Underrepresented: Why Arooj Aftab is Done with Diversity in the Fashion and Creative Industries

Authentic Representation & Cultural Storytelling in Fashion:
Cultural consultant Arooj Aftab, a Vogue Business 100 Next Gen agitator, explores the fashion industry, emphasising entrepreneurship that prioritises representation and authentic storytelling. She highlights the resilience required to challenge norms and the power of community engagement in fostering inclusion. 

She champions “Culture over Colour,” and the need to move beyond surface-level diversity to truly reflect society in creative industries. Her values and vision have led her to host events at Bicester Village, bringing together like-minded people to strengthen their community bond. 

Challenging the Fashion Status Quo:
• Inclusion before diversity – representation must go deeper than tokenism.
• Storytelling matters – cultural narratives are essential to authentic fashion.
• Community engagement – change happens through collective action.
• Fashion’s responsibility – the industry must reflect the true diversity of society.

Connect with Arooj: linkedin.com/in/arooj-aftab-91865814a

Find out more about Arooj's work: arooj-aftab.com

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Transcript

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Hello, I'm Beatrice Newman. We're doing something a little different for this series and I'll be your host instead of your usual host, Peter. This is the Underrepresented Entrepreneur Series. Being a Black female founder myself, I know how hard it can be to do business in London. This series tells the stories of founders that have successfully navigated business where sometimes their backgrounds limit opportunities. In today's episode, we're joined by Arooj Aftab, fashion activist, cultural strategist, and disruptor of the status quo. We unpack what diversity really means beyond optics and buzzwords and explore how Arooj champions culture over color, challenges performative inclusion, and takes a firm stance on representation, refusing to be present in spaces where she's expected to bring her own seat to the table. She's done with diversity, as we know. And she is here to reframe conversation. But what happens when the only way in is on someone else's terms? I'll be honest, I never really questioned my identity until I was made to question it. Somebody would make me be like, ooh, what is this? Don't get me wrong, there was a lot of incidents of seeing racism when I was younger, especially being in the North. But I mainly thought that was my religion, not my race. And I think the biggest thing I got when I was starting off is, I don't know Pakistani. And that was a compliment. And I still get it today. And it's kind of like, what is, what is? Let's get this conversation going with Arooj on today's episode of Venturing Into Fashion Tech. Hi, everybody. We have Arooj Aftab. Arooj Arooj. It's so good. You can say it twice. How you doing? Yeah, I'm actually chilling. The weather's been nice. It's been pleasant. Feels like summer a little bit. Yeah, I'm good. How about you? Nice. So nice. I'm loving the background of your apartment as well because some things are going on. I've got to have like different bits of artwork which only makes like sense to me and my sister who lives with me you know so it's like Peter the Prince and all that sort of stuff I had how can I show personality and I was like okay yeah cool definitely one of the best ways to show personality Arooj on that note tell me about yourself so yeah I'm Arooj I am a cultural consultant I consult brands on representation it's kind of hard to describe what I do because I feel like I'm just creative I lecture Sometimes I consult brands, but the overall main theme in what I do is around accessibility and diversity, inclusion, representation, storytelling. I'm trying to make, I guess, fashion and the arts a lot more visible to marginalised communities and whether it's students having access to the industry or the industry having hires behind the scenes and actual people in decision-making roles and then in front of camera and what we see. So I always say culture over color and keep the fashion industry moving in a way that's thriving. And that's what's important to me. We need to look beyond the surface when it comes to diversity inclusion. Let's get straight into that because with what's going on currently in America, which tends to spread across the globe, and with DEI being taken away by a lot of really big organizations, I mean, where do you then come in in sure that these practices are continually upheld and the importance of it is continually shared. I think when, you know, with the situation in America, I'm not surprised that it's happening. I feel like most people who are pushing for this equity or inclusion, there's going to be people middle class white man that's going to be threatened by it so it's kind of like how do we navigate this space but I think yeah I'm not surprised with America also in saying there's a ripple effect in the UK how many people actually care about diversity inclusion but we need to actually understand what is diversity inclusion I think it's been lost in translation of whatever it is and I think if we're looking at the current climate and the current time diverse inclusion in traditional ways is not what it used to be and we have to really understand that it is understanding the state of the world it can be a little bit political but it's not political it's not a controversial thing it is literally how do we see community and how that how how are they able to access what they need to access that's literally what it's about it's about ensuring that people have access equally to other people who have access you know I think people are threatened by diverse inclusion in aspects that other communities are trying to take over or whatever is in people's minds. So I think when it comes to what I do, I really love to hold on to storytelling and I really love to hold on to like being in the UK beyond London, but also London. And again, it goes back to think of