The Quiet Revolution: How the Human-Animal Bond is Changing Everything (Rustin Moore)

In this inspiring episode, Dr. Rustin Moore, equine surgeon, Dean of The Ohio State University College of Veterinary Medicine, and author of a series of books on the Human Animal Bond, joins us to reflect on the personal and professional experiences that shaped his path.

He discusses what it means to train the next generation of veterinarians, the science and stories behind the human-animal bond, and why he believes this connection is one of the most important forces shaping our world right now.

Resources:

• Episode's Podcast Club Guide (substack)
• Video episode on YouTube
• TEDx talk: Power of a Pet 
• Book 1: Unleashing the Bond - Harnessing the Power of Human-Animal Interaction
• Book 2: Unlocking the Bond - The Power and Paradox of Human-Animal Interaction
• Temple Grandin's book, Animals Make Us Human - Creating the Best Life for Animals

Transcript

Rustin Moore: [00:00:00] What you said about evolution, I would take it a step further and call it a revolution. We should be practicing veterinary medicine through the lens of the human animal bond.

Megan Sprinkle: We had the industrial Revolution. We had the digital revolution. We are in an AI revolution, but today's guest says there's another currently happening where veterinary professionals are at the center. The human animal bond isn't just evolving. It's a revolution according to Dr. Rustin Moore and veterinary professionals are uniquely positioned to lead it.

Dr. Moore is a board certified. Equine surgeon, researcher and Dean of the Ohio State University College of Veterinary Medicine. He's also the author of a four book series on the human animal bond sparked by a TED talk, the power of a pet now viewed over 217,000 times.

A first generation college graduate from West Virginia who [00:01:00] came to Ohio State planning to be what he calls an Appalachian version of James Harriet. Dr. Moore never planned on becoming a dean, but he has found himself reflecting back on a very unique path, and he believes in paying blessings forward. He cares very deeply for students and provides some great wisdom in this episode that we can all take away.

In this conversation, we get into what it means to train the next generation of veterinarians, the science and stories behind the human animal bond, and why Dr. Moore believes this connection is one of the most important forces shaping our world today. So let's get to the conversation with Dr. Rustin Moore.

 when did you first know you were interested in veterinary medicine?

Rustin Moore: Well, teasingly, I say when I was about that tall, but I'm still not much taller than that. So, um, probably by six years old.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, yeah.

Rustin Moore: One of those.

Megan Sprinkle: Well, you grew up in West Virginia and I think you were surrounded by animals [00:02:00] growing up. So are there any particular, and I've, I know I've read some in your book, uh, but any particular animal moments from growing up that you kind of still draw on and contribute to maybe your direction?

Rustin Moore: Yeah. You know, and, having reflected on that as I prepared for the writing my books, I've thought a lot about it. And, you know, there's many, many, many memories. But, I talk about one of my first cow in the calf that she had, uh, unfortunately the calf died. but then we got a orphan calf and she accepted it, et cetera.

So that sort of sticks out in my mind. And, of course I had many dogs and at that time they were, you know, outdoor dogs and we lived by a major highway and you know, some of those got hit by a car and died. And I remember a cat that just, I won't go into it all, but ended up being a, um, a very prolific, cat that, uh, my guess is [00:03:00] she still has, , offspring whose offspring, whose offspring are still on that hill in West Virginia where I grew up.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, which is kind of a cool thought, right?

Rustin Moore: Yeah.

Megan Sprinkle: I also grew up in the country and, and so a lot of my animal experiences are, are kind of like the circle of life. You learn a lot. . And I, I wanna comment 'cause that is one of the first stories in your book, is your cow, .

And that you connect with, with a calf. And I just, I thought that was really smart of you as a child to think that like that. And so I just wanna commend you that you were already, I think thinking like a veterinarian at a young age.

Rustin Moore: Problem solver.

Megan Sprinkle: Exactly. Yeah, absolutely. So growing up in West Virginia, how did you decide on like your school path, where you would go to school and all of that?

You know, working towards getting to vet school?

Rustin Moore: Yeah, so, you know, in West Virginia, I am a first generation college graduate. [00:04:00] However, I had some family that's not my direct lineage, and actually I have a, a great uncle. And a cousin who, actually two cousins who are veterinarians, and they all went to West Virginia University for their undergrad. So it was pretty much a done, I mean, if I was gonna go to veterinary school, I was gonna be going through West Virginia University.

