Reimagining Local Government, Democracy and Trust with Julia Novak, CEO, ICMA

Julia Novak, CEO & Executive Director of ICMA, the International City/County Management Association, brings together city and county managers, the people who get the work done alongside mayors and councilmembers. Which is why NLC’s partnership is so important, as we all put residents' needs first. She oversees all aspects of ICMA, including membership, staff, and implementation of the executive board’s strategic objectives. With extensive experience in local government, Julia has served as both a city manager and a deputy city manager.

For more information, visit us at nlc.org.

Transcript

Clarence Anthony, CEO & Executive Director, National League of Cities 0:08

Welcome back to another episode of Citiespeak. I am your host, Clarence Anthony, CEO and Executive Director of the National League of Cities. Citiespeak gives listeners an insider's view of what local leadership in America means today and features conversations with government leaders and policy experts regarding the biggest issues and challenges facing America's cities, towns, and villages. Today I have the honor and privilege of sitting down face to face with my guests at the Democracy and Public Trust Conference in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. The conference is hosted by our partner, ICMA, the International City County Management Association. And my guest is a longtime friend, colleague, CEO, and executive director of ICMA, Julia Novak. The mission of the International City County Managers Association is to bring together city and county managers, the people who get the work done alongside our elected officials, which is why our partnership is so important as we all represent the same people, the residents of those communities on the local level. Julia has extensive experience being a city, former city manager, strategic planner, consultant, assistant city manager. And I must tell you that I am so glad to have her in this role as a partner because we're friends, and I like when I see her and I we smile and we talk. So today we're just gonna have a conversation between two friends in a space and in a moment that this network is so important between elected officials and city and county officials. Welcome to Cityspeak, Julia.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

Thanks, Clarence. Really appreciate the opportunity to be with you.

Clarence Anthony, CEO & Executive Director, National League of Cities 2:28

Well, it it is a real important time. Um but I first want to start with this question of your why. Why is public service and why has public service been so important to you?

SPEAKER_01 2:43

The truth is, um apparently not very creative. I never imagined doing anything else but public service. Um I grew up um in outside of the Washington, D.C. area. My father worked for the federal government for over 40 years. He was a charter member of the senior executive service, and public service was who we who we were as a family. Um, and it's what I knew as something that was worth doing when you were away from home. And when we were home together, we were doing sports and girl scouts and all the things that you do to be part of a community. Um, and so being part of a community and helping make a difference in communities was just something I was built for.

Clarence Anthony, CEO & Executive Director, National League of Cities 3:25

And your first uh public sector job was what?

SPEAKER_01 3:30

So um uh the the I've got a good little story about this. The the story is um when I was in college at George Mason University in Fairfax, I worked at the cafeteria in the Massey building, which has now been destroyed. It was this 13-story brutalist architecture building in downtown Fairfax City. And every day I made, you know, coffee and breakfast and lunch for different people and had worked there for several years, and uh, and a person said, you know, what are you gonna do with your it was a little different from the other people that worked at the cafeteria? And uh they, what are you gonna do? And I was like, Oh, I'm you know, I'm majoring in government and politics. And and they said, Well, you need to talk to Ted Austell because he hires interns. And so one day in my cafeteria whites, I had an envelope with my resume, and I walked, was gonna take it up to the 13th floor to Mr. Austell, and he was getting off the elevator when I was getting on. Oh wow, and I I handed him the envelope and I said, Mr. Austell, this is for you. And he said, What is this? You know, like cafeteria business. And I said, Oh no, I heard you hire an interns and it's my resume. He took me on a floor-by-floor tour of the Massey building right then and there, in my cafeteria whites, and told me whatever department I wanted to work in, I could work in. And whatever I was making for Marriott in the cafeteria, he would double it. I think I made $410 an hour, so it was this was big money. So my first experience was first and foremost um someone who took an interest in someone that was uh willing to open literally any door in the building. And I didn't know anything about computers, so I picked the Office of Research and Statistics in Fairfax County, Virginia. That was my first job.

Clarence Anthony, CEO & Executive Director, National League of Cities 5:12

Oh, that is great. And you know, and of course, that knowledge and skill that you selected is something that you're carrying no matter where you go, research, technology, and all of those areas. But one of the interesting things, uh, and I want to ask about your leadership style, how did sports and how does sports play a role in your leadership style? Now, this this is a question she wasn't ready for. It's not on a list, but it's not on a list, but I've gotten to know Julia enough that I it intrigues me and how it has played a role in your style.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

I I've come to explain my style by telling people that I show up as the fast pitch pitcher. That's how I you you walk to the mound, you take control of the game the minute you walk on the field. And I've it took me a long time to realize, because people would say things to me like, you're intimidating, or this or that. I'm like, who are you talking about? Like you met me, like I'm about the nicest person you know. Um and but it is kind of how you show up is you show up prepared, you show up confident, you show up determined, and you throw strikes, and everybody behind you does their job, and that's how you win. It takes everybody doing their job to execute because I can throw strikes all day, but if somebody can't field a ground ball, somebody can't field a pop-up, somebody can't make a throw, it doesn't matter.

