What dairy cows taught me about leadership & breaking gender barriers (Linda Rhodes)

From barnyard to boardroom: Dr. Linda Rhodes shares her exciting career path from despite the many 'no's, becoming Utah's first large animal veterinarian taking care of cows in world-class daires to the many adventures that followed. Dr. Linda continued to get a PhD, to lead teams in the pharmaceutical industry, to starting her own consulting firm, to starting the first award to recognize women in animal health, The Feather in Her Cap award. She is also an Iron Paw award winner. She is now an author: her memoir "Breaking the Barnyard Barriers: A Woman Veterinarian Paves the Way" will be released on Feb 17, 2026. (link below)

Resources:

• Video version on YouTube
• Linda's website
• Order Linda's book on Amazon
• 2026 Feather in Her Cap Awards winners Press Release 

Transcript

Linda Rhodes: [00:00:00] There was a long pause. He said, you know, we're really pretty desperate, so I guess we're just gonna have to give you a chance. And that was my first job.

Megan Sprinkle: Welcome to Vet Life Reimagined. It's a little crazy to think that in the 1970s, only 11% of veterinary students were women. Today it's around 84%. My guest today didn't just witness that transformation. She fought for it every step of her career.

Starting from graduating from vet school at the University of Pennsylvania in 1978. As a newly minted, a large animal vet, Dr. Linda stepped into the Barnards of Utah, where many dairymen insisted women didn't belong. Every calf she delivered, every cow she saved, built her confidence. Every setback, every gendered insult tested it. At home, the demands of farm life collided with marriage. Forcing Dr. Rhodes to confront a question women everywhere asked. Can she truly have it all? As a person who loved to [00:01:00] learn and was raised to be curious, her career was full of twists and turns doing many different things from pharma developing medications to starting the first animal health award for women called Feather in her cap that occurs every year at VMX.

Her life is definitely an adventure that I'm excited to share with you today. On top of it, she is a masterful writer and is publishing her first book called Breaking the Barn Yard Barrier, which will come out on February 17th, 2026. I hope you enjoy this episode. I hope you are inspired. So let's get to the conversation with Dr.

Linda Rhodes.

when did you know that you were even interested in veterinary medicine?

Linda Rhodes: Oh gosh, , it's kind of an unusual beginning because I, I wasn't interested in, not only wasn't I interested in veterinary medicine, but I wasn't even interested in biology when I was an undergrad. I was interested in the hard sciences, physics, chemistry, know, quantum [00:02:00] mechanics, all kinds of mathematics, all kinds of crazy stuff. I, when I graduated college, I went out to live on a farm, on a commune in California back in the days of the hippies, when we all were going back to the land. And, I just gravitated towards the animals. I really enjoyed milking. I learned how to milk goats and I was milked about 20 goats by hand. And we had sheep and chickens and I just really enjoyed the animal care.

And whenever something went wrong, the vet would come and I would wander around behind him. And it was always a guy. And I just realized that I really wanted a lifestyle where I could use my scientific brain, but also be connected with animals and be able to be outside and, not have to sit behind a desk.

And so it really didn't start until about 1970. 71, many years ago, more than 50 years ago.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. Well that came just a little bit. your father was in the sciences as well, but then also had an artistic side, 'cause [00:03:00] also did photography. And I think your mother also had some artistic, to her as well. Do you mind sharing just a little bit about growing up and, uh, did your, like what's your parents do?

How did they kind of set you up for. Finding a career path going forward.

Linda Rhodes: You know, I was so fortunate in my parents, they were really unusual people. they both came from. Very tiny little towns in Colorado. very poor farming communities, but each of them had some kind of spark. And I, you know, I don't, I, I really don't know where they got it from, but when they got together, it just, it, it just turned into this. This, this kinda wave of, of wanting to know more, to do more, to be more to travel, to learn things, to read. Um, and they both came east and my dad, studied photography at Rochester Institute of Technology, and my mom was a. You know, it's kind of a typical [00:04:00] housewife, but at home it was all about learning.

It was all about asking questions. It was all about curiosity. which is, you know, the kinda the basis of science and lots of conversations around our dining room table about all kinds of things, , to do with. The natural world and why things were the way they were. And my dad was always getting on a slide rule and doing calculations and , but he also was a very, an excellent photographer and, he got more interested in the chemistry of photography and actually became. kinda a world expert in color reproduction. The, the whole method by which you take a a picture and you, you, you put it on paper and the kind of inks that you need. And, and he ended up, being hired by Xerox to invent the color copier, and his name is on all the patents for the very first copier that copied things in color. so I grew up in this kind of mix of. Kinda artistic sensibility, but also questioning. And, they [00:05:00] were very non-conformist. they really asked lots of questions about why do we do it like this? why are we living in this way there? Are there other ways we could live? And it, and always questioning are we, thinking about what we're doing? and it was just a terrific way of growing up and, and it made me a lifetime learner and a a lifetime person of curiosity. so I still read widely, I read science and nature. I was just reading the most recent science magazine this morning about quantum mechanics and learning about. the Heisenberg Uncertainty principle and crazy stuff that has nothing to do with veterinary medicine, but, it's just fun to have a curious mind.

