Employee Ownership in Veterinary Medicine: A New Model for Practice Succession | Brin Neiers

Transcript

Brin Neiers: [00:00:00] I very intentionally set up that interview with the thought of like, I'm gonna see a red flag, and then I will be released. I will know that Vet Med is done with me, that I am done with Vet Med, and I can go on and be happy. And what happened was the exact opposite.

Megan Sprinkle: What happens to a veterinary practice when there are no plans for what comes next? This week's guest faced this early in her career when she was only 19 years old, and she may have found one of the most exciting answers in veterinary medicine right now. Most people in veterinary medicine don't think about succession planning until it feels urgent.

Because of an early experience in her career, Brin Neiers watched what happens when an unexpected event, leading to the sudden loss of their veterinary owner,

had the entire team figuring out what came next together. The moment planted a seed, and over the next decade, through corporate clinics, private practices, a startup, a remote job during [00:01:00] the. Global pandemic and raising twins as a single mom, Brin kept asking the same question: What does it look like when a veterinary practice is truly built to last?

She found her answer at Habitat Veterinary Hospital in Boise, Idaho. A two location practice with 12 veterinarians, where she is now the chief of staff and now a habitat is pioneering Something that's common in the uk, but almost unheard of in veterinary medicine in the United States. An employee ownership trust, a model where the team, including the receptionists, the technicians, the doctors actually own the business they show up to every day.

In this conversation, Brin and I talk about what employee ownership really means, why succession planning is one of the most urgent and underappreciated conversations in veterinary medicine right now, and what happens to a clinic's culture and its people when everyone has a seat at the [00:02:00] table. Let's get to the conversation with Brin Neiers.

When did you know that veterinary medicine called to you?

Brin Neiers: Oh, I mean, I think everybody wants to be a veterinarian when they grow up who loves animals? So, when it really started calling to me was 2007. Um, I was in college. I didn't know what I wanted to be when I grew up and took a job at a vet clinic to find out if that was it, and walked right in.

Megan Sprinkle: Well, tell us about your experience at your first medic clinic, because I feel like you have quite adventurous stories , but yeah. What was it like in your first clinic that hooked you?

Brin Neiers: Well, I really took the first job. It was a part-time reception position just to see if I wanted to be a veterinarian when I grew up. And it took like a whopping two weeks for me to go, no, I'm good. That level of stress is something that I don't know, like. Kudos to you. but I really loved helping the people who loved animals, so that part of [00:03:00] it stuck with me, and I really wanted to make a difference in that aspect.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, I constantly keep saying that I feel that animals make us better human beings. So when you kind of put all of it together, even though maybe your heart is on the people side, that there's, the animal part that just makes them so much more tolerable. So, so. but that is good to know.

It's always good to get experience to see if you know what worked for you and glad that you liked veterinary medicine. But a different role was what called, you, now remind me, I think this was also the practice where you watched, kind of some scrambling of figuring out business models and like what do you do with a practice when this happens to the veterinarian?

And I think this is super important 'cause it's kind of foreshadowing a little bit about what's coming. So do you mind kinda sharing, I know it's a traumatic story, but do you mind sharing that story?

Brin Neiers: Yeah, not at all. Um, I had only [00:04:00] been at that practice for about a month. I was still getting my feet underneath me. It really hadn't been very long and the practice owner was mountain biking and unexpectedly had a heart attack. He passed away and what resulted was just the mad scramble of what do we do now?

I was the least bonded with the practice owner because I had been there the shortest amount of time. So I was 19 years old, calling and canceling his appointments. And, at that point his widow inherited the practice. She wasn't able to own it for more than a year. So we started seeking someone to purchase our practice while really just a group effort, like didn't matter who was the boss, didn't matter who was new, we were all in it together to make sure that we could hold his legacy until we could find a new owner.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, and when you were describing him to me, you described him as being like a staple in the community. Like he was a very beloved veterinarian. So, any death is hard, but, you [00:05:00] know, something so sudden and someone who was so impactful and such a cornerstone for the community, of course in his family that's extra hard to have to call and explain all of that.

So, yeah.

Brin Neiers: Yeah, and he was in great shape. He was mountain biking, so it was the

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah.

Brin Neiers: anybody expected.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. So I mean, of course you were 19 at the time. You'd only been there a month, but w hat did you learn from that? Like watching business models and, and you described his wife could only own it for a year, and, and this was you, you have to be a veterinarian to own a practice. So according to state rules, like she could have it for a year, but she had to figure out what to do with it after that.

So were there things that you remember, like learning about business models and how a, a practice works or any, anything that you take away from that particular experience?

Brin Neiers: I mean, the thing I took away the most is that when we needed to come together, it worked really well. [00:06:00] It wasn't in us against them anymore. We weren't waiting for the practice manager to give us an answer. We were just doing what was right. And that aspect of it was really empowering. probably in hindsight, that's what led me to the seat that I'm in now as a practice manager because none of us hesitated.

