From Reactive to Root Cause: How Staying Curious Built a Career Worth Waking Up For | Dr. Lily Chen

What if the future of veterinary medicine looked less like putting out fires — and more like helping pets thrive before they ever get sick?

Dr. Lily Chen is an integrative veterinarian in California who has built a practice around exactly that. After years in high-pressure emergency and general practice, a patient named Lucy changed everything — sending Lily deep into acupuncture, herbal medicine, and microbiome science, and toward a root-cause approach to healing that has transformed her practice and her patients' lives.

In this episode we cover: 

·      How one patient sent Lily from conventional medicine into integrative care 

·      Microbiome Therapy and Dr. Lily’s pet fecal microbiome transplant technique

·      How to talk to clients in a way that builds trust 

·      How Lily built a career she is genuinely excited about — and what that can look like for you

Whether you're curious about integrative medicine, looking for a different way to practice, or simply wondering if veterinary medicine can feel better than it does right now, this episode is for you.

Resources:

🎙️ Video episode on YouTube

📬 Podcast club guide + key takeaways: Sprinkle of Wisdom Substack  

🔗 Connect with Dr. Lily Chen

Transcript

Lily Chen: [00:00:00] Cause most often when I look back from a year ago, I'm doing something now that I never thought I would be doing, and that's the really cool thing about this career is that there's so much that's possible

Megan Sprinkle: At seven years old, she walked out of a veterinary clinic and wondered, "Can this experience be better?" Her veterinary career has been the answer to that question. Dr. Lily Chen found her career mission at age seven, standing in a cramped, stressful animal hospital in Taiwan, watching her dog shake with fear and thinking, "Does it have to be this way?"

That question has never left her. Born in Taiwan, Lily immigrated to the United States at age 13, knowing minimal English, attended a unique boarding school with an accredited zoo, and went on to earn her veterinary degree from UC Davis. She built her clinical foundation in busy, high-pressure hospitals in Los Angeles, from emergency medicine to general [00:01:00] practice, before a long-time beloved black lab patient named Lucy changed everything.

Searching for more options to support her patients, Lily discovered acupuncture, herbal medicine, microbiome science, and a root cause approach to healing that has since transformed how she practices, how she thinks, and how she shows up for every patient and family that walks through her door.

Today, Dr. Chen runs an integrative practice in Los Angeles where most of her patients come in healthy, not sick, and where hour-long appointments allow her to be a genuine partner to the families she serves. And we didn't use these terms, the way she practices beautifully demonstrates the collaborative care and contextualized care models in constant conversation these days.

And while we talk about what she has learned from a medical perspective, what leaves me in awe the most about our conversation is Dr. Lily's mindset. [00:02:00] Lily talks about practicing presence, inviting pet families to focus on what's possible right now. She also approaches each year with genuine curiosity, looking back and marveling at the things she's learned and done that she never would have predicted 12 months earlier.

And she has found a place in her career through the long and winding road it took to get there, where she wakes up on a Sunday genuinely energized for the week ahead. I'm so excited to share this episode with you, so let's get to the conversation with Dr. Lily Chen.

 I got to listen to the early episodes from your own podcast, and so I was able to hear a little bit of your early veterinary beginnings, you're one of the early identifiers. You knew you liked animals from a young age, but you were also born and spent several years of your childhood in Taiwan.

So I'd love to hear a little bit more about how you grew up and how you were around animals and started to develop that [00:03:00] love.

Lily Chen: Oh, yeah. Thanks Megan. It's super fun to have sit down and have this conversation. yes, born and raised in Taiwan until I was 13, and I can remember as early as three years old that my grandma used to live in a pretty rural side of town, and it's like, I remember there was a mountain trail right in the backyard of her house, and we would take walks every morning and I would remember that.

I would see critters. And sometimes if we encounter stray dogs or even kittens, I would just want to bring them home. And I did. It's just, but in my very early childhood, I remember that I would bring them home. We would have them for a couple days and they would kind of disappear. I, should have asked my grandma what happened to them, but my grandma also loved the animals, You know, we would get these baby birds and we would raise them. And [00:04:00] I remember little ducklings, little chicks, little like those water turtles, all kinds of different creatures, even like little mice. And we would raise silkworms, all sorts of things. And I, I just remember that part of my childhood and. I think my family always knew that I would go into something animal related, and I think by six or seven years old, I told my family that I would want to one day own a animal hospital.

So 

Megan Sprinkle: oh, 

Lily Chen: I. 

