Veterinary Behavior, Burnout, and Building Your Career (Tabitha Kucera)

In this episode of Vet Life Reimagined, Tabitha Kucera, RVT, VTS (Behavior), KPA-CTP, CCBC —veterinary technician, behavior consultant, and founder of Chirrups and Chatter—shares her journey from general practice to specializing in behavior. We discuss veterinary burnout, building sustainable careers, and why behavior lies at the heart of the human–animal bond. Tabitha is also an award-winning educator, international consultant, and speaker.

Resources:

• Episode on YouTube
• Chirrups & Chatter website

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Transcript

tabitha kucera : [00:00:00] Now that I consult with hundreds of practices as a organizational consultant educator, it's made me so much more well-rounded. I've learned so much and I'm like, I wish I would've known this.

megan sprinkle: Welcome to Vet Life Reimagined. I recently saw a Reddit post from a veterinary technician about to make a change to a new clinic, and this change was terrifying her, despite all the great reasons she was making the shift. Change comes with some challenges, but to get to better, to grow yourself and your career, you have to make changes.

Our guest today implemented a lot of changes because she saw vet Tech as an evolving career. But change still made her nervous at times. Today I am joined by the well-known behavior expert Tabitha Kucera, a registered veterinary technician, certified cat behavior consultant, founder of Chirrups and Chatter, and a long list on her resume.

Tabitha's journey took her from rescuing stray animals in East Cleveland to working in general practice to [00:01:00] specializing in behavior and launching her own thriving business. We'll talk about how she turned a passion for behavior into a career path, why it's okay, and sometimes necessary to change practices to find the right fit and what it takes to build a sustainable career without losing yourself along the way. Tabitha also shares candid insights about burnout, mental health, and the importance of asking for help when you need it. If you've ever wondered how to expand your career beyond the box others put you in, or how to create a path that feels both rewarding and sustainable. You won't wanna miss this conversation, so let's get to the conversation with Tabitha Kucera.

When did you know you wanted to get into veterinary medicine?

tabitha--she-her-_1_09-08-2025_100746: Thank you so much. For having me, I'm so stoked. I always joke that I'm thankful that I knew what I wanted to do. Now, to be fair, not to my early twenties, but it's a lot of pressure to be like, I'm 18 and I need to know what I wanna do for the rest of my life. , And things are obviously, , [00:02:00] adaptive, but, , essentially, long story short, I grew up with so many animals.

, I grew up in East Cleveland where there weren't as many. Resources. So stray animals were very prevalent and uh, my mom is amazing and we took in everything. I had bunnies, turtles, cats, dogs. So I grew up with animals and just rescue, kind of being ingrained at a very young age. And then essentially, I went vegan when I was like.

18, we all learn things and and animal welfare was always something important to me. And then I actually met a vet tech, uh, I never, I love vets, but I had zero interest in being a veterinarian. I met a veterinary technician and I was like, what is this? Which is why it's so important that we spread awareness.

'cause I was. Not aware that that was a thing. Um, and I was [00:03:00] like, this is sick. I wanna do this forever. So I immediately am a doer. So I immediately started looking into schools and researching a bit and started to go to school. And while I was in school, I worked in animal welfare and worked at a cat and dog boarding facility.

And then thankfully I was like, I love this, and now it's my entire life. And I think. Many people can find this relatable. We all have a love hate relationship with vet med. The highs are super high and the lows are real low. , But I can't imagine honestly doing anything else.

megan-sprinkle_1_09-08-2025_100746: Yeah. So where did you meet the vet Tech?

tabitha--she-her-_1_09-08-2025_100746: It was actually at a rescue. Um, yeah, she was a registered vet tech, and I didn't, again, I wasn't even aware of that as a career path. I was young, right? I was like 20, 19 or 20. , and also I was not about college. Um, so high school was not fun for me. Like it wasn't the best. [00:04:00] The environment wasn't super conducive to learning.

I love learning now and school and teach all that, but I actually wanted to go to school to be a journalist, which is hilarious initially. because I like music a lot. I like live shows. I was an angsty, goth kid and I was like, I could go to shows and write about bands and I was young, everybody. Okay.

. And then I was already working in animal welfare, like volunteering and things. And literally as soon as I met her, it just instantly, again, I'm very, I feel thankful. I immediately was like it clicked and obviously it worked out 'cause it's been very long time that I've been in this field. It's crazy to think about.

Time flies.

megan-sprinkle_1_09-08-2025_100746: It does. No, I completely agree with you. I think for some reason little kids know about veterinarian, but they have no ideas. So many different opportunities and animal careers that they can do. And especially for someone who doesn't love [00:05:00] that academic type of environment that, uh, like veterinarian.

That's just more of that. So,

tabitha--she-her-_1_09-08-2025_100746: Yes.

megan-sprinkle_1_09-08-2025_100746: so being able to actually get hands-on and do patient care as the focus is, I definitely agree that we need to speak more to that as a career path. And so. You, you talked about looking at schools to do this and , so as you're getting it involved with the education part of it to, to get the credentials and everything, what was your perspective of being a veterinary technician? And did that change at all through school or like what, what was your,

tabitha--she-her-_1_09-08-2025_100746: Right. My idea.

megan-sprinkle_1_09-08-2025_100746: Yeah.

tabitha--she-her-_1_09-08-2025_100746: So it was interesting. So I was always planning on working in animal welfare in some respects, whether at first I actually thought I wanted to work in a shelter once I graduated, one thing I knew I wanted to do, there is a sanctuary in New York called Farm [00:06:00] Sanctuary. and there were internships available where you don't make money.