And that was a great experience, great mentors, great teachers, . I still keep in touch with them, and in fact in book two, one of them is in it. So. It was pretty much a, if, if I was gonna go to veterinary school, that's where I was gonna go. I went there and again, that prepared me well to then apply to veterinary school and, and then I was accepted here at Ohio State and, uh, the University of Georgia, and made a decision to come here mostly because of proximity and the history of, two of those three family members who are veterinarians who went here.

Megan Sprinkle: Okay. Is there like a tie? [00:05:00] Because. I, I've heard a couple of conversations where, West Virginia and Ohio, like there's some small world moments. Is there a tie there at all, or just coincidence?

Rustin Moore: Well back then, and for 53 years, there was a contract between the state of West Virginia and Ohio State College of Veterinary Medicine, and typically the contract was for five seats per year. And so we no longer have that contract. Uh, we don't have any contracts, but we still have West Virginia students who apply and get in.

and of course the only thing that separates the two states is the Ohio River. So, we're pretty close.

Megan Sprinkle: Yep. Yeah, that makes sense. you mentioned growing up that you were surrounded by all sorts of animals: dogs, cats, cows, horses. was your thought about you personally becoming a veterinarian? Did that change at all through vet school?

Rustin Moore: Huh. So as I tell people now what I [00:06:00] really wanted to be, because that's all I ever knew, was what I now refer to as an Appalachian version of James Harriet, which is basically a country doctor. And that's all I ever knew. I'm sure I would've enjoyed that, and that's what I planned to do when I came here.

A lot of people say, did you always know you wanted to be a dean? I'm like, I didn't even know what a dean was. So, no, that was not in my path. But, you know, it's really as, I came to school and. You were introduced to different disciplines, topics, professors, et cetera. My mind changed regularly about what I wanted to do.

And actually I left here thinking I wanted to do a, an internal medicine residency, in large animal or equine. And I went to the University of Georgia for an internship and ended up coming back to Ohio State wanting to do equine surgery, not medicine. And I think it, I mean, I know that the reason [00:07:00] is the people that influenced me at the University of Georgia, the internal medicine faculty were great.

I just, the surgeons were doing this interesting research and I got involved and next thing you know, you know, they're my role model. So I think a lot of, in veterinary medicine in general, I think a lot of times people's minds change based upon personalities of people. And also how their passion for what they do.

And so I think that's sort of what led me, at least into academia. I never planned on doing a PhD, but after going to Georgia, I actually came back here to do my surgery residency and simultaneously was enrolled in a PhD program, which then took me along an academic career to LSU and then back here in administration.

So, you know, Every crossroads or T or y in the road. you know, my career has almost just fallen in place. I haven't actually [00:08:00] made a decision to do this or that. It's just some opportunity arises and I look into it and I either decide or I don't to do it or not do it. So, I feel blessed.

Megan Sprinkle: Yes, I, I think there's both the. We are doing the work, but because we're doing the work, the opportunities come our way. So there's a little bit of both when it comes to luck, I think. I wanted to go back, you talked about the mentorship that you had at the University of Georgia and in our pre-call you talked about that there are many individuals from your vet school class that are now deans, major leaders in veterinary industry. And I, I kinda asked, I'm like. What was it about this class that, you know, you ended up producing so many like big leaders or, or people going into leadership positions, and you said you contributed to a lot of the teachers and mentors that you had during schools. So do you mind sharing a little bit about those individuals [00:09:00] that you are watching and, and kind of seeing going through vet school?

Rustin Moore: I don't know that I noticed it at the time. but on reflection as I go, have gone through my career. I mean, the College of Veterinary Medicine at Ohio State has produced numerous Deans of Colleges of Veterinary Medicine. The first Dean of Texas A&M University College of Veterinary Medicine was, uh, one of our graduates, but we've had multiple deans at multiple institutions.

that came through Ohio State, either as a student, a resident, a graduate student, a faculty member, et cetera. And so, you know, I think part of it must just be sort of, maybe the, the culture or chemistry of, of the place. And I don't know that I can really put my finger on an exact thing, but, um, People at that time, and people here [00:10:00] now are very passionate about what they do. And that that really stirs energy and engagement and, and things like that. And I, I had no idea and no real desire when I was here. I didn't, I was, I wasn't thinking about being a dean. That really never came until later in my career.