culture over colour, like how do we look beyond surface level for actual representation and storytelling? How do we actually access communities that, need support to thrive but yeah I think going back to what we're seeing in America I think the independent sort of people that are doing diversity and inclusion have some more I guess more freedom in moving around certain industries whereas the amount of people that are being made redundant or fired is I'd be lying if I said it wasn't a bit scary because it we are still at a distance for power because we're still not necessarily in the decision-making roles. We still have to go through that approval process. So if the people in the approval process are not listening, then I'm unsure or uncertain of what the future of actual diversity inclusion looks like. But I think I'm still optimistic. So let's dig into that a bit more because when you talk about community and the work that you do, I mean, your work spans fashion, activism and inclusion. maybe could you talk about some of the early experiences that have shaped your drive to centre underrepresented voices in everything that you do? Yeah so I started Down With Diversity which is part of my I guess theme of consulting so I don't use the word diversity actually I feel like it makes a non-disabled heterosexual white man and woman look normal anybody who's not that is diverse and also not always somebody's appearance so how can we look beyond surface level. And the way I started that was I did a BBC documentary in 2018 called My Tumour Made Me Trendy. I was born with a condition called neurofibromatosis. This is where non-cancerous tumours grow inside my nerves and skin. The entire left side of my body has a slight disfigurement to it along with tumour growths are benign on the left side. And I did this documentary and it was mainly about me coming out with this condition. But at the time I had a fashion bug. I just finished a fashion communication at university and I was working in the modeling industry but I was still blogging at the time and I was put up for like these influencer stuff and these awards and on the basis that I wore oversized fits that's how simple it was back then and the basis that I was wearing menswear and androgynous fits it was like oh what's this girl doing but I think what people didn't realize it was was I was hiding a condition and menswear was the only sort of thing that I could hide with but not that not that I was ashamed but I just didn't really want people to know and It's also not obvious that I've got something, but I think when you've got something and it's in your head, you just want to be invisible for as long as possible. So I did this documentary in 2018, and I think in the first day of the release, the Newsbeat article got one and a half million hits. And I freaked out. I was like, oh, what the hell? I was like, oh my goodness. I can't believe this. It's really overwhelming. Cut forward from being one of four women of colour on my university course out of 100 and something students to being one of the first muslim brown girls to work at this agency that was working out in the modeling industry to then doing this documentary and being put into the diversity box i realized i was the only person that looked like me but also understood what it was to be me versus the people who were in their campaigns um and i went from being told diversities people that look at me which i was oh yeah cool okay I get it to then questioning it when I was put in the box because I was like what is diversity because I'm looking around so I'm getting these campaigns I'm getting so many things come my way but it was all diversity campaigns but the teams behind the scenes did not reflect what was on camera and I was the only one versus me against other talent and I was like what what is diversity but then that's where it hit me I was like oh my god my skin color is not diverse having a disability is not diverse this is so self-respect It makes, again, as I said, the non-disabled, heterosexual, white man and woman are normal. Who decided that, you know? So that's when I started down with diversity. That's when I started this whole move into diversity, inclusion and community. And ever since then, I've been actively trying to push beyond surface level, any form of surface level representation, because I don't think there's any longevity in it. I don't think the people necessarily who are behind the scenes that run diversity and inclusion communities campaigns are used to run diversity inclusion campaigns are culturally intelligent in what is being portrayed and the messaging and the impact and power that has so ever since then I've been quite pushy on how can we make this more authentic and how can we not box up communities that are already boxed up we have to stop that because we're constantly boxing boxing boxing boxing and there's zero longevity in how communities portrayed and it's like we're separate this is separate another thing is separate but everything's one collective fight with a few little tweaks for each community and that's really phenomenal and thank you so much for taking us through that journey and it tends to like you're saying box people up because you have the race issue then you have the sex issue then you have the able or disabled issue but in actual fact diversity is so nuanced and so complex it does involve everyone it's humanity in itself and so when you're not really able to understand that there is no such thing as normal or perfect and you're able to really build a creative world like where we're working in the moment where you do have people in production who are still understanding of all these different facets and are not coming at it from a singular point of view and something that I find that actual diverse people when you're talking about colour, race or abled or disabled have had to live with their whole life and build into their mental psyche and vocabulary, right? I would love to then dig a bit deeper then in regards to you being a British South Asian and Muslim woman and how understanding all these