Shaping the Future of Pet Health from Clinics to Startups (Dr. Natalie Marks)

Veterinary innovation, startups, and the future of pet health — Dr. Natalie Marks joins Vet Life Reimagined live at AVMA Podcast Day, July 12 in Anaheim. Here's your preview before we take the stage.

Dr. Natalie Marks has spent over twenty years building one of the most diverse careers in veterinary medicine — associate veterinarian, medical director, co-owner of the largest small animal practice in Chicago, mentor, entrepreneur, and angel investor. Today, she serves as CEO of VANE, the Veterinary Angel Network of Entrepreneurs, connecting veterinary professionals with the startups and innovation shaping the profession's future.

Resources

• Video episode on YouTube
• Free Podcast club episode guide on Substack
• Veterinary Angel Network for Entrepreneurs (VANE)
• AVMA Convention in Anaheim - Inaugural Podcast Day

Transcript

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Natalie Marks: [00:00:00] when I finally heard my kids, without being prompted or being paid, said that they were proud that their mommy did what she did, and they're proud of watching my successes and what I'm achieving, it kind of was one of those things where I'm like, "Okay, I guess I've made it. 

Megan Sprinkle: We are going live at AVMA, and this episode is the perfect introduction to that conversation we're about to have on the stage. On Sunday, July 12th in Anaheim, I will be recording a live episode of Vet Life Reimagined at the AVMA's very first podcast day, and my guest on that stage is the same incredible person you're about to hear from today.

Dr. Natalie Marks and I will be talking about shaping the future of pet health through startups and innovation live at 2:30 PM Pacific Time. If you're going to be at AVMA, I would love to see you there. So consider this episode your [00:01:00] backstage pass, A chance to get to know Dr.

Natalie before we take that conversation to a whole new level in front of a live audience. This episode is a re-release of my conversation with Dr. Natalie from back in March of 2024, and it is just as relevant today. Dr. Natalie Marks has spent over 20 years building one of the most diverse and fascinating careers in veterinary medicine.

She has been an associate veterinarian, medical director, and co-owner of the largest small animal practice in Chicago. She has mentored, written, consulted, and invested, and since this episode last aired, she is now the CEO of VANE, the Veterinary Angel Network of Entrepreneurs, where she brings her clinical expertise and entrepreneurial instincts together to drive veterinary innovation, support professionals, and empower pet parents through education and advocacy.

She serves as an advisor for innovative businesses leading the [00:02:00] future of veterinary medicine in many different ways, from AI to early diagnostics and beyond. In this conversation, Natalie and I talk about her winding career path, what she has learned from over 20 years in clinical practice, the critical difference between general and clinical empathy, and how she has found her way into the startup and angel investing world.

It is a rich, honest, and genuinely inspiring conversation. And on July 12th, we'll continue it live at AVMA. So again, please say hello if you're attending. But now let's get into this amazing conversation with Dr. Natalie Marks When did 

you first know that you wanted to get into veterinary medicine? 

Natalie Marks: You know, I'm probably that cliche, "I didn't wanna be anything else," because my earliest memory of being around animals was when I was probably maybe five or six, but my [00:03:00] best friend growing up had a ranch with a bunch of Haflinger and Belgian horses, and I was there every day after school and working alongside the harrier and helping when the veterinarian would come, and driving the horses, and trail riding, and everything that kind of hobby equines do.

I felt so at home there. I didn't think there was anything else that I even would remotely consider. I think for a small period of time, marine biology, maybe a, a glimmer of human medicine, and then I said, "Um, no." But I think it's always just been the veterinary space. I think the human-animal bond is truly transformative inside a person, right?

I think there... It changes you in a way that you can't imagine not having that. And I think for me, especially as a prac- when I was a practicing veterinarian full time, that's what drove me is being [00:04:00] able to see that strengthen and to hear pet parents come in and talk about what their pet means to them, whatever that pet is, and how it enhances their life, and that was, for me, just absolutely beautiful.

And so even though I started in the equine space and did a little bit of that sort of around graduation, most of my work has been in companion. But I think you can find a bond with just about any creature out there, and no one really understands. And that's the other thing of, you know, being that uniqueness is that my bond with my pets is different than your bond with your pets, and everybody else's, and it's, it's the...

one of the few things in the world that is, is truly unique, and you'll have those in- inherent memories and interactions that no one can take So thankfully, I, I think I, oh, I, I got that with those horses and I just realized that there's nothing else that I wanna do. 

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. And so it looked like you were an Illinois [00:05:00] lifer, so is that correct?

Natalie Marks: Yeah. 

Megan Sprinkle: Undergrad, masters- Yes ... and vet school. 

Natalie Marks: Everything. You know, if I had to do it over again, I think I would've been a little bit more aggressive looking at scholarship opportunities and other ways that maybe I could have explored. I, not to say I didn't enjoy my experience. I truly did. But I stayed in state out of guidance that back then, you know, many, many years ago, "You're never gonna get into an out-of-state school.

You, if you're in, in the state that has a school, that's where you go." And when I was a, an undergraduate at Illinois, that's, they're saying, you know, "You gotta just go there and get your spot." And so I did stay and obviously made lots of great friends and had a wonderful experience and education, lots of cool projects and research.