Megan Sprinkle: Yes. And, questioning how things have always been, or, questioning everything in a curious way, not necessarily like in a, uh, cynical way. Right, right.

Linda Rhodes: Yeah.

Megan Sprinkle: really gonna set you up for success, uh, is kind of like a, preamble here, which is super exciting. So, fast [00:06:00] forwarding a little bit, you, you talked about.

Working the, the land and, and really connecting with animals And so you go to vet school, and you commented that it was always a guy who was the vet. Did you even stop to wonder, is this something that I will, will be able to, to do?

Or did you just set your mind to it and go get your biology courses and, and apply? How is that?

Linda Rhodes: So I didn't know anything about veterinary medicine when I started. I'd never worked in a vet clinic. we took our cats to the vet. it was always a guy. But, it never occurred to me that women weren't welcome until I started to take my pre-vet biology courses that I had to take. And I was at SUNY Binghamton and, you know, I just looked up what the requirements were for Cornell and Penn, which were the only two schools I thought I could apply to. I didn't even know there was such a thing as a pre-vet advisor. but when I was taking my first, I think the first [00:07:00] course I took was microbiology. My teacher said, oh, you wanna be a veterinarian? You, you should go talk to Dr. So-and-so, he runs the pre-vet program. And I thought, oh, I didn't know there was a pre-vet.

so I went and met with him and. When I walked in the office, he just said, oh, just forget it. Women don't get into vet school. it's extremely rare that women get into vet school and, you know, unless your father was a vet or, know, you grew up on a farm or you know, you were in four H for years, or you volunteered at a vet clinic for years, you don't have a chance.

Cornell maybe takes three women per year, two or three. Penn maybe takes two or three. you're just not gonna ever go to vet school. I walked outta that office saying, I am going to vet school.

Megan Sprinkle: I.

Linda Rhodes: I was just like, I wanted to prove that guy wrong. And he was so obnoxious and so dismissive, and I thought, how hard could it really [00:08:00] be? I can do this. but then I realized, okay, I have to get a straight A's on all my bio courses. I can't, I mean, organic chemistry I had to take and, four bio courses and I knew I had to get straight A's, I just said, I'm gonna get straight A's. And I just worked my heart out and, I was very fortunate to get into Penn. 

Megan Sprinkle: so kind of having that experience with this advisor, you knew you were successful, you got in, what were you expecting when you walked in, like the first day to vet school?

Linda Rhodes: Well, I was fortunate in that Penn had about three years prior, been pressured by the faculty to admit more women. And so my starting class was 40% women, which was really quite unusual. but. I didn't know what to expect. I knew it was gonna be hard. I knew it was gonna be hard, but I didn't realize how hard, and it was tough.

The first semester was [00:09:00] really hard, because most of my classmates had a lot more biology than I did. They'd already taken anatomy and physiology and biochemistry and all, all those kinds of courses, and I'd never taken any of those courses. I was, uh, late nights and all weekends, and nose to the grindstone pretty much all the time.

And it was, really pretty intimidating. but I did okay.

Megan Sprinkle: Just gotta survive it. So, well, did you, I mean, again, coming from your experience in California, working with goats and, and things like that, did you, through the whole time of vet school and of course getting out, think that you would be focused on farm animal mix? Like what, what were your thoughts and did that change at all during vet school?

Linda Rhodes: Yeah, no, from the very beginning I was just like all about being on the farm. That's what I wanted to do. I, I, you know, you have to do, dog and cat and chicken I always wanted to do, uh, mainly dairy. I was interested in goats, but I was [00:10:00] also interested in dairy. uh, the way that Penn is set up is that there's the main campuses in , downtown Philadelphia, but all their large animal stuff is out at, at New Bolton Center, which is about an hour west of, Philly. on Saturdays they had rounds and any student could come out for Saturday morning rounds and you'd be in the barn. And so I tried to go every Saturday so I could. I could be around farm animals and it was hard because I didn't have a car, so I'd have to find somebody who was gonna be driving. And we had to leave really early in the morning. 'cause rounds started I think at 7: 30 in the morning. So we have to leave at like six 30 or six to get out there. but I tried to go almost every weekend so I could have some connection with, Barn. And every time there was a choice of some elective you could take, I would always choose something related to cows, or goats. and. Yeah, I knew from the very beginning I was very kinda laser focused I couldn't believe my friends who were doing a combined VMD [00:11:00] PhD program, I would be like, why would you go to vet school if you were just gonna do research?

You know, just go do your PhD. I mean, but, you know, little did I know back then that I would eventually get a PhD as well. but then I was laser focused. I just wanted to be a rural, large animal vet, and that's, that's what I was working towards. 

Megan Sprinkle: As we were discussing, I got to read , the first part of your book that you're going to publish here in February, and you're describing an early. call to a farm. So I, I'm curious you, it was, I'll spoiler alert, it's successful, but what do you feel like prepared you the most to start jumping into being full veterinarian?

, Before we get to the other, , parts of the job, but like when it comes to taking care of the animals, like why you went to vet school, what do you think prepared you the most for that?

