How to Find the Right Veterinary Job (and Thrive in It) with Dr. Shannon Bass

Veterinary career paths aren’t one-size-fits-all. In this episode, Vet Life Reimagined guest, Dr. Shannon Bass, shares how she’s navigated general practice, ER, acupuncture, recruiting, and leadership by staying true to her values of connection and curiosity. Now VP of Medical Leadership at Vets Pets, Shannon offers practical advice on job interviews, leadership, and building a career that actually supports your wellbeing.

Whether you’re new to the field or reevaluating your next move, you’ll find inspiration and actionable tips in this conversation.

Resources:

• Video episode on YouTube
• Get the podcast club guide for this episode

Transcript

[00:00:00] It's just this positive feedback loop of feeling like I'm making a difference and wanting to keep doing that.

Megan Sprinkle: Welcome to Vet Life Reimagined. I teased this week's guest in last week's solo episode, and I'm especially excited to introduce Dr. Shannon Bass because not only is she full of thoughtful insight, but we first connected through the Florida VMAs Certificate in Veterinary Workplace Wellbeing, which we both just completed last week.

I've been able to connect with her several times over the course of the past few months, and I am so impressed by her authenticity and wisdom. This episode has dozens of tips for finding a job that fits and helping you navigate life and career in veterinary medicine. Dr. Shannon Bass is a veterinarian with a rich and varied career that spanned from general practice, emergency medicine, acupuncture, specialty hospital leadership, veterinary recruiting, and now organizational leadership. She currently [00:01:00] serves as Vice President of Medical Leadership at Vets Pets in North Carolina, and she's an active leader in organized veterinary medicine as the North Carolina Alternative Delegate to the AVMA and chair of the NCVMA Disaster Response Committee.

In our conversation, Shannon shares how she's navigated different career chapters, why connection is her superpower, and how intentionality and support systems have shaped her journey as both a mom and a veterinary leader. From frontline care to national leadership, she brings a unique view of what's possible when we work together and stay curious to what we need to thrive.

Let's get to the conversation with Dr. Shannon Bass.

When did you know you were interested in veterinary medicine at all?

Shannon Bass: I am the stepdaughter of a veterinarian, and so my dad married my stepmother, Dr. Roth, when I was in elementary school, [00:02:00] and this was back in the day when there weren't emergency clinics, so veterinarians were basically on call all the time to see their own emergencies. So very early, I would end up accompanying her to emergencies in her practice and, looking back on it, very inappropriately assisting her with emergencies in her practice as a middle school and a high school student, and definitely became captivated by that exposure.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. What do you think was it that captivated you so much?

Shannon Bass: I think it was a whole combination of she saw everything. So she saw exotics, dogs, cats, some small ruminants, things like that. She would treat horses for friends. She didn't do horses as paid, but she, her family had horses and so we would sometimes go out and do horse stuff. So it was just the variety and seeing that she made them better was really cool, and how much that care [00:03:00] meant to the owners. And so just really seeing, I think, veterinary medicine in action and wanting to to be like that. And then as I got a little bit older and I was truly evaluating careers, she had carved out a lifestyle that worked beautifully.

She would take a two hour lunch and sometimes she would go ride her horse during that two hours. Sometimes she would go home and start dinner. Super funny, one time she decided that during that two hour lunch we were gonna replace the linoleum in the kitchen floor. Her and me and I was in high school and we didn't go back to the clinic that afternoon.

That is, um, turns out more than a lunchtime project. Um, but she had carved out this life that I thought, I wanna do this.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. Uh, wow. What a, a great example of capturing all the values that you were developing. So as you were. Working your way to vet school as we all do, especially when we've identified it pretty young. What were [00:04:00] some of your, your journeys up to, like applying to vet school, anything that kind of stands out to keep you on that path or.

Shannon Bass: When I was an undergrad, I went to Texas A&M for both undergrad and vet school. And when I was an undergrad, I went through a time period where I thought maybe I wanna be an MD. And so I had some friends that connected me with female MDs to speak with them about their career path. And that was really helpful because they did not have this balance that I saw my stepmother have. They were at the hospital all the time. This was also a time 'cause this was in the mid nineties, so there was a lot of volatility about where healthcare on the human side was going and insurance companies and things like that.

And so a lot of these women that I spoke with were pretty concerned about where their profession was going. And so it was good to spend a few months exploring that and then come back and say, no, veterinary medicine is, is really [00:05:00] what I want to do. And then in the nineties when you applied to vet school, you were notified via actual mail.

And so everybody knew that if you got the big packet that you got in and if you got the small letter that you didn't get in. People got notified over a period of a few days just because of the mail, right? Like sometimes the mail would come faster to one place or the other, so you'd be going to classes 'cause you were applying with the same group of people, right?

That you were in class with and you'd be going to classes and some people would've heard something and some people were still waiting. And so truly, I will never forget that mailbox moment of opening the mailbox and seeing this big packet from the vet school and knowing that I had gotten in so that that was a really big day.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, I mean, it's still exciting if you get the email that you open up and it says Congratulations, but it's just not quite the same.

Shannon Bass: I, I think so, because then you open the packet and there's like [00:06:00] the glossy brochure and there's all this information and you're holding it. And I do think that has to be different than just clicking the attachments. 

Megan Sprinkle: that is exciting. So, and again, you got to stay at Texas A&M, so from a a physical standpoint, everything kind of stayed the same, but still, I think you walk into vet school and there's parts of life that do change. So

Shannon Bass: Yes.

Megan Sprinkle: was your experience going into vet school? And I, I always love to ask this too, like you described , your stepmom's experience, and maybe that was a lot of the experience that you kind of had as a picture of veterinarian. But , what did you see yourself being and did that change your vision change over time during vet school?

