A Veterinary Behaviorist's Unapologetic Guide to Building a Career on Science, Empathy, and Infinite Confidence | Dr. Lisa Radosta

Dr. Radosta is a board-certified veterinary behaviorist and has spent 26 years fighting for the legitimacy of a specialty she loves. This vet career spotlight on Vet Life Reimagined features guest Dr. Lisa Radosta, whose childhood showed her the power of the human-animal bond, and she said the path into veterinary behavior was natural. 

A graduate of the University of Florida College of Veterinary Medicine with a residency at U of Penn, Dr. Radosta built Florida Veterinary Behavior Service into a four-location, five-doctor specialty practice over 18 years. She has trained eight residents, co-authored multiple textbooks including From Fearful to Fear Free and Behavior Problems of the Dog and Cat, and appeared on Animal Planet, CNBC, Nat Geo Wild, and more. She is fierce, funny, emotionally intelligent, and completely unapologetic about all of it.

This one is vibrant, honest, and deeply entertaining from start to finish.

Vet Life Reimagined is hosted by Dr. Megan Sprinkle. 

Resources:

• Video Episode on YouTube
• Podcast club guide + key takeaways: Sprinkle of Wisdom Substack 
• Dr. Lisa Radosta’s website
• Dr. Radosta's YouTube Channel
• Veterinary Behavior Textbook: From Fearful to Fear Free
• Veterinary Behavior Textbook: Behavior Problems of the Dog and Cat 

#VetLifeReimagined #VeterinaryBehavior #VetMed #AnimalBehavior #FearFree #VeterinaryMedicine #BoardCertified #VeterinarySpecialist #SprinkleOfWisdom

The Animal Health, Nutrition, Technology Innovation (AHNTI) conference will be in Boston on Oct 26-28. Registration closes July 12th, so don't wait. Learn more at AHNTI-US.com and use code VETLIFE10 to save 10% on registration.

Transcript

Lisa Radosta She/Her: [00:00:00] Every vet needs empathy. Every vet needs understanding. But when you experience trauma, and you have a deep understanding of what that feels like, when an animal panics during storms, I feel that 

Megan Sprinkle: Welcome to Vet Life Reimagined. This conversation is vibrant, honest, and deeply entertaining. Lisa is unlike any previous guest, fierce, funny, emotionally intelligent, and completely unapologetic about all of it. Dr. Lisa Radosta knew she wanted to be a veterinary behaviorist probably before most of her classmates knew what one was.

By the end of her first year of vet school at the University of Florida, she had made up her mind, behavior, let's go. What followed was a residency at U of Penn, which she applied to not knowing it was an Ivy League school because she just wanted to do the thing. Two back-to-back resident research awards from the American College of Veterinary [00:01:00] Behaviorists and a specialty practice in Southeast Florida that grew to four locations and five doctors over 18 years.

Dr. Lisa Radosta is a board-certified veterinary behaviorist, sought-after international speaker, co-author of multiple textbooks, including From Fearful to Fear Free and the fourth edition of Behavior Problems of the Dog and Cat, and someone who has appeared on everything from Animal Planet to CNBC. She has trained eight residents who are now out in the world changing lives, and she sends them off with the same philosophy she has always practiced herself: know your science, lead with empathy, and never apologize for having both.

In this conversation, Dr. Lisa shares what 26 years in one of veterinary medicine's most misunderstood specialties has actually taught her about building a practice from nothing, about the evolution from being frank to being frankly [00:02:00] empathetic, about why the Olympic gold isn't the keynote speech, but the one dog whose life changed because of a video she made on her back porch, and about why she's convinced that the young doctors coming out of vet school right now are going to change this profession in ways that make her genuinely excited for what comes next.

This one is rich from the start to finish. Let's get to the conversation with Dr. Lisa Radosta. 

When did you know you were even interested in veterinary medicine?

Lisa Radosta She/Her: six years old. I think that's a lot of us. I think, in vet med, I was just telling a friend, actually, it's really not a career choice. It's like in your bones. You've been dreaming about it since you were a little kid. So I was really, really young. It was my first dog. We begged for it. Like so many vets, I begged for my first dog.

It was a black lab puppy. So, yeah, I was in first grade

Megan Sprinkle: That's amazing. [00:03:00] Yes, a lot of us are early identifiers. We, we knew very young. So like you said, a lot of times I think we're just like born this way. I don't know how to explain it any other way. And, and you did have a puppy, but were you around any type of animals or anything that kind of encouraged you to go that direction?

Lisa Radosta She/Her: I was not. I was not. I don't even know why I asked for this puppy. Like, I don't have any idea. Uh, my mom didn't buy me, you know, especially, books that had dogs in them, and we didn't have a dog. We lived in an apartment. Our neighbors didn't have a dog. I have no idea, but I really wanted this puppy.

And I think that, again, many of us, many human beings, much less veterinarians, when you're in a traumatic situation, which my childhood... I don't know if it was traumatic. It was tumultuous and chaotic and on and on. And there's this dog, right? And so in every space in my life that was chaotic and [00:04:00] traumatic as a little girl, there was this dog.

So really, there was almost no other way I could imagine developing except to want to give back to animals what they had given back to me. And it wasn't just that one time. At every dark spot in my life, there was a dog. Now, I'm not-- I have a cat lying at my feet. I had a horse until he passed away. Like, it's not to say I don't love...

But it just happened that dogs have always, been there and, that just solidifies my bond with them

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. Well, speaking of the human-animal bond, you had that unique experience growing up. jumping ahead just a little bit, I usually like to stay a little more linear, but I love foreshadowing too. So now you're a behaviorist, and I believe that behavior is one of the largest impacts to the human-animal bond.

It really can. So, when you look back in your childhood, is there anything that you can remember that, you know, [00:05:00] now being a behaviorist, that kind of foreshadows you going that direction?

Lisa Radosta She/Her: Yeah. That first dog, there was this English trainer, I don't remember her name, but she used to say, "Walkies." You have to be pretty old to remember her. And I insisted that my mom... We didn't have a lot of money, but I insisted that we get this book, and I would train this poor lab who was probably, like, the most patient dog of all time 'cause I was clueless.