I did have the opportunity to do an undergraduate fellowship program for a summer at Cornell, which is a research program for veterinary students from around the globe. So actually there were only four [00:06:00] or five US students, but students from Europe and Asia and Australia, and we all lived together in a frat house on campus, which was a really interesting experience for the summer.

But everyone had a research project with a Cornell faculty member, and that was really awesome. So I, I did have that in a cool experience. I would have loved to have gone to Cornell. It was a- Yeah ... really cool campus. But yeah, I think for a s- for anybody out there that is listening that is undergraduate thinking they need to stay in state, I think with the advent of all of these new schools coming up, and certainly if you are truly focused and really say, "I, I definitely know that I want to be in bovine," or, "I really want to do research," um, keep your options open.

There's a lot of different opportunities now for that to be funded. I didn't have a independently wealthy family that could help me just pick and choose a school and just go. I was very much dependent on my loans. [00:07:00] But I think that there's definitely a, a way to be a little more creative if I had to do it over, and just have a different experience, uh, rather than staying in my corn fields for eight years.

Megan Sprinkle: I completely echo that. That's actually a big part of this podcast i- is staying open-minded and, and just trying to see what different options are out there. So you started with, uh, the love of horses. Mm-hmm. And so what was your going through vet school like? Did you kinda change what you thought you might do during vet school, or what was that as you were trying to discover, "What am I gonna do after vet school?"

Natalie Marks: Yeah. Um, so I had two- Kind of formative moments, I think, in veterinary school that took me away from equine into companion, even though at heart I still get, get me on a horse farm and I'm happy. I stay there forever. But they really both centered around being, again, and this is 24 years [00:08:00] ago, so it was centered around being a small woman in a pretty physically demanding field with physically demanding hours and not a lot of women with families at that time.

So as I was going through, and I'm on foal watch, and I'm on the equine surgery team and the equine anesthesia team, and I'm doing 23-hour days sometimes or staying overnight and sleeping on the surgical beds waiting for a colic to come in at 4:00 in the morning, I started talking to a lot of the veterinarians that we would have coming in, the referring veterinarians, and they were miserable, to be honest.

You know, they, they didn't have a lot of good things to say. They felt kind of, well, this is life. It was sort of like, "Don't expect to have kids. Don't expect to have vacations. Don't expect to have time off." A lot of them have injuries. A lot of them were, I don't think, compensated at the time the way that they probably should have been.[00:09:00] 

I remember coming home one night and just feeling kind of like, "Why am I doing this?" It didn't give me a lot of hope. Now granted, again, it was a different, a different decade, but it... At the time it didn't inspire me that this was the life that I necessarily wanted. I knew I wanted to have a family at some point, and it didn't seem possible.

So I, I sort of started creeping a little bit and spilling over into the companion. I always, of course, have grew up with dogs and cats and, you know, obviously love them. Started taking more of those electives, but then sort of the life-changing moment of switching me to companion was when we were loading a foal onto a trailer on my ambulatory rotation, and one of my classmates was loading the foal.

And as you know, when you work with foals, you can't turn away, but she did, and that foal kicked, and in the absolute perfect trajectory kicked her in the face. [00:10:00] Mm. Broke her cheek, basically popped out her eye, just kind of shattered that side of her face in, right in front of all of us. And that moment was just not only incredibly traumatic and tr- and painful, and you know, myriad of emotions, but for some reason in that moment my light went out and I said, "I just don't think that's me.

I, I don't think that I want to be necessarily in a profession every day with all of these sort of rumblings I've already heard-" Where I may not be able to have a family or may not be able to see my family, and then to know that in a split second it could all be done. I could be on disability, I could lose my vision, I could, you know, have chronic back injuries.

There's so many things that could have happened and I said, "I, I think this isn't for me. I think I'm gonna have a hobby of loving equine. I'm gonna trail [00:11:00] ride, I'm gonna have my friends, I'm gonna visit the farms, but I don't think that this is how I'm gonna choose to spend my veterinary career." And to be honest, I haven't looked back on that.

I definitely chose the right career journey for me at the beginning, and my career is, as you know, has been a very windy, fun road with lots of different turns. But I know that in that moment I made the right decision for me. Yeah. So, uh, it changed and, and then it was companion from that point forward.

Megan Sprinkle: Well, speaking of windy roads, that's what I wanna get to. So you leave veterinary school. You're gonna be a small animal practitioner. You do go out into practice. 

Natalie Marks: Yeah, so I did- Yeah ... a couple things. So a- as I've said, I wanted to get out the corn fields. So when I first graduated I actually took a job in Atlanta with an Illinois alum and worked there for five years.

He had three practices. I had a phenomenal mentor, [00:12:00] life-changing mentor in my practice, Dr. Allyson Wanski. She gave me the best start, I have to say. I can't thank her enough for the time and energy and compassion and patience and guidance, like the perfect style of guidance of letting me learn but not letting me necessarily completely fail.

She was just fantastic. And so I, I know for a fact that when I owned my practice and people would start as their first job, I wanted nothing more than to be Ally Wanski and be that mentor because it, it truly gives you the self-confidence to, uh, form rational thoughts, to make the best habits, to Understand, we've talked about what, you know, what empathy means and how powerful empathy can be in this profession, and also just how to be a good human in this profession.