Linda Rhodes: Yeah, that's a hard [00:12:00] question. I tried very hard to get as much experience as possible, but you never have enough. Experience to feel totally confident. The first time you do a procedure and particularly a surgical procedure where you are it, you're in the barn, you know, you're not in a hospital, you don't have technicians, you don't have people who can help you. You just have to take it on yourself and, um, it's very scary. It's very intimidating and you just have to take a deep breath and say. I'm it, you know, if I don't solve this problem, there's not anybody, I can't look over my shoulder and say, okay, doc, you, you take over here. You know, um, like you do when you're in school, you know, they let you do stuff, but there's always one or two people standing behind you who can step in and save your rear end if you need saving. But, you know, I think was, I was a little bit older. I had been out of school for a while, so I was about. Three or four years older than most of my classmates. you know, I had all that experience [00:13:00] on the farm. I just, I just was brave enough to take it on. But it, it is intimidating and , there were moments when I was just thinking, you know, what am I doing here? And I actually, , I talk in the book about Elaine Hamill, who was one of my mentors at Penn, a woman who, did large animal work, and I remember calling her the first year I was in practice and saying, Elaine, when do you, do you stop feeling terrified?

You know, the, they call you in the middle of the night and they tell you about some catastrophe and you know, you have to go out and deal with it. And you think, oh my God, how am I gonna deal with this? When do you stop being scared? And I was thinking, you know, once you get 10 years of experience under your belt, you know you're never rattled by anything. She said, Linda, you never stop being scared. You just stop showing it. And that was just such a piece of wisdom and it just gave me permission to realize everybody feels that it's not just me that's inadequate, it's, just how it is. You know, you, you [00:14:00] can't feel confident about everything. You know, there are always gonna be situations where you feel like you can't handle it.

You just do the best you can. You know, you're in a situation where if you don't do something, the animal dies. You just do the best you can. And if the animal dies anyway, well. You did the best you could with what you had. So I just kept that mantra in my, in my head, and that helped me a lot. 

Megan Sprinkle: Well, so you did get a position, what took you all the way to, to Utah because, is that where you started? In Utah?

Linda Rhodes: Yes.

Megan Sprinkle: That's quite a trip.

Linda Rhodes: Yeah, I, I wanted to practice in upstate New York. I grew up in Rochester, New York, and I was married at the time and my husband was in a band, he was a hippie musician, and he was in a band with his brothers and he loved playing music. And he was based in Ithaca. And Ithaca is right in the center of the dairy world.

, There's lots and lots of dairy cows in that area. So I, that I was planning on getting a job there. and I started interviewing my senior year. [00:15:00] I had more than a dozen interviews and I couldn't get find a job. , They were not hiring women, period. , They

Megan Sprinkle: Specifically women, they told you that.

Linda Rhodes: oh yeah, well I would never hire a woman for this job. Or honey, look at you. You know, , you just blow away in a, in a breeze. You know, how are you gonna push the cows around or, or, my wife wouldn't like it if I was riding around in a truck with a woman. I mean, they, nobody would hire a woman. And they made it crystal clear. And there's a couple of stories in the book about my job interviews, which were really pretty harrowing. So I just, my parents had moved to California and I decided maybe in California it would be easier. You know, it's just a more liberal place. I'll go out to California. California was worse. I couldn't, I could not even get an interview in California. They just flat out said we would never hire a woman. so I, I basically was like at a dead end and I took a small animal job because I was, my student loans came due, and I lived with my parents and I [00:16:00] was practicing in a way that I didn't wanna practice. And my husband was 3000 miles away. And I was like, what is going on with my life? I mean, this was just like a disaster. I had a friend who was doing an internship at Utah State. They didn't have a vet school then they had a, they had an animal, dairy and vet science department and she was in their diagnostic lab. and she. me and said that they had a, there was a clinical internship that was just basically helping them take care of their dairy and their beef cattle and their sheep and goat institute. And they hired a new grad, a big Mormon guy from Colorado. And, she called me and she said that, that job is available now. And I said, what do you mean? It's like September, it's a job for a new grad. They hired somebody in May. said, yeah, but , he got kicked by a cow and broke both his legs. And he's out. And so now they have an open position and it's for a new grad and new, all the new grads already have jobs, so they're desperate. They might consider hiring you. So, uh, I drove all the way out to [00:17:00] Utah and had an interview and they were kinda like. No, they, you know, I mean it was a weird interview but they were very skeptical of me.

And so I drove all the way back to California and a , couple weeks later I called them and said, what's up? And they said, oh, we can't find anybody. And we've, you know, we've looked and all the new grads already have jobs and it's really hard because now I'm having to go out in the middle of the night and do the calvings and my wife is upset with me.

'cause that's the intern's job. On and on and on and on. And I just was listening, you know, and listening. there was a long pause and he said, you know, we really pretty desperate, so we, I guess we're just gonna have to give you a chance. And that was my first job. Okay.

Megan Sprinkle: Thanks. Wow.