Shannon Bass: So I love this question and I was just kind of addressing this with some vet students last week. I was talking, to some NC State students about what you think you wanna do now as you sit here as a vet student is probably not what you're gonna do for the next [00:07:00] 40, 50 years. Right? So I really thought I wanted to do what my stepmother did.

I really appreciated what I saw in her practice of getting to know animals at their first puppy or kitten visit, and then working with them through their whole life and things like that. And I thought that that was gonna really bring me a lot of joy in what I wanted to do, and then I ended up doing that job for two years as a small animal general practitioner, and realized it just was not for me and I didn't, I really didn't anticipate that at all.

 I was interested in emergency medicine as a vet student, but emergency medicine then was not what it is now at all. There were much fewer centers. You took care of a lot of your own emergencies, and so we didn't get a lot of education. We didn't do a lot of ER rotations. I actually left Texas A&M for a month and did an outside rotation at Colorado State because they were doing a lot of emergency care and ECC stuff at that [00:08:00] time.

And so that was really helpful education for me from an ER standpoint. So when I graduated, like most of us, I had some financial challenges that needed to earn some extra money. So I picked up ER shifts at a very busy emergency clinic in Dallas, Texas. So I was the fourth and sometimes the fifth emergency veterinarian working on a weekend day.

So I was doing my small animal GP job, but then on the weekends for extra money, I would pick up these ER shifts and it was great 'cause I was very supported. I was in no way alone. There were all these vets that were super helpful and I learned so much from the technicians at that location. I will also never forget the first heat stroke that came in.

And this dog was really very severely affected and I froze. Absolutely froze. But the techs were amazing. They said, would you like us to place an IV catheter? And I said, yes, yes, I would. And then they, would you like us to intubate him? Yes, I sure would. And so they walked me through the whole heat stroke response.[00:09:00] 

And that was a, a really huge moment where I learned how impressive those individuals are and, and how much I needed to follow their lead. But so through that, I need money, so I'm gonna pick up ER shifts experience. I was like, I love this. This really speaks to me in a way that general practice did not, and so I got offered my first ER job, so I graduated in 98.

I got offered my first ER job in 2000, and I remember saying to Dr. Messenger, who was my ER mentor and hired me into that job, I said, I'm just not sure I want this lifestyle. Like I'm the girl that wants the bars to close so I can go home and go to bed, if I'm out at night, right? Like, I don't think I wanna stay up all night.

I just don't think I want this. And he used the best recruiting line on me ever, which is, that's fine. So I just, I understand you don't love your current position, so why don't you take my job while you look for something you like better?

Megan Sprinkle: Ooh.[00:10:00] 

Shannon Bass: Yeah. Right. And I was like. Okay, that seems fine. And then I worked there from 2000 to 2017.

 Exactly. 

Megan Sprinkle: Well, and you did talk about, you know, one of the things that you noticed early on with your stepmom was that she had work life balance

Shannon Bass: mm-hmm.

Megan Sprinkle: And so you talked about the 17 year period. What was your work life balance like? I, I happen to know from previous conversations that you've had children too.

So how did that all work? So, something happened for you to stay for 17 years. So Tell us your experience.

Shannon Bass: I found amazing work-life balance personally as an emergency veterinarian because you're working way fewer days. Like the days are sometimes long. They are unpredictable in a way that my, my brain absolutely loved. But, there are fewer of them and so that allowed me to travel [00:11:00] before I had kids, but then once I had kids, I worked seven on seven off for a very, very long time.

And so I had a friend in my neighborhood that was home with her kids and so she would watch my kids on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday of my on weeks so I could sleep, or if I had a day shift so I could go to work. Right? But then on the weeks that I was off, I was a full-time mom. And so I got to flip flop from being a full-time mom to being really a full-time vet because I was working seven days in a row and, and those were seven twelves.

And so that was a lot. but I flip flopped from being a full-time mom to a full-time vet. And that worked for me. It worked for my family. I'm so fortunate to have a completely in husband that is what I call a 50 50 parent. He could do all the things with our kids that I could do. You know, he could dress them and put them to bed and, you know, all the, all the things.

So [00:12:00] super grateful for that. And I had a great village and, and that wasn't a family village. 'cause we live in North Carolina and all of our family still mostly in Texas. We have some scattered in other states, but we do not have family here. But we created a village that was largely neighborhood based.

And then as our kids got older, kind of. Kid, friend, school based, and those were the folks that when I had parenting questions or challenge that I could reach out to that I arranged carpools to everything for years, right. And I would figure out the times that my husband or I could do that, and then relied on other parents to help me at other times, and definitely had to let go of, I'm the only one that can take care of my child.

Or it has to be done just my way. It was my kids absolutely learned that other people care about them and other people can be resources for them. [00:13:00] And they were challenging days for sure, but they're 21 and 24, it's actually the 24 year old's birthday today. I have two sons.

They're amazing and it all worked out.

Megan Sprinkle: . Well, it's so funny actually, the podcast I was listening to prepare for this this morning that you were on was with Crystal Stokes

Shannon Bass: Mm-hmm.

Megan Sprinkle: her

Shannon Bass: She's great.

Megan Sprinkle: And actually there was a, a topic about the, we often like, feel like we have to do eveything.

Shannon Bass: Yes.

Megan Sprinkle: And knowing that no, you use your team. There's a reason that you have a team, , everybody has their skill sets and you work together, it, that is the best way to, uh. Everyone one, do everything well too. 'cause we can't, we can't do everything

Shannon Bass: No.