So training animals was really fun for me, and that went on with my horses, and then as I got older, I showed my dogs, and then I worked as a dog trainer in veterinary school. So that was always a part of me, was modifying the behavior of animals. And then you know, on the other side of that, once you experience trauma a- and someone helps you, so my dog, my black lab, her name was Duchess, you have an empathy toward that being, whether it be a person or a dog or a cat, that I don't think you could have experienced before.

When someone saves you, [00:06:00] there's more than just a bond. It's like an understanding, and I think that has also carried me through with behavior. It's not that every vet... Every vet needs empathy. Every vet needs understanding. But when you experience trauma and you have a deep understanding of what that feels like.

And so when an animal panics during storms, I feel that, right? Whereas maybe an internist experiences something else in their own life that allows them to have empathy. But when you experience it, then you see it in an innocent animal, you feel compelled to change it, like you have to change it. You know what I'm saying?

Megan Sprinkle: Hmm. Yeah. That's really interesting that you also did some dog training and the podcast episode that I listened to that you were on it was, sounded like a very good friend that you had known for a long time, and she was a dog trainer. So what was it that directed you towards vet school [00:07:00] instead of, like, dog trainer?

Lisa Radosta She/Her: Yeah. Um, well, I-- you know what? That's such a good point because I never thought I would be a dog trainer. I love teaching animals, but I don't know why I didn't go toward dog training. I mean, this is getting into deep personal stuff, but my mom, always told us just, you know, some basic Italian mom-isms.

One of them was, "Don't move from your mother's house to your boyfriend's house." It actually was your father's house to your boyfriend's house, right? So that's advice from mom, Italian Catholic mom. And she also said, " Always make your own money." And she also said, "You're going to college." It wasn't like, "I'd like you to go," because she wanted all the things we, that she did not have, She didn't have opportunity. So, it was like doctor, lawyer, accountant. We didn't have a lot of choices in mom's mind. she wasn't that clear about it, but she was clear. "You can't end up [00:08:00] like me." 

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah,

Lisa Radosta She/Her: So I think that we were on the track for college.

You can be a doctor in college. Off I go.

Megan Sprinkle: you picked animal doctor, so

Lisa Radosta She/Her: Yeah.

Megan Sprinkle: that counted for her.

Lisa Radosta She/Her: Yeah. Well, she's wished she wanted to be a veterinarian when she was a little girl.

Megan Sprinkle: Oh,

Lisa Radosta She/Her: Oh my God, she's so... But she's proud of my sister. My sister's an attorney. Like, she's proud of all of us, but we share that, like, deep just love of animals. Yeah

Megan Sprinkle: Aw, that's amazing. So e- even though it sounds like you had hints, , of interest in training, did you go into vet school even knowing that a behaviorist existed? Like, is that what you wanted to do the whole four years?

Lisa Radosta She/Her: not exactly single-minded, but close to it. So when I went into that school, I knew I wasn't cut out for primary care.

Megan Sprinkle: Mm-hmm.

Lisa Radosta She/Her: That just, was just wasn't for me. So there were three specialties I was interested in: neuro, derm, and behavior. The neurologist now more than ever, but even back in vet school, when I was in vet school from '96 to 2000, they did a lot of cutting.

I mean, now they cut [00:09:00] all the time, right?

Megan Sprinkle: X

Lisa Radosta She/Her: I was like, "I don't wanna do any surgery." I... So that was out. I still love dermatology. Like I, I love it so much, but the thing that I couldn't stop thinking about and talking about with all my classmates was behavior. So I figured that is where I'm headed. That was from the, from the day one of vet school, I knew I was gonna specialize, and probably by the end of the first year I'd been like, "Okay, behavior, let's go."

Megan Sprinkle: You did your vet school at Florida. Did, do they have a full-time behaviorist there? Okay, I was like, I don't remember getting any behavior in vet school. How did you get your experience and, and kind of like know what to do?

Lisa Radosta She/Her: Yes. So, um, I came in with a lot of years of training dogs and horses, a lot. So I already underst- I had already made the evolution from being a harsh, aversive trainer to a positive reinforcement trainer. And at that time, [00:10:00] oh my gosh, there was no social media, there was no YouTube. So you're diving into books, you're reading and reading.

So by that time I'd learned a lot about learning theory. So there was that. And so then, we had the one-week class, Jackie Nielsen taught us for one week, and she was such a good teacher. She's a friend of mine now. Like, she was such a good teacher. And other than that, I did externships. And, you know, I'm kind-- The thing is that I'm kind of the person where I'm just like, "I'm gonna do this thing."

I'm not like, "How do... I have to do the thing, and it has 50 steps, and should I plan it?" I'm like, "No, I'm just gonna do the thing." So it didn't matter that I didn't have experience sitting with a veterinary behaviorist, because I was 100% certain that I was gonna do the thing, so I went in without experience, and I did my internship, a small animal rotating internship, and I just started applying.

And my daughter's 18, and she applied to the colleges that she loved. I was like, "I don't care. I just wanna [00:11:00] do the thing." So I applied to every university that had a residency open that year. I applied to everybody, right? So Georgia was open. They rejected me 'cause I didn't have a master's degree.

They actually took Mommy, a friend of mine, who does h- did have a master's. And then on an off cycle, Penn comes up. So I'm like, "Okay, this is how I know nothing." I didn't know it was a Ivy League school. I was just like, "There's a school. It has a residency. Oh, Ilana Reisner is the, mentor." I follow... I basically had been following her around the country.

Whenever she spoke, I was like there, like trying to get close to her. That is another thing I did. I went to so much CE, like every behavior CE that I could possibly get my body to in that time period. So I go up to Penn, and I get accepted, and I was like, "Oh my God." So I came home from my visit, I got my acceptance letter.

I told my husband, and he goes, "Ivy League," and he hugs me and picks me up, and I was like, "What?" I'm like, "I just wanna go to any school that will get me through a residency." [00:12:00] So yeah, that's, that's kind of how it went. That's something my mom gave us, right? Infinite overconfidence that we are capable, and if you just think about it, it...

and, and do it, it, it happens.

Megan Sprinkle: I like that you, you know, you didn't worry about Ivy League nature of it. It was like, "This is the thing I want to do, and this is the route to do it," so

Lisa Radosta She/Her: Yeah. It could have been Bubba Joe's Behavior Residency in Podunk Nowhere, and I would've gone. Really. I would've gone. So, yeah. I see the kids now are very... My technician, everybody has a technician applying to vet school. Everybody, right? And my technician's very selective, and I said to her, 'cause she's been declined once to all of her schools.

