Clarence Anthony on The 351 Podcast

Clarence Anthony, NLC CEO & Executive Director, joined his friend, Adam Chapdelaine, CEO of the Massachusetts Municipal Association, on The 351 Podcast, for an engaging conversation about the commitment that local leaders must have in the face of a changing federal partnership, how to stay motivated and inspired in this important work, and the biggest challenges facing cities that we're focusing on today. The 351 Podcast is the official podcast of the Massachusetts Municipal Association and is hosted by John Ouellette.

For more information, visit us at nlc.org.

Transcript

NLC 0:07

Welcome back to another episode of CitySpeak, where we give listeners an insider's view of what local leadership in America means today and features conversations with government leaders and policy experts regarding the biggest issues and challenges facing America's cities, towns, and villages. We're bringing you an engaging conversation with NLC CEO and Executive Director Clarence Anthony, who sat down with his friends at the Massachusetts Municipal Association for their podcast, The 351. It's hosted by MMA Executive Director Adam Chapdlane and MMA Communications Director John Willette. They talk about the commitment that local leaders must have in the face of a changing federal partnership, how to stay motivated and inspired in this important work, and the biggest challenges facing cities that we're focusing on today. They're doing great work up in Massachusetts, and I hope you'll check out their podcast, which really digs in on the municipal government issues and what makes great leaders tick.

Clarence Anthony, CEO & Executive Director, National League of Cities 1:05

The 351 is available wherever you get your podcast, local leadership is still a great example of nonpartisan leadership. They tend to focus on the important issues that are happening in their communities and solving those, not thinking about, you know, a red police department or blue water system. They're not thinking about their party. They're thinking about what is best for their community. When I served for 24 years, you know, politics never came to my front lawn. Politics would never come to me at the grocery store, but problems did.

Adam Chapdelaine, MMA, CEO 2:37

Today's guest has the vantage point of not only seeing up close what is happening in the nation's capital, but also deeply understanding what cities and towns are facing, what hurdles they have to overcome, and what can help them succeed. Municipalities have an incredible diversity across the country, but they also have a lot in common. And no one knows this better than our guest, Clarence Anthony, the Executive Director of the National League of Cities.

John Ouellette, 351 Host 3:08

Not only does Clarence lead the largest and oldest organization representing cities, towns, and villages in the United States, but he previously served as the mayor of South Bay, Florida for 24 years, a job he was elected to at age 24. Clarence, who's devoted his entire career to local government, has led the National League of Cities since 2013. Clarence Anthony, thanks for joining us today.

Clarence Anthony, CEO & Executive Director, National League of Cities 3:35

Good morning, Adam, and good morning, John. Thank you so much for that kind introduction. When you said 24 and 24, I was like, oh man, I gotta be old. So your listeners would say, is that guy still around after doing that? Yes, I am. And it's such a pleasure to be able to have this conversation on your podcast 351. And it's just an honor. So thank you, Adam.

Adam Chapdelaine, MMA, CEO 4:00

Clarence, you know, as we talked about in the intro, there's so much focus on the federal government right now. There's so much uncertainty in Washington. That happens to be where you spend a lot of your time. Where do you think that leaves those who lead cities and towns? And what's the best way that you're focusing your energy in this environment?

Clarence Anthony, CEO & Executive Director, National League of Cities 4:21

We have to stay focused. We are local government. We are the ones that have to balance our budget. We are the ones that have to every day run into our residents and resolve their issues. Now, clearly, in this time of uncertainty at the federal level, I am not spinning this when I say this. But one, there's more opportunity to lead at the local level. You know, we oftentimes expect to have a partner from the federal level to help us deal with infrastructure, to help us deal with the housing issues. But I got to go back to the point that residents in cities, towns, and all communities of all sizes expect their mayor, their city manager, the city council members, their trustees to solve their issues with what is happening in our nation at the federal level. It is more important and more of a responsibility of local leaders to continue to lead on the issues that are important to their residents.

Adam Chapdelaine, MMA, CEO 5:33

You know, I often say, you're a mayor, you're a town manager, you can't hide. They know where to find you. You have to deliver.