Megan Sprinkle: we're human. so yeah, no, I think that's a good call out both from the mother side of things.

'cause as I fellow a mom, I [00:14:00] very much understand letting things go is not easy.

Shannon Bass: No, but when like somebody else dresses your kid and you, you show up and see your child and you're like, Hmm, those pants that top those shoes. What are we doing? You just don't even say that. You're like, oh, you look so cute. Someone else dressed you. Thank God.

Megan Sprinkle: like you have clothes on

Shannon Bass: That's, that is a win.

We're gonna move on right from there.

Megan Sprinkle: well, I I'm glad that you were able to build that community, , you know, because I think that is such an important aspect of being a human on the planet

Shannon Bass: Yes.

Megan Sprinkle: Like, do you have any thoughts about how to build a community?

any thoughts or tips that you like to share with people?

Shannon Bass: don't be afraid to talk to folks. I think so many times we are. Well, what might she say? Okay, well. What's the worst that someone could say to you, right? Like, no, I'm not interested, or I'm super busy, or some kind of dismissive, I don't wanna be your friend thing. Like, she's not going to strike you probably.

Right? [00:15:00] And so I guess what I mean by that is, let's say you live in a neighborhood and you have a young child and you're trying to figure out like how to, one of my biggest problems, honestly, I just, let's do something specific. I needed to be at work when I had second shift shifts. Those started at five p.

My husband often didn't get home 'cause he got off at six, so I had to leave at four 30 and he got home at six 30. So I had this weird time, right? So I needed someone to come to my house for a very short period of time just to be with my kids. So I would see people walking with their kids on my street and I would just go introduce myself and I found middle school kids, sometimes boys, which were awesome 'cause they would just, I would pay middle school boys to come play video games with my elementary school children.

Megan Sprinkle: What a terrible

Shannon Bass: Right. But I did that just by like seeing that seems like a person I might want. Right? And they live down the [00:16:00] street from me. Let me meet them, let me have a conversation with them and , then I'd ask some other friends like, do you know that family?

Like, what do you think? Would you like have them come over? And they're like, oh yeah, that, I mean, he's like a middle school boy who's kind of gross, but he's probably fine. Then you have to, I had to, what are my expectations of this two hour timeframe? Like I didn't need them to teach my kids to read.

Right. I just needed them to play video games with my kids and make sure that the house didn't burn down until my husband got home. So I guess, what do you really need? Because you probably don't need the nanny of all nannies in some situations, right. Who can serve that purpose. And again, it doesn't necessarily have to be a master's educated preschool teacher, right?

, So what do you really need and think outside the box, who can help you? And then where do you already go? Are there groups of [00:17:00] people you're involved in? Are there clubs? Are there faith-based groups? , does your kid, I know yours is not old enough to play soccer, but shockingly your child will probably be on a three-year-old soccer team, which is a whole nother podcast that we need to do.

But, um, but then you're gonna know parents of other three-year-olds when your kid's on the 3-year-old soccer team. And so if you need your kid to go somewhere for two hours, you call one of those parents and say, Hey, can I drop her off for two hours , on Wednesday?

So you build it where you see it?

Megan Sprinkle: No, I think that's good. Even if you don't have kids yet. You know, I, I was just talking to Dean Rustin Moore and he said one of the things he always tells students is like all of those things that you used to do before, whether it was exercising, playing sports

Shannon Bass: Mm-hmm.

Megan Sprinkle: Keep doing them. And when you keep doing those activities, I heard a dating, you know, a person recommend, like, don't go crazy on these dating apps. Just [00:18:00] go do what you would

Shannon Bass: Right.

Megan Sprinkle: And you meet the people that, start to become your community and you, you meet people through other people. It just kind of works that way.

So, yeah, it's honestly,

Shannon Bass: it should,

Megan Sprinkle: that are fun. Yeah.

Shannon Bass: but you have to talk to the humans.

Megan Sprinkle: yes.

Shannon Bass: Right. Like if I'm in a kayaking club and I just go kayak in my own boat by myself

Megan Sprinkle: Yes.

Shannon Bass: and I never talk to any of the other kayakers, then I'm gonna be like, well, that kayaking club, I didn't meet anyone. Well, did I even introduce myself? Did I stop when a couple of people were gathered in the parking lot as we were putting our stuff in our cars and, and say hi?

Or did I just like put my stuff in my car and drive away? So. We have to participate. I said yesterday I was in a practice, and we have a veterinarian that is leaving for some different opportunities and I said to her, I really am excited for your opportunities and please reach out if I can ever help you in the [00:19:00] future.

And I'm so serious about that

Megan Sprinkle: Hmm.

Shannon Bass: this individual could reach out to me three years from now and say, Hey, I have this question, and I would be happy to get on the phone with her and, and talk through maybe, you know, a choice she's trying to make or something like that. And I also don't think we do that enough, right?

Like when people say, let me know how I can help you, we tend to dismiss those statements and that is not something that I do. So be careful. 'cause if you say, let me know how I can help you, I file that information away and I'm pretty likely to reach out.

Megan Sprinkle: That's good. Yeah. And we get joy from helping other

Shannon Bass: Yes.

Megan Sprinkle: so Yeah. No, that's good both ways. I love that. and kind of go, you were talking about, you were talking to somebody at work, you, you were. Emergency vet for 17 years, and then you went to do something a little bit different where I'm just blown away by listening to some of your talks on different topics around [00:20:00] leadership. So what was kind of a, I don't know if it was a necessarily one pivotal moment, but what was it that you started to transition to something a little bit different?