She got accepted to an island school. She declined, for financial reasons, and now this, she's applying again. And I said, "Listen to me. Look at my face. Apply to as many schools as you can afford to. Cast the widest net. What difference does it make what state you're in? Who [00:13:00] cares? Get your degree and get out."

And she's like, "Okay." But that's how I felt. Yeah

Megan Sprinkle: So did you have to move for that then to go, yeah

Lisa Radosta She/Her: Yep. So I moved first, and then Scott, my husband, we were already married, of course. And so, , he moved after me about three or four months after me, I would say. Yeah

Megan Sprinkle: So what was residency like? I mean, often when you finally get to really lean into the specialty you've been dreaming of, like, what was that experience like?

Lisa Radosta She/Her: It in- incredible. Like absolutely beyond... Because my mentor was perfect for me. She was there always. I could call her at any time, day or night. She was always there for me. She wasn't always in the building, but she was there, but she didn't micromanage me. So then I remember one day she called me into her office and she said, "Lisa."

And I said, "Yes." And she [00:14:00] says, "I heard that you started a program for students and you're working with research cats." I said, "Yeah." And she's like, "Well, how long have you been doing that?" I'm like, "Six months." She's like, " Okay." Like, it was just like that. You wanna do the thing? She would let me do anything.

I rewrote our questionnaires with our technicians. With our technicians, I rewrote all of our handouts. She was there as a safety net, like I wasn't gonna hurt anybody. But she also was not really interested in the nitty-gritty of the things I was doing, and so I got to accomplish so much. I started a program for students where when they came through our service, we, got rescue dogs and worked with the rescue dogs.

Like we improved the lives of the research cats. It was just amazing. Amazing. Yeah

Megan Sprinkle: it sounds like you are also starting to learn even the other unique things that you enjoyed. It sounds like you might have really enjoyed mentorship or teaching. any other [00:15:00] things you're kind of realizing about, about yourself and your own interests?

Lisa Radosta She/Her: Um, so what was I realizing about myself? I knew that I loved-- Like, I was doing what I loved. I think the special part of that, besides being at Penn, was that I had my heart dog at that time, Sweetie, my Rottweiler. and so, when Scott stayed in Florida with, the, other Rottweiler and the cat, and I took the horse and Sweetie up to Pennsylvania.

And so I got three months before he moved up with my dog in this little tiny apartment in Philadelphia, and those were really special times. Like, we watched a lot of "Sex and the City" together. Oh my God, so much, she and I, on this little black leather loveseat, which was gross 'cause that's all we could afford.

But, that is one of the things I remember about residency that was so special, was the time that I got with that dog, and I took her to work with me every day. And then when she, when she died, [00:16:00] I was here in Florida. Uh, well, I mean, we euthanized her, but so I was here in Florida, and I was just, I was devastated.

I took two weeks off of work because she was dying, and I just couldn't work. I wanted to be with her. I was so devastated, I could not recover. So I went on the, , Sweetie farewell tour. So I went back to Pennsylvania. I went to all the places she and I had lived together. In Gainesville, I went to my condo, and then I went to Pennsylvania.

I went to my office. I went to the rehab facility because she had had a hip, total hip replacement. She actually had both sides done, one in Pennsylvania and one at UofF. so I went back there, and I cried in the hallway there. I picked up her best friend. My friend let me take her dog, and we went hiking on the same trails that me and the two dogs used to hike on, and I cried there.

I stopped at the Starbucks where I used to get her a bagel, and I cried there too. So it was, like Pennsylvania and residency was a really unique and special [00:17:00] time.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. a- and the other unique thing about behavior as a specialty, a- and I love how, how really intimate with the human-animal bond you really have with your dogs, but, like, behavior is not a huge specialty. And so, there's not a lot... I'm a nutritionist, so I kinda understand that it's a small specialty.

Not a lot of people, even within our own profession, really understand it. So, what has that been like as, you know, going through residency, which luckily you were at a university that obviously at least had some appreciation for it since they had a residency program. But, what was that like a- as you were going through residency, but then also looking at your career options after residency?

Lisa Radosta She/Her: Yeah. So, well, I think there's two aspects to that, right? There's the aspect of what would I do. I always knew I wanted to be an entrepreneur and that I would work for myself. I don't like to be bossed around. Better for me to be the boss. It's fine. So again, I came out, I, [00:18:00] I knew what my business plan was.

I started my business. I went back to the, doctor that owned the practice where I did my internship, and I guess I was a good intern because he's like, "Come on back. You can rent space from me and, and I'll help you. Oh, you don't have a way to take payment? No problem. I'll take your payments until you get on your feet.

I'll pay you a percent." Like, Dr. Mizell owned, Coral Springs Animal Hospital. That's the doctor. Really amazing. He was like, "Come on, let me help you." And I'm forever grateful because like I said before, I'm not gonna plan everything out. I'm like, "It's in my head. I'm gonna do the thing." It turned out to be a four location, five doctor practice at the end, as when we finally ended it 18 years later and did that big practice.

so that part I, I don't worry about it. I know I'm gonna be okay, right? Then the other part, I think, is the battle, and I know you experience this as a nutritionist. It's the battle for legitimacy. [00:19:00] And again, we're so-- we're getting real personal on this podcast, but one thing that my Italian Catholic father taught me was to fight, right?

And I tell people in our house, I was born with my fists up, and the motto was kill or be killed. There was a lot of... A lot in my house. So I'm not-- I don't go home, 'cause some of my colleagues feel, ugh, they feel beat down. Why don't we get the same respect as an internist or a surgeon? Why are people who are using shock collars held up as the leaders of behavior and how to teach animals?

Like we are doctors, et cetera, et cetera. You know, I don't feel that way. I'm right. I got science on my side, and I have no problem debating with anyone, and I know that I won't change everyone's mind, and that's okay 'cause I have science on my side, and I have ethics and humanity, right, of how you treat animals on [00:20:00] my side.

So I don't feel... Thank you, Dad. I don't feel discouraged. I just feel like every day I get up, I get my Wonder Woman shield, and I put my cape on, and I crusade for this specialty. And there is no one, when I'm in that, when I've got my superhero suit on, there is no one that can intimidate me. I will not stand down.

