What Every Vet Can Learn from a Dairy Veterinarian’s Career Journey (Michelle Schack)

From suburban San Francisco to one of the most influential dairy veterinarians in the country, Dr. Michelle Schack’s journey will inspire you to think bigger about your veterinary career.

Known online as the “DairyDoc,” Dr. Schack is a multi-species veterinarian, educator, and co-founder of DairyKind. In this episode, she shares how open-mindedness, strong networks, and saying “yes” to opportunities (even emus!) shaped her career.

Whether you work with cows, cats, or canines, you’ll come away with career lessons you can apply today.

Episode on YouTube

Dr. Quincy Hawley is leading the second annual Veterinary Burnout Preparedness Summit, a two-day virtual event focused on practical tools to help you thrive in veterinary medicine.

Join us November 21st and 22nd for 11 hours of RACE-approved CE. Use code SPRINKLE67VIP to get a VIP ticket with lifetime access to all of the recordings for just $67. Register here. 

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

Michelle Schack: [00:00:00] There are maybe other people like me who might have been interested in working on a farm, and if we can recruit some of those people and help them see that this is a possibility, this is a career choice that you could make, and just because you didn't grow up on a farm doesn't mean that you can't get a job here.

Megan Sprinkle: Welcome to Vet Life Reimagined. How does a girl from suburb San Francisco become one of the most influential dairy veterinarians? That's only part of today's story. Dr. Michelle Shack. Known to her substantial social media following as the Dairy Doc is a multi-species veterinarian educator, co-founder of the dairy education platform, dairy kind, and a champion of compassion driven agriculture.

She brings a rare blend of veterinary expertise, social media savvy, and educational innovation. In our conversation, she shares two of her core beliefs, the value of open-mindedness. The power of our professional networks, even if your focus [00:01:00] is in companion animals. Dr. Shaq's journey has , tremendous relevance.

She reminds us that no matter the species, dog, cat, horse, cow, or even emu, yes, you'll wanna hear that story. The veterinary profession thrives on connection, curiosity, and education. So let's jump into my conversation with Dr. Michelle Shack.

 When did you know that you were interested in veterinary medicine?

Michelle Schack: When I was a very small child, as long as I could remember, I was a very curious kid. So I was always asking, how does this work? Or how do these things work? And I, I always wanted to be a veterinarian and something else. Like I wanted to be a veterinarian and a firefighter. At one time. I wanted to be a veterinarian and a farmer.

At one time I wanted to be a veterinarian and a road builder ' cause I learned how roads are built. And so I was gonna be a veterinarian and a road builder. At one time. I, I can remember all these things and so many other careers came and went as I was just interested in the world around me. But veterinarian was , always a strong point in my [00:02:00] career future that I imagined for myself.

Megan Sprinkle: You are not the first person that I've heard say that, and I, I think maybe that goes to. The scientist in us too, that we're very curious about things and we, we like to understand how things work and uh, so maybe that's part of it. And the good thing is you can have lots of interest in, in this profession too.

So maybe, we'll, we'll get to talk to some of those. I don't think you build roads, but, we'll, we'll see. now you grew up, , not in agriculture. You grew up in, in suburbia, I think. Is that correct?

Michelle Schack: Yes.

Megan Sprinkle: Yes. So did you think mainly cat and dog when you were little?

Michelle Schack: Yes,

Megan Sprinkle: Okay.

Michelle Schack: thought I wanted to be a veterinarian, and the only veterinarians I had ever met were the veterinarians that we use for our dogs. And I don't think it ever crossed my mind that there were veterinarians for other species until I went to college because I just didn't interact with those other species.

And so it's. It wasn't a thought [00:03:00] in my mind. And then when I went to college, I got to work with a lot of different species and it was very cool to work with a lot of different veterinarians. And at that time I actually shadowed a dog and cat vet, and that was the first time I had done that. And I thought.

This is not for me. I don't wanna be in an office all day. And it was, it was a little bit of a, a moment where I had to really think about, this is something that I'd wanted to do my entire life. And I went to UC Davis for undergrad knowing they had a vet school there and hoping that going there would get me the experience to be able to get into vet school.

And, , I remember thinking, oh no, this is not what I wanna do. And, and so I started exploring other species through my animal science classes. I got exposed to livestock, but I also thought, well, , if I'm enjoying working with cattle, what else is there? I spent a summer working at a zoo. , I did a a week long trip working with sea lions. I did [00:04:00] some externships working with horses, and I just tried to get as many. different species under my belt as possible exposure to them at least. So I could see kind of what the lifestyles were like, because I think in veterinary medicine, as much as you wanna be a veterinarian, you have to consider the lifestyle.

Also, there's no matter what career you choose, there's so many different tracks you can take and different animals you can work with. But even within those, there's different schedules and on call or not and work from home or. Or be in an office or fast paced or slow paced or mobile or in a, clinic. There's so many different types of veterinary medicine and that lifestyle piece is a big part 'cause you have to enjoy what you're doing.

Megan Sprinkle: Amen. And so I, if I remember correctly, , you discovered that production medicine was something that you were interested in college and getting into that, vet school time and. You know, bringing that back up, the lifestyle [00:05:00] when you, , were saying, oh wow, production medicine is really cool.