We all wanted to do our best for each other and for our patients. And that model was unique because of the situation, but it was very sustainable. I guess jumping ahead. The practice was purchased at the end of the year by a, single veterinarian, and there were a lot of great things that happened, but it changed a lot. Um, the original culture that I had barely been exposed to because I was the new one there, definitely changed when the new owner came in. , And I remember thinking that it was unfortunate that some of the things had changed because there was no system in place to protect them.

Megan Sprinkle: Just speculation. this is a one-sided opinion, which is fine. 'cause this [00:07:00] is your story. Do you feel like It was just a different leadership style. Do you feel like. Anything else And, and the reason why I'm even asking this, of course, always we wanna learn from these scenarios, but maybe things that you might recommend for other people where you're getting a new owner coming into a practice.

And I think any change people get nervous about, right? Because you get used to one way. But that, that's my motivation for asking. Do you have anything that maybe you would recommend to people kind of watching this transition?

Brin Neiers: Yeah, I, I think that culture match is really important. And, at the current practice I'm at now, Habitat, we purchased our second location. Almost three years ago, so I've been on both sides of it. The differences that are going to be the sticking points in your culture and the way you practice medicine.

Having those conversations upfront, and that's really hard because it's almost like an interview process. You wanna put your best foot forward. You wanna [00:08:00] come in and be helpful, but like, can we just get real about what those differences are and how we are going to navigate them together? Because if you just try to sneak it in, it's not gonna work.

, It really ruins the trust of the team.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. Yeah. Now, I think after this hospital experience, you had a baby and or two babies. You had twins.

Brin Neiers: I was not sleeping. I should not have been working at that point.

Megan Sprinkle: yes. and you took a break and so I'm sure that now becoming a mother is a big part of going forward as well. I think I even saw that you did some remote work, with IT. So you're, you're getting some extra skills that are probably gonna come in handy.

Brin Neiers: Yeah, I, I loved remote working and it was the perfect gap. It was a lot of data entry, like it was a very boring time in my life, but that was what I needed

Megan Sprinkle: Uh, being a mother is not boring,

Brin Neiers: that.

Megan Sprinkle: so sometimes you need the boring job,

Brin Neiers: Oh my gosh, yes. There was very limited capacity on my [00:09:00] part.

Megan Sprinkle: especially twins. Oh my, oh. And may I ask, are girls, boys one of each?

Brin Neiers: One of each. I am a highly efficient, overachiever to the core.

Megan Sprinkle: very good, uh, characteristic for a hospital manager. So,

Brin Neiers: Thank you.

Megan Sprinkle: uh, so were you ready to go back to work into veterinary medicine? What, got you ready to transition back into doing hospital management again?

Brin Neiers: Yeah, I, um, I really didn't wanna transition back into hospital management. I was just really excited to like, get outta the house and maybe have adult conversations was great. So I took, an interview with a practice right down the street from my house. That was looking for a receptionist part-time.

Again, I very much said in the interview like, I have no ambition to be important here. I would very much like to just come in, take care of your clients, go home. and at that point I had asked if they were corporately owned and she had said no, which I found out later was not exactly the case. They were definitely corporately owned, but everything happened how it should have.

Megan Sprinkle: Do you think she just didn't know get that, what [00:10:00] that meant or?

Brin Neiers: She described it as like, oh, we have like this group, this thing that we're a part of, and they do like all the hr, like the hard backend stuff. And I was like, okay, that sounds fine. But they also really needed a receptionist at that point. So as a hiring manager, I can understand trying to sidestep it, maybe not that hard, but, she really needed somebody that could plug and play and I was gonna be that person.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. Well, back to what you said too, the transparency of communication and bringing everybody along is, is usually the, best policy, which, I mean, it sounds like you know, once you got in there and you're like, oh, 

Brin Neiers: This is definitely

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, it's very corporate not exactly what I was, uh, hoping for.

And you ended up, going to several different practices as very typical in our careers. You know, we're trying to find a good fit. but over that time you also mentioned that, you know, every practice you went to, you started to understand a little bit more of really what you were looking for in some of the.

[00:11:00] Things you admired about a practice and probably very clearly what you didn't what, in a practice do you mind kind of communicating that process, that learning, that understanding about you, but also your relationship with being in a veterinary practice.

Brin Neiers: Yeah, I mean, I am, uh, uniquely situated because of how many practices I've worked at and the different ownership structures, I think, to give kind of a bigger picture, so the corporate practice, I ended up in the manager chair because I'm a highly over efficient overachiever. So, the training and the knowledge that I gained from corporate, it was incredible, but it just wasn't right for me.

I wanted the decisions to be made closer to the room that they're going to be executed in. I went to a private practice that was very high volume and for me that wasn't the right fit. I went to a startup that was mixed animal. Anything with hooves, is out of my realm of expertise. I'm good. But seeing like the startup environment and how that ownership works, [00:12:00] the COVID hit.

So that was not going to be a fun time anyways. E very aspect of it, I got a little bit closer and a little bit further away, and by the time COVID hit and I ended up with the full COVID experience and being unemployed, I really wanted to leave vet med.