This is legitimate. My residency was rigorous. The board exam gave me diarrhea for two days. I published two studies. Okay? I, I did it. I wrote my research grant, like all of it. It is legitimate. I base my practice on science, not on my opinion. I have opinions, but that's not what guides my medical treatment.

Those are the nuances that I present to clients, my opinions. I remember standing in ICU at Dr. Meisels' hospital because I sat when I saw cases there, right near ICU, which I loved. So there was this visiting doctor from, Toronto of all [00:21:00] places, and I had my stethoscope around my neck because I examine my patients 'cause I'm a doctor, right?

Some of them I can't, I get it. But so I had it around my neck 'cause that's how we store things as vets, and he approached me and said something like, "Oh, you're the vet behaviorist. Is that stethoscope just for show?" again, y- things are reflexive from your childhood, and I just, without even thinking, just gave him everything with both barrels.

The technicians are just standing there like, "There she goes again. There she goes." But I just am not gonna be treated that way, And they do it to nutritionists too, and it's awful. It's awful

Megan Sprinkle: the specialty's very lucky to have you. I, I think you do. You have to have the people that are just ready for battle sometimes. Uh, I, I hate it that it's that way, but it, it sometimes it comes in handy when, when you have to fight for your value and, and do what you love to do. [00:22:00] So when you were building your service at the clinic what was the first approach?

What, what was maybe the... 'Cause, uh, you do the thing. So what was the pr- approach? Was it about building awareness within general practitioners for referral? Was it awareness to pet parents more directly? Like, what was kind of the best approach for you?

Lisa Radosta She/Her: So Dr. Marzell's taught me that your client is really the referring veterinarian. Now, 20 years later, that's probably not true. 26 years later, it's probably not true, right? Because of social media, because of direct marketing, all of those things, podcasts. But at that time, this stuff didn't exist. And he said, "The referring vet is your, primary client.

You need to be able, affable, and available." And I said, "Check." So Every vet could get my cell phone number. It was not something I kept private. Anytime they called me, emailed me, we weren't even [00:23:00] texting then, isn't that funny? Called me or emailed me, I was there for it. I was there to help them 100%.

I don't care if it was Sunday night at 8 o'clock, I'm there to tell them how to knock that dog down that they can't touch. And I'm there to give it to them in a non-arrogant way. "This is what you need to do right now. You do this thing, you're good. You'll be fine. Call me back if you have a problem." And that still to this day happens all the time.

I got a dog in my lobby, I need to give a rabies vaccine, you know, they're texting now. So I did what he said, and I also did what he said for clients. When a client needed me, I was there and I had empathy for them, and I'm pretty frank, like I am in this podcast. I'm frank with my clients, but they know I love them and care about them, and I've always just had that sort of feeling and those values.

And so, like, if I was passing by a veterinary clinic and I was in my workout clothes, I would stop in, "Hey, I'm Dr. Radosta. I'm the local vet behaviorist." And I do that [00:24:00] still, and it's really fun 'cause people will say, "Oh my God, we send dogs to you, and I- I've never seen you in person." I'm like, "Here I am."

Right? So just doing that, shaking hands and kissing babies is what I call it, right? that's what I've always done

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. You mentioned the, "I've got a dog that needs a rabies vaccine and I can't touch it," kind of moment. Were there certain cases that, I mean, you could convert a vet to like refer to you? Y- and maybe even a specific story that you still remember to- today that kind of highlights the ability to network and, and get clients?

Lisa Radosta She/Her: Well, so I think that that experience, innumerable times a vet has gotten on the phone with me and said, "I don't know what to do." Not like they're throwing their hands up, but kind of like almost like, "I never learned this. Like, I literally don't know what to do right now because no one ever taught me anything about this."

And as soon as you give the answers, because [00:25:00] here's what, I think new specialists forget. You and I are not a new specialists in our specialties, but new specialists forget that what is a hard question for them is probably an easy question for you, right? And so when you answer the question, y- you've built that goodwill.

And, I can remember a time the big deal cardiologist called me and You could tell he was an older man, which doesn't do-- it's not good for me because of my upbringing, right? So, and he was talking down to me and about behavioral medicine, and we were sharing a patient, and talking down and talking down, and I thought to myself, "This is not going to work for us, and I wanna help this patient."

So I used all of my big words, all of my big monoamines and catecholamines and serotonin reuptake inhibitors and dopamine and CSF, serotonin metabolites, and all [00:26:00] the studies, and he just shut his little mouth. He just didn't say a dang word. And you could tell by the end of the phone call, he respected me.

I knew something about my specialty. That sticks in my mind. I guess the things that stick in my mind, again, back to childhood, when you have to overcome. When I speak to a vet, I adore vets. I love this profession. I'm not overcoming anything. I'm happy to talk to them, right? it's the things, the times I've had to overcome and gain legitimacy that stick in my head, right?

'Cause those are big successes, and I ended up working with that cardiologist later in my career, by the way. Yes.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, I love that. you kind of talked about how, you know, 26 years ago there was one approach and now you've been doing it for a couple of decades. What have you seen that has changed in veterinary behavior in general, but like specifically for you [00:27:00] personally, what have you kind of watched evolve and how you've kind of changed in your career?

Lisa Radosta She/Her: Yeah. I feel like the old me. I feel the same. I think the, I think the difference now with my approach is I call it, I teach my team Frank empathy, whereas I used to just be Frank. Like, so where I might just say, "Hand me that shock collar.

Take it off," like if I, as a new specialist. "Hand me that," right? Now, I- I- I explain all the reasons why we can't use it, and I say, "I want you to take it off. I want you to throw it away in the outside garbage, so you won't be tempted to go and get it when you're really frustrated." I talk to people in a different way.

When a, when a person comes to me and says, "I can't do all these things," instead of as a new doctor, you have the way, the Penn way. At Penn, we do XYZ. Now I have, like, all these tools. So now I'm like, "It's no worries. You can't do the thing, don't do it. We're gonna do this other stuff. How's that sound?" Like, I can [00:28:00] always find a solution now, and I couldn't do that 26 years ago.

But the difference that I see in the profession is that the doctors now, they may not get more schooling in veterinary behavior, but they are drunk on the Kool-Aid. The young doctors know what is humane. They know what is kind. They don't know the name of it. They may not know how to execute it, but in their hearts, they know it's not right to sit on top of a 10-year-old dog with arthritis on a hard, cold floor and try to get blood from it.