So I was [00:13:00] very lucky to have that. I knew as a goal that I wanted to own, and after five years, I knew that wouldn't be possible in the practices I was in. So I actually moved back to Chicago and started working at Blum Animal Hospital under my, um, vet school mentor, Dr. Shelley Rubin, and then eventually with my business partners, we bought Blum and owned that for a while.

So that was the largest practice here in Chicago. 

Megan Sprinkle: So what was some of your favorite parts of working in a very large hospital, being a practice owner? Uh, what were some of your favorite parts and what were some of your biggest learnings? 

Natalie Marks: Oh, lots of favorite parts. It's definitely, if not the highlight, one of the top highlights of my career thus far.

I think when you have the ability to own, or even if you're not financially owning, if you are a major decision maker in a hospital or a hospital group There's something, I think, [00:14:00] incredibly fulfilling about being able to shape the course of medicine, to shape how the client service is, to shape actually the careers and empower the people who you're with and to see them grow.

I think as a leader, the best thing about being a leader is when you have the light bulb moment that you're watching for someone else, right? When you actually, you see someone succeed on their first day f- you know, and, and they, they're all of a sudden giddy and they can't believe it, and you know that you've had a small role in helping them achieve their goal.

And that's something that, as a practice owner, we could do every day. Tons of solution-seeking, being resourceful and creative, helping build. Oh, as entrepreneurs, right? There's nothing better than the build. And when you hit your goals and reach your dreams, you know, that was a lot of being a practice owner.

Now, there were [00:15:00] certainly, as you said, a lot, a lot of learnings along the way. I mean, I think there were three big ones for me that I've tried to carry through. The first was, I was an associate there before I was an owner, so that's a hard transition when you're joking around with the team on a Friday, and all of a sudden Monday you're boss, right?

So that's, that's hard. And what I didn't do well at the beginning was I had what I've written about, which are silent expectations. So I was very afraid of being, if I can just say, right, the, the bitch boss, right? Of being that one that has, you know, "This is where we're gonna be, and everybody has to live up to my expectations, and I'm gonna throw those out there, and if you don't get them, you know, I'm gonna be so disappointed."

So I just stayed quiet and sort of, you know, passively learned along the way, which I think is important. I mean, when you step into a new role, you definitely need to [00:16:00] observe and listen and understand all perspectives and all the people around you. But I wasn't direct and clear with expectations on some of the projects and goals that we had at the beginning.

And what that led to was two things. One It often led me to disappointment because I would have said in myself, "Oh, I have this goal," let's say, of being Fear Free certified as a hospital, okay? So I have all these... And we had a committee, and everybody had these different goals, and I had this goal, "We're gonna reach it in blank months."

Well, when we didn't reach it in blank months, I got very disappointed, even though a lot of that was my fault for not being direct and saying, "Our goal is this, and let's be accountable for our roles, and this is what I see, but I wanna get your feedback of what you see, and maybe what I think's gonna happen is not possible 'cause I don't know what you're seeing on your role."

And I didn't do a great job of that. So there was a lot of miscommunication, I think, at the beginning. And I think [00:17:00] being very clear and direct and asking for feedback is so critical in leadership roles, especially in ownership. I think the second thing that I had as a learning is we are multitaskers as practice owners.

Well, I think all veterinarians are pr- are multitaskers, but practice owners especially are multitaskers, and you can't be because something's gonna drop. I think we often take on, "Well, I can handle HR," and "I'm gonna do workman's comp," and "I got this client that's mad," and "Oh, this surgery needs me," and "Somebody needs to talk to me about a complaint with another teammate," and b- and you're trying to handle it all.

But delegation is imperative, not just for your sanity, but also because we don't do everything well. I came to learn that there were certain things about HR that were not my strong suit, and that's why we have and surround ourselves with people who have skillsets where it is their strong suit. So delegation, delegation, delegation.[00:18:00] 

And then I think the third that I'm still working on actively, and I think most of us as veterinarians are, is boundaries. I was the, the veterinarian, and I think if you asked any of my clients, they would tell me 'cause I still get emails , who would be up till 2:00 in the morning emailing clients and taking texts and running out of a dinner on a weekend to help somebo- you know?

And I, I don't regret that. Um, I don't regret it from my... What I knew that I was as a clinically practicing veterinarian and owner. But I do regret some of that because I missed out a lot on my early years with my kids. And so now looking back, of course hindsight's 20/20, I think that there is a very healthy boundary that every practice owner can make that allows them to still give what they need to and want to to their practice, which is their other family and their other baby, but to also understand that [00:19:00] There's only so much you can give when you're not refilling yourself.

And I didn't refill myself well. So I think that we w- when we move forward into new roles and new challenges, I try to think about having very clear expectations of what's ahead, who's a- who's responsible, how are we keeping each other accountable, and this is what I see, but I need to know what you see so that it's successful.

I think, and aga- and again, having these boundaries and also just really understanding that we all have skill sets, we all have strong suits, but it's okay and actually takes a lot of bravery and strength to admit a weakness and to ask for help so that you can be successful. 