Megan Sprinkle: , I think a lot of people wanted to leave vet med, in, in middle of COVID, so people can probably empathize, but for multiple reasons. but yeah. You had mentioned you had joined a startup, which was a very different business model too: woman owned and led. but it was a mobile veterinary service. I don't know if I caught that.

Was that the mixed animal practice?

Brin Neiers: We had a, a one room practice that used to be a tiny home, so the OR was the same as the exam table. It just depended how we scheduled.

Megan Sprinkle: Were there animals that didn't fit? Um,

Brin Neiers: Uh, yes. luckily we had a part-timer who had more barn experience,

Megan Sprinkle: okay.

Brin Neiers: So I was completely inefficient as any kind of assistant and large animal.

Megan Sprinkle: [00:13:00] Uh, well, , trying to start anything around that time. I mean, that, that was really, really hard. And I know you mentioned you looked at, going back to remote work, trying to do maybe recruiting for both DVMs as well as MDs. , and then a little birdie told you that maybe you needed to go, interview at this one particular location. You mind sharing that story and, and how that kind of got you back.

Brin Neiers: I had, accepted the position as a recruiter and I saw this listing for Practice manager for Habitat. I knew of them about the same time that I joined into the vet med field, they were opening Habitat. So I remember hearing about the practice opening, but I really hadn't had any interaction. I did have a technician that I had worked with who worked for them.

So I called her and said, who are these people? What do you think? And she said they were amazing and that, oh my God, I needed to interview. And I was like, okay. But I very intentionally set up that interview with the thought of like, [00:14:00] I'm gonna see a red flag and then I will be released. I will know that VetMed is done with me, that I am done with VetMed and I can go on and be happy. and what happened was the exact opposite. The more that I got into the interview process, the more that everything that I was being told resonated. We were really honest with each other. By the time of my final interview, I left and bawled my face off because I wanted to work so badly for Reed and Hela, two of the practice owners.

Megan Sprinkle: So I'm sure people are like, what in the world did they do to get, to make you that excited? because I mean, it, it's hard to hire, it's hard to, uh, retain especially, um, and of course people know now based off what, how you said that is not only would, did they just make the interview sound good? You're still there.

So it, it was true. Right.

Brin Neiers: strong.

Megan Sprinkle: Uh, so it wasn't a, a, a bait and switch, which we're always slightly nervous about to you. what did you ask in the interview? What did they say? Like, give us the details, about this conversation that, [00:15:00] I mean, you were going in looking for red flags and you, you came out accepting the offer.

So I, I'd love to hear more.

Brin Neiers: really it was just how genuine they were and that a lot of my values lined up with their values. They were just getting ready to move into a brand new building, one month after, and. It was stunning. Just the space itself was so intentional. I remember seeing Dutch doors on what could be my office and thought I've always wanted that. oh my God, that's always something I wanted in a phone room for reception, especially coming from reception, like, oh, yes, that's amazing. but it was them, they were. Honest that they were worried about scaling. They were hiring on two veterinarians. They were moving into a new space. They didn't know how to scale their current culture to fit into a larger team, which was something that I had some experience about. , They talked about a bigger picture. You know, the, the burnout was an all time high. Then it was just post COVID. We actually moved and went back into masks. So we were right in that weird [00:16:00] period and how do we protect our people. Because that's the most important part of any medicine is the people who will provide it. And that really resonated with me. if it was someone else, maybe it wouldn't have. It was just that perfect fit. So as someone who does hiring too, I totally get it. We all want the magic phrase, but really it was just about being honest and ending up in the right place at the right time with the right people.

Megan Sprinkle: You had mentioned that they said something about you can actually work here and still be a mom, and that was one that was a, big value for you. Um, was that something that you specifically brought up in the, in the conversation or something they said on their own?

Brin Neiers: Yeah, that was, one of the last things that Hayla said to me before I left because I was very concerned with my schedule. Um, I'm a single mom, I have twins. At that point, we were still trying to figure out what remote learning was gonna do, if it was gonna come back, and I, I. Needed flexibility. [00:17:00] I remember telling her like, they'll grow up at some point.

At some point my schedule will become more open, but right now I need to be a mom. And she said, you can be a mom and work here. Like it was nothing like, it was some throwaway comment and that was when I legitimately started like crying, I have to get it out of this interview because I'm going to cry in an interview and that is so horrible.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, I think this, because this was back in 2021, so maybe like a little over about a year after the, uh. COVID started and so were Did you, was that still remote learning or had kids come back to school? I don't even remember.

Brin Neiers: barely gone

Megan Sprinkle: Okay.

Brin Neiers: but they were young enough, like I didn't have childcare for after school 'cause I was gonna work remote. I had given all that up and I was like, oh, this is so many moving pieces at the same time, like I, I just really need flexibility so that I can be there for my kids and they had no issue with, it at all.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. And the other thing before I forget, when you were saying you, you remembered. Habitat, as a clinic, all of this was in the same kind of [00:18:00] area in the same town.

Brin Neiers: Yeah, all of this has been in the Boise Valley, so, uh, ironically my first clinic and Habitat are, pretty close to each other. So, far as outside of town goes, it's all been very full circle.

