Moving beyond perfectionism and efficency with Taylor Miller, DVM

Medical culture may encourage and reward perfectionist and self-sacrificial tendencies. Our expert guest had to learn how to overcome these beliefs. Dr. Taylor Miller is a veterinarian and a board of directors member for Not One More Vet (NOMV). She works in clinic relief but spends most of her work in 1:1 mental health counseling with caretakers, individuals whose job description is often part of their personal identity and ask for self-sacrifice.

Dr. Miller is a 2010 Oregan State University College of Veterinary Medicine graduate and in 2015 completed a Master of Science in Clinical Mental Health Counseling at Walden University.

Resources:
Episode on YouTube
Dr. Miller's Toughtful Life Counseling
Fear Free Pets
Not One More Vet (NOMV)

Transcript

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Taylor Miller: [00:00:00] And we think that we're doing good by allowing other people's values, priorities to come before ours. In the end, it rarely serves anybody. 

Megan Sprinkle: Does being in veterinary medicine require us to be perfectionists and to always self-sacrifice? Medical culture might have you feeling this way. Our guest today had to learn how to overcome that belief.

Megan Sprinkle: Dr. Taylor Miller is a veterinarian and currently a member of the board of directors for the Not One More Vet organization, which is where I found her. She also does some clinic relief work, but spends most of her time working in one on one mental health counseling with caretakers such as Human and veterinary professionals, first responders, and as she explains it, people whose job description is often part of their self-identity and may ask for some self-sacrifice.

Megan Sprinkle: I appreciate how vulnerable she is in sharing her personal journey. Taylor shares tons of wisdom about finding your strength and identity, and we also discuss some practical actions to improve clinic culture. So, without further [00:01:00] ado, let's get to the conversation with Dr. Taylor Miller. When did you know that you wanted to get into veterinary medicine?

Taylor Miller: Probably our junior year in high school, we had to choose a senior project that was going to be a capstone project of sorts. And veterinary medicine at the time felt like a really good dovetail in between the science, animals, and farming, which was my primary goal. Cattle ranching. Ah, now did you grow up on a cattle ranch or what inspired you?

Taylor Miller: I did, yeah, we had a small family herd, about 120 cows, cow calf operation, so maybe not your typical, “I want to be a vet for dogs and cats” story, but It certainly took me strange places that were unexpected. 

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, it's a great experience that not a lot of us had and maybe wish we had when we were going through med school.

Megan Sprinkle: I think it gives you a perspective not only to understand animals from a different way because you kind of lived [00:02:00] with them, but you probably also understood a lot of the other people that are involved when it comes to taking care of a herd of cattle. So, I think that those are great perspectives. 

Taylor Miller: It was an interesting piece to have because I felt I was missing a lot of the elements that I saw some of my classmates bring in.

Taylor Miller: I was never employed in the veterinary field prior to vet school. The local clinic let me hang out and I job shadowed, but that's very different than filling medications and doing the nail trims as a technician. There were a lot of skills that in vet school I felt I was missing. And so having that husbandry background helped me offset this feeling that I wasn't good enough because all my classmates could do this and I couldn't.

Taylor Miller: That helped balance the scales a smidge. 

Megan Sprinkle: Yes. And so you entered vet school in 2010 in Oregon State. So what was the journey of vet school like for you? 

Taylor Miller: I expect like for many of us it was a surprise [00:03:00] getting used to being one of the top achieving students in your, in your classes and getting used to the A's and obviously none of those things were simple, but they were largely possible and then getting thrown into vet school and suddenly, maybe you're middle of the pack, maybe you're not even in the middle of the pack.

Taylor Miller: It was a very different experience and it highlighted for me all the ways in which I didn't have good study skills, which was alarming because the binge and purge of information that had made it possible to get through some of the hard classes in undergrad was suddenly not a viable or even a desirable method for learning.

Taylor Miller: I did love the group projects though, finally being in a group of people who took things as seriously as I did. And in retrospect, that just enhanced the perfectionist piece, which I now know to be A problematic element of self. But at the time it felt very nice to be surrounded by other perfectionists.

Taylor Miller: It validated my own experience and probably reinforced it in a way that now is less [00:04:00] helpful. 

Megan Sprinkle: It's a very good observation. And that will come in, I think, later on. But you also had this interest in, um, Cattle and farming there, from that perspective, and I happen to know, jumping a little ahead, that you actually go into small animal.

Megan Sprinkle: So, what was your transition or journey, kind of exploring all the different things in vet med, where you ended up coming out maybe slightly different than you thought going in? 

Taylor Miller: I love this question, partly because I suspect my answer will be more surprising. I was married going into vet school, and then in my second year of vet school, my husband left.

Taylor Miller: He found somebody else who probably wasn't smelling of dead animals from lab all the time. I'm making that up. Anyway, I went through this traumatic breakup during vet school, and for a little while, tried to decide if I was going to continue in vet school or not, because this felt like [00:05:00] such a disruption in my life plan, which had been going so well up until then.

Taylor Miller: That I didn't know if the life plan was still worth trying for, but I ultimately decided I would regret not finishing and I'm glad that I, I used that thought at least to get me through the next two years. But when I graduated, I thought that I needed to find a partner before I could put all of my energy into my career.