complexities of diversity, how it's influenced how you approach fashion and story. I'll be honest, I never really questioned my identity until I was made to question it. And that's the truth. I'm from Bradford where... majority of people look like me right so we're in a population that is majority Asian up in North West Yorkshire I never really questioned like my identity that somebody would make me be like oh what is this don't get me wrong there was a lot of incidents of seeing racism when I was younger especially being in the North and I think at the time it was the British National Party that used to march the street but I mainly thought that was my religion not my race So I knew people had an issue with the religion. And then it wasn't until, I guess, as I got moved out of the city to explore my creative avenues that I was then made to question my race. And I think the biggest thing I got when I was starting off is, oh, you don't look Pakistani. And that was a compliment. And I was like, but don't get me wrong. I took it as a compliment when I was a kid because I thought, oh, my God, I think I'm cool. And I think when you have a media portrayal for so long that you're not cool, And you're sort of the background person, or you're invisible, or you're the enemy, or you're not educated, or whatever portrayal we have in media. I was like, yes, that's a compliment. But I was like 16, 15, you know, until I got old. And I was like, what? You know, what is? And I still get it to this day. You don't know Pakistani. And it's kind of like, what is Pakistan? I'm brown, one. My majority of South Asians kind of look similar with a few distinctions. different features. I'm always curious to know what people have in their minds, especially when it's from a non-South Asian person. I'm like, what is that? Because I think there's a lot that sort of shapes who you are and how you sort of navigate, but race never became a question until later on in life. It was always my disability or my condition that I've got. So I feel like as a kid, I was sort of, then getting to teens, I was battling this condition, religion, race, all this thing at once. And when I look back, I think that's quite a lot for like a young person to take on and I know that even in this day and age ever since I've been lecturing and teaching the kids today have a different battle like it's a whole different ball game where I'm like what okay I thought I was struggling but these guys like it's it's almost so subtle but you're almost like how do you navigate these spaces when you talk about some of the comments that you have received in your youth such as and you don't look Pakistani I mean I can feel liken that to when people used to say, oh, you're pretty for a Black girl. And it's like, I'm just pretty. Why do you have to emphasize for a Black girl? It means that there's a stereotype or story or narrative that's already free-formed or formed in people's minds that Black girls are not beautiful or pretty, similar to Pakistanis are not cool or it's not great to look like a Pakistani. What does that really mean? And so So I guess what I'm coming down to is you in such a powerful position and what you're playing, you know, your personal experiences, how have they shaped how you tell fashion narratives and stories to reshape that narrative for the world, for others to be more educated and un-stereotyped shouldn't really be existing. And definitely they do exist to be in line with how others have told you the authentic story, right? I think when it comes to fashion, I always like mixed South Asian heritage like even like these earrings for example I'm always going to be in Pakistani jewel with English clothes and it's not even a deliberate choice it's like I just like it and I think it looks sick so I'm just going to wear it it's weird because I think as people that come from culture and ethnic groups we don't think about how can I be the most ethnic today it's like we just just integrate it in in what we do so I think you know it's not it's not a it's a subconsciously think that you just integrate into fashion naturally and from the craftsmanship that we come from I know that I really value fashion in all its forms and for me I think fashion became a really big sort of turning point ever since I was young from seeing the clothes Then sort of being a British Asian is like balancing my Western wear to my Asian wear. Like when it was on uniform day in schools, people were like, oh my God, like what do your parents do? I just like security. Like it's not that deep. Like this is from like a fast fashion shop, but it's how you style things. And I think from growing up and seeing how things are worn versus just being worn was quite impressive. And that's how I think identity is shaped. Like the layering, the color, the color theory is always subconsciously there without us having to think about it. And I think that's just naturally been a progression for me. But yeah, I don't think about like when I'm trying to be me, how can I look so Asian today in my Western clothes? It's just, I might pick up a pair of rings or I might pick up a pair of, but it's not something I think about. I just need jewelry to go with my house. I love that. And the earrings are gorgeous, by the way. I've admired... Yeah, they're amazing. And just like you say, we don't overthink it because it's just there in our DNA. And I think that's the beauty of it and what we bring in regards to a little bit of seasoning, if you will, into the very white Western climate or understanding of what fashion is. And I think that's why, again, it's important that people like ourselves are embedded within an ecosystem where we can really help build or bring in a dynamic point of view. And I think sort of coming back to that, we've talked about how you approach fashion and storytelling through your own lens. Could you maybe talk to us about how you've consulted on some really powerful campaigns and initiatives and even share a moment where you saw how the impact was a result of your inclusion in that work? You know what, there's been a mixture of stuff