So I was like, I have to do this as a young person. Even then, it was a challenge. , But I already had in mind, again, young, early tech Tabitha. I was like, farm sanctuary. This is like my dream job. at the time. And I, I actually didn't go to my graduation 'cause I started the internship like immediately after.

, Finishing school. , And I ended up getting a job there, which was a adventure in its own right. But essentially when I first started, I was like, I wanna work at a farm sanctuary or in a rescue. I actually did my internship because at my tech school we had internships at a rescue, a lo, a local rescue.

So that was my intention. , But at the time. I was already thinking outside the box a little bit because I love GP and I did work in GP for over 10 years, but I think. [00:07:00] That was, I was already in the animal welfare world, in farm sanctuary spaces out prior to school, but I don't know if that would've been introduced to me in, in tech school, if that makes sense.

, I think it's getting better, and I'm actually speaking at a tech school tomorrow to talk about the opportunities and how amazing we are because I think even at, well, my school was great, but nothing was mentioned about vts. Maybe a little bit of emergency, , or possibly working in a specialty hospital.

But even that wasn't really, really discussed much. But again, I, I was like, I wanna work at Farm Sanctuary and I wanna work with farm animals. , And it was great 'cause I did, uh, I was there for a year and a half, two years, and it was. Taking care of 500. It was, it was an adventure. It was an interesting first job out of tech school for sure.

I don't regret it, but it was, , it was a lot for sure.

megan-sprinkle_1_09-08-2025_100746: That's a lot of animals.

tabitha--she-her-_1_09-08-2025_100746: Yeah,

megan-sprinkle_1_09-08-2025_100746: So how, did you get into general practice then?

tabitha--she-her-_1_09-08-2025_100746: so I [00:08:00] actually came home 'cause it was in New York, so I moved there and, . There were real talks and challenges with management, and even young Tabitha knew that, which I'm so proud of myself. I would've definitely noticed it earlier as an older person that's more experienced. , So I ended up leaving due to that.

, And then I was like, well, I love general practice. So then I started in general practice and worked at my first practice for about two years, and then I probably. Change practices every two to three years. , Just because opportunities for advancement, all of that stuff was really important to me and that wasn't always offered.

And also, I only was comfortable working at progressive animal hospitals even before I knew about behavior or handling as well. 'cause again, we aren't really set up for success when it comes to handling. I really wanted to work at a practice that practices [00:09:00] progressive medicine. So most practices I worked at, I had to drive like 45 minutes to, and then 45 minutes home.

But, , they were all really, really great experiences and I was in GP for over 10 years full time.

megan-sprinkle_1_09-08-2025_100746: Yeah. Do you mind sharing a little bit about that? Because I recently saw somebody make a post and , she was a veterinarian technician. She was about to go to a different practice and she was freaking out. She said, I, I had been at one practice for super long, but of course it was toxic and like that. That change was so scary to her. And then I'm like, you, I'm like, know, shiny. , I mean, it's still all change is still challenging, but, you know, like I, I'm that person that I don't mind change. And, and if I see an opportunity that, you know, I, I think I need to take, I'm gonna take it. So can you speak to being able to. See that be okay with change. I'm sure you've had other veterinary [00:10:00] technicians talk about that, but I, I think it would be great to hear it from you.

tabitha--she-her-_1_09-08-2025_100746: That's a, a really good point. , Again, it's so weird to think about when I was first starting, , but I've always had really strong ethical convictions, like I've always been that girl. , And then the more you learn, 'cause that's another thing, right? I was attending conferences, I was volunteering at a rescue while I was in tech school.

While I was like, I really. Not that I recommend doing that, you should make time for yourself. But, um, I really immersed myself, , in the field. And although of course there was toxicity, burnout, all that classic stuff, , my colleagues, my support system and like continually doing CE empowered me to be like, I know this is not great.

And obviously I've gotten better at teaching and communication and implementing positive changes every practice. Right. But sometimes, , you recognize you're not a good fit. That's a professional way to say it. [00:11:00] Or again, like in many cases I'm like, I grew out of this practice. , 'Cause some places I left, they were, they were great.

They weren't necessarily now, the first practice I worked at, whoa, holy moly, toxicity and not kind, basic humane treatment of technicians. But after that, , they weren't, it wasn't that as much. It was just like, I know I wanna do this. And then by my third practice I was like, I wanna specialize. Like, I was very aware of my goals and I was very upfront and transparent.

And talked about how I, how it would benefit the owner in the hospital. So I wasn't even talking about it as like, this is beneficial for me. Which opportunities for advancement, empowering, supporting your staff is kind of important. but I think because of all of that empowerment from continuing to teach myself things, 'cause then it's, once you see things, you can't unsee it.

It's like what I say about pain or body language. Right. And [00:12:00] I talk about this all the time, education, especially body language education, you are so empowered that people can't broadly, casually say like the animal's fine or like blah, blah, blah. 'cause you're like, Hey, actually the evidence, like this is what I'm, so I think doing that really empowered me to make those scary jumps.