Clarence Anthony, CEO & Executive Director, National League of Cities 5:40

In a lot of ways, we have to remember that our members are residents too, and that they're dealing with the same thing as the residents that live in their community. Adam, you're human. You know, when you were a city manager, you were a human, and you are a resident of that community. And I think that sometimes our residents feel as if we're different than they are. No, when the tax bills go up, I have to pay them too. If if there's a pipe that's broken in my neighborhood or in the city, it impacts me too. I am one of you. I do happen to have a title, but man, I feel it just like you feel it.

John Ouellette, 351 Host 6:26

So speaking of focus, Clarence, doing this type of work takes incredible stamina and commitment. As we've mentioned, there are always changes and surprises along the way. And I'm curious about what sustains your passion and energy in this work.

Clarence Anthony, CEO & Executive Director, National League of Cities 6:45

Public policy has been an important part of my personal life. I was growing up in a community that the per capita income was about 13,000, a rural community in Florida. Because when people think of Florida, you know, they always think of sunshine, palm trees, and beaches, but there are some very rural communities. And so as I think about how public policy has dealt with issues of housing in Florida, water quality issue, environmental issues, all of those kinds of things, those were the issues that really helped me to be where I am today. You know, educational opportunities for myself personally. But you know, when I also translate that to our members at the National League of Cities and the members at MMA, I think about the energy that they get because of the issues that they work on. We all know that affordable housing is a major challenge. You know, we know the unhoused is there and the homeless issues. When we walk around our communities, that focus on these kinds of issues and being able to be successful brings me energy because no matter what is going on around us, we know that people rely upon municipal officials and city managers and finance directors. Public works is very important. And of course, public safety. And I'll say this, and I'm not just saying this, I have the best job in America. Adam says that he has the best job in Massachusetts. Okay, he got Massachusetts, but I got the whole country. I can help municipal leaders come up with ideas and solutions to address the issues that they are facing. When I get out of the DMV and I go to visits mayors and elected officials and managers in their cities, they say that this is the best city in now they're saying the world. They still have that energy that they feel that they can resolve the issues of their residents. And for me, waking up every day, being able to hear those kinds of dreams and ideas about how they're gonna resolve infrastructure issues, housing issues, grants and funding and how they're gonna do it, they still have this vision in their eyes that they can solve their residents' issues. And that makes me feel good. And I hope that municipal officials don't allow the national conversations to permeate at too much of a level the things that they do on the ground every day. I get energy from my members and the city leaders.

Adam Chapdelaine, MMA, CEO 9:47

You also lead a team at the National League of Cities that's devoted to this mission. And I'm wondering about how you help them maintain their commitment, their passion in the face of just an onslaught of challenges and changes.

Clarence Anthony, CEO & Executive Director, National League of Cities 10:04

You know, I want to be as transparent and direct as possible. And Adam works with me, and he knows that I'm not just gonna say something just to make your listeners feel good. It's hard. It's a challenging time. You know, I've been in public policy since high school, you know, president student body, that kind of guy, you know. And I always was inspired by bringing a voice to the table of those that I felt didn't have a voice. Whatever it is, I wanted to be a part of something that was going to make an impact. And I'm driven by that notion that it does take a team, it takes a community because one person can't do it. And I got that from my mom. When I was mayor, I would often have dinner with my mom before city council meeting. And I'd go up to city council meeting, and this one night, my mom comes in the back door of the city chambers, and I was like, gosh, what is my mom doing here? I just saw her a few minutes ago. She sits down, and I get to the point where it says, it is time now for public comments. Any member of the public, please address the city commission. You have three minutes. State your name and address for the record. It was like a slow motion movie. She starts to get up. And I'm like, oh my God, what's going on? She said, Good evening, members of the city commission, the mayor, my baby. Good to see you guys. She said, the garbage has not been picked up lately the way it should be. And she goes on about a few other complaints. And I I get to the end. I said, Ma, I just had dinner with you. You didn't tell me all of this. And she said, sometimes you think it's only your responsibility to do the things in the city. It is all of y'all's responsibility as a city commission. And I knew if I told you alone, you'd think that it's up to you only. And I always remember that story. Wow. Because it is not just up to me. It's a team. And as I look at the team that I lead at the National League of Cities, they are passionate, mission-driven. They care about their work. They care about our nation and they care about the community that they live in. And I just encourage them to talk to members, like I talk to members. And that will, again, re-inspire them and help them with their passion. When it comes to the work-life balance and keeping and maintaining so that you don't get burned out, I'm not a good role model for the work-life balance. And I don't want to just sit here and tell listeners that I am. My board, my officers insist that I take a vacation. But I do encourage my team that, you know, you got to be reinspired and you got to get your battery charged. Do not own all of the issues that are going on in terms of public service. And I also tell my members make sure that you don't take on everything by yourself, but also you got to focus on your family and your health and your well-being because you need to be healthy in order to lead. I see the hurt in the eyes of mayors when and city council members, elected officials when people call them mean names or they threaten them on social media. I see it in their eyes that they sometimes want to give up. But you gotta keep your eyes on the prize. And that is helping our cities to be able to prosper and to grow.

