Veterinary Medicine at a Crossroads: Insights from a Pet Industry Insider (Candise Goodwin)

In this episode of Vet Life Reimagined, we sit down with Candise Goodwin, founder of Outlier Advisors and veteran of the pet and animal health industries. With decades of experience across startups, veterinary services, and global pet brands, Candise shares how vet med can grow and why now is the time to think bigger.

🎙️ You’ll learn:

• Why the veterinary profession is at a turning point
• What veterinary professionals need to keep in mind heading into 2026
• How to think beyond clinical care to shape the future of animal health

Resources:

• Video Episode on YouTube
• Outlier Advisors website

Vetsie, the AI-powered tool for veterinarians, made by veterinarians.  Learn more or apply at Vetsie.com and use promo code Vetlife to get your first month for just $1. 

Transcript

Candise Goodwin: [00:00:00] When I look at innovation, it's all around us, and I think that the companies have a role to play. The challenge is not all companies are treating it equally.

For the individual veterinarian, my hope and really advice is.

Megan Sprinkle: Welcome to Vet Life Reimagined. It's a new year and a busy conference season has started. It's the perfect time to explore new ideas, expand your network, and think bigger about your career and the future of the profession. That's why today's guest, Candise Goodwin is perfect to bring on Vet Life Reimagined right now.

Candise has worked across every corner of the field from launching tech platforms to advising investors to helping veterinarians turn their vision into action Today. She's the founder of Outlier Advisors, a strategy and marketing firm that's been helping businesses from startups to the largest companies in the industry make bold, thoughtful moves in the pet and veterinary industries.

Her career path is non-linear, entrepreneurial [00:01:00] and full of lessons that can help all of us think more strategically, whether you're building a business or trying to build a more meaningful career. Candise has a special behind the scenes vantage point and is very in touch with what's happening in the pet and vet worlds.

So listen closely. This conversation is inspiring. Practical and energizing with someone who truly sees what's possible in this profession and is helping others make it real. So let's get to the conversation with Candise Goodwin.

You kind of stumbled your way into veterinary

Candise Goodwin: Love it.

Megan Sprinkle: and I've interviewed several people who that has happened to. Before as well. So kind of backing up, even before you, met Vet Med, you grew up in Las Vegas

Candise Goodwin: Mm-hmm.

Megan Sprinkle: I know that you had an interest in medicine in general.

So do

Candise Goodwin: Mm-hmm.

Megan Sprinkle: a little bit about, , growing up and what got you interested in at least human, the human medicine [00:02:00] side.

Candise Goodwin: Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I grew up in Las Vegas, which is such a fascinating place to grow up. And in a lot of ways, , it's very unusual and I think at the time you don't realize it. Right. And so, , I grew up the youngest of five. , Very close with my siblings, but I think from the young age I realized that, , I didn't have a lot of expectations put on me, which was kind of freeing at the, like after the fact.

I think when you look back and you say, well, how did I get here? And stumbled is a perfect word, Megan. Like, I love that so much. 'cause it is. I don't think we talk enough about like what's real and I mean, stumbled is exactly the right word. , so I started, , in college actually as a business major.

I didn't really know what I wanted to do. I just knew my siblings. I went to college and it seemed like the right thing to do and so I went and I went in as a business major 'cause I figured, well, business is everywhere. And, and you know, it's funny 'cause I'm not like that old, although I feel very old sometimes, but the world was just so different.

Like, we didn't have, you know, all this information at our fingertips and I went to public school. We didn't have like a fancy college counselor. It was like, okay, I'll go to college and I'll figure it out. Which in some ways is like the best gift ever. Honestly, I'll have to say. So yeah, [00:03:00] I went in as a business major and, , business came very natural to me.

I really enjoyed it. And then one of my core requirements was a biology course. And I have to tell you, I hated biology in high school. Funny enough, like school was very easy for me. The only "C" I ever got in my life was in biology in high school. And I, I realized now I had a terrible teacher who did not love the subject, who, it was just a very challenging class for me.

And, I think part of it, uh, was I just hadn't learned how to memorize and like do the work because I naturally had gotten things very simply and easily. But going into college I hated the idea of taking a biology class, right? , But I fell in love with it. I had a great, amazing teacher and I literally just fell in love with science, I think at the end of the day.

And so. , You know, went on to, , tutor in microbiology and, and I thought I wanted to become, a doctor at the time because there were like three health, three biology majors available. Like that was it. Like the world was so different. It's so hard now. We have so many choices , we had general biology, pre-professional biology, and there might've been a third.

There might've only been two. , But at the end of the day, I. You know, I [00:04:00] loved solving problems and to me, medicine was very much about solving problems. Like, if I can figure something out, I'm like, at my happiest. Like, if I have nothing to figure out, I don't know, I dunno what I would do with myself. So I'll make something up to figure out.

Uh, so I, , really thought I wanted to go to medical school at the same time. I loved, um, you know, I loved families and I was, um, you know, with my high school sweetheart, we wanted to get married and have babies. And I just knew logically that like, there was no way to have a bunch of little kids and go to medical school.

And so I had a friend who, you know, we were getting close to graduation. I, I decided, well, I'm not gonna go to medical school. Like, what the hell do you do with a biology degree? Um, and I had a friend who said, well, I'm gonna be a pharmaceutical rep. And I was like, oh, what's that? And so, I have kind of this, I.

A really special talent of asking people questions. And I think you have that talent too. And just when you really listen, you, you learn a lot of things. And so, yeah, I thought, well, that sounds interesting. And I, I ended up actually going and doing, , a diagnostics first, just pure luck, you know, kind of looking what was out there.

I did a microbiology internship at the water [00:05:00] district after college, realized I did not wanna work in a laboratory, setting. I, was much too social . But, yeah, and then fell into diagnostics because that was, you know, the opportunity that was out there.

And, um, started setting up physician office labs, back when that was in vogue and you did in-office testing. my favorite thing though was I set up student health centers, for, , rapid, , STD testing, for college students. And we had like a test and treat strategy of, you know, , test, , get a result and do a one dose treatment.