So there's something magical, but I don't know what it is.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, we talked a little bit too, 'cause I had attended the Midwest Veterinary Conference not too long ago, and I knew that the Ohio State had some strong, you know, magic to them, but literally getting on the plane, going home and half the plane is decked out in some type of the Ohio State, apparel. And you know, you mentioned that there's probably something to do with the athletics department, you know, that that kind of creates that. and, and I'm all for it. I, you know, I'm not a huge sports fan, but it, it is nice to have something that creates this [00:11:00] enthusiasm, this feeling of connection that increases an even larger feeling of loyalty and enthusiasm around you and I, I think that is very special. So yeah, kind of hard to really put, uh, the right words behind it, but it, it's something that maybe we don't really talk tons about, but I think it is special.

Rustin Moore: Yeah, no, it is. And you know, being 141 years old, not me, the college,

Megan Sprinkle: Okay. I.

Rustin Moore: uh. And having had a relatively large class size from the beginning and now one of the largest and has been for a long time, we have a very large alumni base very loyal. And, they also a re spread across all 50 states and 40 countries.

So it creates a, a family sort of spirit and environment across the globe. And then when you think about all of the [00:12:00] alumni that are Ohio State alumni beyond veterinary medicine, there is about 600,000 living currently. And so you could probably about anywhere you are.

Say, 'OH', and you would hear 'IO". That's sort of our battle cry.

Megan Sprinkle: I may have to try that sometimes just to see, uh, it's fantastic.

Rustin Moore: Thank you.

Megan Sprinkle: and so I, you mentioned you, you were there for vet school. You, went on to be a professor at the, at. In Louisiana and you weren't looking, but it eventually got the job offer. So you spent a lot of time in academia and there's different components of academia.

There's research, there's clinics, there's teaching, there's all sorts of things. Right. What is it for you that you liked about academia that's kept you there so long?

Rustin Moore: No two days are the [00:13:00] same. It's the variability, it's the energy. This cycle of energy. So, you know, every fall we get a another class that enters and there's a lot of energy around that. At the end of the year, there's a lot of energy and excitement about the class graduating and going out into their life and their career.

Every July we get a new group of interns and residents and that brings another cycle of energy, and I look at it as a multiplying effect. Like, so, I mean, people that I taught at LSU that were my vet students, my PhD students, my residents, and I shouldn't say mine, but you know, that I, they now are deans.

They are in other leadership roles. And so, and then they're, they have people that are, you know, will be doing [00:14:00] similar things. And it's, it's not just about leadership, but, but my point is. You never know how you're gonna touch someone's life or career, how you're gonna inspire them. But when you see them at conferences, you know, I saw a couple people that weren't even mine.

They were actually a small animal surgery resident at the LSU and I was of course equine and I saw him and his wife at a conference and they came over and they said. I just want you to know how, influential and impactful you were on my time at LSU. And I'm like, what? You were on the other side of the hospital?

And I went on to say, you know, whatever. So you just never know. And you know, that's why I think it's really important to always conduct yourself as if you live in a fishbowl, because someone's watching. And, if I could give any advice to anyone, be kind. Simply be [00:15:00] kind.

Megan Sprinkle: Absolutely. It's good philosophy no matter where you are. Well. There's a lot of conversation going around education in veterinary medicine. Not to put you on the spot with controversial things, but in your perspective, in your world, what are you seeing when it comes to education, evolution, and what are you specifically focusing in on to best support students, but also seeing them as, you know, the, the generation of veterinary medicine. What are your thoughts around that?

Rustin Moore: Well, there's a lot of, things that have been going on and are going on, and what I always try to do is, think through what those are. Seek. Information, advice, et cetera, from members of my team or other people here, including faculty and staff and students and alumni. So what we've done, and I'm here at Ohio State, and I'm not saying this is the [00:16:00] only way to do it, please don't think that, but we evaluated our curriculum and really what we wanted in terms of a, a product in terms of a graduate.

Our graduates have always been highly sought after, but we, you know, we sort of have this motto or, ambition and this that's to be the model. Comprehensive College of Veterinary Medicine in the world. It doesn't mean, number one, it means the model, and it's really a, a goal, but we never get there because it's constant reflection and improvement and then reflection and improvement.

So in terms of an education, what we wanted in terms of a model graduate is really someone who is more competent, more confident, and more career ready on day one. Even though we have great graduates and so we actually, uh, implemented a [00:17:00] competency based curriculum based on the CBVE framework of the American Association of Veterinary Medical Colleges.

And there's nine domains. I won't go into all that, but, that was implemented in the middle of a pandemic. Uh, so we're graduating our first class in that new curriculum this May. And just seeing how. It's changed people in terms of confidence and competence.