What were you seeing about the lifestyle that was intriguing to you and anything else that directed you towards production medicine?

Michelle Schack: Well, I really liked the people. I, as much as I have thought all my life that I'm an animal person, I think I'm a people person and, and I really like the people that I work with, the farmers and ranchers do a great job, and their perspective and their outlook on things is different than if it was a pet.

They're a little more practical and they're weighing their decisions a little bit differently. And there's more at play too. It's not just, , one animal at a time, but you're looking at the herd overall as well as food safety. And those things were very interesting to me, have always been very interesting to me.

So I was really enjoying working with the animals, but also with the people. But then thinking about the lifestyle, I really like going [00:06:00] to one farm and devoting a hundred percent of my time to that farm. One at a time. And when I'm there, I'm working hard and doing everything I can on that farm for sometimes hours and hours and hours on end.

Like I might be at a farm for six or seven hours and that's my whole day is working on one farm. And then other days maybe I go to three different farms. But. I like to go there and spend as much time as I need and then dedicate that whole time to that farm and do everything I can at that time. And then I like the drive time in between.

I drive really far. I am in Arizona and the farms are not close together here, so I do. I do a lot of driving and I actually like that, although I don't love driving itself, it, it really kind of helps reset my mind and get ready for the next appointment or the next visit that I'm going to do and be able to prepare [00:07:00] and also kind of have that. Checkout time from the last appointment too. You know, I think that was one thing that I didn't like about small animal is seeing appointments every 15 minutes is very exhausting. And then you're still trying to sort of, you just get the results back from the last appointment while you're in the next appointment.

And, so I, I always felt like I wasn't getting that full level of care that I did on the farm. On the farms, I am able to really spend time and work with those animals and those people while I'm there, and then I get the follow up too because I'm not trying to schedule a follow up appointment. It's already scheduled because I'm there once a week or every other week.

So if we make a recommendation or we change something or we work on something on the farm or I point something out, then I know I'll be back to follow up on that and I don't have to hope that they schedule again. And that's really nice. That's something that I really like [00:08:00] working with large scale farms is those regular routine visits.

Megan Sprinkle: It's not something I I thought about either. And that really does allow you to build relationships with the people on the farm as well as probably the cows, although I know you work on herds that are like crazy big. So I dunno if you know every single cow, but like you, especially again with the people working you're, you're part of the team basically.

Um.

Michelle Schack: We're a big part of the team and I like that. And I will say we're very lucky. We have really good clients. That may not be the case everywhere, but, in, my area, our clientele really consider us part of the team, and that's just a joy to be able to do that. and then back to what you said about maybe not knowing every cow, what's interesting is there's always a few cows on each farm that I do know, and the herd has its own sort of characteristics.

Like some herds are more friendly than other herds that are a little more standoffish and some herds a re quick to get up and eat [00:09:00] in the mornings, and some herds are slow to get up to eat in the mornings, and there's different things and it just sort of depends on how the farmer has trained their animals and the routine on that farm, and the cows will respond to that.

So yeah, each each herd sort of has its personality, I would say.

Megan Sprinkle: That's really cool. Uh, well, backing up just a little bit, you know, back in vet school, 'cause I, I want people to kind of know like, what's the path? How do I get here? What does it look like? , You went into vet school. Interested in production medicine. I heard you say that you didn't actually know you were going to focus on cows until like later on.

And uc, Davis is one of those that tracks as well. So it was third year. I think that you start tracking your species of interest. And another thing that I heard you say on a podcast that I wanna bring up just to kind of give perspective is you said of your entire class four tracked.

Michelle Schack: Yes. For

Megan Sprinkle: [00:10:00] So

Michelle Schack: food animal,

Megan Sprinkle: food. Food, excuse me, because there's horses and another thing.

So food animal. So what was that like having such an intimate kind of group of, you know, colleagues that you were working with in vet school?

Michelle Schack: Oh my gosh, that's a great question. It was, that was the funnest time of my whole vet school. So I guess back to your original question, yes, I wanted to do production, animal, and medicine, but. I wasn't really sure I wanted to do dairy. I liked the lifestyle of working with large herds. I had lived at this swine facility and been the herd manager my last two years of undergrad, and I really loved pigs and I was very open to other species as well. And so I was, I was kind of open-minded, but I knew I liked the lifestyle of working with large herds and that production mindset. So it wasn't until my clinical year, it, during my clinical year, , we were able to schedule externships, uh, up [00:11:00] to six different two week externships. And so I took all six, but each one was a little bit different.

I did one dairy, I did one that was beef and small animal. I did one that was. Uh, all mixed, large animal, but more so equine. And I did a swine one. I did a camelid one. , I'm probably forgetting one, but I, I really tried to vary my externships because I wasn't exactly sure what type of medicine I wanted to do. It was interesting as, as much as I love pigs. And there's not really a lot of swine vets in California, so I didn't have exposure working with them as their veterinarian until that fourth year externship when I actually went to Iowa State. And it was a great experience, but it told me that that was not what I wanted to do.