, And , you could go on with your life. So definitely that problem solving ability. . So yeah, that's kind of the, the medical perspective. And from there I went on to become a pharmaceutical rep back when it was a lot of fun to be a pharmaceutical rep. , We had a lot of ability to kind of have great conversations with, doctors and I love the science and business combination, so it was kind of a perfect fit.

And then I went on to do managed care and key opinion leadership, um, in the pharma space and, , I did, um, everything from Parkinson's drugs, working with, neurologists to, gosh, allergy and asthma medications back when Allegra was a prescription medication. Um, [00:06:00] so yeah, , it was really interesting.

I learned a lot.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, when you said pharmaceuticals, it made me think, oh, , that is kind of like a combination of business and medicine. And my dad is a child psychiatrist, so I grew up kind of seeing that evolution of how doctors could interact with pharmaceutical reps.

Uh, so I remember getting the free stuff

Candise Goodwin: Oh yes. Oh yes.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, he would take us to his meetings and, and we would trick or treat around the expo hall and, and get stuff. but anyway, uh, long time ago for me too. . So then I think, , , you had, , a decision to pause and, raise your kids for a while, and especially in an industry where there's a lot of women and we're, and we're starting to have more of these conversations.

Do you mind just sharing a little bit about that decision? ,

Candise Goodwin: Yeah, , so I had four, I had four kids in my twenties, so I had four children in six years because I, I love big families that I love chaos apparently. , Which [00:07:00] is the best decision I think we ever made. , And so, you know, being a pharma pharma rep was a great. Job for a long time because, you know, I, I could be home and pick 'em up, you know, after school and do my notes at night.

And it was a really great career path, , for a working mom. Um, but then I was lucky enough, my husband had gotten a promotion and I also was just so frustrated because of those changes in the pharma guidelines. You know, we went from really adding value to just being an infomercial. And I, I just remember like, I could not get outta my car one day and just go waste somebody else time again when my kids were ready for me to pick 'em up after school, right?

So for me it was just a natural, like, I'm gonna take a break. , I decided to homeschool my kids because I'm crazy. And at the time now, it's very commonplace. , My oldest kid is turning 30, , in , February. So, , this is. Pre where it was like sexy and cool to homeschool your children. but, um, I was lucky enough to find, , really a great solution. They'd been in Catholic school and they were very bored. , So I homeschooled my kids for a few years and, really great memories and times, , that I think they each got to kind of get out of jail as I called it. 'cause I [00:08:00] think school was pretty torturous.

, So , my husband, , was in, , construction at the time and we had kind of the recession happen and in Vegas, you know, it was definitely impacted more than other parts of the country and I just had to go back to work, , financially. And so I didn't wanna go back into pharma.

Started taking a look around, like what were these transferrable skills that I had learned? , and I was lucky enough to fall into animal health, literally stumble into it. , I went to work for Intervet/Schering-Plough, , before we were Merck Animal Health. And, All of those lessons I had learned early days, in pharma were now applicable to animal health because of course we didn't have any of those same constraints, but it was also a much smaller industry.

, And the thing I loved most about it was we actually gotta have those business conversations. I mean, , on the human side, right? Like doctors had no choice. It was all managed, care driven, and you really. Had this weird, um, dynamic where you couldn't talk about like you knew their prescribing habits, but you couldn't tell 'em, you knew their prescribing habits.

So it was, I just didn't like the lack of transparency there. So , I like always remember going to, ride along and, and Intervet/Schering-Plough was a fabulous company. They had just really the best science and really [00:09:00] great long-term reps. And I was in a smaller territory. Vegas was, one of the smaller markets I would say.

But I went to work with, Chuck in Arizona who'd built the company like 20 plus years. And , riding through like a small town, he pulls out like the sales log for, you know, what this vet had bought. And he walks in and he like puts it down. He is like, what happened? Why'd you stop buying my product?

And I was like, oh my God. Like you could do that, That's craziness. , So yeah, it was really this, this combination of, of science and medicine. And what I found is veterinarians were phenomenally amazing smart people, and the industry was wildly different back then. It was primarily men. I mean, the owners I was reflecting back before our conversation.

I mean, the vast majority of veterinarians were men and the vast, vast majority of owners were men. you know, when I look back,, it was very different, , in how we approached. Gosh, product sales. But I also think at the end of the day, it was fascinating, how so many of , those folks, , they were good businessmen as well, but they didn't understand how to communicate the value of these new products we were bringing to market to the pet parent.

And so when I was at, we became Merck, I was our five and a half years, and [00:10:00] we launched about seven products over the time I was there. And, and these were innovative products, right? This was like the vet pen. This was, or, you know, Orbax oral suspension. This was, um, the canine influenza vaccine. So these were like just really differentiated products.

So we had to convince not just the veterinarian to bring in, but they had a. Be able to convince the pet owner that they should do, , this new treatment or therapy. And so I love that business side. And so I, I've really found my niche in helping them communicate that value to the pet parent, , or putting it in their protocols or, you know, just a way to systematize kind of innovation in the practice. and I got a lot of really joy out of that, quite frankly, 'cause there was nothing better than seeing, you know, a canine influenza vaccine at the time. It was, you know, really a scary disease. And it was great when veterinarians kind of decided that they were gonna protect, , pets under their care with that.

So.

Megan Sprinkle: I, I think this is a skill that you've completely mastered that, you know, the ability to communicate the value of something, like you have to do this in so many ways now, understanding the veterinary [00:11:00] understanding the pet owner perspective, understanding like the business perspective, and you have to like, communicate all across those, intersections. So how do you approach that and, and how do you not only approach it yourself, but how do you start to teach someone how to do that?

Candise Goodwin: Oh, that's great. Those are two, two good points. So I would say it goes back to, really going in with an open mind and, and asking questions and just kind of where I started, I think is where, where it all comes back to is just being really curious and interested in how things work, , and why things are the way they are.