Clarence Anthony, CEO & Executive Director, National League of Cities 6:47

Oh man, that's a good uh thought to carry on because I think do think sometimes as leaders um we think it's all about us, maybe, and that we can do it all. But you know, I'm known to come up with ideas, and then I look at my team and say, okay, uh, can we do this? And are you committed to this? And I think that's a a good uh role model. Um all right, so ICMA.

SPEAKER_01 7:16

ICMA is the International City County Management Association. And that and I I wanted to just amplify that a little bit. In 1969, there was an intentional decision to change our name because we were started by city managers in 1914, and then in 1924 we became international. Later in the 80s, we became city-county. But it was in 69 that we became management in recognition that this is the umbrella for the generalists in our local government communities, the budget analyst, the management analyst, the people in the public works department that don't, they're not the engineer, they're not the planner. This is the place where we teach the leadership skills to become city managers if that's what you're interested in. But as a profession, it is much broader than that, and that's why we have 14,000 members, because there's not that many city managers. But it is because of that broad tent and the interest in preparing people for careers throughout local government on the administrative side. We need you all with the great elected officials, and you know that you need the bureaucrats to get it done at every level and in every department. So I just wanted to mention that because I think it's important as people think about who is ICMA, they recognize that it's it's more than just the position. It really is about the profession and about professional local government at any form.

Clarence Anthony, CEO & Executive Director, National League of Cities 8:39

No, I think I think that is so important that we highlight that uh because to me there's such a connection uh between ICMA and NLC and other public sector uh organizations because we are the group that really represents those public officials, and we really need that connection to our management side of our organization. And I'm um I I know I'm making a commitment uh to work more intentionally so that we can align those two, and I think you are as well.

SPEAKER_01 9:17

Well, the the partnership is important, the partnership between NLC and ICMA, but also the partnership models what is necessary in our local communities. I learned long ago what gets done in our local through our local governments lives at the intersection of political acceptability, so what there is the will to do, and administrative sustainability, what there is the capacity to accomplish. And we have to work together to understand what we want to do and what we can do and how to make it all happen. And so you and I have the ability to model the partnership that our communities need, regardless of the underlying form of government. And that's why it to me the partnership is important, the relationship is important, and it's why I'm so glad to be sitting with you today.

Clarence Anthony, CEO & Executive Director, National League of Cities 10:05

Well, I'm glad to have you as a partner. You know, a lot of times in in the states we only think about what is happening in North America as our example of network. That international piece of your title of ICMA is something that I know I'm working on at the National League of Cities. Tell me why that is important uh to have uh ICMA as an international uh organization with partners throughout the world. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

So, you know, originally um the when when ICMA became international, it happened in Montreal at a collection of a gathering of the city managers who also happened to be um from Canada, where they had a similar form of government. And as ICMA has really expanded its understanding of our mission, both to support our members and to advocate for the form of government that they have dedicated their careers to, I think what we have recognized is that professionalism in local government builds better communities. And the United States does not have the model, the monopoly on that. The United States has a model, but it is also exists in other places and in other contexts. And when we were just in Ireland with a study tour, um, we went to places where they were uh re regenerating, which is kind of what we would call reuse or redevelopment, um, peat fields. We don't we don't have peat fields in the United States where peat was turned into energy and created a very dirty energy that impacted air quality and workers who weren't necessarily trained to do anything else. But we had coal mines. You know, there is there are parallels to the work. Contextually it's a little bit different, and maybe ours is coal and theirs in peat, but we can learn from one another, and there's some great models out there if we're willing to think that we here in the US don't have all the answers.

Clarence Anthony, CEO & Executive Director, National League of Cities 12:08

Yeah, I've always had that philosophy that um great public policy as well as programs um just don't happen in your geographic city. It could be a better program that is in another community, even in the states. But imagine being able uh to go to other parts of the world and see how they deal with workforce issues, housing issues, technology issues, and then bringing that back and sharing that. I really um applaud you guys for recognizing that and sharing the skills that we have here with others uh in other parts of the world.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

When you go to Johannesburg and you sit in their city council chambers and you look around and they have over 200 seats. Imagine that. Imagine that. That nest is not more than 200 elected officials may not be the model, but you can certainly learn contextually from what's happening.