And so I, I really used that final year to kind of put myself in these different job , lifestyles, and and situations, and [00:12:00] try out different things. And that was when I decided dairy was it for me. In school. Yes, there was four of us that tracked food, animal medicine and the way it worked at, Davis at the time, I guess I can't say if this is still true, but probably, , the first half of third year, the equine students and the food animal students were combined. So we did all large animal because we all should know enough about all the different species. Right. So that was a really good way to do it. And then that last half of third year was separated out, so the equine students, and then there was small animal students and then there was the food animal students. And, and there was a way to mix track and, and we did some courses together. You know, like every Friday we did a professional skills course and things like that. But during most of the days, there was just four of us in our classes and , that was absolutely the funnest [00:13:00] time of veterinary school because I was doing what I really loved.

I was loving every minute of it. It was so interesting. I knew a lot of it, but then I was building on the skills that I already knew. I was doing my small animal courses, I felt really behind because I had never teched and people who had worked in a small animal clinic or who had worked as a vet tech, like they had at least seen an anesthesia machine and I hadn't.

And so I felt like really behind. It was fine. I got caught up. You know, that's the point of school. But when I got to that food animal course, I was like, yes, this is my place. I know these things. I know the basics, so then I can build on them. And, and it was so fun. And the other three students that were with me, we all had a, a really good time.

All of our names started with M so we were the four M's. And all, all the professors knew us and it was just. It was a really, a really fun time and, , every single class was more of a discussion, [00:14:00] instead of being lectured at, we were right there asking questions and discussing things and delving deep into different areas as our interest popped up.

And that was really cool because it was a smaller group.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. The professors, did they talk about what life is like as a food animal veterinarian? Did they. Prepare you because I think, you know, especially when you're having very conversational based and, and there's only four of you, so it, it, you know, you're really building relationships with your professors and everybody too.

, What was their perspective, choosing that path as a career?

Michelle Schack: Yes. I loved our professors. We had really great food animal team, and , it was a lot of situational base, so they would talk about, okay, instead of just saying you have a. A goat that presents with, you know, an a lump on its side, they would say, okay, so you've been in the [00:15:00] car for this long, and then you drive up and, , you're here to see a goat, but the owner can't find the goat.

So now you're running through the field. And then, you know, and so they'd kind of put us in that situation so we could kind of imagine what it was like. that's. True story that's happened to me multiple times where I gotta chase down the animal and go find it and see if you can get it. , And so. That was really helpful. And they also did a lot of, some of them had clinical experience, some of them , they were, residents were teaching us. Some of them were from other countries, and they would talk about what it was like in the other country. And that was really interesting. so we got kind of a, a wide perspective and honestly, I, think there's this idea that food animal is always the same, but it depends what part of , the country you're living in. And then it also depends on what species you're working on, what your lifestyle is gonna be like.

It's somewhat similar. We're often mobile. We're driving farm to farm. We're seeing [00:16:00] animals. Like, if you're doing a lot of small hobby farms or backyard farms, you're not gonna be spending seven hours at one farm. I'm doing that because I'm seeing a herd that has 5,000 animals. So there's a, a difference depending on what type of farms you're working on, and then also what part of the country you're in. , And so they described a lot of different situations and that was helpful to think about.

Megan Sprinkle: No, I can believe that too. One of the podcasts I was listening to, he mentioned like Amish farms. So I mean like if you think about Northeast, I'm sure is very different from the middle of. Arizona, Arizona. Not to mention probably temperature differences, but yeah, I I can definitely imagine that. Now also, the difference between like a beef herd versus a dairy herd, is there a lot of differences there as well?

Michelle Schack: Definitely. So. Like this week I am going to [00:17:00] four different dairy farms, and then, tomorrow I'll be checking beef cows. And that's a herd that I go to it quarterly, so every four months, uh, or every three months I'm going there, checking on the cattle there, doing preg checks and whatever else needs to get done while I'm there. So that's a different. Style of medicine and of life than working with dairy cattle, for sure. 

Megan Sprinkle: are they seen a little bit differently, like by farmers? I guess? I don't know. Like

Michelle Schack: Yeah.

Megan Sprinkle: cattle a little more separated I didn't know if they have a different type of attachment or just the way they think about the animals

Michelle Schack: Uh, well,

it's interesting 'cause I hear a lot on social media. People want cows to live a more natural life and, uh, the beef cattle live a very natural life. They're out on the range and , somebody will ride a [00:18:00] horse around to check on the herd, but they're not being really like, closely examined daily like dairy cattle are.

Dairy cattle are fully examined several times a day because when they're brought into the milking barn and at that time. We're, we're assessing if they're lame, we're assessing their body condition, we're assessing their utter fill, we're assessing their milk, and all of these things are happening as they're brought into the milking parlor , and they're walked at least once a day as well by Health technicians on the farm. So they get closer exams and they are therefore friendlier because they're just more used to people. It's a training thing. So if you want cows to live the most natural life, then their most natural state is to be separated from people. They're prey animals and they don't want to go near people.