John Ouellette, 351 Host 14:10

We look at CNN, we look at MSNBC or Fox or wherever you get your news. And we're always being shown a map of red states and blue states. But in most of the country, local government's nonpartisan. So as you engage with members, you know, as you travel around, what's your sense of the impact of political polarization at the local level?

Clarence Anthony, CEO & Executive Director, National League of Cities 14:33

I think that we are at an important time in our nation. Local leadership is still a great example of nonpartisan leadership. As you indicated, probably 90% of cities or more in America are elected nonpartisan. They tend to focus on the important issues that are happening in their communities and solving those, not thinking about, you know, a red police department or blue water system or, you know, green, hopefully they're thinking green, but they're not thinking about their party. They're thinking about what is best for their community. When I served for 24 years, you know, politics never came to my front lawn. Politics would never come to me at the grocery store, but problems did. You know, your water bill is a problem. Making a decision because you are a Democrat or Republican is a political decision. And I still think every day I get calls about partisanship that is happening in Washington, D.C. And our elected leaders are asking the questions: how do we not get into politics? How do we keep our eyes focused 100% on what is best for our residents? And the thing I try to share with them is that, you know, you are the role model as local officials in your community. And so it's how you respect each other on the dais, how you manage the way in which you communicate to your colleague, how you respect that person. They were elected and hired by the residents in that community the same way you were elected. And when I was mayor, whoever won, I would always say, welcome to the team, because you've been hired by the residents in this community. And you need to know that you're going to be respected, and your vote is your vote, and always keep the residents in mind. Now, I do have to pause and say that in this time, though, when we polled elected officials, 73% of the local leaders and staff said they had experienced some form of harassment, threats, their children had seen bullying on social media. And then, you know, another 20% said that they've come to their front doors and actually attempted to have a conversation with them at their home with their kids there. What we got to remember in this time is that we do have a responsibility to lead in a positive way. We have a responsibility to be civil as local leaders. And I'm totally encouraging everybody to make sure that they recognize that this is an opportunity to serve and that they really be conscious of that. But it's a challenging time. I'm not gonna sit here and say it's not, but we are the local leaders that can make sure that we don't get into the partisan politics.

Adam Chapdelaine, MMA, CEO 18:09

That answer resonated with me so deeply. You know, as you know, having served as a mayor, I served as a town manager. Some of the toughest moments were when someone came to my house and I wasn't home and knocked on the door and tried to talk to my wife about, I'll be honest, a pretty inconsequential issue happening in town. And and, you know, hearing you share those stories made me think about when someone posted online that they were gonna come to my house and throw a brick through the window because of a decision I had made. And I had young kids at home, and you know, I didn't actually think someone was gonna come and throw a brick through the window. That's terrifying.

Clarence Anthony, CEO & Executive Director, National League of Cities 18:49

It is. And I think uh hearing you say that helps municipal leaders as well as your listeners globally to again put a face on this person that they call the city manager or the mayor. You're human. You have family. The things that they do impact you. What makes me nervous, though, Adam, is the impact of people's desire, young people's desire to follow your trail of being a city manager or running for public office. We have seen an increase of people saying, I didn't sign up for this and I'm not running for re-election, especially women leaders who are saying at a higher percentage that they are not continuing. So we have some work to do in our partnership to come up with something or a campaign or some effort that can say it starts with us as municipal officials. It starts with us, you know, modeling this, and it starts with us in terms. Of bringing our communities together.