They know it's not right. They just don't know because we haven't empowered them. That's our problem, right? They don't know how to talk to their boss about it, or maybe they don't feel like they can say to the technicians, "We're not gonna do that today." But I have no doubt that these baby doctors are gonna grow into the doctors who advocate for the welfare of animals on a whole different level, because all veterinarians do, but on a [00:29:00] holistic and emotional level.

Because I had a doctor come to me the other day, I was trying to help her with evaluate her hospital, and she says, "I'm afraid that new doctors are not gonna wanna work here." And I think that was pretty telling, because the new doctors are coming out and going, "Do I wanna work there?" How are you restraining animals?

Are you boxing down cats?" they feel empowered, and I think that's, like, amazing, right? Amazing.

Megan Sprinkle: I'm interested that you went towards the veterinary professionals too, which is good 'cause for some reason my mind was wondering about the pet parents because I'm glad that that is the sentiment of the veterinary profession because I think that is definitely the sentiment of pet parents, and if we aren't matching that, that's a big problem. cause even in my career so far, you know, I finished vet school in 2014, and the evolution of how [00:30:00] we see pets like really has changed. And I, I also wanna ask you about the pandemic 'cause I can only imagine with people with their pets 24/7, you probably got lots of extra calls. but they care.

They want to do what's right, and they know because pets are now so intimately part of our lives, they're indoors with us. I'm in Miami. They're everywhere, right? People are taking them in their cars on their daily errands. Like, they're with them all the time. And so any type of behavior concern is going to impact that and, and they care about that for their pets so much.

So, from the pandemic and on, like what has that been about probably pet parents even more wanting to know how do I support my pet to improve behavior, whether it's, you know, one thing or another? I'm sure you see lots of things.

Lisa Radosta She/Her: Yeah. I think one of the things I am seeing now that you mention that, that's different maybe the past, I don't know, [00:31:00] five, 10 years, maybe the past five years versus 20 years ago is... So in the, in our questionnaire, I know you have a questionnaire too, right? So in my questionnaire, I ask pet parent goals.

Like, what does success look like to you, right? And used to be stop my dog from biting, uh, and I still get some of those, or stop my dog from destroying my house. Just stop my dog from fill in the blank. Now, help my dog feel less anxious. Help my dog not be scared. Help my dog have a quality of life. Like that is the majority of what I see now.

The problem consequence answer is not that common anymore. And the marketing surveys that, I mean, I'm not a marketer, but, you know, you know as a specialist, companies ask you to sit with them and analyze information. the most recent marketing survey that I saw demonstrated that Zs are very aware as pet parents.

They are very in tune with the behavioral wellness of their pets. And like you said, [00:32:00] Florida, I think, is unique. In Florida, animals go everywhere. People are like, "Yeah." I'm like, "No. You're gonna see a lady with a miniature poodle at the grocery store.

Megan Sprinkle: 100%.

Lisa Radosta She/Her: Yeah. You're gonna see a lady with a Maltese on a retractable leash in the middle of the Boca Raton Mall walking right into Tiffany's."

Like, this is how we live here. And, and when I have visiting doctors, they're like, "What?" I'm like, "Well, yeah, you're gonna find dogs everywhere." That's a lot of pressure on dogs. That's a lot of pressure. If you live in, let's say, Toronto, you are not gonna experience that. You're not taking your dog out at below zero temperatures.

Your dog gets a reprieve. You can't walk your dog for an hour, right? So especially down here, we expect a lot of these animals. They're going to go everywhere with us. They're gonna be kind to everyone. They are not gonna get upset when we get up and go to the bathroom, and we leave them with our friend, right?

They're not gonna cry for us. They are going to be quiet and not bark at [00:33:00] strangers. Like we got big expectations of these little animals, and that causes a lot of stress. Another thing that I don't think is that different now than before, but I talk about more now, is the mismatch between the animal's needs and the client's wants.

The expectation reality mismatch. I mean, that is real, and it causes a lot of frustration for the animal. We've been talking about dogs, but cats especially, and for the pet parent, right? Is that mismatch because not all animals are meant to go to restaurants, right? You know?

Megan Sprinkle: I experienced this myself. I'll, I'll tell a story on myself real quickly. So, my first job out of my residency was working at Royal Canin, and so I went to work in the headquarters outside of St. Louis. And they have a pet in the office, policy. You can bring your pets to work. And [00:34:00] so I had gotten a puppy, a month after my marriage, and I'm not sure if that was the best decision.

But, uh, gotten this puppy, Great Dane puppy. I was so excited 'cause I had not had a pet in a while because I was moving around a lot. excited to take this puppy into the office, show her off, right? And, you know, in my mind, I had the vision. She was gonna be this perfect puppy, sit by my feet and just be quiet and still.

It went terrible. Like it was so, so bad. Um, and then later, you know, find out she, she does have a lot of anxiety, and she just ... She was just not a office dog, and I had to accept that, and even training did not get her to that point. but at like ... I just wanna say, I totally get it as a pet parent.

You know, we, we do. We have these wonderful goals for them, and, you know, just like children, right? Like we we might have goals for them,

Lisa Radosta She/Her: Yeah.

Megan Sprinkle: not them, and we have to let them be them.

Lisa Radosta She/Her: Yeah. And that's-- look, [00:35:00] that's real, and I-- sometimes I tell clients, "You're gonna have to grieve it. You're gonna have to just grieve it. It's okay. It's okay to be sad that this thing did not work out how you planned." And that is-- and if it's a young client, I say, "You are being prepped to be the parent of a human being."

It's not that they disappoint us, 'cause they do- they don't most of the time. It's that you have an expectation as a human being of everything in your life, everything, that your car will start, that your partner will behave a certain way, that your animal will behave a certain way. And when those expectations do not match with reality, that is where stress lives, in that space, right?

And sometimes clients are like, "Thank you for giving me permission to not walk my dog." So for dogs who are reactive and people that have yards, I'm like, "Why are you walking your dog? Like, tell me what is driving you." Sometimes they want to walk, and that's their only exercise, and then we find a [00:36:00] pathway.

But if they're like, " Because a dog trainer," or it doesn't have to be a dog trainer, "My friend told me dogs should walk." I'm like, "Yeah, in the backyard. Go in the backyard," right? they wanna let go of that expectation, Sometimes we as vets are just like, "No, it's okay. You don't have to do that. It's okay."