However, you can [00:19:00] train them to, to go near people, and that's what dairy cattle are. They are also bred for that docility. But beef cattle, we breed them to be really protective because they're out on the range and we need them to be able to fight back if a coyote comes around or something. So they're, they have some.

Some breed differences and some genetic differences that we actually select for, but I don't think they're seen by the farmer or rancher any differently. It's more just how. How we want them to be and how we want them to interact with people, so we're interacting with them a little bit differently. If the beef cattle are too friendly, then that can affect the how well they do out on the range. Away from people, right? We don't want them to be too reliant on people. We want them to be self-sufficient and if the dairy cattle are too wary of people then they can get hard to [00:20:00] move and they can be very stressed. Because they are handled multiple times a day and so we don't want cattle that are really, really afraid of people to be staying around in the milking herd because that's not a good life for her either. So it's more just how we interact with them based on what they are doing in their daily lives.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, well, I, I went to Auburn and there was no tracking. So we, we did everything all four years and my dairy rotation was one of my favorite rotations. And going to see the calves was like what I would do for fun. One. I didn't mind getting up in the morning. I don't know. It was just something neat about the routine and then, and how everything worked and there was like this very obvious like outcome from it, like the milk production and everything. And, and I agree. I think the people within those rotations were really fun to work with.

Like the professors, there's just a different kind of atmosphere. So I [00:21:00] did really enjoy that. And I also am glad to hear that you. You sound like you've had a lot of great mentorship through this process too, from school, but then going into your, the first practice, which I think is first and only practice maybe that you, you've been part of, that's awesome.

, You've been a vet for 10 years, so, , do you mind sharing a little bit about how you found the practice and what made it so special? 

Michelle Schack: Anytime I take students, I always encourage them to go to conferences 'cause that's how I found this job. They weren't advertising that they were hiring, but they were kind of open, always looking for the right person to join the team. And they weren't, they. In desperate need of someone.

And so they were sort of waiting to see if there was a good fit that came along. And I found this opportunity through someone I met at a conference. , And, uh, so I think that that networking is really, really important and it's. Especially in large animal, the many [00:22:00] large animal clinics don't advertise.

They do that exact thing. They're just sort of waiting for the right person to come along, or they're looking at past students that they've had. , Some do advertise, but there are many more that do not post jobs. They're just looking for the right person. So that networking is so important. I met Callie Willingham at, , the AABP conference my junior year. And then I went back my senior year and met her again and, I really liked her. I really connected with her and I thought, she seems like a great vet and I think her practice sounds really interesting. And I was looking for jobs on the West coast, so I called her and she said, we're not hiring right now, but we'll, we'll keep your information in mind. And then they called me back and they said, we want you to come out so we can work with you because we are interested maybe in hiring , and that was it. [00:23:00] I came out and I really connected with the whole team. Everybody was super nice and I loved what they were doing every day and their perspectives and The dedication they had working with their clients and that they were doing more than just preg checking cows. They were doing a lot more. I liked the consulting aspect and it just felt like a really good fit, and I had a few job offers, but when this job offer came through, I knew this was the right one for me. And I was very lucky. Like you said, a lot of people don't stay with their first practice, but I, I was very lucky to find such a good fit right away. And I've stayed with the practice and since bought into the practice and I'm a partner here now and it's just a pleasure. I, I am so happy that I did and that this opportunity came along.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. I think that is a very good call out is networking. No matter where you are in the profession, that is gonna come back to probably being a good piece of advice. So I, I [00:24:00] think that's great. And, you know, just something, and maybe this is me being naive, so I apologize if it is, but, , the fact that, , you also met another woman in the profession.

I, you know, it just kind of stood out to me too. , I think a lot of people probably think that this is something that more men might be attracted to. It's they're big animals, it's a physical job, and, and so if it's a, you know, a girl who's nervous about that aspect of things has that.

Ever worried you, like, you know, I think I, I heard, and this is weird that I keep remembering this, but this is what happens when you listen to podcasts is that you're, you're five four, so , I mean, you're not as short as me, but you're, you're also not, , six foot. So , what are some of your experiences about, you know, that, that maybe somebody might be worried about?

Michelle Schack: Yeah, there's definitely challenges to being a woman in this field, but honestly, I think there's challenges to being a man in this field too. Like everything comes with its pros and cons. Right. And but [00:25:00] what you said about mentorship. And support. That's really the key. So I, I was very lucky to join a practice that already had a vet who is a woman, and so everybody was used to it.

Nobody thought anything of it. She had shown them that women can do the job just as well as men, albeit, sometimes differently. we sometimes need to work differently to get the job done because. Uh, like my upper arm strength is not that of my partners who are men, and I'm not as tall as some of the other vets in my practice, but some men aren't tall either.

You know, like these physical attributes that make it a challenge, but they're physical attributes that make it a challenge. , It really has nothing to do with gender. And so, , I've been very lucky that the practice has been very supportive and the clients as well. And I think a big part of that is because the way it was paved for me. So I think being the first is probably hard sometimes, and I think in some areas of the country [00:26:00] and with certain people, you're gonna get more pushback than others, but. Usually once people see that a woman can do the job, then , that's it, that that's enough for them. They want the job to get done. And, , in my experience that if there's pushback because you're a woman, it usually is more of a fear that the job won't get done and. So really you just have to show them that you can do it, and that's gonna be a big part of it. , Now there's some people where you won't change into their mind. , 

the most challenging time for me as a woman in this field was when I was pregnant. So I've had two kids and that was a really challenging time, navigating being pregnant and, and then also having a newborn and this schedule and the physical nature of the job and the lifestyle.