Taylor Miller: And although the place I wanted to be ultimately was the small town that I grew up in, I already knew all the guys that were there. I had grown up with them and I didn't want to marry any of them, so I decided, where can you go where there's a large population of possible partners? And it's a city situation in which small animal medicine is primarily what's available.

Taylor Miller: So I chose where to go based on the possibility of finding someone to share my life with. And then, as one does, you get sucked into the life that you [00:06:00] start building, and ten years later, I realized that I had been in small animal and I didn't want to retrace 10 years worth of not using large animal medicine and try to start over again with the large animal.

Taylor Miller: So an unexpected plot twist for me, but 

Megan Sprinkle: it worked out. Well, just because this seems to be a big part of your life at the time. I was not married when going through vet school and then all the training afterwards, which was an internship and beyond. And. I happen to remember dating and all of those crazy things during that time.

Megan Sprinkle: So how did you go about, because this was very important to you. And you know, what were your thought processes? What were you doing to, you know, do a kind of a crazy career? Vet Med is very time consuming. What was your approach to finding a partner, as you said? 

Taylor Miller: It was very methodical and [00:07:00] very science oriented, so I went online dating and essentially made lists every week and then went on dates and eliminated people from that first round and then went to the second.

Taylor Miller: It was, I thought I was being very smart about just, If you want to, if you want to find someone, you have to look. And so I was being very scientific about it all. And I met someone online who I didn't want to date. He didn't want to date, but he had been a receptionist in an exotic animal clinic in a past life.

Taylor Miller: And so I thought, Hey, I don't have friends here yet. I would love to just have some to talk to who understands this animal stuff. And so we became friends. And we still were dating other people, you know, going on dates with other people because I was finding my soulmate and it was this process and this purpose in my life.

Taylor Miller: And of course, then he snuck up on me and the rest is history. But, It is funny to me to look back and realize that of all the people that I met [00:08:00] online dating, the single person I said I would not date is the one I ended up marrying. I like that piece of our 

Megan Sprinkle: story. I do too. And life is funny that way.

Megan Sprinkle: Sometimes it hits us like we're looking, but it hits us where we're not looking. And so just being open to things. So I'm very glad you found that special person. Now, also, right after graduating from vet school, you're in a small animal practice as an associate veterinarian, and I happen to know from talking with you that that was a very challenging year, and this is very common right after vet school, that transition into Thank you.

Megan Sprinkle: You know, big girl and boy, that is a hard transition. So what was that like for you? What was your journey? 

Taylor Miller: I graduated in 2010, as you mentioned, and there weren't a lot of jobs available. And so I actually joined the clinic that I was working at, or that I ended up working at, as a surgery technician, because they didn't have any [00:09:00] veterinary slots open.

Taylor Miller: I had about one month of rent left. And When I joined, there was the agreement that if they ever needed a relief vet, I would be that vet, and as soon as they had an opening for an associate, I would get to be that associate. And so I worked for about six months as a surgery technician, which for me turned out to be a really valuable period of time, because all those tech skills that I mentioned I hadn't had a chance to build in my pre veterinary life were gone.

Taylor Miller: up to snuff in those six months. But it was a little odd to spend Monday and Tuesday working as a technician, earning my technician wages, and on Thursday and Friday get called in as a relief vet and earn relief vet wages in the same hospital with the same group of people. Sometimes I'm taking orders, sometimes I'm giving orders.

Taylor Miller: It was really good for perspective and for appreciation of all the different levels of veterinary professional that exist. So I appreciate it. It seems odd and I wouldn't have chosen it, but it turned out to be a really positive experience [00:10:00] for me. That piece. The clinic itself was rather chaotic. We accepted all walk ins, but we also scheduled appointments for every appointment slot.

Taylor Miller: There was a lot of overflow and chaos and a very large culture of just get it done. Which meant all the things that we talk about. No breaks. I don't think I left the hospital for lunch more than twice in seven years. Just the usual chaos, but I hated it. I hated seeing my colleagues suffering and the number of times you'd run into someone coming out of the bathroom crying, all of those things just hurt because these were fantastic people.

Taylor Miller: And that's when I chose to start that Master's in Mental Health Counseling and see if I could find the tools to, to fix it. As you can tell, my brain decides that if there's a problem, then you deliberately focus your attention on it and you fix it. My education since then has told me you don't fix [00:11:00] things, but at least you can get more information.

Megan Sprinkle: That's a good point. Yes. I think we are very problem solution thinking. Problem solvers. This is what we do. And so to also be able to hold on to the possibility that things might not have a perfect solution, but that leaning into the curiosity piece of it, learning more is probably a better way to sometimes find solutions.

Megan Sprinkle: Especially if it is a more of a cultural situation, which sounds like what you were kind of seeing on top of probably some impacts from the culture on to the medical side of things. But yeah, absolutely. And so I think this is fantastic that you started a master's degree in health counseling. What did you end up kind of learning as a veterinarian who's a perfectionist and a problem solver going through more of a, a psychology counseling [00:12:00] type of program?

Taylor Miller: First thing that makes me giggle still to this day is how, not defensive, but how, how startled I often would be. During my master's degree, when my professors or teachers would ask me how I was doing and actually expect a thoughtful answer and potentially even adjust what they were doing if I gave them something that said I wasn't okay, it highlighted how isolated I sometimes felt in vet school in terms of feeling like I have to be a professional here as a professional student and that that relationship is not up for debate or I don't get to be human in vet school, I need to be a professional instead.