Megan Sprinkle: an animal hospital. See, that's a whole nother level of knowledge. 

Lily Chen: I, I think I said, and my, my parents told me this because I actually don't remember, remember exactly when I said it, but they said yes. Um, when you were six and seven. We had a dog back then, and we took her to an animal hospital and it, it was very. Sterile. And I just remember [00:05:00] even in early age, it, it didn't smell very good.

It was very cramped. There are lots of animals, lots of people, and everyone was like worried and stressed and I felt like my dog was shaking and she was really scared. And I came home and I said, when did I feel like an animal hospital should not feel like a hospital should feel like a home?

Animals should be comfortable. People should not be stressed. Like I was stressed because I saw my dog scared. And it's like, why does it have to be like that? So. It was really interesting because I almost forgot that part, but I felt like my whole journey was about coming home to that 7-year-old girl who wanted to start something and creating a healing space where animals, you know, when they come and get care, they don't have to be scared. 

Megan Sprinkle: I am so impressed because sometimes that might deter people. They'd be like, Ew, you know, 

this is not fun. I don't want to do this. And yet you're, you saw this and like, I can make this better. Like, why can't this be better? And so to me that just [00:06:00] speaks volumes of how you look at things. even from an early age.

So what was it like, coming to a new country when you were like 13 is also a really rough age, what was that like transitioning?

Lily Chen: looking back, I, I think that it was such a. Like you said it, it was a very interesting age. 'cause 13, you're just coming into your teenagehood and you're still trying to figure out yourself and then you're thrusted into this whole new culture. I spoke a little bit of English, but not really, right?

So I had to learn the language from the get go and I was in upstate New York where it was really a very, very different. Kind of setting than what I was used to. 'cause I, in Taiwan, I was more of a city girl. But actually New York is also countryside New England. Like very pretty, but I wouldn't say rural, [00:07:00] suburban maybe, but you know, people, people were very, very nice though.

I just remember coming in and for the first time in my life, not knowing. What to do at all with anything, because I didn't even know how to take a school bus to school. I didn't know how to talk to people and I didn't know what my teachers were saying. And. You know, you literally, we had, um, I had a little translator I would take with me every day and every word I had to look up and you, you just start to build that.

But for the first couple years, really I was very, very quiet because one, I didn't know the language of course, right. Until I was just trying to. Find out who I am as a 13-year-old girl and trying to deal with this move and the culture shock and all of that. And I think that that changed me [00:08:00] fundamentally in ways now when I look back, because before I came to this country, I actually was very outspoken, very extroverted, and loved public speaking.

And when I came here, because I didn't speak the language the first, first time, didn't know how to do school, right? I was always pretty good at school, but now like everything is in a foreign language, and I think my confidence was crushed a bit, but I did have the determination to figure it out. I just didn't have the tools quite yet.

And those years have, I think, transformed me in a way to be more of a reflective person that I did. I wasn't the first person to talk about something, voice my opinion, or raise my hand in class and ask a question even if I did have a question. I've learned to be quite, introverted and reflective, and [00:09:00] I would think a lot before I speak because one initially was really trying to find the right words, but that carried a lot through, those years and beyond. But I also learned during that process, I worked harder. I had to work harder than everyone else if I wanted to be successful, right?

If I wanted the grade I wanted, if I wanted to make the friends I wanted, if I wanted to understand the world around me. So I think those years also taught me a lot of about grit and determination. So not very easy years. I think between the ages 13 to 18 were hard, but I was surrounded by really, really kind people who gave me a lot of grace and patience.

very important people in my life in that period as well.

Megan Sprinkle: That can be crucial, to help us, no matter what situation we're in. [00:10:00] but I mean, as. Most people who have gone through veterinary training can attest to it takes some grit to get there and to get through it as well. So, 

while it doesn't make it easy when you're going through it, um, maybe in hindsight we can appreciate it for some extent.

so did you ever, Waiver from your thoughts of working with animals, what was your thoughts going through high school and, and college?

Lily Chen: No. So the cool thing about my high school was that it had a zoo in it. I ended up gonna a boarding school. It had a accredited zoo attached to it. I think it's like the only high school that had that. So. I got throughout high school. That was my escape. You know, I could go in and the, the animals were, a lot of them, because they were bred in captivity, they were raised with people and we would have different [00:11:00] jobs, right?