And also in, I think in joy, because they're not sitting in a classroom six or eight hours a day looking at screen. They're in the clinical and professional skill center every week doing hands-on skills. They're also in there doing communication training and scenarios with trained actors. They're doing shadowing, during their first three years in our veterinary spectrum of care [00:18:00] clinic, et cetera.

And I, and so I think they're constantly reminded of why they're there. As opposed to before that, I would hear students say, really, starting as much as the end of the first semester, I'm really not sure this is what I wanna do, because I'm sitting in a classroom, you know, and so I think having that contact with animals and also doing as well as learning by, sitting and listening, is really important.

so that's one thing. We've also had a, a large focus on spectrum of care. and I think that's really important for a variety of reasons that's embedded completely within our curriculum. And that idea is, and I'm sure you know, is just the idea that when a student graduates, they feel capable.

 to deliver some broad array of medically acceptable options and meet the client and the patient where they are. There's a lot of factors that felt in that. [00:19:00] It's everything from social economics, demographics, but also really what the client wants out of a particular animal.

You know, if they have a, an agility dog and they also have a couch potato dog and they both tear their cranial cruciate ligament, they don't both need the same procedure. And so it's really about giving 'em the confidence to offer those things and then do them. Rather than saying, well, if you're not willing to go here as a referral, then there's nothing I can do.

I think that helps in terms of address compassion fatigue, that you're actually able to help people. And you also, you need to be profitable, so you're not giving away things, but you might do a $500 procedure t hat works just as well for whatever the client needs for that particular animal versus a $5,000 one that might take [00:20:00] it back to athletics or whatever.

And so I think it's really important, and that's why communication training is so critical and that's why it's so prominent in our curriculum. you know, I think the other thing is, is really about how do we balance all of this stuff. And make sure these students, these young professionals, are able to maintain some sense of balance because, we have

emotional and mental health issues, just like many others. And we need to make sure that they have time to get enough sleep. they can eat, they can, do all those things. And so some of that stuff is actually built into our curriculum. Life skills. The other thing is trying to make sure we can minimize the amount of debt students have by, Controlling tuition costs, but also by offering scholarships. So here in the last 10 years, we've gone from giving a total [00:21:00] of $370,000 of philanthropically derived scholarships to this current year, this upcoming year, 4.3 million. So that transforms lives, it transforms careers. If you get a scholarship for.

10,000, 20,000, 35,000, whatever they might be. every scholarship is important, but when you start getting those type of scholarships. That transforms their lives because it gives them options of what they might want to do that they might not otherwise have been able to afford. So, from mental health counselors to financial advisors to all having a community cupboard, , where students can come in and get essential foods or personal hygiene or other supplies with no questions asked, , also decreases stress.

, And the reason we did that, I learned that we had food insecure students and that as many as 15% of our student body at times [00:22:00] is food insecure.

Megan Sprinkle: Wow.

Rustin Moore: that's not okay with me. So, even though the university has their own, food banks, et cetera, and there's many around the city, we wanted to make it convenient for students to get, you know, and it's not a grocery store, it's essential products.

Megan Sprinkle: A lot of what you described is. Is a human component, of everything. Everything from understanding how to bring the pet owner into this scenario and not just looking at the anatomy of animals, reflecting back to vet school, a lot of it is like looking at anatomy of animals. there's so much that goes into what we do as veterinarians, which is special. It's also really challenging to build it all into a curriculum, so it's very impressive of all of the components that you've thought about and are building [00:23:00] in everything from taking care of them individually, but also thinking about the larger picture that comes with veterinary medicine beyond the animal, which is also very important to know, but being able to have critical thinking, empathy, listening, all of those things that come into it, that help with communication, et cetera, 

Rustin Moore: Yeah. One of the things that at touch points in as a class comes through, we have these things called Why Ohio State. And it's actually, for admitted students before they have to make a decision about where they're going. We had one a couple of weeks ago. We have one coming up next week.

So they hear it, then they hear it at orientation, they hear it at White Coat Ceremony. They hear it at Oath and Hooding as they're graduating. And other times they, they hear at least the following things. You earned this spot. You belong here. Never doubt it [00:24:00] because things go through your mind that you're, you're not good enough or whatever.

You're here because you earned it. Number two, you are more than a veterinary student. You are a human being, and you have other elements to your life. You may have a family, you may have pets, you may be working a job, whatever it is. Find balance, continue to do what you did before. If it was athletics, if it was music, if it was gardening, whatever it was, yeah.