actually. And it's not like one thing. I think when people think campaign, they think visual, one thing, ooh, creative. And I think a lot of it is actually just seeding what I've done and what I like to do I always say you know you seed as much as you can on whichever flowers grow they're going to flourish when you go there and you're not trying to do everywhere because not everyone is wanting to reseed it so it's like how can you authentically not compromise who you are but also go into a place that you can actually consult and actually thrive and yeah I think you know so in the past like you know I think the most rewarding things that come to mind is probably hosting the first ever iftar during Ramadan for Bista Village and I don't think any brand had done that before and now we're seeing brands do it and I feel like that was a ripple effect like I don't know any brand that was doing it until the team at Bista and I got together and were like I think like majority of your footfall is like like you go to Bista Village and you see the communities that are there and I'm like have you ever spoken directly to like the Muslim community or like the Arab community or the South Asian community well yeah like they do it in their campaigns and I think they do a great job at Vista Village anyway like this super cool brand you know and then we were just like alright how do we feel about hosting an IFA you know 20 people from the luxury fashion industry writers talent influencers journalists whatever like just to find those 20 people in a room and break bread together it is just a dinner really you know I think that play up it is a dinner but we're doing it during Ramadan was quite powerful it's the first year we had 2023 we did 20 people at the Londoner the year after we did 43 people at the Savoy and the year after because of the climate of the world I thought it was really important to not segregate and keep it I think people really misunderstand what Ramadan is or what we do so I thought we have to have some sort of unification where we inviting our neighbours is to come in and be like, oh my God, we're going to break bread together. I think that to me is a really turning move because I think I've always been quite passionate about how, I guess, faith, doesn't matter what faith you're from, but how faith is perceived by people. And that also ties into diversity and inclusion. I think that is the most, one of the biggest divides we are actively seeing in terms of how people misunderstand others or how people might judge other communities. There's a point actually on your website and just I think it's a beautiful phrase and you need to reference it but I feel like it sums up everything that you're talking about with what you did for the event at this village to celebrate Ramadan and it's why I'm fighting to ditch the term diversity and how we can actually become more inclusive without it. I mean could you expand on that term just a little bit for us? I actually wrote an article for Stylist magazine for that as well and I think when it comes to diversity I think it's so easy just to use of word and act like the job's done I also think words cause a lot more division than actual inclusion and like so if like if anybody listening to this if I was to say what is diversity and we just pause on that for a second and if the first thing that comes to mind is a few black and brown people in a room then immediately I think that that thought is so damaging because what you're now saying is that that black and brown is not equal to white and therefore we we need diversity to have these people or we need some sort of diversity initiative to have these people in the same room as somebody who might be a white counterpart. Scrap that. How about we don't have these terms and we just create inclusion first? The way I see it is you can't have diversity when the whole sort of system for inclusion isn't there in the first place. You have to start with the inclusion aspect first. Even if it's offices and they have their diversity board, is that office even inclusive to have have a diverse city board. How are we working this? So I think it is just labels and where people want to get away with things and check a box to mark that they've done an initiative versus actually doing the work. It goes back to what I'm saying, when you clump people into a box, there's no inclusion. And then we also lose that culture of a colour aspect where any form of black and brown is good enough for representation when actually representation only matters when it's in the right hands. word diversity is so outdated it's not really cutting it unless it's culture of a colour and beyond surface level and understanding geography and history and community and aspects of that then we can actually do diversity properly where it's not based on someone's appearances. I always feel like I completely get where you're coming from and it's us having to go through these different vocabulary or words or terms that has allowed us as a world to somewhat heal, go back to history understand why things are the way they are and then in a way kind of revise how we use these terms in our everyday life so I think for it diversity had a point in time where it was very relevant now we understand it for what it was we now need to move towards well actually the new terminology is inclusion as you're saying because of what you've already mentioned about diversity in itself and it was much needed because at the time it was black and brown and and sex and all of those categories that needed to be defined to get back to people's psyche and understanding of the inherent exclusion that was going on right but now you know it let's move on to this is what actually inclusion of like for everybody I think that's a powerful thought that you've brought to mind and it sort of brings me back to this question on knowing that fashion operates with systems of exclusion right like how do you navigate cushion for systemic change while still working within the industry. there is ultimately still often a white counterpart deciding on who gets that