Adam Chapdelaine, MMA, CEO 20:02

I had the opportunity recently to speak to a class of undergraduate students at Tufts University about local government. Former mayor Joe Curtitoni of Somerville is teaching a class there called the Mayor's Forum, and he asked me to come in and talk. And, you know, I spoke for about 20 minutes, and then I was really overjoyed that there wasn't even enough time for all the questions that the students asked, which gave me hope in the next generation. But one of the students wisely asked me, All right, you left being a town manager. You're doing this work now. Would you go back to being a town manager? And it it stopped me in my tracks. And my my ultimate answer was, yes, I would. I wouldn't do so lightly. I'd have to give it a lot of consideration. And I'm not sure that I would do it immediately, given that I currently have young children that keep me quite busy during during the evening hours, where in Massachusetts, you know, you're you're in town hall, you know, quite a few nights a week. But it was sort of like an unexpected ground-truthing moment of, you know, I'm there to sell them on coming to work in public service. And when they asked me if I would jump back in, you know, I wanted to give an authentic answer and it stopped me for a moment.

Clarence Anthony, CEO & Executive Director, National League of Cities 21:09

Yeah, Adam and John, please don't ask me that question.

Adam Chapdelaine, MMA, CEO 21:13

Right, right, right.

Clarence Anthony, CEO & Executive Director, National League of Cities 21:14

Don't. It is a difficult question given the time. I mean, you know, 1984, it was different than it is now. I chose to come back to my hometown after graduate school to continue to serve. You know, I've been asked that question a couple of times about when you come back home, when you retire, you know, what are you going to do? Would you run for office here? I think the role that we can continue to serve in is that of mentoring and helping others to lead. Because I do think sometimes elected officials get in these roles and they stay 24 years and they needed to step away and get others prepared to lead. I think we have a responsibility for that. Agreed.

John Ouellette, 351 Host 22:10

I'm really excited about this next question because I think your unique perspective can be really helpful in the work that we do and the work that our members do, which is how you would describe the misconceptions or misunderstandings that national-level leaders have about what it takes to keep cities and towns resilient and functional. And what do you say in those conversations to address those misconceptions?

Clarence Anthony, CEO & Executive Director, National League of Cities 22:40

Again, it doesn't matter the administration. Our job, Adam, as you know, is to represent cities, towns, and communities. That's my partisan. People ask me, are you partisan? Yeah, to cities, towns, and communities. I wake up every day focused on that one thing and whatever happens in our nation, how it impacts my advocacy focus. A lot of the national leaders that I speak with don't understand that our elected officials and staff are in communities every day. We have to tell the stories of how lack of infrastructure dollars on our water and wastewater system impacts the health and quality of living in communities. We have to give the stories to those national leaders. They need to understand and hear about the emerging issues that our cities need a partner from at the federal level. We know that there is an issue around our road systems, our water systems. We know that we have an issue around housing. We know that AI is becoming one of the things that we need to tackle. Well, do we need to do that city by city? Or at some times we need a partner to help us address those issues. And I think that, you know, sometimes the local leaders are blamed, and the blame is shift to our municipal leaders. And I think that that's unfair because at the end of the day, every year we have to balance our budget. We don't print it, we don't make it up, we don't get all kinds of other ways to get our money. We have to get the tax dollars that are created from our revenue produced. And we make it happen. We also have to plan. You know, we know what we want our community to look like. And each community has a vision for their community that is different. You know, they may want high density, you want low density, you want to be able to create more parks. It's the way in which we lead as individual cities. So you're developing national policy, you'll create national policy that says cities, towns, but we need to make sure they understand that each city is different and the challenges are different. We need to recognize that we were elected by the people just like they were elected. I remember my first time meeting a congressional member or a president of the United States when I was mayor. I couldn't even find my voice for a few minutes. I was like, oh my gosh. And, you know, we took pictures. And then the congressional member said, All right, thank you guys for coming. Well, we had spent our time with the member 15 minutes just talking social and taking pictures. Now I encourage our members, go in there, you got your talking points, you got the stories, take your selfie in two minutes and sit down and go to work. You need to tell the stories about what you need from Congress and the White House, whatever administration it is, because you have to come back home to those residents and answer what did you do in Washington, D.C. Your answer will not be talking about the Patriots in the good old days when they used to win footballs. But anyway, who speak truth. You know, but you know, it really is about making them understand what you do in your role and how do you use the partnership dollars to make communities better?