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. Tying all that together, you even talked about being a good human being.

It's very hard to be a good human being when you are tired and- Yeah ... you're stressed, and when you're multitasking and you're not delegating. That just adds on to what's the natural things of life and work that kind of- Right ... come into it. And [00:20:00] so if you can't be a good human being, you're not gonna be able to give what you want, and I, and I've seen that too.

That's when I can really tell that I, I'm w- multitasking far too much is when, one, I start to not like who I am showing up, but also I get very frustrated because I am not able to give my all because I'm so spread out and I'm so tired. I'm just echoing what you're saying, is that I definitely see that as well.

It's really important to be able to kind of assess where you are and, and be willing to speak up and communicate about it. Very rarely are people just gonna go, "Well, that stinks," and just like they're not g- Right ... they're gonna help you. They're, the, they- Right ... they're probably like, "Oh yeah, I probably should do that too."

Natalie Marks: Yep. 

Megan Sprinkle: So. 

Natalie Marks: And I, and I think that's... I've, I've written about this and, and I, I think just sort of like you s- we, we were talking before, there is a significant focus on us internally, right? Veterinary [00:21:00] community, veterinary practices, work culture, compassion fatigue, burnout, burden transfer, uh, all of the above, right?

But there's been not as much focus on the client-veterinary relationship And when you are struggling with compassion fatigue, when you are unfortunately at a place of burnout, when you are tired, overstressed, under-fulfilled, you know, running on fumes, there is no way that you can truly be empathetic with clients because y- y- you don't have it for yourself, so you can't give to others.

And we also don't, as a profession, do a great job of having clinical empathy. And there's a very big difference between the general empathy that we feel when we know someone is going through something that we have personally experienced and can relate to their feelings and their journey and [00:22:00] their doubts and worries about moving forward.

But clinical empathy is very different, and I think if more of us practiced clinical empathy, there would be less compassion fatigue, and we would have more positive interactions with our clients on a daily basis because I did not practice clinical empathy. I went all in with every client, letting them cry on my shoulder and, you know, hugging and letting them release the myriad of emotions that we know often come with a difficult diagnosis or euthanasia discussions or financial discussions, all of the things that bring up those challenges.

But clinical empathy allows us to separate our own personal views and to really say, "We understand and can empathize what it must feel like to be in the position this client is in," but the difference is [00:23:00] we are not, and don't have to be required, to agree with them. That's what happens. That, that's the trigger that puts us down that slippery slope is when someone comes in and says, you know, "I don't have the budget necessarily to move forward with these tests, and we know that if the tests were run and the treatment was given, that the pet would get better.

That's a very common situation where there... When there's lack of agreement there, we as veterinary teams get very emotionally distressed, right? The puppy that has a foreign body that we can easily fix that a client can't afford. You name it, we could list 20 different scenarios. What we can do in those situations without going down that really negative road of starting to get upset and then starting to project that onto the client, then our interactions are not neutral to positive or compassionate.

Instead, they get [00:24:00] defensive or disappointment starts to show. Our body language, right, is hard to fake. So those become very negative. But what we can do is we can say, "We understand that this can be a very difficult place to be in, and we've worked with other families who are in this place. How can we help you reach your goal?"

That doesn't mean that I agree necessarily with how that client is feeling. I didn't say that. But I can still project clinical empathy for how they must feel in that situation. I can put myself in their shoes and say, "Hmm, if I was in this place and I couldn't afford a surgery that could easily fix my pet, I bet I would ha- be having these same feelings."

Would I be making the same decision? Not necessarily. And I don't have to say that. I don't have to go that far and say, "I would be doing the same thing. I ca-" or, "I would never do this. How could you be doing this?" We just have to say we understand that this must be very challenging [00:25:00] for them to be going through, and acknowledge their feelings, but not go over that fence into a place where it starts to drive our own emotions.

And I think if we could just practice that more, we know that in human medicine, in the studies looking at clinical empathy, that that is a very successful tactic. And I say that as a tactic, not for it to sound robotic, but it's a skill. It is a skill to preserve longevity in this profession, not for us to be in shelter medicine for three years and just can't handle it anymore and, and leave completely.

Um, so I, I think that's... If we could tag on a fourth learning, I think the clinical empathy piece is huge. 

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. And, and with it being a skill means you usually have to practice it. Yeah. You have to do some things to be intentional about setting yourself up for that mindset. So there's nothing wrong with that.

It just means, again, you have to- Yeah ... think about it in advance, like, [00:26:00] "What can I do to help me think in this capacity?" And you just train yourself. And again, I, I'm not trying to make it necessarily simple, but set yourself up for success, practice it, give you a couple notes that, like, make you think, "Okay, yeah, empathy.

Ah, got it." Yeah. I have something that I think will be super helpful. And I, you know, as we were starting, I, I mentioned that I was really excited to see that you had a lot of interest in advocating for the pet owner perspective. So around, I think I was looking, around 2018, you, you got your certification in veterinary journalism.

You started a, a consultancy agency, I think called VetScoop, which was, that tagline was advocating for the pet owner. So do you mind walking me through what was that transition from practice owner, and then now you're starting to add on some other additional skills and, and get into a, kind of a new area?