You could sign up for company service or you could go feed the animals and all of that. And many of them you could kind of go in and hang out with 'em. Like I remember I would go into the lemur cages and just hang out with them in the red panda. And those were really, really fun memories. And I think if anything, those were the years where I really solidified my love and what

I wanted to do with my career.

so I don't think I ever wavered.

Megan Sprinkle: That is really cool. Not everybody is super jealous of so I mean, you got all this experience with different types of species. So when you went into vet school, did you think small animal or did that change at all through vet school? What did you think you would do?

Lily Chen: I originally went to vet school, wanted to be a zoo vet or exotics because I did work with so many different species And animals, and I thought that would be the coolest job in the world until I found out [00:12:00] how competitive and scarce those jobs are, especially if you wanna be a zoo vet, there's only so many zoos in the whole country.

And just for practicality, I'm like, I don't think that's going to work for me to just have to pick up and move anywhere where there's an opening. Right. And also, I don't know if I could just do that and not do dogs and cats because companion animals still have my heart. So I focus on dogs and cat companion animal care.

But I also did take quite a bit of classes in exotics because I had thought that would be kind of a complimentary way to learn and still be able to treat different species. Didn't end up focused on exotics, mostly because those opportunities didn't arise early in my career. I still have a love for them, so, we'll, we'll see what happens in life 

Megan Sprinkle: And you're in California, so who knows what people have as pets. 

Lily Chen: Yeah. 

Megan Sprinkle: which, you know, we started in New York and then you went to vet school [00:13:00] at uc, Davis. How, how did you get from one end to the other of the country?

Lily Chen: Taiwan is a very tropical island. That's how I grew up. Right? And being in upstate New York, it was beautiful with the seasons, but gosh, the winters were. So rough. I, I knew senior before senior year in high school. I'm like, I, I need to get out to somewhere warmer.

So when I started applying for colleges, I got the uc application. So University California has one application where You can check off all the campuses and then just remember I checked off every single one of them and send it off and be like, I'm going to California. I did end up, yes, I did end up attending UCLA, so I was in Los Angeles and then went to uc, Davis for vet school and then came back to LA ever since.

So California's home. I, I think it's hard for me being a climate that doesn't have that much sun. [00:14:00] So I, I love being in California and that's kind of how I ended up with that move from New York to California.

Megan Sprinkle: well. Knowing a little bit about your journey, so right out of vet school, you became an associate veterinarian for, uh, A VCA hospital, and so what was it like going from vet school student to actually practicing?

Lily Chen: Yeah, so I actually was at a internship after vet school and it was a VCA, it was VCA West LA, 

Lily Chen: so really big hospital, really big specialty hospital, and I would not want to repeat that year. However, I am really, really grateful. For that year. I think it set me up for the pace and also being able to think on my feet and really trained me for communication with [00:15:00] clients because West LA is, has the kind of clientele that really demanded a lot from you, right? And first year out being in that situation where you're taking in, like the walk-ins, the emergency, the overnights, the surgeries, you had to learn really, really quick. So I'm really grateful That was my first year because it, did make the subsequent years when I did get to get into my GP practices, I felt I was prepared for.

 So by the time I made it to my first job out of internship, it was also a really busy hospital, and my colleagues were very experienced. So in that hospital there were, at that time, I, I would've been the fourth doctor. There were three doctors there already, and they've been there a long time. And I would watch them work and how they work up their cases, [00:16:00] how they do their charts, how they talk to clients, and I learned a lot in that process and being able to kind of keep up with that pace.

I remember there are days where you would be fully booked for appointments. I believe it was every 20 minutes back then. And I would have emergencies rolling and there would be CPR on one table and a his stroke on another, plus keeping up with appointments. And that was the pace that I was in for, I was in the hospital for seven years before I moved on.

So looking back, I, I can see why that's not really sustainable for any doctors. But I think it did build a very strong foundation and appreciation for many people doing the kind of work that involves urgent care, emergencies, walk-ins, all of that. But I think those years also showed [00:17:00] me that it isn't really a great environment for the owners or the doctors or.

The veterinary professional, the staff, anybody, 'cause everyone usually in that situation's, highly stressed, highly emotional. And I learn later on in my career now. I feel that there is a different path because a lot of the medicine I was practicing was very reactive, right? People waited until the animals are sick and then they come rolling in, and now everyone is stressed.

And now there is a lot of time constraints on we have to do something quickly to stabilize the animal, to get them feeling better, and then talking to the owners sometimes about those very difficult subjects of what if your animal is diagnosed with something really terminal? What do we do? Or if they need surgery right away, or emergency treatments that cost a lot of money and it's [00:18:00] not something they can afford, how to navigate those situations.