Megan Sprinkle: Is that crazy? To drive by that hospital?

Brin Neiers: It's so wild. It's, yeah, it's absolutely bizarre.

Megan Sprinkle: but that's just kind of interesting too 'cause I think a lot of people think, oh, I have to move all over. Like, I, I can't go to another clinic because, you know, I can't move. And it's like, I mean, I do understand that there are some places where there's not as many clinics but also.

It's very possible that like the right clinic could actually be in the same town. it may just be down the street. So it's, it's worth asking and, and looking around to find that right fit. and I love, like you said, how honest they were about. Expressing their concerns and like, this is the challenge is we're trying to grow.

You know, we're not really sure how this can look with, with a [00:19:00] larger number of people. And. I guess they were welcoming you to be part of that conversation to help make some of those decisions. So what did you, how did you guide them? Like when you came in, you're excited, you're like, okay, this is right.

I am fired up about veterinary medicine again. How did you go in and start supporting these practice owners and, growing a a practice?

Brin Neiers: I mean, it helped that I was fresh and new. I started and a month later we moved and we moved ourselves. So apparently the idea had been just overwhelming to everyone else. I came in and was like, here's your color coded chart, and I have a floor plan. Like I was so excited to get back to work. but that was totally because I had not been in the land of COVID for how many months.

Like I hadn't gone through that transition with them. I really wanted to get to know the practice before I tried to influence anything. So I spent a lot of time talking with Reed and Hala, who are the managing owners. Um, I got to meet Dr. [00:20:00] Baker. He's the third owner. He let's the management stay with Reed and Hala. H e prefers the medical side, but I moved really slowly and then just tried to take what was working and intentionally grow that.

So we have a full leadership team now. Um, we don't call our leaders, leaders, we call 'em advocates because they're advocating both for Habitat and for their team. Everything that we've done, we've tried to be very intentional in growing and scaling and making it sustainable and being honest as a team if it just isn't working. because a lot of what we're doing is new.

Megan Sprinkle: Remind me how big the practice is now.

Brin Neiers: So we have two locations. I have, 12 veterinarians, about 10 full-time equivalent. We're not small,

Megan Sprinkle: Wow. No, that's super exciting. And then I think part of the reason why you got so excited to chat was the need to start thinking about succession planning. And [00:21:00] I'm curious how that conversation started. Did the practice owners come to you? Did you because. the succession planning part.

I don't think we talk enough about, and n ot even just in a practice setting. I am starting to see this in organizations and associations within veterinary medicine. We are having a generation that is retiring the baby boomers. It's a big generation and they're retiring, and some of the values and interests and even the things that some of these associations could offer are not as valuable anymore. So we're seeing people not as interested to, step up to leadership or things like that. And maybe you've seen this too, in, practices, but backing up, how did that Conversation start.

Brin Neiers: I was trying to think this morning. I don't know which one of us said it first.

Megan Sprinkle: Okay.

Brin Neiers: I [00:22:00] mean, Reed and Hala aren't right on the cusp of retirement. They still have, of years that I will make them stay, but, but they are forward planning, further out than other veterinarians that I've worked with, which was nice. for me, I still have a, a long time in my career and I finally found the perfect fit. I don't wanna lose it because I've gone through those transitions so.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah.

Brin Neiers: We started talking about employee ownership pretty organically. Dr. Lindenberger, he said he was just curious and started Googling and trying to figure it out, and it's an overwhelming amount of information, but the more we looked at companies that were employee owned outside of VetMed, and the more we looked at the models, the more it became clear that that would be a way to protect our culture moving forward through succession, and that it wouldn't require us to sell to corporate or to another buyer. Instead, it could remain like those decisions remain in the room, which was really exciting. But [00:23:00] the amount of information was really daunting when we first started.

Megan Sprinkle: Yes, and in my a little bit of time of trying to Google it, I can only imagine. What industries did you look at that have done this model that you kind of used as some examples? 'cause you're, it is in veterinary medicine and we'll get to that. But I'm curious about some of the other industries that have done this well that you looked at.

Brin Neiers: Yeah. it depends on what type of employee ownership. So there's a huge, grocery chain here called WinCo. They're employee owned as an esop employee stock option plan. there is a landscaper that Reed was driving behind one morning while he was thinking about it and saw on the truck back, like employee owned, that he got in touch with that owner to talk about.

Like, what was that transition like? What do you like about it? What do you not like about it? The employee owned trust in particular, which is what Habitat's looking at, is very popular in the uk. It's not [00:24:00] as popular in the United States. So we've been working with two specific groups that help transition to employee ownership, and that has been the game changer because that's all they do. So they're able to look at industries in Europe and see how it translate to an industry here.

Megan Sprinkle: Why do you think it's not as common in the United States?

Brin Neiers: I'm not sure, other than we just don't know about it yet. I mean, need breeds innovation, right? So this need is here and I think that's really what's driving us towards it. there's no clear cut answer as to why it hasn't caught on here other than it's just different.