And then also after I did the scary jump, my learning history is. The next place was better. Right. And I don't think that's everyone's experience. , and also to be fair, I was getting more and more confident, more and more skills, which helped me be empowered. Like education is power, knowledge is power. , And also I think sometimes we, which I've even felt like this, I am very, uh, upfront with everything I have gone through.

And I think sometimes we're like, it's like this everywhere. And we kind of have some learned helplessness. That's something I, I commonly see with my vet tech [00:13:00] assistant, all my veterinary professional colleagues, because we're just like, it's like this everywhere. Why? Why would I? It's essentially learned helplessness, which is a bummer.

, And again, that love hate type relationship, which is why in some of my lectures I'm like, you should shadow oth other practices. , That shouldn't be a weird thing. And now that I consult with hundreds of practices, , as a organizational consultant and educator, it's made me so much more well-rounded.

I've learned so much from my, and I'm like, I wish I would've known this. Sometimes it was just even going to interviews. First off, worst case scenario, I'm getting interview skills. This is sick. , And I think each experience was less and less scary because my learning history was like, this place was better.

, My communication skills are probably growing, all of that lovely stuff, which also helps me set up for success in that practice. But I think the biggest takeaway change is scary. But , it isn't like that everywhere else. , And I try [00:14:00] to remind techs and vets of that, and also I understand some of us are, I, I totally recognize this.

We're like, we're so exhausted and burnt out and tired, and implementing positive changes almost feel impossible. And that's okay. , Because I also recognize being that person can take a lot of your energy and actually. Suck it out of you more. , But also I think the more of us advocating and normalizing healthy workplaces, um, the more we're going to set not only ourselves up, but our colleagues up for success.

Like to me, you should have a lunch. And I don't, I can sell this in multiple ways 'cause I've recognized. That even for myself, I've gotten better. But even for myself, like sometimes taking care of ourselves is not enough motivation. 'cause you have to find your learner's motivation, which bums me out about me and my colleagues, but we're caregivers.

So sometimes I'm [00:15:00] like, I'm not making this up, but you're more likely to make a mistake when your blood pressure's like you need to eat. , Or you have time to pee. Like all of these horrible narratives that I was. Part of, , that we have not only we've normalized in our field, so we're weird when we take a vacation.

Like you're punished for doing normal humane, like basic OSHA guidelines, job workers' rights stuff. Um, it's so dark when I word it like that, but that's kind of what happens.

megan-sprinkle_1_09-08-2025_100746: Yeah, it, it makes me think of truck drivers, right? Like they're only allowed to drive a certain amount of time or you know, before they have to sleep or whatever. Because you don't want somebody who is starved of sleep driving a big heavy thing on the road, right? So like same thing we we're. Taking care of patients , interacting with people all the whole time.

And [00:16:00] so, yeah, you need those basic things to make you a functional human being to do your job. but you're right that the culture is huge. , And it's not the same every place, and I think you have even more. Credibility because you are a external consultant who has seen more than the typical person has. And so you can really see that there's lots of different places.

And what may be good for one person may be good,

tabitha--she-her-_1_09-08-2025_100746: Right.

megan-sprinkle_1_09-08-2025_100746: for another, right? Like you have to go in and find, find your fit. . So thank you for sharing. You really broke that down very well. Uh, so I appreciate that. you know, you, you talked about a learner. You love to grow yourself and, , that probably helps when you're, , wanting to try something new as you're going to your career journey. there's. I don't know where the, the change was, but [00:17:00] you, you talked about discovering that you wanted to specialize and you were actually able to do that in general practice, which I know you say you, you like to talk about because I, I think a lot of people think if they're gonna specialize, they have to, you know, go to a. A university or do something super fancy and , that there are ways of doing it in different settings. Do you mind sharing a little bit of when you started to realize that you would really like to specialize and the need there? I.

tabitha--she-her-_1_09-08-2025_100746: Yeah, so it's actually interesting 'cause I've always wanted, again, this is a career. This was never, not a career 20-year-old Tabitha. This was a career. . Which is also something I think we need to scream from the rooftops for veterinary technicians and assistants. But I actually wanted to specialize in a anesthesia hilariously makes me wanna, uh, now, um, at first, 'cause I was, because I was registered and very experienced as a technician, in many cases I was a surgical technician [00:18:00] along with Right. Um, taking care of in-hospital patients, seeing appointments, , and I just anesthesia's a big part of your job when you're a surgical technician. and it's can be really scary and overwhelming even when you're experienced. I remember every surgery being like, my heart rate's up.

, So I, and I attended conferences where I was really empowered. , and then I actually had. VTS say some not kind things to me. And I know it's probably why go above and beyond to not be like that. , , and also I love to prove people wrong. Stubbornness is a positive trait in some cases.

, But essentially they told me there's no way I can do it in general practice. And they were probably coming from a good place, but like. Kind of abrasive and like acted like I insulted them by asking about it, even though I literally went up and reinforced the heck out of them and told them how much I enjoyed their lecture.

And I [00:19:00] remember that I, it surprisingly took me back a lot because this was very early stages. Right? And then, , essentially. A surgery can be a lot. And I had some negative experiences like I think all of these things just happen to happen at this, like not one thing. And then I met Sophia Yin, right? And learned about handling.