And I feel that even though I learned a lot from that experience, some of the most important thing that it taught me now is being able to maybe design a system where you are not. Doing that all the time. I certainly think that there are always going to be emergencies and accidents, but I also saw that some of the things, a lot of the things I was seeing, we may have a better way to prevent them if we are a bit more proactive.

So it's very interesting. The kind of the trajectory of my journey is, was internship. It was so, you know, specialty, emergency, all the most complicated, the most sick cases to a busy GP where you get everything. And now [00:19:00] to really an integrative practice with a pretty heavy, holistic and preventive focus and how different that is.

So I often look back and think on that as well. And I think I, I needed to have all parts of the journey and I still don't know what the next chapter looks like. Right. 

Megan Sprinkle: You commented that it was within a couple of years of practicing, where you saw cases that weren't getting better and you back to the, 7-year-old who was like. Does it have to be this way? There has to be another way that you look, you're like, there has to be other options.

Do you mind backing up just a little bit more and going through those moments of, and maybe it was a particular case, but like seeing these cases where it made you think there has to be other options and you started exploring that.

Lily Chen: Yeah, the first case that broke me was a couple years into [00:20:00] my. Career as a vet. I'd been seeing this dog named Lucy. She was a black lab and I loved her. She just, she was one of those dogs that was happy to see everybody just had so much love and you just, you know, those dogs that walks in, you just wanna give them a hug and they wanna give you a hug.

And it's like a whole body love and. So I, I was seeing her for a couple years on and off, and when she got older, she started having arthritis and I put her on pain medications and she was better for a little while, but she continued to deteriorate and one day mom came in with her and basically we sat and had

that quality of life discussion because Lucy really couldn't get up anymore. She was painful. Medication [00:21:00] wasn't helping a whole lot, plus she was having side effects from that already. So you couldn't really just add more drugs like I think her liver values were starting to get high, things like that.

So I really felt that my hands were tied and also, yes, she was in pain and within the tools that were available to me at that time, I didn't have anything else that could really improve her quality of life. So we did make the decision together to let her go. I remember I was crying during that appointment and it affected me for a really long time because I felt she had more to her life than, you know, compromising from arthritis.

And that was the case that made me determine that I had to look into other options, that it wasn't going to be just because I ran out the medications to give her. [00:22:00] That I had to use an isop pet, especially for arthritis. So I would say arthritis was the case that got me started interested in looking at things outside of the conventional toolbox that I've been given, and acupuncture was the first thing

that I learned, and I was pretty skeptical in the beginning, even though I grew up in a culture that, you know, is where the Chinese medicine came from. My dad was an orthopedic surgeon, so I grew up in a very western minded family, and that was me my whole life. Like we would. You know, we, we would kind of hear about Chinese medicine every now and then, and sometimes I take some Chinese medicine, but nothing, nothing.

That was like a main part of my life. So I remember that, Hey, what else is available? And I have heard some stuff about acupuncture. There was another doctor in my practice at that time that did that for [00:23:00] her patients. And I did see some good results and. So I wandered, right? And I just wandered. So I am like, Hey, you know, I talked to my job at the time and said, Hey, I am interested in this training, and really grateful they actually pay for that education.

 got my certification and I just started putting needles into everybody. Literally every case I walked in, the first case though, is that dog that couldn't get up for weeks from arthritis. And I told mom like, Hey, we don't have anything to lose. Could I do an acupuncture session and let's just see.

I did a session and 10 minutes later she got up and she walked out of the clinic and mom said, oh my God, like she's not been able to get up for a few weeks now. I thought, okay, even if I didn't completely understand the science [00:24:00] behind it, because this is 15 years ago, and I think at that time it was still kind of maybe crackery to do something like acupuncture, like, hey, it has no side effects, and why not? So, and that opened up the door for me. Doing more of those modalities. And from there I started doing more training in herbal therapy along with acupuncture, and started seeing those cases where medicine didn't work or couldn't work, or for one or the other reasons, we couldn't just keep them on medicine forever.

That I felt that acupuncture and herbal medicine made a huge difference in many of these patients. So by the time, you know, I started realizing that and it wasn't, I, I would say that case that got up and walked away [00:25:00] was the first case that really taught me, yes, this can work. And I would say doing acupuncture and herbal therapy.