You might not be able to do it as much, but keep doing it. I also talk about, yes, we are highly empathetic, but do not take on the emotional burdens of others, including your clients, because it will overwhelm you. and that's gonna be challenging, but learn how to do it. You're forming habits in veterinary school, and particularly when you get in [00:25:00] into clinics, make one of your habits taking care of yourself in that chaos of clinic life or as a veterinarian.

Megan Sprinkle: I think those are so important. You know, you described. Feeling Impost syndrome and also that emotional burden that sometimes we carry because we care. And that's, it's not a bad thing to care, but it's also good to know, your limits and, and where you've done your best , and go on to the next thing. all wonderful pieces of advice that is going to be important for them for every day of their life going off into veterinary medicine. and I, I love how much you care. about the school and the students. And I know a big part of your story and focus now is, is also around the human animal bond, and this is something that. As veterinary professionals, we deal with [00:26:00] every single day, sometimes in, in different ways, but it's super important and luckily we're talking more about it, but there's been an evolution in the human animal bond and all the more to implement some of these things because of that connection with animals and. How, you know, this has grown into such a big part. It, I do know, happens to be this TED Talk that the entire university was doing. So the entire, uh, the Ohio State, and you really wanted somebody to represent the vet school and apparently nobody would. So you stepped up. Do you mind sharing your experience with that, that like has led you down this, this very big long road.

Rustin Moore: Yeah, sure. So In the fall of 2015, right after I had become the dean, there was a call that came out from the university because they had a TEDx series that they have every year, and I wanted somebody to, you know, at least [00:27:00] apply, to represent the college and nobody. Nobody that I know of actually came forward.

And so the, the night it was due at midnight, I decided to put in an application, to talk about the human animal bond, and the application was pretty detailed. I didn't know if I'd get have a chance or not. I mean, but as you say, if you don't put your name in, you're not gonna get an opportunity.

And so anyway, I made it through that round and then I had to, have an interview round with, and this is all organized by students. Uh, so there were probably eight, at least students sitting around a large conference table in a, room. And I was being interviewed. So sort of tables were turned where I was the one on the hot seat.

Well, I'll make a long story short. I got through that and they chose me. And I think our cohort had 12 people from all backgrounds in this TEDx [00:28:00] series, uh, which was held on a Saturday and mine was on the human animal bond. And that I eventually, the title of it was The Power of a pet, and.

They provide you a student coach who has gone through training to coach you on how to prepare, organize, and deliver a TED Talk. But I also had someone who was helping me with speech writing, and she had done a TED Talk. And so I sort of had two coaches. One a young student, one an older person who. Had seen life and, you know, done these types of things.

And so I, I did it and, you know, it got posted to YouTube and I've given a few talks here and there along the way on the topic. and then somebody says, you should turn that into a book. And I'm like, no, I don't think so.

I, I really don't have time to do that and I'm, I'm not the right person to do that. But then here you are after saying no three times you get talked into doing it. so that was my [00:29:00] experience with the TED Talk

Megan Sprinkle: Yes. And I just wanna acknowledge, 'cause I did watch your TED Talk. It is fabulous. It has over 217,000 views, so a few people have

Rustin Moore: and I watched it that many times.

Megan Sprinkle: It's definitely not just you because you know, you know what they say about reading comments, but this one might actually be worth reading the comments because they're all amazing and it just further shows. The power of the pet, about the human animal bond because people are commenting about their experience with an animal, or, uh, there were some really good ones.

Like, uh, one said every Ted Talk. Speaker should first be asked about their personal pets. It like, they're just the coolest comments. And so I enjoyed, I did not read them all. There's so many comments. but they're all good and just reinforces what you were speaking about and how this touches so many [00:30:00] people. And I think that's also a special thing that I appreciate about the human animal bond. I love watching people have joy and. People from all walks of life have a certain type of joy and a connection with an animal. And it's not just pets, which I'm glad that you go beyond pets too, and in your books cause there's some situations where people can't have pets. And that is, I think, what is so neat, and again, just like seeing all those comments just reinforces that what you're saying is absolutely true. And there is something back to using the word magical. Sorry, I keep coming there. Uh, really to it. Yeah.

Rustin Moore: Yeah.

Megan Sprinkle: So like I said, I watched the TED Talk, And it's just the kind of starting point for your book. So The first book is the Human Animal Bond. I should read it, harnessing the Power of the Human Animal Interaction. Your second one that you, you did mention earlier is also an interesting question that after reading this [00:31:00] one I was like, I have all these other questions about like things that get in the way.

So

Rustin Moore: correct.