Megan Sprinkle: Okay. So it's just more of a, a new concept. I'm curious and yes. Working with an organization that knows how to do this is, it's always best to outsource to people who know what they're doing. what have you learned in the process of this unique business model? And again, we just said it's new, [00:25:00] so if you were.

Speaking to as you are, you're speaking to people who, are interested in hearing about a different type of business model, because I think this is a very hot topic right now. Right? How can we do, different business models in veterinary medicine? How would you explain that? Maybe even thinking about your own journey, trying to understand it, but how would you start to explain it?

Brin Neiers: Yeah, so the employee owned trust model is unique in that the trust owns the business. So just like the seller would sell to a corporation or they would sell to an a private party, uh, you're actually selling your practice to a trust as a legal entity, which. I feel like I have moments, I wrap my brain around this and I have moments that I can't, it's kind of an abstract concept. that employee owned trust has a governance committee that watches out for the trust. Those are elected by the employees. They [00:26:00] can be, or they can be partially elected. The nice thing about trust is that they're very, very flexible. Then there is a board that. Is appointed by the trust committee that will make decisions on behalf of the employee owners and they appoint management, they make sure that the hospital stays running. So it's this very cool checks and balances system that gives everyone a voice that is actually inside of the business, but it doesn't require anyone to buy in. It doesn't require anyone to sign their life away, that they're going to be on the board for the rest of their existence. It's definitely possible to come in and do your normal job and not think about ownership, which was important for us. We didn't want anyone to feel like they needed to commit for the rest of their lives if this is not necessarily the rest of their lives. A lot of people have a journey and it's gonna take them away. and the trust is great because you don't have to be huge. Employee stock ownership programs, they generally require a certain size, but they're very, very complicated [00:27:00] administratively, and you have to be a certain size to qualify, which even as big as we are, we weren't there yet.

Megan Sprinkle: You mentioned that for some it, you could just, you wouldn't even know it. Notice a difference, right? Like they walk in, they do their job, they go home. What are the changes? Like how could this impact employees? I know you mentioned you were doing some. I don't know another word other than course to teach the employees about business and how to do these things because now they're.

They have a business role, like, um, which I think is so important to actually educate people about this so they understand the back end of it so they can better one vote, contribute, you know, understand what they own. so other than maybe some additional education, which my guess is that you came up with that, not necessarily like that, that's a requirement.

But yeah, like how, how does that impact the employees? How [00:28:00] would walking into work be different for them?

Brin Neiers: Realistically, it doesn't need to be.

part of our preparation has been watching these webinars. One of the groups puts on with other owners from out of industry, obviously. I just watched one where he had his friend pass away and he saw his business dissolve and he didn't wanna see that happen to his business, so he just did it.

He didn't tell anybody. his big takeaway was like, don't be afraid of it. You'll figure it out later. Just do it. I'm too type A. I think that would make my brain break, but uh, it really can be just that easy. That being said, in order to have the team understand what this is going to mean for them and work for, I mean, with an ownership mindset.

That's really the, the phase we're in right now is building that within our team. I'm excited because I'm usually the only one who talks about average transactions or COGS expenses. So everybody gets [00:29:00] to be involved now, which is exciting, but also how do we not overwhelm them? So that's not their only focus because that would be very, very against our culture.

We always think of medicine first. so yeah, we just made a Google classroom. As we speak, the team is going through it just to learn like the basics of this is what an expenses, this is what a cogs is, this is how we operate. So when we sit down at our next quarterly meeting to talk about our goals as a group, we'll all be able to talk about that aspect because we'll have the shared language and understanding. but that's very much like any mission. I mean, if your mission as a hospital is to practice the best medicine, everybody's gonna be taking CEs. Everybody is going to be working towards that same goal. This is just a different goal to work towards.

Megan Sprinkle: based off of listening to some of these webinars, talking with other industries, What do you think are some of the biggest benefits, especially for you individually that got you so excited about this model? Like What are the best things that you [00:30:00] like about this?

Brin Neiers: The ability to have more of a voice. I mean, for me it's longevity. Absolutely. I wanna protect Habitat as long as I can and, and I think it needs to exist far beyond my departure. but the ability to have different seats at the table that, you know, would we have such a high turnover rate with our technician teams if they were in, where the decisions were being made? Would our receptionists have as bad as burnout that they have with upset clients if they were actually in the discussion to talk about how we process those clients. I think all of us really strive to have as many voices in the room as possible. I know that we have, but there's a level of accountability that changes when you're in it as a group. right back to that first practice that I was at, I was thinking about that this morning of like, we all just had to sit at the table and go, what can we do?

And this gives us a better way to do that. Not to mention the profit sharing. Uh, [00:31:00] once we get there, uh, that's gonna be huge for our entire team, not just somebody who's been there 10 years or someone who holds this title. Like, we really wanna share the wealth with everyone.

Megan Sprinkle: I definitely see that potential. When you own something, you treat it differently. I think people talk about that with cars. If you rent a car, it's not yours. You don't care if you threw trash and left it right, you own a home. It's different than if you're renting, like there's something about ownership that it changes your behavior or your how you feel about things.