And so for me , , Outlier Advisors three and a half years consulting is, it's a different business than obviously I've been in up until this point. But in some ways it's all the same, right? Which is, I wanna take a look at what's there. I wanna understand what your perspective is and what really problem that the solution is solving.

, There's a framework called Jobs to Be Done. That I just love, it's Clayton Christensen, Harvard Business Review, but , it gets at the core of, of why people do the things they [00:12:00] do. And so if you can understand the motivations of, of all of those stakeholders, you know, again, veterinarians, they just really want to make pets better.

Like at the end of the day, every veterinarian I've known, and I've worked so closely with so many. T hat's like what they're driving force is. pet parents, they just want their pet to feel better. , And then, then you sometimes have this great product or solution and they get.

They get lost in the science. I'll say for a consulting firm, that's the number one thing. We love working with really smart people who have the best products, but the best products don't usually win because if you focus on the product and you're not understanding like the need of why a veterinarian would want to use that and the need of why a pet parent would love to pay for that, then you're never gonna get that innovation, into the market.

And so, it's don't go on preconceived notions, like keep an open mind and just ask questions. but then ask the fourth question. I think people, sometimes they ask a question and they stop and they go, okay, well it's gonna be rude if I ask that next question, but it's not gonna be rude if you're curious and really interested.

And then, you know, taking the time to tie that [00:13:00] back to what you already know. , And for veterinarians particularly, I think it's like trusting yourself that you can figure things out that like that's really what, got you here.

Megan Sprinkle: Hmm, so for you personally, is that, I'm sure that's one of the things that you used, as a characteristic to go through this career path. I mean, you've been able to work with so many different companies and, and some of that is, with Merck, you know, they, I think acquired a few businesses and, and all sorts of things that kind of happened.

But, you know, what were some of the things that you were learning, personally, maybe like what you were interested in doing well in, but also learning about the environment you found yourself in, uh, of animal health.

Candise Goodwin: Yeah. You know, it's, it's, Merck was a great company and it still is a great company. I was very lucky. You know, we were a pretty small organization. It was a small industry back then. , And I learned a lot of great lessons. I think one of the best lessons I learned, early on was working with distributors.

back in the industry, back when I started in distribution, ruled the world, , we had a home [00:14:00] again, microchip. So we had to sell direct, um, or home again, microchip, which was actually really a great product to sell in. But, , I'll never forget one of my distributor reps, I made the mistake of like sending an email about a promotion or something and, and having all of their names, , on the email, right?

And I, I had, two distributor reps who lived in town and they were like legends. And I, I never like will forget Mary saying, , , let me just tell you, if you ever sent an email to me with Liz's name on it again, , I will not ever work with you.

And it was, , that was important to her, right? And so I, I learned that I better start asking more questions about how things work. So that was just one pivotal moment, I think. But I had many, you know, I was lucky enough to move up to corporate and national accounts within about a year.

And again, I had got to know, , EJ Rosso who was like a legend in the industry. And I had, we had a lot of conferences in Las Vegas and I lived in Las Vegas, and I just said, Hey, how can I help you? Like, let me schlep your stuff, send it to my house. I'll set up the booth with no expectations.

I mean, literally, I just wanted to learn and understand and be in the room. and so when they, opened up a second position, it was a natural fit. I knew the job I [00:15:00] had, already had relationships internally. that gave me an opportunity to just learn so much. You know, there was only two of us, at Merck, there was only about five national account managers in the country.

And so I got a chance to, lead all of the emerging groups for Merck, which was everybody except for VC and Banfield. and so again, I just got a chance to like go and learn and understand, and I love being the new kid. I just love asking questions and trying to figure it out. And so. Yeah, I got a chance to lead buying groups and then I managed distribution and did, you know, part of the global launch team for Bravecto.

And so I think it, for me, it's just showing up and asking questions and adding value and things kind of unlock from there. Um, you know, and then taking a chance, so I left Merck to go to work for Vet's First Choice, which was an account that I managed, , as well for, , Merck. And I got to know the team there very well and really believed in what they were doing.

And so a lot of my career has just really been showing up and having people give me the opportunity to figure things out. Um, and if you let me figure things out, I'm gonna do it as good as anybody else, I hope better. But, I think that's really my sweet [00:16:00] spot is when people, you know, have put me in a position and given me the control and power to, tell us what needs to happen here.

that's, that's really my sweet spot. 

Megan Sprinkle: I also sometimes really love being the new person or, some people laugh at this, but like being the dumbest person in the

Candise Goodwin: Mm-hmm.

Megan Sprinkle: 'cause you can say, you can be like, I'm the new kid. Can I, I'm gonna ask all these questions. And honestly, for the most part, I, I have found that people actually like that.

Candise Goodwin: Mm-hmm.

Megan Sprinkle: being able to share what they know.

Candise Goodwin: Mm-hmm.

Megan Sprinkle: And, , they appreciate it when people are genuinely interested in learning. and then they take it and, you know, it's not just like, okay, it was story time and then you do absolutely nothing with it. But when they see that you've, you know, like you are actually putting this into action, , it's really rewarding for other people. that's amazing that you are able to, to move that fast. And, and it sounds like a lot of it is being willing to ask questions. show up, do the work. So, Vet's First Choice, which is, is now Covetrus

Candise Goodwin: Mm-hmm.

Megan Sprinkle: , I[00:17:00] 

Candise Goodwin: Mm-hmm.

Megan Sprinkle: There's like so many evolutions. So I, I'm curious, just if you don't mind sharing a little bit of your journey and just watching the evolution of veterinary medicine within just, I think you said 15 years, like to, this is pretty amazing.

Like, can you, share that and kind of like through your own career journey showing , the evolution that you're seeing.

Candise Goodwin: Yeah. No, I love that. I love that so much. You know, I think it's interesting and it really is interesting, Meck five and a half years, again, just in my time at Merck. moving from, you know, from a field rep up into a national account manager, again, watching the, type of products we were bringing into market and, and sitting in those rooms thinking about like distribution of Bravecto, you know, and, are we gonna avil, are we gonna have track and trace technology?