It does matter that practitioner's experience. So meaning that I'm probably much more successful now than I used to be 15 years ago. Uh, because there, there are certain things that I learned along the way. But probably since then, every, every year, I would learn a new modality, and I still do probably like two and three training classes now.

Every year I would get a new certification, look into a new modality, and I'm always amazed at how much is out there that we've not tapped into yet. And that case, I always talk about Lucy because I think without her. I may not have started looking outside the box. I'm really grateful for also those owners, those pet owners in the beginning, that let me do acupuncture, all of their pets, even though I was telling them, like I [00:26:00] just started, I just learning, are you okay if we do an acupuncture session?

I'm always grateful for all the people that said yes and grateful for those animals that you know, let me practice. And grateful for everything that they taught me. I think it's one of those things, once you see, you cannot unsee it. And once I started this journey and saw the animals getting better, I couldn't unlearn.

Right. And fast forward to today, where. The kind of medicine I practice is really root based rather than symptom based. They think there is this beautiful world where we can use our conventional medicine to help with symptoms, help 'em feel better, get us time. But if it's a chronic disease, we can lean into some of the integrative tools to help address what caused this in the first place.

And they think that. What's missing early in my career is I didn't [00:27:00] look at, I will take a disease and I would give a drug to make this disease better. But I didn't go back and look at, okay, what caused it in the first place? Was it the microbiome that had issues? Was it a deficiency in the body? Was it chronic inflammation?

Because without those things being addressed, the disease would progress no matter what. So I think that's one of the most important things that I learned early on and. Sorry, a really long answer to how I got started. 

Megan Sprinkle: Well, I, I think What made me so excited listening to your story when we first spoke and you started talking about that, now you really actually see, you know, in quotes, sick patients anymore because you focus so much on a more preventative strategy with pet owners who are more than open to talking about prevention.

I think this is a good time [00:28:00] because. One, pet owners absolutely love their pets. They want to do what's best for them. And I think we're kind of in a movement in human health too, where we're talking more about this, that it's an easy translation to go over to talking about it for pets too. So it, it's not like you're having to convince them from, you know, complete scratch.

Although I'm sure people are wondering like, how in the world do you convince. Pet parents to do some of these things in a preventative strategy than the, okay, I'm not gonna come into the vet until, they're at the very end. And now 

we feel like we don't have a lot to offer. So as you were starting to do more and more, learn more and more, and now you're at a point where most of your.

Patients are coming in healthy to do a more root cause, wellness based versus, bandaid [00:29:00] approach, the end. Like how did you learn to communicate and, get pet parents on board with this too?

Lily Chen: I, think that the conversations now are a lot easier because what you said that people are more aware of that there are symptom management and there is root, healing. Like if we don't find the cause, this will progress. And many of them have experienced that themselves, right? Whether it's they have a dog that's coming in for allergies, right?

And they are on this drug, they've been on this drug for years, and they start to question, Hey, does my dog need to take this for the rest of his life? And. Sometimes they start to see side effects, and many of them that's had pets before have been in that cycle. So it's becoming a little bit easier for that conversation of me saying, Hey, I know [00:30:00] that especially if they're young, they're going to be able to handle being on some chronic medications, but we really need to step back and think about what else could happen to the body? Because some of the most serious issues later on in life are cancer being one of the, most important things is rooted in inflammation and immune dysfunction. And most of the diseases that we see early on in life are also rooted in inflammation, immune issues.

So it's easy to draw that parallel for pet parents and say, Hey, we can manage this, but if the underlying issue isn't resolved, there will likely be other things that's gonna come up in the future. So why don't we invest some of our time and resources to see what we can prevent so that we are saving ourselves as much heartache as possible down [00:31:00] the road. And I, I think that really resonate when we have the time in the bandwidth to sit down and also to find out from them what are the most important things for them. And I think the most important thing I learned is that I could never do this in a 20 minute appointment anymore.

Right? So. Most of the time it is at least an hour conversation in the beginning to figure out when they come in for appointments to figure out for this family, what do they care about, what's their lifestyle, what do they want? And then talk about what are some of the strategies preventatively that we can implement.

And I, I would say that I also switched the way I practice as well Earlier in my career, it was very one sided that pets would come in, they would be dealing with this issue, and I would already [00:32:00] have recommendation treatment plans for, in my minds like it's A, B, C, right? But these days I, I go into every appointment pretty open minded and have a conversation first about them and why are they here?