Linda Rhodes: That's how I ended up in Utah. And you know what? I was happy because I didn't care if they were desperate. I wanted the job. I wanted to work with cows, and that was a big part of the job. So I went to Utah.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, well, my [00:18:00] goodness, so many thoughts. One, it's completely understandable to to question yourself 'cause everybody else seems to be questioning you. That doesn't really help your confidence at, at all. But then also, you're right, it's, it's like, how can I learn? How can I even start to show people what I can do?

I, I'm not even being given a chance. So that's really frustrating. So yeah.

Linda Rhodes: it was a, it was a very hard time. I, I came close to giving up when I was doing the small animal work and, you know, taking care of little yappy poodles in Pasadena, California. And I was just like, this is not what I signed up for. I mean, I was okay. I, at least I was practicing, I was making some money, but it was not what I wanted.

And I, I came really close to giving up, I'm glad I didn't.

Megan Sprinkle: Well, I'm glad you didn't either. So, I mean, the heavens opened up. You, you had the opportunity. So how did it start, like it shared those first experiences as of [00:19:00] being in Utah? Because again, this is very different from a, uh, other places you've lived. Like Utah's a different culture.

Linda Rhodes: Yeah, very. All my, all my colleagues were Mormons. I got given a lot of Books of Mormon, . , I actually liked it. I mean, it, it was very different from me. They certainly had very different beliefs than I had, but. One of the wonderful things about a Mormon community is they take care of each other, , because I was taking care of their cows, I kind of became an honorary member of their community. So when I needed something, they were there for me. It was, really a wonderful experience. And even though we differed wildly in our beliefs and our kind of, even our politics, , we didn't really talk about that. We talked about the cows and they were very happy. , After a couple of years, and they got used to the fact that I could do what I could do I was kind of a in demand because I was the only woman vet, large animal vet in the whole state. And. I was pretty good at my job and they used [00:20:00] to brag to each other, Hey, I, I got that lady cow vet taking care of my cows. It was like a badge of honor, you know, because I had to turn clients away 'cause I didn't have enough time for everybody. And so the dairies, I did take care of some of the best dairies in Utah and Idaho in that area.

And, and thank god those dairymen accepted me because if they hadn't, I would've not ever been able to practice there because there was, there was real dairy royalty in that area. I mean, people who, they sent embryos to Japan and they had the, some of the highest milking cows in the world there and really, really high quality dairies. And those guys, they didn't care that I was a girl. I could have been purple and from Mars if I showed up and I took good care of their cows. They were happy. And that was really wonderful.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. So you just had to, to show that you cared and you could do the job and, yeah. it may have been a really lucky opportunity that that was where [00:21:00] it ended it all up. Now, you talked about your husband was doing music. Did he join you in Utah, or how did, how did that work?

Linda Rhodes: he very reluctantly left his life to come out to Utah. I think always hoping that it was, since it was an internship, it would just be over quickly and we'd go back to upstate New York. But I knew I wasn't gonna get a job in upstate New York. And I got right out of the internship, I got offered a job , in a practice in Utah and Idaho. So he came out and. He really didn't like it. He really missed his family. He was, came from a very close knit Italian family where everybody played music and he just didn't like it. And by the end of two or three years in, in Utah, we ended up splitting up and he went back to Ithaca and he's still there playing music.

I actually saw him a couple weeks ago, listened to him play a swing dance at a, a Quaker meeting house. And, um. You know, we just had to go our [00:22:00] separate ways because we had very different lives.

Megan Sprinkle: Uh, and sorry if I'm getting too personal, but I do know that being a parent is a big part, uh, of a, something that you're passionate about too. So did you have a child during those times or when did the baby come?

Linda Rhodes: No, you know, I, 

could barely like. Cook dinner, much less think about having a child. When I was working in Utah, no, I, I didn't, I was not focused on having kids at all. I, and I actually back then was saying I didn't wanna have kids. I was so wedded to, to my career. It wasn't it until many years later. I went to California and I did some practice out there.

I came back east, and when I was about. How old was I? 32 or 33? I was back east trying to figure out what I wanted to do next. I had gotten accepted to a PhD program at Cornell, and I by chance met a guy who ended up being my second husband.

Megan Sprinkle: [00:23:00] Ah.

Linda Rhodes: He was, he was Israeli, he is Israeli. and, we got together and I still wasn't really thinking about having a child.

I didn't have my son until I was 42. So several more years went by and I was in the PhD program and I finished the PhD program. I was starting my first job, and, um, I just decided it was time. And so we, we had a son who's now 34 years old.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. Well, let's come back. 'cause I know he's a big part of your story in the book and all, all the things. So, I think it is important to go back cause you talked about you, you weren't even thinking about that when you are practicing, it's a very intense job. Again, the story that it starts the book out is you came home from a, a long day, barely got.

Settled and, got a phone call and had to go right back out. So it's a very intensive career that you're, you were passionate about, and being very successful at, at that and building a [00:24:00] community. but especially with large animal too, it's a physically very demanding job. you mentioned going and, and doing a PhD. What was. The transition between, getting to be, the badge of honor that people had you as their vet to deciding it's, it's time for a change.

Linda Rhodes: Yeah, I, you know, after about five years of practice, I used to say it's like 95% routine, 5% panic.