Like channel questions, you know, who should be selling and, and stocking this product? , And then, you know, Vet's first choice was a big shift, right? Like they wanted to change the world. And it was about 30 people I was there, you know, they just got their first big round of funding and it was, it was a ton of fun.

, But it was a huge learning curve for me. I mean, I went from a company that, you know, I could have [00:18:00] some control over how I, um, communicated and the type of materials I used. But moving to a startup, it was like. You were given free reign, but also full responsibility to figure it out very quickly. And I was with very smart people.

And so, , the goal was to really change the way that consumers receive pet medications and to make it easier for pet parents to have access to the great products. And that was pretty revolutionary at the time. Like, this is pre-MAP policy, this is 2015. , And so when I look at the evolution of the industry, even just getting manufacturers to like work with us was challenging.

And so I, I led the corporate account, strategy, , and you know, really build out as well as kind of working with the manufacturers to help them understand what was happening. PetMeds 1-800-PETMEDS was the big threat at the time. And, you know, I remember my corporate pitch decks to, corporate groups around like, Hey, PetMeds is the enemy, which is so funny.

'cause now we have Chewy, which. Chewy's, obviously a thousand times better at what they do than than an early companies were out there. you know, when I looked at the shift at the things we were bringing to the market, people were not ready for, I mean, it was like revolutionary, this idea of like, oh, we're gonna cannibalize our pharmacy, we sell everything.

[00:19:00] People trust us, they're gonna buy, you know, everything from us. So as I look at where we are today, obviously a material shift. And then I went to work for VIP Pet Care. VIP at the time was the largest provider of mobile veterinary services in the country. And we saw about a million pets a year at pop-up clinics, , in retailers across the country.

And so, again, when I looked at scale and size and the ability to kind of move to the veterinary side of the table, like that was a ton of fun. I led our e-commerce, , online pharmacy as well as our vendor relationships. And then we got acquired by Pet IQ within about six months, and we went out and built the first Walmart vet clinics.

, So within about three months we opened about 20 clinics in Walmarts across the country.

Megan Sprinkle: Wow.

Candise Goodwin: and, so again, how do you move very quickly to make changes and, and help our veterinarians who were in the offices like treat the patients in front of 'em.

So yeah, again, I just got a chance to kind of, when things needed to be fixed, I said, Hey, I, let me help, lemme try and figure it out. And, um, I got a chance to go do and try a lot of things. Not all of 'em were successful and many of them, unfortunately, we didn't get the [00:20:00] runway to kind of get to market. But like the things I believed in in 2019 are still true today, I think of what pet owners want and need.

, I did like about seven jobs while I was there, but I think what I, what I would say is The theme is the same, right? Like pet owners want great solutions. They want 'em when and how they, they want them and they want care wear and how they want it as well. So whether it's in a Tractor supply, you know, getting , your puppies vaccinated or at, , one of the, , Vet IQs we opened in Walmart.

Like, I wanna go in and get a sick pet pack. one of the things I was really proud of is I stood up a sick pet pack at our Walmart vet clinics. It was like $55. You could walk in, you could see a vet, you could get basic in-house diagnostics, and you get a prescription to go to the pharmacy of your choice to buy the pet medications your pet needed, and, , your skin, GI, UTI, and we could do it profitably, right?

So , we had to figure out ways to innovate and also keep affordability in mind. and then again, I was lucky enough to, to wind up at Petco, pre IPO and Petco needed help with figuring out their pharmacy solution. They had bought Doctors Fosters and Smith, , and then they had, um, shut that [00:21:00] down and, , spun up , a joint venture with Express Scripts.

So. , I had a big opportunity to go figure things out again and make it better for pet parents. , And our veterinarians too were really central to us Dr. Whitner Miller was, um, my chief veterinarian when I was at Petco. And I mean, she's just an amazing veterinarian.

And the same at VIP; I had Dr. Katie Flair. So, you know, I've been lucky enough to have some really great, medical, knowledge on the other side as we figured out some really hard things.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, and I think you have pet folk on your, your resume too, which also is a very innovative, , creative veterinary team you mentioned, you know, you tried some things that worked and then tried some things that didn't. And in an interview that I've heard you, on, you mentioned that one of your favorite topics to speak on is actually failure. Why is that your favorite topic to speak on in your experience?

Candise Goodwin: Because we don't talk about it enough. You know, we all see like the highlight reel of each other's lives, and it's, it's so frustrating, it's so challenging , for the younger [00:22:00] generations particularly, right? ' I really find that. Especially for veterinarians and especially for the younger veterinarian, like there is a huge confidence gap and there's this huge perfectionism if you're not a perfectionist, you're not getting to veterinary school. Right. And I think that all of those things that got us there are the things that are gonna hold us back the most.

And so it's not just about, failing, it's about learning and it's about showing up authentically it's okay not to be perfect, like in everything we do, right? And so it's the hardest lesson we all have to learn, but it's the humanity that draws us closer. And so, yeah, I mean, I think if you think everyone's winning and their perfect self all the time, then, then you're just going to feel like crap.

And I don't like when people feel like crap. And all of those lessons that I've learned and I continue to learn, God, it's not like I'm done learning. I learn every day. that's it. And I think once you get to sit down with somebody and like have a deep conversation and they understand like.

Wow, that's okay. Like this person has had like something go horribly wrong and like they're here and they're smiling and life goes on. We just need more of that. I just think we need more of that up in the [00:23:00] world, quite frankly. 

Megan Sprinkle: The fear of failure is, such a, big one, especially in the veterinary professionals because a lot of times we feel like that failure is, probably two. Sadly, this may feel about equal is one. You know, we have life in our hands sometimes. the other one, I think just the nature of our personalities is that we're gonna let someone down.

Candise Goodwin: Mm-hmm.