Natalie Marks: Yeah. Well, you know, after [00:27:00] we decided to sell our practice, which was A very long, thoughtful process. It was certainly not hasty, and I still, you know, I, I think I still mourn it a little bit, being a practice owner. I m- I miss certain aspects of it significantly. But a big part of me, and I, I'm very, a, a very big proponent of this, is that when we become veterinarians, I think a lot of people feel, whether it's correct or, you know, sort of rumination, that if you're not clinically practicing What else can you do?

Uh, or if I'm not clinically practicing right now, I'm thought l- less than. And I think when I surveyed and worked with a lot of industry colleagues, that's how they initially thought. Oh, if you went to industry, it was sort of a l- a less than, than if you were clinically [00:28:00] practicing in a small animal hospital.

And I knew that I wanted to mentor, I wanted to advocate, I wanted to build, I wanted to write, uh, I had a lot more to say, and I wanted to work beyond the four walls of my hospital. And so as I talked to different mentors and different colleagues about how could I do that and not practice full-time, I found that there was a very large gap between industry and the front lines of veterinary hospitals.

And what I mean by that is, industry may wanna launch product A, right? And in a research lab, it sounds amazing. And from a financial sort of realm, there's high hopes. But they haven't thought about how would this be [00:29:00] placed in a workflow in an animal hospital? How would people price it? How would you communicate the value to a client authentically?

How would we market this to a pet parent in our hospitals, not from industry, in our hospitals? And there was nobody really doing that on a consistent basis. And as a person who had been an associate and a practice owner and also was doing a lot of teaching at the time, I thought, "This is something that I definitely can do."

And so I formed a consulting company, my own, as well as working with teams through VetScoop, which was more pet parent facing, but basically being that matchmaker of saying, "Okay, you have this product that's awesome and it works and it's safe, but this hospital is not understanding how you're marketing it, and they certainly don't know how to place this to be efficient and effective in their workflow and to make a difference medically, right?

And [00:30:00] financially." So I do a lot of work with industry consulting on that space, and I really enjoy it because it brings out a lot of the entrepreneur in me It allows me to still think as a practicing veterinarian, but also expand into marketing, pet-parent communication, which I'm so thankful for this shift that we're doing right now in our industry of shared decision-making, and not this white coat regurgitation of, you know, show up and throw up medicine, where a pet parent would just sit there and go, "Yes," and not do anything what we tell them.

But instead to have this collaborative exam room, which is what I did, where I sit at a table with my s- my Starbucks, you know, blonde vanilla latte, and my client sits with their coffee, and I am the medical advocate in the exam room, and the client is the medical advocate from home. [00:31:00] We both need to come together and bring what I see and I can do, what you as a pet parent can reasonably do from a compliance perspective.

If you travel every day, I'm not sending home three-times-a-day orals with you, right? I mean, those things are never really discussed. We know there are so many studies out there that show that over 70% of p- pet parents feel that they would actually do what we tell them to do, but almost 50% of them are never shown what we in- want them to do, meaning we don't demonstrate how to medicate.

We don't demonstrate transdermals or sub-Q fluids or parasite topical preventatives. We don't do that. We assume they know how to do it or they're just gonna look it up, and then we have lack of compliance. But there's so much more we can do from a shared decision-making perspective that is a much warmer and collaborative partnership between pet parents and allows us to [00:32:00] also protect ourselves, protect the longevity, stop this compassion fatigue by saying to ourselves, "This is not my pet."

This is not my pet in this exam room. This is Mrs. Jones' pet. My job in this exam room is to be this dog's advocate or cat's advocate for Mrs. Jones and to understand what is her goal and for me to help her reach her goal with her pet. I can do whatever I want with my pets. I can help reach my goals. That is where I get to have the freedom.

But in the exam room, it is not my pet. And I think so many of us, you know, me being included for many years, that's how we approach it. And it's not to say that it's wrong, it's human. And of course, we're probably the most empathetic profession out there. But that's what leads us down that slope to fatigue.

And if we can go in there, again, clinical empathy and having the shared decision-making approach and help them reach their goal, it's still incredibly rewarding, still fulfilling 'cause we see that bond strengthen. We see those pets healthy and happy. We see [00:33:00] clients feeling empowered to have an active role in the care of their pet in something they chose, not something we sort of guilted them into.

So advocacy has been a big part of that. But in my consulting role, I get to bring all of these to the table to groups that haven't heard this and are not from the animal health space, many of them. Yeah. So I think there's a big value there, and it's been really fun being part of a lot of different campaigns that have been very successful in changing how our industry views some of the ways we practice.

But also a big one that I was part of was for Merck for leptospirosis, and I continue to do that. I'm a h- it's probably my favorite disease to lecture on. Coming from Chicago, where we're the rattiest city, I think for the seventh year in a row, we have a huge problem with lepto. But I think from the One Health perspective, being able to change the myths [00:34:00] around that disease, why people don't vaccinate for it, and w- why people think it's not in their area, and to really open people's eyes to preventive medicine so that we're protecting families too, and to move the needle, h- you know, those kind of things are incredibly rewarding.