I was good at what I did. I went out every day. I did it. I showed up, I did the emergencies, and, the challenge wasn't there anymore. the next mountain to climb wasn't there. and I saw these old vets who'd been practicing for 20 or 30 years. You know, they never traveled. they didn't have time to read stuff, they didn't have time to have other interests, and it just seemed like too much of a routine to me. I was thinking about [00:25:00] maybe I'll go to Africa and, and work with the UN and try and deal with. Parasites and cattle in Africa or just something different.

I just wanted something different. I did a lot of exploring of other job possibilities and, I just stumbled into the PhD. It was just by chance, I was living in Ithaca and I was doing some bovine relief work where I'd go in and take over a practice if somebody wanted to take a vacation or something.

And, and Cornell had a, professor who taught bovine palpation, reproduction, and he had a heart attack and it was right in the middle of the semester. And, they were desperate to have somebody teach that lab and they called me and , you know, it was only like 10 hours a week or something but it got me on campus. Then I was like, oh, there's this whole world, there's this whole academic world with books and libraries and research and people, curious people, and it just like looked really attractive to me. And I said, [00:26:00] you know, I'm willing to walk away from practice. And just do something completely different. And I, you know, if I had, could have been a practicing vet one day a week and done my PhD the rest of the time, I would've done that because I really loved practice.

But, I ended up working on a research project that involved sheep. And part of my fellowship was I had to take care of the sheep. So I was out at the sheep barn a lot, so I still had some, you know, I was trimming feed and I was giving vaccinations and I was dealing with wounds. And so I still kept my hand in a little bit in the barn. it was just great to go to research conferences and travel and have access to the library and a lot of interesting, thoughtful people who were doing interesting things. And my life was ready to swing in that direction.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, my mind went back to your, your parents, the, the curious nature, the reading and, and the thirst to learn and ask questions and academic setting, uh, can definitely be a good place to do that. So [00:27:00] that's neat. And, and again. Being able to take care of animals. You still had some connection back to the to mother Earth.

Linda Rhodes: Yeah, I did. I was, it was before I went, I did the fellowship at Cornell. I did a sabbatical in Israel because I wasn't married yet and I wanted to meet my. Future husband's family and see his country. And so I got a six month, job, teaching embryo transfer to the Israeli veterinarians,

Megan Sprinkle: Wow.

Linda Rhodes: which was also challenging because there were no women.

, All the large animal vets were men. but they gave me a little EO and they gave me some lab equipment and I went from kibbutz to kibbutz teaching all the vets how to do embryo transfer in Israel. So that was, pretty fun. And I have pictures of me doing rectal exams on camels. 'cause I was really interested in camel reproduction too.

So I have some wild pictures with my arm up the back end of a camel.

Megan Sprinkle: Well, I will say, as I told you before, I listened to a, another podcast that you have been [00:28:00] on and you talked about, uh, palpation and that you worked very hard at it, and it, , it's a hard skill and that made me feel so much better because I will say in vet school I felt so silly. They would say, you should be filling this, this, and this.

And I'm like, Nope.

Linda Rhodes: We used to, we used to call that the hope and grope method. Like, I hope I can feel the ovary. Maybe if I grope around long enough, I'll find it.. 

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. Oh, well, that's what a, an exciting transition into a, a different path for you. Um, so how, how did you start to get involved in more the industry side coming out of academia?

Linda Rhodes: Well, , my dream was to teach in a vet school. But again, there were just no jobs and there were also very few women being hired and, . Basically they told me if you wanna do a couple more postdocs to do more research experience or if you wanna get board certified, you have to go back and do a [00:29:00] residency. And I just didn't wanna do more training. I mean, I had already been in practice and , I was getting older and I was ready for a real job. and I just stumbled across an opening at, uh, a company Merck in New Jersey to do some animal model work, in reproduction and endocrinology, which was what my PhD was in.

And, I went down to interview and I wasn't thrilled about living in New Jersey, but the job was a really good fit for my skillset and. The pay was phenomenal and I had been poor for many years playing off my student loans and you know, not making much money in practice and then being a PhD student and not making hardly any money at all and having really hefty student loan payments. I hadn't been able to save anything. I didn't own a home, I was really happy to make a good salary. So frankly, that was a big part of my decision. And again, it was something new. It was research, it was learning about drug development. It was [00:30:00] living in a different place and entering a brand new industry.

And, you know, I was kind of ready for it.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. What, what was that like? Uh, you know, I, I hear a theme of, you know, they weren't hiring women, and that that tends to be a challenge. Well, even today, some of there's, there's still not maybe the, the most balanced representation and. In industry, especially in leadership. So , what were you experiencing just kind of growing your career in industry?