Megan Sprinkle: and, and I, I said Sally, I think sometimes that's, that feels about equal, like death and letting people down. but, um, you know, that's, that's hard. And, I think both are valid concerned, right? the same time, we're human. if we can embrace it as learning and communicate through it as much as possible. the other thing that is so interesting when I think about failure is, and I think you're a perfect person to ask this about, because again, you, you, you kind of are also at [00:24:00] this, the in-between veterinary, pet owner and then the business world. This, this crazy, weird pet industry that seems so mysterious and, and siloed over here, away from vet. And I think there's also a challenge you know, the people on the business side are also human. , and they may also do things that don't And we have such a challenge. Again, all three groups of trust. You even mentioned, challenge of the veterinary team conveying how much they care about the pet and the health to the pet owner.

, There's a disconnect there when you are thinking about trust in all of this. what are you seeing is the best things that we can do to improve upon that?

Candise Goodwin: Yeah. Oh gosh. There's so much there. first of all, I think the, the, the failure in, in letting people down, I think at the end of the day, those are two of the most dangerous [00:25:00] combinations. I think it's like one plus one equals not just three. It equals a lot more than that. Um, and I think what that does is it makes people smaller, right?

It makes people like less likely to connect with others and feel more. Standoffish, for lack of a better term. I think we are protective when we're in that mode, which I think is what pet owners sense, right? At the end of the day. And so , I was at a conference, I dunno which one, 'cause I've been to too many, but, um, there was a, a speaker on stage and, , they ask her about, failure or something to that effect.

and she said, , you cannot keep all the balls in the air. You will drop balls and I mean, you are going to drop some balls. And her point was just don't drop the glass ones. Um, which I love because I think it's so important. Like what is the priority?

What are those glass balls in your life that you cannot drop or in your career? Um, but the rest of 'em are gonna fall and like, you're gonna have to laugh about it or you're gonna like drive yourself nuts. And so, you know, back to trust, for me it goes back to. I think the veterinary profession, one of the challenges that I see across the board is, you know, the way that the education system works, what the veterinary student is exposed to, and the companies that they have access to [00:26:00] are very limited.

And so at a very formative age, they see good, bad, right, wrong, black, white, which is not the world we live in. And so I think about trust, it really is about not just believing, that like, ivory tower, medicine must be done or you are a bad person or you're a bad veterinarian. because I think that's where the gap is, right?

I think we have so many solutions, but so many veterinarians get. I don't wanna say indoctrinated, but it's indoctrinated in some ways, right? Like very early in vet school, like, if I don't do this advanced diagnostic, then I am not doing my job. and that's not the, the truth, right? The truth is you need to treat the pet in front of you and, and you already probably have a ton of information you know in your head about what this might or could be or could not be.

And so to me it's really about, bringing the pet owner into that journey and, Talking through what their goals are, making sure that you understand and give options to pet parents. Right. So trust to me is, you know, , my mother passed away and, you know, has spent a lot of time in the hospital talking with medical staff.

And I mean, the best you get out of a medical team is when you can [00:27:00] ask genuine, thoughtful questions and, they're advocates and helpers for you, right? And so I think there has to be education for pet parents around how to do that, but there has to be receptivity from a veterinarian to really be a partner and care for a pet, not the center of the universe, right?

And so if you can think of yourself that way and you can use your team that way, that is gonna be the biggest difference of trust. and a big part of is. Time, right? I mean, unfortunately we have so many distractions in clinics that it gets so challenging sometimes just to like be present with a pet owner, um, in the room.

And, and that's where I'm really excited about some of the new veterinary care models because I think they've, they've really taken that customer experience and, and made it not just all about being in the four walls at that one moment and how do you actually have the conversation before you get in the practice, after you get out of the practice, and continue that dialogue.

But I think for the veterinarian specifically, trust has to be, if someone's feeding a raw diet and, and you think it's a terrible choice, like maybe understand why they're feeding it and how it's working for them, right? And like, instead of being judgemental, and I know [00:28:00] obviously the nutrition front is like, we could talk forever about this, but I, I just, the older I get, there's no good or bad, right?

It's like back to like, why are they doing this? How's it working for them? And like, what can I actually do to make this pet's health better and not fight about the one thing that I think is stupid that a pet owner is doing?

Megan Sprinkle: Yes. I, I am so glad that we're starting to talk about that more in veterinary medicine, about the, leaving judgment. At home,

Candise Goodwin: Yes, yes,

Megan Sprinkle: it at home, just get rid of it.

Candise Goodwin: yes,

Megan Sprinkle: no judgment. , Because again, I think this is such a common theme. This is why I think this is a value word for me, is just staying genuinely curious.

Like ask the pet owner, not in a judgmental way. Like,

Candise Goodwin: yes.

Megan Sprinkle: that? It's

Candise Goodwin: Yes.

Megan Sprinkle: oh, okay, so what are you liking about that? Or what, what were the problems that you were seeing before that? Or, you know, trying to really put the, the puzzle piece together so that you can best guide the pet owner. and if you understand the, the problem more intimately, you're able [00:29:00] to help with a better solution that the pet owner's also more will, more interested to partake in, which builds that trust. And, and I think on the flip side too, when we're thinking about businesses creating products or services, you have to understand the challenge that you're trying to create the solution for. Um, I think you mentioned that, right? Like, you, you can have this amazing solution, but if you haven't taken into account, everything on for the person that you're solving, you're trying to solve it for, it's not gonna fly. It's not gonna work.

Yeah.

Candise Goodwin: Yeah, I mean, I think again, it's just, I think assume good intent and show up with kindness, and I think that's the message for 2026 as well is, you know, how can we all just see the other human in front of us and try and help 'em, right? And that's, that's what gets me up every morning. That's what I love about my business is I just, I love.

Helping people reach their goals. And I think understanding what that goal is, and it goes back to, you know, what does the pet owner want for their pet? And I, don't think it's, it's not a financial, barrier all the time. I love Cherice Roth from Mars. we had a [00:30:00] conversation about accessibility and affordability of care and she used something that really struck with me as, people have three budgets.

they have a, a financial budget. Yes. Everyone really has a financial budget. You know, no matter how much we talk about, we'd spend anything, like, we can't, there's a, a time budget like, you know, it is very hard to be a, pet parent with a special needs pet or a pet with a severe anxiety.