Taylor Miller: And I got to be a human during my master's degree, which was very startling and disconcerting sometimes. But I think the most important thing I learned in those classes was that how you think about something can be just as impactful as whether the thing [00:13:00] exists or not. So going back to what you're just saying, that we can't always change our circumstances, but if you can change the way you think about those circumstances, there can be considerable relief.

Taylor Miller: And that felt encouraging because there are so many times when we can't change our circumstances. 

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, and I actually I want to go back to what you said about I didn't think I could be a person. I had to be a professional and That for me just keeps going in my head because I think that's very common in our profession Is we have to put on this professional face?

Megan Sprinkle: When ultimately I think sometimes we are a better professional when we can embrace the human behind it So, how did you work through that and understand, oh no, there is a space, in fact, a very successful space for me to be the human? 

Taylor Miller: I love this question because [00:14:00] it, it focuses on one of my favorite topics when I'm speaking to veterinary professionals, and that is, what is your definition of success?

Taylor Miller: Because so much of medical training. teaches us that success is a smooth progression through physical exam, history, diagnostics, gathering all that information, getting the correct diagnosis, prescribing the effective, impactful medications, and having a successful outcome. And clearly, as we learn medicine, the science of medicine works on that kind of streamline.

Taylor Miller: That's how we learn all the pieces. But the art of medicine is so much more complicated. Sometimes we don't have a history, Sometimes a physical exam is this visual flash of a cat at the back of the room as it streaks under the refrigerator. We, we don't always get all the pieces. And we forget sometimes that if a successful outcome isn't possible, it's not because we are failing, necessarily.

Taylor Miller: It's because [00:15:00] circumstances do not allow for the optimal outcome. And figuring out what you were going to use as your internal focus for success or definition of success can shift the way practice feels, and for me, I am best at putting together stories. So in a room with clients, I can, and I take forever, so I'm not your speedy doctor, but I can take a history, and I can do whatever physical exam is possible, and I can look through old records, and I can piece together a story of this animal's health that helps me visualize what pieces could be most valuable to look at moving forward, and create a story for them moving forward.

Taylor Miller: And I'm really good at client communication and at calming fears and at explaining things in a way that helps, you know, helps it all feel tangible. And that piece always felt less important in a very busy environment where efficiency was praised. [00:16:00] And that part is a very big skill of mine. I'm not a brilliant diagnostician.

Taylor Miller: I've got to look in books a lot. I have to look up dosages all the time. I can't remember the names of some of the diseases, even though I know how to manage the pet and the medical case. And so all of these pieces that felt important in school that I couldn't perform well in, Often made me feel in my early career like I was less than, that I wasn't as good a vet as a colleague who could rattle off all the things and calculate fluid rate in their head.

Taylor Miller: And I had to sit down with a piece of paper and really diagram it all out to make sure it was going to be right. And so I undervalued those pieces of self that weren't clinically relevant, as I thought about it then. And as I got further in, I realized that maybe, Maybe my cases weren't diagnosed as brilliantly or as quickly or as efficiently as my [00:17:00] colleagues, but my owners trusted me and would come back for a follow up.

Taylor Miller: And they learned things that allowed them to care for the next dog they had and the dog after that, because I was good at education. And they didn't get mad at me because I set up good expectations and that that was okay. Valuing those things was okay. But it took time because it didn't feel like our culture valued those things as much as I thought.

Taylor Miller: You I could for myself and choosing your own definition of success gives you the freedom to to show off your superpower and just because nobody else recognizes it, I take that back just because the dominant medical culture may not highlight that value as something to be praised doesn't mean that it doesn't have its own intrinsic value and that's something that I hope people can start finding for themselves is that piece that makes them spark and makes them shine and make [00:18:00] them different.

Taylor Miller: Transcribed That might not be the most classic examples of veterinary brilliance. 

Megan Sprinkle: And I think sometimes we can get in our own way if we focus too much on efficiency and aren't taking into account the other human beings around us, including the pet owner, because if we're just thinking about efficiency, the pet owner is not as fast.

Megan Sprinkle: They're not following. So, you know, we have to rely on them to be part of the picture because they have to be compliant, they have to come back for rechecks like you were talking about. And so, yeah, I can see that there, you really have to think about all of the parts that go into it. Yes, you may have some people that are really efficient.

Megan Sprinkle: You may have some people who are really good communicators. How can you all work together to make the total picture, right? And work as a team. And you talked about the, maybe not traditional, Ways of success and something we talked about in our pre call is this [00:19:00] combination of developing your professional identity, your mental health, and then how we approach what other people's expectations are.

Megan Sprinkle: How do we balance all that? So do you want to, that's a, that's a lot, but do you want to talk a little bit on that? 

Taylor Miller: Well, exactly. And I love that interface of expectation and then individual professional identity, because. It is harder to notice when other people's expectations of you are causing distress, or stress, or overwhelm, or dissonance, even, if they're asking something that doesn't feel right somehow to you, for whatever reason.