Clarence Anthony, CEO & Executive Director, National League of Cities 13:10

Yeah, I could see you back in the day, the five or seven that you had compared to the 200 as a city manager. You're like, okay, I think I'm happy with my model a little bit more. Um We're here in Philadelphia uh at ICMA's Local Government Reimagined Conference on Democracy and the Public Trust. And we know that trust is earned. Uh a few research uh polls showed that Americans trust local government the most. Uh we get the 61% positive um view from our residents, and for federal government, the number falls all the way down to 22%. Um tell me why this data is important, one, but tell me what will we do here for the next three days that we use this opportunity of trust that we have to share beyond uh this conference.

SPEAKER_01 14:13

Yeah. Um one of my favorite lines is from uh Jim Belasco, who uh wrote uh the book is Flight of the Buffalo. The line is success is the enemy. What gets you here won't keep you here. And I think that Pew data is a great example of that because we can talk about how much better we are than the federal government and the state government all day long, but we should cry when we peek back at the data from 30 years ago when the federal government was at 60% and we were above 90%. And that is why this conference is so important. Trust is, um, as my former my predecessor Bob O'Neill said, trust becomes the working capital of the innovation necessary to do the hard work in our communities. So we have to build it. And we build it through transparency and we build it through accountability, and we do it in relationship in those communities. So contextually, what we hope we accomplish at this conference is to connect this idea that's working here with your context in your community and help people try new things that will build the trust. But it has to be grounded in the willingness to be accountable to the public, the desire to serve people, and to be transparent about how government is operating. And sometimes people don't like what they see. And so the the issue of incivility, which you talk about and you have your dignity pledge, um it is so foundational to that. There was a quote that I recall from a study about incivility, that apathy is the real enemy of democracy, and nothing builds apathy more than incivility because people turn it off and they look away. And when they disengage, we no longer have what really is critical to the vite to the to the vital community. So we have to model the proper civility so that people will re-engage in productive ways and allow us to be accountable to them for the services they need in their local communities.

Clarence Anthony, CEO & Executive Director, National League of Cities 16:27

What um we're we're seeing, and and I agree with you 100%, we're seeing um the incivility, the lack of dignity, lack of respect uh in the public sector uh realm and its impact. Um elected officials are saying, I'm out of here. I didn't sign up for this. Elected officials are s are seeing their families being um bullied in social media. What about on the management side? What impact are you seeing?

SPEAKER_01 16:58

Similar. I mean, I I've I had been counseling managers who had these hate groups showing up, um escorting them from their home where they first drop their children off at school all the way to City Hall, just shouting obscenities, videotaping only certain parts of their bodies to use later in clips. I mean, just horrendous behavior that people are being subjected to. And we scratch our heads and wonder why people don't want to enter public service. We we have to be, is your line, the democracy we want to have. We have to be the community we want to have. If that's what we expect people to tolerate, then who will do this work? And so we really need to change the tone and the tenor that's out there and stand up for what's acceptable and what is not. I mean, my mother taught me to stand up to bullies. And we stopped doing that at some point, and we need to do that on the public dais.

Clarence Anthony, CEO & Executive Director, National League of Cities 17:58

Well, my team at the National League of Cities may uh squirm when I say this, but we need to do this together. It won't work unless we do. Let's do this, let's make that pledge. If one thing um is an outcome of uh Citiespeak today, I am sincere uh because I'm seeing some of the greatest talent leave public service. I'm seeing more women being impacted and saying, again, I'm out of here because it's really impacting um my my family, my community, uh, and um I'm I'm really passionate about dignity and respect and public service. You know, this year we're also celebrating uh 250 years um of America democracy. And I want to talk to you about uh what do you see for the future around uh beyond this year of 250 years as it relates to um public service, uh we're seeing polarization. What does democracy and local engagement look like to you?

SPEAKER_01 19:09

It it really is standing up and and reminding ourselves that democracy is ours because we decided it's how we want to work together, so we have to decide to work together. And so I think if you look at the history of our country, we've gone through ups and downs. We have we've had, as uh Dr. Proteo just reminded us in a session, we had a civil war. Um and at the end, we always decide to be better than that last chapter. And so if we don't like the chapter we're in right now as we turn the page on 250, then we have to commit to making a better chapter for the next decade and so on.

Clarence Anthony, CEO & Executive Director, National League of Cities 19:49

Yeah, I I do agree with that, and I've watched um you know us celebrate this time, um, recognizing the I see the impact that we have had as local leaders, um, our management partners, our elected officials, and uh I feel really good about what we've done to make America the place it is and what we can continue to do. But I I'm I'm now saying more and more, we have to step up and own that we were a part of this and this federalistic system that we have, it would not be the country we have without local leadership and community engagement. So I'm excited about what you're lifting up this year and how we're partnering.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

Yeah. Um, amen.