Linda Rhodes: it's a really good question. The one of the through lines of my career has been advocacy for women, I have been, I have become bolder and bolder in calling out organizations and institutes that are discriminating and just frankly are discriminating. I hope that I've changed some things. I think that I have had an impact in that regard in, in industry particularly. , I like to say to these [00:31:00] folks, , you're selling animal health drugs and vaccines to veterinarians, and you might not have noticed. But a lot of the veterinarians are women. Your customers have changed. It's not all guys anymore. And so maybe you should think about changing leadership roles in industry to be more in tune with your customers. And that seems to resonate with some of these companies. But yes, when I started, again, you know, I faced discrimination. At Merck, to say that it, it, wasn't a glass ceiling, it was a dense layer of white men, you know, they just bumped up against, it's like they all looked the same. They all dressed the same. They, they all went to Harvard, Yale, or Princeton. You know, there are no women. Everybody's a runner at Merck. Everybody was a runner, you know, that was, it was just. There was no diversity at all. yeah, so I struggled with [00:32:00] that and I, I did switch jobs a couple of times and, um, finally I just said, I, I just don't wanna deal with it anymore. And I had an idea for a business and I said, I'm gonna just quit and start my own business By, luckily by then I'd saved up enough money. My son was about 10 years old. my husband had bought a small animal practice. He was a, he was a veterinarian and he was practicing in a small animal practice.

So we had some financial security and, I just decided I didn't wanna put up with it anymore. And I figured I'd start my own business and it would be a woman friendly business. And it was good. And I, the first person I hired, she came to work for me for like. 30% cut in her salary because I told her I would have no problem with her getting pregnant and having a baby.

And if, if her baby had an ear infection, she could stay home. she was happy to come and work for me and, we're still friends. She did end up having three kids and, and I, I made a company that was women friendly and it was [00:33:00] transformative. A lot of those women then went to work for other companies and. Transform those companies. And so yeah, it was very, very fulfilling. But yeah, I was, I was in industry for about 10 years working for somebody else when I started my own business. 

Megan Sprinkle: Well, going back to while you were still in industry and kind of talking about how you were inspired to make a women-friendly business going forward. Is that it sounded like it was a really demanding time and you had a baby and I think. I remember again, listening to that podcast episode where you got to a point where you, you were feeling overwhelmed and really needed somebody to kind of give you advice of being mom and career woman, and, , that was the person that you said was.

Maybe one of the bigger mentors that you've actually had in your entire career journey. So what was that moment where you were really starting to struggle? 'cause I, I think just, uh, this is really common. , And so being able to share [00:34:00] this will be really helpful for people. But what was that like, kind of those feelings coming and reaching out to see if anybody had a, a word of wisdom or a little bit of hope to give you?

Linda Rhodes: Yeah. it is a tough thing and it still is tough for women. , I was fortunate in that. You know, I was, I had the finances to afford good childcare. but we only got eight weeks of maternity leave, and then I had three weeks of vacation. So after 11 weeks I had to go back to work and my mother-in-law came over from Israel for a month.

But when my son was four months old, I put him in daycare and I was nursing, and didn't know anything about. Pumping milk. There was no infrastructure. There was no place to pump milk at work. it was a really difficult. Exhausting time and, and I was being asked to travel even internationally when I had this nursing baby.

And yeah, I was fortunate in that, a woman who'd been at Merck for, [00:35:00] I don't know, maybe two or three years more than I had, who had two young kids. And yeah, I just leaned on her. She just gave me a lot of encouragement and she just said, you know, one of the things she told me is. Don't do the PTA. She was like, you don't have to be class mom.

You don't have to show up at the PTA. You don't have to feel guilty that you don't sew a Halloween costume. You know, don't, don't let those pressures get to you. Just focus on what's really important. Focus on being with your baby, being with your kids, having quality time, and you know, you don't have to do it all.

Hire somebody to clean your house. you know, try to get the, your support network in place. But just work nine to five. Just don't feel guilty. Leave when it's time to go pick up your son at daycare, you just go and your career will be fine. You won't, you know, you might not get that big promotion, but. don't need it at this stage in your career. You, [00:36:00] can just do your 40 hours a week and have time for your family. And, , it was really helpful to, to hear that. And she was right that it did impact my career. You can't have it all. T he men that progressed up the ladder, all of them had stay-at-home wive. All of them. So they had a full-time person who was taking care of their kids and doing the cooking and the dental appointments and , getting the car fixed and all those chores that they could be 12 hours at work every day. you know, I didn't have that and most women don't. So, we looked to other women who had navigated this and luckily after a couple of years, Merck, opened an onsite daycare. So, it made it much easier because then I could just take my son with me to work and drop him off at work. And then if during, in the middle of the day if I needed to be there, I could be there.

It was very, very close by to my research lab. And it was subsidized, so it wasn't so [00:37:00] expensive. yeah, I mean, without good childcare, it's not, it's just impossible.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, as someone who has had a baby not too long ago, I, I'm still in the nursing stage, so she's almost 15 months. I've spent a lot of time traveling. Uh, since she's been born and it is still really hard, um, the stories I could share and, and that's with a very female dominated space. That's with all as far as we have gone.

Like, there's still opportunity. So again, I think it's so wonderful to hear the supporting encouragement from people. Um, especially the ones who have done it, you know, it's like, yeah. It's it's gonna be hard, but you can do it. Focus here. Um, this is what's really meaningful. And, just having that, that encouragement I think is really important.

Linda Rhodes: and what I will say is that I was way too involved in my work. I didn't have hobbies. I did, I wasn't exercising. I'm an overachiever, so I wanted to do everything possible at work I could do to, [00:38:00] to be successful. And I was just obsessed about, you know, who got which promotions and well, who got, who was working on which projects and all the details of my research.