'cause I wanna do the best by my patients and although I know now behavior is literally everything, that's how I kind of got started. Better understanding body language and then getting more skilled at handling, which led me partially down to the path of behavior where I was like, oh my God, this is everything and this is something that gets me really, really excited.

, And then I started seeing connections. For example, I always talk about, I work with cats and dogs 'cause I know not as many people work with cats on my level. , But essentially we were meeting a lot of [00:20:00] cats and euthanizing a lot of cats same day and. To be fair, by the time the caregiver recognized the symptoms, the most humane thing to do was to euthanize the cat.

, But this happened more frequently than you know, which I'm sure many of us experience, which is why we talk about how important preventative care is in that meant for cats. But I remember being like, this sucks. Uh, 'cause and at first Youngme, you know, were like, oh, they should have taken them sooner and blah, blah, blah.

But like. Perspective. I was like, this caregiver's just like suffering. This caregiver's really struggling. I'm struggling. This vet is struggling. This is really, so I was like, what is happening? And I already had some behavior foundation and then I was like, oh, I wanna know the why. So then, uh, also behavior issues, right?

Like how soiling, now that I'm very skilled, I'm like, that is a fairly easy thing to manage, or prevent honestly, it, [00:21:00] it's really is. , But you know, those kinds of things can cause some pretty severe damage to the human animal bond and all that stuff. So I started looking more into behavior resources because I'm a doer and I was like, I want to learn more, but also provide, how can I make this somewhat better?

I remember as a vet tech, I have access. We have access to a lot more education than a caregiver or even animal welfare professionals. And I remember that they weren't great. Even Youngme was like, this is outdated, and this is on like a large org's website in vet med. And I was like, oh my. And then I had like a light bulb moment and it all came together and I was like, no wonder.

Cats are taken to a shelter. , and I realized there weren't resources even for professionals like ourselves. So I was like, oh my goodness.

And then from there, woo. Obviously behavior it. That was like the beginning of [00:22:00] the end where I was like, this is my favorite thing. I want this to be my life. And you know, but like I guess it's been like 10 years. Weird to think about. 10 years later I still can't imagine doing anything else. Like behavior is my jam for sure.

megan-sprinkle_1_09-08-2025_100746: Well, , it can be exciting, right? When you recognize such a huge need and you have the, the skills, the recognition, the drive to fill the need, that can be super exciting to start to work on. There are also some, sometimes barriers when you're the only one to recognize that and be the only one to like have all that passion go and do it. And I still think there's a huge gap both from the professional side as well as the pet parent side. And I, you know, you, you mentioned something that I like to harp on very much, and that is that human animal bond. Anything that gets in the way of that human animal bond a threat to the pet. [00:23:00] The more that we can address that.

And I still think behavior is one of the most crucial things. As I was preparing for this, I was even thinking about my own dog and how it is so hard to just walk her on a leash,

tabitha--she-her-_1_09-08-2025_100746: Yeah.

megan-sprinkle_1_09-08-2025_100746: I don't wanna walk her like it's hard, right? So like it, those of things which luckily you can recognize when they're super easy, but when you're in the middle of an and a pet owner or you don't have those resources to know that like it is like. you said, the pet owner is suffering, like everybody's suffering. Nobody is winning here. Uh, and so like as you, you're seeing this gap, you're seeing like, this is my jam. Like I, this is what I wanna do for my career. How does that start to evolve?

tabitha--she-her-_1_09-08-2025_100746: So I, again, I jumped in way, which is something I think vet professionals, whether it's a good or bad thing, I think it's a con, I'm obviously generalizing. . But I'm sharing [00:24:00] my experience, but also I have a lot of colleagues and friends we like go all in. So I was like, I got more into behavior, obviously I got more and more skilled at handling and then I was like, I need to look into credentials.

Like I, I started attending more veterinary conferences. , 'Cause thankfully there are, you know, I only got the week off and I had to use my PTO for ce, which is, I, I'm not even touching that right now. Um. So I would go to VMX every year and thankfully, you know, there were so many tracks and I'm really lucky that I learned from amazing, credentialed, evidence-based, , people like veterinary behaviorists and VTSs and other amazing credentialed trainers.

Like I'm really lucky. I think that I started with the evidence based, 'cause everyone has different paths. Right? , And I think that was a benefit and a bonus to being in the vet [00:25:00] med world. So essentially it started just how can I absorb everything possible? So I started reading textbooks, , which I recommend if you're into behavior, do this. so I started reading every single textbook.

Again, I was very lucky that I had access to awesome people, and I asked, I put myself out there, Hey, literally, do you have a book you recommend? So it wasn't like I was expecting people to mentor me and meet with me every week. I was just putting myself out there reinforcing people, getting evidence-based, great practical resources.

And of course, there were some bad ones I read too. You know, you learn and do things and then. When it came to behavior in the practice, it was not a problem for me to, to gain experience where again, I was by no means was I like as educated as I am now, but I was the most educated on behavior at the practice [00:26:00] right at that time.

, Which was a good thing actually. I would get called in for a lot of those patients. 'cause for example, if you have a challenging patient to handle, and also I was very skilled at cat handling, which even then was not as common. , So if you have a animal that's severely fearful of the vet, in some cases there are some underlying anxieties or behavior issues.