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. So because this podcast, I, I try to help people start to spark ideas if they are looking for the next step or just, you know, to, to grow in their career in veterinary medicine. If someone was let's say they're already a veterinary professional, could be veterinarian, veterinary technician, what would you recommend if they wanted to pursue more about behavior?

Like, what, where are the best places to start? It doesn't necessarily mean that they go and get a residency in behavior, but what do you think if somebody in practice was interested in behavior, what are some of the best things that could actually revolutionize just the way they practice in general?

Lisa Radosta She/Her: Yeah. I was just [00:37:00] talking to a friend of mine in general practice about this like a week ago. at first I would decide what is best for you. So I wish that as a baby doctor, I had written a, a career mission statement But I didn't do it until many decades later.

Because that will bring you back to what is really important to you. So do you want to be an expert? I knew I wanted to be at the top of my game, you wanna be an expert, you got one path. You need to go do residency. And I don't care what you think you can't do. You can do a residency.

If you got through vet school, you can get through a residency. It's not any different. It's actually easier because you're practicing and you're not opening books and drowning in formaldehyde and cow poop and everything else every day. So just go do it. You're telling yourself you can't do it. I get it.

But you can do it. You've got all the excuses, and they're legitimate, but you still can do it. You can find a way. You don't have to travel like I did. University was best for me. I needed the structure. I wanted out in [00:38:00] three years. But there's all these different ways to do residencies now, so you can do it.

Let's say you don't wanna be an expert, but you really like, oh my gosh, you enjoy this stuff. Then you're gonna take CE that is specific to your skill set. There are certain conferences... I don't wanna disparage any conferences. So there are certain conferences that I know give base level. So you can talk to your local vet behaviorist or not even local.

You can email somebody that you know and see what they think. I could say these conferences basic, these conferences have higher level, right? So go learn your basics, then you go to the next conference. You can then start to get certificates. Like Dr. Overall started the, it was NAVC at that time, certificate in behavior.

You could do Sophia Yin's Low Stress Handling and Restraint. You can go all the way through, Fear Free elite certified for Fear Free. So you can start to gain that kind of knowledge in those ways. Of course, I love [00:39:00] my textbook that I wrote. It's super practical. I didn't write all of it. I wrote some of it, and we had guest, authors that I edited.

So have that in front of you. I know that you guys wanna turn to Plumb's and, I get it, and Plumb's is easy. But if you are interested in behavior, you need a textbook because you need to be thinking about the next level, and what Plumb's gives you is the base level, Not nuanced in any way. and then the other thing I would say is find your people.

If you're isolated in your practice, you will become the fear-free doctor, the behavior doctor, and that's very cool because you will be seeing all the cases, and that's very cool, right? But if you don't have your people, you don't have any support. And if you're not in charge of the practice, and I understand that I sit in a place of privilege Because I'm the boss, so I can set my practice up whatever way I want.

But there's lots of people like me who are not in power at their practice. And [00:40:00] so maybe the technicians don't wanna do things a certain way, right? Stuff like that. So find your people. Work at a practice where they're going to help you grow into what you want. And also go to the Veterinary Behavior Symposium, which is the American College of Veterinary Behavior's two-day meeting that is every June.

Those are your people. They are living it, eating it, breathing it, drinking it. Make those friends, have that become your community so that the days when it's really hard, because again, primary care, you're in the trenches. You might have two behavioral euthanasias that day. You need to call on your peeps that get you, that understand what you're going through, that have empathy for that hurt, and that also will not judge you for what you did that day.

So yeah, that's what I think I would do.

Megan Sprinkle: And I've been so impressed with w- the veterinary behavior group has done their CE, their event every year. It's virtual and in person. [00:41:00] I always encourage people, if you can go in person, go. It's a lot easier to network and really soak it in. But the fact that there is that virtual option, you're, you're kind of eliminating excuses.

So just, just saying there's some really good opportunities there to get more really good, valuable education in that area.

Lisa Radosta She/Her: Yeah, for sure

Megan Sprinkle: Now, I know you talked about your, your mission. You said it took a little while to write, and you shared with me a, a lot of that mission, and you can clarify exactly what it is, but is around, education and outreach on helping people really understand, the importance of behavior. So is that what drove you? 'Cause you have done so much. It, it's actually very intimidating to read your LinkedIn on the media that you've done, the interviews that you've done, all, all of that. Was all of that to drive that mission that you have?

Lisa Radosta She/Her: It, it was. I mean, it's just, it's just a drive to get the word out. A drive to [00:42:00] get the word out, and I don't... It's to my detriment. I should-- I am now at my age, amended my, career mission statement to try to reel myself in, Because, I didn't even have to think if someone said, "Will you speak at this conference?"

When I was first started, I didn't even have to think about it. I knew that until I spoke at enough conferences that I was going to be hired for the bigger conferences. Until I did that, I could not educate the masses, So I spoke at every little VMA. I did a lunch and learn to anybody that would listen to my voice.

Like, I've done so many lunch and learns, any veterinarian who would listen to me. So you do all of that. I call it hustle mode, right? And then you can be more choosy. But yes, it was always about getting the platform to spread the word

Megan Sprinkle: . Is there a particular event that you still remember? I'm just so curious 'cause again, you've, [00:43:00] you've done lots of interviews, you've spoken so many, you've written multiple books, but is, is there a particular instance that you're really proud of or just something that you'll always remember?

Lisa Radosta She/Her: lecturing-wise, I mean, I get to go to cool places. I got to go to Russia and Austria and Paris, and you get to go to cool places. But I think when I was asked to be a keynote speaker at one of the Fetch conferences You know, as a vet behaviorist, we're just so undervalued, and it was nice to see behavior front and center.

And I would say that that... I don't practice my lectures. I just get up and wing it, and I mean, I... my lectures are detailed, and I take a huge amount of time making them entertaining and fun and... but I don't practice them 'cause I don't wanna be, like, rigid. But I practiced that lecture again and again because I wanted it to feel like the highest level because this was my chance, right?

To show [00:44:00] that we deserve to be there. I think as a woman, this is not an unusual feeling for any woman because I feel like, for me at least, I know my daughter feels this way, you've gotta be one and a half. You've gotta be extra. You can't be even with the guys because sometimes we have to do more and be more to be considered of the same value professionally.