Shannon Bass: There is another. It's funny how we have these moments in our life that are so crystal clear, right? And so there was a crystal clear moment. My oldest son was a sophomore in high school and I was leaving at that four 30 time period to get to my five o'clock swing shift. He drove into

the driveway got out of his car and we passed literally in our driveway as I was going to my car, and he was walking into the house and he said, mom, I really need to talk to you and I could not stop. I was, you know, as most of us are when we're on our way to work, there was, I was already a couple of minutes behind and pretending to myself that I was gonna make that up on the drive.

Um, so, but I could not stop and have a conversation with him because of my responsibilities at work. And I said, can we do that tomorrow? 'cause I'm not working tomorrow? [00:21:00] And he said, yes, but, oh man, I got into that car and I had 25 minutes in the car. And there, I mean, this was a, a culmination of a lot of things, right?

It was 17 years of working, ER. My body was saying some things to me. It was getting a little bit more challenging to tell my family about the holidays. I still couldn't attend and things like that after such a long period of time. So there was a lot that happened before this, but that moment was like that.

He's a sophomore. You're not gonna have him home for very much longer. And this sophomore high school boy just asked to talk to you and you had to say, can we do it tomorrow? That was really, really hard. So that just made me start thinking I need to figure out a different path. And that was a really interesting and fun six months because I wasn't in a huge hurry.

'cause I actually still loved my job so, so, so much and loved all the people that I worked with. [00:22:00] So it was, okay, can I do some kind of day shift thing that's a little bit different? But I had seen people try to do that before and it just didn't work. They always got sucked in and they were supposed to leave at five and they left at seven P and you know, it just, it, I, I thought about it and I think was realistic about what that really looked like.

I interviewed with some general practitioner friends at a couple of different hospitals and also just realized the challenge for me of having been in the 24 hour space for 17 years, the challenge of shifting to (A) I had not been a GP vet in almost two decades. , What do I do at five o'clock with sick animals like , isn't someone gonna be here to take care of them?

, So there were a lot of challenges there that I knew might be challenging for my brain, right, to deal with. I talked to vets that worked in industry, so friends of mine that were working for Hills and decra and things like that about maybe doing that [00:23:00] job. I actually applied to teach biology at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte.

They never got back to me. Um, so I thought a lot of like, what can I do? And in the process I was really open with some of the admin folks at the practice I was working at, and just said, I'm not in a hurry, but this is where I'm at and I'm just trying to figure this out. So they came to me about doing recruiting. The group I was working with at the time had about 200 practices throughout the United States.

A lot of them were specialty hospitals at that time, which was the environment I had been in. And they had just hired what I call a real recruiter, meaning someone that went to school for that. And they said they needed a veterinarian to work alongside her because she didn't know, for example, the difference between an intern and an internist.

Megan Sprinkle: It's

Shannon Bass: And

Megan Sprinkle: a big difference.

Shannon Bass: A very big difference. , But she knew all the ins and outs of [00:24:00] actually recruiting, right? And so. I said, I don't know anything about recruiting. And they said, you've been hiring veterinarians at these specialty practices in Charlotte for over 10 years. So I was like, oh, that's recruiting.

Yeah, I can do that. I always tell people now, if someone offers you a job that you are completely unqualified for, and I say this especially to women because, so then you should take it is kind of the short thing. Right. And the reason I say that, especially about women is there is a study, really cool study that says that men only need to meet 40% of the job's requirements for them to apply, and women need to meet like 80 to convince them to apply. They're like, well, I don't have that exact degree that they're asking for, so I'm not even going to apply. Where guys are like, I went to college so I'm gonna apply. , So especially for women, if you are offered a job you're not qualified for, take it.

Because this is the secret. You can always quit.

So I took that advice, took this recruiting job, [00:25:00] learned a ton, got exposed to so many different people because now I was seeing this broader organization and I was visiting and talking to all these different practices that I would need to know how they ran their practice so that I can effectively recruit for their practice, and so I learned all these different ways that people did things and got exposed to amazing leaders within the veterinary field, and it was really cool. So I ended up doing that for a couple of different groups for a total of six years, and that was totally unexpected. You know, back to your first question, as I'm sitting at in vet school at Texas A&M, would you have ever thought that I would be a veterinary recruiter for big corporations?

What? No, that's crazy.

Megan Sprinkle: What, what are some of the things that you have noticed after doing that for so long to help people maybe feel more comfortable with finding that a good fit? Right. [00:26:00] I think a lot of people are worried about that, or, and maybe for good reason, good reason. Uh, you know, they, they find themselves in situations that are just totally wrong.

, But how can you improve the likelihood of finding a better fit?

Shannon Bass: What is really important to you? Spend some time asking yourself that question before you go interview for a job. And what are negotiables and non-negotiables for you? And you can't have 20 non-negotiables because you're never gonna find that, right? But do you have one non-negotiable?

And so maybe that is scheduling. Maybe that is medical, some kind of medical standard, medical quality. Maybe you are incredibly interested in continuing education and you would value a higher CE budget than you would PTO, or maybe reverse, but what do you want? [00:27:00] Because I think so many times we walk into an interview and we're just trying to be nice and we're trying to be liked because we all wanna be liked.

We haven't even asked ourselves, what do I want out of this job? What kind of cases do I enjoy seeing? maybe you love derm. I actually derm. I, I'm an emergency vet. I don't know,

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah,

Shannon Bass: not my thing, right? But there are people and I love them, and when I find them, I'm like, oh, sweet. You're a derm person.