Megan Sprinkle: to be negative, but like those are important to talk about as well, Before I, I get to that , I love the stories and again, I think that is where you start to see really. Example of what we're talking about and your Ted talk was full of different stories of everything from personal.

You gave the example of the horse that, was rescued during, I think it was Hurricane Katrina. You amputated her leg and now she inspires so many different people. and then of course the animals that have, uh, and. are currently in your life, like your Miniature schnauzers, You did a lot of research for your books.

I listened to one podcast and you said you've had over 70 interviews and I'm sure it's like at least doubled by that. I dunno how many you've

Rustin Moore: Close. Pretty close.

Megan Sprinkle: So reflecting back of all these conversations , and you said everyone you got [00:32:00] chills with, right? Like, so this is a, it is terrible to ask you favorites or something like that, but, so I'm gonna change the question.

I'm not gonna ask you what your favorite conversation is or what's your favorite story. I'm curious, of all these conversations that you had, there one that has made you rethink something you thought about the human animal bond or maybe just got a different perspective, like one of those you're like, oh, like that kind of moment.

Rustin Moore: Uh, there's many of those because when I outline the book. Which now is the first book. Some of these things that I've since written about had never come to mind. So many of these ideas came from conversations I had. This is one that sticks out in my mind and actually it's going to be in book four.

 which also has already has a title, but I'll go back to that in a minute. So I was talking to one of our alumni who I [00:33:00] know well, we talk all the time, and he was telling me this was, on a Thursday I believe. He told me that unfortunately he had to euthanize, his dog Beauford, which was a hound dog because of heart disease, lung disease, et cetera.

And I had met Beaufort before he euthanized him, and on Saturday he reached out said, I just heard Beaufort shake his head and his ears flapping in the other room. And I'm like, okay, eh. So we started talking and he told me the story and he said, every pet he's had in the last however many years, that animal once it dies, is present for some period of time. And so I started looking into that and there's this, whole phenomenon known as synchronicity or [00:34:00] visitation dreams. So I put out on Facebook as I just asked people, like, have you ever experienced it? So I got inundated with stories. There's a story of a lady, not a veterinarian, a lady who 20 years ago-ish, was at King's Island, which is an amusement park just outside of Cincinnati with her.

son who was I think eight or 10 years old and it was just the two of 'em and they were going about their business and he was having a good old time and around one o'clock she got really, really sick, nauseated , everything was spinning and so they, had to sit down and, , within time that passed and they were able to go about the rest of their time there.

And then they drive home and when they get there, her husband informs her that her dog died at one o'clock that day. now I'm getting chills even thinking about [00:35:00] it. And I was talking to someone yesterday, about this and saying, you know, I've never experienced it and I've had all sorts of animals.

And he says, actually, I have experienced that. And so, you know, it could be the, as you're sitting here, you see something go by and that's your cat or you're asleep and you, you feel your cat or your dog laying on your chest just like they always do. So, I'm not a psychic and I don't know all of this stuff, but there's a body of literature on this as well.

So that, that was just something completely. Open my mind to other things.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, what do you think that, uh, what layer does that add for the human animal bond?

Rustin Moore: Well, some could say, well, that bond is still there once they're gone. like in the [00:36:00] afterlife, that would be one or. that dog or cat is telling me it's okay. they're in a good place, or, you know, that kind of thing. I, so I think it's, it definitely related to the bond, uh, because if you didn't have the bond, you probably wouldn't experience it, uh, in the first place.

So because I'm not an expert on it, I don't wanna speculate, but I think it's something for people. To reflect on. And it's probably in some ways good, that maybe, maybe somebody has experienced it and they don't know that anybody else, maybe they think they're crazy. and it's okay. Uh, so that's one that comes to mind.

But there's so many other ones, And the good thing about this, all my interviews, I recorded them, and then I transcribed them. So I have all that stuff and so then I would, I can go back and like really dig into it or just, you know, [00:37:00] surf the internet and see what I find and then say, eh, that's not worth going and doing.

But most of the things that had been mentioned, I dug deeper into.

Megan Sprinkle: I, I hope you're interested in it, you know, after four books, so, it also speaks volumes to how much detail and layers there are into the human animal bond, which again, I, I think as you're showing, continues to grow in our understanding and. How, potentially, let me, let me just pose this.

You, you, done all the research, and you are at the center of veterinary medicine because , you are training the next generation. How do you think that the evolution and everything that you've learned so far, how do you think that's gonna impact the profession? Because that's, that's different, you know, human animal bond, again, that's, that's global.