But also, I mean, there's that recent study that came out, I think I'll have to give you the study, but it was a huge sample size. And I think 99% of dogs had moderate to severe behavior, and the sample size was really big. I mean, I'm not surprised at all. , But again, behavior. So I kind of got thrown into it to it where it started with like people who came in who maybe wanted to declaw their cat or, , a house soiling case or a dog that was chewing up everything in the house.

Right. And I started. Being the tech, like "hey Tabitha, go in there". [00:27:00] 'Cause we all have our favorite things, which is great. , So I got a lot of experience that way, kind of just thrown in. And then also more severe things too, where we were doing the best with what we know. And I started building relationships with other behavior consultants, behavior professionals.

And then I started Karen Pryor Academy because again, I knew I wanted to VTS, so I. Obtained those credentials, which was intense. And then I did Susan Friedman this amazing, , PhD and it's an LLA class that's pretty in depth.

I did KPA, LLA, and worked full-time at the, yeah, don't recommend it, but I just fully immerse myself and then. At that point, I was a lot more skilled, as you can imagine. So I was seeing pretty severe cases in the practice where I was doing surgery and then inpatient care. And then I would stay after doing behavior calls.

[00:28:00] And if a client couldn't medicate their dog, like give ear meds, I would go in and talk for a quick three to five minutes, , after the appointment. To kind of go over the meds and then give them tips and talk to them through that. So, which is how I obtain my VTS 'cause you need a, a lot of hours. , And again, I, like you mentioned, I think a lot of people put up barriers as far as I can't do this in, and especially because that experience I had with that one VTS. And in GP, I'm not gonna lie, it's more challenging. , , but it was, I, I was living behavior. 'cause every case literally, , was behavior. So I was just thrown right in, um, to the point where I definitely got burnt out quickly. 'cause it was like fearful dog, fearful dog fearful dog. Or talk to this client, talk to this client, So I was at that point in my career, it's, I've been in GP for like 10 [00:29:00] years. I was A-K-P-A-C-T-P. Um, I was a certified cat behavior consultant. That's another thing I, I worked towards. So I, I had all this education, the credentials, , and I was already seeing pretty severe behavior cases and working with the vet team and, and I was like, I should start my own business, which is a whole separate, I don't even know how my brain went there, probably because I was like.

If there's a need for this and I, 'cause we all have imposter syndrome because to be fair, I had the skills to start my own business before that. , And I had the credentials and I had the experience, but it's really overwhelming to start your own business but also to feel like you're good enough to, smart enough to do that.

, So I actually started Chirrups and Chatter and started only seeing cats I would do it on Sundays , because that was my day off. In gp our practice was closed. So I started doing it on Sundays and seeing in-home consults. And then at this point I was overextended on, like I [00:30:00] said, I was working and then legit staying two hours after to do behavior.

again. I am thankful for the opportunity. I got all my hours, but it was a lot. , So I was like, whew. I was towards the end of the VTS where you need to have a skills list signed. And although I was very transparent, you know, there was , a bit of a, a lapse in support.

So I was like, you know, it's time for me to leave this practice. Right. And I started, and that's when I started writing contracts where I was like, let, hey, we're all adults. I have been super transparent and it still didn't work out. It kind of blew up in my face. So how can I fix this or, or make this easier for everyone involved?

And, , I worked at the last GP I worked at, which I, I still love them. And that's where I finished my VTS and I was, again, I was, I was like, I think I'm finally getting ready to, to leave GP. And some of it was the emotional. You know, real talk like burnout and things [00:31:00] like that. , But also leaving GP was really hard for me.

I probably should have left earlier 'cause again, I was in a place where I was skilled enough, I had a successful business. , But it was just terrifying. So I think it took me a little longer 'cause I was like, I won't be a vet tech. Like, it's something I genuinely now I'm like, what the heck, Tabitha. But at the time I was like really struggling.

, And the thing that pushed me over was the crying in the bathroom stuff. Like I was crying in the bathroom and I'm like, data Tabitha. , So that's what made me take the leap, leap, leap. , And then once I was doing Chirrups and Chatter full time, oh my, it like blew up and. All I did, and at this point I was putting like a little time into marketing.

Like I started a page and I was like, oh my goodness gracious. Uh, so it blew up and that's kind of what led me. And I started with behavior consults. , I was doing lectures at libraries when I [00:32:00] was in gp. . And then I started speaking on a bigger, and then I'm like, I'm gonna start offering organizational consulting.

And yeah, it's just woo went by quickly.

megan-sprinkle_1_09-08-2025_100746: Yeah. Oh goodness. So many questions,

tabitha--she-her-_1_09-08-2025_100746: I know that was a lot.

megan-sprinkle_1_09-08-2025_100746: No, no, no. This is great. you know when you were. Working towards your VTS and you're seeing so many cases, I'm curious how this hospital handled it. Did they charge extra for you to go in and do those consults, or was that like a freebie add-on?

It was like, oh, well, Tabitha's interested in that. She'll go and talk to the owner for an extra few minutes.

tabitha--she-her-_1_09-08-2025_100746: For example, like. House soiling, um, puppy stuff. So some preventative, some intervention. , And it was just part of like, Tabitha's gonna take that appointment. Like she's, I'm going to get the history. And ' cause again, I just kind of casually ask more open-ended questions. I focus more on different things just because of my experience.