What are they looking for? And also what can they realistically do, and then being able to talk to 'em about options. Many of them would come with ideas already. I think we live in an age where information is very accessible. So I would say my clients these days, because they are more integrated minded, many of them already come with what they want to work on and what are the things that are important to them. So it's easy to look at things from that angle and be a partner rather than telling them what to do. And I think that's the most important mind shift for me, is instead of coming in as I'm [00:33:00] the doctor, I'm the expert, I'm gonna tell you what to do.

I'm working very collaboratively with the family in front of me and say, what are the most important things to you right now? What can I offer and what do you think of these treatment modalities or these testing and, and just go over why we do them, and. What information we can gain. So I would say a lot of, them now, if they're coming in for preventive, we're looking at the microbiome.

I'm looking at vitamins, minerals. I'm looking at toxins because that actually surprisingly, has been one of the most important things that's come up a lot is toxic buildup. And I learned nothing about that in vet school. Right? But I've also learned that when I start to get the body healthy, whether it's addressing the microbiome or helping them with deficiencies or detoxing [00:34:00] or helping the immune system reset that a lot of the symptoms or the diseases are dealing with, they just start to disappear on their own, and that's always a really, really cool thing to see.

So now I can lean on those experience and make those conversations easier too, because I can tell them stories about pets that, you know, we found different things and really by healing the body from a root base lens that they just get better. And I lean into a lot of our cancer patients too.

We do see a lot of cancer patients, and I, I can say with confidence that being able to integrate. Holistic modalities along with conventional modalities. I would say most of them beat their prognosis by a lot, and that's been a very [00:35:00] important, change of perception for myself, my team, and also people that we talk with.

And actually oncologists in our community as well, because now we start to get referrals. I think in the beginning they are also very skeptical, which I understand, but always want to work alongside. I, tell our families that it's a veterinary care team. I actually encourage everybody, like all of our clients here, to have.

Doctors like you should have a conventional doctor, you should have specialists. You should know where your emergency hospital is because not one doctor can do all the things all the time. So I, I tell all my clients, you should have a veterinary care team. And I try to work within that mindset as well is a lot of times we are their kind of their home base to put all this information together so they're not lost.

But at the same time, we're supporting everyone else with their work. So I, [00:36:00] I come back to our cancer patients because those are the patients that are often given sometimes very grave prognosis and it's amazing to be able to see them live way, way past their prognosis and having a great quality of life.

So that's been a very important part of my work.

Megan Sprinkle: vet school is a while for me too, but I, kind of feel like, and I think human medicine does this too, they give you the worst case scenario in those. if you look at the research, you know, dogs with this type of cancer have two weeks to two years, and so they give two, you know, I, I'm exaggerating, but sometimes when you maybe practice with that kind of mindset, , you know, give the worst case scenario, and it, it's just a very different perspective and you come across as, Not being dishonest, but at least offering options. [00:37:00] And you told me that you much more enjoy what you do today. Focusing more on preventative and being able to have options than you did, years ago. And so, you know, just to of emphasize how your career can evolve and change and, and you're at a, place, where you're really appreciating what you get to do every single day.

I think it is really where, I wanna emphasize this point is leaning into what you're seeing is fulfilling and working.

Lily Chen: Yeah, absolutely. I, like everyone's veterinary journey is a little different, right? 

I think, I, I think I always say this is that I, I'm always curious, right? What will happen in a year, because most often when I look back from a year ago, I'm doing something now that I [00:38:00] never thought I would be doing, like even just a year ago.

And that's a really cool thing about this career is that there's so much that's possible right in the veterinary field and so much that can help an animal heal. And I, I get so excited by that possibility and every day just being able to wake up and say, I wonder what I'm gonna learn. Right? And being able to look back, usually at the year end to that year and say, wow, I'm doing, these are the things that I did that I didn't even know was going to come up on my radar.

So I. I dunno, Megan, I I'm sure you feel the same way, is that, I think when you were saying that people usually give the worst case scenario. I lived that period in my career as well, and I think it's very fear based, [00:39:00] right? It's about. That. Okay. You don't want to give people false hope.

You don't want to over promise. When you come up with a very scary diagnosis that you don't wanna tell them their animal's gonna be fine, because you know, sometimes you're not going to be, but you do know that you're going to try your best. And I think one of the most important thing that I learned was that to not be so scared of something that's not here at this moment.

I think we can be realistic, but we can also just.

be in the present, meaning not a lot of people have anticipatory grief already because if you give them a diagnosis, they're already thinking about how their animals might suffer and pass away. Right? [00:40:00] And I always have to remind them and myself. It's like, but look. Look at your pet today.