That's so many different people and backgrounds and things. [00:38:00] Now coming back to veterinary medicine, has that changed how you see veterinary medicine? How do you think that will impact our profession?

Rustin Moore: I believe the human animal bond is universal, yet no two bonds are the same.

Megan Sprinkle: Hmm.

Rustin Moore: Universal meaning in cultures and religions and genders and, you know, communities, So as I have continued to be invited to do talks, I actually customize them to the audience. And so I now will talk about.

And this is in the veterinary practice community. We should be practicing veterinary medicine through the lens of the human animal bond, which means asking some of those questions, uh, that we talked about before, meeting the client where they are, et cetera. I gave a talk at a, an expo, around veterinary and other, uh, biomedical products.

And I [00:39:00] framed it around, when you're thinking about new products or marketing new products or whatever, view that through the lens of the human animal bond. I have a talk coming up at the Global Pet Expo, in Orlando in a couple of weeks. And I was just talking to the organizer yesterday about this and you know, same sort of scenario, but what you said about evolution.

I would take a step further and call it a revolution. I believe that we are in or will be continuing in the next revolution. We had the industrial revolution, we had the digital revolution. We have all these things. I believe we're going to see the human animal bond driving, and we already see it driving change, change in pet friendly, pet [00:40:00] inclusive housing, amenities, eateries, hospitals.

to me, it's something that. Almost everybody needs to be aware of whether you're in a business. is your business gonna be pet friendly? Whether you're an attorney and things around a policy or law, whether it's in the health sciences and how we know, based on all the research that's done and all the work that HABRI does, how it positively impacts the health and wellbeing of people physically, mentally, emotionally, et cetera.

 So I believe, the human animal bond is a revolution, and I'm not even gonna call it a pet revolution because it's broader than pets.

Megan Sprinkle: You know, funny enough, I was just talking to Dr. John Geller, the founder of the Street Dog Coalition, and so enough, a lot of things he's seeing and talks about kind of come into play, I think, on this bigger level. And I think that's kind of what he's [00:41:00] trying to help people understand is that this impacts human health so much and, he has struggled to sometimes, feel like people are recognizing what he's seeing. so, so my question for you is, we see this impact, we see this becoming a revolution. What do we need to do? And being the ultimate animal advocates - this is big part of our profession - what can we do to help the larger world understand that? what part do we play? What? can we do?

Rustin Moore: I think one, and this is really why I wrote the books, I didn't write the books, for any other reason, to educate and raise awareness so that people have the tools to act. And that's why my books, every chapter ends with a call to action section. And I believe that if you [00:42:00] educate yourself and you know, enough, you then would recognize things in your daily life or your daily work where that may be applicable.

And you then might have the information you need to act, or to know who to reach out to, to maybe do whatever it is that you need to do based on what you've observed. and I don't wanna say what each of us should do is promote my book. Uh, that's not what I'm saying. There's a lot of information out there on the human animal bond.

I've just tried to pull it together into something that also is digestible through stories that reinforce the information, the history, the science, et cetera. and, and, and the advocates and ambassadors. Of the human animal bond.

Megan Sprinkle: Have you seen any good examples of this? I, I can't remember which podcast I was listening that you were on, but you, you talked about even some local, in Ohio, missions around trying to [00:43:00] make the town more. Animal friendly, pet friendly, those kind of things. again, I'm curious with all your research and conversations are, are you seeing good examples of, of how this could look and, and maybe a good direction that, that you would recommend

Rustin Moore: Well, yeah, I mean, you mentioned John Geller. He's been doing great work, the work he does with, Project Street Dog. And then there's Kwane Stewart, who, both of them I admire immensely and they're in my books. And actually Quan wrote the Forward for second book, Unlocking the Bond.

They do great work. There's a one health clinic in Seattle where. You basically are providing care to the family as well as to, well, the human family as well as the animal part of the family. People will do for their pet before what they'll do for themselves. So if you get them in there by taking care of their pet and while they're there and once they've built trust and all that, if you have the [00:44:00] right, healthcare professionals, not veterinarians.

Okay, but nurse practitioners, nurses, whatever they are, so you could do blood pressure and a biometric screening and do all these things, and that actually helps the bond because you're keeping them together longer because hopefully both the person and the, the animal is, is healthier.

So there's all sorts of these examples around. We had one here and we still do work here, but, uh, those kinds of things are being done probably all across the US and I know in Canada, well John does work, in Ukraine and I know a lot of veterinarians that do mission work, in that space on the human animal bond.