Right? But if you love derm, is the practice willing to funnel you derm cases? Are they willing to invest in products that they don't carry right now that you find really important in your practice? But if you don't know you love derm and if you aren't brave enough to ask them, Hey, I really love Product X. I don't see it on your shelves. Is that something that you would be willing to carry'cause it's, it's something I really use. Then maybe you show up, and this is a [00:28:00] simplistic example, but I think it's illustrative. If you show up and they say, no, we won't buy that line of products because we have an agreement with this other distributor, and we can't do that, so you're gonna have to use what we give you.

Well, so now you're in your first week or two weeks of your job and you're disappointed because you hadn't spent the time to identify that derm is really something that fills your cup from a medical standpoint. You wanna do it and you wanna do it well. And you wanna be supported in that.

Megan Sprinkle: . What about on the flip side? Is there like a, a question that you have discovered is like a golden question that helps you kind of find the, the nugget of information that helps you make those decisions.

Shannon Bass: One of the first questions that I'll ask veterinarians that I'm interviewing is it's a very open-ended question and oh my goodness, the things that I learned, tell me why you want this job.

And that question goes everywhere, right? Because sometimes [00:29:00] it's external things. I hired, , a veterinarian one time and he said, I did not expect this, , from this individual's mouth, but he said, I am really into tournament bass fishing. And this practice is really near a big lake where they hold a lot of these tournaments.

Megan Sprinkle: Strategic. Okay.

Shannon Bass: And so that's how he had looked for a job. Is he, this was his big thing that he wanted to do, right? And he wanted to live and work and be close to a place where he could do this thing that was really important to him. That was pretty cool. Like that was new. Different, I had never heard that before. But so you, why do you want this job?

, and so maybe it's about something completely outside of work. A lot of times it's about family. My family lives close to here and, and I wanna move back and I've been away for a long time and I wanna be closer. That's a fabulous reason to be looking for a job. So, sometimes it's about that.

Sometimes it is about the mentorship or the medicine. Like [00:30:00] I, I took my first job and the owner basically left and I've been working solo as a new grad or many shifts by myself and I don't want that. And so I applied to this job 'cause it's a four doctor practice and I really want a lot of mentorship.

So that's a great answer. But also that answer helps me to ask them more questions. Tell me exactly what kind of mentorship you're looking for. Tell me what your strengths are and where, where you're really looking more to grow. 'cause I wanna make sure that we're aligned there and that we're gonna be able to provide what you're looking for.

Megan Sprinkle: I probably ask you tons of questions just on that because I,

Shannon Bass: Mm-hmm.

Megan Sprinkle: it's a, it's a scary part in your journey, honestly, to be looking for something, I think it's a moment to be vulnerable, but also a great opportunity to do a lot of self-reflection. It's a, a moment to be like,

Shannon Bass: Mm-hmm.

Megan Sprinkle: like now is the time to sit down and really ask myself these questions.

Shannon Bass: Yeah.

Megan Sprinkle: , it's probably really refreshing to hear somebody who is actually very clear on [00:31:00] what they 

Shannon Bass: want.

Right. And then when they're not clear, especially when I'm talking to a, a fourth year, who's looking for their first job? And understandably, at that time, a lot of people have not identified anything that's important to them, right? And so one of the funniest answers I got about, tell me what you're looking for in a job and I'll, you know, I can try to help you.

And the answer was, I'd like to be near water. I was like, well, like what kind of water? Like salt water, fresh water, running water. Like what? Like, because I was trying, do you, do you surf? Do you fish, do you ski? Like what? What does that mean? And so we had this whole conversation and we did finally distill down what that individual was interested in to help them.

'cause they were looking just locationally. They, they wanted to be close to, an activity, right? But the first answer was just super broad. And so part of my job as a recruiter was, okay, let's keep talking about that and figure out what does that mean.

Megan Sprinkle: [00:32:00] I, oh, oh goodness. Like all the skills that you even learned from that on how, how to be curious, how to help people both from the person interviewing, but also the or the hospital that is needing that individual. Like you

Shannon Bass: Right?

Megan Sprinkle: have to be curious and understand. People across the way, which I'm sure helps going into more leadership type of positions. So what are some of the best things and, and how did you start to move more into really big leadership roles where you're having really interesting conversations?

Shannon Bass: when I was working as a recruiter, I ended up getting some leadership training just as part of the organization that I was working with, and that was really eyeopening for me was spending, it was kind of similar to the certificate course that you and I just finished together. And so congratulations on earning your certificate and, , I felt like it [00:33:00] was a really valuable course that we took.

And so it was a similar thing where it was over. I think a six month time period where we did some online calls and then, because we all worked for the same group, we also had a couple of in-person meetings where we would get together and, and do stuff. And so I, I will credit that as the beginning of my awareness that you could actually be trained in this, because I think in the past I had been a hospital leader.

You know, I was a medical director of a 24 hour specialty in emergency hospital and things like that. And a lot of the things, the skills that I was using at that time were things I would pick up at a conference, right in a one hour talk, or I would pick up from some. Kind of self-help leadership type book that I would read, something like that.

But when I got my first real training, that was not just a one hour thing. It was multiple meetings, assigned reading, getting together for a couple of days. It's like, oh, this is fun. [00:34:00] This resonates with my brain very strongly and I am so motivated to take this information and then go back to the people that I work with day to day and share it.

And so I think that was the very beginning of an awareness that I wanted to do leadership, not just be in leadership. 'cause I actually already was. I t was more of a how do I bring this information to other people?

Megan Sprinkle: I do think people forget that they're leaders in the clinic setting it. It's, you don't have to be leading multi-hospital, sitting at a desk, all the time to be a leader and, and need those leadership skills. I know you're an avid reader. You, you're very self-motivated into listening to podcasts, reading books about these different topics. Did start way back into the clinic, or did that increase more as you further into your [00:35:00] career?