Like there's only so much time in the day and then there's an emotional budget and we don't talk enough about the emotional budget. And to me, that just really nailed the, the point. And I think, you know, we focus a lot on financial budgets and accessibility and affordability to care, but many times it's not the money that's the issue.

And, and there, there's other ways I think we can approach those situations.

Megan Sprinkle: What a great way of putting it too, because. It made me come back to the veterinary professional. Right. I think we all have that too.

Candise Goodwin: Yes, yes,

Megan Sprinkle: an emotional

Candise Goodwin: yes,

Megan Sprinkle: and, a time budget too. and being very mindful, and again, going back to what are the biggest priorities,

Candise Goodwin: yes.

Megan Sprinkle: that we need to juggle and which ones if they drop, [00:31:00] it's not the end of the world.

the the other thing too is you were kind of earlier you talked about pet owners want care they want, when they want it, where they want it, all that kind of thing. But there's not just like one pet owner. That they all want the same thing.

There's going to be different wants and needs. so veterinarians are trying to understand all of the different needs, listen, and, and make sure that , if they can't support that, that they can at least maybe refer them to, somewhere that they can. businesses, I think the pet industry is just, it feels like it's booming a little bit.

Like there's a lot of people trying to get in. You said it was such a small industry when you started it. It's big. And I think there's some economy things that people they saw in some data that came out. People are kind of hesitant to do some things , especially on the larger scale, but I think it also opens up more opportunity. For the smaller people who can move [00:32:00] fast and learn how to get the resources they need to, to create some solutions, which to me is, someone who likes entrepreneurs, gets really excited about too. , What are you seeing, on the business side of things, what's kind of like the key to success that you're seeing from the, the pet industry side of things?

, Again, I love to highlight this 'cause the vet industry doesn't always get to kind of understand that side of the equation. So what do you see when you're working with businesses of all sizes? what are kind of the, the keys to success to coming up with some solutions that we're gonna really appreciate in the coming years? 

Candise Goodwin: you know, the, the point you made about it's, it's about personalization and I think it's actually about hyper personalization right now. Right. People, you know, and I, I get a billion newsletters this time of year from folks and you know, from veterinarians I love and trust are like.

here's some pet health tips. It's like, no, I wanna know about my dash dog. I wanna know about like how you're gonna help Dash dog. I don't care about pet health. Like, nobody cares about generalities anymore. [00:33:00] So I think the people that, , I'm seeing be successful on the, um, on the pet side are really focused on hyper personalization.

Um, and on the retail side specifically, like, there are so much data out there that people now have the ability to help understand, what your needs are and feed those back to you. So hyper-personalization matters. And, you know, I go back to like, even Petco days, we had different type of shoppers.

We had a natural pet shopper, we had a science-based pet shopper, right? And so you are never going to move a science-based pet shopper into a natural category. It's not gonna happen. But if you're talking in generalities to both as if they're just pet parents, you've missed an opportunity, right?

So I think that we have. As a society, we have less patience, we have less, focus, and we want to know that you know and care about my dash dog, not about a dog, not about a German Short hair pointer, but about my 4-year-old dog who loves to sleep under the covers, right? Like that ability to connect one-on-one at that level is super meaningful.

Um, and that I think we're seeing more tailored solutions out of those type of opportunities. So I always say the riches are in the niches. It's like niche down and like actually figure out what's the one pain [00:34:00] point for the one pet or pet parent. and then they will love your product or solution.

Like, don't solve all the things, solve one thing and solve one real thing that I need solved right now. Um, and I think the other is just in time or, or hyper fast, right? So I don't wanna know all the pieces of information. Like, please don't give me like, here's your puppies first year. I can't imagine my puppies first day.

So I wanna have information and products available just when I need them. Like, it's great to let me know about them ahead of time, but don't try to give me everything. We all use bite-sized bits of information because we don't have to have it all at once. , And so how do you think about. You know, the most successful companies are breaking it down of like, right now I have a question.

I need to go get that answer. I need to buy that product. It's no longer about here's the 25 things you need for your puppy. So that's really where I see these, products coming out that are very focused and specialized for specific, , need states of pets. I'm excited in the veterinary profession.

E vet, I just met Brandy from E Vet,, and like, wow. I mean, talk about a really cool, amazing, differentiated business, but like, there's real meat behind it. But they [00:35:00] fully understand the customer. They fully understand the pain of that customer. but in the pet product space, the same is true. You know, we see, , like Woof is one of my favorite brands.

If you have an WOOF, , you know, they started with a Popsicle, which is, you know, kind of an elevated Kong, you could argue, but like it's so thoughtfully designed and like their marketing is like 20 minutes of peace for you, for your active pet, right? And now they've layered in like health conditions. So I think it's like kind of that reverse engineering of like.

Jobs to be done. Like, why do I buy a toy for my dog? I buy a toy for my dog for one of two reasons to distract him or to feel good. , That's it, that's all I care about. So I think it really, the companies I services I see are really getting hyper-focused on that. , I was just at pet connect in LA and I got invited to dog people, which is like a dog social club, which is so cool. I got a chance to go and see like their, their clubhouse, holiday market opening, which was like so fun and amazing to see all these different walks of life and people together and dog shopping. And so, you know, again, understanding like why somebody would wanna do that thing is so important. and the [00:36:00] companies that are figuring it out really know who that someone is.

and that's the most important thing I think at the end of the day.

Megan Sprinkle: Do you foresee this hyper-personalization getting into the veterinary clinic? 'cause you would think that the vet clinic knows so

Candise Goodwin: Yes,

Megan Sprinkle: about that pet. Like,

Candise Goodwin: yes.

Megan Sprinkle: optimizing?

Candise Goodwin: Ah. You know, and I think smart businesses are, to be clear, I mean, you know, I think, I think Pet folk's a great example. I think Modern animal, I mean all of the usual players, but there's also newer innovations. Like when I look at what's happening in the uk and even some of the newer players here, they are that hyper-personalized, right?

