with that pet was like specific.

So even if you have friends that like your dog, or you have your brother that likes your dog, no one loves your dog the way that you love your dog. And That's a little, I think, less universal than other types of grief of someone's grandma passed. We can all relate to that, but when your specific dog for your specific story in your life passes, so it gives you a way to process grief.

And it's like, [00:38:00] all of that needs to be explained to people for them to get it. But if you just say pet body bag, it's Okay. Nobody wants to think about that. So even in the sense of that of I tried to shift the perspective less thinking about, Hey, your pet is going to die and it's going to be sad and more shift the perspective of like you want them to have the best that they can, even to their last day, you love them more than anybody else in the world.

And that includes the final moments and shifting the perspective like that for that type of product it changed the way a lot of people like interacted with our social media but also just explaining the product to them in person of let me help you find The sweet spot of what your client wants to engage with because they, I don't know if people want to get on social media and go, Oh, my God, my dog's gonna die.

That's not, it's not engaging. And I think things like that of InventMed, we can [00:39:00] definitely bridge the gap of helping your client base understand why what you do is important. And helping them connect their values to your values. And but I think it's important for me personally to also connect to your values to be able to do that.

And that's why when you said of working specifically with businesses with a purpose, it's yeah, because if I don't believe it, then I can't sell it to other people. If I'm this is not great, then I can't find how I personally connected it and share it with others. Yeah.

I think it's really important, like I said, for people to, if you're trying to carve out a unique space for yourself in pet care and vet med, don't leave your personality at the door, because I think that it's really tempting to do that because you want it to be all about the animals. So when you're making it all about the animals, you tend to leave a lot of yourself out and it's bring more of yourself into that.

And then it's a lot more valuable than people think it is. Yeah. Oh my goodness. This is so beautiful. And , it's [00:40:00] totally clicking because you are that connector. You understand the part of vet med, but you also understand the pet owner and you're able to simplify it. There are so many pet owners.

Out there with all different careers. It does not mean that they are ignorant. It doesn't mean that they're stupid. It means that they didn't go to vet school, so they don't think like a medicine person, but they still love their pet. They still want to do what is best. So just like you said, you're able to show the value of the veterinary team and also communicate to the pet owner .

In a way that they can understand it and that's what we need. So just that value is huge. Over my years, I have understood the value of communicating and it comes up in absolutely everything we do [00:41:00] because no matter how much you want to get away from people, we will always be interacting.

With people and communicating with people and so the importance of that. I, again, I hope you appreciate and it sounds like you have you, you've learned to listen to yourself and find that strength. And I think this is so important. So thank you again for sharing all of this. , any other things that you would like to speak to for veterinary medicine, , maybe other people that may be dealing with similar struggles or anything.

. Yeah. And first, thank you for asking that question. I think that really holds it in on the value of authenticity, because I really think that. In Vet Med in particular, especially because there's so many women working in Vet Med, we have a lot more power than we think we do to be able to change the culture. [00:42:00] And I think that's what I would encourage everybody to do is, like I said, bring more of yourself into Vet Med.

Even myself, I'm working on actively trying to like code switch less. And talk to people, code switching is like you talk to your friends one way, but you professionally speak another way. And that's fine. It's appropriate in other settings, but also it can really connect to your community to talk to them the way that they're friends and family.

Talk to them. And so even something as simple as that, if I try to remind myself that you don't have to put on your professional voice, every time it's just be a human being talk to them the same way that you would talk to your homegirl, your friend, your cousin, if you're trying to explain to them what's going on with their pet, it doesn't always have to be perfect English.

But I think it's things like that, that I think all of us know something about our personality that we leave at the door when we go into work because it's very much focused [00:43:00] on the animals and be as professional as you can. And I think infusing, bringing more of our personality into the clinic or being, like you said, maybe I know going forward.

The next time that I go pick up a relief shift somewhere at a veterinary clinic, I'm going to come in and just be like, Hey, I have these earplugs in, and I'm not ignoring you. This is just going to help us have a better day instead of, before that's something that I would have tried to hide.

I probably would have put my earplugs in a car and then just wore my hair down that day because I don't want people asking me why I'm wearing earplugs. I don't want to have to explain. And it's don't hide parts of who you are because we're all coming in here hiding parts of who we are and that makes the environment more stressful.

So come in and you know when you're if your client asks you something, there's one point in your life where you didn't know that and maybe just literally laugh with them about it or maybe, get it like even something as far as The distemper vaccine. People always come in and, [00:44:00] is that going to help with his behavior?

And it's you could get frustrated with that, or you could just laugh with them and say, girl, I used to think the same thing. I was like, distemper. So they're going to have less temper, right? So that'll be nicer, right? And relate to them to say, I didn't get it either. At one point I was also confused and break it down to them in a way that they understand what it means, even if it's not.

Necessarily the most professional that might not be how you talk at a conference when you're trying to give a speech, but maybe it could be maybe the next time you are getting a speech at a conference be a little bit more casual. It might be a little more relatable. People might text less on their phone because they don't automatically tune you out as soon as you start talking.

I would say that I encourage everybody to bring them full selves into work. And I think that creates more space for everyone in vet med. I think that is so well said. I love that. And [00:45:00] final question to wrap up our time because our time went by really fast. What is one thing that you are very grateful for?

I would say I'm very grateful for not going to vet school immediately after college. Like I wanted to. I'm very grateful that I took the roundabout, quote unquote, the long way that I, quote unquote, got distracted along the way. Because there's so many things that I found that give a lot more fulfillment than just trying to build the perfect resume to get accepted into veterinary school.

So I guess I'll say I'm grateful that things , did not go as planned. Sometimes that is helpful. Yeah, I like that. You just, you tried one thing, you read the situation as we've said in a couple episodes, you leaned more into what Was feeling right and that you are [00:46:00] enjoying and you leaned away from the things that weren't.

And you learned more about yourself along the way. And now , you found your superpower and you're making a huge difference in our profession. So I want to thank you so much. I hope that your first podcast was good and fun and that you'll want to continue to do it. Cause I really hope people reach out and want to continue this conversation.

So thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you for having me. You're very easy to talk to.