Taylor Miller: But unless you have a fairly clear idea of what is right for you, it may be harder to notice. That contrast or that disconnect, so in that process of professional development, the clearer you can get about what you [00:20:00] value most in your job, what you value most in yourself as a professional doing the job, the clarity that you get there will give you the tool to notice how you may or may not fit well with other colleagues, with a professional setting, or even with a group of clients.

Taylor Miller: It's certainly true that there are some clients who simply want you to tell them what to do. They want someone who's going to be directive and that makes them feel comfortable. And that dial is what they're looking for. And as we know, there are some clients who need to understand your reasoning behind all your choices in order to feel comfortable.

Taylor Miller: Comfortable. And we can, we can argue with both sides that, um, this kind of client makes me comfortable. This kind of client doesn't make me comfortable. But if we are very clear about our own communication style and have the ability to discuss with our client care team and say, Hey, these kinds of [00:21:00] clients, if you pair them with me, we're going to jive really well.

Taylor Miller: And everyone's going to be happy versus this type of client might be better off with, you know, with my colleague here. And everybody wins when we are able to, to align. And I know that's not very possible, and I know this sounds like a Perfect scenario that discounts all of the scheduling tricks and tips and things that are part of daily life.

Taylor Miller: But if we can focus on acknowledging the importance of these dynamics, then we won't lose opportunities where they aren't disruptive. There are plenty of times when we have no choice. It is the only four o'clock available. They have to come at four o'clock. But if there is a choice, Just deliberately acknowledging these dynamics will give us more, more of an opportunity to shine and more of an opportunity to care for pets in a way that really resonates with us, that become that passion part and not just the job part, which I think we lose sometimes and [00:22:00] that's 

Megan Sprinkle: hard.

Megan Sprinkle: And I think that is ultimately one of the more important things, the less warm fuzzy part is there's also a business case for it too, because if you can. See that communicate that and start to pair and it does take time because you don't always know what kind of client it's a new Client let's start to pair the client with the doctor.

Megan Sprinkle: You're gonna have happier clients They're gonna come back more and you have practice better medicine at the end of the day, too and I love that you're talking about this because When I spoke with Bill Wagner on a previous podcast, he actually talked about that, he talked about, especially the first few years after vet school, when you're a new doctor, you start to learn the type of doctor you are, and he talked about, because I kind of challenged him, I was like, well, how do you figure it out?

Megan Sprinkle: Like, how do you know? Your gifts are that, well, you start paying attention to the client that asks for you, like, which ones are the ones [00:23:00] that are asking to specifically see you and it's harder if you only have a one doctor practice, but we had multiple doctors practice, so you could tell the ones that were constantly asking for him were similarly to you.

Megan Sprinkle: They were the clients that wanted to get more of an explanation of what was going on. They wanted the doctor to take a little bit more time to walk them through things. And, you know, didn't shy away if they asked questions. And so he started to know where his gifts were by kind of watching that and observing that.

Megan Sprinkle: And I think you're right. I think when we can get an idea and even put words behind kind of where we shine, a lot easier to thrive, because one, you can kind of position yourself in that, not necessarily that you can get away from all things that are hard or that you don't like, right? Like there's always going to be something with the job.

Megan Sprinkle: But if you can kind of understand yourself and then [00:24:00] communicate that with work, I think again, everybody kind of thrives in the end. 

Taylor Miller: Yes. And I love that, that observation of noticing which clients ask. That is a really excellent piece of the puzzle. And another question that I like is, if I knew that I was going to be out of practice for a month, who would I want my favorite clients to go to to see them?

Taylor Miller: Because, Especially if in our head the script is, I should be this kind of doctor. We don't allow ourselves to see where we shine. If we're getting in our own way of noticing what it is about us that makes us special, if we can describe the kind of doctor we would want our favorite client to be taken care of while we're gone, our description of that doctor may help highlight for us what it is that we value about ourselves.

Taylor Miller: If we have trouble [00:25:00] verbalizing for ourselves what makes us cool or what's our superpower, describing somebody else will maybe give us those clues. 

Megan Sprinkle: It's a good observation because sometimes we don't want to feel like we're bragging or it's hard to look at ourselves in that light. The other tip that I give some people is if you're comfortable and you trust the person you're asking, ask people around work.

Megan Sprinkle: What do you feel like? Is maybe my strength, or if you had to pick what types of clients seem to do better with me, how would you describe that? And you can kind of get other people to give you some feedback that gives you the language and the words. And now, if you need to explain it, you can say, well, people tell me that.

Megan Sprinkle: So, it sounds a little bit better than, well, I, let me tell you how wonderful I am. So, yeah, I think that helps too. And man, when you hear somebody else say it, sometimes it gives you that extra [00:26:00] encouragement as well. And I'm speaking for myself because that is what's true for me. I'm a words of affirmation kind of person.

Megan Sprinkle: So when I hear that, not that I'm fishing for compliments, but you know, it does actually help a little bit, feel a little bit more confident and kind of get out of that imposter syndrome, which is also very common. 

Taylor Miller: So what you just described sparked a memory. When we're talking about humanistic type counseling, one of the keys to humanistic counseling, which is a more of a, a personal and relational style is accurate empathy.

Taylor Miller: And they specifically put in that. accurate piece to highlight the fact that anyone's grandmother can say, Oh, honey, I can tell that you're hurting and I'm so sorry, as a blanket wraparound statement, which does feel lovely and warm. But if you are able to articulate something you notice specific about somebody else's situation or personhood that shows that you see clearly who they are or what they're doing, [00:27:00] it resonates more.