So it was more [00:33:00] like, Hey, let's have that person, we know this is the chief complaint. Let's, she needs hours, so it started as that and then. Once it got a lot, I was seeing like victory visits, which are essentially, , visits for really, really fearful, like FAS, fear, anxiety, and stress if we're using the body or the body language score from fear free three and up.

Um, so I started doing classical counter conditioning desensitization, which, you know, a happy visit is like you come in, you have FAS one to two, it's more preventative, which is great victory visits where you need like a skilled behavior. So, and again, I'm a go-getter, so I wrote up the proposal. I was like, here's the cost.

This is what we could do. What do you think of this owner, right? Um, I tried to make it as easy for them as possible, , because again, not everyone understands the benefit of behavior, although all your patients are scared. But, um, you know, [00:34:00] so we worked together and that's when we started. Charging like for victory visits and actually doing some type of behavior consults, , towards the end.

And then at the last practice I worked at, we started with that where I was seeing victory visits like on weekends at the practice and then strategically working. 'cause one of the vets was really into behavior. Love that energy. So we would see the clients who had more behavior concerns. Or another vet would recognize like, Hey, I understand, you know, your dog biting you, isn't that it doesn't need to be that way.

Like we can help like unpack that. 'cause I love caregivers, but sometimes we all downplay behavior concerns or they don't, they just think this is the way it is. so towards the end at my practice and then the last practice I worked at, we were charging additionally for those services.

megan-sprinkle_1_09-08-2025_100746: Well that, yeah, that's kind of what I was wondering is like are, [00:35:00] and it sounds like some of these were intentionally coming for like the house

tabitha--she-her-_1_09-08-2025_100746: Yes.

megan-sprinkle_1_09-08-2025_100746: is the problem, this is why I'm here, so that makes sense. But then like you said, there's some people that just assume this is the way my dog is, and that's not really the primary complaint.

But as you are exploring the patient, you're realizing that this is a challenge. And so that, that's why I, I was curious if they just like freebie threw Tabitha in to, or, or was this. You know, a little more structured because I'm trying to think like how people can understand, how they can see things and make it a real career path because you went to, oh, I need to start my own business. Not everybody jumps that

tabitha--she-her-_1_09-08-2025_100746: Oh right.

megan-sprinkle_1_09-08-2025_100746: that fast. And it's like, no, like this is a, this is a business model. It's like, oh, people pay for this. And there's a lot of these cases, like, you know, you start to kind of figure out how this works and, and where it could be a sustainable

tabitha--she-her-_1_09-08-2025_100746: Oh yeah, I would love more. Um, because even after I left the [00:36:00] last practice, we, I left on very good terms, and I was actually still seeing cases with them. I would just go in on weekends, so I was more of a contractor.

megan-sprinkle_1_09-08-2025_100746: Right,

tabitha--she-her-_1_09-08-2025_100746: that point. , But there are so many opportunities to do this. 'cause again, I was doing behavioral full-time.

I was just also doing surgery and, and, um, it was just not sustainable. Plus I was doing kp. I don't know how I did that. Now that I look back, , it's like when I was in tech school, I worked two jobs. I don't know how, but you do what you gotta do. , But there are so many opportunities for.

Financial gain, but also , like if you're doing kitten, kindergarten or puppy socialization classes, first off, you're helping build a bond to your practice. , Secondly, you're making income. I mean, thirdly, the most important thing to me, right, is I'm setting that caregiver up for success to keep that animal and recognize normal behaviors.

'cause in many cases, especially with adolescents like. These animals are exhibiting [00:37:00] normal behaviors that the caregiver miss takes as like a behavior concern, although like play directed aggression or dogs chewing stuff, like that's something that I can easily help with and like with some tips, you know, or we could've easily, that would've been easily prevented in one puppy socialization class where we did our 10 minute, 15 minute chunk of a lecture for the part of the class.

Or again, victory visits are something that. A lot of veterinary technicians or vets can do behavior consults, right? Same thing. there are so many opportunities from a financial standpoint, but again, also strengthen the bond with them to your practice. Have them go to you for behavior so you can at least refer if it's out of your scope, respect, just like you would refer to a cardiologist or an oncologist.

We should be referring to credentialed, evidence-based animal welfare, positive behavior professionals instead of having clients [00:38:00] Google. Oh my goodness gracious. , So I, there's so many, it's, there's so many opportunities. I just did a pitch for this contest, this separate thing with, , Cleveland.

So it was for small businesses in general and. I talked about the underserved market of behavior, , which is why I've had a waiting list for three years. And like, you know, the, it's interesting because in animal welfare, not just in Ohio, but throughout the country, it is obvious not only through my experience, my friends' experiences, my colleagues' experiences, but also research that behavior is the biggest reason why animals are getting relinquished. , and lots of other things are happening. Yet there are so few resources and very few shelters. They may work with a person, but they don't work with a credentialed, evidence-based animal welfare positive, you know, which, whoa.

That's the other thing, yes, anyone can call themselves a cardiologist, but [00:39:00] thankfully they get called out sooner. Training behavior, literally anyone in their mind like can just say it. And then social media has actually kind of made that worse. , Which is why I think thankfully behavior is getting, like you said, we call it practicing vet med 'cause we're always improving and both of us have seen Whoa.