That was a really hard time for me. , But. I made it through and here I am and I'm glad I did, and I, I made it with a lot of support.

Megan Sprinkle: [00:27:00] Yeah. Well, and you were, uh, doctor number nine too, so that's nice that you aren't like, you know, doc McDonald, it was the only,

Michelle Schack: Yes.

Megan Sprinkle: and you know, you're, you're the only one who's able to come if there's a need, so

Michelle Schack: we did

Megan Sprinkle: helpful.

Michelle Schack: sharing and covering each other when we need to, and that is a nice thing about being part of a larger practice where six of us now, and it's very good because we are able to cover call when we need to. Somebody's usually able to get there earlier than others. Today I was on call and I had to switch call for a few things and, and it was no big deal.

I just said, Hey, can somebody switch call for me? Somebody jumped right in and, and so there's always gonna be someone that can get there. And if, if I'm on call and I, I happen to be really far away from where the call comes in, I can send out a text, Hey, is anyone closer? And, and so we're a very good team and that's very helpful as [00:28:00] well.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. The other thing that stood out to me when I heard you. Describe your especially early experience was that they never made you go on a call by yourself to start with. And I think that speaks volumes. 'cause I, I've heard lots of horror stories of people where they're just like, alright, welcome to being a doctor.

, Here's your truck, have fun. And they seem to, , support you a lot better there. And I, I think a lot of it is just building your confidence. So do you have any fun memories from the, uh, kind of gaining your confidence your first year or two.

Michelle Schack: Yeah, there was a piece of advice given to me by one of the vets in the practice that stands out, and he said. There's a point where you know what to do and you have all the skills to do it, but what you need to know is what to do when something goes wrong. So which basically comes back to confidence.

You have to be able to not freak out if something goes wrong, [00:29:00] and you have to be able to calmly handle the situation. If it doesn't go the way the textbook says, it will go and. So building confidence is a big part of that. Definitely. My practice was very supportive, so I was always had someone else on call with me. First we always went together and then when they felt like I was ready to handle it alone, I would go and then they would, they would come shortly after to see where I was at. And then after that I had basically a backup. So I was on call, but I had someone that I could call and they knew they were on call for me, and they would come out if I said, Hey, I'm stuck.

I don't know what to do in this case or whatever, then they would come out and, and then eventually I was on my own. But that was not until I was ready and even then I was still able to call around and find someone that would help talk me through a situation or come out if I needed them to, because they were a very supportive team. And that was really much appreciated by me.

I. I [00:30:00] think it was good for my confidence, but it was also good for the clients to see as well. I think the clients really appreciated that. , I was never looked at as someone who couldn't do the job, or sometimes I was, I was the new vet and they knew sometimes I needed a little help, but they knew that the job would get done and if I couldn't do it, someone else would be there.

And so they still had a lot of faith in us as a practice.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. Now you don't have technicians that ride with you, do you?

Michelle Schack: No.

Megan Sprinkle: Just you, so I mean, do you kind of leverage whoever is at the farm if, if you need a hand, is is it the, the farmer and the, and the, I say farmer, I don't know if that's really the title that they use at some of these big farms. they're probably have like much fancier titles.

But, , are you like literally on your own or , if you need help, do you just pull in somebody who is a staff?

Michelle Schack: There is always someone there to help us, and the people working on these farms are very well [00:31:00] trained. We do a lot of training. The farmers do a lot of training. There is a lot of training that happens and they're able to handle most basic emergencies. They're animal health. Technicians, basically not certified, but they're, they are very knowledgeable.

Many of them have way more experience than I do handling these basic emergencies. And then we get called in when things are really bad, uh, if it's beyond their control or they need medicines that they don't have. Things like that. So. There's always someone that's very knowledgeable on the farm that is able to, to help in any way do what we need them to do to get the job done. And they're usually right there waiting the, the others in my practice always joke that when I show up, I always have six people helping me. And when they show up, they're, they've got one or two people because they're like, maybe it is good to be a woman in this field. everybody's very helpful to [00:32:00] me and I appreciate that.

Um, but sometimes I have to tell them, no, I don't need help. 'cause sometimes I have to tell people to back off. Like, I, it's fine. I got this. You know, because too many hands in the kitchen can, can cause a problem. So. So, um, yes, the answer to your question is I always have help and if I don't have help, if I show up and, and it's a problem that I can't handle on my own, I can make a quick phone call and the farmer will send help. So I'm never left alone, which is good because these animals are big and you need to have multiple people to help make sure that you're being safe.

Megan Sprinkle: Exactly. Safety. Well, going back to training, 'cause you, you started up the company Dairy Kind, , and that is an education platform. So around education, do you mind sharing the story of, of how you started that?