Like modern animal. I mean, because you have to have an app, chewy Vet Care, right? I mean, chewy Vet Care. Like you don't go in without creating an account first , for modern animal either, right? And it's not just about the pet, it's about the pet parent, right? Because it's about the pet parent. They're the ones who are deciding.

It's not about if I have a bulldog or if I have a Frenchie, it's like. I work all day and I wanna make my dog feel good when I walk in the door. Like that's why I'm doing something right? Like, I wanna feel like a good pet parent. So I think it's that focus on the [00:37:00] pet parent, not on the pet that the veterinarian hasn't figured out.

It's fascinating, right? 'cause you have, veterinarians know everything about the pet, right? and then you have retailers, old brick and mortar retailers, , they had a challenge, right? So the, but e-commerce giants have the ability to know the consumer, right? Like they, you know, where I live, you know, what I buy, you know, all of these things.

, And so I think what's interesting is when you combine those and you know, the pet and the pet parent, and that's where you see the Chewys of the world coming in, , that can really create those special moments for pet parents. that's where it gets really interesting. I think at the end of the day.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. , Of course , we come into the veterinary industry with, with love of animals, But, more and more it, it really is a, a human to human business.

Making sure not to forget that part of the, , I think the other end of the leash is that

Candise Goodwin: Yes.

Megan Sprinkle: is, , is so crucial and, when hopefully we improve this trust, this relationship, , our pre-call together, you said we are really at a crossroads in veterinary medicine. , [00:38:00] And, you know, feel free to kind of elaborate and pull this all together from that, but, um, I, I really do think there's a lot of things changing. There's a lot of data, um, that the pet owner has certain expectations that currently a lot of veterinary industry is not quite coming up to. So here we are, uh, like what are we gonna do?

How do we want to be part of pet health? Like, do, do we wanna stay this way? Do we wanna do it something differently? yeah, just kind of summarizing, , the crossroads that you were thinking about. , What do we have to decide here?

Candise Goodwin: You know, I think there's two, there's two layers, right? Like with everything. I mean, we have the, the corporations 'cause veterinary is big business, right? I mean, there, there are major corporations out there that, that have a lot of ability to influence how we move forward. And I think there's some folks that are doing a really great job of understanding and innovating and it's not always the startups.

It's fascinating. You know, I did a talk, at that forum earlier this year and it was around, you know, client experience is the growth strategy, right? And , I start with the thesis of like, oh, it's all the de [00:39:00] novos and, and many of them that were doing. Great things, but there are still gaps in what they're offering.

But when I look at, , some of the older players like Mars as an example, like VC and Banfield, I see them continuing to innovate to meet the modern pet parents' needs, whether it's launching senior wellness plans or whether it's, , redoing their, their app to be more, information available for pet owners or changing their , wellness plans to like have an affordable option online booking.

So I think when I look at innovation, it's all around us. and I think that the companies have a role to play and I think. You know, the challenge is not all companies are treating it equally. Things like price transparency, right? Like to me, price transparency is like one of those issues I know we can solve.

I mean, we will have to solve, but like people are already getting in front of it. but I, I think the disruptors of the de novos, there's new disruptors out there that are doing things better. Instead of like six clicks to book an appointment, it's one click, right? Like being much more truly consumer focused. and then I look at the, the, the veterinarian who's in practice, my heart goes out to the veterinarian practice. I think that's where. I have the most, compassion and frustration for them right now [00:40:00] because I think they're stuck in the middle. And I think being stuck in the middle is a sucky place to be.

And that's where I think like, how can you on a daily basis have the impact you want with the constraints of the system you work within and the employer you work for. And so I do think it's an important time to take a look if you have flexibility in your career and, and where and how you wanna practice medicine.

Like, now's the time to do it. Like we're seeing a resurgence in. private, individually owned practices and new business models. And there's such an innovation happening there, I think with veterinarians that are like, you know, I'm, I could do this better. Right? And there's like, the cost of entry is so low.

So I think, for the individual veterinarian, my hope and really advice is take a look around you and if you're not where you want to be, figure out where you want to be. 'cause you can't, you can't fight. City Hall is like one of my favorite sayings I tell anyone in their career, like, you can't fight city Hall.

It's great to show up and think you're gonna like rage against the system, but if you work in a company, you have no power, no control and no voice, then find a different company. Like it is that simple. Or find a make a company. and if you can't do that, 'cause not everyone has that luxury capability.

Like [00:41:00] find your people and build a community of people and, and find other ways to, to bring joy into your life and, and meet those needs. because I think we just have to be realistic in 2026, like. The system took a long time to build and it's gonna take a long time to change. And so where and how you can have an impact.

Like let's do that. You can show up different every day at work. You can really ask a different question every day, but, but you also need your people. I love self-care, but I think it's like other care, honestly, I think we've gotten too involved in like self-care. Like self-care is great. I can put on so much cream and put on music, but like, I need to take care of someone else and we need to be part of something together that like, then we feel good.

so to me we are so isolated and so it's funny, we have so much technology at our fingertips that we've never been more alone. Um, and so I think how can you get back with people and, and really not just make a difference, but like just have some fun as well. So yeah, I think it's two layered. I really do.

Megan Sprinkle: Oh, I love that. , And I, I feel like maybe you've, taken your own advice. You started your own, consultant company and, I've [00:42:00] also heard people ask you, , this was on the Veterinary Innovation podcast, and Ivan was like, I, I've been there. , So what do you do when they don't take your advice and you're like, well, I choose my clients wisely. So you, you have the ability to, to pick who you work with and so that you are also, hopefully having fun, but also being able to put your personal values into your work and your purpose and your impact. So, anything you wanna share about the decision to go into consulting and what you get to do now and what you like about it?

Candise Goodwin: Oh gosh. Yeah. Again, like everything I stumbled into it, after leaving Petco, I, I worked briefly at, we were One Vet not PetFolk at the time, which again, I think the world of Audrey and, you know, it just wasn't a fit for a variety of reasons. And I think it was a surprise to both of us.