Clarence Anthony, CEO & Executive Director, National League of Cities 20:45

So um talking about federalism, uh a couple of weeks ago. Everybody turn the volume up, turn the volume up. It is this is very important, and I I have conversations with people and I start talking about the federalism model, and I'm looking at their reaction, and sometimes I'm like they're gonna fall asleep.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

Or they're googling it.

Clarence Anthony, CEO & Executive Director, National League of Cities 21:06

They're googling. But you know what I found yesterday at uh a conversation with our state municipal league executive directors, they started responding. They started asking questions, and what are we gonna do? Um, and then they start talking about past precedents and how uh federalism showed up with local leaders. So it's a thing, and I think it's very important. But we have this organization that Julia and I are part of called the Big Seven, the state and local uh national association that represents governors, state reps, senators, uh council members, mayor, city management profession, uh, and counties. Um and part of what we wanted to do is bring all of our principals. Together and we did so in Oklahoma City late in April. I found it very, very uh in a very important meeting. Uh what what are your takeaways from that meeting uh and for the future of disengagement?

SPEAKER_01 22:16

You know, federalism uh at a certain level is a recognition that you need someone else in order to be successful, and so the dual sovereignty of the federal and state governments has existed since our constitution was was imagined, and implementation has always been from the state governments to the locals. And so here we are sitting at this table with our state colleagues, um, reminding ourselves that we need federalism to work all the way from the federal to the state to the local. And so I think what we have committed to do is rebuilding that relationship from the bottom up. We know that our state government partners need our local governments in order to accomplish the things that they need to do for our society. That's why we're here. And so as we develop these principles to work how we will work together and what shared principles of federalism that we have, then we begin to create a foundation for those things we can agree upon to go to the federal government and also remind them of the importance of dual sovereignty and how this country is designed to work. And so understanding the lanes that we operate in, respecting the people who drive in the other lanes, and talking about how we will work together to all get there safely is something we need to do as a for our country, and that's why it matters to those of us in the big seven, and ultimately, I think it really will make a difference.

Clarence Anthony, CEO & Executive Director, National League of Cities 23:47

Yeah, I I think that well, I agree with that, and I also believe that making sure that we um recognize what we can achieve together, um, being a model for our state associations to show that if we can set a table, if you will, for the big seven at the national level, I encourage you to try to sit create that same table uh at the state level. And so I'm I'm really talking about that a lot more. So we're in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Yesterday we were welcomed by Mayor Parker, who really challenged us um to own who we are and own our role in America. So what what in Philly uh before you leave the next couple of days that you uh look forward to visiting or seeing or hearing um as we celebrate this 250 years?

SPEAKER_01 24:54

There is no more beautiful City Hall than Philadelphia City Hall. I mean, it is absolutely spectacular. I have a uh book on my and you know, one of those coffee table books, and it's of city halls. Total nerd. Um but the Philadelphia one is the most beautiful, and my daughter went to college in Philadelphia, and so I uh many pictures in front of Philadelphia City Hall. Day and a night picture will be obligatory.

Clarence Anthony, CEO & Executive Director, National League of Cities 25:20

Oh wow. Well, see, um I'm an old-time uh CEO and former mayor, so when somebody asked me uh what's my favorite city, I said, all of my cities are my favorite cities. You're a politician, too. Am I? I did not even recognize that. You know, it has just been such an honor to talk with you, and it's so comfortable being able to have this conversation. And I want to thank Julia Novak, um, the CEO and executive director of the International City Management Association for being here today because this alignment um on behalf of the movement of public service at the local level is very important. So thanks for taking time uh to be here today. And um, you have an incredible organization, you know that you have a great experience, and ICMA is so lucky to have you as their CEO. So, again, uh I appreciate the partnership and I look forward to working with you uh in the future. So you all heard an amazing conversation here today. If you're interested in ICMA, um reach out and get engaged. If you're not, and if you're interested in National League of Cities and this partnership, please reach out to us as well because we are in this time and it's an important time for local government.

NLC 26:56

Thanks for listening to Citi Speak with Clarence Anthony. If you like the show, let us know. Share this episode with your friends, and make sure to subscribe. We're curious to hear what you think, what you want more of, and how we can improve. If you have feedback or an idea for a guest you'd like Clarence to sit down with, send us your thoughts at Cityspeak Podcast at nlc.org. Join us next month for a new episode. Like and subscribe here or wherever you get your podcast. See you next time.