The other thing that, when you were talking about that, is this a potential way for veterinary technicians to have a more sustainable career path. Like does this help them with finances? I don't know. Again, I, I only know so much about this model, but is that also something that could be beneficial at looking at this specifically in veterinary medicine?

Brin Neiers: I [00:32:00] think so. I mean, like you said, when you own something, you treat it differently. Having that voice as someone who's going to vote or someone who's going to sit on the board, being able to bring that perspective, I think that that could shift a lot in our industry. The profit sharing could shift a lot in our industry. and as we are growing into this and gain momentum, there's a lot of areas of opportunity that are off the floor that if we have a technician who has interest, then let's figure out how to get you that project too. A really good example is our benefits coordinator. one of our technicians, Maddie.

She's fantastic. She is practically the left hand part of my brain at this point. She loves it. I hate it. I, there's nothing else I would rather do less. I take it back AP, but like that part of it, I, I want nothing to do with. So she was able to step into that role with some training, obviously. And, for her, it's really filling up her cup.

She really likes it. And where we're keeping all of that in house. There have been things that [00:33:00] we've wanted to outsource, have experts come in, obviously, but there's a lot of opportunity there for growth that she still is an amazing technician. She's still on the floor. She just has this other thing that she loves to do too.

Megan Sprinkle: I like that. I mean, I am also an advocate for outsourcing things that you need, but I also like the idea of asking internally first, just to see if someone is interested in learning and, I think that's a, a good mindset to give those opportunities to your internal team to see, and maybe they hate it.

I don't know. You know, there's nothing wrong with trying it.

Brin Neiers: had that. totally have it. Where somebody's like, I wanna do this, and then they get into it and they go, this is awful. And I'm like, well, don't do it. It that's gonna make your day horrible. Like, let's find a different way.

Megan Sprinkle: It's good to try. But yeah, being able to say, you know, yeah, I do like this, or, oh, maybe not, let's outsource. That's fine. , We haven't talked too much about your, your leadership style, but, uh, I can definitely tell. I mean, you love this practice, you love the people within it.

You're getting [00:34:00] excited about, supporting it, making this practice sustainable. Everything from its culture to, you know, the employees that are there. From your time in veterinary medicine, what are your thoughts and words of wisdom when it comes to leadership and, working with veterinary teams?

Brin Neiers: Oh, um, everybody has a.

Piece of them that will have more knowledge than you. And as a leader, you don't be afraid of that. I have always really respected my veterinarians because I, cannot do that job. I also do not understand that job. it is my job to manage that job. So I've gotten really used to being uncomfortable and asking questions and going, what's that?

Like? Why is that important? Uh, the same applies with our technicians and with our CSRs and with the entire team. That's one thing that Habitat had that [00:35:00] predates me that I had always wanted was just really no hierarchy in that way. Reed has a sign on his desk that he is had forever. Uh, it's like a printed piece of paper that says, make a team so strong.

You don't know who the boss is. There's been times over the last five years where we've looked at that sign and gone, is that even possible? Like, will we ever get there? And then there's times like the past couple of weeks where I've looked at the team and gone, Nope, you'd have no idea. Because everybody really owns it. and just don't push fit that doesn't fit. For me, I stayed too long in practices that were a poor fit and that was really leading to my burnout. I think that really contributed to me wanting to leave the industry. Habitat is not for everyone and that's okay because for some people it's everything. the same applies to every other vet clinic in America. If you don't have the right fit, don't stay. Our people are our most valuable resource, so don't burn yourself out. Don't burn the team out that you're managing saying, no, stay here. It'll be fine. Like it won't. It's [00:36:00] okay. We can help each other by supporting what's going to be best for the individual because ultimately that's what's going to be best for the group. and for me it's just transparency, which can be good and can be bad. It can make people uneasy. I probably would not be the easiest manager if you just wanna come in, clock in, clock out, go home, don't think about it. I like to be transparent and bring people into problem solve because that individualized specialty that you have could be nothing related to your job, and it could be everything we need at that point in time.

Megan Sprinkle: you have a particular example that, any one of these leadership skills or recommendations, 

Brin Neiers: Um, oh, so many. I am really, really fortunate that we have an amazing team, so. There's been a lot of people who have found us, who were in the same boat as me. They were really burnt out. I usually warn people who have worked in VetMed before, like there's this detox period that. At some point within [00:37:00] like three months to six months, you're gonna freak out.

And I did it too. that just, you're not fighting the same things that you were fighting. We're getting lunches, we're talking to each other. Your day's going well. Medicine is collaborative and at some point you're gonna freak out. And then you're gonna call me and we're gonna take a walk. ' cause we're right next to a green belt around a pond.

So we're gonna take a walk and we're gonna talk and you're gonna freak out. We have a reception advocate who she didn't realize that's what we were doing until she's like, oh no, this is that freak out that you told me about. I'm like, yeah, it's okay. Like you're where you're supposed to be. You can relax now. When I came in, I did the same thing to our medical director. I kept being like, when does the other shoe drop? When does it happen? There's no way you guys like each other this much. but that correct fit when it locks in, it really, it's, it's a panic and, and it's a relief. Our reception advocate is one of them.