Taylor Miller: End. I went through a phase, particularly early on in my clinic life, where in recognizing the amount of chaos and distress, I gave out compliments, and I tried to recognize everyone, you're doing an amazing job, you're doing an amazing job, but they were more grandmother level of, you're an amazing person, you're doing an amazing job, thank you, and eventually they're lovely, and they can just feel like platitudes sometimes, but if you are able to look around yourself and say, Oh my God, I So appreciate how you're able to restrain and make this happen every single time to, you know, no matter what kind of temperament this cat has.

Taylor Miller: I noticed that you not only can handle them well, but you don't do it with any more pressure than you need to. That specific noticing and highlighting of a talent that you can see repeatedly can hit home harder and become a way of lifting each other up and of helping [00:28:00] each other notice those superpowers and those talents and skills and pieces.

Taylor Miller: So. in a culture where we are trying to lift each other up and encourage each other to embrace those pieces that make us unique or that make us feel good about our job. Zooming in on those accurate, specific things can be more important than offering congratulations for being amazing, which is all still true, but it can highlight for someone who maybe hasn't thought about it for themselves yet.

Megan Sprinkle: Absolutely. It is definitely more appreciated when the Phrase or feedback is very specific and same thing with the, I don't want to call it the opposite, but when you could work on something as well, being able to be very specific with the opportunity is also really helpful than just saying. Man, you're lazy or man, you're not efficient, right?

Megan Sprinkle: Like that's not helpful. That just makes somebody feel [00:29:00] bad. If it can also be something a little bit more specific, that's workable. Like, okay, I understand exactly what you're talking about. It's something that maybe I can work on. Or, you know, figure out, so clear skies. 

Taylor Miller: I love that. And that specific example is also good because you take too long, or you need to hurry it up, or you need to be more efficient.

Taylor Miller: I heard this a lot. And because I wasn't in rooms with other clinicians, for a long time, I had this misunderstanding that everyone else was doing the same things I was, but just faster, or their word crafting was different. Oops. And it took a long time to realize that some of the things that I spent time on were kept in other rooms, which is not good or bad, there are plenty of different communication styles that are all amazing, but if someone had been able to say, I need you to choose the top three things [00:30:00] that's going on in this dog's physical and focus on those and ask the client to return if there's more than three concerns.

Taylor Miller: You mean the old dog with five lumps and cataracts and an ear infection and skin issues who's also limping that it's not reasonable to manage every single thing and talk about hypothyroidism in a 30 minute time slot. Okay, that's helpful. Not just be better, do better, but figuring out what it is that is preventing the efficiency that's required for the hospital flow well, because it is important for a hospital to be able to be on time for all of its appointments, but rather than just saying, go faster, what is it that's preventing you from fitting this into 30 minutes?

Taylor Miller: And is it something we need to eliminate, shift, change, adjust? How do we make it work in a constructive way that works with values rather than Telling you to be 

Megan Sprinkle: different. I love that. Especially [00:31:00] that last piece where you talked about like, how can we work on this? So to me, that's coming at it from a curious perspective, instead of just saying, you're not efficient.

Megan Sprinkle: Can you figure out how to hurry up? You know, that came from a, you know, I noticed that you are taking a little bit longer in the rooms than maybe some of the other doctors. Tell me how the exam is going. And then you figure out. Oh, you're very thorough. That's good. You know, help you speed up just a little bit.

Megan Sprinkle: Let prioritize, you know, what is the, the biggest complaint that the client has at the moment, and then we can focus on those and then note all the other issues, but then have a follow up appointment or something like that. But that's also much more approachable. Right. And I like how you said, and it's matching values, so you can say.

Megan Sprinkle: I respect that you really want to help the client understand what's going on, and we have clients who really value that too. So one way to be efficient, but also meet those values [00:32:00] and your, your gift of being very good at communicating this. Let's take one at a time and follow up. I think that allows everybody to highlight who they are.

Megan Sprinkle: So we need people who have different skills. That's important. It's just understanding how all of those skills can work together and everybody's values are met. 

Taylor Miller: Yeah. I'm hopeful that the longer we have an economy that allows veterinarians to have choices, the more we will have the opportunity to select where we work and have that selection.

Taylor Miller: Be based on elements of culture and value and, and fit in addition to where do I need to hire me on before I run out of rent money? 

Megan Sprinkle: Very good point. It's exciting that we actually have different options and choices when it comes to the type of environment that we work in. So for people who do like the quick, they can go into the faster paced hospitals that [00:33:00] work that way.

Megan Sprinkle: And then the people who like to be able to build better rapport with clients and be able to explain and educate and answer questions. They can kind of find their place where they can thrive. And also the clients will start to know. If they prefer a certain way, they'll go over there and that's better because that's what you want.

Megan Sprinkle: You want to partner the clients. You don't want to constantly be frustrated with each other, right? And so I think that's a great way of looking at it and not to stress anybody out about like finding the perfect hospital off the bat. Sometimes it still takes a little bit of time, but as you can start to learn more about yourself, you can.

Megan Sprinkle: Communicate that when you interview, and it will get a little bit easier as you go. 