Shannon Bass: It definitely started in the clinic. I think I am a super curious person. So through, some of my leadership work, you know, we do these values exercises, right, where you kind of figure out what your values are. So my two values that are pretty consistent across all the different ways that one finds values are curiosity and authenticity.

And so I am so ridiculously curious, which is, you and I have had a previous conversation about how hard it is to say no. And some of the reasons that it's so hard for me to say no is when people are like, would you like to serve on this committee or do this thing? I'm like, Ooh, I'm fascinated to learn more about that.

Right? So some of my yeses are absolutely curiosity driven. And so I'm, I've always been super curious, so yes. Always that like, let's do a journal club, let's do this. Right? So reading, whether it was medical stuff or leadership stuff and then listening to podcasts. One of the things I love to do now that is super easy, I would so encourage [00:36:00] hospital-based leaders to do is podcast clubs.

So it's book club, but with a podcast. And so if I'm gonna focus on giving feedback with a group of leaders, then I might assign a podcast. And there are a lot, there are some great podcasts out there about veterinary feedback. And so I assign the podcast and then we schedule time to then talk about the podcast and one of the things I love about that is it is really hard to assign somebody a book or even if I assign an article, we show up to the meeting and , you know, only about 50% of people have actually read the book or even the article. If I find a podcast that's 30 minutes or less, I'm like, guys, I'm just gonna be honest. There's not an excuse. Like, I know you drive to work, so I really need you to listen to this podcast.

Megan Sprinkle: You can listen on two times.

Shannon Bass: Exactly. You can increase the speed, like I'm [00:37:00] assuming some of you cook or fold laundry or do yard work, like there are all kinds of things that you do where you can listen to this 30 minute deal and it's really been very effective and fun.

Megan Sprinkle: Hmm. You're giving me ideas

Shannon Bass: Yeah, no, it's so easy.

Megan Sprinkle: I love that. Well,

, I know you said, so you, I mean, you've been developing these leadership skills that sometimes the context looks a little bit different, but learning what you did from recruiting, what also got you interested in, a national director level. So, I mean, I, I don't know if it was an opportunity, did you pursue it? , How did you start to get to the next role ?

Shannon Bass: I think some of it was happy accidents, to be perfectly honest. I think it's, and some of it is saying yes at the right time. And fostering connections. So if you see places that you wanna be, it's the same thing as finding the middle schooler to watch your kids, right? It's [00:38:00] if you see places that you wanna be, reach out to that person.

Minimally connect with them on LinkedIn, like their posts, comment on their posts, be a name that they recognize, right? If it's someone within your practice that you're wanting to connect with, say, I'd love, I'd love to sit down and, and just have lunch with you and, and learn something more about your job, right?

People generally like to talk about themselves, and so if you want something. Make the connections that are gonna get you there and do that purposefully is, you know, the first thing. And then make sure people know you're interested. So there were positions that I was aware of that were coming up and I would just tell the people that were involved in making those choices.

I'd be interested in being considered for that role. And I have done that more times than I've gotten the role. There were times that, almost like the teaching biology role, , I'm actually really good at biology, right? But I have no official teaching education. [00:39:00] And so if you're the University of North Carolina at Charlotte and like an actual teacher applies for this job, and then this veterinarian, which one are you gonna call back?

Probably the actual teacher, but. I still put myself out there to say, if no actual teachers apply and you wanna call me, I'd love to talk about this. So just try, express your interest, let people know that you want something, because even if you don't get that role, let's say it's a medical director role in a practice, right?

And you reach out and say, I'm interested in being considered for this medical director role. Maybe somebody else gets it, but now they know you're interested. And now the next time there is maybe leadership training within your organization. If they think you need that to get you to that place, maybe they'll invite you.

And so then the next medical director role that comes up, they'll be like, oh yeah, she was interested. Maybe we should see where she's at now. But if you never say anything and you just expect that somebody's gonna be looking at a list [00:40:00] of names and call you, that's probably not gonna happen.

Megan Sprinkle: even if the particular role that you mentioned, oh, I'm interested in this, or not even a role, maybe it's like, oh, you know what? I just love cytology. I love, whatever, you know, something, if you're kind of speaking it out into the ethos,

Shannon Bass: Yes.

Megan Sprinkle: um, people can pick that

Shannon Bass: Mm-hmm.

Megan Sprinkle: whether it's like, maybe it's a different role that they happen to see,

Shannon Bass: Totally.

Megan Sprinkle: even available.

That's one that I, I know I've heard as a recommendation is like, do build your network, speak the things that you're interested in because not all jobs out there are public.

Shannon Bass: right.

Megan Sprinkle: Sometimes they're behind the scenes or they're just not posted yet.

Shannon Bass: Mm-hmm.

Megan Sprinkle: So if you have those connections in the rooms who see them or know that they're coming, then you will come up into mind. And

Shannon Bass: Yes.

Megan Sprinkle: good to be recommended that way , for people who know you in your [00:41:00] interest to help you find those

Shannon Bass: Mm-hmm.

Megan Sprinkle: And, the Happy Accident is also a answer I've gotten to many times on roles.

Shannon Bass: Some of that is just, it is a happy accident, but it's because your name is there. It

Megan Sprinkle: done some work. Yeah.

Shannon Bass: it's because they've seen you. It's because you've expressed interest in, in something. . And. It's how I got the recruiting job. , They hadn't posted it,

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah.

Shannon Bass: but they knew that I needed to do something different because I had been straightforward about that and they were actively trying to help me find the next right thing because I was communicating honestly and openly.