Maddie, who I mentioned, earlier, she's definitely another where she came from other practices where she just was not flourishing and now she is on fire. she's got her, skills so [00:38:00] diverse at this point, and she's such an exceptional technician. I know how I could be without her. and she's a lifer like me. Our technician advocate who handles inventory. She's a savant, which I so appreciate because I am not, that is not a great role for me. she had come from another state and found habitat and has really grown. She has talked about how much we've pushed her to communicate and not avoid conflict, which is a big part of our culture. just to get to that point of transparency, if anything, we're all just too nice to each other and we forget that we have to talk to each other. We don't wanna hurt each other's feelings, and that's even harder. So like, how do we talk to each other and not be jerks? There's no one on the team or I would say there hasn't been some moment of blossom even to somebody who hasn't worked in the industry before. Um, one of our technicians is just getting ready to go through our curriculum for surgery and like she's so excited and we're all so excited for her. that kind of a culture is really cool to be around for [00:39:00] me.

Megan Sprinkle: Curriculum for surgery, do you, do you have like internal trainings? What? What does that.

Brin Neiers: Mm-hmm. Yep. We work with at Dove so, we have a lot of their training videos. We've pulled a lot of resources from different locations and uh, we have a really robust program to make sure that anyone wanting to learn those skills is coupled with an experienced technician that they are working through it without the like, my first surgery as a technician was a pyo in a Great Dane.

I don't ever want anybody to feel that way again. I had no business being in that OR. We've been really intentional to make sure that there's a curriculum around it. So by the time you hit the floor and you are with your trainer, you already have a knowledge base that you're going to need to build on. Because in Idaho we don't have any regulations really around certified technicians. So there's a lot of different ways to be a technician in Idaho.

Megan Sprinkle: Oh, okay. but before I, I leave this and ask another question. When it comes to going back [00:40:00] to succession planning, 'cause again, you're, you're trying to protect a practice. I love that the owners are thinking so far out. Any pieces of wisdom, again, for people who are thinking about succession planning, maybe not even necessarily succession planning, maybe they're just curious about this business model. what things would you recommend for people that are either curious about looking at other business models or succession planning in general?

Brin Neiers: to just really zoom out there's this false idea that there's this way or this way, and there's, uh, uh, more options than that. Sometimes it's, you gotta get a little creative. It's uncomfy because it's new. I would love to talk to anyone else that's looking at this model because two heads are better than one.

The collaboration would be great, but don't get stuck in a certain way of thinking. If it doesn't feel right, then explore other options. and know that there's those of us out here who are, and that It's possible. We're still in the [00:41:00] messy middle, so we don't know exactly where it'll go or how we'll pull it off, but it's an option and you don't have to be stuck with one answer or the other.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. Yeah, every clinic is a little bit different. Everybody's in different situations, so it's, It never hurts to. Explore and, and just, you know, see what the options are. A question that came to my mind, listening to you is, and I'm an advocate for, even in other roles in veterinary medicine, I think our skills can be very transferable.

And in veterinary medicine we, we have a lot of opportunities that we can transfer our skills to other things. Your skills are, I mean, you're, you're very organized. Like you're, you're that type A, you definitely fit in VetMed, um, but you have such transferable skills. You could technically go to any industry and implement all of these skills and strategies.

What is it about veterinary medicine that keeps you here? And you know, you mentioned you've had thoughts about [00:42:00] leaving it, but you know, finally finding your home is good, but there is potentially good cultures and other things in other industries. What is it about veterinary medicine that you love so much?

Brin Neiers: I mean, I don't know that you can get more meaningful than veterinary medicine. And because of that, those of us who are drawn to it, we don't always behave like people think we're going to behave. Um, and I love that wild card aspect of, alright. I have a goat and no fluid pole. I'm gonna use a wrench as my fluid pole.

I, I was in that room. I know what that feels like. we're willing to put in the work to help something that can't thank us, who might eat us, and it's hard not to make that altruistic of like it's puppies and kitties. How can you not love that? Yeah, it's hard. It's incredibly hard. But the group of people who are called to do that, there's a heck of a lot that we can do together because it's for something bigger [00:43:00] than us, so meaningful.

I don't think that I could go work and make widgets. I don't think that I could. Even work in like a retail environment and have somebody yell at me because something's too expensive. Like, no way. I used to be a part of the team that saved animal lives. I don't think I can ever outgrow that. And that it's just, it's different every day. There's enough consistency, but it's different every day. You don't know what's gonna walk through the door. You don't know what medicine is going to change or things are going to improve, and that part keeps me on my toes and I love it. It's not for everybody, but for me it totally fills up my cup.

Megan Sprinkle: I love that. Well, before I ask you my final question, anything else we didn't talk about or any other things you'd wanna say to veterinary professionals?

Brin Neiers: Um, Is there anything about the employee ownership structure? I didn't wanna go too in depth because there's professionals for that,

Megan Sprinkle: No.