Taylor Miller: And it allows you to ask questions in an interview that will highlight those elements of clinic culture that are more important for a good fit. For instance, Client communication appears to be our case study today, but I really value client [00:34:00] communication and education.

Taylor Miller: And if that is a top priority, it's helpful to be in a clinic in which all parts of a client's experience have that piece reinforced. And this means that there needs to be enough reception staff. Call up calls can happen. You know, there are some clinics who deprioritize the front staff because they want to spend more on the back staff.

Taylor Miller: And there's no way on earth that the receptionist can follow up on all the callbacks. It's just, it's not possible. So asking, you know, how often do you call back after a routine exam? We never do that. Okay, tell me why. Tell me more about that. Because I'm really interested in client communication and feedback and wraparound client experience.

Taylor Miller: And again, none of this is good or bad. It's simply match. So knowing what pieces you can use to highlight Transcribed Those aspects that will make you feel most supported in your clients feel most supported in the way you want [00:35:00] to it'll be a way that you can deliberately choose What will be your stresses and what won't be your stresses more clearly than just ending up in a place that overwhelms you 

Megan Sprinkle: and you're giving Me some great language, you know, we talked about things are not always black and white things are not necessarily right or wrong Avoiding the all or none thinking and so at one point, I was thinking, Oh, this is kind of like spectrum of care, but I've never loved that term and so now based off this conversation, I want to call it the art of care.

Taylor Miller: I love that. Yes. 

Megan Sprinkle: The spectrum of care makes it sound like there's a gradient, and that's not necessarily it either. It's the art of care. 

Taylor Miller: Yes, because there are clients who have busy enough lives that they need to be in and out in 20 minutes, and they can doctor Google all the things and all the keywords, and they can get home and figure it all out by themselves.

Taylor Miller: And what they need is efficiency and high level of clinical success. Amazing. We have people for whom that would [00:36:00] be the ideal matching and pairing. And then we have the family dog and all the kids come every time and it takes 15 minutes because you're blowing up gloves for the baby to play with and it's a family experience which may make some clinicians want to pull out their hair and others that's their jam and it'd be lovely if everyone got to match up.

Megan Sprinkle: And so I think we've talked a lot about probably the answer to this question, but I mean, you spent this time doing the master's program. You were really probably yourself changing through that process too. So feel free to add more about how you feel like it changed you. Or helped you, not necessarily change, but recognize, you know, the things that helped you thrive and what you were doing.

Megan Sprinkle: But also, how did you start to implement what you were learning within your practice? Because that same practice that was challenging, you stayed for quite a few years. So what were some of the things that you were implementing? It's a tricky 

Taylor Miller: one to answer because a lot of things happened in those years.

Taylor Miller: As I was finishing up my [00:37:00] counseling degree, I also lost my brother to suicide and became pregnant with twins. So there was A lot going on in my life. And I don't think in that particular phase, I was able to offer as much to others as maybe now would feel possible when I'm walking into relief jobs, the way I'm able to speak, I hope that you would hear back about this, you know, in a positive way, but I hope that the way I'm able to speak to my colleagues reflects what I've learned.

Taylor Miller: But at the time, it kept me from feeling like the restrictions on energy and emotion and time that I had to offer outward. Kept me from feeling like a failure. My education allowed me to notice that the, the emotional process of grief and physical limitations of pregnancy were human and that being human was okay.

Taylor Miller: And [00:38:00] that it was okay to ask for accommodation, despite the fact that it still made my skin itch to say, apparently I can't stand up during surgeries anymore. I guess I need a stool because. I get faint when I stand up and it felt weak and I was still able to ask and feel okay about it after that initial wiggle because self compassion was something that I was starting to practice and self compassion unfortunately is quite limited as a Maybe it's not limited.

Taylor Miller: Maybe that's the wrong phrase. It's not something that we hold up and encourage as part of medical culture. Medical culture is about self sacrifice, and the group is more important than the individual, and push through, and go, go, go. And it's not about listen to your needs. And slow down if you have to and say no when you need to.

Megan Sprinkle: I hope that's changing. [00:39:00] Exactly. And I, I will say now going through it, there's nothing quite as humbling as being pregnant. And probably motherhood too afterwards, but. 

Taylor Miller: Oh, the, the mom brain. I read a paper recently, and this is one of those things that my brain is just terrible about. I can never remember the name of the paper.

Taylor Miller: Or the author or the title in a way to give it legitimacy. But I remember reading a paper shortly after pregnancy that highlighted some of the ways in which hormones, et cetera, and sleep deprivation in particular, change our mental capacity in a very measurable way that is directly associated with pregnancy.

Taylor Miller: And so there was this validation of it's not just me. I'm not. Using pregnancy or motherhood as an excuse not to have these drug names on the tip of my tongue. This is a real phenomenon, and it will get better. 

Megan Sprinkle: You know, in 2020, you started doing more relief work. And also, at the same time, you founded your own consulting company called Thoughtful Life Counseling.[00:40:00] 

Megan Sprinkle: Which, I really like that name. Do you want to share more about, uh, either how you came by the name? I, for some reason, I really like memes. The thing is, Um, I like the stories behind them, but also just what you were thinking about in this, maybe not a full career pivot, but it was some career changes, now working full relief and then starting your own company.