Megan Sprinkle: Yep. He's actually going back to the Ukraine here in the summer, so he's, he said that was one of the highlights of his career

Rustin Moore: Yeah.

Megan Sprinkle: that. work. So coming coming back to the veterinary professional too, I've had several interviews recently [00:45:00] or, and over the course of the couple years of people talking about that connection with community and volunteer work, where they're doing technically the same work that they're doing, but there's, there's this joy and, you know, fulfillment that comes from doing some of this work that I think further highlights the human animal bond and comes back to our why and why we do these things.

Rustin Moore: Yeah, so I, I agree. And I, I actually was communicating with John earlier this week and he was telling me about the work. so let me just real quick, sort of name the books and I'll, I'll mention the last one. So. There's unleashing the bond, harnessing the power of human animal interactions.

That's number one. Number two, which is out, number two is out. That's unlocking the bond, and that is the power and paradox of human animal interactions. The third book I'm turning in tomorrow [00:46:00] for copy editing because the deadline is tomorrow, that is titled Restoring the Bond Resilience Through Human Animal Interactions.

And the fourth book is titled, tentatively, 📍 " Revering the bond, the sacred power of human animal interactions". And you know, in that, I think some of the work like we've discussed like John does and others does, I actually think that that fits in that 'cause they're not doing that work for money, they're not doing it for livelihood.

They're doing it be because they understand, appreciate the power of the bond in a person's life. So my guess is some of those stories will show up in that book.

Megan Sprinkle: That just gets everybody excited for all the things to come. well, our time has flown by. I'm not surprised. is there anything else that we have not talked about so far that you would love to, share with a veterinary audience? 

Rustin Moore: I know there are [00:47:00] people who, for various reasons, get burned out or they get to a point in their career that they leave the profession or whatever, and I, I respect that. I just wanna say that in my view, the veterinary profession is the best career for those people who want to do that. there's nothing about my career I would change.

and I don't think I'm being pollyannish about that. There's so many things you can do with a veterinary degree. That would be one thing. I would also say lean into the human animal bond in all you do and not just as a veterinarian. Maybe when you're walking in a neighborhood. I know I meet neighbors that I wouldn't meet because I have a dog with me or they have a dog with them.

Uh, that would be one. I would also, ask people to just make it a habit in their life every day. To be kind. Being [00:48:00] kind costs nothing, and you will benefit from it. , and the anyone that watches or sees you being kind will benefit from it. There is science behind that. and it almost impacts people like the human animal bond because of dopamine release, oxytocin release, serotonin release, et cetera.

So be kind , and live your life and your work through the human animal bond.

Megan Sprinkle: Yes. I constantly say it's so fun to be in this profession working around anything that has something to do with animals, because I think animals make us better humans, so they help us be kinder.

Rustin Moore: And Temple Grandin has a book, very similar title to that. , And Temple did the forward for my first book. And, temple Grandin and Marty Becker are co-wrote the forward for book three. 

Megan Sprinkle: Both great examples of how animals have impacted their [00:49:00] careers and lives entirely. so the question that I love to end on is what is something you are most grateful for?

Rustin Moore: well I'm most grateful for , my family and, and that goes back to when I was a kid, because I wouldn't be here if it weren't for them. we were from a, I would say a lower middle class, , family. but my parents who didn't go to college made sure all three of us, I have two brothers went to college and that we came outta college with no debt.

I appreciate the family I have now. Including my partner and my three dogs, Teddy, Travis, and Tucker. I'm grateful of my career and what people saw in me and gave me the opportunities all along the way. I've had great mentors and role models and I'm grateful for the opportunity to hopefully, uh.

Pay forward, as Woody Hayes often said, not payback, but [00:50:00] pay forward, by helping other people, whether it's veterinary students, new faculty, alumni, clients, whoever it is. that's what I'm grateful for.

Megan Sprinkle: Lean into the human animal bond in everything you do and make kindness a daily habit. The science says it changes you and everyone around you. If you wanna go deeper, all the links to Dr. Moore's books and his TED Talk. The Power of a Pet are all in the show notes. I highly recommend starting there and for a summary of the key takeaways from this conversation and ways to apply them to your own life and career.

Head over to the Sprinkle of Wisdom Substack for the podcast Club Guide for this episode. Link is also in the show notes. If this conversation resonates with you, please subscribe and share it with someone who you believe needs to hear it.

And until next time, keep reimagining what's possible in veterinary life.