John Ouellette, 351 Host 26:51

Absolutely. And that that's that's an ongoing conversation, obviously, and and one that's important to engage in. And I kind of want to look at the other side as well and ask you to talk about innovation and adaptation at the local level and problem solving that can and does take place regardless of action at a higher level of government.

Clarence Anthony, CEO & Executive Director, National League of Cities 27:18

I think that during this time of uncertainty, more expectation is going to come to the local level, Adam. We're gonna need to be more creative. And my team held me back from saying this at our conference last year in Tampa because so much was changing. But I gotta start saying this because it's accurate. There's more coming to you, mayors and city managers and city councils. There's more expectation for you to be innovative and you know look at your budget in a way that you've never had to do for at least the last decade or so. I think we were sort of spoiled because we did have partnership with Obama, with the President Trump, the first President Trump, with the Biden administration with bipartisan infrastructure. We worked with every one of those groups. Now it's a little different. Those grants that we got, some of them are being slowed down or pulled back. And we have to acknowledge that and figure out now what do we do? And what we do is look at the resources we have, the financing tools, whether it's revenue bonds, community bonds, tax exempt bonds, or some other way, while also asking our federal partners to come and participate with us to solve these issues. What I don't want to leave here in saying that you should just pause and wait for the federal government to come in. We have to lead. We have to solve those issues ourselves and keep moving. But don't stop talking and advocating with your congressional members and senators and the White House.

Adam Chapdelaine, MMA, CEO 29:15

You kind of have to do both, right?

Clarence Anthony, CEO & Executive Director, National League of Cities 29:17

Oh, you have to, because the residents, they're not gonna fly to Washington, D.C. to protest that the issues are being solved. They're gonna come to City Hall. They're gonna come to your town hall, and they're gonna ask, what are you doing?

Adam Chapdelaine, MMA, CEO 29:36

Clarence, you've had a couple themes throughout. I mean, one being we're all human. But with this last answer and some of your previous comments, it starts with us.

Clarence Anthony, CEO & Executive Director, National League of Cities 29:46

It does. Right at the local level. I know that that's a heavy statement.

John Ouellette, 351 Host 29:51

Yeah.

Clarence Anthony, CEO & Executive Director, National League of Cities 29:52

But when you raised your hand to say, hey, I'm gonna run for public office, you maybe didn't know that all of this responsibility was going to be on your shoulders. And the issues that you were gonna be dealing with is more than what you ran on. And that was to put a red light in one intersection. But with that said, when I got in office, the first thing I did is recognize I needed training and education. And I went to the Florida League of Cities. And so I'm hoping that our listeners will go to MMA and go to the conferences, take the training courses, do the webinars, because you're going to learn something that's going to make you a better leader. And our residents deserve that.

Adam Chapdelaine, MMA, CEO 30:45

If you could snap your fingers and solve any problem facing your members, cities, towns, villages, what would it be?

Clarence Anthony, CEO & Executive Director, National League of Cities 30:53

Oh man. Of course, I'm a housing guy. You know, my degree is in urban planning, and housing is so essential to making someone feel the place they live in is just not a city. It's their home. Yeah. My heart is hurting right now because of all of the divide that we're seeing in our country. I'm astonished and shocked when I wake up and see people in churches and kids and school are being attacked. I never imagined that. I love our country. And there are people who are so cynical right now. And so when I say that, it just surprises people that I still believe so strongly in what we do as elected leaders. They're astonished when I still believe that local government is the best level of government and that we still can solve every problem that we have. And so if I could snap my fingers, I would focus on and hope that when I close my eyes and snap my fingers and open my eyes, that we get back to work on the issues that are important to people in America. I see a time where we could have a great debate. I love a good debate, and then we vote, and then we move on to the next item on the city commission agenda. I would love that I could go to a town hall meeting where I ask everybody their opinion, and they may differ than mine, but we still are neighbors. And I could snap and then open my eyes and see municipal leaders leading with joy. I want to do something as an individual, as CEO of the National League of Cities to help us get there. But I know that I'm at the national level in Washington, D.C. I'm going to need MMA, I'm going to need all the state municipal leagues around America to get that started. Because if we don't, some of the partisanship at the national level will seep down into the local level. And right now, we still are the level that our residents respect and trust at a higher level than any other level of government.