And just work, work, work, work, work all the time. When I had Adam, my son, that just instantly went away. It was like a magic button was pressed, which was that, you know, wonderful love you have for your child, and work just did not seem so important anymore. I mean, it wasn't that I didn't achieve at work.

I did everything I needed to do at work, but I left it at at the door when I left and I came home and I was in love with my child and it was so much healthier. It was so much healthier. And I, you know, I just treasured those bath times and reading times and nap times and play times. And I could just let go of all the drama of work, which turned out to be not so important anyway, frankly, and, really have a better life.

And it, it, it [00:39:00] tr it was transformative. So, you know, when young women ask me about, you know, should, I'm trying to decide whether I should have kids or not have kids. I just tell them it will change your life in a positive way. no matter what the situation is. You will be madly in love with your baby and it will change you in, in profound ways.

And, for me, in extremely positive ways. So I, I, I had Adam when I was quite old. I was 42. And joked with people that it's, it's a good thing I didn't do this when I was in my mid twenties. 'cause I would've had a dozen kids, you know, I would've, but by the time I was 42 I couldn't get pregnant again.

And I was just, had to let it go. But, but yeah, I love being a mom. 

Megan Sprinkle: thinking about words of wisdom, you've, you've talked quite a bit about. Parenting and kind of managing it. It's good to still care about your job, but you also, you leave the, the silly stuff where, you know, worrying about who's getting promotions or things like that. Like you said, you're an advocate [00:40:00] for women and, So there's opportunities for us to focus in more on certain things that are, are more important to get where we wanna go, to be at the table if we wanna be at the table. so I heard you talk about, the importance of connections and building relationships and making sure that you're not too heads down what are your thoughts around when it comes to prioritizing or making sure that you're implementing something, to feel like you are doing the right things, uh, the helpful things to get where you wanna go in your career?

What, what's your advice?

Linda Rhodes: Well, maybe this is a little bit gender stereotyping, but I think in general, women intrinsically believe that if they do a really, really good job, they will be recognized and promoted. And so they focus sometimes exclusively on doing a really, really good [00:41:00] job, you know, doing all the details, showing up on time, getting projects completed on schedule, being strategic in how they tackle the work, whatever the work is. but they forget about relationships. And in my experience, the most important way to progress in your career is to develop relationships and maybe spending. Maybe not as much time on relationships as on work, but a significant amount of time connecting with people that you work with and building your network. because people promote their friends. And people refer their friends to good jobs if somebody trusts you, and feels connected to you, you have a much better chance at getting assigned on that suite project you really wanna get assigned to. if that [00:42:00] person. Only knows you by your work product, but they don't have a relationship with you. They're not gonna think about you for that position. I watched a lot of men progress up the ladder, particularly at Merck. Solely on relationships. I could look at what we did, what we delivered in terms of drug development and progress on big projects in the company, and I would've done 10 x what they would've done. And I didn't get those promotions. I mean, part of it was I was a woman, but a lot of it was I just did not spend time building relationships and it's really served me well in my career when I finally figured that out. And I'll, I'll tell you, I, I, this seems like an odd thing to mention, but , I'm rereading Tolstoy's War and Peace, is a novel that I love.

I'm big on 19th century novels. Tolstoy has a section in there that actually says that one of his characters who's in the military. [00:43:00] Remarks to another person that the reason he's progressed so much isn't based on his work, his family connections, his money, it's solely based on developing relationships with people who are in a position to promote him. There's a little paragraph that I just read a couple days ago and I went, you know.

Megan Sprinkle: It was there.

Linda Rhodes: I knew this back in 1867 when War and Peace was, was written. He was 42 years old. it's a truism and women just, I for many times just don't, been taught that, have never really, we think it all should be fair.

You know, if you do a really good job and you do good work, you're gonna, you're gonna get what you deserve. It, just not true. that's my, that's my words of wisdom is, is just develop relationships with people and, and they can be, I mean, this is why this whole thing about men playing golf together is such a trope, you know, it, [00:44:00] it's true.

I mean, spend some time on building friendships and connections with people who are in a position to promote you.

Megan Sprinkle: Hmm. Well, and I think you're giving forward, in this too by starting a, a movement where you are recognizing women for both the work that they're doing, but it also creates a network opportunity. So you've created something pretty amazing, the, the feather in her cap. Award.

Do you wanna share a little bit about that? Um, I got to learn about it a couple years ago, and I think it's a, it's a really fantastic initiative.

Linda Rhodes: Yeah, I'm so proud of Feather in a Cap. I got frustrated that, the only award in the animal health industry, it's called the Iron Paw Award, was given by the Kansas City. animal health corridor was only given to men for 12 years in a row. and I got together some of my women friends in industry and said, you know, what do you think if we just give an award to a woman? And they were like. [00:45:00] Great idea. You know, I was a little worried that people would say, oh, well it's kind of discriminatory and, but I thought, you know what? The Iron P award is only going to men. Let's just do an award , that recognizes senior women that are high achieving women in the animal health industry. And my women friends were all for it. And so we started it up and it has just been a terrific success. The first year we had. All the major companies supported us. We had a big event. we have it every year at VMX in Orlando. cocktail hour, and a dinner and an award ceremony. and it's just gotten bigger and bigger every year and a lot of women. Show up to it. And a lot of it's, it's the place to be seen at VMX. If you're in the animal health industry. The CEOs of all the major companies come, the senior executives come, startup companies come. it's just been terrific and we've recognized a number of women.