Taylor Miller: Yeah, 

Megan Sprinkle: no, it's a complete career pivot. 

Taylor Miller: I would say I spend an average of a week out of every two months doing relief work in the veterinary sphere, and the rest of my time is now one on one mental health counseling. And I advertise and target caretakers in general. Veterinary professionals are obviously one big group of caretakers, but I work with a lot of medical professionals in the human sphere, and some first responders, and firefighter, veteran, people whose job description is often part of their persona and self identity.

Taylor Miller: Thank you. And [00:41:00] Whose job description asks for sacrifice of some kind, typically. And that's also when I got involved in NAMVI. So, Not One More Vet. And my hope is that by offering mental health services, coming from a perspective of having worked in that world, that I can translate some of the mental health concepts into actionable, actionable, work for people who are time limited, who don't have the same human resources departments that, you know, your accounting firm would have, where some of the recourse that people who are in different industries can rely on aren't always as accessible or don't feel as accessible sometimes in caretaking jobs because You can't just walk out at five if you've got an animal under anesthesia, you just can't.

Taylor Miller: It's very different. You can't stop halfway through a report and just come back to the report tomorrow. There are some [00:42:00] elements of caretaking jobs that don't follow enough rules, which means that some of the typical fixes, and there's that word again, some of the typical strategies don't apply. And so I hope I can translate some of those mental health concepts into legitimate tools for caretakers.

Taylor Miller: And explain things that most of us feel, but we all assume is just us. So things like the imposter phenomenon, or noticing how perfectionism impacts not only our mental health, but how we interact with our colleague. Or people pleasing, which I use my own, a definition that maybe doesn't align with our image of a childhood teacher's pet, but the habit of putting other people's needs, values, and priorities above your own.

Taylor Miller: What I consider people pleasing, and that's. Long term so destructive and we think that we're doing good by allowing other people's values, [00:43:00] priorities to come before ours in the end. It rarely serves anybody and boundaries. What that actually means in veterinary medicine and how to implement boundaries and what the definition of a boundary is.

Taylor Miller: This is not something that other people have to follow it. An if then statement. If you do this, then I do this. And that is within your control. And it doesn't stop the hard things from happening, but it pre communicates what your response will be, and that response can be protected. And so by reframing how we think about boundaries sometimes can give people power, and then helping with a sort of language.

Taylor Miller: How do you communicate those boundaries? Oh, before my mental health degree, I had zero ability to be confrontational or to use what I would now consider to be simply assertive language. And every single no I ever gave was followed by a three paragraph long explanation of why it was absolutely not possible, and I'm so sorry, and next time I'll try [00:44:00] harder, and I'm sorry it has to be no, and I feel guilty, and then there are usually tears as well.

Taylor Miller: And I've graduated all the way up to being able to say no as a complete sentence. Smile, and then of course the heart is still pounding, but, but at least being able to stop, which is a huge success. 

Megan Sprinkle: I want to quickly just comment when you said that not all places have HR and even for the places that do have HR, they're not counselors.

Megan Sprinkle: So still there, even if you are in industry where you have a humongous HR department, it's not always the same as. Talking with somebody about these things that take intentional work, too. So for those overachievers who like to work, there you go. Um, and, and you're worth it. You're worth working on those things.

Megan Sprinkle: And so I just wanted to emphasize that working with a counselor sometimes goes way beyond HR. This is something that you're doing, not only for you, but everybody [00:45:00] around you. You talked about how it impacts your relationships and your workings with other people, both at work, as well as at home. So these are such important things, and it's also interesting to hear us look at it from other professions as well, and kind of where we have similarities into, we probably don't think about ourselves with some similarities to veterans or firefighters, as you said, but I can believe that with people who do have this strong identity, and I think that's Connected to their job and how they have to remember the human again behind why are they so passionate about their job that may be more of the who you are than necessarily the actual job itself or the title or what people think it should look like.

Megan Sprinkle: I just want to thank you so much for that. And you talked about really wanting to give people tools to [00:46:00] implement and so that they have resources. It was actually, what you said was the spark to go do your master's was you were looking at your colleagues and worried about your colleagues. And, and hopefully you found that it was helpful for you and your colleagues.

Megan Sprinkle: But one of the things that we talked about earlier that I just loved, because a different perspective on the value of it was we talked about fear free. And how it actually helps the humans and not just the animals. That's great, too. We love it that it helps our animals, but that there's such a huge component and how it helps the humans in the process, too.

Megan Sprinkle: So did you want to share a little bit about that? Cause I think this kind of shows they may seem small, but they add up to this better culture of mental health and everything. So yeah, please share more about that. 

Taylor Miller: Oh, absolutely. And that's one of my favorite things to think about is because we're so often trying to find solutions, again, we're that solution oriented [00:47:00] mindset and training.

Taylor Miller: If something seems like a very small incremental improvement, we don't always access it or utilize it because it's not big enough to solve the problem, capital, capital letters. But if it helps. Add 5 percent of well being back into the culture, that's worth it, especially if you can find, you know, 10 things that each add a 5 percent value, and all of those things will add up to an astronomical change, and so it's really worth noticing the small places that little bits of help or intervention can improve, because each time you add one of those stepping stones in, um, They create a whole that is actually a lot more durable because it's made up of so many small pieces.