So I think that was the biggest thing. But I will tell you, every day there's a win. I, I don't get discouraged. So I made a video eons ago about I think it was like the five top mistakes that vets and pet parents make with behavior meds. it's on my YouTube channel.

I do like a long form video once a month. It's like five minutes or whatever. So one of them was going too fast with meds doses. Start slow and low always. So then the other day I posted a research post. On Sundays I do the research post. [00:45:00] Fluoxetine versus Reconcile. This was a poster, it hasn't been published yet, looking at the difference between the generic and the brand name.

Every vet behaviorist knows from the original Elanco FDA approval study that there's about a 15% difference in bioavailability between generic and, and brand name. So we all know this, but it's not out to the GPs, even though I've been preaching it for a decade. So anyway, so I made the research post, blah blah blah.

So here's the point. A regular pet parent, I never met her before in my life, she comments and she says, "My dog was having side effects to Reconcile, and I wanna cry. I just wanna cry." And she said, "I saw your video on YouTube, and I went to my vet and I showed him the video, and we reduced my dog's dose. And I've slowly worked my dog up in dose with my vet over the next," whatever it was, I don't know, "six months, and my dog's doing very well with no side effects."

That was a

Megan Sprinkle: Hmm

Lisa Radosta She/Her: YouTube [00:46:00] post that I made on my back porch, and that dog's life was changed. Like, that's the Olympic gold. It's not speaking in front of 1,000 people. That's the Olympic gold, is that that dog wasn't getting help For whatever reason, she didn't go to a vet behaviorist. Maybe she's in Idaho.

There's no vet behaviorist, right? And she goes with my little video on her phone, and her vet's like, "Okay." And the dog's doing well. Like, oh my God. Crazy

Megan Sprinkle: I love that perspective. And I also wanna give shout out to that veterinarian that they didn't get defensive. It's like, "Well, I'm a vet, that's a YouTube video." Like, they, they're like, "Okay, let's try." you know, that collaborative care I think is, is really important. And you're right, it doesn't have to be fancy to be impactful

Lisa Radosta She/Her: It [00:47:00] doesn't. And pet parents, like you said earlier, they are so empowered right now. They're not taking anybody's BS. If you as a vet are gonna say something, they're gonna come up with a YouTube video or ChatGPT analysis or something, and I don't get upset. I don't think the Dr. Google joke is funny. I don't have a coffee mug with, the Dr.

Google joke that, um, I'm a real veterinarian, I don't think it's a funny joke. Bring it on. Maybe I don't know about it. Maybe I need to get educated on whatever it is you found on Dr. Google. And by the way, since when don't we enjoy explaining things to people? Isn't that our job, to explain things to people?

"Yes, you found this thing. Let me talk to you about that." that's our job

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. I know you've trained multiple residents as well, probably when you're talking to them or just as you're thinking about the future of behavior, [00:48:00] I think this is no better time for opportunities within veterinary medicine to lean into what you like, but especially in health when pet parents are really interested in getting their pets health and in participating. where do you see the future of behavior and, and where do you wanna stay as a part of it?

Lisa Radosta She/Her: Yeah, I want to spread the word. I wanna crusade until I drop dead in the exam room. That's what one of my residents said when I took that year break from working. She was ending her residency. I wasn't gonna leave until my residents were done. And then there was a client in the exam room, the client's like, "Oh my God, what are we gonna do?

You're leaving, Radosta's leaving." And she goes, "Listen to me. Radosta's gonna drop dead in an exam room. Believe me, she is coming back." And she's right. That's how I'm probably gonna die, 102, just go down. Some dog'll lick my face or whatever. But so, so, um, so anyway, I hope that I am still seeing cases as long as I want to, because my [00:49:00] amended career mission is do what I love with people I want to be with at the times that I want to do it.

So I hope I'm still doing this 'cause I love being in the exam room. I hope I'm still educating people, and I hope that I am seeing all of my baby doctors, who are all amazing, all eight of my residents, change the world. They send me videos of them doing cool things and changing the lives of animals. So I hope I'm still seeing that, and maybe I'll get the opportunity to educate another resident.

We'll see. We'll see how it goes.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. I, I'm curious, you say they send you things about the cool things that they're doing. Is there an example of something that they're

Lisa Radosta She/Her: Yes. So I have a-- I won't say their name because

Megan Sprinkle: Not today

Lisa Radosta She/Her: I don't think they would be excited to hear that. But so, one of my residents, they're off practicing, and one of the things I told my residents is by the time you leave this service, you should be able to see a dog in a parking lot without a pre-appointment questionnaire and make a [00:50:00] treatment plan, right?

You don't need to be fancy-schmancy in your exam room and get your 10-page questionnaire. Just get it done, right? They all can do that. So this particular doctor, sends me a video and with it a story about how an important person brought their dog, and the important person was not kind, and the important person was pushy, and the important person was talking down to this doctor. And, this doctor maintained her professionalism, which they would have anyway, but that is what I teach them, but this person would have. and they knew how to talk this person down, which we call the Boca Raton effect. We know how to deal with people. We know. We know it, right?

So they told me, "I learned from the best. I can talk to clients in South Florida. I know exactly how to handle this without offending that client." And then this doctor put their money where their mouth was and starts training the dog, and that's the video I got. They said, [00:51:00] "This highfalutin person brought this dog to me and said, 'You can't do that.'

And within five minutes, the dog was doing that." Not only can my girls, my doctors, they happen to be all girls, not only are they great doctors, but they all have training chops. They all can train an animal, which is what a vet behaviorist should be, So that kind of stuff, I'm just like, "Dang it.

I'm so proud of you." If I can say, I am so proud of you right now because some doctors would be intimidated by the big highfalutin person. Some doctors would have frozen. Some doctors would have been defensive. But this doctor knew, number one, their skill set. Number two, that they were on the right side.

They're on the side of ethical, humane training, and science. Once you feel that, ain't nobody gonna take you down. They're not taking you down. And you don't have to be angry about it. Just show your skill [00:52:00] instead of showing your ass. That's what I will say. And that's what that doctor did, and I couldn't be prouder.

They were amazing.