I think this year's, our ninth year, I purpose stepped back from the board because I wanted. I wanted [00:46:00] to continue without me leading it. So I haven't been involved in planning it for the last three years, and it's doing great and it's still growing and they're raising tons of money and, it's really one of the things I also really like about it is now there's three awards.

There's a award for a woman entrepreneur. There's kind of a lifetime achievement award, and then there's an award for a younger woman who's been in in industry for five years or so. That is a kind of an up and coming award. Um. And we celebrate all the nominees. So it's not just the people who win, we celebrate everybody. And that gives them tremendous visibility in the industry. And I really do think it has changed the industry. I think it has made people aware of the talent that's available. And certainly there are more women in leadership positions now than there were 10 years ago.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, well, I think just by how eager people were to support it from an industry perspective, also it shows a clear change in honestly. [00:47:00] Really a brief period of time. so that's really encouraging and I think there's, of course more opportunities going forward, but that can also be inspiring for us to do something about it.

I think that's it too, right? Like not being afraid to, especially if we are already in those positions to support others behind us to be seen and heard. Give them opportunities as well. well, I know we're running outta time and, I've cited your book a couple of times and absolutely love it already.

And I'm like, first chapter in, um, you're a wonderful writer. and one of the things that I really loved when I asked you is, what inspired you to write this book? And it, it kind of goes back to, , being a mom and again, , sharing your wisdom going forward.

Linda Rhodes: Well, I'll show people my book. This is the book. are, those are pictures of me when I was 30 years old in practice. the cow on the cover, her name is Pinky, and my son took a look at this top picture and he, he said, mom, you look like Top Gun, you know, striding [00:48:00] along and your coveralls with your dark glasses on.

Megan Sprinkle: You do think about that. Next time you're walking you are like.

Linda Rhodes: I thought it was so funny. So this is, you know, I, I've, it's to my son Adam. I started this many, many years ago because, um, sadly my mother died when she was 58, and I was in my thirties and, you know, I was so obsessed with being a vet and my career that, you know, I had really not ever sat down and asked her about her life and about her history and about how she met my dad and about how she gave up college to be a mom.

And there's just so many things that I wished I had known about her, I realized that. I had my son when I was 42, so by the time he's in his thirties, he, which he is now, I'll be 77 this coming May. he's not interested in asking me questions at this point. He would never know about this [00:49:00] world. I mean, this is a completely different world.

I was, when I had him, I was in the pharmaceutical industry I realized I better start writing down some of these stories so that when he turns 50 and he suddenly decides he's interested in his mother and I'm long gone, he'll at least have the book. So, that, that's what got me started.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, and I hear that, uh, there might be another one in the future too. So, stay tuned. Follow her. She has amazing website. , And I also wanna thank you, um, even though you are an. Air quotes retired.

You are still extremely active in the veterinary community supporting innovation. Um, you're being able to see some of the, uh, really cool leading things in our, our profession, and I wanna thank you for continuing to support that. , But as we close, the question that I love to end with is what is something you're very grateful for right now?

Linda Rhodes: Hmm. Well actually I would, I would have to say my health, the [00:50:00] older you get, the more precarious things can be with your health. And I've just been. Super fortunate to be healthy enough , to continue to contribute. you know, I think second to that, it's really all the colleagues that have been so supportive over the years.

And, know, all as I talk about making connections and friendship, , it's not just to get ahead, it's also because you develop this ecosystem of people who care about you and you care about. And it's just been so. Fulfilling. And this industry in particular seems to be very much a community, to have so many friends in the industry who they're curious about what I'm up to.

I'm curious about what they're up to. And, you know, being healthy enough to enjoy that network. It's, it's a real blessing. So yeah, it's, uh, it's my health and it's my wonderful friends in the industry. 

Megan Sprinkle: What an incredible conversation. I think Dr. Linda has more energy than I do. [00:51:00] I appreciate her experience and agree that it's building genuine relationships that will be what we are grateful for after all the years of hard work. I also appreciate her advocacy and work to recognize the efforts of other women in our field.

Speaking of advocacy. I can give you an update on the Feather in her Cap awards while I recorded this conversation with Dr. Linda before VMX. The 2026 awards have now taken place and they added a fourth award, the champion of Women in Animal Health to honor individuals who demonstrated sustained commitment to mentoring.

Sponsoring and advocating for women's advancement in our industry. You can find the full press release about this year's winners in the show notes, along with all the other resources we mentioned today. And don't forget about Dr. Linda's amazing memoir, breaking the Barnyard barrier. Head to linda rhodes.com to get your copy and learn more about her incredible journey.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and share it with someone who you think might [00:52:00] appreciate Dr. Linda's story. And until next time. Keep reimagining what's possible in veterinary life.