Taylor Miller: And one of those small pieces which we're remembering about fear free is the drop in noise in a clinic that is fear free based. Because We're not, theoretically, if we're working fear free, we don't have dogs that are barking, barking, [00:48:00] barking, barking, because they're quiet and they're resting. We don't have rattling cages and bumps and thumps as we wrestle animals.

Taylor Miller: All of that noise gets turned down. And for individuals who are introverts, who are overstimulated by a lot of, of noise and chaos, for anyone whose neurodiversity makes noise sensitivity a big component of stress, that will get taken care of just by the simple fact that our dogs are resting and not barking.

Taylor Miller: Which is amazing! We can also look at, and this is where I, I'm definitely not going to quote anything, but I still In fact, based on some of the review articles that I've read, there's gathering evidence that constant beeping, which is meant to prove to us that things are going well, we start tuning out all that beeping.

Taylor Miller: And so it's not actually providing us information that we can act on that improves outcomes. [00:49:00] If it's silent, and then suddenly a buzzer goes off, we're more likely to orient toward that sound, I would suspect, again, don't quote me on any of this, but challenging the value of constant noise, whether it is beeping, whether it is.

Taylor Miller: the radio on in the background. Sometimes a clinic will have a habit of just keeping music on in the background in the treatment area. And what we might not think about is that half of the people that ratchets up just their stress level a little bit by having constant background noise. And then there are some people for whom that background noise provides kind of an energy outlet.

Taylor Miller: So asking that question, who likes having music on? Who doesn't? And if we have a mixed bag, maybe there are some days that it's off and some days that it's on. But Noticing some of those sensory pieces that can shift a person's bandwidth for all the other things that we can't control. And when we have fear free pets, in the clinic that I was working in, I noticed that fear free [00:50:00] pets meant fewer scratches and fewer bites.

Taylor Miller: Which is a lovely safety piece to get to go into work with that I'm not going to be chewed up as much. And That takes the pressure down. And then there's the ethical and moral piece of, I don't like wrestling dogs and sitting on them. And it makes me feel bad because now they're afraid of me instead of getting to love me and, and we may throw that off as squishy, but all of those things add up in a way that allow us to feel like the type of professional we hoped we could be when we came in to the field.

Taylor Miller: So, Fear Free is an excellent example of multiple layers. And ways that we can improve our experience while also improving the dog's experience and owners love it because their dogs aren't afraid of us and their cats aren't afraid of us. It's just a huge win, win, win, win, win. 

Megan Sprinkle: Absolutely. And I think I've noticed too, that there's a threshold, you know, things start to mount.

Megan Sprinkle: And so back to what you were saying about those little [00:51:00] things that you can start taking down, you start taking things down away from that threshold that makes you just bigger. Panic. So I find like in times when I am naturally more stressed, I am more sound sensitive, those little things, it starts to really bump up against that threshold.

Megan Sprinkle: And so soundproofing the kennels. Fear free practicing that you talked about, just finding more comfortable chairs to sit in. Physically, you feel a little bit more comfortable because if you're hurting or you're in pain, that just adds another layer that gets you up to that threshold. And so I think maybe looking at it from that perspective, maybe people can really appreciate those themingly little things or things that aren't.

Megan Sprinkle: The solution to the problem, it actually could be really contributing to the solution or at least a better environment for everybody to be thriving in. So I thought that was so wonderful. And I have [00:52:00] loved talking to you so much. We have run out of time, but two, I think are really, really important things.

Megan Sprinkle: One, is there anything else that you have in your mind or heart that you want to share with the veterinary community? Mostly 

Taylor Miller: that if something doesn't feel like it's working, it's probably not and that that is an indication that something needs to change for you, whether it's big, whether it's small, but I think we get so used to discomfort that sometimes we don't notice that it is a signal to us to take to pay attention.

Taylor Miller: Because we're so used to pushing through and being stoic that we assume that it's always going to hurt. And maybe that doesn't have to be true. And maybe just ask that question, does that, does it have to be like this? Maybe the answer is no, and that would be exciting to 

Megan Sprinkle: consider that answer. Love that.

Megan Sprinkle: And finally, what is something that you are personally very grateful for? Oh, that is a fabulous question. 

Taylor Miller: If there weren't so many wonderful [00:53:00] people in veterinary medicine, it might have been tempting just to walk away. But. I think that the people who I have met in my career as a veterinarian, they keep me attached to this profession in a way that maybe all the other things wouldn't add up to, but I love the people who are attracted to our profession.

Taylor Miller: They're amazing. 

Megan Sprinkle: I hope you enjoyed this fascinating veterinary story. We can make an impact in so many places. Check out the show notes for lots of resources. Please make sure you are subscribed on your podcast app, subscribe on the YouTube channel, and follow me on LinkedIn, where I hang out the most.

Megan Sprinkle: You can contact me on LinkedIn, on the website at vetlifereimagined. com, and brand new is that you can text me. To send me a text message, find the link at the top of the show notes below that says, send us a text message. I want to thank our longtime sponsors, Fyre Consulting and Will Hughes, who support the podcast over on our hosting platform, Buzzsprout.

Megan Sprinkle: You can support the podcast [00:54:00] too, just check out the show notes for a link. And I hope to see you next time on Vet Life Reimagined.