John Ouellette, 351 Host 33:32

I mean, if I could bottle that answer and distribute it across the nation, I would.

Clarence Anthony, CEO & Executive Director, National League of Cities 33:37

Let's work on that, man, because I think that a lot of folks have anxiety. They're just saying, where are we as communities or a nation? We're on the front lines of all of these issues. And therefore, if we're on the front lines, we have to hold our congressional members, our senators, everybody, the administration accountable for being able to all have this opportunity to snap their finger and say, let's work on this together and we can see a better day. My authentic answer is I struggle with us and where we are right now. And we got to get to work.

Adam Chapdelaine, MMA, CEO 34:25

So we're going to shift gears a little bit. Um, we'd like to end every episode with this question. What gives you hope right now about cities and towns?

Clarence Anthony, CEO & Executive Director, National League of Cities 34:34

You know, what gives me hope, and I started talking about that at the beginning in a way. Last year, National League of Cities celebrated 100 years of being an association representing cities in America. In DC, you know, best practices, our conferences, it are ways that we help people to learn. And we had this concept called a road show. And Adam remembers that we were committing to visiting 100 cities in an RV around America. Sounds fascinating. Would never do that again. Never do it again. That was a lot of work. That's ambitious. But we did it. And what gives me hope was the fact that I would be on that RV and I would drive up to city halls throughout America. And there would be like 50 community people there just like screaming and saying, Oh my God, welcome to my city. Oh, this is so great to have you here. Oh, we want to show you this. You know, it was just like just inspirational. And I hope everybody in other states don't hear this, but they would show us a community center that they thought it was the best community center ever. And I'm sitting there rolling my eyes, like, yeah, it's a community center, just like every other community center. However, to them, it was the biggest thing ever. They walk us downtown and they'd show where they had, you know, flags that had the name of the city on a light pole, and they'd say, You see this? We got these flags with our city emblem on it. And I was like, It's a light pole with the flag on it. But they were inspired. So even though we're in this time that we're in, I still believe in local leadership. I still believe that we have people that raise their hand to say, I want to serve my community, and that they're doing it in a sincere, authentic, transparent way. They're doing it with their head and their hearts. And that makes me really excited about what I do every day. I know we got to utilize AI. We got to figure out that part. And we will, as city officials, I know that we got housing issues, but I know our city officials will buckle in with their staff and they'll design opportunities to accelerate housing in their communities. I know that they're concerned about workforce. And we will work with universities and community colleges to find out how we can create jobs for now and the future. So am I excited? The answer is yes. Am I optimistic? The answer is yes. Do I believe that we can solve these issues? Yes. We gotta wake up every day inspired, or we gotta find others that come in and take our places that inspire because we got so much to do.

John Ouellette, 351 Host 38:11

Well, Clarence, you you really brought the conversation full circle. We've so enjoyed talking with you. So, Clarence Anthony, Executive Director of the National League of Cities, thank you so much for joining us.

Clarence Anthony, CEO & Executive Director, National League of Cities 38:24

Well, thank you guys so much, and I appreciate this. This I know you had millions of people, and the fact that you asked me to do that really does mean a lot. I don't take it for granted. So, 351, let's go. Let's keep doing it and keep leading in your state. And I want to be a partner with you guys. So thank you, Adam. Thank you, John.

NLC 38:54

Thanks for listening to City Speak with Clarence Anthony. If you like the show, let us know. Share this episode with your friends, and make sure to subscribe. We're curious to hear what you think, what you want more of, and how we can improve. If you have feedback or an idea for a guest you'd like Clarence to sit down with, send us your thoughts at Cityspeak Podcast at nlc.org. Join us next month for a new episode. Like and subscribe here or wherever you get your podcast. See you next time.