diversity inclusion access or who's going to be on the board or all this sort of stuff you know so i think we have to really re-evaluate how we see diversity inclusion but yeah going back to your point it's really interesting because i think when you come from a marginalized background you're so aware of marginalization um and you still find marginalization so it's like oh gosh it's like what what no but i I will say that the fashion industry is progressing. Maybe not as fast as we want it to, but it is progressing. And I really want to point out one thing. You know, we talk about the fashion musical chairs and these white men being correct directors, but why haven't we celebrated? If you just take a step back, I understand that as a conversation. But look at the major fashion publications. Nearly every major fashion publication has a black female editor-in-chief. So I'm like, actually, yes, this is really, really rubbish. what we have in just these constant musical chairs of white male creative directors before we have this something so outstanding here that I think people are losing focus on. British Folk, Elle, Marie Claire, they have black women as the editor-in-chiefs. So there's a really interesting balance here and I think it shows that work is being done but there's still a lot more work to be done. And when it comes to Salma as my I think, you know, there is a lot of lack of South Asian representation in fashion. However, we are seeing major ripples. And I always say small ripples make big waves. A lot of it for communities from our backgrounds, I think it starts at home. I think it starts by introducing kids to the arts and fashion. But then that doesn't mean that the job's entirely ours. It means that also when we're in these spaces, how do we then get access to these jobs? there's a lot of work to do but I think it's looking at it from a perspective that's like completely outside of it but as someone inside of it it is very fast paced and it's kind of like what might matter today might not matter tomorrow I could say the same about I mean we talk a lot about black people but what is black because they are still very different cultures but you wouldn't say just white people they're European or something like that there's a distinction and I think what we're just finding is that there's been such a heavy play for years and years and years of a white centric mentality when it comes to all of these wider jobs I mean fashion industry right and so it becomes almost abnormal or strange even to those from a diverse background or global ethnic majority background to see themselves being represented in a space that's always been taken over by the white western look right and I feel like what's been really great is over the years that's changing because you do have more black and brown people being advertised in prominent campaigns but it takes a while for everyone's psyche including those in the global ethnic minority to I feel like see that as normal and not just tokenized in a way and even more having my own brand and representing not on purpose but because it's very inherent to my culture and heritage all black models for very black and brown models from varying different cultures and places from the african continent and then you're sitting back knowing i do have white western customers when they see black models what must really be going on in their psyche do they feel like it works for them are they seeing themselves in the brand and and i think i have to think about that as well because in some instances I could also be saying that I'm not being diverse it's a monopoly isn't it it is so hard like it's so difficult because like going to what you said it's the same thing as South Asian representation is beyond India and it is Pakistan it is Bangladesh it is all these and you know it's like like it's South Asian heritage month and I'd be lying if I you know there's some great stuff lined up but there is a theme that I see South Asian panels but majority of them are from Indian backgrounds that's not diversity so then how do we as a community actually reach what we say around inclusion if you're like brown or black you're not all the same so how can we often celebrate identity and this is exactly what I mean by culture over colour someone said to me we have 10 South Asians working for us but if I go behind the scenes and everyone's from the same background from the same city from the similar boroughs that's not diversity inclusion that's why that whole monopoly is so tiring and I think when I feel like the term culture of a colour speaks so much sense we're not saying don't look and I'm saying yes 100% because visibility is important but the culture also matters because all the cultures are similar but not the same and that even goes for a white counterpart being represented and I've always said look I don't always feel like someone needs to look like me for me I need to be represented. I need to be able to relate to their story. If I saw a working class person from Bradford who grouped around the same area as me, I don't know, stabbing the cover of British Vogue or whatever, I'd be like, yo, that's sick because I relate to that drive. I relate to their story. I relate to where they come from. And this is why it doesn't matter what it is. It's culture of a color, but I also understand the powerful aspect of visible representation. I really love how we're both in a fashion industry, but even when you talk, it's so grounded because I think this is a conversation that really goes beyond fashion. This is important knowledge and info. Thank you so much for being so just broad about it. If we were to bring it down to fashion, I'm going to start with everybody. Arooj Aftab was recognized for her work with Done With Diversity as a new gen entrepreneur and agitator and was featured in vote for business 100 I think that's that's your man thank you you know what is for mine because I'm not that scared to mention it but it's like that reality is still like oh yeah that happened it's like it's crazy thank you so much honestly getting that was crazy because I