And I think getting back to, you know, if, if you're not clinically practicing, what do you do? I so want to encourage people out there to understand that we as veterinarians have this amazing runway of opportunity in front of us to find our own path To use our degree and to do so much. And if you try something new and it's not what you thought it was gonna be, your life isn't over.

So many other things we can do as veterinarians, and so I, I've had fun exploring all the detours around that over the last few years, and probably the most enjoyable has actually been my angel investing group, which I, I know we briefly talked [00:35:00] about. 

Megan Sprinkle: Yes, absolutely. So you mentioned a little bit about y- you like to build, you like to create- Yes

you like to watch light bulbs, uh, happen. Yes. So, I mean, I can kinda see how that can start to get you into the entrepreneur world, and y- you liking the energy, but I wanna hear it from you. So how did you really get started into helping entrepreneurs and then, of course, leading up to VAN, the angel investment group?

Natalie Marks: Yeah. Well, I think at heart, I've always been an entrepreneur, whether it's been helping build people's skillsets, right? From a small... People call that mentorship. I still think that's entrepreneurship in a way. I mean, you're helping build people. But certainly from my practice, and then moving forward and having my own consulting company, and then I started dabbling in investing in other companies.

I've surrounded myself with colleagues who are, a lot of them are at the [00:36:00] same, I'm gonna just say, career crossroads that I was at, where either had sold their practice or were wanting to do other things outside of clinical practice full time. And many of us paths had crossed, you know, the VMX hallway, you know, how many-

how many years. But we, we ended up getting connected. I ended up getting connected to Ira Gordon- Yeah ... who has become a dear friend. And as we were talking, he said, I, you know, "I think you'd love to be part of this group that we just founded called VAN, which is the Veterinary Angel Network." And so I w- I've been part of that executive committee now.

We're just coming up on our three-year birthday, so that's a, a pretty s- pretty young group. But essentially what, what this has been is we are, I think now 83 members, but 78% veterinarians, the rest industry executives or research scientists or [00:37:00] people in the finance space. But all centered around one goal, which is we wanna move the needle forward with animal health innovation.

And so what this is, just to strip it down, is we are essentially the veterinary Shark Tank. So we, we have, uh, three big principles, which is direction, connection, and funding. And so we are mentors or advisors to startups that might come to us and form a relationship. We have funded, I think we're up to 21 companies in our portfolio, all across animal health.

So as examples, Dalan Animal Health, which created the first honeybee vaccine, that's one of our portfolio companies. Jimini's, which is a cricket-based insect food which just came through. It's probably one of our biggest fundings as of late. But we have a, a very large Pretty widespread portfolio [00:38:00] stemming from non-wearable technology to vaccine technology, a lot in the oncology space, some of the software development that's helping with efficiencies, uh, any of the kind of traditional research pharma that we're looking at, looking across different animal health industries.

And so the beauty of it is, is that we are a funnel for founders to come through, and some of the founders aren't ready for where we are. We're, uh, we're pre-seed or seed and Ser- Series A, so we're the very earliest of funders. But we will vote on different companies that come through, and we have a pitch night every month where the top three come and do live pitches, very similar to the show.

And the really cool thing about it is, one, we get to see the earliest innovation that's out there, and there's some cool stuff coming. And I, I think if more veterinarians had access to this, it might recharge them [00:39:00] in a way to be like, "Ah, I could totally use this," or, "When is this gonna be available?" And give them some hope of what, what's ahead, especially in efficiency space.

But it's also an awesome network of people, so great new friends for me, great new outlet, people that have very similar goals and come from all different backgrounds. So I'm learning so much. But the third thing is, is we're building this new brand, the very first veterinary angel investment group that's, that's out there.

And you'd be surprised how desired this is right now, because it's not just that there's a lot of innovation happening, which thank God it is. We, we need it. We're, we're still behind, right? But a lot of the founders that have come into this space have no animal health background at all, especially veterinary background.

So we are very needed to help them understand how clinics work, how marketing works, why your business model would never succeed, [00:40:00] obviously in a kind way. But helping shape their future too, and helping their com- their companies build or be prospective M&A target, or make a difference in how we treat disease or cure disease, and how pet parents enjoy their life with their pet.

So it's been a super fun build. I-- we are not done by any means. We're very active. It's a huge part of my... I say it's a hobby 'cause it's not a job for me, but it's more than a hobby. I think it's a passion project for me and, uh, there's a lot of, like I said, very, very successful, just very good humans in this group that are wanting to help us, again, shape what our industry becomes.

'Cause I think we could all agree There are definitely some challenges that we're facing right now, not just internally, but certainly access to care and how we're gonna care for all these pets, and who's gonna teach at these new [00:41:00] schools, and how are these students gonna get experience, and what is corporatization gonna look like, and, you know, everything that's ahead.

And I think there's gonna be a br- a very, you know, a very different industry 10 years from now than what we knew. 

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. 

Natalie Marks: I love that I'm a very, very small little kind of, um, bolt in, in that machine that's coming forward, but it's nice to be able to help these founders understand where their idea fits and see their light bulb moments, and just from a different space.

So I, I've really loved that I've been able to, for 23 years, do clinical practice and really focus on patients and pets and helping my team. I have just had my 17th student that worked with us and worked for me get into veterinary school, so helping shape the new generation. But now to be able to help the founders and sort of on the [00:42:00] other side of it, and use my lived experience to help them be successful.