And so I think that kind of communicating is invaluable.

Megan Sprinkle: And. Uh, you know, it can be intimidating to build tho those networks . And I think you are able to bring a long, , career being in a clinical setting

Shannon Bass: Hmm.

Megan Sprinkle: so that when you [00:42:00] bring. That perspective into non-clinical settings. I, I think that's so valuable for everybody involved.

So you can kind of help that community. You also based off hearing some so stories. You are sometimes the, the middle person, like you have to be communicating up and down and that is such a hard job. What have you learned from being in that position, both about yourself, about skills that are helpful in those situations and, , what have you learned about veterinary medicine from you, you have to communicate all ways. What are some of the things that you feel, are most valuable to kind of share from personal experience?

Shannon Bass: I think one of the biggest things that I've learned is to not assume that people know things. So sometimes on either side, whether you are an in [00:43:00] practice person that's working day to day in an animal hospital, or whether you are a finance or accounting or HR person that is supporting practices, don't assume that we understand what each other do.

Take the time to make sure that we're all solving for the same problem so we all have identified the same problem and we're all moving forward in the same direction. Because if we skip that step, then we end up with solutions that aren't addressing what our real problems are. 'cause we, we kind of skipped a really important step.

And so that's one of my roles is I ask that question I think every day. So what problem are we solving for. And, and then we stop a lot and, and we have some conversation about that. I was literally in a practice yesterday and they were having some scheduling issues with some newer CSRs that, they would have a, a whole day of wellness scheduled with no sick blocks, [00:44:00] even though they were supposed to have sick blocks, but they weren't honoring the sick blocks.

And so I what is the problem? Like, why are they not honoring the sick blocks? No one in the room knew the answer to that question, so we had to go figure that out. So the answer wasn't just to put more sick blocks on the schedule, 'cause there already were some, why were they ignoring them?

And so what I learned in that interaction right, is that we needed to just ask more questions. 'cause we, we hadn't done problem identification yet. And so, so many times that's where. We're having issues. And that's one of my roles is well, have we talked to her? Have we asked him? I think he's available. On Teams

I'm so annoying because I'm like, let me just see if I can call him into this call. , but I think that goes back to the same, let me just find that middle school person to watch my kids. I'm just not afraid to ask. And so don't be [00:45:00] afraid to ask. Don't assume that people know. And then this is so important. No one, I truly think this, there's not a single person on the planet that got up today wanting to make my life harder. Like I don't think anyone woke up and that was their first thought as their feet hit the floor. How can I make Shannon's life harder? Right? If I accept that that's true, then even people that challenge me today, they didn't wake up wanting to do that. And so they have a different motivation that I need to figure out, like, why did they say that thing that was challenging? Why did they make that decision that's throwing a wrench in my plans

but so many times in our brains we get wrapped up in that, right? Like, I can't believe he did that. Now everything is a big mess. Well, have we asked him? Because so many times we just run with our displeasure.

Megan Sprinkle: Yes. If you're going to assume, assume good intent.

Shannon Bass: Right, right. But we really think [00:46:00] he's just always against me. You know, there just aren't that many people in life that truly are against me.

 Maybe my children when they were toddlers, but that was brief.

a normal exploratory phase. It will pass.

Megan Sprinkle: Uh, no, that's great. And I think you do it out of like genuine curiosity.

 and. That's much more approachable too. It's like, uh, you don't have to get defensive because you of the way somebody phrased something you're really trying to, to pause and let's figure this out together. Which hopefully allows a faster route to finding the solution.

Shannon Bass: Yeah, and then I, you know, I think as a leader too, we have to, we have to be kind, which means we have to tell the truth even when the truth is uncomfortable. So

saying yes is easy. There are times when you have to say "no," but I really wanna do my very best to make sure people understand why. Sometimes [00:47:00] what they say is a no and a "no" doesn't mean I didn't hear them. It just means that right now we can't go that direction.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. Yeah. Now in all of this it, for a lot of people it may make perfect sense, but you mentioned the certificate course that we just recently finished, and that was the certificate in veterinary workplace wellbeing, so. I mentioned you're an avid reader. You have come across some interesting topics that are very relevant to veterinary medicine and wellbeing, psychological safety, moral injury, even mentioned like job crafting.

And we've, I think we've talked about curiosity today, but. What has encouraged you to really lean into some of these topics around wellbeing? To invest in something like a very long a certificate course to talk about it and learn more. What was it for you?

Shannon Bass: I think that I have a skill of being able to take a topic like [00:48:00] psychological safety or moral injury and distill it into words that veterinarians and veterinary staff can understand. The fact that I grew up in the industry and, and worked clinically for 19 years before being in nonclinical, you know, recruiting and now leadership roles, I can quickly pull up examples and analogies that are day to day that help people understand how these concepts apply to them.

And so when I become convinced that something like moral injury and psychological safety are important and will improve the lives of veterinarians and veterinary staff. And then I'm aware that I have this ability to distill it into messages that they can understand and, and make them actionable for them.

And then I do that and I see change happen. It's this incredibly positive feedback loop of I wanna keep doing that because I wanna keep seeing that face light up [00:49:00] of, oh. Then I wanna keep getting the emails of, Hey, do you have 10 minutes? Because I heard your talk and I have one follow up question. Those are the most fun calls ever.

And so again, it's just this positive feedback loop of feeling like I'm making a difference and wanting to keep doing that.

Megan Sprinkle: I know you just recently went to a leadership summit and gave a talk on, on several of these different topics. Is there one takeaway from that one in particular that is a, a feed back loop that stood out from that.