Which is why I love vet med, it's so addicting. 'cause we're always progressing and improving and it's, it's beautiful and it is getting a lot better as far as like. Handling is a skill, understanding body language, recognizing behavior like you refer to an oncologist, you refer to a VTS or a veterinary behaviorist or a behavior professional.

Like if it's a severe behavior issue, you're gonna do VTS, VB, or behavior consultant. If it's something like preventative, you know, you can refer to a trainer . But there are so many opportunities in your practice to offer, 'cause I have a colleague, well she's my friend, she went through the VTS with me and she did [00:40:00] hers working with an awesome VB and then she went back to GP and now she's doing behavior full-time.

I think she is on the floor once a week, but she's doing victory visits, cooperative care, and then working with a veterinarian there to do behavior consults. And that's her full-time gig. So, I mean, there's so many opportunities in GP and for your VTS if that's something you, it is not hard to get hours.

The, I mean, , there are challenges and finding appropriate support , but. I feel like I'm seeing way more cases than even a VB can really, , 'cause I'm in a GP I worked at a very fast paced clinic. There were three to four vets on staff. , Usually one like part-time or prn.

So four vets, , the cases are there that, that's for sure. Which is a positive to doing in a gp. And then, you know, , I would not change my, any of my experiences because it's made me who I am and. Even when it comes to [00:41:00] teaching, educating, like some of those times where I was like, this sucks and I wanna implement positive change, but I'm exhausted and I feel alone.

, I'm thankful for those experiences and now looking back, I'm like, I probably wasn't as alone as I felt. . It's interesting, , when you first start learning about something, like when you first start identifying chronic pain or seeing what fear and stress look like, really knowing it kind of like punches you in the face when other people don't recognize it. So it is kind of intense. , And I recognize that. , So just consider all of those things.

megan-sprinkle_1_09-08-2025_100746: Yeah, I could ask you so many different questions. So I, I want people to know how to find , the credential people, like the, the good resources and everything. And I think that's something you could probably send me and that we could

tabitha--she-her-_1_09-08-2025_100746: Yes, definitely.

megan-sprinkle_1_09-08-2025_100746: I wanna focus just for the last few minutes on a, [00:42:00] a couple of things and, and one of. Of that is there's a lot of opportunity. You're a person that soaks it all in, jumps all in you. You have podcasts, you're on podcasts, you speak, you do all these consulting. You run your own business. Like there's so many things for you to do. how do you. Choose. I don't like the word balance, you know, but how do you, how do you make a sustainable career for yourself and focus still on your mental health, because I know that is huge for you.

I think you said you, you bring it up at least a little bit in most of your talks. Um, it's something you've really worked on and had to work on, and I appreciate that honesty. So to kind of help people. You know, really create a very fun, a rewarding career path, but also take care of themselves. Like what did you learn and, and what do you tell people?

tabitha--she-her-_1_09-08-2025_100746: It's been a long path, and we have to remember, I think having the background in behavior, actually again, I feel like I had an extra bonus. , But progress isn't [00:43:00] linear, right? So throughout my time, , I mean, therapy's cool. Totally. If you can find the right fit. , But then also I think the biggest thing is I recognize my emotions and once you recognize your emotions, you have more control. We don't control of everything. , Also realizing that, coming to terms with that, which is something I've had to do. But for example, .

Like yesterday I went to a concert and , I was really irritable. Like, I was like, there's so many people. And I was feeling like icky and I was taking it in. 'cause I love, I'm extroverted, I love being around people. And I was like, girl, you tired? Like, you know, I just had a pretty serious conversation about some sad world things with my sister right before that. so like, I let my feeling, I feel my feelings. I don't hide them like I used to be like, I'm gonna just like go through. I didn't even, I used to think I was exhausted when actually I was going through like a depressive [00:44:00] stage and I didn't know it was right. So since I didn't rec, if you can't identify, which is what behavior is, I can't help.

Um, so I think being aware that we can't control everything, trying to be more aware of your emotions. Like for example, I was short with this tech. Girl, you haven't eaten in eight hours. You know what I mean? And once you start, you can see things in better control, your reactions be less reactive.

, All this beautiful stuff. I think that those are really good things. And then I think the biggest thing for me, which I'm still struggling with, 'cause when you have passion jobs, as everyone knows here, , uh, it, I, I mean it genuinely is very c hallenging, like I'm still working through it. 'cause again, like you said, I probably am overextended all the time, which I do not do not do that.

, But I have found hobbies outside of VetMed, which sounds cliche outside of like, when I listen to podcasts, I do not listen to Vet Med. I know we have them listen to these, [00:45:00] but like for me, I don't listen to, you know, I listen to comedy podcasts, like strategically. Um, I'm a trail runner, like I found running.

As a outlet, and I am always training for a race, so I usually have four to five runs a week that are scheduled as well as like workouts and even though I'm like, I don't have time, girl. Yes you do and you need to make time, and it took me a long time to get there. I used to always say like, we don't have time.

You, yes you do and you need to make time, or else, the reason I'm so productive is because I make time to rest, and rest for you Might be watching tv, it might be reading a book. For me, it's like going out with my friends, going to concerts, listening to music and trail running. Right. But I have a lot of those hobbies and I'm very thankful that I have an amazing support system.

Like my partner's great, my friends are great. , I know when to ask for help, like if I, like my cat recently passed away in the end of last year, and then there were some political things that happened and like [00:46:00] just, it was. I was not. Okay. , And I remember like, , these are normal feelings, right?