Michelle Schack: Yes. Dairy farms have to go through a lot of training. They have multiple audits, evaluations that they go through per year, [00:33:00] and a big part of each of those is training. And we, as the veterinarians, were doing a lot of that training. We would hold classes, we would have group trainings where everybody would get together from a certain department on the dairy, maybe all of the maternity technicians, and we would talk about maternity signs of labor and how to help if needed and when to call the veterinarian.

Things like that. And that was a lot of fun. And I still do that and I, I love that part of my job. But we realized that we're not there every day and we can't be there every day, and yet they're hiring every day. And there was this gap there that people weren't able to be formally trained immediately. They would get the on-the-job training, but they really should be getting very clear expectations and have some formal foundational training from day one. And then the audits and, and evaluations that they go through require annual training as well. And so trying to track that. When was the last time we did a training?

You know, it [00:34:00] was getting to be a challenge because there's a lot of people and there's a lot of different requirements. So , we really just saw a need for, a system that helped deliver training , and then we created dairy kind based on that need. There are seven of us veterinarians that own dairy kind.

We have developed over 45 different training modules based on animal welfare, standard of care, best practices within dairy farming on common procedures that they do,

 as well as safety trainings And then that is accessible to them on their mobile device, in their native language at any time so that they can start training and get that basic foundation. And then we as a veterinarians can still come in and do the trainings that we were doing, but we're building upon that. So now we're able to, say, okay, you have a basic understanding of colostrum and what colostrum [00:35:00] is and why it's important. So now we're gonna talk about the protocols that we as a veterinarians have written for this farm.

So we can do some more specific training. Talk about, okay, this is the equipment we use on this farm. This is the facilities that we're using, and this is the protocols that we've written. This is the expectations, but it's a really nice way to deliver that training more immediately and fill that gap in training needs.

Megan Sprinkle: . It also makes me think, you know, could this be good for other audiences? Something you shared with me in our pre-call, it just really stood out, was that, you know, you talked about sometimes you're driving three, four hours to a farm. Arm, and you mentioned that sometimes you pass veterinary clinics on those drives.

, And so there is an opportunity to address access for care for these small animal clinics who are much closer to some of these different species of animals that, I mean, [00:36:00] even if you did track, you got a little bit of, of a education on them , but, , is that something that.

Maybe this program could either be used for, or is that maybe a future direction you might go to, to help, you know, small animal veterinarians who are out there, who have the ability to help some of these animals feel a little bit more confident working with them.

Michelle Schack: Yeah, we don't have a lot of modules based on veterinary procedures. It's more, . Like we have one on Stockmanship, we have one on maternity, we have one on lameness, common things that are happening on farms, and I think I see it more as an opportunity to get people that are interested in working on a farm or are looking for a job, some basic training so that they can get that job or they can be more qualified to do the things of that job because. There's a definitely a labor shortage on dairy farms [00:37:00] across the United States. It's very hard to find people to come work on dairy farms and, and then to get them to stay with the high turnover rates. I think we need to be expanding our reach and looking outwards to more areas like how many. many high schoolers in the United States think of working on a dairy farm as a possible career path?

Not very many. Maybe some ag students or maybe people that grew up on a dairy, but it is not the responsibility of people within agriculture to feed the whole world, uh, without any help from anyone else, right? There are maybe other people like me who might have been interested in working on a farm, and if we can recruit some of those people and help them.

See that this is a possibility, this is a career choice that you could make. And just because you didn't grow up on a farm doesn't mean that you can't get a job here. , I think that there's a [00:38:00] lot of power in that. Um, back to your question about accessibility of care, I do think that there is a lot of opportunity for small animal veterinarians to be able to provide some basic care in rural areas. If there is not a vet in the area, as a small animal veterinarian, you know how to cast a broken leg. You know how to fix up wounds if a sheep got attacked by a dog, which happens more often than you think. And now you have an owner with a bunch of sheep that have wounds, dog bites, And they need to be sewn up and they need to be assessed and they need to be lavage and, and so can the small animal veterinarian help fill that need for those very rural areas?

I think so. And I think that they can access the kind of education that you're talking about through the different organizations. Like AABP is for bovine practitioners, but there's [00:39:00] ASRP for small ruminant practitioners. There's AEP for equine practitioners. I don't think you should do things outside of your scope if you have zero training on it, maybe you shouldn't be floating a horse's teeth, but you could go and get that training. You know, you learned it in school, the basics of it. So you can refresh that. Ride along with a veterinarian in the area and help improve access to care. I, I think that we need to work together though, as a profession as well.

You know, if that's something that. You're willing or interested in doing, talking to the other vets in your area. Maybe there's one vet that serves a whole county and , if you talk to them and they said, yeah, you know what? We really need someone to be willing to write health papers so I can be out doing the kind of more involved procedures. A small animal veterinarian can learn how to do that. , And so I think that communication within the industry too is what's gonna help fill that need.

Megan Sprinkle: [00:40:00] I definitely see the benefit of. Better communication among our profession too. 'cause again, I, I've seen comments from people within our profession that just kind of shock me that they would say that, um,

Michelle Schack: Yeah.