So it's been an awesome journey and, and I hope that people listening not necessarily are inspired by what I've done, but maybe it sort of sparks that little dim flame that's been sitting inside of them th- where they think, "You know, maybe there's something else I wanna do," right? Our life is not o- I just turned 47, and I...

Like, my kids are like, "Oh, you're so old, Mommy." But I, I have to think I'm, I'm not that old. I'm just starting a new chapter as a veterinarian and it's... I just want to encourage listeners to think it doesn't all have to be clinical practice. If that's, if that's your jam, run with it. You know? Preserve yourself.

Take care of yourself so that longevity can be there. But you can always go back. And so right now I'm loving this road and I'm loving being a columnist in different magazines and, and journals and being on podcasts and [00:43:00] meeting very cool people and investing and doing a lot of the things that I never thought I would when I graduated veterinary school.

But there's so much out there. So much out there. 

Megan Sprinkle: Well, you're preaching the Vet Life Reimagined, like, theme. So thank you for that. And I wanted to say, when I have explained VANE to people before, I similarly say it's a little like the Shark Tank of the veterinary world, but I say, "But they're all really, really nice."

Oh, 

Natalie Marks: yes. I would say that, well, that's the, the number one thing about membership is that that's, that's our number one requirement. You have to be a good human. So, um, yes, that's so, so sweet. So yes, with VANE, the, the beauty of it is I think it brings out the best in people. It allows people to really show their skill set, which as we talked about, right, I, I know nothing about the regulatory space of industry, and I [00:44:00] can ping one of my colleagues in VANE and say, "Hey, I've got this company and I need some help looking at the regulatory space," and boom, it's like phone a friend.

And I'm also getting a crash course in regulatory along the way. So I think for those out there, if you have interest in investing, if you have interest in learning the entrepreneurial and int- innovation space, if you have, uh, time on your hands where you're getting restless and you're like, "What else is out there?"

Yeah, check us out. It's, uh, vane.vet and you can, uh, see all the members and our portfolio companies and sort of what we do and that might be something that lights a fire in someone else. 

Megan Sprinkle: I absolutely love that. You talked about that, you know, you're able to see a lot by working with Vane and all these entrepreneurs who have all this innovation, and it's exciting to you.

And you even mentioned that if you th- if the veterinary community could maybe even see a little bit of that, it might uplift them. Is there something [00:45:00] that you can share about what you kind of see as the future that's coming that could be encouraging for the veterinary audience? 

Natalie Marks: Yeah. Well, I think what is exciting that's to come, and I'm gonna say this with a grain of salt because for it to be exciting it means that as probably one of the least tech forward vet professions out there, we need to keep an open mind, is how home diagnostics will help us in practice.

There are so many companies out there developing home diagnostic testing, uh, genetic testing, things that are going to be able to be monitored from home from a biometrics perspective that once we figure out how does that information get collected in a, an efficient way and delivered to the veterinary team in an efficient way and analyzed by the veterinary team in an efficient [00:46:00] way, we will be able to not only monitor our patients more appropriately at home, we'll have more bought in pet parents, and we'll be able to do the type of medicine that we want to do with reliable results.

I mean, how many times have we had cats come into practices incredibly stressed, go through unfortunately we'll just say non-fear-free, uh, diagnostics and get results that are completely inaccurate because they're completely stress-based, right? And there's so much on the horizon with the home diagnostic space that if as the veterinary profession we can stay open-minded and not immediately shoot down the possibility of having our pet parents help us collect these samples in a non-stressed way, and to be able to submit them and work together efficiently within our PIM system to be able to, again, [00:47:00] not only monitor compliance but also get early access to disease at home where our families are comfortable.

Once we perfect that, I think it's gonna change efficiency immensely. I will say one of the companies that I love, I'm an investor in so I, just to disclose that personally, but super exciting is Sylvester AI. 

Megan Sprinkle: Oh, yeah. 

Natalie Marks: So Sylvester AI, I know Megan you know about this, but for those of you that don't created by Susan Gronveld, who's out of Canada, and it is a phenomenal app that has taken AI to the next level, looking at cats' facial recognition.

It started out for a pet parent to take pictures of their cat, and the, the app will say if their cat is happy or not. So it's, uh, started out in the body language realm, right? Which is totally needed in itself because we don't understand. We think cats are small dogs. We, we don't take a lot of time to teach our pet parents what a cat's [00:48:00] muzzle and whiskers and eye shape and ear shape mean.

It is now delving into research, looking to see if we can take that facial, which she now has hundreds of thousands of AI facial recognition imagery, images in her database, and pairing that with biometric data to see can we take a picture of a cat at home and diagnose diabetes? Can we take a picture of a cat's face at home and diagnose kidney disease?

And think what that would do for the feline profession if we can get to that point, right? That's a, uh, the next goal milestone. If that could happen with accuracy where a pet parent could say, "Hmm, my cat's not sleeping with me at night," take a picture of their face and go, "Oh my God, my cat has a high chance of being diabetic.