And many of them don't know they have this diagnosis, they're not feeling terrible today. And I've had more animals thriving with cancer than animals that are, you know, going through really, really aggressive treatments and having side effects and feeling sick and still compromise. I, I think of it at the point in my journey where there's not one right answer, there's not one protocol.

For every disease and every situation and every family. But looking at that pet and say, what? What is the most important thing? And when you ask people, they always say, we just don't want our animals to suffer. And based on that, I think we gotta make different decisions sometimes. It isn't always going to be about getting the most aggressive protocols so you [00:41:00] can try to cure this disease, because many of those animals don't do well on those protocols.

So I think it's important to have that conversation and say, is it possible that they're given the best quality of life? And then one day they're going to tell us that, you know, their body isn't gonna be able to do this anymore. But I'm not going to decide for them if it's gonna be two weeks, two months, right?

Like, that's not my job. My job is to make sure that every day this animal is alive, that they have the best life possible and what can we do to make sure that happens? So I think it's a very different mindset these days. And that it makes those conversations, I think a little easier because I also think that people need to hear, and they need the reminder that just because an animal has a [00:42:00] diagnosis, it does not mean that they are just that diagnosis.

I think it's very important that we get out of the mindset that they are. The diagnosis because you, as you know, like you cannot lymphoma in some pets. Yes, they may be really sick and they may die within two weeks, but there are pets that are living 2, 3, 4 years beyond that diagnosis as well.

So

Megan Sprinkle: I think just even having that more open mindset, the present mindset, and just listening to how, know, the reason why you're like, oh, you know, I can only imagine in a year what's gonna be, what's gonna happen, where I'm gonna be is because you also have all of that mindset plus that growth mindset where you're constantly learning.

And so, I know we don't have , a lot of time, but I, I do wanna make sure that we talk a little bit about, The course that you have around the [00:43:00] microbiome and fecal transplants. 'cause it's not new, but I know a lot of people don't know much about the fecal transplant and what you're teaching.

So, in five minutes, uh, can you, very briefly share a little bit of how you, discovered. The microbiome and, really started to perfect a particular type of, protocol that now you're also teaching other veterinarians.

Lily Chen: Yeah, it started because I had a German Shepherd who was having diarrhea in the house multiple times a day 

Megan Sprinkle: was this your personal dog or a patient? 

Lily Chen: No, no, I had a patient had a really big, like 130 pound German shepherd that was having diarrhea in the house, for weeks and weeks and weeks on. And, you can imagine that is not good quality of life for the people and the pet.

But you know, he, he was Okay.

like he was having diarrhea, but. he was doing better than mom who had to clean up the diarrhea every day. And [00:44:00] you know, on and off we have all these drugs to try, right? You cycles, you like metronidazole, and then you're doing Tylosin and then you're doing ultrasound and it's like, okay, intestines looking inflamed.

Let's might be IBD, let's try some steroids and da da, da. And they would help for a little while and then it wouldn't. Right. And that was the first case that I, that was, I don't know, like what, eight years ago. And I had heard about fecal transplant and because everything I was, wasn't working for this dog's diarrhea.

So I'm like, so we, we just, mom and I talked and she's like, I'm on board, let's try it. And after one session, one session, it was. Cured to be safe. I did another one down the road just so that it doesn't come back. Um. But back then the protocol was that you have to put them under anesthesia. It was this 30 minute protocol and you rotate them like [00:45:00] every 10 minutes.

Like the dog's not doing anything under anesthesia except being rotated and holding that position for 10 minutes. The idea being that you want to have the material one, not have the dog be resistant, and pushing it out into having some time, I think to coat And because I had such a good response, I wanted to try again, but I, I felt that people were most resistant to the idea of the animal undergoing anesthesia.

So I started trying sedation, which, and I try to try like different volumes because too large of a volume, the colon just can't really hold in most of it. So the early days was a giant mess, like poop everywhere, even with sedation. And there are actually many pets that. Probably weren't good candidates for sedation either.

So, and that, that's when I, I think I spent a good five or six years figuring out like, how can I use this therapy, and I had started diving into research and it's amazing. [00:46:00] I, I am sure everyone by now knows how important a microbiome is and how amazing it is if we can normalize and optimize the microbiome.