Megan Sprinkle: large animal medicine. You know? So I think the more that we can understand and support each other, it's a great starting place.

Right. , And, and even on a one health perspective, you know, all animals. Have a one health perspective. And, and I think the more that we can understand that and see the potential, , wherever there's an animal, veterinarians need to be.

Michelle Schack: Yeah, well, I mean, I go to some , sheep and goat places that are smaller and they need veterinary care just as much as these bigger places, Many of them would be willing to haul their [00:41:00] animals in to a clinic. So if that's something that a clinic is open to, just being open to, yeah, you need a goat euthanized, I can do that.

Because you can, as a small animal veterinarian, that is something that you can do. You may need to ask around and, and make sure your dosages are right and things like that. But you have the skills to do it. , And so I think people are very quick to just say, well, that's not the species I work with, so no, I won't do that. , But there just is a shortage of veterinarians. And, we may need to be more open-minded. I mean, I right now have a, a client that has goats. and. Then they got some EMU and they said, can you be my EMU vet? And I said, oh, I'm not an EMU vet. And they said, well, there is no EMU vet.

We've been asking around and nobody's willing to see our emu. And I said, well, I guess I'm an EMU vet. You know, I, I was very upfront with them. I, I don't know that much about emu, but I can [00:42:00] learn. And they said, great, we'll learn together. 'cause they were also new to emu. And now I'm an EMU vet and I have reached out to some professors at some different universities and the EMU organizations, and I've done some CE and so I know some basic EMU care, but that's just an example.

I. I mean, I don't wanna be a full-time emu vet, but these species didn't have anyone. They had nobody, and I don't wanna say, well, too bad then you can't have any veterinary care. Because I have gone out there and sewed up wounds and I have investigated some problems that they've had and I, I have advised them on nutrition and things like that because I have access to some different information than they have.

And I may not be an expert, but I can help connect them with the right people. I can learn some things and then teach them what I've learned and, [00:43:00] and that's better than nothing. Right? And, and so we need to remember that all animals, like you said, need healthcare. And that may mean that we need to be more open-minded to what animals we're willing to serve.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, and I'm sure they're really appreciative

Michelle Schack: Yeah,

Megan Sprinkle: for anything that you give. I, I mean.

Michelle Schack: Yeah.

Megan Sprinkle: I

they were very well aware that there was nobody who was an EMU vet and the fact that you went and looked up information or went and asked some connection that you know through, again, this networking that, that is so important to do. Um, I'm sure they're extremely appreciative for anything that you do and, and that can be really rewarding.

Michelle Schack: And we're not alone. Especially I think in large animal, when you're just driving around in your truck and you are alone, you feel kind of alone. But we're not, you know, one of the connections that I made is I, I bought a book about emu [00:44:00] and. It was THE book about emu and and when I looked up the author, he's a professor at one of the veterinary schools.

So then I just emailed him and I said, Hey, I bought your book and I've been reading, but I have these questions. And he was super nice and he emailed me back and now we email quite regularly about these emu and that's just an example. We, do have resources. There are people willing to help and the veterinary profession I think, is very friendly and open to other veterinarians and helping advise people. And there are resources out there, so we can't forget that, that, , even on days that we feel alone or we feel like maybe we've messed up a case or we don't know what to do with a case, reach out to colleagues, reach out to organizations, look things up. , The help and support is there, but sometimes you just have to go look for it.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. Oh, I completely agree. That's my experience as well, , especially if you've, if you've called about [00:45:00] something that they're interested in. Oh, they're usually, oh, how much time do you have? Like, let's talk. , So they're usually very excited to chat about it and, , I'm so.

Glad that you are really trying to connect , education and , this area, , you have a huge social media following as well, and you shared that people really are curious where their food is and I. I see a huge disconnect with the average person and their food. And so the fact that, you know, watching what you do every day , it helps.

And you are a trustworthy source. . And so what has your experience been like jumping into social media, which probably a lot of people are terrified to, to do as well, but what is, what has, uh, it been like with social media?

Michelle Schack: It is been fun. I, the very first video I ever posted was on TikTok and I had to. [00:46:00] Have a Gen Z or help me set up my TikTok. 'cause I didn't really know what I was doing, but she helped me set it up and she was very nice. And now she's in vet school and she's gonna graduate soon. And it's cool , to see students grow up and, get inspired to work with, veterinary medicine. But she helped me set it up. And so I posted this first video and it was about how cows are milked in the milking parlor. Very first video, I had zero followers. It was on TikTok. And it got within days, 73,000 views. And I was like, oh, I guess, I guess people are interested in this. So now I'm committed. And I was excited to keep going.

So I kept going, posting, and I posted a little bit of different things every day. I tried some of the trendy stuff that didn't really work, and then I did a quiz. Can you guess if this animal is male or female? And I showed a bull, a steer, a heifer and a [00:47:00] cow, and so many people got it wrong.

Megan Sprinkle: Oh.

Michelle Schack: And then they started arguing the comments and that one got over a hundred thousand views. And it just, you know, it just. going, snowballed from there, and it's been really cool to see it grow and take off and to answer people's questions. I try to be really open-minded and respectful, and that would be my biggest piece of advice.