was just like I got the email and I was like what me what have I done you know and I am my biggest critic I think it's I think your plot like anybody listening to this might understand it when you and I say this again marginalized fighting marginalization nothing ever feels enough so to get something out of that and actually flowers in an aspect is that kind of architecture of flowers because people are acknowledging the work but I don't do it for acknowledgement I need that impact and I feel that however to have a credential like that you'd hope that somebody might take you a bit more seriously being like oh we should listen to this girl in an aspect that's why these credentials and accomplishments matter because it's so of like bittersweet and it's a shame to say but yes it's the hope that you get taken more seriously not that nothing's changed from who you were before that or who you are after that but if we're in an industry in the arts or fashion that thrives on tags and names and who do you know and what have you what have you achieved then it helps you know and there is a sense of elitism and you kind of have to play the game but not compromise your personality or sacrifice who you are so yeah to get that was like crazy and I'm just taking off on breakfast that's wild I know you've soaked in and as entrepreneurs we are our hardest critics so girl I completely understand that and I think I mentioned that because let's pay our dues you've done the work and you've done so many phenomenal things that have started to help shape the landscape of really where we want fashion to go right and so I guess like last question would be what advice would you give to a emerging creators from the global ethnic majority and, you know, the different backgrounds that we've been discussing, trying to break into fashion or influence culture on their own terms? You know what? There's not one advisor, but if we're looking at fashion, it depends how brave you are, but I'd say be a nonconformist. We are in such a different day and age. I don't think this whole thing of like devil wears Prada exists. So it's kind of like being nonconformist, but not deliberately like guns blazing, but the more individual and authentic you are to yourself, the more people will relate to you surprisingly don't be a yes person like there's far too many yes people and it's just boring we need people that challenge things and we need people that actually are brave enough to say things and I think it helps anybody in the industry especially if you're from a background like ours it's like if I say this well I have a backing kind of thing and you need we need the backing so it's kind of like yeah being non-conformist it is always a place for everybody in the industry and I always I always say this as well if I have to bring my own seat to sit at a table then I don't want to be in that room or sit at the table because I can't be bothered with that and I think it's taken me a while to understand that like I started working in the industry when I was 20 something or even younger actually because I was blogging maybe 16 but finally in the industry like 20 something I'm now 29 I'm going to be 30 and It's really strange because people were like, oh, when you reach 30, you don't give an F about anything. I feel like I'm getting to that. I feel like it's kind of like, I now get it. Like you just wake up one day and you're like, you know what? I don't care. But I think that's also because you're more sure about what you do. You're confident about what you do. You're not questioning your worth because you know what you do is good. And my work will always be for the community and for the people and understanding that there is room for everybody. And fashion is universal even for example being from the north of England from the city of Bradford which is known as the wool industry where people from Savile Row used to come up to Bradford to get their material even that level of being like actually we need to decentralise London and London's great but what about the people that contribute to fashion it's not purely about race it's not purely about how we look it's the culture and the upbringings and the experiences we come from that really shape us so yeah if you are you look beyond surface level beyond yourself and actually who are you and what do you bring to the table it's so inspiring to speak to you always like thank you so much for that thank you this has been so cool i feel like i could chat for ages i love that thank you so much so i've got like a quick fire around so um you have to be as quick as you can in trying to answer you Freddie, if you could have coffee with any fashion brand's marketing team, past or present, who would it be? That's a hard one. I don't know what to say. Why have I forgotten everybody's name? Kenya Hunt, Elle magazine. Yes. Nice. I like that. Okay. Two, which brand's rebrand actually slapped? Valseran. Yes. I saw that over the weekend. He did good. Yeah. Really good. Okay. Three, one trend you wish the algorithm would just bury forever? No worries. jeans. Which brand would you let take over your IG stories for a day? Bottega, but they don't have Instagram. That's the beauty of it. Do they not? Oh, that's new. No. There's someone in the marketing team that's running the way. Either one of those. I agree. They're really, really beautiful, crafted brands, right? And I love the new sort of creative directors and design teams that they have. It's authentic. It's amazing. Okay, last one. What's the biggest biggest digital red flag in a fashion campaign? Or as in, wait, I need to get more context on that. As in just a digital campaign, lack of representation and oversight. Of course, that has to be the only argument on that. I don't know why you remember that, but I'm going to find a way back into the theme of this conversation, obviously, the lack of representation. We're in 2025, let's not be tone deaf. Absolutely. Aroj, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for your time and to our audience get ready for the podcast thank you so much for listening bye thank you