And, you know, at the end of the day I said, I'm gonna figure out what's next. And I thought, you know, just like everyone that figures out what's next is I'm gonna, I'm gonna do some consulting. And I, you know, I really thought it was a great way to like, test out who I might [00:43:00] wanna work for next and like what I wanted to do.

'cause I think I tried, you know, I mean, if you look at my. Careers, like, you know, a big bigger company at Merck. Then I went to startup, then I went to, you know, startup, then I went to big company, then I went startup. So I wasn't sure, honestly, I had no idea when I, when I was back in summer of 2022, I really didn't know.

I just knew I liked helping people and I, I thought, I'm gonna try this. and, you know, immediately it was great. Like my phone started ringing from just a variety of sources of people that I had met and worked with over the years. Because what I hadn't realized is I was an intrapreneur, right? Like, big companies had hired me to go solve a problem, like a very big, meaty problem and given me the power and authority and money to do it.

and again, not everything worked out like I shared. So all of those lessons I'd learned were so valuable, , for so many people. And so, yeah, some of my first clients were people that either, old bosses that I, you know, we didn't love each other at the end, or, people that I had turned down for projects, you know, when I was making decisions for these big companies, asking for my help to figure out like, why did you turn it down?

How can we fix that? so yeah, I, and I, you know, probably about six months in, I. Well, [00:44:00] maybe three months in I was like, wow, there's like a real business here and there's a gap in the market. And you know, I've purposely named my company Outlier Advisors because I do think, you know, how can we help outliers people who, you know, you don't have to be outside of a system to be an outlier.

You just have to have a different point of view how can I help those people get innovation in market? And, you know, we work with very large public companies all the way down to startups. And this portfolio approach to, to consulting I think is really fun.

But, , David Hayworth one time told me very early days, there's three reasons people hire a consultant and it's also stuck with me. one, you can do work um, that they could do, but they don't have the time. That's my least interesting work I do, and I do it rarely. two is, you can help them, do work that they, they don't know how to do or don't understand how to do.

And that's, that's really the sweet spot. 'cause I do know kind of where all the bodies are buried and how things really work versus how they work on the surface. and then three is to tell the CEO they're wrong. Um, because no one can do that in a company. And it's true, you know, it's hard. And so. But I think data, and when you hire a consultant, you're really [00:45:00] looking for somebody that can give you information to make a decision.

At its core, that's what consulting great consulting is. I'm gonna give you information and help you make a decision. And so those three use cases still hold true. And I love, all three again, the, you know, we do some of the outsourced work because again, there's, there's complexity there. People don't realize sometimes how complicated, you know, different elements can be.

But, for me, it was important, you know, from the beginning the business was structured around like deliverables. Like we don't give advice, we don't, you know, do introductions. We, give you real solid, tangible assets that you can use after we roll off a project. because I think, again, people. like probably with your dad, like with, with a mental health.

Are you a, you know, are you a psychologist, psychiatrist, a cb? Like, people don't know or understand the difference of an advisor. A consultant, like, you know, but, but they think it's important that, you know, we wanted to structure ourselves in a way that we, we provide you with things and tools that you can go do what you want to do.

Um, whether that's a decision, whether that's, , strategic partnerships that you want to go after, whatever that is. Branding, [00:46:00] messaging, I mean, anything to do with growth and figuring out, you know, how to unlock that growth. which has been a lot of fun. And we've met just some amazing people.

I mean, I cannot tell you how much energy I get from entrepreneurs. I love entrepreneurship like you and the stories and the passion, and people just also just need a cheerleader sometimes. It's funny, I was a cheerleader very briefly in high school, um, and um, then I dyed my hair purple and decided I didn't wanna be a cheerleader.

but, uh, I think, you know, people need more cheerleaders. They need more people to see the great things they're doing and like, tell 'em great job, keep going. Like I love that. That's the best part of my job. Even if I, I do a lot of unpaid work and just, I do a lot of mentoring and just, I think there's more people need to tell people great job.

Like, that's really cool what you're doing. And for some reason we, we get really self-protective and don't do that. But, that's really, a big part of what I do.

Megan Sprinkle: Uh, that can go so far. It is telling somebody that they're doing a good job. because whether you're a veterinarian and you're feeling alone and siloed and [00:47:00] someone says thank you, the way you listen to me, like that meant a lot to me. That that'll keep you going for so long. Like it, that really is a big deal. So I wanna thank you so much for what you do and, I'm sure you have an exciting year ahead, both challenging and exciting. I'm glad to know that you're, you'll be a part of it, helping those that are really trying to make real solutions, make it happen. last question is, what is something you're just really grateful for?

Candise Goodwin: Hmm. You know, I think, this time of year, it's always, it's a great time to ask that question. And professionally I'm grateful that people trusted me to figure things out just said you go do it. And I, I try and give that same grace to, folks in my life.

I think try not to, force solutions or, tell people what to do. And so I'm just really grateful that, uh, I continue to be given opportunities to, figure things out because again, at the end of the day, I think we all do better when we have some of that agency over our own lives. So.

Yeah, that's really what I'm grateful for. I think this time of year.

Megan Sprinkle: I don't know about you, but this episode [00:48:00] leaves me with a lot of thoughts. Because Candace is so plugged in, she's able to tell us the good, the bad, the ugly. But I leave feeling like there's a call to action. It's highly possible that if you've been thinking about doing something, learn that new skill, make that connection, volunteer for that committee or initiative, go to that conference, that this is the year to do it, whether you're stepping into 2026 with a big goal, or simply hoping to feel more aligned in your career, Candace's insights are a powerful reminder. Clarity, consistency, and and courage can go a long way. As we head into VMX and a new year of opportunities, I encourage you to think about how you're positioning yourself.

Not just for the job you have, but for the future that you want to shape. The veterinary profession is full of possibilities and your voice, your ideas, and your leadership matter more than ever. Thanks for listening to Vet Life Reimagined. If this episode resonates with you, share it with a colleague, connect with me at VMX, [00:49:00] and don't forget to follow or subscribe wherever you're listening.

That really, really helps, and until next time, keep reimagining what's possible in veterinary life.