I see a lot of veterinarians online that are sort of making fun of people for not knowing or when they get some hate, which in agriculture we get a lot of animal activists that just disagree with farming as a whole, which is, that's an ethical opinion. That's fine. But, they can be pretty aggressive about it.

And that's hard. But , when those things come in, if we are gonna comment on their use of there and not there, and where they put the apostrophe. That's not really helping your case or helping the profession. We don't need to belittle [00:48:00] other people to make our point. I just ignore. Some of the comments that are really aggressive like that, or sometimes I'll engage, but kind of pick out one piece and say, Hey, let me tell you about this a little bit more.

'cause it doesn't sound like you understand it very well. And when you stay really respectful, that's gonna keep a good name for the profession. I do think veterinarians are a trusted source and are seen as a third party, and they're seen as committed to animal welfare and these things that are, are very important to the public. But there's also an idea that veterinary care is overpriced and that veterinarians just want money and things like that. So we, I think we have a, heavy responsibility that we need to present the profession as positive and present it as respectful and make sure we're keeping a good name for veterinarians because we have the public trust, but we could lose it and I don't want that to happen.

[00:49:00] So staying respectful and kind of as a third party is very important.

Megan Sprinkle: I completely agree and I, I think we're seeing that, um. Now it is that we are starting to lose a little bit of trust as people do more research and, and have stronger opinions. And if we aren't able to be open and good listeners and work with them, I, it's very easy to start turning people away, not to mention that cost of care is going up so that they're having more and more reasons to, to walk away.

So , I like that to be good representation of the profession as a whole. Yeah. I know that sounds like a huge responsibility, but we, we do our part, , each person and, and I think we'll, we'll do pretty well.

Michelle Schack: Yeah, and on my side, I really enjoy helping people understand what goes on on the farms because many people, like I as a kid, never had the opportunity to really engage with [00:50:00] farms at all, and being able to hear it from a veterinarian I think is important, and then help people feel more confident in their food choices. I'm not here to convince anyone that they have to drink a certain type of milk, but I want them to think critically about the choices they're making and make informed choices and not just buy one thing over another based on some fear tactics that are in the media or in marketing. It's important, I think, for people to have trust in the food that they buy and to make these decisions based on facts and not based on emotion. So I try to talk about labels and milk and how you make your choices and things like that as well. As well as give a little glimpse of common procedures on the farm, common myths that I hear, maybe just a snippet of my day. And I, I do think those things help people feel more comfortable with modern farming because it's, it's different than [00:51:00] what's pictured in the storybooks, and that's, that's a whole separate conversation.

But just because it's different doesn't mean it's bad. So I enjoy telling the truth about what is happening on farms that I go to and helping people see that there are really great things being done in the dairy industry.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, well, time has just flown by. before I ask my final question, is there anything that we haven't touched on that you wanna make sure to share with the veterinary community about your career path or anything from your perspective?

Michelle Schack: I think the biggest thing is just to be open-minded and, and to network really. There are so many connections to be had within the veterinary world, but then also outside of it, and those things will only make you better and stronger, and so. If we get too closed off in our own little worlds, we forget that [00:52:00] there's so much more to the world and it's important to connect with others that's why I'm so happy to be here with you today. I mean, you're in a totally different world than I am, and yet as we talk, we have so many commonalities. And those things are very important. Very important. So if we can all work together as a team and realize that we're all a little more connected than we realize, , and then being o open-minded to other areas of veterinary medicine, that's really important as well.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. I love that. Well, my last question is always, what is something that you're very grateful for right now?

Michelle Schack: Oh my gosh. Let's see, Something that I'm very grateful for right now is all of the support that I have. I have a lot of support. From my family, my husband, my kids. I have a lot of support from my practice. [00:53:00] And then I have outside support as well. I am, , the chair of the animal welfare committee at AABP, and I'm going to the AABP conference and every time I go to a conference like that in an organization, especially a veterinary medicine organization, I just feel so fulfilled and revived. I mean, looking around the room and seeing all of that support that I have is something that just fills my heart and I, I get a lot of opportunities too. I mean, I'm speaking at that conference and I'm very grateful for that opportunity to speak.

And I think all of that comes from the support that we have , for me, in my personal life, but then in our professional lives as well, I think we all have probably more support than we realized and we need to draw on that. I'm very grateful for all of the support I have in my life. 

Megan Sprinkle: . From suburb beginnings to leading the dairy world, Michelle's story proves that open-mindedness and the [00:54:00] right network can take your veterinary career places you never imagined. Vet Life Reimagined is reaching more veterinary professionals every week with guests from every corner of our profession, sharing their wisdom, their struggles, and their wins.

Think of each story as adding another tool in your . Toolbox. A special thank you to Dr. Kelly Cooper. Her consulting and speaking help veterinary teams thrive and her support makes conversations like today possible. One of the best ways to support the podcast is to make sure you follow and subscribe.

And even bigger is leaving a rating and review on your favorite platform. And if this conversation reminded you of someone, send them the episode, you never know when an action like that could be exactly what that person needed. Until next time, keep reimagining veterinary life and keep making it uniquely yours.