Shannon Bass: , so this was Thursday and I, gave a talk on the vocabulary of veterinary wellbeing because one of the things that happens when you get really involved in this is you start to think that everybody has this vocabulary because you're hanging out with a lot of people that are doing this work.

They're studying and reading and having these conversations, and you're like, oh, everybody knows what this is. Then you realize through some ancillary conversations [00:50:00] that that's not true. And so my goal of this talk that I gave about a week ago was, let's just define some of these terms and then provide them resources to use them in their practice.

So I looked yesterday at some initial survey results from that talk where I defined things like incivility, reframing, circle back, psychological safety, things like that. And the survey results were overwhelmingly very positive, that people enjoyed the talks, learned a lot, wanted even more information about that, which is always good.

'cause sometimes you think, uh, do people care? And so, seeing some of those survey results was really good. And then I've gotten again, some questions. It's really the questions that keep you going. It's the emails and the, we're having a call about something completely different and the person says, Hey, I did have one question I wanted to ask about reframing, and you know, wow, they've been thinking about this now for a week, and we're on a call about something [00:51:00] completely different.

And they're, they're coming back to one of those topics. So I guess that would be another encouragement if you hear someone speak. Or even go to an online talk, you know, maybe put on by a vendor or something like that, and you hear somebody speak on something and they say, and this is the same deal that I mentioned earlier.

Here's my email. Feel free to reach out to me. Reach out to them! Send them the email. Ask them the question. I did that after the Veterinary leadership conference in January that you and I were both at. One of the speakers that I thought was amazing, that was talking about decision fatigue. I was fascinated by his talk.

He put up his email at the end. I emailed him afterwards and he and I had a back and forth exchange. 'cause I said, I wanna start talking to veterinary students in North Carolina about this. And so he sent me the studies that he used to put his talk together, which was incredibly [00:52:00] generous and, and helpful.

And, but he was so willing to do that and he's like, let me know if I can help you anymore. So, reach out.

Megan Sprinkle: Yes, that's Dr. Ryan at Auburn. I actually finally got a, a chance to talk with him this week, 

Shannon Bass: Yeah,

Megan Sprinkle: Mentioned.

Shannon Bass: so great and I thought that talk was huge.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah.

Shannon Bass: So important.

Megan Sprinkle: And he's a neurologist. 

Shannon Bass: Yeah.

Megan Sprinkle: know, these are all skills that are impactful to us as a group of professionals and, love that you're seeing that feedback loop, you're seeing the impact and again, I think sometimes it can be intimidating to bring a topic like that into these settings, into a business setting, into a

Shannon Bass: Mm-hmm.

Megan Sprinkle: and so the fact that you're doing it and you're seeing the good results, you know, you, you've been the vulnerable one, and now you're seeing people are asking questions they want more. 

Shannon Bass: And there is vulnerability there, right? Because it was not a hundred percent positive comments on the survey, [00:53:00] and You know, I really, really try to practice positive self-talk, and so I did the normal human thing is that I read the few comments that were not positive, and what our human brains immediately do is forget all the positive comments and we read the not positive one 3, 4, 5 times trying to dissect it.

And then I have this little defensive conversation with this anonymous person, and then it takes me a few minutes to say, okay, take what's important here. Is there a nugget that you can take from this more critical comment about something you could, you feel like you could legitimately improve? And then you need to circle back and read the positive ones again.

And so it's take what you like and, and lead, not like, but take what serves you. And leave the rest. , But so that happened to me yesterday. That was about 10 [00:54:00] minutes of my life yesterday. But I guess I say that no one is immune to this, right? We just develop skills to catch ourselves, to say, okay, I, I'm not gonna get trapped in these few not positive comments.

I'm gonna learn from them 'cause there is something to be learned but not get trapped.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, all the more reason that if you did enjoy something, email the speaker because they need about a hundred good comments to overcome the one.

Shannon Bass: Isn't that so sad that our brains do that to us?

Megan Sprinkle: Uh, well, thank you so much. I, I've really loved getting to know you over the course of the certificate course, you know, bumping in to each other at the Veterinary Leadership Conference, so very much admire what you're doing. Excited to keep watching and learning from you as well. The place that I love to end my talks is what is one thing that you're super grateful for right now?

Just the first thing that comes to your mind.

Shannon Bass: I am super grateful for my family. I have [00:55:00] been married for 27 years and, and have these two great boys, and earlier this week one of them called me. I missed two calls and one was kid number one at like 5:14, and the other was kid number two at 5:17, and I had this moment of fear that they're trying to reach me.

There's a problem. One of them had left a voicemail that did the talk to text thing, and I read it quickly and he was just asking me a basic question about his day-to-day life, as was the other one. But it just made me so grateful that they are including me in their day-to-day life and that when they have a question, I'm somebody that occurs to them that they should ask and, and so I'm super grateful for my family.

Megan Sprinkle: Thank you so much for joining me and Dr. Shannon Bass for this conversation. I hope you're walking away with some powerful reminders about how to advocate for yourself, lean into community and stay intentional with your career path in veterinary medicine. And just a quick [00:56:00] clarification during our conversation, we mentioned a powerful talk on decision fatigue from the Veterinary Leadership Conference. That talk was given by Dr. Ryan Gibson, a veterinary neurologist. I'm thrilled to share that I will be recording an episode with him soon. So stay tuned for that inspiring conversation in an upcoming episode.

As always, thank you for listening to Vet Life Reimagined. If this episode resonated with you, please share it with a friend or colleague and don't forget to follow or subscribe so you don't miss the amazing career stories and conversations we have coming. Until next time, keep reimagining what's possible in veterinary life.