And I, I know it's gonna be better tomorrow. Like these are genuine things that I truly believe now. But I texted my best friend and said, girl, can you, I'm not okay. Like, I need someone with me right now and I'm so proud of myself. Like that's a huge, asking for help when you're struggling like that hard that in depth.

So like. I know that was a long-winded answer, but I think being aware of your emotions, finding tools that work for you, which may look different starting in a realistic space. Like I was like, I wanna do therapy and I'm gonna do all the things 'cause we're super extra in vet med, which I love, but my, my therapist was like.

We shape behavior. Like I know this, we start realistic goals and she's like, how about you just, let's focus on you drinking eight glasses of water a day and not bringing your laptop to bed. Like those were my starting points and now I haven't brought my girl. I'm not even working after a lab. Well, unless I'm cramming.

'cause we all procrastinate. [00:47:00] But in most cases, like I haven't brought my laptop to bed in like two years and that used to be my normal, like what? So yeah.

megan-sprinkle_1_09-08-2025_100746: I, I think that's so good to hear because like I, myself, I'm a suppressor and then all of a sudden it like. Whew.

tabitha--she-her-_1_09-08-2025_100746: Yes.

megan-sprinkle_1_09-08-2025_100746: know, and . So I think it's good to hear these things. Uh, and so thank you. And I also wanna comment 'cause I've listened to so many podcasts with you on, you are not always a runner.

There was one time when you're like, people who run are crazy.

tabitha--she-her-_1_09-08-2025_100746: Yes. I, it's so funny . Because again, with my, with the pandemic actually, , everyone was struggling. Again, predictability and structure help us feel safer, whether we're animal or human, and things were terrifying. So I was like, what can I control? And I was like, I know freaking working out, like helps or whatever.

But I also was like, this is too hard. So I was like, I need to hire someone. And I did a lot of research. I'm like, I'm not doing this. Pain is pain gain. Bs like [00:48:00] tough guy, like ugh, not science-based at all. So I did research and I found a trainer and I started with working out once a week and then twice a week.

And she's an ultra runner, like a hundred miler parties. And I was very transparent with her 'cause that's me. And I was like, girl just has up. I'm not gonna run. Don't ask me to run. I'm not gonna run. I hate running. And it's really interesting 'cause nature was always one of my favorite things. Of course, animals and nature.

And I used to hike 'cause I suffered with, you know, depression when I was younger and I would hike and it was amazing. And then I got so busy, which makes me sick to my stomach that I legit didn't go to a metro park for like years. So then I just started hiking again. 'cause I'm like, literally I can be severely over threshold and my heart, like it's something that instantly takes me down.

, So then I was like, as a joke, I listened to true crime and I was like, it wouldn't hurt to be able to run a little. And you know, I was like as a woman, so then I was like, I'll just run like one mile, two mile and then [00:49:00] within no joke, within five months I was running a 50 k. So it's so don't limit yourself.

We all gotta start somewhere that running one mile. I used to wanna cry and then running five miles is really hard. And then, you know, and now like long endurance running. , It does hurt. It's emotional and it, and I love it. Like I wanna be disgusting and sweaty and like feel, it's hard to explain, but like there's just something about it for me that really, really helps.

So that's a really good point. We all have to start somewhere. I wasn't starting with, I actually hated running.

megan-sprinkle_1_09-08-2025_100746: I, I think that's a good message to, to leave on is to, you never know until you

tabitha--she-her-_1_09-08-2025_100746: Yes.

megan-sprinkle_1_09-08-2025_100746: and, and always be willing to. Ask for help because I, I think that is also a huge, huge message to leave with and start with someone you trust. Do you know if it's a, a mental health professional? Do your research and understand that there's more than one.

tabitha--she-her-_1_09-08-2025_100746: Yes.

megan-sprinkle_1_09-08-2025_100746: like one, you know there are other [00:50:00] options. So I just wanna thank you so much for sharing your story, and we are out of time. So I, I have to end, but like I said, I can talk to you forever, so maybe we'll have you back on. Um, but very excited. On what you're doing. Thank you so much for everything and yeah, thank you so much for sharing.

tabitha--she-her-_1_09-08-2025_100746: Thank you so much for having me and help to spread awareness how amazing veterinary professionals are, and that we do not need to put ourselves in a box. , There's no reason for that, even though I know it could be terrifying at times. So thank you.

megan-sprinkle_1_09-08-2025_100746: I so love Tabitha's energy, passion, and contribution to growing veterinary medicine. There are a few takeaways from today's conversation. Veterinary careers don't have to fit in a box. You can combine your passions and create your own path. Behavior is central to the human animal bond, and there are more opportunities than many realize to build a career in this area.

And most importantly, taking care of yourself mentally and emotionally is just as critical as the [00:51:00] care you provide to your patients. If you'd like to learn more about Tabitha and her work Visit Chirrups and Chatter online or connect with her on social media. I also want to give a shout out to one of our platform supporters, Dr.

Kelly Cooper. A coach and consultant supporters help make this podcast possible. And if you found value in today's conversation, please follow the podcast. Leave a review and share it with your a colleague. It's the best way to help us continue bringing you inspiring voices in veterinary medicine. And remember.

Together, we can reimagine what's possible in veterinary life.