Megan Sprinkle: I love that. And it is really different about a veterinary behaviorist who is a veterinarian because we've talked about this too, how there's a lot of overlap in health issues and behavior. And having a medical background allows you to, yes, do a physical exam and be able to assess those things and make a very effective plan that supports that animal

Lisa Radosta She/Her: Yeah. People, now more than ever, veterinary behaviorists have got to understand how to recognize. You don't have to know exactly how to go and treat IBD, right? That's gonna end up with the nu- the veterinary nutritionist or the veterinary internist or, or both in collaboration. But you have to be able to recognize that, you know, a fecal score, of five is not what we're headed for, right?

Like, you have to know your fecal scoring chart, you have to know where you're aiming for. You have to be able to explain to clients [00:53:00] that the fact that they switched from chicken to lamb is not legit. Like, that's not the food trial. You have to explain to them that the pork treats they're giving screwed any food trial you were doing.

Like, you have to know, are you gonna choose HA or HP or Z/D? Does ZD come in canned? Because the truth is they all taste different, and some dogs will eat some, and some dogs will not eat others. Many, many times a day I am practicing orthopedic medicine and internal medicine. Many, many times a day. as much NSAIDs go out of the practice and Prilosec to protect the gut as Prozac because so many of these animals are sick.

Just today I saw a Frenchie biting, and I I said to the lady, I said, "This is a Frenchie. I'm gonna be frank with you. There's no way your dog's not painful. There's just no way. And 85% of Frenchies have GI disease under the radar because of the pressure, just trying to breathe." I said, "She can't breathe, and she's [00:54:00] had trauma of an attack by two dogs, and your house is filled with kids, and that's fun for me and you as mommies.

Like, I couldn't think of anything more fun, but it's not fun for Frenchies." Right? And I said, "Does she lick bite or chew herself?" She's like, "Yeah." Like, and put on top of that, she's got some dang allergies, right? Like, we got problems. If you can't recognize, if you're just asking about behavior, you're gonna overmedicate a lot of animals.

A lot of animals, I think.

Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. Well, I've asked you tons of questions. Is there anything that I haven't asked you that you like to talk about with your own career journey or you think the veterinary profession should know?

Lisa Radosta She/Her: I just want young doctors to know, number one, yes, you can make a living in behavior. I make a good living, and I made a good living before I closed the big practice. Don't let anybody make you think that you're gonna starve to death as a vet behaviorist [00:55:00] or a nutritionist, by the way. You can make a good living.

Will you be accepted at every specialty practice? No, it doesn't matter. You find your people or you create your people. Just do what I did. Just create people, right? You could do that. Number two, I think that I want young vets to know you're right. when you see the animal being held down, you're right.

You know it's not right. So you can say something, and your technicians often, maybe not all of them, but often they're waiting for you to say something 'cause they don't feel right either. But they were taught to scruff, it's not their fault. They weren't taught anything else.

There's gonna be the holdouts, but most of your technicians are waiting for you to say, "Can we try something different?" 'Cause I keep forgetting, and my technicians just reminded me the other day, technicians really care about their [00:56:00] doctors. Do you know what I'm saying? They really care, and they want you to be happy, and if they think that you're unhappy about restraint, they're ready to change, most of them.

So exercise your power in, a kind way. Exercise it and change the world.

Megan Sprinkle: Yes. Direct with empathy. I absolutely love that. The last question that I always like to end on is, and this can be professionally, personally, but when I talk about gratitude, what is something that you are very grateful for right now?

Lisa Radosta She/Her: Wow. What I'm grateful for right now, I feel like I'm grateful for my family, my husband and my daughter, as my daughter exits our lives to go off to college. I know I did raise her, my husband and I, but I feel like she almost raised herself. She's, she just-- I couldn't [00:57:00] have, I couldn't have manufactured or created with a magic wand anyone more aware and politically ready for the fight, but knowing when not to fight.

Like, I didn't have that knowledge. She knows when and how and, you know, you get a call from the principal, "Mrs. Huntley," 'cause that's my married name. I say, "Yes?" She says, "Did you know that your daughter's planning an ICE walkout at school? An ICE protest walkout?" I said, "Yeah, I know. I know." "Well, might we ask that you request that Isabella not take kids off campus?"

I said, "No worries. I will make sure she doesn't take kids off campus." Like, that's a phone call, frankly, regardless of my political affiliation, having my daughter go into the principal's office and say, "This is what I'm planning," and not be intimidated by the principal and the dean of students, and do it politely, and protest peacefully, and follow the rules.[00:58:00] 

I don't know. I just think she's incredible. I do

Megan Sprinkle: Ooh, watch out world. Um, here she comes. So I'm so curious, does she have interests yet? Does she kinda know what she wants to study?

Lisa Radosta She/Her: She wants to be in film, and so she's going to, Savannah College of Art and Design. She's getting a Bachelor's of Fine Arts in Film. And, we're just behind her 100%. I will tell you, again, honest empathy, when she said she wanted to be in film, I was like, "Okay, I'm behind you 100%. Let's go. Let's go to the arts middle school, the arts high school.

Let's go," right? I said, "But just so you know, you are gonna end up living in your car at some point in your career." I'm like, like, "Are you ready?" She's like, "Mom, ugh." "But it's true. You're gonna be homeless." I'm like, "Ryan Reynolds was homeless, okay?" She's like, "It's okay, Mom." I'm like, "All right." But, , yeah, she's on her way to SCAD.

I'm extremely excited for her. I told her that I'm gonna wear a sequin jumpsuit to the Oscars, so she can't invite her partner because I'm gonna [00:59:00] buy the jumpsuit. So I wanna go to the Oscars. She's like, "Mom."

Megan Sprinkle: That was Dr. Lisa Radosta, and I'll leave you with the career mission she landed on after 26 years. "Do what I love with the people I wanna be with at the times I want to do it." Simple, hard-won, and completely worth fighting for. If this conversation lit something up inside of you, whether it's the courage to say something in your clinic that needs to be said, the reminder that your specialty is worth defending, or just the permission to lead with a little more frank empathy, I hope you'll carry it into work with you this week.

If you wanna connect with Dr. Radosta, follow her work, like following her YouTube channel, links are all in the show notes, including her textbooks. For the key takeaways and reflection questions from today's episode to apply them to your life, head over to the Sprinkle of Wisdom Substack for the Podcast Club guide.

Please subscribe and share this episode with someone in veterinary [01:00:00] medicine who needs to put on their Wonder Woman shield today and know they are not alone in the fight. And until next time, keep reimagining what's possible in veterinary life