I need to bring my cat in." I mean, could change the way cats, cat, feline medicine is practiced completely. And [00:49:00] so thinking about things like that and how does that fit, how can that change? We know less than two out of five cats ever see the veterinarian in their entire life, right? How that could spurn more feline visits, better feline care, more connected cat parents.

The possibilities are endless. So I, I hope that... I mean, that's kind of the thing that we do in Vane all the time is hear things like this and see how we can add value, not just capital, but also, you know, certainly the kind of advisory role of how that could be placed and how that would work and connecting the right people.

So yeah, that's, that's just kind of stuff I'm excited about. 

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, I love it. It's a mind-blowing one for me. I think it is definitely game changing when it comes to feline healthcare- Yes ... for sure. 

Natalie Marks: Yes. 

Megan Sprinkle: And so the last question that I like to end on is what is something that you are most grateful for? 

Natalie Marks: Is it more than one thing?

Megan Sprinkle: You can... Yes, you can keep going. I 

Natalie Marks: have one. 

Megan Sprinkle: Okay. As long as [00:50:00] you 

Natalie Marks: want. So I think I have three things I'm most grateful for, at least right now in my life. The first definitely is, are my three kids. I think any human, a parent of human children out there, if I'm speaking to you, it's really been kind of life altering to me to watch my children grow.

Three... All genetically mine, but three completely different little humans forming their own opinions, and I think the, the biggest moment for me was when my kids were old enough to say they were proud that I'm a veterinarian and proud of watching what mommy does. Um, for the longest time as a working mom, I think we all have gone through this if you're a working parent, where you have tremendous guilt of how do you ba- you, you don't balance.

There is no balance of working and parenting. There's always a moment where you're feeling guilty 'cause you're not with your kids, or guilty 'cause you're not working. But I think that when I finally heard my kids, without being [00:51:00] prompted or being paid, said that they, they were proud that their mommy did what she did and they're proud of watching my successes and, what and what I'm achieving, it kind of was one of those things where I'm like, "Okay, I guess I ha- I've made it.

I, I, I'm okay. Um, I- they're gonna be okay and I'm gonna be okay," and so I'm eternally grateful every day for my children. I'm also incredibly grateful to all of the amazing mentors that I've had along the way. I mentioned Dr. Wanski, Dr. Rubin. There's so many people out there that have, even if it's just been a single moment when I needed a lifeline or I needed someone to just give me that hug, or I needed someone to say, "It's okay if you don't feel good today.

You don't, you don't have to put on that brave face every second," and to support being vulnerable and to support that you can show [00:52:00] weakness and still be strong. All of those moments along the way, I'm very grateful and I try to always give back, I think. And then I think the final thing that I'm grateful for is being able to actually not feel guilty about taking care of myself.

I spent a lot of my career taking care of everyone else and having some really challenging moments of being completely on empty and not being able to refill, and it's taken a lot of work and a lot of time and a lot of grace to be able to say, "You know what? It's okay if I choose to take a bubble bath tonight and not spend 30 additional minutes with my kids tonight."

Like that, that is okay. I can binge-watch a show and take a bath and eat some junk food if I want to because it's okay 'cause I, I need to refill. [00:53:00] And I think for pet parents too, but also par- parents of human kids and veterinarians, we ... You know, you add all those together and your empathy level is way up here and your self-care level doesn't even rise on the screen, and you can't live like that.

So I'm grateful to myself to finally reaching a place where I start to do that more 'cause I thought I was gonna feel really guilty about it, but I realized I can be a much better mom and a much better vet and a much better friend and a much better daughter to my parents who are aging and a much better mentor, just like you said, when you can get sleep and eat better, and I always exercise every day now.

I don't care I- if I have to get up at 5:30 in the morning or do it at nine o'clock at night, I know my brain is better when I exercise, and I don't feel guilty about it anymore. So I think I'm grateful I've reached that pinnacle of being able to say it's okay 'cause I, for a long [00:54:00] time I did not feel that way.

So those are my three grateful things in life.

Megan Sprinkle: Dr. Natalie's career journey is a great example that there are so many possibilities in veterinary medicine. The veterinary degree, the clinical experience, and the relationships you build in this profession are a launching pad, not a ceiling, and she is just getting started. A reminder that on Sunday, July 12th in Anaheim, Dr.

Natalie and I will be recording a live episode of Vet Life Reimagined at AVMA's first-ever Podcast Day. We'll be talking about shaping the future of pet health through startups and innovation, and we would love to have you in the audience. I will try to put all the details in the show notes if you want to learn more, including if you want to learn more about VANE and the work that Dr.

Natalie is doing, shaping the future of the veterinary medicine. Please check out the show notes for all of those details. Also, this is new. I didn't do this in, uh, in the first [00:55:00] edition of this episode, but I have put together a podcast club guide of all the key takeaways and questions to apply this episode to you personally.

So you can find that in the Sprinkle of Wisdom Substack. And as always, I have put links in the show notes so you can find those easily. If any of the resources that I create, the audio podcast, the video on YouTube, the LinkedIn newsletter, the podcast guides, please subscribe wherever you are showing up and share it with someone in veterinary medicine who you think would appreciate it.

And until next time, keep reimagining what's possible in veterinary life. And I'll see you at AVMA