So we have so many tools now we can do testing and based on the testing, then we can guide them through different, like nutritional strategies, supplements, all of these things, and doing fecal transplants, whether it's oral or rectal. So many different options. And I eventually figured out my own method of being able to take a pet completely awake, no special prep, and infuse a volume that works for that pet, for their comfort for them retaining the material and going home and not have any accidents. And so I, I developed protocol called bio balance, and that's really the thing I'm putting out in the world because of, I, I, I can, we can probably sit here and talk for days about all the miraculous cases that come in, not just diarrhea [00:47:00] cases anymore.

Right. I, a lot of the things were, things I was taught were not curable. Right. I would say allergies, the big one on my mind. I was taught early on in my career, like, you cannot cure allergies because it's a immune system issues and you can manage it. You can suppress the symptoms, but you cannot cure it. I can tell you that's not true.

We've cured a lot of pets with allergy issues and, and to me that was a game changer because it really revolutionized the way that I saw cases and from there. You know, we had a lot of chronic issues. anything ranging from immune-mediated diseases to GI issues, to heart disease, to kidney disease, to, you know, liver issues and of course cancer cases that I find that by just getting the microbiome better and a lot of times it is two fecal transplant because it is one of the fastest ways to be able to [00:48:00] introduce good microbiome.

That these animals are given like a complete new life, and I just want that to be in the hands of more practitioners. And that's the whole idea behind developing a course is that I think many people know how important the microbiome is, but most don't know that there is a way to do this therapy with minimal trauma.

Actually no trauma really, but. You know, it does, it does require, I tell people it's kind of like getting a temperature, so like a rectal thermometer. So minimal trauma, I guess. Um, really quick, like usually each visit's like less than 10 minutes, we can finish like a fecal transplant procedure. And really, really amazing outcomes.

Really happy clients and I, I feel that for these animals that's been on chronic medications that's been able to get off of it. I've [00:49:00] seen too many to just keep it in my hands. So that's a heart of putting out the courses to have more veterinary professionals be able to at least have a starting point.

Like they don't have to adapt my protocol, but they want to offer it as a way that's been successful in my hands. And then they can adapt it to their own practices, their hands, and see what works for them. Right. I finished my first class earlier this year and , it's really incredible to hear their feedback and the lives that they're changing and I think that gave me a lot of confidence in continually to put this out in the world to see, who else might be the right one to kind of adopt this and just at least learn a little bit more so that it's more available. I just think it's really important. 

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. Well, and this is a great example of the people that when they [00:50:00] heard that you do one hour appointments and they're sitting in a hospital that only allows 15 to 20 minutes. This is a great example of something that you can learn and start to implement even and, and quick appointment times so that as you continue to learn and if you're like, well, what do I do in 15 minutes? And 

Lily Chen: Yeah. 

Megan Sprinkle: these are things that you can start to learn and implement. And so , I'm so glad to, to see you do these things and share them.

And I always love to end on a final gratitude question. What is something you're very grateful for right now?

Lily Chen: Ah, I, I'm really grateful for health. I'm really grateful for, honestly, there are many things in life now?

That I feel that I have to have. Um, you know, some of the things in my younger self that I would choose are more materialistic. And these days just being able to get a good [00:51:00] night's sleep, wake up healthy, feeling good.

really, I was on vacation for two weeks and then, you know, last night, Sunday night, I was really energized to come back to work. I was really looking forward and I wrote in my journal that, gosh, what, what a switch, right? Because I, I think there have been periods in my life where I wouldn't have that on Sunday night.

I would dread having to come back and to a very busy week. And I'm, I'm really grateful to have the energy and the health to do it. And, and I, when I say health, I mean physical and mental. I think that's important, so I'm gonna be really grateful for that.

A seven-year-old girl in Taiwan asked whether it had to feel this way. Decades later, Dr. Lily Chin is living proof that when we stay curious, keep learning, and commit to the [00:52:00] kind of medicine that lights us up, the answer is that it can feel even better than we imagined. If this conversation left you thinking about what it would feel like to wake up and genuinely be excited for the week ahead, I hope you'll hold on to that feeling and ask yourself what it would take to get there.

If you're curious about integrative medicine or fecal microbiome transplants or fecal transplants. If you're curious about integrative medicine or fecal transplants in veterinary medicine, links to connect with Dr. Lily and learn more are in the show notes. For a full summary of the key takeaways from today and to know how to apply it to you specifically, head over to the Sprinkle of Wisdom sub stack for the Podcast Club guide.

If you appreciate the podcast, please subscribe and share it with someone in your life who needs a reminder that veterinary medicine can feel this amazing. Until next time, keep reimagining what's possible in [00:53:00] veterinary life.