Brin Neiers: anything that direction that you wanted to touch [00:44:00] on?

Megan Sprinkle: Maybe understanding if this is more of a right model. I think. The way you describe the practice of how invested people already are in the practice makes that business model.

Seem natural, you know? And I think there are certain practices where people aren't, are more clock in, clock out kind of people. And I, I think that would be a harder transition. Like, I think it would be harder to picture even want, like that, this sounds terrible, right? Like, but even wanting to offer that to people that don't feel like they are in it.

Right? And so I, I think that I. It's a super exciting business model, but I think it's, for certain clinics. and, and tell me if I'm wrong. 'cause again, you know far more than I, I do. 

Brin Neiers: We, uh, just this week, uh, because I was preparing to come on and I'm like, all right guys, ask me your questions. And one of our, [00:45:00] our senior technician who's been there, JT has been here for 12 years, I think at this point. She said the practice before this, there's no way, like, there's no

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah.

Brin Neiers: ownership would've worked there.

Megan Sprinkle: Right.

Brin Neiers: is not a one size fits all. it's just a different option. And that's something that I've struggled with because I've watched in the scope of my career, I've watched Vet Med really try to draw some boundaries and we needed it bad.

Megan Sprinkle: Hmm.

Brin Neiers: we were burning out because we were working way too hard for way too little pay, way too many hours.

and it reflected in all of us, but I'm programmed to the point where I could just clock in and clock out. Like if I see an issue, I, I want to solve it. And maybe that's the, the practice manager's standpoint, like that's my brain space, but I don't think it is. and then how do we build a space for people who do want more, who do want to be part of building something and make it not at the expense of their sanity or their effort? There's a really weird balance point there, and I [00:46:00] know that I don't always get it right. Sometimes I do work too many hours, sometimes I probably should slow down. so how do we find that other space where if you do want more, this is how you could be involved without the system taking advantage of you. And I think that's part of employee ownership is because the system, the business is employee owned. You're making those decisions yourself. So if you're giving too much, you correct the system. You don't have to wait for the system to correct you. that aspect I think is something, but it's such a big question that I, I spend a lot of time thinking about it, of like, where is that line?

Megan Sprinkle: I have had people talk about, and not just here, but in veterinary medicine, about things being a systemic issue

Brin Neiers: Mm-hmm.

Megan Sprinkle: where it's, you have to change the system. For things to be corrected. And so that, that was a trigger for me when you said that. I was like, Ooh, that makes me think even more.

So. Yeah, like it again, explore options. It could be the [00:47:00] right one. And it's an interesting angle on it of it allows you to have everybody contribute to the system. And so if the system needs to be changed, everybody's contributing to make it work for. the whole culture.

Brin Neiers: Yeah. And as far as anything that I'd emphasize just how customizable it is, the way that we are talking about setting this up might be radically different than the way that another practice would set it up. that is a huge benefit of the trust. It is also a huge stress point because how do you create all of that?

And we've gotten really lucky in some aspects that we have a lot of systems that'll translate. We were big enough and we scaled enough that we had to,

Megan Sprinkle: Hmm.

Brin Neiers: but there's no one size fits all here. It could be radically different depending on what the practice needs.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, well, you may start to be the people people go to, to talk about this. [00:48:00] So document, document, document. Keep having conversations. Uh. You know, I, I know you, you will, you'll think about things in, in multiple ways. So you will be able to teach it, I think, going forward.

And hence why you're here. You got excited about it and wanted to share that there are other options out there. So I wanna really thank you for being willing to do that and just to again, pique people's interest and don't think there's, there's a and B, there's probably CD. Et cetera. Because it sounds like even with this, like there's multiple options within, so that's always e exciting is that there's possibilities out there.

Brin Neiers: Well thank you so much for having me on and letting me talk about this, and I really appreciate it. 

Megan Sprinkle: Well, I always love to end on a final question, and that is what is something you're very grateful for right now? Just the first thing that comes to your mind.

Brin Neiers: Very grateful for right now is a team who is willing to ask me questions because I am going on a [00:49:00] podcast. Who am I to go on a podcast? And they spent all week, bombarding me, like while I'm walking through treatment, being like, tell us about employee shifts. So I am so grateful to work on a team that will joke around and help me prep for something like this.

Megan Sprinkle: I want to thank Brin Neiers again for her enthusiasm on sharing her experience. And this unique business model on Vet Life reimagined. And if this conversation has made you think differently about what's possible for the future of your practice, or made you realize that succession planning is a conversation worth starting now rather than later, I hope you'll take at least one action to do something about it.

Brin is still in what she describes as the messy middle of this journey with Habitat, and she genuinely wants to connect with others who are curious about employee ownership, Whether you're a practice owner, a manager, or someone who just wants to understand what this model could mean for the profession, reach out to her.

For a full summary of the key takeaways from today's episode and ways to apply them to your own career and [00:50:00] practice. Head over to our sub. Stack for the podcast Club guide. Please subscribe and share it with someone in veterinary medicine who needs to hear it. And until next time, keep re-imagining what's possible in veterinary life.